MAX MODS-BOSS 302 vs DZ302 pt2
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- čas přidán 18. 05. 2020
- FULL MODS & FULL RESULTS. MODIFIED BOSS 302 vs MODIFIED DZ302. Back in part 1, we compared stock Ford Boss 302 to Stock Chevy DZ302. Here in pt 2, we see how well each responds to some major modifications, like a big roller cam, aluminum heads and high-rise intake. We even subjected the Boss to a simple cam upgrade before going hog wild!
- Auta a dopravní prostředky
People are arguing over Ford Vs. Chevy. I'm still in awe that these 300 cube motors are putting out over 500 Horsepower N.A.!
The high compression v8's are no joke. The poor performance didn't come in till they tried to force the poor things to meet the new mileage and smog requirements.
You've been asleep for 20 years?
Me too for that matter and I like both makes.
Do they make 500 hp? And at what cost. Having a shitty idle. Poor vacuum. Running hot. You can't use 500 hp anyway.
@@dukeallen432 Speak for yourself
Awesome job !!! Tunnel ram on the ford should have been worth around another 20 hp . Both ripping little buggers ! But i will always take the blue oval . 😀
Definitely, and I would have kept the factory heads as well
@@wayne8498 I've seen those factory clevo heads support 600 hp, it was on a 351 and we did light porting mainly to smooth up the casting flash but yeah, them clevland heads are pretty good if you can't afford aluminum
Those BOSS heads were no joke.....I would have loved to see what the stock heads would have done.....
Good to hear, excellent work for the mechanics trade after the Ford blows up in half the time the GM does 😎
GM burns alittle oil from day 1 making great business for the Oil trades 😎🇺🇸
When you wanna go fullbore insane power, the entire world turns to the Big 3 here in America. Look at GMs new big block running OVER 1000hp Naturally aspirated LOL!!! what in the FCK hey 🇺🇸
Yes, you can get the F.O.R.D. sound, too.
This is a refreshing change from the power nation guys. They'll put aluminum heads, a big bumpy cam, a 6-71, and 200 shot of n.o.s. to the Chevy. But to even things up they'll put a k&n air filter on the ford, then send them both to dyno for a shootout.
Morgan2373; You noticed that too.
i like your perspective. hot rod magazine back in the 70's onward used a somewhat similar approach.
@arborcidal maniac; This was not a shootout between Chevy and Ford. With the air flow of either the CHI or the stock Boss heads the DZ engine would not stand a chance. Horsepower is just what ever engine has the best air flow. The Cleveland style head has been the one to beat, especially on a 4 inch bore.
Did anyone see the windsor vs Cleveland shoot out they did? They made the Windsor a clevor! Bahahaha. How do they do it with a straight face. It's like the turbo encabulator, if anyone watched that (lol) but at least that's supposed to be funny.
@@bigboreracing356 because the power nation guys built a 600 hp SBC and put it up again a 2v 302 missing 3 spark plug wires they "misplaced?"
Aussie Aussie Aussie OI Oi OI CHI 3V Clevo heads rule.
3v? It’s either 2 or 4
I enjoy how Aussies talk. They have improved the English language.
@@downhilldaddy9346 or a aftermarket set somewhere in-between hence a 3v
Julius Graham it’s news to me. But I learned something new today
@@downhilldaddy9346
Your dad is your uncle
Hardest working man on CZcams. Thanks Richard . would love to see a big caddy build. Or a max wedge . or strait 6 turbos, Flat head turbo always wanted to see a turbo flat head
A lot of people don't know that Pontiac made a 303ci race motor for the Trans Am series. Love to see a feature on that.
The boss 302 had some exotic induction for the era. Thanks for the test.
I restored a 68 Z28 lemans blue with white stripes last winter built a balanced and blue printed 302 with full roller set up, billet rods, forged crank, brodix dragon slayer heads 2.08 intake valves 12:1 compression 1 7/8 long tube headers running on race fuel. She screams all my buddys said I should have built a big block until they ride in it. Its no joke pulls hard up to 8,000 rpms.
Love your work Richard. I grew up with these cars and got to drive them all. I would like to see the Smokey ram with the Z/28 off road design 2 cam to see what that produced. We ran all these setups back in the day but only had butt dyno’s for testing. LOL would also like to see some AMC testing. Thanks again Richard. Also a little Buick GN testing would be nice.
I bet you got stories for days
Those AFR heads really woke the Chevy up,I've used them on both Chevrolet and Ford small block engines with great results.
Thank you Richard, these last two video's have been really great. I agree completely that the bore and stroke are the same, so if you can feed them the same, they will make the same power. Ford or chevy, doesn't matter. Besides the real differences start showing up when you start twisting them up a bit tighter. Cams start twisting around and core size becomes a problem, valve train issues start becoming a real problem, spark jumping around with the cam harmonics, etc.....but I am sure you know all this. Heck, you probably did it in your sleep. Anyway Thank You for sharing all this knowledge. Invaluable
Love the power from a couple of 302s! Tunnel rams, 900+cfm, large port/high cfm heads, big cam, 1 7/8" headers....all wrong for this small displacement-myth busted! I recall visiting my first speed shop (40yrs ago), wanting to buy some wild speed parts for my SBF and being schooled that my wish list was all wrong! The gentleman behind the counter took me under his wing and helped me build a strong street engine-600 vacuum cfm carb, dual plane intake, mild torque cam, and 1 5/8" headers. I was happy with the mild combo, however my dream wild combo would have been a lot more fun! Thank you Richard.
He built you a good street setup, these you would not want to daily drive or that far. The power band in these engines is higher both rpm and hp. Most people dont shift a daily shift at 7k.....most lol
I recall reading that the Boss 302 race motors made around 460 HP while the DZ 302 made a little less. The Cameros made their advantage with better braking. For the street, the factories detuned both motors then fudged the horsepower ratings. Camero and Mustang owners probably got better street drivability and performance with 350 and 351s respectively. I think you offered the most unbiased comparison I’ve seen. I recall one magazine back in the 80s doing a build “comparison” of an 82 Mustang vs 82 Camero. The writers were so biased for the Chevy they claimed that building a Ford 302 for power was a great mystery, and had to resort to treating it like a SBC. Seems like the end result of the comparison was that the Ford wouldn’t run right, and the 305 threw a rod...
Besides that in 1969 the biggest difference was their bottom end torque. The Chevy was quicker outta the corner but the Ford was faster down the straight. In 1970 Ford had manage to get their torque improved to be more competitive.
Really like your honest comparisons. It comes down to knowledge of so many aspects, research, time, effort, facilitys, and of course money. Leave the money aspect out and your work shows realistic expectations for the enthusiast. Of course it comes down to the tech. , the chassis set up and driver and any given day. Keep up the great work.
I'm an Aussie who used a set of our 2v 302 cube Cleveland heads that didn't get offered as an optional set in the US .I was given a set of stainless 4v valves out of my mates 4v solid nitrous injected 1972 Q code 351 cleveland.these valves were heavily worn on the seats and thus needed some grinding to be usable.the final sizes ended up being exactly half way between 2 and 4 v sizes , so I called them 3 v valves , with them and the stock pistons reversed with notches to the rear resulted in an early piston dwell.this results in downward piston motion at 2 degrees before TDC. The quench chamber of 57 cc on a 351 cube Cleveland gave me compression in the 12 s , with the early dwell any pinging occurs at about 1 degree before and thus results in a healthy boost to combustion pressure without any reduction in durability .
This is the stuff I love to see, old school engines, just like they used to run them back in the day, then upgrade them with up-to-date bolt ons!!!! This is a the best engine channel available. Thanks so much Richard, you da man!!!!!
Great test! Two thoughts:
1). I am as very surprised that the Boss 302 only picked up ~25 HP with a better cam and the stock Cleveland heads. Knowing how under cammed the Boss 302 was from the factory, I really thought that a cam swap would have picked up a lot more.
2). The power numbers with the filly modded Boss 302 shows why the Aussies love the Cleveland and how we US performance consumers we’re screwed by Ford when they picked the Windsor engine over the Cleveland. Imagine what a built stroker Cleveland with say 408 ci will do! Have to believe 600+ HP on pump gas would be piece of cake. What a fun engine THAT would be in a classic ‘stang!
Clevelands produce over 300,cfm easily poo up pistons never lost a race
Your right but the smalll cfm only goes so far i like reving small blocks vs big blocks on RPMs
I"m glad you took two different routes on these engines as I grow weary of the Ford vs. Chevy bullshit. They are what they are and both can be made to really run hard. I've played a great deal with both.
I took a ride in a 60s mustang with a built 302. The holeshot blurred my vision. He claimed it was 500hp and I believed that after riding in it!
No no no. Don't believe it has 500 Hp. An early musts f with stick with 300 is all you can use. 300 will burn tires and get the light mustangs moving. More is not better.
@@dukeallen432 Well, the question is- was it otherwise stock? Modify the suspension and tire size and your 300 estimate rapidly climbs. 500 is pretty generous for that ole light girl, but with proper chassis stiffening and suspension work, as well as sufficient tires... I could see 500.
Not to mention, where was that 500 made?
@@dukeallen432 You can never have enough. I'm just a bit over 400hp in a '65 mustang, 5.0L roller block, TFS 11R 190 heads and a custom cam and I'm getting bored with it. I've begun gathering parts to replace it with a 363 stroker.
Always Love to see high rpm screamers, everyone knows big engines can make power, the little guys are always underestimated! One of your best videos yet!
Thanks for what you do. This has become my favorite engine performance channel regardless of medium.
Good video. Next up 350 vs 351, actually still waiting on the modified supercharger video.
Great comparisons. Same went for factory /dealer options for both engines. Ford offered at least one inline four barrel carburetor and intake manifold for the Boss 302. While Chevrolet offered a log Ram 2 four barrel manifold / carburetor combo for the DZ 302. Just some recollections from an old man.
I have not found anyone with the extreme knowlege you have!!!! I am so impressed! thank you I have had to have my ford boss 302 some three times.....
I'm a cross between a Mopar and a GM guy but Ford high performance heads always seem to flow the best (except maybe vs Hemi heads). I remember a kid in high school back in the early '80's bought a '72 Torino with a 351 4V Cleveland in it. He paid $400 for it. He knew nothing about it except he thought it was cool. I knew that Cleveland 4V stuff was really hot. I had a 69 GTO at the time and knew what a lot about heads for a 17 year old. I helped the kid get his Torino running and it was a beast. It would smoke the tires and pull hard to 6500 rpms. I think it would have given my RHS built 455 in my GTO a run for it's money and it was stock except for headers. He was tinkering with it a couple of months later and it caught on fire in his driveway. It wasn't a total loss but needed a lot of wiring. I offered him $200 for it which he accepted. I needed to get my next paycheck to give him the money. Before I got back to get it his mom had it hauled off to the junkyard. I'm sure someone pulled the engine and used it just because of what it was. But to be honest the whole car was really cool and deserved to be repaired. Oh well, that happened to a lot of great cars back in that era. And I absolutely love the 302 Chevy, always one of the greats even though it makes less hp than the Boss!!!
head flow doent equal great. 4v heads are doodoo on the street. just cuz its got alot of cfm doesnt mean it can use it.
Another awesome test Richard thank you! Crazy how much power the 302’s pulled. If only i had your info in the 90’s I would of been much faster lol. If I would of had your info 3 years ago I would of built several engines by now lol
I really enjoyed this test, a tunnel ram for the clevor would be pretty sweet to test. As big cubes like a 408 or 427 with Cleveland top end would be interesting to see.
czcams.com/video/5Rz7paeKSOM/video.html
Lots of Aussie videos out there with built stroker Cleveland’s. They are very impressive.
That’s fabulous power out of a 302, you put so much work into this shootout series.
P.S. If they were from Australia, then they were aluminium heads, we spell things properly down here.
Soon, snooty Aussies may have to speak Chinese languages.
It's funny that the Euros and Aussies get so butthurt by the way Americans do things. Need I remind you that we put a man on the moon and no one else has?
@@Borderline5440 Don't do that to them, they mean well...
Borderline5440, that’s absolutely true, but that was many years ago when NASA was made up of people from all over the planet.
More recently you launched an imbecile into the White House...
1st Amendment Supporter, so close to a burn...
So just the “snooty Aussies” do the rest of us continue as normal?
How many “Chinese languages” do you think there are?
Not even 72 hours later you post my requested video, thanks richard!!!
Great video.
The little chevy did better than I thought it would against the big boss head.
Tunnel ram really helped to cram the air in those cylinders.
I'm a ford guy that loves the Boss engines but even I gota say the little chevy 302's were respectable challengers! They brought there A game that's foresure!
Excellent video Richard. I appreciate the fact you spent a lot of time and expense showing that a high compression small displacement engine can make 500hp. Especially knowing that a lower compression versions with only 7-8 psi of boost could easily make the hp numbers and far greater torque figures in a street drivable form.
Don't remember which engine building book mentions the fact but it claimed the original Trans-Am engines were in the 465hp range (not bad for 50 year old technology). More modern T/A builds exceed 2 hp/ci. Thanks Richard for this blast from the past.
You work your ass off and come up with solid numbers and data. Now let's see a 455 Buick modern build against olds455 Pontiac 455. Yeeaahh!
My money be on the Buick 455. I think the olds would be the lowest. In hp numbers, maybey not in torque. But I only believe this would hold true on the dyno. In real world setting I believe we might see failure points in the Buick engine.
The buick with stage 2 heads would be far better than the olds and Pontiac
@@jesseduke694 The Pontiac almost certainly make the least power, with it's' tiny bore but will have nice fat torque curve from the long stroke. Plus Pontiac didn't go all in on the 455 until 71'. Might be interesting to see what 70' SD 455 would have performed like with all the 400 go fast parts.
If you throw Chevy in there with the 454 it's likely to make the most power because of the heads and solid bump stick.
I love tunnel rams. back in the late 80's I had a tunnel ram and a pair of 725 cfm Carter AVS on a L88 427 in a Hondo v drive flat bottom drag boat. it was the loudest thing I have ever built. 105 db at idle and you did not want to be anywhere near it at full song. I got kicked off several lakes for it being to loud. back in the 70's Bill "grumpy" Jenkins used to use tunnel rams on his modified 330ci smallbocks.and made some massive power with them.
Great test. Tunnel rams and small block Chevy's used to rule in modified production and Bill Jenkins used the Edelbrock TR1-Y to power the small block Vega when pro stock was limited to small blocks. The Cleveland head design is very good, the small chamber and canted valves at a shallow angle help the flow. Check out the Yates heads for example.
I'm so glad to hear you use foot pound rather than pound feet. I can't stand the pound feet term! Yes I am aware that the pound feet is the correct term. But it's been foot pound forever and I will never get use to the new term. To me and most gearheads I know it doesn't sound right. Nuff said.
This was a pretty cool test. Back in the 90s during the Fox body craze. I messed with a lot of the small cube Ford engines and had a lot of fun with them. It is pretty cool to see these little 5.0s making over 500 horses naturally aspirated. Nice job man!
Loving the legendary engines stock and modified! Hope to see more!
My first car was a stock 69 Z/28, My best friend had a 69 Mach 1, 351 Cleveland which I built the motor for. I hated to admit it but it was way more powerful than my Camaro. However I raced two original Boss 302's and never lost. I thought they were super cool though. I've never been a Brand guy, I want what I think is best at the time.
Built a 400 Chevy with double humps and a 289 boss motor(with 351 Cleveland 4V heads). My 289 Boss motor was KILLER. All the parts were equivalent, but the BLUE OVAL smoked the 400 on the dyno.
545 hp on the SBC with tunnel ram and 2x4 carbs. 542 hp on the SBF with 1 carb. Very nice!
More bang for the buck with the Chevy.
Could have made 600hp with out of the box TrickFlow High Ports on the 302 Ford using higher compression and more stroke for the same money and embarrassed the Chevy.
They always do what they can to put Chevy on top.
I was surprised by the torque curve on each motor in stock and modified form. I didn't expect to find that area under the curve. David Vizard wasn't kidding about getting the best low lift flowing head for your budget and build the engine combo around it. Thanks!
YEAH finally someone said it. Same flow heads ,same displacement, same cam specs, same exhaust, Same dyno , same results. All the other parameters like cost, size, availability, loyalty, and so on come into play when making a choice. CAT gives it 8paws!
NASCAR is a perfect example of that🙂 different manufacturers, same specs.
Amazing tests!!!! Thank you so much!!!
Great show, massive knowledge, cheers from Oyster Pond NS Canada. My 1995 Corvette 6 sp needs another 125 hp. Fun car.
may be a ford boss motor under it..........
@@jamiegreenwood7996 After watching this Richard fella my 95 LT1 is getting 100 more ponies, thinking cam, rockers, lt4 throttle body and intake, long tube headers, high flow cats connected to my Corsa exhaust. With the zf 6 speed. should be noisy fun.
400 hp is more than enough to get the average “racer” in trouble. Give me a 400 hp 6spd Stang and I’d be a happy camper.
I couldn't agree more
I love these comparisons❤
I enjoyed this , great job.
Ya, and Cleveland heads rock! I was hoping that you would show that, so I can put it to bed with my Chevy friends .
Outstanding Content, Thank You Richard
Much appreciated!
Keep up the great test
Good job on the two air pump the more you can get in an out more power you can make
Tunnel Rams FTW.🤘
Those Fords heads are no joke.👀
I would love to have an 7000rpm 302 on a 1969 Camaro and just go around terrorizing punks at the lights.
Just to be a massive douche and a show-off.😁👍
You think your 4 banger can spin ?
Hold my Moonshine and my fake mullet.🤣
BOSS 302 is winner. Did the same power as the chevy that had a tunnel ram and 500cfm more.
@@nova467spanker not really you one sided fool. The ford had way more cam.....and made less power.
The boss 302 also got it's ass whooped in the trans am series by the chevy 302.
Coulda still went with sb2 heads on the chevy.
In all the tests the chevy 302 made more tq. TQ IS POWER.
@@HioSSilver1999 The cams are almost identical with the .050 measuments. Ford lift is only higher because of the stock rocker ratio. If you dont know how to figure these measurments out, i can show you.
with the bigger Comp cam the BOSS made 520hp@7000 400tq@5600. The Chevy made 518hp@7300 400tq@5600. Then he put a smaller cam in the BOSS and made 542hp. He didnt say what rpm but im sure its around the same as bigger cam. Point is, the BOSS made this 542hp with ONLY A SINGLE PLANE INTAKE, 1 950 CARB and LESS COMPRESSION. the chevy had to have A TUNNEL RAM WITH 1,500 cfm (2 750 carbs equals 1,500 cfm in case you cant do math) So with all that extra induction the chevy got, you only acheived 3hp more. He did not say what the tq was with the BOSS and the smaller cam but im confident it was more than the chevy did.
So then you say "Coulda still went with sb2 heads on the chevy" First off, He didnt test NASCAR heads. Second if you want to go that route then the sbf Yates heads will gladly hand your sb2 heads your ass back to ya. Good times LOOSER
@@HioSSilver1999 the boss 302 won the championship in 70. The reason it didnt win in 69 is becouse the ford had a problem with the wheels they were using & were plagued with broken rims. Not becouse they were out powered by chevy. Now with that being said, the 302 chevy is a respectable piece & I tip my hat to it. They do indeed have a torque advantage at lower engine speeds. But at higher rpms the Boss 302 has the advantage. U just cant deny the hp the ford creates with those heads! The cars just have to be geared accordingly. Ford guy, Chevy guy? U cant go wrong here. Be whatever guy u want here & u get be a winner.
@@jesseduke694 that's because there was no factory support for the z28 in 1970. Gm had effectively pulled out of racing.
Tq is power. The chevy 302 simply had more of it. Tq helps getting off the corner
So the ford 302 had more lift....we can agree on that and it doesn't really matter why. It had ALOT more lift and lost. One could put higher ratio rocker arms on the chevy and possibly make more power.
I really liked this test. I agree with you on the different routes you took. I wouldn't have gone so wild on the cam because I build street motors. I don't think that qualifies as a 'street friendly' camshaft, but I still liked it. Good job, interesting video!
I like both directions you went.
Those Cleve heads cleaned up in Engine Masters in the early 00s. Serious business there even box heads. Nice to see how the tunnel ram threw some icing on the cake for the DZ as well. I don't know that either engine could make full use of the heads they got without spinning to a gajillion RPM; there's no doubt in my mind there was flow to spare at 302 CID.
Back in 1975 i found a guy selling a Autolite inline 875 CFM carb and manifold. We put it on a Boss 305 CI Ford in AHRA formula 2 D Hot rod car. The national record at the time was 11.50. First pass ever down the quarter mile was 11.50. Eventually got it down to 11.25. The GM guys were furious with it. Was fun times when people were racing real factory produced engines and parts.
The Cross Boss was definitely cool
Hey Richard, Love your videos keep them up... Please do an AMC and Mopar video as they competed in trans am racing as well. Thanks.
Excellent video and information. Well explained and good selection of combos. I might suggest learning PowerPoint fro smoother delivery of graphs and fotos. Cheers
I love the real tests with parts someone would recipe together rather than trying to apples to apples 2 different trees.
I went to an SVRA race @ Road America a few years back. There was a Javelin that was right up front with everyone. The thing was fast. I believe they still have the 5 liter cap. It was impressive for an AMC with such limited options. I'd guess it would be a version of the 301? I think it was a 1970. Red white and blue colors. Really cool.
Richard, I would love to see a gen 3 hemi camshaft shootout. It would be really cool if you could use the magnum and 6.1 intake manifolds as those are the most common on the gen 3 hemi cars.
Your the man Richard thank you!
Haven't even watched this yet but I know it's going to be awesome!
it was ok
@@ryanaxberg9263 you should probably ask for your money back.
Good series of videos. Would be interesting to hear your thoughts on how the different rod/stroke ratios plays out with Torque over RPM range and affects reliability. Keep up the good work.
I honestly don't think rod length plays a part
Physics doesn't care what name is on a motor. Equally built engines will make equal power. I enjoyed this test showing the different routes take in building your engine
I guess I am old, because I find this fun. All the kids today just scoff and throw a turbo on.
awesome content
Street engine is a street engine and a race engine is a race engine. Decide what you want before you start building.
While these two manufacturers always compete I lean towards the Chevy because of the head bolt pattern. They also have better cylinder heads stock or modified. The kudos go to Ford with their distributor mounted at the front of the camshaft which keeps the engine timing more consistent.
Love it the only thing I wish was different in these videos is filmed dyno pulls
Love the comparison , I'm an Aussie and our 302 cube options were both the Windsor and our Geelong, Victoria ford Australian, 302 cube Cleveland variation ,which itself had an absolutely exquisite 57 cc quench chamber 2 Venturi cylinder head that flows beautifully , and yeilds a beautiful compression increase in 351 Cleveland's. These stock 2 v heads would have been a very nice set of heads to add to your combo for the test. These quench chamber heads would also be an excellent set for any street 351 Cleveland or 351 boss Windsor( especially for the late model roller cam version).I measured up my 351 Cleveland and designed a cam profile(solid lifter) that worked perfectly for the Cleveland with its offset gudgeon pistons fitted reversed , to take advantage of the gudgeon pin offset yeilding an early end to the compression stroke with an early piston dwell about 2 degrees before TDC and the early start to the power stroke.any pinging in this combo occurs at TDC and therefore with the piston allready travelling downwards results in a nice combustion pressure increase without any negative effects to durability.
Fantastic as usual. A possible idea for a future "series": Dyno fails-stuff that just did not work at all. Not for destruction stuff, but parts people thought made power, but just didn't.
Example: At a dyno I used to frequent, a guy brought in a SB Ford Cobra engine with downdraft Weber carbs. They had these filter/screens that fit right over the top of the stacks. Turns out they cost like 40-50 horsepower
those do cost a lot of power
nice to see some unbiased opinions rather than some of the more popular channels we know where they clearly just want to advertise and sell parts for that particular engine *"chevy" coughs*
Richard Holdener, Love 97% your content and strongly like the other 3%!!! What I'd love to see, that nobody on the tube has done to my knowledge, is a throwdown between a aftermarket headed and blocked 427 sbc & a aftermarket 427 lsx. I see quite a few comparisons between the ls and the old school sbc, but most seem unevenly matched. But a full race prepped SBC vs a comparable LS would be a great video, especially if you do it! And that much better with turbos!!!
I really like your videos, keep'em rock'n 👍
I am going to build a chevy 302 with these specs with dart block as base.love the 7500+ rpm rev noise of small block chevy bolted to a heavy duty 5sp trans.👍
In the 80s I ran a small journal 327 in my stock car on asphalt. At the end of the chute, it was turning about 8700 RPM. Everybody said it sounded crazy at that RPM so I had my friend that also raced hot lap it with me standing at the end of the chute. I was surprised I could hear the sound of the rotating assembly of the engine even with open headers when the car was coming towards me. After I heard the engine winding at that RPM even with a scatter shield I wanted to drive the car with my toes curled up in my shoes.
No point really IMO you build and 350 and hit those targets, so why miss out on that free torque.
I want to build one with a 400 bore block to see if the extra room beside the valves helps them flow.
@@GlassTopRX7 whats the point of doing anything at that point
I like this guy. Awesome videos man
Thanks again Richard
Great test we ran a 302 in a v drive flat bottom boat turned it 7500 with a tunnel ram . Used the optional z28 solid lift cam . Back the. If you wanted a set of good head . Reher-Morrison. and even now i know what those head do lol
I built a simular style boss 302 doing it in a farm shop, and a school serface grinder. using my secret heads, having nearly 1/4 inch bigger around valves, and beveled the ports to fit a bigger ported intake i choped serface planed to adapt a super charger plate, using a 34 jet in a 750 holy 4 barel it dynoed out at 465 peak horses using a dual point distributor, was a fun little 8 second maverick. i am sure i coulda pulled quicker times if i played with the susppention and such more but i was happy with having fun with way it was
I really enjoy your videos very informative.. I have a 96 trans am LT1... And I'm looking to modify the the engine... What are your views on stroked vs destroked 350
Richard, we want 3800 "other guy " content! Didn't you say once you owned or worked at a 3800 performance shop? Come on! 600hp turbo blow through super charged sick cylinder!
working on that
I would love to hear these engines. I bet they sound awesome!
I remember being told back when that the smaller bearing size of the 283 i think crank was worth about 10 hp at 10k rpm . I never went there with my motor lol . There were many things done i remember that i was told the crank was 10 deg retarded in the Monza . Its amazing how things have changed . Especially how well the ls motor runs comparing to the the 302 . I wanted to build another one because it was so much fun and ran so well but now probably a 6. 0 and a turbo or a procharger .
Interesting it took a tunnel and 2 x 750 CFM carbs to equal what the Boss did with a single 4 bbl.
Excellent work...my favorite muscle car that I actually owned was a 1971 Oldsmobile 442 ...455 rocket/ TH 375b trans and a 10 bolt 308 limited slip diff...gobs of torque and adequate hp to shock many conventional 1/4 mile street racers...and very reliable as a daily driver...11mpg avg. I always wondered what would happen if they were massaged and tricked out like the others. Do you know of anyone who's tried it?
I had an Edelbrock tunnel ram with two 600s on a 302, in my pro-street Vega. Worked great, my wife even drove it to work a couple of times.
Have you ever had any experience with crossrams though? I have a Micky Thompson that I was considering installing on my 406 sbc. It has been modified to mount two Quadrajets.
people had to work hard to make them work is what I am told
@@richardholdener1727 Well, I have read that also, while searching for info in forums.
However that's really hard for me to believe, as I have read all the same things about tunnel rams. And I know from experience that tunnel rams work great and make big power.
Was just hoping maybe you guys had worked with them some in the past.
I'd like to see a Dodge 340 build. These were BB killers when massaged a little back in the day
Awesome test but the nostalgia in me would have liked to see if you could have got your hands on the old school performance parts that were available in '69 or '70 so the heads would probably have been stock but with some magic port work and the old school performance cams. Probably asking for some rare high $$ parts but you must think that would have been cool to see how they were back then.
Request granted! Super info. Those Aussies make some killer parts. How about putting some CID heads on a big block?
Yep love both but its hard to beat the power the Cleveland heads make
Good Gear-Head Info.
Love the Boss. It has to be a pretty healthy motor to compete with the Boss 302 or Boss 351 especially with those Cleveland style heads.
I really would liked to have seen a full build up using the original iron heads on both engines. Im sure the Ford would probably win but it would cool to see how much you can get from the iron Boss heads as well as the Chevy fuelie heads as well.
Put the tunnel ram on the Ford. Yes I'm one of those guys that would love to see the comparison, because if it was "back in the day" , knowone would've been changing heads unless you were tied in with a factory or aftermarket race program . We're doing it in the driveway, cause dad won't let us use the garage!
Tunnel rams are a joke.
Love it. From my time.
Done it alot.
Can we get the Mopar 305 from the trans-am days?
F-5000 is where that engine had it's success. UOP Shadows
Nice comparison would have like to see you compare them with similar compression and induction, the Poor Ford was tested at pump gas compression and no tunnel ram both of which I believe would have made a positive power gain
Those are F5000 cam and power numbers there. Would be nice to see a gaggle of Webbers on there for the ultimate. Nice