Rare BOSS 302 On Dyno - Fire Breathing Ford
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- čas přidán 12. 05. 2019
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Nick loves all kinds of muscle cars, and he is lucky enough to have customers who bring him some of the most desirable cars anywhere. This week, he's starting up a BOSS 302 that has spent the better part of the last three decades waiting for Nick's rebuild. Nick also takes a minute to show us around a first gen Viper, and give us an update on his own 1970 Dodge Challenger. - Auta a dopravní prostředky
To static time a FORD, set the crank to 12 Deg before TDC (or what is is supposed to be). Put a 12 volt light bulb on the distributor. Turn the distributor with the rotation until the bulb lights. Then turn it the other way until the bulb JUST goes out. LOCK the distributor. It is timed. It will start perfectly. That is the way they do it at FORD. They start every time! (a 68 year old Ford mechanic)
Don Ogoobo I’m with ya Don. I wonder how many people can set dual point ignitions anymore? Or even know what a dwell meter is?
@@deborahchesser7375I wrote a story called that oil tool box.They think it could be fixed with a lap top. Not a clue.
Oh yea! Brings back FOND memories adjusting hot lash on '66 Shelby GT (while running) , dual points AND with a factory Paxton! Yea baby...👍
Here Chebie chebie....😀
Deborah... a screwdriver, matchbook cover and a pair of Blue Streaks in the glove box...✔
I was thinking the same thing. For some reason, people treat timing an engine like some sort of mystical effort. I presume Nick knows his stuff, I guess we all have brain farts.
The Boss 302 was and still is one of the greatest small block V8s ever built. I like Chrysler,but I love my Fords. They've always been great for me.
that 289HP though . they were bullet proof
had a 1967 1/2 mustang some parts were 67 some were 68 . red with 2 black stripes down the hood. uni-body thoroughly rotted but could not kill that engine .
390 4V P code 👍👍👍
Nah the 351w dominated that smurf motor.
The Boss 302 was a real terror on the street, the combination of radical solid lifter cam , headers , 780 dual feed and those awesome heads with 2.23 intake and 1.77 exhaust ports in 69 made that SB what it was, a fire breathing BB chevy and mopar Terminator. Knew a die hard chevy guy who owned one and he said it was the fastest car he ever raced and he never lost even to a 69 427 chevelle and a 70 440 6pk challenger. WOW.
I had a 302 BOSS and I would run it over 7500 RPM and it wanted more. It is one of the best engines ford ever built.
I sure agree. I can't afford a boss mustang but I have an engine and put one in my truck. Long rods 5.4' and custom pistons and gear drive.
It took me 30 hours to fit 351 cleveland headers on that engine and exhaust pipes. I used two five inch round drive lines off of the headers for pipes. And motor home mufflers. These trucks have an extra cross member below the transmission so I cut it out of the way to have room for headers and the drive lines as exhaust pipes. This engine sounds incredible.
My 68 f-100 has shitty brakes and never really seen what the engine can do. In front of a c4 automatic. I ran up a mountain pass one time with two cleveland engines in the bed and a 454 chevy truck loaded with furniture tryed to out run me going up. It was the only time I laided into it hard. Figured it was safe going up hill. Interesting how the engine always had more left in it where I could see the Chevy was all done. I stopped at the top of the pass and let the Chevy go by. Wasn't going to have that guy dog me going down hill with them shitty brakes.
Ford's Boss 302 is legendary!
Stock 302 even the Boss 302.......I would never take then over 6500, I know they can take more but why over do it...I want them to last !!!!!!
My dad had a 70 boss 302 cougar eliminator and he said the same thing, he'd pull it 7500+ rpm. That cougar was the favorite car he ever owned. Very rare
@@stephenliviniuk7039 an engine needs to make more than just high RPMs he needs to make torque with the RPMs in order to make Power
All engines will spit fire if the ignition timing is out far enough.
Right? Pushing the distributor so far the vacuum advance is hitting the manifold. Distributor was off at least a tooth. Next scene, vacuum advance is square in front of the engine and they push it over 5 degrees and it starts and runs. If they had been a tooth the other direction it would have spun backward and thrown a rod. As it is they probably need to go through the carb. Power valve gets blown and is forever lean. Notice they did not talk about mixture?
Stock Ford timing 6 btc I run mine at 18 btc 12 deg differences and it runs fine. If he has the timing so far off after adjusting three times. He should be no where near a paying customers engine
@@JoshuaSeed yes totally agree mate, ford engines ( V8 ) are not easy to aline ( mesh ) dizzy & cam gears.
Chevy are alot easier to install dizzy
Corey Baldwin .180 out will do that real nice, or a broke rocker
Jason Currie that’s why ya gotta love crank triggered ignition
Growing up back in the 70's my neighbor (the local mechanic) was a Ford guy....taught me how to wrench on cars and keep me out of trouble.....his kids had a Boss 302. Shelby GT-350 and GT500, Grabber Maverick(302)
I worked on my uncles 56 ford station wagon with the 312 thunderbird special engine. it was a typical ford problem. engine backfires and busts the vacuum enrichment diaphragm in the holly 4 barrel. I must say that when I got it running rite it had a lot of power.
Fords were simple. Turn the engine around to 12 Degrees before TDC. Then hook a light bulb to a 12 VDC source. the bulb ground wire to the points. Turn the distributor against the direction of rotation until the bulb lights. Turn the disty in direction of rotation until the bulb blinks off. Lock the disty clamp. If you have 23 Degrees in the disty advance, you are timed. If not, power time it with a light. I bought a 1969 Boss new, and owned it for 25 years. It needs a 6 valve fuel pump to be happy.......Good video Nick.
I had a BOSS 351C I put in a 68 Fairlane 500 Fastback... That thing would scream, I love the sound of the solid lift valve train...
Sounds like a death trap brohan
@@starlord8226 With drum brakes up front, yeah it was a little scary if you needed to stop quickly. At the time I was young and felt invincible and totally unconcerned about it, "almost" totally unconcerned.. lol.
@@johnguilbert1349 jeez man drum breaks? If anyone I bet you appreciate modern brakes.
Can’t say I’ve ever seen a Cleveland in a 68/69 chassis. I had a 68’ Torino with a 390 until I sold it a few years ago.
@@davidshelby4534 It was not the original motor. It had a 2 barrel 302 with a C4 transmission when I bought it. I was able to find and BOSS 351C through the grapevine and transplanted it into the car with a C6 transmission. Talk about waking that car up, the power was a night and day difference. I love the old Fairlane's and Torino's. Still thinking about getting another one someday. The 351C fit in there real nicely, I used mustang headers that tucked tight to the block, I could stab in the motor with the transmission and the headers all bolted together at one which was nice.
my brother inlaw had 1 of those boss 302 bought it new in 1970 drove it 25 years no problems
The BOSS 302 had one definite weak point: the piston skirts. If continuously reved to max RPMs the skirts tended to crack and often separate. Using a set of aftermarket TRW pistons with their improved, interior-rib-reinforced skirts, cured that problem for good.
BTW, TRW was the manufacturer of the OEM pistons ... but to Ford Engineering's specs.
Thats because you didnt let Nick touch it
Nick, I've built a ton of Ford's engines over the years, including my favorite 351 Street Boss :) and the distributor vacuum canister always is point strait to the front of the motor... then start and adjust the timing, it ain't no 383 Mopar :)
That's for shur, a 340ci Mopar Wil make that boss 302 look like a big ol pile of 💩 watched a 71 duster stock 340 out run a boss 302 mustang by 3 car lengths both bone stock cars then a 66 Plymouth valiant 273 commando make a 302 maverick look stupid
@@TheTeddy9212 Then them Ford Guys don't know how to tunes their motors.... In my 71' Pinto with a 289 was unbeatable for two years back in 1978 to 1980 at the high altitute, 5400 feet, Albuquerque Speedway :) A 71' 396 Camero ran me down and lost by a half a car length.... Same luck with my 1970 GTX 383 B-Body up against other big body cars... Really Loved my GTX! The best looking of all Dodge/Plymouths!
@@danielmcqueen1024 was ur 302 stock with AC ?no 302 in a mustang would touch a factory 273 commando in a barracuda or dart or valiant.a 302 n a mustang or maverick is a joke i specially if it was a standard 302 my ol man had a 68 roadrunner outrun Most anything in his motor class only thing outrun him was a Pontiac with a 389 trypower 396 Chevy's weren't even a threat.
When I was a kid, back in the mid 70's, I remember the neighbor's 66 Galexie 7.0, he drove weekends and so on. It was totally stock as he was the original owner. He loved that car...… He couldn't get it to start one morning and pulled the top of the air cleaner off to check choke and crap. He hopped in and cranked it and the same mushroom fire ball erupted and the car caught on fire. Never bought a Ford until the late 90's because GM and Chrysler were producing cars that fall apart and massive mechanical issues. That engine in our truck, that's suppose to be crap, 5.4, is still going strong with over 470,000 miles..... We even dropped the first replacement transmission in at 430,000, because it's still running strong. So, I guess what I'm say'n is it's all about how a guy maintains his rig..... I guess....
Those Ford Triton truck engines are bulletproof. I have an 02 F-250 with the 5.4 and it just hit 300,000 miles and still runs really strong. Youve just gotta keep up on oil changes and they'll run forever
@@jeremythompson9122 Exactly! Our truck is a 99. I read about the oil port clog issue, before we bought it, and switched to full synthetic with 5K filters. Never had any clog port issues. Ford changed their ways in the mid 90's. Nobody noticed!
Ford 302’s in the foxbody mustangs as well...mine had nearly 400,000km on the original engine and t5 trans...never broke the trans because I never slam shifted it...engine only just started burning half a quart every 6000km when I sold it...I drove the crap out of it every day I had it and it took the abuse...stock flywheel to boot with just an upgraded clutch...only reason I sold it was because it was getting too rusty...looking to find one in brand new condition now and keeping that for the rest of my life now that I can afford to not have to drive my toys in the winter
@@monikhushalpuri Yes! I totally agree. The key with Ford, is as it once was for GM, never buy the first and second model year to figure out which engine combination has the least problems. With GM and Chrysler, they proved, with all the outsourcing, to be nothing but a collective of lowest bid wins automotive. Producing nothing but junk components. My fear is, Ford is moving much production out of Canada and the States, to Mexico and China. I have a feeling, soon, electric cars and truck will be the way to go as turbo and component issues are surfacing for the Ecoboost engines. It's sad.
Chuck Haugan a lot of the turbo issue’s can be reduced if people just waited until the car is warmed up before they thrash it...along with cooldown after done driving...generally 2-10 minutes depending on how hard you drive...supercharging you don’t have to worry about that plus you get more low end torque with a supercharger...meaning a deeper overdrive can be used even on 4cyl for better fuel economy but everyone is turbo crazy
That Ford knows you guys are Mopar lovers 😉😜
Slowpar lovers. I’ve raced Mopars over the years and have yet to be outran by one with my Cleveland. $3500.00 Cleveland running low 9’s...You’d have to remortgage your house to get a Slowpar to run those numbers!
@@dallascowboys1683 like your comments. My friend has a 383 roadrunner. I had a 69 four speed cougar that I put a cleveland in. He was flustered and put a 440. Still couldn't keep up. I had a Sig Erson Viking cam and valve springs. 800 carb headers. Torquer intake. Best small block ever.
@@dallascowboys1683 True ..Stock Cleveland 351 alone will easily yield better than 1 HP per CID
The only downside to a Cleveland motor is how big those heads are. Great on the track at high rpm, lousy on the street under 4000rpm.
@@ScottKenny1978 This's true as the Boss 351 Cleveland was designed with NASCAR/NHRA in mind we're talking about heads with nearly 2-1/4" inch intake valves, hi-compression combustion chambers 62cc and intake ports large enough to stuff a good size baking potato in lol!!! in fact larger intake ports than that of both the OEM Ford 460 and Chevy 454..And yes with the Boss 351 you have to spool up and leave at around 4500-5000 rpm to really utilize that massive upper induction.. However Australia has a 2v head thats very suitable for the street strip with even higher combustion chambers 57cc and slightly smaller intake valve but still in the 2" inch range.. and intake ports still slighty larger than its Windsor brother...and you dont have to rev up to more than 4000-5000 rpm to make nice power with good street manners ..
You forgot to wear your KISS make-up before doing the Ford start up. I thought a full blown concert was going to break out. 😂
HA! that's funny!
No thats chevy!
1962pjb don't get me wrong, I love Fords, but sometimes they can be... a little bitchy. Especially when cold.
It's all in the mechanic ....
The AAR and the BOSS , two jewels of automotive history .
They had a nice AAR street package ..but by the time Plymouth entered the AAR in the SCCA Trans Am series in 1970 with drivers Swede Savage and Dan Gurney, the AAR was way out classed and finished last in the series ..while the Boss 302 won the title. Plymouth pulled out of the series after the 1970 disaster..
@@BobbyOfEarth I always wondered how Ford, GM and even AMC were held to the 305 cubic inch limit for their trans am street versions (Boss 302, Camaro Z/28 302, Javelin 304) yet the AAR and T/A were sold with 340 six packs but used de-stroked 305 cubic inch versions in the race cars.
@@MaliciousSRT, in 1970, the SCCA dropped the requirement that the OEMs sell street versions of their 5-litre race engines, which allowed Chrysler in '70 to sell the AAR and T/A with strengthened-block 340s, Chevy to sell Z/28s with LT-1 350s, and Ford in '71 to sell Boss 351 Mustangs.
1970 BOSS 302 , possibly the most desirable muscle car ever offered by Detroit .
Phillip Lopez desirable ....definitely. MOST desirable?? Debatable, because there are so many contenders. Sale prices would tend to favor the 71 Hemi Cuda, but I think that was a bit of a fad. 69.5 Sixpack SuperBee and Six-barrel Roadrunner would be right up there. 67 GTO, 70 Judge, 69 Charger 500, AMX, Torino SCJ, 70 Buick GSX.... wouldn’t toss any out of my garage. ;) PS- I’m not even bringing up the “pony” vs “muscle” car distinction....
So it was the coil not the ford motor that was causing problems
Only the poor musician blames the instrument (or its maker).
i think it was some dirt on the intake valve seat .i had it happen a few times. It will go away with a few hits on the valve with a rubber mallet while pumping air into the spark plug hole.
@Jarvy Mcmunn me too , but i always put pressure in each cylinder and listen for leaks . the one that leaks I hit it and it goes away .
I dont think They had the timing set even remotely close. Look how many times he told him to advance it
Most of the time those cheap aftermarket coils like accel or MSD are actually trash and don't offer much benefit. If you want an actual improvement do a TFI coil and HEI conversion
Nothing wrong with that Ford motor. Aftermarket part failed.
Yup .
Love the channel. Nick is a cool old school guy. Would have liked to see what power the Boss 302 would have made at the top side of 7000 rpm.
Is this the person to whom II am speaking to?
Travis...
Look at the torque curve...
It's all out of cam and springs.
Ray. Yessir, it looks like power drops off considerably. Id like to see a an old 273 commando on Nicks dyno sometime cool old engine.
The firing order is different on a Ford HO than a regular 5 liter. HO firing order is 1372 6548 and the non HO is 1542 6378
Not only that, but if you zoom in on the overhead view, they have the firing order 15437268. YEAH, one try Dislexnick! If he wants to complain about the brand vehicles we have ALWAYS cherished, then he should at least make it known that it was his OWN Dumbass doing. So many people these days refuse to admit that they don’t know what they are doing! I hate finger pointers.
Bingo!
289 HIPO and Boss 302 had the same cams....Boss uses 1.7 rockers... Check out the specs.
They do NOT have the 351W firing order.
@@hotrodray6802 - Specs can be same with different firing orders...
That is because the first HO engines used a Cam from a Boat engine, Boat engines used a 351 cam! The 351 was the first engine to use the modified firing order!
Nick's problems make me feel better. I run into endless problems on the two cars I'm rwstorig too. Fights you every inch.
You accomplished that 302
That engine sounded beautiful.
Thanks. We try hard to capture good sound for these videos. But nothing compares to being there in person, so you can feel the thunder as well as hear it.
I've worked in film and television production for many years. Your location soundman does an excellent job.
Boss 302 Mustangs.
Brings back a memory of a 70 Boss 302 in Grabber Blue when I was a kid.
That's when they were $4k cars....lol.
That's when I had 1971 Z28 Camaro with an LT1 and a 1972 Chevelle SS 402,loved both.
Got to love em.
Actually I bought a boss 302 Mustang for under $500. I bought a 69 Chevelle SS 396 4 speed that still have the original smog pump and Muncie shifter. Both went in the trash and are worth the fortune today. I bought the car for $600 raced it for several years and sold it in pieces. I had a 68 and 69 GTO a 67 and 68 Firebird. A 68 Camaro all of these muscle cars and none of them cost more than $600. Many I was given for free. During the mid and late 70s you could not sell these cars. The only people who wanted them where high school kids and a few people who fell in love with them in the 60s. Everyblock had a garage with a retired muscle car sitting on blocks. People couldn't afford to drive them but did not want to get rid of them. At that time you could only buy gasoline every other day and only $5 at a time after waiting in line sometimes for hours. Gas was so hard to get people would get out and push their cars as the line moved forward because they couldn't afford to idle them. Lightweight Japanese cars we're taking over the market but we're illegal for us automakers to build because Congress required them to survive a 5 mile per hour Collision without any damage. At that time Congress did not want to impose such restrictions on other countries selling cars so naturally American cars were gas Hogs although much safer. I enjoyed driving all of these cars but my favorites where the 67 Firebird which I still own today still title to the original owner my mother bought it brand new. It was a 400 with hood scoops that she thought was cute and she liked the factory chrome engine options that came standard on the high output Firebird and GTO. It was Factory rated at 360 horsepower in the GTO and 330 in the Firebird but the engine was identical it was just a sleight-of-hand because the corporate General Motors policy wanted less powerful engines in lighter cars. The engineers got around this when they stuffed a 427 big block into a 69 Camaro and sold it through their commercial division which normally only supplied taxi cabs and ambulances but now they sold race cars lol. I inherited the Firebird when that will pump went secondary to a timing chain repair where they did not clean out the oil sump and plastic timing sprocket parts seized up the oil pump. I put a new oil pump new lifters pushrods and rocker arms and it ran the quarter-mile in High 13 seconds completely stock using only first and second gear on the turbo hydramatic 400 transmission. I'm guessing about 400 horsepower at the flywheel and over 500 foot pounds of torque. I managed to get it down to 11 seconds after replacing the Pistons with higher compression upgrading to a factory Ram Air 4 camshaft competition valve job and Port matching. A cheap pair of headers and electronic ignition. Also used a Vega torque converter which I could stall above 3000 RPMs so it launched pretty hard for that era. I eventually went with a 427 Chevrolet engine with large rectangular ports. I think I was getting about 800 horsepower from it. I still have the car and both engines but I haven't driven them since the 1980s. All the rest of the cars were stripped for parts. Back then it was a no-brainer, my 69 SS 396 Chevelle I sold the engine for more than the whole car cost. The hood sold real fast all of the SS emblems transmission the 12-bolt rear etcetera. I raced it for a few years and then sold it off in parts. Keep in mind it costs thousands to restore one of those cars back then and they were only worth hundreds so most of them were scrapped. I've seen many muscle cars get crushed for scrap metal which is probably why they are valued so high today.
It was nice chatting with you guys I really miss those days. We drove on disc brakes and bias ply tires and didn't know health insurance it was and it didn't matter much to us. Most races were one because the person was better at keeping the car tuned or better driver. My Firebird even beat a beautiful Hemi Cuda that somebody was given by their daddy and wasn't very good at tuning or driving. He probably had at least 50 horsepower on me but he couldn't even launched it without bogging the engine and even though I melted my tires a bit too much I was still able to take him off the line and managed to stay in front throughout the race. The hemis were an exception they were so rare that you couldn't touch one for under $10,000. If only I had a place to store these cars I would have kept everyone. I lived a good life and got to drive cars other people can only dream on. I also worked on exotic sports cars like Lamborghini Countach Porsche Ferrari and custom hot rods. I really love that job. I'm still amazed that you can walk into a dealer and buy a car with over eight hundred horsepower today. Back then we had to work so hard 4 numbers like that.
@@dondakota920 You're Killin Me!
I had a 67 Firebird with the 400 HO & 4 spd. I was 19 yrs old and a new father so I ended up selling. Ouch! I'd give one eye and all my teeth,, & maybe 1 testic...! to have one now!
On social security so that's just a dream though. Right on Don D. Nice to hear your tale! 😁
@@loganpe427 thanks bro, I'm surprised you made it all the way through that wall of text LOL and with all the autocorrects...
I had my cleveland rebuild at a shop the guy working there is like nick with all the oldskool knowledge. Sadly he just retired. People like Nick with the knowledgde of these old school engines is getting more rare by the day.
I'm glad you had this 302 on the build. It is my favorite engine ever made after the 390FE. I know that the 390 is an old engine but it's what I worked on a lot when I was a young man. I had a really nicely built 390 in a 64 Galaxie 500 XL and it is my all time favorite car. I never was into the pony cars too much but I did have a couple in my day. I am much more of an original equipment unmolested kind of guy but I look for those with larger displacement types. I love MOPARS also and have had quite a few also. I think the most dependable engine MOPAR ever made was the 318. Even though it wasn't a very large displacement engine with a four barrel and a few upgrades it would run very well. The dependability of the engine was really what I liked about it.I have owned a lot of different cars and trucks in my day and loved getting a new old car no matter what make it was. I always learned a lot about all kinds of vehicles. I'm probably a little older than you Nick but I understand what you are talking about when you say something about a car. Most people don't really understand what you are saying but it's great that you try to show people what you are talking about. There aren't many real mechanics left but you are growing some there in your shop. I believe they have one of the greatest mechanics in the country to learn from-THAT IS YOU NICK! I hope you stick around for a long time, people need guys like you in their lives.
I concur on the 318 and love early 60's full size Ford's. 352 Interceptor, 390, 406, 427.
My neighbor in Arlington Va. had a 62 Galaxie 500 with a 406 and 3x2 and a four speed. I was 11 years old at the time. He would take me for rides in it from time to time. Great car. Your 64 was the most beautiful of them. At the same time, across the street, another neighbor friend had a 1962 409 Impala SS 4 speed. I got to ride in it also. To top it off, another neighbor one block away had a 62 406 Galaxie for his wife and a 1963 427 Galaxie for himself. They were both red cars. I myself had a 68 Charger 440 RT, a 70 Challenger 440 RT/SE and a 72 340 Challenger RT. Never got to own a HEMI. That's another story though. Thanks for sharing your story. I definitely enjoyed and relate.
P.S. I forgot to mention my best MOPAR. 1969 GTX 440 auto on the console, power steering, power breaks and air conditioning. I bought it when it was 1&1/2 years old from the original owner. I grew up at the best time for cars and performance. Nick's show is a great walk down memory lane, past and present.
Always cracks me up when someone is jacking around the distributor trying to find the timing. I was taught to static time the engine and was required to be within 1/2 of a degree. First thing to do is test for spark. Max HP is fine but you also want drivability. Glad to see that he is meticulous.
I've done it by ear pretty much the entire time.
Chiltons and the sticker on my valve cover call for 6* BTDC on my 302, thing won't even hit at 6*.
She'll run like a top at 22* initial mid 40s total mechanical and low 60s vacuum advance. Low compression 74 302.
Bonus is that ridiculous timing gives it excellent gas mileage. Clocked at 23.9 mpg @ 70mph with a Holley 600 or Autolite 4100. AOD and longtubes.
Not sure what the deal is with 6*, later models run 12* initial and mechanically they're almost identical.
@@glenwaldrop8166 Your timing pointer is probably not correct. I guarantee you that you can't set the timing by "ear" and have it run the best on the dyno unless you get lucky. About 99% of the time it'll be way over advanced.
Been doing this for 24+ years.
I use a light, but I set initial start up by ear. The light isn't accurate until you're turning at least 600-800 RPM, the delay for the ignition, the wire and the mechanical advance is still locked in. Even at 800 RPM most mechanical has at least come off the stop, which throws a little variance in your initial timing.
I didn't say it would do better on a dyno, it's an 8:1 compression engine. There's zero reason to tune it for max power, it's just not powerful. I can, however, tune it for max economy. Back the timing off by about 10 degrees if I ever want max power.
When we tune for customers we use a light. For my personal vehicles I tune for max economy, push it until it pings and pull it back a bit, max power is secondary. On my little street engines the difference between max economy and max power is incredibly small. My little 302 has 220hp theoretical at best, pushing the timing like crazy it is still 210 or so. My 390 in my F100 doesn't care, it'll spin tires at 1200 RPM whether I tune max power or max economy, so I tune economy, or try in vain at least.
I have built many Ford engines with distributors and NEVER had one backfire. It's even easier with points as you can spark time it by bringing #1 piston up to TDC and then moving the distributor around #1 firing. Once the points open the coil field will collapse and set off spark. By using this method I've been able to set the timing to within 2 degrees. In Nicks defense Ford does have 2 firing orders for their pushrod engines 15426378 and 13726548 so it does get confusing especially if someone changed the cam. This the 1372 FO was done to reduce main bearing loads and main thump at idle on some of the 289 and 302's. Overall I enjoy watching Nick and his crew and I'm a true died in the wool Ford Man but have total respect for Mopars as well and hope some day to own a 69 Charger
This is good advice and a great trick to time an engine pretty accurately before it ever fires up. However I would set the crank at 8 deg BTDC (or wherever you intend to run your timing at idle) rather than TDC. Also we would hook a battery powered buzzer across the points so that you can hear when the points open rather than having to look at something. Makes it a little easier.
460. The previous Ford "351 Cleveland" I had on the Dyno had a distributor issue. And now with the 302 Boss, a coil issue.
Even with electronic ignition I learned you can set time and within two degrees by watching the two trigger wheels once the wheel starts to pass the other wheel you know you got it right I usually set the engine at the timing Mark I want weathers 8 degrees or 10 degrees and then I watch the points or the trigger wheels in the distributor as I move the distributor Vincent tell her I have a spark with points or the trigger wheel moves just passed the point when they match
I've built and swapped out plenty of Fords over many different era's of ignition systems but your not using the vehicle's ignition on a dyno. I think there's a voltage difference in start up compared to run on a Dodge but not a Ford. I could be wrong and most likely am but my point is start up on a dyno can have issues depending on the ignition system. I'm not going to run in and say I can get it started until I at least know my ignition system is the same and I know how it works. Nick chose his own system and found the problem and it probably would have happened on any engine but it just happened to be a Ford on this day. Fords are the same as any other engine as with coils and distributors and carbs they all fail.
@silverbird58 true we all know that but none of those cars were stock and I dont think a Boss 302 was ever in NASCAR. Boss 429's were.
Could not wait to watch this
Nick and the guys you are awesome , strait up no bull...
Always nice to watch the show
What Diego said.
I have built a lot of Fords, never had the back fire problems.
That is true. But it's hard to tell what the setting actually is when you're first starting a motor
I would love to see the Viper engine on the dyno!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It’s because he put a coil he knew was bad on it. He said it had been giving him problems. Then complains that it’s because it’s a Ford. He has problems with a lot of motors, but only blames the make when it’s a Ford.
They probably mixed up the fire order with the ol fire order change after 86.
Fords always pigs..cazy oil systems..and. Do back 🔥..sometimes. All part of the beast..
Man Nick you make me cry, as I loved working on old Fords. As I had a 1965 F-100 with a 240 inline 6, with three on the tree then jumped up to a 1972 that I dropped a 351 Windsor in that had 302 Gerber heads on it. And yes the heads was modified to fit that 351 Windsor, was easy to start it and get it dialed in. Two tricks I learned though when rebuilding old Ford's. 1. Always rebuild the radiator and 2. always put a brand new coil on them as Fords tend to hate first starts with the original coil. Dunno why it just hates using the original coils on a rebuild. Sadly I stopped working on car's as a professional mechanic for the public, due to how a few bad apples always tried to scam me on the work I did or parts I had to sell. So I just do not do it for the public anymore, but will do it for a few good friends that I know will not mess me over.
10 seconds in and Nick sez " There's always a problem with a Ford on the Dyno ".
That's MOPAR Blood flowin' in Nicks veins.
Negative, Mikey. That's ignorance flowin' in Nick's veins!
@@wwrunk5551 it bugs me when people blame the machine when they don't know how to set it up right. BUT, he's learning so...
@@wendlormsby I don't think Nick has the ignorance.
Nick, Ford and you don't mix well, you are the king of Dodge.
My 71 torino 500. 351 Cleveland pushing 530 horses to the rear wheels.. car was sweet.. motor ran so good
Nick says, "give it some more".
180 degrees later, the motor starts...lol
At the 24:12 timeline you can see something, possibly a spark plug wire, arcing. I enjoy watching every video, especially the dyno pulls.That blue Challenger R/T is beautiful !!!
I have been watching Nick for a long long time and I have never heard him curse until he worked on a ford. I hear ya Nick. Mopar all the way
I have found that I am multilingual.....I can curse in Ford, GM, and Mopar. Maybe a bit in VW also.....Man, you'd think there'd be a place for a guy like me....
Pfft. I am sure a I would have problems with Mopar too since I am accustomed to SBF & BBF’s. Although I wouldn’t let my opinions get in the way. You must not get your hands real dirty with a dumbass statement like that.
I have seen coils cause numerous problems trust me nick knows what he’s doing
My first motor build when I was a teen was a 67 Mustang 289 2 barrel. FoMoCo had a high performance catalog right at the dealer. Edelbrock Torker manifold, Holley carb, Crane cam, overbore Mahle pistons, headers, head work, distributor spring kit, all the good stuff. I never dyno'd it, but I never lost a street race either, and it hit 130mph easy, at which point it felt unstable so I backed off. Life was fun then, you could work hard and get ahead easy.
Love this guy, pure car enthusiast, will tinker with anything. Love the passion, and the dyno pulls. Keep it up
Stickers add 308hp!
Those big valves mad it a fire 🔥 breathing monster.
I owned a 65 K code mustang (rated at 271 BHP) and my Dad owned a '70 Boss 302 (rated at 290 BHP). My Dad (who was an old Ford guy and an Engineer out at Cape Canaveral in the 50's, 60's and 70's) and myself rebuilt and blue printed (align bored, decked, etc.) both engines and in stock form the 289 hipo pulled 282 BHP and the Boss 302 pulled 335 BHP. Neither engine was ported but both had angle cut valve jobs.
Ooooh!... A 1970 AAR 'Cuda. What a rare piece of Mopar history. A USAF buddy of mine had one back in the early 80's.
nick found the problem most would have got mad and left but he diagnosed it right good job nick
Nick: "A muscle car is a four seater with 2 doors." We, as owner of Olds 442 and TransAm 6.6 say: Yesss!
....then what's the difference between "a muscle car" and "a pony car"?
Growing up, my neighbor had a '67 tri power Corvette. That was more muscle car than sports car.
@@revolutionday1 a pony car is not a performance car. The Ford Mustang was designed to ba secretaries car not a race car. Ford hired Carroll Shelby to convert the Mustang into a muscle car. By 1970 they were making Ford factory muscle car Mustangs but Ford was pretty bad at tuning them. The Boss 429 Mustang in Street trim didn't have much more power than the Boss 302, none the less it was holding its own on the racetrack against race hemis and L88 big block Chevys. I don't know why Ford had so much trouble getting big block power on to the pavement but I now own a 1996 Ford Super Duty with a 460 which is the last version of the Ford big block and in stock trim it barely makes 200 horsepower but it's easily capable of at least four or five hundred naturally aspirated.
I don't want to bicker numbers with people and admittedly mind might be a little bit off I was just stating that I think there's more horsepower to be found in this engine.
The "muscle car" argument goes as far back as 1936 and the first Buick Century, which had a Special body with a Roadmaster engine.
@@redtorino I agree as well as the early Chrysler letter cars of the 1950s but I believe the phrase was actually created after the 1964 GTO was released , or more significantly when John DeLorean and his buddies at Pontiac took the 4-cylinder engine out of a 63 Tempest and stuffed a 421 super duty engine in it and realized it would run a 10 second quarter mile. He convinced Pontiac to let him put a 389 into the 64 year along with some appearance modifications and the Gran Turismo omologato was born or at least the American version as it was named after so very expensive Ferraris.
“Should not have flames”
I love watching Nick work in the dyno room!
Nick,
I love watching work being done in auto shops and machine shops alike. Being a retired mechanic/technician, I can't seem to just let it go, lol. I'm 70 years old now and I've been out of it since I was 57 and I miss it, but you help me out more than you know, I'm an avid fan of yours. Keep up the good work maybe one day I'll stroll into your shop. Thank's again for sharing.
I had a Distributor cap once on my 383 with 2 number 1s on it and wired it on the wrong 1 ' burned my eyebrows and hair 🔥
amazing mechanic
Nice job Nick! I ALWAYS like to see these Boss 302's running!
Had a 1987 f150 with a 302 boss in it it could pull a house down ,nice video,
Was probably not a boss
use a Ford coil on a Ford and put that ballast resistor back in the Mopar pile
Ford had a resistor wire on the + side . It was all in the late timing . Guy's used to adjust the lash while they ran and had oil deflectors on the rockers to prevent oil spillage . That engine sounds very solid to me . Ford put a 780 cfm Holley on a Boss 302 and a 735 cfm on the Boss 429 and 428 Cj's . You figure that one out ? The 780 ran a little better on the larger engines and the 735 was enough for the 302 . Great rebuild ! Did you find that the Forged TRW Ford pistons cracked like many did ?
Fords run a ballast resistor too but is built into the wire harness. It is the big fat pink wire in the harness. It only gives 12 volts to the coil when cranking.
all coils are the same
@@witnesszer0 No there not
@@edge2sword186 . I looked fast at the old pistons and they looked OK. They were .030 overbore.
Excellent CZcams channel, Nick!
I love your kind of no-nonsense expertise. Also it is great to see you mentoring the next generation engine builders and tuners.
My late friend used to race his '69 Bronco at the Sand Drags, mostly at Pacific City, OR. Sported a mild build Boss 302. Shift point was 10,000. Typically did the dash in 4.8 sec. Said he missed a shift once & the tach showed 12,000. Didn't bother the motor. The sand was still raining down at the start when he'd shut down. Spectacular rig, that he DROVE to the Races, pulling his Camp Trailer with the Paddle Tires inside. He had a pile of trophies.
That's a awesome BOSS 302. Nick your a great shop owner, still a hands on owner and mechanic. That's cool. I'm a Ford engine builder since 1968 and build MOPARS also but have about the same luck with my MOPARS as you do woth FORDS . lol. I finishing up a 62 Falcon build with a 68 302 naturally aspirated tunnel ram Holley duel quads 455hp on dyno. Actually a 306 nothing stock OEM except for the block. Love building engine's and car's way down here in Texas. Anyway love your videos Nick.
I'm actually surprised to see the horsepower starting to nose over even below 6,000 RPM. I thought these engine could pull better up top. I was expecting to see closer to 350 HP, had always heard they were underrated from the factory.
Ramblin. I thought the something. Especially with those big ports.
It’s means it’s was beautiful beat on ‘ no over Roy . To me it’s factory but there is 25 year plus what more do you want . It ran great
Big set of headers would have added a ton of power. Those big ports need to breath!
Nah I think a bigger cam, a set of valve springs, and a single plane would have got it there no problem.
@@truthliveshere831 : My almost-pure stock (crossflow muffler removed, using factory resonators for "noise control") 1969 BOSS 302 ran 13.75 at 104 mph at the old Dallas International Motor Speedway in Lewisvlle. Adding a set of "long tube" Hooker Headers and a pair of M&H Racemaster 7" slicks got it to 12.75 at 108+ mph at the same track, shifting it at 7,000 rpm and going thru the traps in 3rd gear (2.32 close-ratio T&C Top-loader trans w/3.91 rear gear) at 7,200. So "breathing" *is* a significant issue with the BOSS.
Nick, your love and respect for cars is second to none. Thank-you very much for sharing this!
Growing up my dad always had a Boss in the yard (He built and I always shared my bedroom with a Block). My favorite was his 69 Stang 429 that he would lay cash on the dash and told you to try to grab it, and then there was the 88 Tbird with a Boss 302 that he proved would outrun the police radios. It spent more time in my grandma's barn than at home 😂. He was also a 351C and 390 enthusiast. I miss those days and the time with him.
Nick just throws the coil in the trash. Your awesome man.🤣
Thanks for all your videos, Nick. I enjoy watching them.
i love that it is oK to be nostalgic about cars and muscle specifically. nick holding onto those stickers for 40 years sounds crazy but it sounds like something ID do
When a Ford distributor is in place correctly, the vacuum advance canister is pointing straight ahead. To start a Ford, pump the gas pedal once or twice then leave the throttle closed while cranking. That's the mine have started since I began working on them in 1976.
Windsor blocks with Cleveland tops, I love that combination always have !
Pretty much cheapest way to build a Cleveland, eh?
I was thinking timing chain off 1 cog! I did that on a Pontiac 400, sounded just like that! Glad you found the problem!
I had a boss 302 in a old mustang years ago. I’ve been a mechanic for 30 years and enjoy watching a real builder do the tune up with his ears and feel a lost art. Great job on the motors I see go through your shop top class.
Basically I’m saying nick is one of those guys you know are special.
It was obvious that the coil was the problem, after you trashed it, and put the old coil back on.
Good job Nick.
I can now swear in Greek. Great job nick
Nice!! Nick was sayin' dirty curse words. That Ford got him ticked off!
I have a 302 boss build, clevor 302. A 69 302 W block and 351 C heads.
An old build that sat in the 65 mustang from sanfran I imported.
Mine were upgraded with Roller cam some 20+ years ago. Sat for 20+ years but now it runs strong. Been driving it for about 3 years. Really dig theese 302 boss engines.
Its gonna be interesting to open the engine up this winter. Dont know much about it.
I don't mean to be negative with my comment about the defective coil. You are obviously supremely skilled with engines and cars.
Thanks for the great videos Nick! Your channel is always better than the cheesy car shows on tv.
I figured the plug wires were backwards.
As many times as we've rebuilt 289s and 302s we've still got a 50/50 shot of putting the wires completely backwards on the dizzy and it will do precisely what is seen here.
I've heard it so many times I can call it when listening to someone try to start it over the phone. Gotten pretty good at that over the years.
That viper is clean!!
Great job on the Boss! Nick, I had a 1971 Boss 351 Dan Gurney prepared Mercury Cyclone Spoiler and that engine also was a bugger to get tuned on spot! Thanks Again Nick!!!
When that engine sneezed I hope it didn't blow the power valves in the carb.
I was thinking the same exact thing. Holley power valves do not like backfiring
I would have probably stopped on that first severe backfire to see what was wrong. Not bragging, but after I got a little monkeying experience most of my engines start first time just like they they were all tuned and broke in.
Exactly. Set everything to factory specs and crank it over. It should start right up.
@@tommccarron324 Right and you can even put in a check valve to keep that from happening.
@@tommccarron324 . That is exactly what I did. Lucky me, the coil let me down.
Making mondays great again, had fun watching the "BOSS"👍like applied
It’s means it’s was beautifully run on its life ‘ no over Roy ever done I can tell . To me it’s factory but there is 25 year plus what more do you want . It ran great nick . Thank you for inviting us into what you do for a living . To some it means a lot
Absolutely my favorite show on CZcams , Nick really is the "Godfather"
Those Boss engines were very cool.
A Windsor bottom end with Cleveland heads a recipe for HP.
Especially a stroker 😉
Actually a boss 302 is a destroked 351 Cleveland.......nothing is interchangeable from the small block series engine......it is an intermediate series engine
@@michaelsmith9804 lolll Cleveland style alloy heads for windsor bottom ends are available.
And some people have adapted 4V closed chamber heads to windsor blocks.
On the Viper check the Gas Cap to make sure it aint making vacuume in the tank
I remember seeing those decals in the parts plant I hired in at on the shelf NOS 30yrs ago! I’ll bet they’re still there!
I'm a Ford N Dodge person, nothing wrong having two snakes like that. Have built many Ford motor's and raced them n stroked them also. I have a friend of mine that has the Viper v10 Truck, only thing that has happened one time is the head gasket was a lil weak so she had them changed out, got plenty of torque for sure. I been trying to get to to let me twin turbo it, but she like's it pretty much stock. Love watching your'e show Nick, I live in a lil town in Tennessee, love seeing ppl with the passion like I do working on these cars n Trucks. Thanks for sharing buddy!!
What attracted me to Nick's channel is that awesome Kowalski Challenger. It truly is coming together nicely, especially that correct gas cap and engine/transmission. Makes me want to watch Vanishing Point again! Thank you Nick for making one just like in the movie. I love the movie for the car!
And the girl on the dirt bike.. 😜
Yeah it's Nick and the crew This time they're working on a Boss 302. Project Kowalski coming on well but a car that big needs power steering you can tell. The pump n pulley were on the wrong offset If it went together like that the car would be a wreck luckily Nick remembered to check! 2nd pulley was bent Using stuff like that ain't gonna pay the rent So for straightening it got sent The pump is a bit of a lump hung on after market brackets Wrong angle for the pulley as per after market antics A new reservoir tank was what it was all about 4 hours work to find that all out A thousand million bits n bobs are what it takes to finish these jobs Sometimes getting the best parts is in the hands of the Gods. The owner of the Ford holds it in very high accord he had the engine bay wound back with a spray of satin black Now it looks ready to attack, Nick's Garage I highly rate it with a Cobra and a Viper perhaps it should be renamed the snake pit? The Boss 302 on the dynamo-meter sounds strong without even pushing the lever When it goes in the car at the lights it's gonna leave ya The engine is super rare so the owner has entrusted it into Nicks care Coz there ain't no spare I'd do the same if I was there So clean an engine like that is a car lovers dream Cheers Nick and the team!
Power steering is for girls. real muscle cars do not have it!! Heavy and robs power!!
Driving on a track or driving on the street are two different things You're argument is weak Power steering was an option from the factory DODGE know more than you actually
@@robertorhymes I repeat, power steering on a Muscle Car is girly. The extra weight and power loss makes a muscle car slower. As the belts and pulleys make them less reliable as well.. In period not that many were factory fitted.
@@ldnwholesale8552 DODGE know more than you Your attitude is poo Have you got nothing else to do? LDN The troll he has no self control Calling anything he doesn't like girly He's not very worldly. You wouldn't treat people like that on the street! You've already admitted you are wrong it's a sad sad song Didn't take very long. You don't get to define what a muscle car is You got yourself wound up into a tizz Over someone elses rhyming bizz I'm sittin here laughing drinking my fizz
Always enjoy your comments, Roberto.
I love watching this reminds me of me I'm older than him I started off on a junk yard I worked on a Rickenbacker few people heard of them that is the true boss 302 bottom of intake days buddy bar nick look to see u r old school I love it
Thanks Nick for bring the 302 Boss back to life. My Dad had a 1969 Boss 302 Ford Mustang.
Thumbs up to your film crew and narrator ,great content and music ,network quality.
The crew is the camera man, the editir, writer, director and tech. Props to him, and Nick and Vas.
Love the payphone.
.....right?!
ag. It works, without paying
Back watching over Old Shows again...love Nick's Garge...
A 650 holley 4777 and a 1" inch spacer under the carb would benefit the 302. Especially if the car is a stick.
the boss 302 came with a 780 cfm!
@@peteworman8254 It came with Clevo 4V heads too. All suited for Trans Am racing and nothing else. As a street engine with that big carb and heads they are horrid. Those heads are horrid on a 351 too. The reason everything aftermarket is far smaller, Even for racing!
My bro owned a brand new 70 Boss cougar Eliminator blue with flat black stripes,scoop,Hurst 4 spd.
rare machine..
Fantastic Nick!!! My Father-in-Law owned his own garage as well...fantastic mechanic...like you...he did it RIGHT!!! His only problems were the town he lived in...Yucaipa, Calif...old retiree's lived there and some would mess with his work...bringing it back to him with the complaint...it dont work right...Grrrr...but being a good man...He was also a Chrysler man...many stories from his vehicles...one was a 70 Dodge PU...he pulled the slant 6 out and put a 340 (Something about a purple cam) in it with in line O/D...wow...great combination...THANKS NICK...I am a fan!!!
@ 19:56 "ok, now you can fill it up, the gas". lolol i know some french/canadian guys and they talk like that when they speak english. "i went to the closet to get my toque, and there it was, gone" and "throw me down the stairs, my shoes". but that's cool. it always gives me a chuckle. love seeing a ford motor on the dyno. i'd love to see an inline 6 on the dyno. cheers.
That 302 looks good. Nice color combo, simple and sleek.
Gotta agree with ya Grizzly, the valve covers really made the blue 'pop'. This coming from a Chevy guy.
Ford blue is a great color, one of the best out of the muscle car era. Mopar guy here and I love Mopar big block turquoise, smallblock red, and Hemi Orange, but that deep Ford blue is a lot nicer than the pale Mopar smallblock blue. Duesenberg green was another fantastic color for an engine that really makes the aluminum parts pop.
@@stevelacker358 I also love the Buick green. I think the 455 is in like a steel green mist style color.
It's Ford Engine blue is All !.
Thanks Nick... I saw a guy blow one of these up one night, around 1970... he was drunk and his dad wasn't happy LOL
lol..!!
When I was a kid I knew were a 1970 Boss 302 engine and transmission were setting in the farm shop of one of our neighbors, It 12,168 miles on it because that's how many miles he car had when the farmer's son wrecked the car. He had no insurance so he pulled the engine and transmission, junked the rest and continued making his payments
I worked for Ford dealers in Fl for 14 years. My best build was 427 Cobra that I got to drive. OMG. Super times
I learn something new every video I watch. Nick is both the 'how' and 'why' mechanic.
I know how those fords can be a little picky I had a 69' cougar with a 351C but once you get them dialed in they run forever. Good video Nick Thank you
I also have a 69 Cougar with a 351, but mine is a Windsor. Didn't the Clevelands start in 1970?
@@sharkskinboy you are correct the 351C was a five year 70'-74' Engine . My car had a engine swap done right before I had bought it.
I had a 67 Cougar 390 GT, that I put big port 64 PI heads, Ford solid lifter cam and lifters, 3/8" moly pushrods, adjustable rockers, and the PI intake in, with a Holley 3310 (no suffix), and big-tube Hookers.
I don't know how old that phone is but it looks like it's from the 1940s public pay phone that's fantastic
I had a 1963 ..221 ford V8 ..that was a screamer at 7000 rpm .used in oval quarter mile dirt track ..later they become 260 Cid ..then 289 Cid...then 302 cid
My friend, who works at a dodge dealership says, "if you can fix a dodge, you can fix anything". Good job !!!!👍👍👍👍👍
So the problem with the Ford was because of an aftermarket non-Ford part. That's the way it always goes, or so it seems.
Matt. That is correct. The Ford engine was all good.
There was nothing wrong with the coil, did the exact same thing after being changed. Still wouldn't crank until they advanced the timing where it should have been to start with.
nick I liked the way you got rid of that coil, good job done. right on for Boss ford.