GR-Research XLS Encore Speakers & Speaker Cables Arrived ! AND The PLAN is...
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- čas přidán 2. 07. 2022
- My initial impressions of the GR-Research XLS Encore DIY Kit speakers and checking if the AliExpress Speaker cables VS GR-Research Speaker Cables.
Links for your reference (Non-affiliate)
GR-Research XLS Encore: gr-research.com/product/x-ls-...
GR-Research DIY speaker cables: gr-research.com/product/24-st...
Aliexpress Speaker cables: www.aliexpress.com/item/10050...
Related videos:
Danny at GR-Research made a video and it Is Elitist and Delusional: • Danny at GR-Research m...
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My Daily Components (All Tested And Proved To Work in Blind Tests)
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Speaker stands I use (budget): amzn.to/3ssRhI3
Desktop Speaker Stands I Use: shop-links.co/chofc1R7mpT
acoustic panels I use: ua-acoustics.com/
acoustic curtain: amzn.to/31d1zAM
my fav hifi tweaks: (Isoacoustics devices) amzn.to/3j5FGvM
Speaker Isolation Feet I Use: shop-links.co/choffy3csSK
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#hifi #audiophile #diyspeaker - Zábava
Links for your reference (Non-affiliate)
GR-Research XLS Encore: gr-research.com/product/x-ls-encore/
GR-Research DIY speaker cables: gr-research.com/product/24-strand-diy-audiophile-speaker-cable/
Aliexpress Speaker cables: www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001933248840.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.0.0.21ef1802i6K7JE
Related videos:
Danny at GR-Research made a video and it Is Elitist and Delusional: czcams.com/video/zxlUYfpxNMY/video.html
Jay I consider you one of the most important audio reviewers for two reasons. You are young and you took the time to listen to a very large sample of high end and vintage gear before you really ramped up your review channel. Most reviewers at any age have relatively small sample sizes of the gear they have actually listen to. They don't know what they don't know. As a 60 year old audio guy I think it's critical to high end audio that younger enthusiast like yourself carry this forward. But I would suggest your read on Danny was misplaced. He basically invited all camps to join him and see were it would lead. Sure it came off as arrogant but when you get older you find less time to sugar coat your thoughts. When I look at the room treatments, good quality speaker stands, audio platforms and other things you are using it would seem to me that you and Danny are totally aligned. So why would Danny send his cable or speakers to some reviewer that did not believe any of these things matter. Yet you interpreted his bluntness as a personal insult. This also seems to be motivating you to hyper scrutinize any claim GR makes at a level you don't seem to do with any other manufacturer.
@@theaterboyeBay thanks for the comment. I do not have any intentions to hyper criticize anything. I just wish to thoroughly check the claims as I am personally interested. Many are also curious as Danny does put out many claims out there. I told Danny in an email that I will be fair in the assessment of his product and he said that he trusted me to do just that. I have no interest in betraying that trust and the trust of the viewers JUST to discredit or take a shot at Danny.
I’m here for audio and I will stay true to that fact and passion.
Thanks !
@@Jayiyagi Watched a bunch of Jay's reviews. Was anticipating this one, having actually heard a cheap (non upgraded) sample. Best speaker ever?!? No not exactly. Super impressed for the parts and price. Yes hard to beat.
After the podcast and back and forth, this introduction and feedback in the comments is not surprising. What I believe stands out to people that have seen Jay in action is that he is overly eager to find avenues to discredit GR's creation. Measuring the purity of the connection, getting the accuracy through 3rd parties. I'm all for it, but he has not ever come close to considering doing this to his retail reviews (nor the CSS)
It feels like you got the horse before the carriage and now you try to save face. If you would have only have approached this initial view as all your videos.... Hard to go back from here..
Danny is an A$$ calling people out. He comes across very arrogant, but clearly provides great value for Sound in the DIY market. With Jay coming in hurt and tainted does not help anyone.
@@mr.t.7477 GR Research makes a lot of claims including the connectors’ purity. If CSS Audio made the same claims or something similar - I would have been interested to check it out.
I have no interest in discrediting GR-Research.
And I am doing a Blind A/B precisely for people like you that are on the fence about me coming in “tainted” or “biased”
Cheers.
What’s the difference between an elitist and an expert? What did Danny say that was delusional?
I have recently gotten into designing and building my own speakers and I like learning as much as I can on the subject. What I don’t care about is “drama”, so I really appreciate you taking a professional approach to this review. For people like me, a speaker I get to build myself is actually a good thing, not a bad thing. I get for others that it is definitely a bad thing to have to build the speaker, but I like to be able to make things my own (picking my own paint color or wood finish).
A direct comparison for a kit of this expense is the CSS Criton TD-1.
Thx Jay, looking forward to part two!
Thanks for the video Jay. I look forward to the blind A/B testing and the measurements. I like the test plan and look forward to your honest opinion. It's nice to see someone willing to put their personal feelings aside and let the speaker and the numbers/traces fall where they may. I must admit I own a pair of XLS Encores mainly because I like the way they sound and I like building myself when I can. I am interested in the comparison between the CSS Audio 1TDX crossover to Danny's. I know Danny's Encore is a DIY point-to-point lay it out yourself crossover. Not necessarily the easiest task for the non-technical guys. Haven't seen the CSS but I am curious. Glad you are feeling better. Keep the videos coming and I'll keep watching.
honest ?
Peerless / Vifa / Scanspeak have been making great performing and cost effective speakers drivers for a long time. The 1st set that I built 51 years ago used a 5" Peerless mid-woofer and a Audax dome tweeter and had not one of my kids decided that the domes should be flat I would probably still be using them. My 75 year old ears that spent 15 months on an M60 main battle tank are not that discerning and anything above 12,000 hz is fiction to me. The quality (not good or bad) of sound that I prefer comes from soft dome tweeters and paper woofers. I can't wait for the review.
Thank you for your service brother. RVN,70-71-72.
@@gotchagoing8843 - Same to you brother, Hoo Yaa
I thought peerless were some of the best in the business. I have a set of ne 180 woofers that were designed by the same people that did the scan speak woofers. They feel light because they use neodymium magnets. Very light but extremely strong magnets.
I’m with you, my $16k speakers use Audax 1.5in soft dome tweeters Scanspeak titanium super tweeters and paper woofers , exceptional sounding. I don’t think Jay realizes the quality drivers these companies actually make and probably many speakers he’s liked used those brands. Keep on keeping on brother , 20yr US Army Retired.
Hey brother, love the tank guys. 5th SFG
Jay, this investigative approach is fantastic. This is a great direction to go in. I look forward the findings. Keep up the good work!
Hope he does it with all the speakers he reviews!
@@five5ix56 Ah! that's the concern, why with these speakers when he has not done this with any other bookshelf speakers that he has reviewed.
Well they have become mates, so we will see. The cables won’t make any difference, so he can not bother with them. Send them straight back.
@@cruise2023 correction. I have
@@r423sdex So you don't believe either Jay or his camera man when they said they heard a distinct improvement with the GR cables?
Good on you Jay for appproacing this review with such an open mind! Respect.
I have been building audio gear as a hobby for quite some time, I have built the XLS Encores and like you I found the drive construction to be underwhelming especially the woofer. Regardless of that they do fit my ear as well. They are very clear and the detail is very good. I think what makes them is the tweeter. It is very crisp and clear but not fatiguing. I would really like to see better quality drivers but hey they sound good and they do the job so that's all that matters.
Look forward to your next vid on these.!!
Hi Jay Love your Chanel, I have used the Ali-express cables for a while and did a small video about them on my Chanel Something must be wrong with these Cables some possibilities to check
1) Mislabeled polarity
2) Not all the strands are soldered in the termination sometimes they are sloppy. I suggest cutting the banana plugs out and use the bare wire
3) A bad example of Ali-express cable check that each strand is about 0.75 mm in diameter (0.03 inch) the total of each 12 strands (not 24) bare copper should be 3.5mm. (0.14 inch)
Each strand should be made of multiple thin strands not solid
4) Bad connection with the speakers not tight enough accidental polarity swap.
5) May be stuffing the cable with a rope ( like GR shows how to do it) , does make a difference I would try that at the end.
Very Curious how it goes I would really hate to have to buy his Cables we must find the secret :)
I love this. thank you for doing it this way!
Very good video! Thanks Jay :)
Still pretty happy with the CopperColour you recommended a little ways back. My money will be on the CSS over the GR but interested to see the blind test. Thanks Jay!
I had built GR-Research NX-Studio with all the Crossover upgrades (I upgraded the Mills to Path Audio Resistors). After 300hrs of running...these are Opening up really nicely. The tube connecters I had trashed as they had corrosion inside of female end. I used WBT Binding Posts and to be frank...$60 Tube Connecters look and are built like $10. Enjoy your review and keep it going!!!
We have not seen that before. If that is the case you could have sent them back and had them replaced. Using the WBT's was a hit to the performance compared to what you would have gotten with the tube connectors.
@@dannyrichie9743 Please post test data to support your claim about "a hit to performance"
Woofer weight is a myth.
Some manufactures ADD weight to their woofers (especially rampant in car audio). In reality, if the woofer is well designed and the materials are well chosen, the weight is not often relevant, not like people assume. Big magnets are like big car engines: something already went wrong when you need excess power. Make your car (or speaker) lighter, and you can get around the track faster (accelerate faster).
Woofers don't take corners. You can only make an rough analogy to acceration and braking. Reality is that motor strength is very important, especially in the woofer of a 2-way speaker that is tasked with handling some deep bass and thus making some pretty deep excursions.
Nice work, Jay. I enjoyed watching your review, especially about the speaker cables as I have been waffling on purchasing these. I spent much more money on cables which I like but I think I will buy a pair of these now. thanks
this is good stuff I'm anxious to see the results and the full on review
You'll do the industry & CZcams audio channels a great service if you indeed complete the tests & comparisons you mention in this video. So eager to see & hear the findings. Great video!
I built my GR-Research cables. First point it was a fun project. 2 They sound great. End game for speaker cable for me.
Great job Jay, I love that you embrace the scientific method!
I really appreciate the way you handled the "Danny situation."
Just to let some of the commenters know that the speaker cable is a kit and will be less than half the price posted if you assemble yourself. The price posted includes professional assembly thus getting to that price.
Ok, I watched the whole thing twice. Good job Jay. Overall a fair initial first impression. I am glad you are able to put aside personal issues and just stick to the sound! I have enjoyed your reviews, especially of the Doge gear! Cheers and happy Canada Day from Northern California. 😁
I think the simpler reason that Danny doesn't measure below 200Hz is pragmatic: in order to eliminate room reflections the measurement software takes maximum 5ms "slices" of sound, which means that anything lower that that frequency can't be measured as you're not even capturing a full wave. As far as I know anyway.
The main reason is in room response will be entirely based on your room. To measure below 200hz you need anechoic/outdoor/spinorama measurements
Look at those beautiful solid steel speakers stands in the back, they’re so beautiful but expensive.
If you ever want to hear the rest of Danny's lineup, you are welcome to stop by if you are ever in New-Brunswick. I have upgraded X-statiks, X-Voce center, AVR surrounds, sealed sub for HT and a pair of fully upgraded NX-Oticas with a pair of triple OB subs.
How are x-statiks? They look crazy but amazing! My worry is that you need to pull them out 3 ft minimum right? I'd love to hear your opinion of those speakers, cheers. Frank
Hi Jay, im ordering Tecton Troubadours soon and will be ordering along with them the Mogami speaker cables that Tecton offers along with these cool speakers. Thanks for all these fantastic reviews.
Celebrate freedom! 🍁
Love your brothers and sisters.
Nothing is impossible when we work together.
So glad to see you give your honest opinion (not that I didn't expect you to - but very commendable). I really like both your channels and I don't like seeing Mommy and Daddy fight. Much respect!
That's interesting about the cables, sounds like a fun diy project.
About the speaker cables: It's either the connectors or the core. GR uses a thick rope as a core to stretch the cable and make individual wires cross at a larger angle. Lefthand rule: less interference. Put a rope core in the Aliexpress cable, change the connectors over and find out.
You’re right, although I understand that Danny slides a PTFE tube as a core. This is available from aliexpress and adds about 20% to the cost of the cable overall. I know because I did it. No idea how mine sound against the GR Research cables, obviously, however, my cables were a significant upgrade over my old plain copper cables.
The higher gauge wires almost always sound as if the sound was fuller and a bit more bass wass added. It's not night and day difference, but it's noticeable. The same thing happens when someone upgrades crossover inductors in the woofer circuit from 16ga to say 12ga, but even 14ga inductor with it's 60% impedance of the 16ga makes a measurable difference during freq sweep on woofer's connectors. Generally the total series impedance of wires and crossover shouldn't be more than 15% of the woofers impedance.
You forgot about the copper: The best is Pure OFC. The Aliexpress cable are probably made of cheaper copper mixed with other metal(s). Insulating material is probably different too.
@@guyboisvert66 I have some on the way and it is better than OFC copper, it is OCC copper. Those cables sure look thicker than I'd prefer, but i'll see. I have 10-gauge right now and I don't want to go any lower. It was hard to do the math to figure out what gauge these Ali's were and the seller could not convert the size for me either... I had the 24 core.
erm that is not at all a thing at this low frequencies. but ok. sounds really interesting.
A lot of electrical cable made in China is aluminium based with copper plating. Of course, on must remember that high frequency is conducted on the surface of a conductor and if the Chinese cable only have a few microns of copper plate over the conductor then obviously the character will be a lot different to a solid copper cable. Chinese wire is also mostly hard drawn, which is different than an annealed copper or a single crystalline cable. So yes you are correct in saying a cable is not the same if its construction and material used is not the same, at higher frequencies this does come into play.
Luckily the majority of speaker cable isn’t copper clad
Regarding the woofer driver frame material: it's composite because its 1) mechanically stiff 2) light and 3) non-resonant. Oh, and it doesn't ring, which is probably it's most important attribute. Personally, I don't understand the concern of _what_ something is made of; what matters is _how_ it functions. I'll just add that F1 cars are composite as well. Regarding the cables, one can't draw informed conclusions of a speaker cable simply from what it looks like, the quality of the materials, it's geometry (how it's wound) and the....dielectric (insulator) matter also, and, most importantly all these factors _interact,._ just as Time and Temperature often interact as factors in a chemical reaction. The Ali Express cables likely use PVC for the insulator, which has a notably negative impact on sound qualty, the best-sounding dielectric material is FEP (not Teflon). Again, what matters at the end of the day is how it *functions* (i.e., how it sounds). Regarding the tube connectors, not only is it important they are made of pure copper, but low mass as well. Danny's products are very well thought-out with respect both functionality, but also they're designed to _maximize_ interactions that contribute to functionality and sound quality and _minimize_ deleterious interactions that impact sound quality. The issues I see with almost ALL reviewers* is they approach product functionality from a very simplistic frame of reference: that is, single factors by themselves are responsible for functionality (in this case, audio quality), without giving any consideration to the fact that design factors, materials, and control variables often _interact._ I can tell you that as someone who spent 40 years working as a professional scientist and 10 years as a Design for Six Sigma Master Black Belt, this overly simplistic perspective/viewpoint of single factors, functioning independently by themselves, is almost *never* how the REAL WORLD *works.* (*-they also don't perform any statistically valid measurement systems analysis [MSA], either, in fact, they don't even know what MSA is, but that's a story for another day).
Well this should be fun. Wishing you a full recovery asap.
Hi Jay, yes Danny could have worded his video with a bit less intensity , but I get what he was saying in regards to a good room to let one hear a speaker to it’s fullest . My old loft in Montreal was a great sounding room and a mid hi system sounded better than hi end in a small bad room. System was, Vandersteen 5, vtl 150 power amp, Aesthetix preamp and more. Thanks for sharing you listening experience.
Dude, you really should spend some time on the DIY forums, and read the books and magazines for DIY'ers, learn what's what.
Ask Danny what rope to buy at your local home center and thread it thru your Ali Express cable, see if that makes them more sonically equal to the GR-R cable. It should. With a braided or twisted cable, the closer to 90º X intersections of the braid strands and the more air (space) between strands the better the sound will be, that is the reason for Danny threading rope thru the center of his cable.
Re Tube Connecters. I feel Danny didn't tell you the whole story. it's not just that they are pure copper (pure Silver would be better), plenty of pure copper binding posts on the market, it is the lack of metal that makes them good. Minimal metal will be better than a huge chunk of machined copper binding posts. Think WBT Nextgen, and Eichmann binding post. Also, you're wasting your time with the jeweler, if Danny says they are pure copper believe him. If you want to nitpick send it to a metallurgist for grain structure and purity testing.
Anyway, they say nothing good happens between 2am and 7am, and it's almost 4am now so that's all you're going to be getting out of me on this, I don't feel like proofreading and backing up statements with the science behind them at this hour, sorry.
Peace.
Good knowledgeable advice here.
THERE THEY ARE !!!!!
Amir from Audio Science Review should measure Danny’s cables without them plugged in and tell us why they sound better than AliExpress cables.
Hahahaha, that's about as good as his other testing methods and his "reviews", LOL.🤣🤣🤣
Testing equipment can't hear sonic quality.
If there is a massive difference between those cables, a measurement system will surely pick it up. I would love to see what's really going on here.
absolutely nothing
@@hurkamur1 that’s some compelling evidence you’re presenting there.
I would love to hear your thoughts of these compared to CSS audio’s products.
Paradigm Founders bookshelves are just absolutely stunning. Indeed they are truly a very special speaker. I’ve got founders paired with an Anthem MRX 740 and it is a match made in heaven. Just rewires my entire HT with Kimber 8PR which I admittedly wasn’t sure I was going to hear a difference. I was very wrong and the founders sound completely different with the Kimber Kable and I didn’t think they could sound any better. Can’t wait for your review of them!
Ok when are we going to see a comparison to the CSS Criton 1TD-X? You've given very high praise to the Criton in the past. I bought the Criton kit based on your review and a few others. I have not built them yet but am looking forward to it.
I finished my Criton 1TDX (with x-over upgrade) about 2 months ago and they continue to impress with every listen! They are all of what Jay has already said. I think the Encore’s are going to be less meaty in the bass texture and a bit more challenging to assemble for the novice. That CSS kit is just fantastic for the beginner. The soldering is very easy to understand and the box is easy to build! Good luck with yours!
When your camera guy described the difference in sound, the increase in bass and presence, it sounded exactly like someone describing an out of phase speaker connection. Might want to make sure the cable ends are labeled correctly, they might be getting hooked up backwards.
Good point. I am particularly good at depicting out of phase but I will do further tests. Thanks !
The wires are color coded so labeling incorrectly is not an issue on both ends.
Great review
There shouldn't be much of a difference between measuring with MLS software or measuring in an anechoic chamber. MLS removes the reflections, the size of the room determines the time window and therefore the lowest possible frequency one can measure without reflections. The frequency lies somewhere between 200 - 350hz (depending on room size), which is low enough for designing proper cross-over circuits. Most stuff below 200hz can be simulated quiet well since the cabinet's "shape" doesn't interfere that much with these low frequencies. I use this method for all of my designs.
I know there's some negativity around GR Research and I know Danny can be pretty direct in his communication but I must say that I agree with a lot of what he has to say.
Btw. I have experience with designing loudspeaker for about 35 years, I've build stuff for home audio, studio monitors and instrument / PA loudspeakers.
You’re one of the few reviewers that I, me, personally myself have heard that like the Paradigms. 🤷🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️
They aren’t exactly up my alley in preference but they do some things very interesting
Shows how we can watch the same video and comprehend different things.
He didn't say he like the speakers. He said it's unique.. Unique doesn't mean like.
Happy Canada Day Jay!
Another Great video Jay! Great response to Danny's video which I did not appreciate. It was elitist and unnecessary. And I don't appreciate smugness in an audio review either. We certainly don't all agree but we all are in it to share, learn and improve our sound. Love the Ali-express bit too. I find their cables are interesting because them imitate name-brand manufacturers but don't quite get the subtleties. Because they are inexpensive and varied, they are also useful to study sound signatures of cables (even power cables) especially when throwing authentic name brand cables in the mix.
The approach you are taking on this review is nice. It’s good to see you are giving Danny Ritchie and GR Research a fair shot. They have been around for a long time, and they are very knowledgeable on everything that can impact the signal path and sound. I look forward to your review of their speaker and cable comparison against Blue Jeans, which I currently use.
I have 15' blue jeans cables which I swapped out for 7' cables (another reputable man.) and the thing I noticed was a bit less extension/emphasis in the treble. Not big but I noticed and I live with it. Didn't note any difference in lows-mids.
Great job!
I built a set of these speakers big brother... x statics. They're amazing
Nice vid. I really favor the A to B blind comparisons. It may seem harsh but ultimately we all want to know what's best and who we can depend on for quality products. I don't listen to music in a chamber so I don't care about that. I'm more interested in how they sound in your day to day listening room.
I like this video. Jay is going to be a genuine detective. Look forward to seeing if the Blue Jeans are as good as GR-Research cables.
The Bluejeans speaker cable sounds like junk even compared to high strand count bloody Amazon basics zipcord because it's a low strain count cheap copper cable with very high capacitance that was not even designed for audio use.
I dun see the plywood cabinet option in GR research website, is it a custom made one?
The connectors and the damping from the added core that Danny adds.....can make all the difference in the world. Remove the connectors from the Ali cables and twist all the bare wires together and cram them in the jacks on the amp and speaker......it will sound worlds better.....then put the same core into the middle of the cables and listen again. Not saying the wire is identical.....but if it is.....connectors and damping can make a ton of difference.....everything makes a difference.
The speaker cable part of this was very interesting.
Why? Anyone that tells you speaker cables can't sound different hasn't spent any critical listening time and has limited experience in this hobby.
Would love to see a video on the diysg helix! And compare them to the xls encores and css criton. Price wise they are in the middle, but have a 7" woofer like the critons as well as the impressive reported bass frequency response.
You should start out the review video talking like Danny: "Hey, Everrrbody!"
How did you A/B the speaker cables? I thought you mentioned that Danny's Tube Connectors are not compatible with regular binding posts, so how did you connect them to the other speakers?
By using the Tube connectors like spades
I didn't realize that the tube connecters on the cables work with the banana plugs on the speaker. That's kind of cool that they work with both
Gregory, tube connectors do not work as bananas, diameter is different. When you order you get the male for the cable and the female for the speaker.
With some binding posts, the male ends will a little tight, or loose, depending on tolerances. But generally speaking, tube connectors are close enough to bananas be able to be compatible in either direction.
@@michaelperry3578 What about the amplifier end? How do fit tube connectors into the binding posts on the amp?
@@benpatana7664 You don't. If you look at Jay's cables it has spade connectors for the amplifier end. Makes you wonder why you need tube connectors at all then, doesn't it?
Jay; I did the same thing I was already using the GR Research 24strand cables and loved them but saw the Aliexpress cable on eBay and ordered them out of curiosity, they sounded ok to good but I did change the terminations to rhodium connectors, that improved them, still not as good as GRR but I was going to try using cotton rope like GRR to see if that made any gain unless you want to try it first Lol
VH Audio CHeLA DIY Speaker cables may be worth a try. Excellent materials, similar braid, except using solid core strands.
All of those Litz braid cables are solid core from my experience.
you did a really good review and like most things audio. there are subjective preferences. speaker designers as long as i have been alive have tried to maximize the inexpensive driver. i just have never personally heard one that really impresses me and i am familiar with that woofer. when you put the power down the problems always show up. my current favorite $1k bookshelf is the dynaudio emit 20. great drivers. basic crossover and reasonable box but the drivers deliver even when pushed to their physical limit
I would like Danny to design an open baffle large dual 10" speaker kit like Sapphire M3's for under 1000" :)
Very nice video! Regarding cables, I don't know what they do to their cables, but the ones i got had massive interference, and the dialetic material was noticeably awfull. If I can make a sugestion, chop the cable ends, put inside a cotton rope like gr research does and use without terminals, because from my experience they are bloody awfull.
I still have Paradigm Titan V6 stand mount speakers and they sound great!! Im not sure about Danny with his constant twitching, itching, eye darting during his videos. Reminds of a fast talking used car salesman.
Happy Canada Day!
Also how did you connect the cables?
So you said a tube connection and a banana plug are different in size, in your video, how did you plug the GR cables into a paradigm speaker then?
By using the tube connector just like spades
I mean you've had top notch cables crazy ass cables on the channel before. So how's the GR cable compare to those. Do you still have them to check?
Great video Jay. But beware of one important fact: the Miflex KPCU caps which Danny used in this crossover, do need a extreme long burnin time to really shine. I've also used the same caps in the crossover of my Kef Reference, and they are great! But let them run for at least 600 hours...
A very good Friend of mine also bought the same XL-S Encore speakers with the upgraded crossover. After a extensive burnin time, they are fantastic. Very open and with great layering of the soundstage.
I hope you enjoy them too,
Kind regards,
Nico den Haak.
600 hundred hours to sound right? Crazy times man... Your ears do also adjust as familiarity increases, like with anything that becomes more familiar. In other words your hearing system also "burns" in.
@@gregorymorrill7558 i think it's the second option when it comes to burning in, meaning the brain gets more familiar with new sound. If someone claims other burning, then I suggest change of pills ;)
Cap burn in....thats great
Capacitors need burn in time to really shine....🤣🤣🤣 Sorry my guy but you are a fool. Please show or post test/measurements showing caps sound different after XXX amount of hours. I'll wait.
I look forward to your comparison with blue jean and other commercial cables. I was thinking to buy the GR research cables to replace my DIY cables and am interested in your impressions.
So were those cheaper cables fully broken in?
GR Research is making a minimum of $700 per pair of these speakers. The markup is insane.
Ha, guess again. We work off of really low margins and high volume.
The guy at GR designs great crossovers
Are you sure that polarity markings on the cheaper cables was correct? Had someone fitted a red connector on the end of one core and a black connector on the other end of the same core? Is it possible that as a result your speakers were out of phase?
would be great if you could review a higher end diy speaker such as troels gravesen kit.
The cables use the same wires but the difference is the thicker core on the GR Research cables force the conductors to cross each other at 90 degrees. which minimizes their electrical interaction with each other.
What’s the diameter of the cotton rope GR uses?
You mentioned that the tube connector from GR are larger than banana plugs.
How did you connect them effectively to the Paradyms for your cable comparison?
Thanks
Hey. I connected the tube connectors the same way I would connect a spade.
Jay, as far as the tube connectors go it’s not just about the copper. Danny is making a point about removing mass from the connections especially if that mass is brass or worse, magnetic material.
I thought the reason manufacturers didn’t use pure copper connectors was that they are subject to oxidation over time that would degrade the connection at some point.
@@donalddietz4755 they're gold plated. but if you cut/file into them, they're made from copper.
@@donalddietz4755 pure copper is an excellent conductor, however it makes for a poor (traditional) connector. It is not very springy, so it is easy to deform the material. For a pure copper banana, it's so soft that (depending on the design) it can easily lose the pressure required for a quality connection. Tube connectors design their way around this limitation. This is why most bananas are brass (more springy) or even steel (gold covered even).
Brass and copper will oxidize in normal humidity, so unless you want to frequently de oxidize / clean them it's a good idea to add a more stable surface. A thin gold or rhodium plating shouldn't do much damage to tge electrical qualities, so I suspect/assume that the tubes from Danny are gold plated as well.
@@donalddietz4755 copper but gold plated.
@@donalddietz4755 What causes copper to oxidize are oyxgen atoms in the copper metal. Extremely pure, oxygen-free, copper does not oxidize.
The way a speaker looks matters. I understand too that appearance can have some subjectivity. These speakers are so cheaply designed though from an astheatic perspective. The design (astheatic design) is part of the quality and skill of speaker design. Even if it is over priced by many manufacturers, at least they understand the importance of that aspect of the product. It may make no technical difference on the sound but it can make a difference on how the speaker makes you feel. And in turn, how you feel about the sound. This may not be true for everyone but I think it is for many.
I want that pair of Founder's 40 for our event end August in Phoenix.
Let's see if you can consistently differentiate between the two cables in a blind A/B test. That is the only test that can be truly taken as credible and significant.
Up and coming for sure. This was just an initial impression
@@Jayiyagi Jay, thanks for the very informative video. I am really interested to see the results of your A/B test. To provide as much information as possible I would also like to know if there is any measurable electrical difference between the two cables at the speaker terminals associated with the sonic differences. Please don't just pre-suppose there will be no measurable difference. If there is a measurable difference, that would be most informative. If there is no measurable difference that would be very interesting.
Haven't heard Danny's cable but they are teflon jacketed, costly & a big advantage.
Well, guy's much to my disappointment it appears that the wire is actually jacketed in polyethylene not Teflon or PTFE as stated in his video. I'm sure they sound great as Jay stated but in the end, Teflon is a superior product when it comes to the jackets.
Do you still have the Buchardt S400 MkIIs to include in your comparison?
I purchased a pair of Paradigm Persona B. Truly unique, beryllium
Jay
Celebrate Canada one year with a pair of Reference 3A speakers - think they are great and don’t get enough exposure
Great review Jay. Personally I think Vincent just like the SF sound than the XLS Encores. For sure both sound really good but it depends on the persons taste on sound. I’ve demoed SF with other brands like B&W and monitor audio with my own flac songs in a music store and the SF sounded better to me. Don’t need an AB blind test I can tell the difference just by listening on all of them. I would love to hear and experiences both speakers but that would be impossible because Jay is the only person who has both. 😀
Could you cut the end of the cheaper cables and run bare wire or get better connectors to see if there is a difference?
24 strands of wire to strip and twist together per end..lots of work but a great idea.
Jay, are you using a preamp with the Luxman M900U ? If so which one?
Also curious
Aliexpress cables is cheap brass connector and lead solder that's why, i changed mine to tellurium and silver solder, difference immediately boosted everything. IACS conductivity is never wrong in audio.
Yup jay should change the connector from the aliexpress cable, and make new insulation in the aliexpress cable.
Yeah that will definitely liven them up.
As of yesterday, I completed the transition from a long used, and well known highly reviewed company's interconnects , power cords and speakers with Ali-E Odin. All in, less than the MSRP of the speaker cables alone. No comparison, even with minimal break-in
Ali Link?
I've toyed with the idea of the Ali-(Nordost) Odin interconnects and even the flat speaker cables considering how much they cost. Thanks for the "review".
how do the GR cables and the ali cables measure as far as resistance/capacitance/inductance? something seems fishy about the aliexpress. i'd love to see a number that can be correlated with the cable and why it might sound different.
did they do the cable comparison video yet? can someone name the video?
Jay? Did you burn in the Aliexpress speaker cables before you did any serious comparative listening? I noticed you didn't say. But, some of use would like to know if the cables were burned in first (in my experience about a week's worth of playing before any serious listening).
oooh blind test. exciting
I still roll my eyes when someone says "you should measure the cable" like they're going to be able to measure the improved separation and depth between instruments and larger more 3D soundstage. Do cables matter? Not to the guy with a $350 dollar receiver, entry level speakers and a closed mind! But some people just want to be right, they have no real interest in trying things and improving their system. Thank you for the honest review Jay, keep the great videos coming!
At least someone figured it out. The only goal of the cable deniers is to make an argument. It has nothing to do with music or the equipment its played on. The argument is the goal. If you want to see something unbelievable, I figured out a way to shut them down. So far its worked 100% of the time. Just ask them this simple question. "What should be measured, and why?". That's it. Stops them dead in their tracks every time. I've asked this exact same question literally hundreds of times, and they refuse to answer it.
@@AT-wl9yq Measure the signal at beginning of cable and end of cable. Cables can degrade the sound due to improper use, but cables that measure the same will not improve the sound. What should be measured and why? Voltage, resistance, capacitance. Low-Q resonances of 0.3 dB magnitude can be audible. So no, there is no shutting down, it just sounds like you don't understand the physics or the measurements or how they relate to sound. If you want more proof, use an Audio Analyzer to measure Level, FR, THD + N, Phase, Crosstalk, SNR. Use a digital scope with rise time in ns. Whether one measurement sounds better than the other doesn't make any difference, as that is different for every single person. How electrons move through conductors should be taught to everyone. But I know, science is a bitch and not understanding is even easier. BTW open up all of your electronics and look at the interconnects inside. How do you think it's even remotely possible to get good sound out of those without fancy wires? Maybe do some reading on Bill Whitlock's papers.
Jay,
First of all, thanks for your continued efforts and sharing your fingings with us. This is all very interesting. Can you provide the contact for the cabinet shop that you used for the GR Research build? I want to have a pair of cabinets made from birch ply as you have done here. Also, have you given any thought of trying the JBL 4309 2-way horn loaded bookshelf monitor?
Thanks again...take care and get well.
Best regards, John
I like where you’re going with this. Meet a manufacturer where they are coming from, not to be combative but to be fair.