The Early Church DID NOT Teach The Trinity! (Origen)
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May Allah SWT reward you brother and make your Journey easy in this world and the here after AMEEN.
What I like about your content is that you do serious research and engage with them about the foundations of their religion without using logical fallacies against them , in order to make a profit from the Internet like some of them do . Rather, you actually have a passion for what you research, study, and present to others.
Agreed 👍
I remember way back when ur channel was around 9K subscribers. Now you’re about to break 100K mashallah 🤩. May Allah reward you brother for all your hard work.
He should change his channels name to inspiring hypocrisy 😂
No, Inspiring heresy
Exposing hypocrisy
The Trinity is truly a Mystery
: an unknown Bible Author
LOOOOOL
"God is not the author of confusion" -Bible itself
Subhanallah Alhamdulillah Allah-u-akbar
14:01 brother you named the wrong book, it's actually "The Unity of Christ: Continuity and Conflict in Patristic Tradition" by Christopher A. Beeley starting at page 26
may Allah reward you, thank you for the effort
Great information as usual brother, have you seen "the letters of James & jude"? Very interesting and revealing
جزاك الله خيرا brother
Beautiful work Jake
May Allah help you through the dabate brother jake
These debate is waste of time
@@koplak9809 If Qur'an is false and Muhammed is a liar. How did he predict in (Surah Rum 30:1-4) that the Romans would be defeated and after their defeat they will overcome and become victorious? How did he know that a decade before it happened and not just that he also predicted that the Romans would be defeated in the "lowest land on earth".
Byzantine and Persian Empires went to war and Byzantine suffered defeat when Damascus and Jerusalem both fell to the Persian Empire.
This area is near the Red Sea which is the lowest point on Earth. At over 400 meters below the ses level.
He also predicted that the bear footed Bedouins will one day complete in making the tallest buildings and hundred years ago Dubai was nothing more then a 🏜️ desert land.
"And you will see barefoot naked poor shepherds/Bedouins vying with one another in the construction of tall buildings…”
(Sahih Muslim, Hadith)
"The poor people of the Deserts will suddenly become wealthy and begin boasting about their buildings”
(Al Minhaj)
And not just that, he also predicted in Hadith (Sahih Muslim) Arabian peninsula will grow fruit 🍓 bearing trees, as it was in the past.
So he was not just giving future predictions but also he had the knowledge of the past.
BBC:
Deep in the deserts of Saudi Arabia, a team led by Oxford University has made a startling discovery: a giant, 325,000-year-old tusk belonging to an extinct species of elephant, remarkably preserved and embedded by an ancient lake.
It is vivid proof, say archaeologists, that giant beasts once roamed lush and fertile plains where today the wind-blown sand covers the searing Nafud Desert.
“Using satellite technology to map out the terrain, we predict there are tens of thousands of unknown archaeological sites in the Arabian Desert,” says project leader Prof Mike Petraglia. “There are over 7,000 [dried-up] lake beds on the peninsula, most in Saudi Arabia.”
@@koplak9809The Qur'an has been carbon dated to the lifetime of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH), every letter every dot, identical. A Book that can substantiate its claims, without contradictions.
The earlier Holy Book have major, contradiction, error, omissions due to fabrications by admissions of Christian and Jewish scholars. No abrahamic scholar worth his salt would defend the idea that these scriptures are preserved. There are numerous s clear cut examples of total contradiction, how can anyone substantiate that? Did God made a mistake?
The Qur'an is the measuring stick. If the Qur'an confirms something from the OT, then it's true and if it rejects something, then it's the fabrication of men.
@@koplak9809If Qur'an is false and Muhammed is a liar. How did he predict in (Surah Rum 30:1-4) that the Romans would be defeated and after their defeat they will overcome and become victorious? How did he know that a decade before it happened and not just that he also predicted that the Romans would be defeated in the "lowest land on earth".
Byzantine and Persian Empires went to war and Byzantine suffered defeat when Damascus and Jerusalem both fell to the Persian Empire.
This area is near the Red Sea which is the lowest point on Earth. At over 400 meters below the ses level.
He also predicted that the bear footed Bedouins will one day complete in making the tallest buildings and hundred years ago Dubai was nothing more then a desert land.
As the hadith says, "And you will see barefoot naked poor shepherds/Bedouins vying with one another in the construction of tall buildings…”(Sahih Muslim, Hadith)
"The poor people of the Deserts will suddenly become wealthy and begin boasting about their buildings”(Al Minhaj)
And not just that, he also predicted in Hadith (Shish Muslim) Arabian peninsula will grow fruit bearing trees, as it was in the past.
So he was not just giving future predictions but also he had the knowledge of the past.
@@ezekielhall7907 Some of the predictions when Prophet Jesus/Isa PBUH will return and kill the Dajjal/Antichrist and the believers will be asked to kill the army of the antichrist which will be mostly the tyrant Jews of that tim. Which we now know that Zionists are here and they are not normal Jews but tyrant ones. So worst is yet to come but God is enough for us believers as the suffering of this life is temporary as we are just travellers on this Planet and this is our only test for the hereafter which is permanent.
"it was reported that Ibn ‘Umar (may Allah be pleased with them both) said: “I heard the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) saying: ‘ The Hour will not come untill You (i.e. Muslims) will fight against the Jews (Tyrant ones) and you will gain victory over them. The stones will (betray them) saying: ‘O ‘Muslim!, O slave of Allah! There is a Jew hiding behind me; so kill him.’ 1 This Hadith was reported by Al-Bukhari.
3: lbn ‘Umar (may Allah be pleased with them both) said that he heard the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) saying: “The Antichrist will pass by this salty barren area i.e. Madinah, in a passage of a canal. Most of those who will come out to him will be women so that a man will return to his intimate wife, mother, daughter, sister or aunt to tie them up for fear that they might go out to him. Then, Allah will afflict him with Muslims who kill him and his followers and the Jews will hide behind a tree or a rock and the rock or the tree will say to the Muslim: There is a Jew behind me, come and kill him!” 3 This Hadith was reported by Ahmad in his Musnad.
(Sahih Muslim 2937 a)
Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said:
“He (Dajjal) would be a young man with twisted, contracted hair, and a blind eye. I compare him to `Abd-ul-`Uzza b. Qatan (a disbeliever of prophet’s time). He who amongst you would survive to see him should recite over him the opening verses of Sura Kahf. He would appear on the way between Syria and Iraq and would spread mischief right and left. O servant of Allah! adhere (to the path of Truth). We said: Allah's Messenger, how long would he stay on the earth? He (PBUH) said: For forty days, one day like a year and one day like a month and one day like a week and the rest of the days would be like your days. We said: Allah's Messenger, would one day's prayer suffice for the prayers of day equal to one year? Thereupon he (PBUH) said: No, but you must make an estimate of time (and then observe prayer). We said: Allah's Messenger, how quickly would he walk upon the earth? Thereupon he (PBUH) said: Like cloud driven by the wind. He would come to the people and invite them (to a wrong religion) and they would affirm their faith in him and respond to him. He would then give command to the sky and there would be rainfall upon the earth and it would grow crops. Then in the evening, their pasturing animals would come to them with their humps very high and their udders full of milk and their flanks stretched. He would then come to another people and invite them. But they would reject him and he would go away from them and there would be drought for them and nothing would be left with them in the form of wealth. He would then walk through the waste land and say to it: Bring forth your treasures, and the treasures would come out and collect (themselves) before him like the swarm of bees. He would then call a person brimming with youth and strike him with the sword and cut him into two pieces and (make these pieces lie at a distance which is generally) between the archer and his target. He would then call (that young man) and he will come forward laughing with his face gleaming (with happiness) and it would be at this very time that Allah would send Jesus, son of Mary, and he will descend at the white minaret in the eastern side of Damascus wearing two garments lightly dyed with saffron and placing his hands on the wings of two Angels. When he would lower his head, there would fall beads of perspiration from his head, and when he would raise it up, beads like pearls would scatter from it. Every non-believer who would smell the odor of his self would die and his breath would reach as far as he would be able to see. He would then search for him (Dajjal) until he would catch hold of him at the gate of Ludd and would kill him.”
May Allah be pleased with you
Love that brother Jake used brother Daniel’s slides.
Allahumma Baarik.. Sharp big bro J 🇿🇦
جزاك الله خيرا وبارك الله فيك 🤲🇵🇸✌️
Jazakallahu khair
Hindus that become a trinitarian have actually gotten an upgrade from 100 Gods to 3. Let's hope they upgrade again and come to Islam. May God guide the Hindus in the right direction
Jazaka Allah khaier Br. Jake
Jesus peace be upon him was never a trinitarian.
False
May Allah strengthen you in your upcoming debate brother albeit i do believe that the Modern-day debate channel isn't the ideal platform for doing this debate due to its questionable impartiality. Anyway may Allah be with you!
Paul who was a Jew changed the Bible 💁🏻
He wasn't a Jew, he pretended to be a pharisee to legitimise his claim that he knew Jewish law, Tanakh etc
He didn't, and he didn't change the Bible, he just lied about what Jesus taught and then anonymous people who were probably priests wrote gospels and later canon.
@@kemest6666 There's absolutely no historical evidence that Paul was a Jew. Why are you bringing up Islam, are you retarded ?
Paul was a Liar, mass murderer, fabricator, inserter and the maker of Christians theology, and was Never a disciple who ever saw or walked with Jesus.
@kemest6666 Paul didn't change the bible though I say this as a Muslim. The bible has been changed but the biblical canon of the new testament was made after the death of Paul and the hawariyyoon as well as the anonymous gospel authors
@@kemest6666 more like ignorance is shining like luke 10.18 deviI who paul saw in acts 9.3 pretending to be Jesus...
New T. 's 1st manuscripts proof Isa taught Islam & it changed after him, see nrsvue footnotes. Codex compiled 350 ce. centuries later, 95% of bible is 9th century after Quran fixes bibIe too.
Thanks for the video
Christians don't know the meaning of these words
Fully
100%
Immortal
If it was for everything else, they would call it nonsense, but because its their core doctrine, they call it mystery.
Thank you brother you gave a very good presentation. May Allah accept your deeds and efforts and keep your intentions pure. AMEEN!
Muslim ummah are grateful to have you as the best debater in the western world defending Islam. May Allah reward you.
Proud of you brother from Saudi arabia
Alhamdolillah. Jazak Allah for you excellent research. May Allah guide us all to the right path. Ameen
If there were three (Gods) as the Christians claim!!
Who of the three makes decisions?!
Is one, two, or all combined at the same time ?!
What if they disagree among themselves?!
Do one of them prevail over the other?!
Does God have a wife?!
Why did God take a son and does not have a daughter?!
Is he a racist God who loves sons only without girls?!
Does God reproduce or is he satisfied with only one son?!
What is the purpose of taking a son in the first place?!
All of these are embarrassing questions!!
What they say about God Almighty is very false !!
Christians don’t claim their are three God’s, nor do we rely on ancient theologians opinions. We have the Bible and His Spirit in dwells us because of faith in Christ, The Son. He should probably stick to giving opinions on the Koran to those who believe it. No (authentic) Christian needs to be taught by this guy-The Holy Spirit informs us of truth as we meditate on the scripture & study & apply it. It seems he’s taught you error (or his teachings have not corrected your understanding). I say that respectfully and not in judgement. The reason is what you first stated that any Christians believe in more than one God!!! We know there is Only ONE God, Who alone should be worshipped. The God of Abraham.
Plus arguing does not cause desire for truth or receiving it. A humble heart yielded desires truth & God gives. truth to all who seek it. Theology of man is too small to reveal the Immeasurably powerful & loving Creator. God is beyond human comprehension. It is no surprise that a concept of Trinity that explains something of Him are beyond natural understanding. Do you or this teacher understand that believing in the trinity or not is NOT a requirement or a sin either way. Christ alone is God’s only provision for salvation.
@@paulthomas5860it's interesting that the Holy Spirit dwells among you and yet managed to skip the early church fathers who were inspired by something else other than God. Yet, you still follow the bible that the same misguided church fathers brought forth. I find that utterly intriguing!
@@paulthomas5860 So which Christians are informed of the truth by the Holy Spirit? Unitarians, or Trinitarians? Protentants, Catholics, or Orthodox? Those with 66 books in their Bible, or 73, or 81?
@paulthomas5860
Clement mentioned in Philippians 4:3
Phlip 4:3 Indeed, true companion, I ask you also, help these women who have shared my struggle in the cause of the gospel, alongside ✔️Clement as well as the rest of my fellow workers, whose names are in the book of life.
Clement, was "Apostle Peter's Scribe", and ran 1st church Rome from
60-90AD till Martyred.
Here's Clement:
1 Clement 59:4.
"Let all the Gentiles know that
👉Thou art the God alone, and
🤴🏻Jesus Christ is Thy Son.
Clement echos Jesus perfectly as follows:
John 17:3
"Now this is eternal life, that they may know
You, the 👨🏻🦳only true God,
🤴🏻and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent."
Irenaeus~ Against Heresies 3.9.1 (180-200AD)
The Lord Himself handing down to His disciples, that He, the Father, is the 👨🏻🦳only God and Lord, who 👉alone is God and ruler of all…
Irenaeus~Against Heresies 3.6.4(180-200AD)
Wherefore I do also call upon
thee,👉 Lord God of Abraham, and God of Isaac, and God of Jacob and Israel, who art the
🤴🏻Father of our lord Jesus Christ,
👨🏻🦳the God who, through the abundance of
Thy mercy, hast had a favour towards us,
that we should know Thee,
Who hast made heaven and earth,
who rulest over all, who art the
👉"only and the true God"👈 above whom
there is none other God; Grant, by our
🤴🏻Lord Jesus Christ,
the governing power of the Holy Spirit;
give to every reader of this book to know
Thee, that 👨🏻🦳Thou art God alone,
to be strengthened in Thee,
And to "avoid every heretical, and godless,
and impious doctrine".
Justin martyr First Apology 61
[T]here is pronounced over him who chooses to be born again, and has repented of his sins, the name of 👉God the Father and Lord of the universe; he who leads to the laver the person that is to be washed calling him by this name alone, For no one can utter the name
of the👨🏻🦳 ineffable God…
And in the name of 🤴🏻Jesus Christ, who was crucified under Pontius Pilate, and in the name of the Holy Ghost, who through the prophets foretold all things about Jesus, he who is illuminated is washed. [10]
Martyrdom of Ignatius 2 (140A.D.)
Thou art in error when thou callest the daemons of the nations gods. For there is but 👨🏻🦳One God, who made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all that are in them; and 🤴🏻One Jesus Christ,
🫴the only-begotten Son of God,
whose kingdom may I enjoy.
210AD TERTULLIAN A HERMOGENES.
CHAP. IIIAN ARGUMENT OF HERMOGENES
(🫨210A.D. time when 👉Jesus didn't exist?)
Because God is in like manner a Father, and He is also a Judge; but He has not always been Father and Judge, merely on the ground of His having always been God.
For He could not have been the Father previous to the Son, nor a Judge previous to sin.
There was, however, a time when 👉neither
sin existed with Him,👉nor the Son;🤴
the former of which was to constitute the Lord a Judge, and the 🫴latter a Father.👈
In this way He was not Lord previous to those things of which He was to be the Lord.
But He was only to become Lord at some future time: just as He became
👉the "Father by the Son"👈, and a "Judge by sin", so also did He become Lord by means of those things which He had made, in order that they might serve Him. Do I seem to you to be weaving arguments Hermogenes?
210AD TERTULLIAN A HERMOGENES.
CHAP. III AN ARGUMENT OF HERMOGENES
Revelation 3:12
The one who conquers,
I will make him a pillar in the temple of
👉"My God". Never shall he go out of it,
and I will write on him the name of
👉"My God", and the name of the city of
👉 "My God", the new Jerusalem,
which comes down from
👉 "My God" out of heaven, and
🤴🏻My New Name".
(2 Separate individuals)
Rev 3:21 KJV
To him that overcomith ,
will I grant to sit with me on
🤴🏻"My Throne"; even as I also overcame,
and ad set down with
👨🏻🦳"my father" on his throne.
(✌️2 SEPARATE THONES!!)
Matthew 19:28
Jesus said to them, “Truly, I say to you, in the new world, when the 👸"Son Of Man👈 will sit on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
Jesus Son-Of-Man, Standing NEXT to God
Acts 7:5 Stephen looked up to heaven & saw the "Glory of God,
and 🤴🏻"Jesus standing"
at the right hand of
👨🏻🦳God.
56 “Look,” he said, “I see heaven open and
🤴🏻"The Son of Man,
Standing at the right hand 👨🏻🦳of God.”
Here's where we find Jesus in the O.T.
Daniel 7:9-14
“As I looked, “thrones were set in place,
and the👨🏻🦳 "Ancient of Days" took his seat
His clothing was as white as snow;
the hair of his head was white like wool.
His throne was flaming with fire,
and its wheels were all ablaze.
10. A river of fire was flowing, coming
out from before him.
Thousands upon thousands attended him;
ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him. The court was seated, and the books were opened.
13 “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a
🤴"Son of Man",coming with the clouds of heaven. 🫴He approached the
👨🏻🦳 "Ancient of Days" and was led into his presence.
14 🤴🏻He was given Authority, glory and sovereign power; All Nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an Everlasting Dominion that will not pass away, and His Kingdom is one that will never be destroyed
Even at the END of the 2nd Century, The ONLY GOD? Was ALWAYS the Father.
ALL 9NT Authors christology of Jesus, was & is uncontested that Jesus has a God.
I've also provided the most popular theologians of the first and second century and they also confirmed that the one God was always the father.
Something I never learned on a church pew was?? the Memoir "nicknamed"
The Gospel of John?
Is "ANONYMOUS MEMOIR"!!
(See chapter 20+21, an unnamed collection of scribes simply identified as "we"🙄)
However Christians reframe the whole biblical narrative watch:
-G💡D, "did not" come down AND get "tempted",
from a creature "he made",
with everything he ALREADY OWNS?
-God doesn't grow in favor, "with God".
-God doesn't "anoint" God.
-Watch ISAIAH 53 FALL FLAT with the TRINITY...
According to Isaiah chapter 53,
YaH Rewards Yeshua, The Suffering-Son-of-Man Servant, With Spoils, wait what??
Then in TRINITARIAN terms?
💯God rewards GOD, with spoils??
🫷Trinity land...
Luke brags that Jesus will sit on his great grandfather King Davids throne?
This repackaged Constantine narrative,
Makes 🫱King David ,The Great Grandfather
of God Almighty?!?
Was God the actual father of Jesus?
Because "IF" the Holy Spirit is actually, "another person" of the trinity, and that's a different"who"?
😬 Wheres Maury we might need a paternity test...
Trinitarian theologians didn't think ANY of this through😮💨😓
@muslimMetaphysician Brother Jake.
Thank you for the work you do. We understand about some people who decide not to use the brain and just blindly belive and not probing with open mind and logic.
Please also let us see your happy face as well.
If this does mot convince them...!
alhamdulillah. thanks
You know that craziest thing is, they didn't even know the original language in which the injil was given. The fact everything is in early greek alone tells you what mythology influenced their later beliefs
the injil is something muslims made up, christians dont believe there was a book manifested out of this air, thats pretty much a muslim invention. Ok, please tell me about that greco-roman myth that mentions Christ and the Holy Spirit.
Ma'Sha'Allah Alhumdullilah Allahu-Akbar
strong video
Belief in Allah and Allah alone. It’s very easy
"The baptismal formula was changed from the name of Jesus Christ to the words Father, Son, and Holy Spirit by the Catholic Church in the second century."
[ The Catholic Encyclopedia, II, page 263 ]
Here the authors which is Catholics acknowledged that the baptismal formula was changed by their church.
What else need to be said?
❤
Can someone please tag googling philosophy
I find it astonishing that we have a protestant on copium😂
Revisionism of early Christianity by Protestantism in 2024🤣
💬 Refutation of the claim that Origen believed in the Trinity based on early Christian authorities.
00:00
Michael Jones claims Origen believed in the Trinity, but his own presentation contradicts this.
Challenging the assertion that early Christians were trinitarians based on Origen's beliefs.
📚 Origins beliefs challenge traditional trinitarian views, influencing early Christianity.
03:28
💡 Origen's interpretation of the Gospel of John challenges the traditional Trinitarian belief.
07:24
💡 Early Church's view on divinity: God is unique, while others become divine through participation. The Son and Holy Spirit are subordinate to the Father.
11:29
💡 The distinction in nature between the Father and the Son in early church teachings.
15:29
The second person of the Trinity is considered another God but not the same as the Father.
The Father is characterized as higher than the Son in terms of divinity.
No direct procession from the immutable for even the second person.
Paul the cursed one .
Min 10:00 Jake asked if the Father solely autotheos and the Son has no Aseity then how is it not a denial of Nicene homoousian theology? The answer is Nicene Trinitarianism only profess one God the Father alone. It's in the creed. The Son as Origen correctly pointed out participate by being consubstantial. Analogy would be consubstantiality of Allah and Kalimatullah. Both are consubstantial but Allah alone is the one true God and superior to His Kalimatullah. Similar apply in Christianity. Let me know Jake if we can discuss this in detail. I do agree with you that Origen didn't profess Nicene Trinitarianism. But I think you might not aware that hypostatic subordinationism is professed at Nicaea. What denied in Arianism is essential subordinationism not hypostastic subordinationism because Nicene fathers profess the Father alone is uncaused and alone has Aseity. I would refer you back to your dialogue with Dr Beau Branson on why Eastern Orthodox deny the Son has Aseity. God bless brother.
Your stamp doesn't say what you claim I said. I'm well aware of the traditional claim that only the Father is a se. That's not being disputed. However, Origen believed as I do that this results in an ontological subordinationism and not merely a hypostatic one. Also, your analogy between Allah and His kalaam is not appropriate. The distinction is that Allah is God, and His kalaam is an attribute of His i.e. not God Himself. So, it isn't analogous at all.
@@TheMuslimMetaphysician do you have Facebook where we can do zoom? I am not aware any scholars even liberals who claim Origen profess essential subordinationism. To my knowledge scholars affirm Origen was professing hypostastic subordinationism. This is not an issue for Eastern Orthodox and Catholics. Only problem for Protestants. Calvinists profess the Aseity of the Son. Luther condemned Calvin for polytheism.
We want to see the debate between you and googling philosophy and Jay Dyer. But guess what? They won't dare.
Unfortunately. Brother Jake did have a discussion with IP, which seems very interesting
@@Ice51234who is IP ?
Edit: inspiring philosophy
@Ice51234 I saw that discussion at TAP. I don't think IP will ever want to have a debate with brother Jake after that. Jake is a bomb 😆
?Why don't chrisindom follow the ways ,the lifestyle of isa(jesus) peace be upon him.
GOD CAN DOWN TO EARTH, GOT HIS OWN SON, SACRIFICED HIMSELF TO HIMSELF, TO CONVINCE HIMSELF HE HAS GIVEN US. From Mother of all Churches. Can we swallow such crap?
SAY, ALLAH IS ONE, SUSTAINER OF ALL BUT INDEPENDENT, HE BEGETS NOT NOR IS HE BEGOTTEN, AND THERE IS NONE LIKE ONTO HIM...QUR'AN. What a clear teaching? The real truth.
Jon 1.1 says the word is God.
Jon 1.14 says word became flesh - big problem.
Numbers 23.19, hoses 11.9, etc. Say God is not a man.
Quran says Allah's word bestowed on Mary is Isa.
This reminds me of Quran and Fatiha being Ruqya, Quran is uncreated and has an affect, it doesn't mean the person/creation affected now becomes God/Creator... makes no sense
Jazak Allah rejan
You are gonna debate jay dyer in two days right?
Origen = The whole early church 🥴🥴🥴
You dont think there's anyway that God is all 3? God in heaven hes in spirit and on earth to serve the overall purpose?. Genuine question. Ive thought about it like me taking a photo holding the phone. Im the overall being and now I'm in that photo also. Sorry if that was confusing. I feel like God could do anything even things that we can't comprehend
The video is not about why the Trinity cannot be true. The video is simply a response to claim made by Inspiring Philosophy (Michael Jones) that early Christians including Origen were Trinitarians. This video is meant to serve as a refutation of that claim from Michael. I have plenty of other videos on my channel that deal with the topic that you've mentioned, but this isn't one of them.
@@TheMuslimMetaphysician
Can you do a video on the dual personality or contradiction of paul in his letter, shadid lewis aka Mr Islam Answers back mentioned this but still has yet to follow through, maybe you can do it and make it a benefit. Jazak Allahu Khayr!
Can god create a stone he cant lift? Can god transform to an ant or tick? Of couse god cant do that. that point god is no longer a god, he is not all-powerful. There were things that god cannot do, which is contradict himself.
Is that person in the photo 100% you? No, its just a 2d image, it's missing life, consciousness, etc. IT's not analogous to the trinity which states that all 3 members of the trinity have 100% of the properties of God.
in clip it says oregin (184 d. 253) is student of clemens.
wrote hexaphla (critical bibIe)
in short Origen in against celsus bk 8 chapter 14 and the bible verses like jon 10 :29 or 14 :28 agree Jesus isn't co equal (nor is h. spirit but subordinate) ... then arians are trinitarians too.
Oregin commentary of gospeI jon bk 2 section 2.
We believe Jesus's God in jon 17 :3 - You are the only true God
The father is autotheos & son is made lesser god by participation.
Jesus to origin is highest demigod created.
steven r holmes quest of trinity
oregin denies same being
If it's same nature they are either one thing or two things in the same class. (2nd god or lesser god)
stanford encyclopedia philosophy on origen, says 2nd person of trinity is another god & The Father is hotheon or autotheos
and for those trinitarians who quote jon 17.5 go to jeremia 1.5 first.
trinity is a pagan model, Tawhid is true faith of Abraham!
LOO
I don't really understand how is Trinity any different from pagan beliefs
Why does god have to have a biological/divine/ whatever son?
it's like pagan believers imposed their previous polytheistic beliefs on monotheism and went on with it
1. Does any pagan Trinity describe one God in three persons? 2. "For the Son of God became man so that we might become God.”- St. Athanasius. 3: We dont kiss a Black rock or pray five times a day like zoroastrians. The star and Crescent was originally a Persian symbol.
Arianism is the alternative.
It doesnt make sense actually
Googling Philosophy is a cheap propagandist. He has no knowledge in any field or topic. But he pretends to be an expert in all fields.
I DO NOT UNDERSTAND THIS VIDEO.
ALHAMDULILLAH!
What didn't you understand?
@@TheMuslimMetaphysician
sarcasm,
i don't want to understand trinity.
the level delusional of trinity is too high.
i don't even know if christians are delusional or ignorant.
Allah just for arab god..
You would first need to point towards an ayah in the Quran to support your claim.
If you believe in trinity, then you would have to accept the words of Jesus (as God) when he said "I have not come except for the lost sheep of the house of Isreal." So this would make the God of the Bible, only for the Israelites.
@@nasirimani5058 atthew 28:19-20
New International Version
19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
He is the God or Everyone buddy 🤷♂️
@GigaChad-pv7de now show us where any disciple actually went out and followed that formula. What you have at best is a contradiction in your book.. or as many have suggested, a later interpolation! Buddy!
I swear modern Christianity is just paganism
Jake, do you realize that by your logic the Trinity would be neither a monotheistic god nor a polytheistic one? Because if you count by the Leibnizian identity, something can't be "two" or more unless it repeats itself identically, see? And in general, even polytheistic religions cannot be said to be polytheistic unless their gods aren't identical to each other.
This video clearly went over your head. He is just pointing out that beliefs of origen are at odds with nicene creed. He isn't saying it is neither monotheistic nor polytheistic which isn't even point of video. Doctrine of Trinity is clearly polytheistic if divinity is predicated to the separate and distinct persons, it results in three gods(tritheism) or three parts(partialism). But if divinity is viewed as identity statement, it collapses persons of trinity into 1, which results in heresy of "modalism" that father and son are identical.
Look you can twist this the way you want, but you obviously know it makes no sense, only to be accepted in blind faith. I find it nothing but conjectures, there is nothing logical.
So if you and I are in a room, there aren't two humans in that room, because we're not identical?
@@Suleiman212 Right, by Jake's argument, which is counting by Leibnizian identity means that two people aren't really two people unless they're not identical. By the same logic, neither polytheists are really polytheists unless they don't believe in many "identical" gods. He tries with his criterion to look at it only one way: "Three persons cannot have one essence unless they are identical in all aspects." But by the same logic, there cannot be three gods, if all three aren't "identical" to each other.
@@giorgisanadiradze1815"Two people aren't really two people unless they're NOT identical."
But that's the point, Trinitarians don't believe each person of the Trinity is identical... So if they're NOT identical, they are therefore three Gods. Just like you and I are NOT identical, so we're two humans.
True they dont learn about trinity because the trinity lived in them, and from islam born jihad, sharia law, everyday christian are killed in muslim country
Stop spewing lies. You just gave 27 billion to Israel to delete 2.5 million in Gaza. That's you.
Im orthodox, the earliest christianity, apostolic succession going back directly to jesus the apostles and the church fathers, and you dont know orthodoxy as i saw in the beginning of the video, we do believe that the father is indeed greater than the son and the holy spirit, the father is above them, The true trinity is Monarchia of the father, and so easy i debunked your whole video
"Orthodox" Christians don't believe that the Son and Spirit are ontologically subordinate/inferior to the Father in the way that Origen did. Sorry you didn't debunk anything. The Son was not the Most-High God, according to Origen, as I demonstrated in the video.
@TheMuslimMetaphysician I'm not talking about Origen but the different trinity, Origen was a heretic nothing different than Marcion
@@marchelomanchev5317 then you're not actually commenting on the subject of the video. Thanks for wasting everyone's time 👍🏻
@TheMuslimMetaphysician In the beginning of the video you said if you not believe that the son is equal to the father the son is then not god and no Christian believed it I just responded to that
@@marchelomanchev5317
No. He said you're heretic if you DON'T believe the son is the most high God. Justin Martyr, Origen, Ignatius, and other examples that didn't believe Son to be the most high God/Maker of all things.
Great 👍
Bruh how many times are you going to whoop them? It’s getting borderline sadistic now.