The Code: Documentary on Fighting in Hockey
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- čas přidán 19. 03. 2016
- www.cbc.ca/fifth/episodes/2009...
CBC's documentary series, The Fifth Estate, aired this documentary on fighting in hockey back in 2010.
This video does not reflect my thoughts, opinions or stance on fighting in hockey and is posted for educational purposes only. - Sport
A lot more people have been paralyzed or killed by dirty hits than fights.
Some of which could've been prevented without the instigator rule.
Yeah, those fighter kill themself from the pain and depression. That doesn't count ? Do you know how many fighter died in the past 10 years because they could not live with themself on different levels ? The deaths are way more on the enforcers side and that is a tragedy.
@116287225274358434564 Yes, but I think if all players on a team stepped up instead of having one guy (the enforcer) step up for the entire team, there would be a healthier balance and less long term problems. Also, again, dirty hits are far more dangerous than fighting, even if the player is an enforcer type who fights every few games.
***** Fighting mediates the tone of the game. If someone is running at guys left and right, someone will drop the gloves with them and the amount of hitting in the game is reduced, because they know they will have to answer to it. But, yes, guys will always cheapshot. It's a contact sport and things will get carried away, which is also why fighting will always be apart of hockey.
***** It absolutely does. I doubt you've ever played hockey.
Perfect metaphor for life. I was 5’5” 125lbs in the 8th grade, getting bullied at every turn, when my dad told me, “Nobody can stop people from picking on you. Not your teachers or counselors, not the police, and not even myself. The one and only thing that will stop these kids from picking on you is the prospect of a violent reaction. You don’t even need to win, you just need to fight back. Ponse pensar carbon.” My life changed that day. My only regret is that I didn’t give my tormentors something to think about earlier in my life.
So right dude. I had just told my kids this the other day.
Exactly even if you lose a fight you'll get respect because next time the tables can turn.
@Chavron Chavron,reading your post was like reliving my youth.I was 5'5",but only 100 lbs.I did everything I could to bulk up,so that the bullies would leave alone.Did'nt work out that way.All thru high school I was tormented.A couple of guys on our high school hockey team were the worst.I always tried to fight back,but I was small and weak,with no fighting skills at all,but I tried.Right after I graduated,I had my growth spurt.By then,I was boxing,taking a little karate,and wrestling,all to develop some skills.4 months after graduating,I was at a keg party in the woods,(I'm 63),when the two bullies showed up with their entourage,immediately focusing on me.But just like you and your dad,my dad had told me,"guy's bully other guys because they think they can get away with it.But when they get punched in the face,they'll leave you alone".I knew he was right but still,punching a guy in the face,a guy who's been beating you up for years,is a hard thing to do.But I did it,they weren't gonna let me get away without a beef,and,God as my witness,they got one.Broke one nose,along with a knockout.Word traveled fast,and people started leaving me alone,but I squared up with EVERYONE WHO EVER FUCK.D WITH ME...
You're right. If they think you might give them a violent reaction, they won't. I met a person years later who bullied in school because of his own issues. He told me he only picked on person who he thought could get away with.
This is going to sound bad, but respect keeps you from getting hurt. You hear stories about what happens to adult men who look weak in prison, and that kind of mentality exists with kids (at least boys) growing up. And all these injuries they're talking about in this documentary? We're flying twenty miles an hour on the ice? (maybe not that speed but something like it) and our goal is to get this hard rubber puck that easily gets slapped around at 50 miles per hour as kids and in the NHL leagues a strong defense man can hammer that thing home well above a hundred miles per hour. The ref drops that puck and the adrenaline surges in us to compete and push us beyond our limits - to win.
Also you ever get hit by that thing at an unpadded part of your body? Sh*t that stings afterward.
Ice hockey is a nascar crash waiting to happen, and all this crap about injuries from fighting? What does more damage to a person. A car crash or a broken nose? It's not the punch that hurts someone - we're not the UFC and ground and pound fellas - but its that head and (most recently) the neck with that one guy who died a few months back. Sticks, blades, and shoulder checks that are laser guided missiles and depending on what part of the body they COLLIDE against that will cause a concussion or other serious injury.
In my lifetime as a player I only had one serious injury and it came from my skate getting stuck in a rut and a hard open ice hit. As I was a sitting duck my body and leg twisted one way, and my ankle and foot stayed in place. Decades later I still feel the fractures in my ankle (I had only thought it was a bad sprain and never had it looked at by an actual doctor). But that's mild comparatively. It was Kaleta from Buffalo who did that dirty hit on Brad Richards back in March 2013? For all the naysayers of fighting out there go look that up on youtube as well as other life threatening hits that happened in hockey. That said, as a native of Rochester I followed up on Kaleta and while he's no longer in the NHL (he never played again after that hit) he changed his attitude, turned his life around, and became a good role model for hockey youths in the community. Not making excuses, just keeping it real.
So if you're going to talk about "fighting" you first need to address head hunting and I would go so far as to say open ice hits. And for those who don't understand why an open ice hit is worse than one against the boards? Get out of here and go back to playing baseball or video games or watching CNN or whatever.
I only made it 27 minutes into this "documentary" before turning it off given how out of whack it was in terms of objectivity. Hockey is a violent competitive sport that requires aggression in order to win. If you don't give that aggression an outlet eventually someone is going to get hurt and it won't be from a punch being thrown. A good parent will recognize if their kid isn't having fun in the sport if the violence is a problem, in which case that kid shouldn't be on the ice. Go play soccer or something - but not hockey.
As a non hockey following fan, I’ve always admired how badass of a sport it is !!
Its the only fair and JUST sport... You are a bitch, you get treated like one... Pretty much the opposit of soccer
I played the game for 25 years and fighting was and will always be a part of this game. CHEAP SHOTS are the danger here and fighting keeps them in check.
Ricky Pisano could you not police dirty hits by some sort of video review that could access multiple game suspensions and financial penalty?
@@crumdoggy Yeah, I don't get it. I mean there is certainly more risk due to getting hit with sticks and blades than in other sports. But Basketball, football, american football. In all of these a dirty player can easily cause serious injuries that put players out for weeks or months and even end their careers. Is the solution in these sports to let the players fight it out to keep those instances down? No, there are penalties.
But in hockey players should be allowed to fight. If someone does a cheap shot, penalize him, take money from him, ban him. If someone hits someone else with a stick in the head, hand them over to the police because of assault. These things should make hockey players learn to change their ways.
The reason why I think it's allowed is because people like it. They want to see the fights. Same kind of people that want to see crashes in racing, instead of watching the actual races probably.
Davey Hilton used to thumb me in the eye when sparring, not much you can do there. He did throw a drink on Gretsky's face once.
@@mike62mcmanus AWESOME!! I can relate in a different way to the eye thumb. My wife and I were walking down Venice Boulevard in West L.A. right where Motor St. crosses. There's an Army Surplus store in the lot there. To make a long story short I end up getting into it with this jerk over something he said to my wife. We minded our business, didn't bother anyone there and this goon had to open his mouth. He was a fairly big guy....probably 225LBs at least and a bit shorter than me. Now I'm lanky....6' 2" and about 185 LBs. So he definitely had the weight advantage. Not much of a puncher though but he could take a shot. So we're in this lot... right off Venice and FIGHTING. My wife is screaming at me.... and him. Just a scene. So...I hit him good...a few shots and he's missing me with every punch. But he managed to grab me and start wrestling. I ended up on my back with this idiot goon on top of me ready to T off on my face. Without as much as a thought I reached up with my left hand and stuck my thumb right in his eyeball....LOL..
HARD!! Almost took his eye out man. He jumped off me like he had jets on his ass and ran to the other side of the lot screaming at me that I was crazy. But I'll tell you this.....I didn't know this dude and IT WORKED. He no doubt would have pummeled my face so really no choice, right? Especially with Mama there. It was the only time in almost 10 years I had to get into it....thankfully... but yeah..... the thumb to the eye was a life saver for me. Worked like a charm. Stay well man!!
@@crumdoggy No.
Fighting keeps the peace. No fighting means a lot of cheap shots...
Lacrosse allows fighting too.
Also The NFL has plenty of cheap shots. The NBA does too, but is not as physical of a game so you don't see tempers fly as much. Hockey players too get suspended and fined when they cheap shot too.
***** well I disagree that football is more physical, but even if, it doesnt really collapse my argument. Their are still plenty of cheap shots in football.
***** It is opinion and what you say about getting hit on every play in football and being able to go a whole game in hockey with out getting hit tells me you have some biased and have never actually played both sports if either. Not here to debate which is more physical though.
Back on topic though, you see just as many cheap shots in football as you do hockey and many times they start scrums then it later results in another cheap shot. Again I'm not sure if you have watched hockey or even football, but hockey players don't go around throwing cheap shots every play or even every game. You can play the game with out fights, but it truly does keep the game more honest. It is part of the game and is no more dangerous than allowing players to body check each other or really any MMA or boxing match out there.
***** Like I said, biased. You are confusing blocks and scrums with hits. At your rate you might as well say basketball players take hits every game when they set picks and box each other out.
Last season I saw two players fight one another and after they gave one another a pat on the back as to say "good fight bro" #Respect
Trent Hogan if you fight somebody like a man, you might as well be polite after the fight... Like a man.
Yes, exactly.
Pewp Face Go fuck yourself you piece of shit troll.
Hahaha that guy's name is Pewp Face.
Pewd face LMAO
RIP Enforcer era of hockey, thank you to all the gladiators, I miss seeing you guys go to work. I'm not talking about cheap shots or sucker punches, I'm talking about 2 willing combatants taking center stage for their teams.
I have a feeling it's about to make a comeback. The Rangers DEFINITELY need some enforcers.
your dreaming tho, sucker punches are also a part of the game and iv'e seen the toughest best fighters in the game do it like using the rest room!! and that was just that, nobody had anything to say to them - like you and the s..t your talking now, at least not to their faces!!! it's the same as the code of a street fight or in the wild west, be aware of your surroundings- situational awareness.. or get snuffed thats reality, iv'e seen bob probert , tie domi, etc.. etc.. snuff/ sucker punch prob more players than you kissed woman, and what are you going to say next? that they were not gladiators?? So i'm not so sure you know w.t.f. your talking about.. snuffing guys is a part of the code... and only the bravest of fighters have quick thought the consequences of retaliation and could care less! so how about that for a reality check. tks for your post anyway..lol.
@@paulcarey191
Great that you enjoyed seeing cokeheads and weasels use Bush league tactics.
Barry Bonds for example was a great athlete in spite of using steroids, however the roid use made his accomplishments unrespectable.
I respected toughness and fair play, not lowbrow goonery.
I could care less if I was the only one who felt that way, but I’m not however.
Thanks for your interest 👍🏻
@@thedrewdog This aged well. Meet Matt Rempe ;)
If you have played hockey at ANY level or at any age, you realize it is a game of built up frustrations. The constant physical battling is a pressure cooker. The fighting pops all of that off at once. Take it all out and you will have dirty hits that kill careers and players a lot more than any fights ever will. Fights reset the slate.
We that have played the game understand the code. All other sports you run out bounds not in hockey.
So he died because he fell without a helmet, could happen and has happened without a fight too
Hyvin sanottu.
Niinpä
mutta se tapahtui nimenomaan tapellessa niin kaikki kukkahattutädit saa siitä jotain mistä huutaa...
They can fall off during a hit, let alone a slapshot to an un-vizored forehead or to the throat. Hockey is a deadly sports, hands down
Really? I see guys get their helmet knocked off from hits all the time. As far as fights, Players can't take their helmet off during a fight, it has to be knocked off.
If Sidney Crosby had a McSorley, he'd have a lot fewer concussions.
Ya pretty much. Gretzky and Crosby aren't 6'5 like Lemiuex who could defend himself
He had a McSorley for a year. And Laraque. and a few other chippy enforcer types.
Crosby made himself a target by being a crybaby, and brashear would have beat you ass again marty, you no talent cheap shot turd.
Absolutely! he will never be the toughest guy on the ice, but he will be the most talented!
@@slamminsammy941 spoken like a libby. A guy like you should keep your mouth shut
I can’t belive I used to play this game in the 80s it was brutal I’m still feeling the affects from shots to my head 40 years later it was savage
It seems to have robbed you of your ability to use punctuation. 😄
I just came here to say KEEP FIGHTING. Its needed and it will never go away.
Heartbreaking: It's a choice to play the sport. To watch the sport. It comes with the territory. It is the toughest, fastest most difficult sport there is.
Was at that game where Kypreos got laid out. Crowd went bananas. Looking back at it now, dude's lucky to still be alive.
That's why he broke down when asked if he wanted his kid to follow in his footsteps .
The Sanderson story is a sad and truly tragic anecdote.
It might even warrant a "safety in hockey analysis", for which you'd need to list all serious injuries in a given period, categorize and chart the causes.
My guess is among the causes topping that chart, fighting would not be among them.
That death was from slipping I played hockey all of my life and you really can't have an opinion unless you've played the game. It's highly emotional and tough if you don't like it turn the channel bottom line.
Uh, most of the people speaking out against fighting are NHL players, unlike YOU. I've never heard of you, so you cannot be much of a hockey player.
Fighting has it’s place in hockey but I think the ref should break it up if someone’s helmet flies off, that’s when you’re in danger of getting badly hurt. I think fighting’s a great thing for self policing a game that moves so fast the ref can’t catch every dirty play, but they need to break it up when a helmet comes off.
@@magicsteve5523 as a hockey referee that works in college hockey, I don’t want my linesman breaking up a fight until in calms down or goes to the ice. They could get hit with a punch and get injured themselves. We are taught to let the fight go until it calms down or they go to the ice. If the helmet comes off and the guys are still going strong then no linesman will step in and they shouldn’t. It’s more dangerous for all parties if they intervene to soon.
FACTS
theres a reason why Wayne Gretzky would only go to the Kings with Marty McSorley included in the deal.
The thing that disturbed me when I was watching this was the fact that these guys consistently punch each other in the back of the head. That's extremely dangerous. That's right where your spinal chord and brain stem are located. It's not the top of the back of the head that's so dangerous but the lower part. Where the head and the neck meet. In MMA this is illegal. In Hockey it seems to be fair game. That's really fucked up. Has anyone ever addressed this or even spoken about it?
Beat it, no one cares.
@@roostercogburn1943 Cave man want watch fight, no think
@@bombarded15 Yup, and keep fighting in the game.
Normally, the guys are facing each other, so it wouldn't happen much... or at worst would be glancing blows... That thing with McSorley and Brashear and that thing in Vancouver ... were anomalies...plus it had nothing to do with the code... it was guys going totally off the rails...criminal act & a lengthy suspension, which amounted to a lifetime ban in McSorley's case...
I was the enforcer on my curling team for 3 years. I am not proud of some of the things I had to do.
Imagine how much better they'd be to watch if fighting were allowed in Curling or Golf? LOL!!
You mopped the floor with alotta guys?
@@duanedavidson7219
Sometimes………..in the still of a cold winters night………I can still hear their screams.
SWEEEEP ………HURRY HARD……..SWEEEEP……….ALL THE WAY………..SWEEEEEEP !!!
Man, when I played hockey I looked forward to fighting. It's a part of hockey! It is something that will spark up a team and help to get the ball rolling.
Fighting is the only reason I watch hockey over other sports with zero fighting , I respect these guys for doing something I couldn’t do in shoes let alone on skates . They are beasts , respect !
Seeing that fight between Derek Boogaard and Wade Belak just shocks me to think that they emerged passing away within months of each other.
"fighting may prevent other injuries" - Gary Bettman.
Love him or hate him he gets the bigger picture in all aspect of the game.
That piece of shit rat will say one thing and do the opposite, he destroyed NHL.
@@StojanovskiTV I hate when make a statement, then fail to add supporting reasons why. Fuck your opinion.
@@StojanovskiTV yeah, what's your examples?
Hockey fighting is the sports great equalizer ensuring players safety for everyone. Checks and balances.
if there's one thing don was right about, the majority of those opposed to it haven't experienced it.
I've never been a criminal so I'm not allowed to assert that breaking the law is wrong.... stupid illogical argument. However, if it stops the "cheap shots"(whatever they are) to the skilful players them maybe there's an argument in favour of it. But if people die?
Doesn't matter. Players are already wise to the research and most don't want to take the risk of CTE.
Yeah, and during the brawling 1970's, how many players died from fighting? How many players incurred concussions? How many players do now, with a second referee and the instigator rule? I'll tell you - A HELL OF A LOT MORE (concussion-wise). And what about Ed Kea and Bill Masterton? They were horribly injured without fighting. So was Clint Malarchuk, Ace Bailey and others. Meanwhile, former enforcers like Stu Grimson and Baumgartner? Both highly educated and successful businessmen. And there's more. Fighting stays. It's a non-issue.
+Dani Harding Guys in the 70's didn't train like they do now. They all smoked, drank, and caroused. If they had the habits of todays NHL players, they would probably hold their own.
George Parros ended his career on a bad note but was a class act and gentleman in Anaheim. Princeton educated.
+alexalex939 I think you need to learn how to use punctuation and how to spell.
It's CZcams, not Advanced English.
Josh Done---- amen.
I believe unless you're a player at some point and/or a family member of a life player, coach, trainer, etc...you cannot truly understand this. Players especially, even if you played and never fought. You were in the scrum in a moment! The code indeed. I instinctively defended people I never liked off the ice in any capacity and they did the same for me.
this guy gets it
Even in the beer leagues there is an element to it. I can't tell you how many times I've been in a scrum defending a team-mate even though technically he was in the "wrong". At the end of the day, when you put that Jersey on. You have to have each other's backs. I'm not a fighter by any stretch, just when shit goes south I'm flying in there because they would do the same for me.
I love fighting in hockey. It gives the sport a culture of honor and respect that makes it unique. Today's NHL doesn't allow for many of these issues to happen. And at the end of the day it's two grown men. If they want to fight, let them fight.
You don't fight a guy who does not want to fight. Universal rule in life. If you do you are sucker-punching someone.
Try again with a dictionary. Its only a sucker punch if you punch someone who is not expecting it.
And in turn, someone will try to beat your ass.
@@brandnewty Domi to Ekblad preseason 17-18' season your thoughts? I agree with you, a face wash or jab/ scrum is another cup of tea but that was pathetic. He still hasn't paid for it unfortunately, win or lose someone even Ekblad, but he has concussion issues so it's like c'mon....gotta love the sport. Look forward to finishing this season whenever
@KoivuTheHab same question ^
@KoivuTheHab yeah in real life ya absolutely we can clock someone n visa versa....hockey there is a "code" did you just get off pornhub not watch the video and comment. Hey we don't have bandwagons. Everyone is so divided we all love hockey I just asked your opinion...who knows what was going on but hockey, respect, the code, the sport....not your neighbor bar buddy
1 guy dies during a hockey fight from a freak accident. Yet cars aren't banned and nor should they be.
Keep an eye out for my son. He's gonna be the NHL's biggest BadAss in history. But he wont be a SuckerPunch artist like Marchment.
Cars are useful to society with real purpose...goons are wild primates that never got what was coming to them. Your NRA logic is weak sauce. It's too bad they weren't good enough to play pro based on skill. And if their skill IS fighting...congrats...UFC will love them.
You are about as smart as Trump...and you voted against your own best interests, unless you are a billionaire? What do you do for a living? Pizza delivery--FOR SURE.
not just about the one guy dying, Its about the injuries to the many many players which leave the game with devastating effects that carries on after the game has finished for them. Its about the lasting effects of concussion after concussions. I love the fights dont get me wrong, But i cant be deluded to the effects these fights give the players. all for our entertainment
DigitalPrime With that fucking logic hits should be removed from the game also. Dumbest shit I've ever heard.
Hockey is a beautiful sport, a tough sport, a sport that requires quickness, agility, quick thinking, toughness and much more that only hockey players will ever understand. I love this game,,,,,,,,,, it's simply beautiful to play. As for fighting,,,,,,, I think it's time to protect the players of all ages,,,,,, and ban fighting.
I know Nick, I played on a few teams with him growing up. My hear sank the night he was knocked out. One of the nicest guys you will ever meet. One thing anti fighting people should know. Most fights aren't the heavyweights in the NHL. They are usually on the bench when a fight starts. They need to bring hitting back to every level of hockey. Teach kids right from the start on how to hit properly. I played for 35 years, I was a goalie. Tryouts for junior teams, they told me to fake getting hurt if someone bumped me so a fight would start in a scrimmage to see if a guy was tough enough. I had 1 fight in 35 years, a guy grabbed me, pinned me to the ice. I never fought again. A waste of energy, I had guys to protect me, without fighting more injuries would happen.
The instigator rule has taken the enforcer out of the game but it has also increased the number of head shots, cross checks, slewfoots , slashes , boarding etc. to the extent that it's but a matter of time before a super star is killed or knocked out of hockey as a result. Players no longer respect each other because they know the worst that can happen is they will be suspended for a few games and at the current pay scale in the NHL that is not a problem. When they KNEW an enforcer would be up their ass they thought twice.
Fights are the main reason I watch Hockey
My condolences to the family and friends. Getting killed playing the game you love just doesn't seem fair.As an ex player,it breaks my heart for his family.....RIP....
Georges larauque (I think I butchered his name sorry) but he's such a good guy he was on the penguins for a short time and he pretty much instantly became my favorite player. A gentle giant except when he's out on the ice what a beast. That left hand could kill.
Exactly. And players have died.
One accidental death in a beer league fight.... and this effects the NHL how? I know this is an old subject and I'm glad they didn't take fighting out of the game. The NHL has been softened up enough, any more and I'm going to lose interest.
You have to ask yourself though...why is it that EVERYONE agrees that the best hockey is always playoff hockey?
This isn't a pussies sport !
as much as I agree, you are a fucking goof if you think senior AAA is beer league ya plug
+Tom R *Exactly* this isn't baseball...lol
Highly skilled games with few fights.
Players will pick at opposing stars if they know there isn't a goon watching them, as long as hockey exists so will fighting
As a boy who grew up on the ice in the fall and winter; and on basketball and tennis courts with ball hockey the rest of the year, trash talk is that... trash. Said with a stick in the ribs or an elbow to the ear... time to drop the gloves. You can't go through an entire game taking the pokes in the same spots or too many to the ear. That is unacceptable and requires addressing on the strictest of terms. That most players have gravitated to the European style of play, and the enhanced skill set needed to excel therein, speaks of the hockey player's 'spiritual' evolutionary journey into a new generation who, wisely, have no wish to damage their assets frivolously (and face it people, a lot of fighting back in the day was frivolous - cause the fans loved it), instead focusing on the skills to control and dominate their opponents. I like a hockey game... any game. Skills, muscle, I'll take it all. It's almost an art form.
A key issue with the “code” is that star players need to be protected. I see it that “some” star players need to be protected from a regular clean body check by a non-fighter when there is clearly no penalty. Let’s call them out Wayne and Mario get special treatment. But other stars like Messier, Orr and Sittler can handle physical play and the enforcer doesn’t come to their rescue. Lindros at 6’ 5” 230 lbs retired because of concussions from largely clean hits. But because he also didn’t require on-ice security, he’s treated differently than Mario who’s 6’ 4”.
Clean hits are a vital part of hockey not retaliation fights.
It really enrages me when I hear people who insist they know hockey because they have watched it for years, they voice their opinions say that without a doubt fighting has to stop and they haven't ever played the game. If people like this had actually stepped on the ice and played at even mediocre level they would understand why hockey has fighting. This video is a perfect example of what I'm saying.
Ben Montgomery then explain why no other major league outside of America (that I know of) has no fighting?
Nörttiliiga because theirs no other sport that’s as physical as fighting. Football players wear loads of protection and every other league doesn’t even closely match the physicality of hockey. Look up on CZcams Zendeno Chara hit on Montreal Canadiens, if you were that guys teammate whose head got guided into the turnbuckle, wouldn’t you want to fuck chara up? Or no, would u just sit by and let chara keep hitting your star players and posing an even bigger risk. You don’t know hockey, you never will. Hockey is a life style not just a game.
christopher draper people making this argument are never gonna relate dude. If they could then they wouldn’t say such ludicrous nonsense. They also have an extremely jaded view of fighting period, like there’s some fight to the death mentality. They just don’t relate
I've watched hockey for more than 50 years, always been a big fan of hockey fights. However, NHL is a joke if they allow fighting. It's just the old joke, I went to the fights, and a hockey game broke out. It should be up to the referees to take cheap shots out of the game, not goons. This is from a lifetime fan who has seen thousands of hockey fights! I would propose that if players fight, they would be kicked out of the game and suspended. If they still want to fight, they can fight.
Vanenbusche at 26:00... He played a few games in NHL and then came to Finland in 2006 I think, to play with Jokerit Helsinki.There was a big hype about this big goon and the first game he played against the Helsinki rival HIFK, he started a fight 10 seconds into the game (the potential fight was talked about for days in the media) and lost it. He then played a few games later but he was so bad in hockey (especially on the big rink) that I don't think he even finished the season.
I think that was around the time when attitude towards hockey started to change in Finland. People got fed up with the fighting culture and it was despised that this fight was "scheduled" beforehand in the media. Nowadays in NHL or European leagues its not possible to be only a goon, you actually have to play hockey and contribute to the game.
I personally like spontaneous fights that happen in the heat of the moment, but the whole culture of having a goon or a police in your team is just old and ridiculous. it is dangerous and gives a bad name to the great game.
He played a few seasons in the NHL - mostly with Chicago - not a few games. Sounds like Vandenbussche's Finnish career lasted as long as Petri Varis' NHL career.
Tough call. From a fan perspective I like to see fighting. From Hockey dad experience it's hard to see your son slowly slide in on the MRI table.
I feel that needs to be fighting for cheap shots in the game but fighting for the sake of fighting should be discouraged. The role of the enforcer is pretty much dead as of this video which is sad in a way but it’s the new reality.
Fights aren't like they used to be...I wish there were more. It gets your team amped up and the crowd going wild.
Providing you're not the one being hit! Roman Arena for 20th Century. Disgraceful.
I played high school, prep school, and four years of university/college hockey college as a defense player, in Canada (Montreal) where they take their hockey very seriously. I saw and suffered many injuries, stitches, etc. We had to wear helmet, no face shield, no neck protection (did not exist then). I wore a mouth guard (inside). Being 5' 9" at 165 lbs wet, I was paired with a larger defense player. The games were very, very physical but there was a code i.e. if there was a cheap shot (gross cross-checking, slashing, stabbing with the stick, etc.), there was going to be retaliation. On the other hand, play fair (still being physical) and the game would go on without incidents. After a while, all players could foresee "danger situations" developing and would avoid/defuse them. Since most of us played the same colleges, we developed some kind of mutual respect which made the game somewhat "civilized". Besides, most of us still had to go to classes/exams the day after. As a defense player, a big part of stopping the the opponents forwards involved using your body, like wise "clearing the front of your goalie's net" from other players involves shoving them away or wrestling them. In the heat of the action," things happen" sometimes by accident, sometimes by intent.
Physicality is part of the game, I have seen more injuries by cheap shots than by fights.
Strangely enough, I witnessed more injuries in "friendly/adult leagues" where players play without protecting themselves against accidental collisions, pucks, hockey hits... because they play in a "friendly" league.
Ciao, L
I guess I'm missing something...you give your hockey resume so to speak but you don't know what spearing is?? Stabbing with the stick?? No intent to flame you...it sort of lessens your experience not knowing the rules of the game you state you played for a seemingly long time.
jdhrap X
Paul Karyia’s career was cut short after a number of concussions from cheap shots. Where was his enforcer to protect him from such cheap shots?
Keep your head up
Good on u Nick for your honesty! R.I.P. Mr Sanderson ......
This happened in my hometown. So sad. R.I.P. DS
I hate to agree with Don Cherry, but I think he's right, the people who want to ban fighting, are probably non fans...who think that's all they do...and why not ban boxing, if were going to build a big nanny state, there is a code, and most of the guys play by it, and if you break it, you are forever labeled as "dirty" and you lose the respect of the players and fans...
only death I ever heard of on the ice from fighting. it wasn't a punch that killed the kid.
Louie Lauria Exactly! its sad the guy died but it had nothing to do with fighting... im actually mad they mad this video bc it had nothing to do with a fight at all. hockey helmets come off when guys fall from hits into the boards too. some guys remove their helmets during fights bc it hurts less. Sad the guy died but fighting had zero to do with this.
Lou Cypher That is like saying that a victim of a shooting didn't die because of a gun, but because of the bullet
Louie
Except it was the punch that killed him. Anyone else does it any place else it's called manslaughter.
And it was a far faaaar cry from the NHL. “So never let the facts get in the way of our story/agenda” - The Left
i think fighting is good for the game. As an NBA fan lots of players get away with doing consistently dirty shit for not much ramification. I'm not advocating for fighting in the NBA as its a whole different beast of a sport but I think there would be way more dirty plays in NHL without it.
The NHL needs to increase the size of rinks to Olympic size, it will immediately promote more of the finesse part of the game.
More boring defensive game that is. There is no skill involved when you skate to the red line while opponents skate backwards to their blue line, and you have no other option than dump the puck and start backing up too.
Fighting is part of the game . If you don't allow fighting people will swing sticks and do other cheap shots .
Don't fight a hockey player...you''ll get hurt.
Not all hockey players can fight. Sorry to tell you that. And I'm talking about NHL players.
Il putt up a rugby player to any hockey player
This reminds me of football when it comes to the mentality you have to have. If the code was in the football, lower leg injuries and CTE cases wouldn't be so bad. I'm really getting more hooked on hockey
I remember a Flyers game when ken linebsman flyers center was brutally crosschecked across the back of the neck into the ice by Ed Hospadar the enforcer for the other team
Linesman had the nickname the rat and didn't shy away from poking someone in the side with his stick. My guess was That Linesman had broken one of the unwritten rules so Hospadar did his job as enforcer. This was met by the Flyers who put 5 tough guys
on the ice to pic a fight with Hospadar. Mel Bridgeman took the challenge and proceeded to pound the heck out of Hospadar. Bridgeman not known as a fighter was actually a tough guy who was no slouch when it came to fighting but the Flyers had many players just like him, that was probably one of the reasons they were called the Broad street Bullies.
Later in New York the Rangers picked up an enforcer from the North Stars who was a very good fighter. He got injured perhaps in a fight but i really don't remember how but that player started using drugs for pain and while out on iR died back in Minnesota while trying to heal from his injuries. The Boogy man Derek Boogard died from the drugs he was using to control the pain and an autopsy showed that his brain was suffering from the blows that he had taken from the many fights that he had fought while earning his living.
There was a period of time it felt like there was a fight and a hockey game broke out
Montreal canadiens vs the Quebec nordiques
I played hockey forever I love it and fighting is the sport, next to scoring
I remember when this happened. In my hometown. Tragic
1 death in the entire history of hockey, more people have choked to death on hotdogs in the stands.
🤣🤣🤣
McSorely is clearly in denial!
I lost all respect for him
She will always be remembered as "Marty McSorry" after Clark destroyed her face. The high stick was still justified.
15:40 Yzerman foretold of the rat Marchand.
Lol, such a good call.
That's exactly what I told my son watching this, guys like Marchand would not exist and guys like Crosby could have actually had a clean shot at good career.
I am a 5-decade Boston Bruins fan, and I despise Marchand. He is a disgrace to the uniform.
@@therealspeedracer Last year Marchand and Crosby both tied in points with 100 each.
Marchand is a very talented player who gets a bad rep from all of you jealous haters. . .
You'd all take his talent on your team though. If you heard your team got Brad Marchand at the trade deadline, you'd be thrilled. We love him on the Bruins.
And Jack Horgan you must be a liar. A Bruins fan for 5 decades and you despise Marchand? No way! Not a chance!
@@keepingitreel...8037 It don't take talent to lick people's faces and run from fights. If they're were still enforcers he would play the game a lot differently.
As a hockey fan since birth, I prefer the game without fighting. Full facemarks and bigger rinks, please.
Brian Burke from 1:20-1:30. Truer words were never spoken. Didn't really care too much for Burke, but this is such a right on prediction...and it's happened. Maybe not in wheelchairs, but injuries are so prevalent now, especially concussions, that this needs to be heard.
Fights lead to concussions to violent headaches to chronic depression to addiction to drugs, painkillers and alcohol to drug overdoses to death. You don't die in a fight, but die from complications associated with fighting.
It's part of the game. Always has been and so it should remain.
Robo Roth let me guess, you belong to an organized religion and believe in fairy tales and/or gods
Let me guess, you're a liberal.
@@FalconX79 WTF does political leaning have to do with any of this?
@@cycologist7069 It's well known (unless you're living under a rock) that liberals are pussies.
@FalconX79 It’s well known that those prone to insulting people instead of making a point have no actual argument.
there was a chart that a Netflix documentary showed that stated that only about 5% of concussions happen from physical fights, the other 95% are from dirty hits and bashes.
This breaks my heart.
So what they fight in wrestling and in UFC and other sports.
McSorely has done some idiot things in his time, but I'm amazed at how intellectual and articulate he is about the psychology of all of this......
I started to actually watch hockey in 2010 and 2011.. I still would go to games and usually see a fight or two. By the time I started to become a huge fan, fighting was coming out of the game quite a bit. Your seeing the enforcers being phased out. I've got mixed feelings in regards to fighting nowadays.. I still think it has it's place in the game in a limited fashion, but I don't go to games to see a fight.. One thing not mentioned that could help further reduce these fights- Refs doing a better job of calling and controlling the game before things get out of hand. Some players could also probably use some wise judgement in knowing when to or when it's needed to drop the gloves. I'm not advocating getting rid of fighting, but I think it could be controlled a bit better.
McSorley's on-ice character summed up.
The liquor in the stands is more dangerous than the fighting.
Fighting does have a place in hockey, but downplaying the danger of it is fucking dumb. In my opinion the ref should break it up after a helmet flies off.
@@magicsteve5523 the fact that a player has to be worried about getting pummeled for delivering a clean hit is absurd. A legitimate reason is one thing, but having to answer the bell for NOT breaking the rules is ruining the game. Shit, if skilled players aren't meant to be hit, they might as well have different coloured jerseys on that forbids the opposition from hitting them. If you have 18 skaters dressed in a game, you get 6 different coloured jerseys that you assign to the players you deem worthy of protecting. There, I fixed it...
Rest assured hockey fans, although fighting is down at probably its lowest levels, there is no movement to remove it from the game, and this comes straight from Gary Bettman's mouth. He actually put an uneducated reporter in her place when she asked him if fighting will ever be eliminated, www.si.com/nhl/video/2016/06/27/commissioner-gary-bettman-fighting
Thanks for posting this video. I can't see hockey without fighting, although I've seen a lot less fighting lately and I can't help but think that new rules are being implemented under the disguise of "fighting will stay."
When I watch the NHL playoffs and elite international hockey tournments I don't even think of fighting.
you are a scrub who has clearly never played hockey.. it is all these people who watch it for a month or a year or two and think they know everything about it. Highly doubtful Johnny Tsunami has ever been boarded or even played on a pond, fighting in hockey RARELY injures players watch any of the fights from last year and probably 1/20 actually caused any harm.
Obviously you have probably only gotten to house league. Once you get to juniors, you will understand why fighting is still in the game.
Because teams have started to not carry enforcers anymore which I believe is a mistake. Eventually players will start cheapshotting.
A fist fight is the perfect release of bundled up energy, you don't take it home you sort it right there and then. No matter how sheltered a kid is raised there will come a point where you will have to stand up for your self, we should raise the importance of sports like hockey that encourage and teach the fair fight. If everyone was taught to fight fairly and not punch people when they are down as well as learn to accept the fact of getting your ass beat when you loose, the world would be a much better place.
I don't mind getting hit cleanly, it actually makes me chuckle to myself especially if I had my head down. But when I see the Soviets kicking and dirty stick work that's a different story.
Im not against fighting, though Im surprised no one brought up International play. If fighting is so necessary, why isn't it in the International game at all. Also Im not sure but I don't think its in any Euro leagues either. I have watched a bunch of Czech pro league games and no fighting at all.
I know in the KHL fighting gets you evicted, and the SHL never really promotes nor has any fighting in it's events, and yes even in the Worlds fighting will, like in the KHL, get you evicted, I believe even suspended. And the Worlds is a powerhouse international league where Europeans and North Americans alike can share their love for the sport, and the KHL is one of the top sports leagues in Russia and other ex-soviet states, yet they have and never had fighting in their games. Funny huh.
All this despite that Russians are supposed to be the primitive brawlers according to us. Go figure
there's also a lot less hitting in the Int'l game.....it's a bigger ice surface which leads to a completely different style of play, but I'd take a stanley cup series over a gold medal game any day. and for the record, apparently so would the players...otherwise all the european players would opt to play in the KHL instead of the NHL....but that's not the case.
would you play in KHL for 1 mil/year or play the NHL for 3 mil/year ?
jessie md the KHL has the same fighting rules as the NHL. It’s just 5 minutes for fighting.
Completely biased, one sided argument. Junk.
RAFFA F; I’m so glad this limited point of view was discredited.
Open ice hits cause far more damage than these fights.
Until someone dies on live tv from a fight. There's a simple fix along the likes of MLBs steroid rules. Half season - full season - banned. Solved overnight.
elise eden u will never get why hockey players fight and I never expect you to. But fighting is a century long tradition the nhl has. Without goons, dirty hits would put far more people mhm stars in wheelchairs
elise eden Yeah but then even if you do that you only penalise the one who fights, leaving the same problem. This problem in hockey is the cheapshots and the hits that, by the way, cause way more injuries. Fighting is the actual solution to cheapshots. Ban fighting, and the problem isn’t fixed either way...
What happened to playing hockey. How many times did Gretzky fight? Play the game.
Fighting has been apart of the game since the NHL was created. It has never been a major problem. There are way worse things in hockey like checks from behind and cheap shots. Fighting is like a vital organ in hockey and should NOT be removed.
The fifth estate is so biased on getting rid of fighting
That's what the left does. Controls the media. The fifth estate is a perfect example.
Andrew Lester lol
The commie left
good, it never belonged in hockey... why do I say this? because we made the sport.. CANADA
should be charged with assault and server jail time.. your just using the excuse "its just a sport"
@@AmateurVolcanologist They just want to kill everything that is white and what makes white people happy, they don't care about the damage.
looking back at this now. fighting has evolved big time in hockey the players dont just fight but can score on demand as well its a part of the game and always will be. the death of that guy wasnt even from a fight but mere freak accident while in a fight which unfortunately happens from time to time. that sports caster is a baseball guy not a hockey guy and should stay out of hockey issues which don is right about people not apart of the hockey world have no clue why fighting is apart of the game.
What is a punch compared to getting slammed into the boards at 25 mph?
Hello! I hockey fan from Eastern Europe. I love canadian hockey, and I undestnad what fighting in NHL have long history, many toughguys played and fight and people with interest and pleasure watch toughguys chellenges. Fights the part of the hockey? - Yes, sure yes! BUT, now come time to finish with this part of the game. In last decades NHL met with problems of injuries, concussions problems and last sience researches about danger of concussions and it consequence for players health and psyhology. Fights and concussions have a strong link of reasons and consequence. Not all players have titanium health to stand so much damage and risk.
NHL and NHLPA need to prohibit fights and work with teams and players on the way to low level of aggressiveness in hockey games, and grow up level of playing etics and respect between players.
Someday it moment will happening and it will be begining of new hockey age, more safer to players, playing hockey without excessive risk.
It must be new era, and players will spent they psyhological energy on play hockey, and not to abuse between benches and words unmotivated aggression.
Fighting is as big an important in Hockey as skating. Take fighting out and see what happens. I went to see a fight and got a hockey game. One could say well just go watch a fight then,,, its not the same , its the fighting and rough nature of hockey combined with the sport and competition of it that makes it wonderful. Guys watchin their teammates back and feuds and such
As a tender for over 40 years, I have had many fights. I have never hit anyone with my gloves on. The code was instilled in me by my Father. With honour!!!
Plenty of people die crossing the street. We don't all stop crossing the street...
Nice Jersey, the one that says, "Whitby Dunlops".
Wait, so the dude's helmet fell off, then he fell and hit is head. Then they're trying to say he died because of fighting. Sounds a lot to me like he died because of a freak accident. But, I suppose that's debatable.
Freak accident? Getting hit by a bus is a freak accident...dancing around on ice in a fight that he is expected to participate in is always dangerous...and serious injury is always only a matter of time, as we see in this video. They need to regulate hockey like they regulate society.
But its not like the guy who he was fighting with thought "I'm going to kill this guy." Same thing can and does happen in a bar fight, or with friends that are dicking around. Everyone's heard of a story like "he got pushed/hit/punched once and hit his head wrong on the way down." Those are usually called freak occurences, why not this?
Would you promote fighting in a bar? It's not a freak accident if you are aiming at someone's head with a closed fist. And as long as you are actively trying to take someone's head off, killing someone does not depend on your intent to kill them...
Depends on the situation, if its some stupid pissing match over whose dick is bigger or some shit, then it ain't worth it, just walk away and be done with it. Only reason to ever throw a punch in a place like that is in defense; I would do it if I was backed into a corner or jumped, and I would definitely do it if I saw something like a dude roughing up a girl or multiple guys on one person.
And of course killing someone does not depend on intent, that's why it's called an accident. After the fact you could say 'guy X' killed 'guy Y' in a fight, but unless 'guy X' kept on 'guy Y' after he was lights out I doubt he meant to kill him.
Strawman argument. As it's not in a Bar.... The fact is you know what you're getting into every night and one reason they wear body armor, helmets gloves and padding. As that puck can kill you. The stick can kill you. The Ice can kill you.... Ask any Hockey player why they have great Dental Insurance. As most lose them in pretty quick order!
I might add. More people get killed, injured or paralyzed in Football. I'm talking American Football... Some just from Practicing in the heat!
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_American_football_players_who_died_during_their_career
Kypreos was doomed as soon as he put on that soul crushing Leaves sweater.
KoivuTheHab which part, the Leaves or the sweater? Maybe he has a strong fear of grammar nazis 😂
I met Battleship Bob Kelly, Dave Schultz, Steve Durbano, and Rick Tocchet - all superb fighters, and all really nice guys off the ice.
Rick Tocchet, now there was a fella who could play and fight!
@@beerthug Tocchet was a machine on the ice - gifted scoring touch and top notch fighter.
@@Tomatohater64 No kidding, never saw the guy take a play off!
@@beerthug Aahh, so he gambles, big deal - so do I. 🙄😌🤫
I always wondered what would happen if you didn’t fight....like when the square up happens you don’t do anything and the other player attacks you, are you forced to fight?
Meh. This was 10% about "the code" and 90% about if fighting should be accepted or not (with a very clear bias towards the answer being NO).
Thanks for the upload though.
You'll always have two different mindsets.... putting your kid in timeout or spanking your kid. These are grown men, they dont care about the consequences of a time out. They might think twice about an illegal hit if they know a spanking will follow.
Fighting is part of the game...and sure it is dangerous..but I can't envision hockey without it..
Fighting is a really inefficient way to get back at the opponent. If an opponent injures a teammate and you fight him, your team is now down 2 players and theirs is only down 1. If I was a head coach, I would tell my wingers to slap shot the puck as hard as they can into that opponents groin/shins instead. 80% of the time a ref won’t call a penalty and then you take that player out of the game for at least 5 minutes to heal. That way each team loses 1 player and the game is truly even.
I could die everyday i go to work.
It's obvious! Work should be banned.
If he didn't want to fight he shouldn't have dropped his gloves. End of story.
Well , Brashear tried not too and he got a stick to the head for it .....
Should people have to fight? One of the unwritten rules is no backing down from a challenge, if that rule stands then people who don’t want to fight will inevitably end up fighting, that’s what happened to Don Sanderson. If fighting is to remain in hockey, which I agree it should, no player should 1. have to fight, and 2. be expected to fight. If no one’s made to fight then fights and by proxy fight related injuries happen a lot less frequently.
It's insane that McSorley is blaming David and seems to be proud of what he did. Un-fucking-believable.