A 1905 Pathé 20 inch record 120rpm on a Timestep RA turntable
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- čas přidán 14. 09. 2015
- A 1905 Pathé 20 inch record played at 120rpm on a Timestep RA turntable using a 14" arm and the digital 14 - 170rpm controller. www.soundhifi.com/78rpm.html
- Hudba
Congratulations to the 1905 musicians on their flawless performance. Technical discussion aside, ultimately any recording is really about the music.
All in one take, in front of a giant horn, no less.
it must've stayed in America lol
Non dimentichiamo che la tecnica ci ha permesso di averle a casa...
You can notice the difference between a standard 78 rpm record recorded with a thick needle and 120 rpm one with an even higher sample rate and a saphir stylus which gave, as a result, an incredible amount of high frequency reproduction for that specific era, feels like hi-fi. (*while still being acoustic and recorded through a brass horn)
it's like a maxi-single compared to ordinary 7-inch both in therms of disc size and quality.
It does sound very good for its age but it is nothing like hi fi.
Not really ''sample rate''. There was simply more space along the groove to record, so more detail was captured.
I’m surprised that it had survived two world wars! Considering the fragility of shellac 78s.
Cool video!
And it still sounds pretty damn good for a record from that era.
It absolutely is. I have some 30cm/12inch shellacs from the 1920s and very few have survived without a big chunk being broken out of them.
Sounds alright most likely because its spinning at 120 RPM.
@Gavin Rice 120 rpm is correct. Pause at 1:20
It would sound weird being played at 33 rpm
@@newambassador376 you probably wouldn't even recognize it as music
Yup! The faster the disk spins the more data is collected in the same time. Therefore, higher fidelity!
lol
This is a shellac record with the grooves cut vertically rather than the more recent side-by-side arrangement. The record plays from the inner groove to the rim. Very cool. Previous Pathé discs were wax on a cement base. True story.
But because of the cement wax compound they are unplayable by now
@@maximilianfischer8899 Most layer records can't be played.
To increase quality and cut costs, they made records with layers of excellent shellac plastic with a cheaper core, that aren't long lasting.
This is an impressive performance of the French national anthem with about as full sound as was possible in 1905. One immediately notices the use of drums and cymbals, something that were often omitted from acoustical recordings.
That sounds incredible for a 115 year old recording,it could have been done last week
Man, what? It's impressive for a 1905 recording, but it's still a poor recording.
@@utub1473 Do you understand how limited the technology was for recording in 1905? The microphone wasn't invented for another 20 years.
@@OldiesAl yes, and due to 115 years old limitation, it wouldn’t have sounded like this when recorded last week. good is not the same as good for its time.
@@OldiesAl Jan Kersting basically summed it up.
@@jankersting When I said it could have been done last week o was referring to the condition of the record not the recording. Why is everyone so eager to criticise now?
A remarkable recording and surprising quality for an early acoustic.
It sounds far less "Ghostly" than most recordings from that era.
Nice set-up you have or had ( 6 years since you posted this )
Amazed at the size ( 20 inches !! ) , speed ( 120 RPM !! ) and the fact it plays from the label out. Weird, but interesting indeed.
I also found interesting information about this company and they way these were made :
- Pathé Records was a France-based international record label and producer of phonographs,
active from the 1890s through the 1930s.
- In 1905 the Pathé brothers entered the growing field of disc records.
At first they sold single-sided discs with a recording in wax on top of a cement base.
( Can you imagine how heavy and fragile those were ? Wax on top of Cement !! )
- In October 1906 they started producing discs in the more usual manner with shellac.
Even with this less eccentric material, the early Pathé discs were unlike any others.
The grooves were cut vertically into the discs, rather than across them.
They were also wider than other companies' records, requiring a special ball-shaped .005-inch-radius (0.13 mm)
stylus to play them. The discs rotated at 90 rpm, rather than 78 or 80.
They originally started on the inside, near the center of the disc,
spiraling out to the edge rather than the normal rim-start discs which were first produced in 1915.
- Pathé discs were commonly produced in 10 inch, 10 1⁄2 inch, and 11 1⁄2 inch sizes. 14 inch discs were also made,
as were very large 20 inch discs. ( Like the one shown here )
- The vertically-cut Pathé discs normally required a special Pathé phonograph equipped with a sapphire ball stylus.
The advantage of the sapphire ball stylus was its permanence. There was no need to change a needle after every record side.
Since most records and phonographs used a different playback method, various attachments were marketed that allowed
one to equip a Pathé phonograph to play standard, laterally-cut records.
Attachments were also sold to equip a standard phonograph to play Pathé records.
- In 1920 Pathé introduced a line of "needle-cut" records, at first only for the USA market.
The needle-cut records were laterally-cut discs designed to be compatible with standard phonographs,
and they were labelled Pathé Actuelle. In the following year, these "needle-cut" records were introduced in the United Kingdom
and within a few more years they were selling more than the vertical Pathés, even on the continent.
Attempts to market the Pathé vertical-cut discs abroad were abandoned in 1925, though they continued to sell in France until 1932.
- In mid-1922 Pathé introduced a lower priced label called Perfect.
- In January 1927, Pathé began recording using the new electronic microphone technology,
as opposed to the strictly acoustical-mechanical method of recording they used until then.
- In December 1928, the French and British Pathé phonograph assets were sold to the British Columbia Graphophone Company.
In July 1929, the assets of the American Pathé record company were merged into the newly formed American Record Corporation.
- This company as well produced some of the very first mixed material pressed records, in other words ''colored vinyl'' discs.
Okay, a bit of a read, but interesting history nonetheless ...
I've seen this Pathé recording of this exact song by the same band, but the label was different, it had a giant Pathé logo on top and looked
more like the 78 RPM labels or even regular looking labels you see now still though on a large 20 inch disc.
Which makes me ask ....
Did you use a special needle to play this ? or was it from their more compatible series made after 1920 ? ( Still, 100+ years ago !!! )
But I believe those were labeled '' Pathé Actuelle " So .... Hmmm.
Thanks for posting ! JP
Are you saying there is a fair chance this record was made in the 1920's? It certainly sounds like a recording made later than 1905-06.
I just noticed that it plays from the inside and ends at the outside. I recently got an LP that does that.It's called oreloB, (Bolero backwards) by Tacet.. It was made that way so that the quiet start of Bolero is at the inside of the record where there is the shortest distance per revolution. At the end of Bolero it gets quite loud with a lot going on so benefits from the extra length of the grooves at the outside.
Man, La Marseillaise almost didn’t fit in this record. That was cutting it short. And holy smokes! The cymbal high tones come in so splendidly!
Yes, the higher speed made capturing of a wider spectrum of frequencies possible.
Well the record is always going to end at the edge of the record (being that it plays outwards), it looked like there was probably room near the spindle to make the recording longer if they had needed.
Pathe recorded their discs from (industrial) wax cylinders. So they could work out the duration of music and accordingly start cutting the grooves as near to the centre as necessary. The bigger the disc, the louder the grooves - for playing outdoors, maybe in public events, etc.
This sounds way, way better than you usually expect from recordings of the era. No doubt the combination of a proper needle / pickup + electronics wizardry (because this is definitely not ordinary turntable setup) helps a lot on this. What a time to be able to unearth the sounds of the past so vividly. Thanks for sharing.
Who's still listening to this in 2020??? Hell, who from that era can still HEAR anything??? And yes, please line level this and upload it. Would love to hear it as clean as possible.
I’m listening in 2021
@@cyrusramirez5930 🔥
Built to last. The future is the past!
no one from that era can hear anything. They're all dead.
@@cyrusramirez5930 I'm listening in 2022.
AWESOME QUALITY, especially considering the limited frequency range at the time!
In the 22nd century, today's music might have been long gone, but I wouldn't care! I care about this PERFECT GEM!
Yes, it definitely sounds nice.... that higher RPM really makes a difference, and that awesome turntable and the rest of that setup really brings out the nice quality of that recording.
My man a time traveler
Never heard the frech antemp so clear and fast played. Fantastic!
You may laugh. But i believe there is a sprit if you will , captured in these old acoustically mechanical recordings. The sound went directly from the instruments through the air onto the record. Nothing else touched or processed or altered the sound. I don't beleave in ghosts but when you listen to these in person up close you can't help but feel like you are being touched by a ghost.
Wonderful to hear this !
Stunning quality for 1905! Vitaphone sound track discs also read from the inside out. Damn good sound considering the orchestra was playing into an acoustical horn. Thanks for sharing this.
I didn't know that. Thank you.
Wow! Sounds amazing
Just to think that this plays at quadruple the speed of most LPs.
Amazing sound for an acoustic recording! Wow.
Superbe repiquage !
This is awesome, thanks for sharing 😃
Truly excellent, I love it :) what a wonderful playback system too, very nice, ...what I don't get is why anybody would give this a thumbs down, quite odd isn't it ....keep up the super videos, so informative, thank you :)
Please record this on a pc with a line level
@Sean Mondout that makes no fucking sense. 1) this record was poorly record and 2) archiving sound recordings made over 100 years ago are important.
Analog is not some purely magical way of transmitting sound. Get over yourself and your preconceptions.
@Sean Mondout By "Advantage", I presume you mean warmth (ie noise) and resolution. When recording from vinyl, you can of course keep the noise if you like, and digital resolution is far beyond human hearing, so you gain the digital advantage over analog by digitising it. Unless the advantage you were referring to is its longevity as an archival format, in which case vinyl is likely to outlast any current digital medium unless the data files are regularly transferred to new media.
@Sean Mondout As far as I know, at the current time, CZcams doesn't have infinite storage and bandwidth so we can hear truly analogue sound on it, so we have to make do with digital.
And, yes, a line recording would be more accurate than a shitty camera mic.
@@FernieCanto no ones "making" do with digital. Digital line level recordings record exactly what's been cut into the record. You can limit the frequency response (like to 150h to 14kh for example) to get a more acoustic sound.
But line level to a computer perfectly archives the disc.
@@matthewpalmer9820 "Digital Line level recording is what's cut into the record" ok, sure bud. Just one question: How did they record digitally without a computer?
Sounds perfect!
flawless accurate speed - only on technics. great video.
Very cool turntable. I see it is designed to play just about any style record you can put on the platter. Very neat, and quite a nice sounding recording.
I looked on line and couldn't find anything about 20 inch records or records that play back at 120 rpm. This video is the only thing.
What I’ve found interesting is that early transcription recordings were done from the inside to the outside of the disc at various speeds depending on the type of recorder that was used at the time after the mid 1920’s.
it sounds really good ngl
Very impressive in view of the date of the recording.
Could you post a line-out version of this? I'd like to have a go a remastering the audio
Just when I thought I had seen every obscure type of record... What a treasure! Pre-WWI, too.
Wow! Amazing! Good song choice as well! My second favorite National Anthem!
David LoganSr - And your first choice? Tell me and I'll tell you mine. Hint - it isn't my own.
Well, I’m originally from Baltimore where Fort McHenry is located. My 3rd being God Save the Queen, then Deutschland Uber Allese(sp?) as my Ancestral home is Austria/Hungary and Germany. Then Meadowland though I have no known Russian Ancestry.
Yours must be Great Britain based on your name.
David LoganSr - Canadian actually, with strong roots in England and Ireland. But my favourite anthem would be from Russia. Amazing song. O Canada is a nice hymn and I like singing it, but that one is truly anthemic.
Yes! I believe that it’s called Meadow Land! Great song/anthem
Interesting that it goes from the inside out, like a CD or laserdisc.
That helped prevent the pickup from skating inward.
It also improved the frequency and dynamic response at the end of the recording,
which is usually where it is most needed due to increasing instrumentation and volume.
@@spacemissing Makes you wonder why outside-in became the standard, especially since this is from 1905
@@RadioactivFly Outside start is easier when everything is manual.
And think of this: Had inside start become the norm, record changers would have been nearly impossible unless all discs were the same size. Having the finish on the inside allows for a standard runout that can be used on any size disc.
You can order some classical records on Amazon that do the same thing today, for certain compositions. Even more important since these particular records only spin at 33.3 RPM
Years and years ago, my dad sometimes made home recordings on acetate records. The labels had on them "Outside in" "Inside out" and you checked the proper square next to the words.
This is the closest to the actual source that will probably ever be heard on any recording.
For a moment it reminded me of all you need is love
Same lol
Wow that turntable look very futuristic, something I would think that is made today. Funny how to see we are still using the same technology as 100 plus years ago
That's what I thought at first, but it's an old shellac rcord, not an old record player. Timestep still manufactures new turntables, but this may be a modofied Technics from the 90's.
Right? If it wasn't from the 1900's, I would've guessed that's a Technics!
At first I thought 1905 was a typo there, but instead I realized that record discs did exist back then. Records did have vastly superior audio quality to wax cylinders, which were far more common and affordable than records back in the 1890s and early 1900s.
Great sound,Sousa was great quality too😉
Referred to as 20 inch in English-speaking countries these were nominally 51 Cm diameter . Given how Skating wears the inner side of a groove more it may have been a blessing these did not have the music recorded laterally , but vertically . They might still benefit from antiskating adjustments .
19 in a Half inches Jeez that’s a big Pathé Record for 1905
Probably later than 1905 (unless the original cylinder from which this was dubbed was recorded then): The earliest Pathé discs, ca. 1905/6, were pressed on a black wax surface, similar to cylinders, which was bonded to a backing of a cement-like compound, elaborately lithographed. Those early discs hardly ever survive in playable condition, due to the difference in expansion causing the wax surface to crack and disintegrate. Pathé soon moved to more conventional shellac pressings, like this one.
fascinating... cheers...
Congrats
Excellent sound from an entirely.mechanical acoustic recording
Interesting: it plays from the center to the edge, as if it were anticlockwise, right?
But it was still clockwise. If it had been played anticlockwise, it would have run from the outside to the inside and you would have heard subtle messages like "I buried Paul." and "Kill Sharon Tate."
Yeah, it can improve the sound quality on any piece of music that ends with a loud “blast” because the further a groove is from the centre , the lower the distortion. On a lot of conventional 78s if there’s a loud passage at the end you can hear some distortion . Plus the high speed, vertical recording, and inside to outside playing helped make Pathe records very difficult to play on non pathe machines, as this video shows
Interesting that the track moves from inside towards the outside.
It was cut that way because classical recordings often had crescendo parts, and the edge of the disc has superior sound quality.
So strange to see a center start record playing out and ending at the edge.
『録音時間を伸ばす＝大きなディスクを作る』。好きですね、こういう思考。
I never heard a sound like this in an acoustic recording. This is really Amazing! Why it sounds so good?
I also never saw a 20 inch record running at 120rpm...
New discovered for me.
Fantastic! Did you used any post effects, like compression etc? or it is just flat EQ, with RIAA bypassed? Pathe & Edisons sounds amazing on old, acoustic machines! I am waiting for MC cartridge from AT, with 4.0 X 1.0 styli for vertical grooves on Pathe, Edison and early Brunswick's.
Can’t beat it, love these gramophones
At the start I heard the start of all you need is love in my head
How did you do that.
This is magnificent.
Should be out on remastered vinyl
Please transfer this record! The quality is superb and you have great equipment for playing this disc so it would be great with a .wav or .flac download link!
i swear that beginning sound like all you need is love
It went through the entire disc for that one song. 😳
I'll never heard this 20 inch vinyl and speed 120rpm before... That's sightly weird is! 😦
That beginning almost sound like The Beatles, “All You Need Is Love”.
Because it IS... "La Marseillaise'
@@ksteigerThanks for the title. I’ve now realised why All You Need Is Love sounded familiar.
perfect cartridge EQ amp ！
The thumping sound is quite unfortunate. Is there any way to mitigate it without completely disabling the low frequencies?
I guess you can use 2ch oscilloscope to view slot amplitude and direction
When it first started, I was wondering why the arm was so close to the end, then when the camera focused back on the record, it seemed to be near the beginning. Then, BINGO, I figured out what was really going on. I guess they cut records every which way back then, but this one still sounds new. Good job of demonstrating it.
Bravo! How do you get it to track so well? I guess all my center start Pathes are a bit warped. I have a good turntable but the arm bounces all over the place.
2:24 and here we have a glimse of future music
im suprised that format didnt take off and the large discs were for garden partys and loud concerts
I feel like i'm listening to a woody pecker episode xD
You will always be able to play this disc. I wonder if a cd will still play or have anything to play it on after more than 100 years
CD's could still be around and players available to play them on over 100 years from now, providing human life on Earth has survived for that long, which gets more questionable as time goes on.
@@donjohnstone3707 You are right. CDs will probably outlast us with all that is going on in the world. The virus China is messing about with shows that things can suddenly change. If it had been a bit stronger that our bodies could not get over then it could have all come to an end now.
How would one have played this when it was new? Did they sell special players that were compatible with 20 inch discs?
Apparently they were special and because of the grove size and speed were able to fill a local hall without the use of electricity.
No Beatles here, but it's record-breakingly big :)
I have 16-inch records, but I don't have a turntable, I saw some but they are very expensive. I would like to buy one but cheap, because I have no money.
How the fuck is that so clean?!?!?!
I never knew they made records that ran at 120rpm.
That's great! How do you do that? How is it connected?
Two corrections. 135 RPM and about 1910.
I did not know they made 120 rpm records? how does that speed gadget work?
Curious to know if there’s a side B?
Any budding engineers out there that can give an idea of what bit bandwidth this would be equivalent to? 😀
Thats a big ass record.
Sized Just like a TV screen --- call it twenty, but it's really only nineteen and a half.
Had I not long known that about TVs, I might have said I felt cheated, but it's no surprise.
Not many folks left who remember the VHS vs Betamax war, um, er I mean spiral-out vs spiral-in war.
The guys blowing those horns didn't know WW1 was coming.
I can hear Victor Laszlo singing
Why did Pathe make records that played at 120 and 90 rpm? I am surprised they didn't use the standard speed and how the records started from the centre
In 1905, their was no standard speed. The early years of the record business was like the wild west. There were many variations of records, not to mention the various law suits that were being fought back and forth between different companies for control of different technology. Sound familiar?
How much time?
Sounds better than an Itunes download. Leave it to the French to come up with the perfect format.
Sounds good for a 115 year old recording!
This is the right way to make the record. It starts from inside. This makes the dynamics getting better towards the end which is important in the classicl music. Wonder why this didn’t get standardized.
There were some classical records mastered inside-out for this reason, but at that time, it was to compensate for the gradually worsening sound quality of the disposable steel needle used as the song played.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unusual_types_of_gramophone_records#Inside-to-outside_recording_and_hill-and-dale_recording
So this predates Jack White's Lazaretto album by 109 years! Groove that starts at the center!
Are you still active? Your website seems like it's been inactive for years.
Is it possible to do something similar with a Thorens turntable?
Sorry no, for many reasons. Dave
@@davecawley100 Hi Dave, yes I had to expect that. 😥
Can it be only done with a Technics table? Only the SL-1200 model?
How do you make it spin at 120 rpm?
Go to the URL and find out !
Do they have the same thickness as an Edison Diamond Disc? It looks to be about the same thickness as one at 00:41.
Yes they are the same thickens !
I’m guessing John P Sousa Marching Band.
Incredible! Never heard of a 120 rpm record. Wow, at that high rate of rotation, who does the stylus even keep from flying off? The centrifugal force must be pretty big at that speed.
Mk, good question. However, centrifugal force is only felt on the objects that are rotating. The record is rotating. The stylus is standing still.
If the stylus were at a perfect right angle to the hole/spindle, the only force would be a very gentle pull towards the outside, due to the groove winding. But since that perfect angle only happens at two places typically, there would be an additional tendency for the stylus to pull inward and/or outward, depending on the stylus' angle to the hole. This is commonly called "skating," and is usually compensated for on turntables by use of an "antiskating" mechanism which needs a very delicate adjustment linked to the tracking force and shape of the stylus tip. But the speed of the rotation of the record makes no difference.
He is using a unit to change the speed digitally in real time
Effectivement, les disques saphir Pathé qui débutaient au centre, avec le titre gravé à la main sans étiquette, étaient ensuite majoritairement à 95 tours/mn environ, mais je constate ici que certains avaient continué avec la même vitesse de 120 tours/mn que les cylindres, qui eux-même ont tourné au tout début à 160 tours/mn !... On a constamment réduite la vitesse : 160, puis 120, puis 95, puis 80, puis 78, puis 33 1/3 et 45, voire 16 2/3 tours/mn. Et j'ai vu sur CZcams un 8 1/3 tours/mn 30 cm, pour la parole (durée : environ 6 heures) ! Mais le compact disque est revenu à des grandes vitesses de 458 tours/mn au début à 197 tours/mn à la fin : fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lecteur_de_CD#:~:text=Rotation%20du%20disque&text=Pour%20une%20vitesse%20lin%C3%A9aire%20de,diam%C3%A8tre%20116%20mm%20(environ).
I wonder what they would think of this Generation..2022?
Где свет? Почему всё в темноте?