Attempting to Defend Sonic Forces | Retrospective in Reverse
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- čas přidán 5. 08. 2024
- Hi everyone! So, I didn't actually think Sonic Forces was as terrible as people made it out to be. I know that sounds nuts, but I think a lot of the hate was blown way out of proportion.
Hope you enjoy my retrospective!
00:00 Introduction
03:58 Story
09:43 Music & Aesthetics
10:52 Gameplay
14:56 Stages
19:15 DLC
19:46 Conclusion
#sega #sonic #sonicforces - Hry
So far ive watched the gameplay section of the video and i think the main reason a lot of long term sonic fans dont like the game is due to the level design being very very simplistic. You briefly mentioned the boost to win argument at the end of the section and i would say that for a majority of the levels it is true. While boost gameplay by it's very nature lends itself to more "hallway" level design sonic forces takes that to the extreme. Levels like mortar canyon, sunset heights, and luminous forest all suffer with long stretches of nothing happening.
So far im enjoying the video it's nice to see different opinions
Thanks for watching! So keep in mind I played forces prior to Generations. So I found these stages very enjoyable but by the time I got to Gens I think I started to understand a lot of the negativity behind the view of the forces stages. I still enjoy Forces, but I can respect that fans waited years for it and were underwhelmed.
Loving this series! I haven’t seen anyone talk about Forces without being super negative, so this video was a fresh breath of air. I will say, however, that you overlook a huge (and arguably the main) reason for the community’s Forces’s hate when you simplify it down to everyone having high standards. You mention that, if released today, Forces might do better, and I disagree. Forces is undoubtably a better game than Boom, so it actually released in the perfect time, when people were begging for anything with a hint of fun in it. Had this game just popped onto the scene, I believe more people would share your view, and count this game as the beginning of a redemption for Sonic. Unfortunately, this game did not pop onto the scene.
This brings me to the main conduit for Forces hate: the marketing. It cannot be understated how much this game was hyped up by Sega. I still remember the fever that swept the Sonic community when the first teaser trailer released. Everyone was excited for this game. Sega promised a darker, more serious story; the return of fan-favorite (and some fan-hated) characters; the boost gameplay after years without; and a huge cast of characters. With that hype, Forces had no chance of success unless it was Adventure 3, which it most certainly is not. You mention how we shouldn’t take the story too seriously, but that is what Sega told us to do. People give Colors and Generations a pass for their simplistic, goofy stories because those games were not sold on the story, and the gameplay holds up. Forces, however, was sold almost entirely on the story, and it disappointed greatly. Fans were expecting a Frontiers level story, but what they got was 06. The gameplay has the same problem. Saga sold us on the boost formula by comparing it to Colors and Generations, but we got brainless gameplay and levels designed by people who had never worked on a Sonic game before. The bosses were hyped up as returning villains, but we only fight two of them. The scene where classic Sonic defeats Chaos is Forces in a nutshell: watching Sega destroy their promises. Had these promises not been made, I don’t think fans would love Forces, but it wouldn’t be nearly as despised as it is today. For fans, Forces does not represent the fall of Sonic, per se, but the fall of Sega’s ability to make competent Sonic games. Of course, this was overturned by Frontiers, a game that actually underpromised and well overdelivered.
In my opinion, if Forces released today with the same marketing, it would actually be even more hated thanks to the high expectations set by Frontiers. Even if it underpromised like Frontiers did, it would still be seen as a step down in all aspects save for perhaps graphics. On the other hand, if Sega had not so ludicrously overhyped Forces when it did release, it would have probably been received as a rough step up and be looked back on as a stepping-stone to greater things.
I never thought about the marketing aspect of it, but it completely makes sense as to why I would enjoy it since I was never part of that hype. Where I'm sitting it just feels like a $40 budget game Sega released to us, so I can definitely see why it drove ppl mad
DUDE you are the BEST! Thanks for acknowledging Eggman is a real threat and it's only Sonic that keeps him in check, i've said this before on Reddit, Tumblr etc, the only reason Eggman is seen as a joke is due to the Game Genre he is in, if he was in DC or Marvel he'd be a real threat.
My main issue with Sonic Forces is Eggman finally won and it wasn't explored enough, i'd love of done some levels where we are barely surviving (something like Sonic SatAM and trying to find Sonic. If anything this Game would've been perfect for the more "Mature Eggman" from Sonic Adventure 1/2 and 06 to return.
Another thing I disliked is the name "Death Egg Robot" Boss at the end, I think it should've been called "Egg Hydra".
I'm glad you enjoyed the take. Something I thought about later, from a story perspective, if Forces steered deeper into the serious tone and worked more on the production value I think they could've found a game that appeals more to fans of the adventure games. Instead they only kinda went halfway and didn't really please anyone.
@@NintenDeen This seems to be a big issue with Sega ever since 06 (which was THEIR fault), they play too close on the safe side.
Its pretty good to me. Short live but i do hate how they left out the super sonic
FINALLY SOMEONE WHO DOESN'T SHIT ON FORCES
I am one with the Force
@@NintenDeen may the Force be with you.
I dislike myself for saying that as i am not a star wars fan lol
😂😂😂
Nice review, very nuanced! Personally I think this game is overhated. I think if it did not come out after the previous Sonic games, I think it would not have been nearly as hated as it it was, since it was unarguably a downgrade to what came before. Do you think this game is fundamentally flawed as a whole, or do you think it is redeemable to a certain extent so that it is possible to make it great.
I don't think it's fundamentally flawed at all. The biggest issue I think this game has is they marketed it to make everyone over hyped for it when in reality it was a simple $40 game. Idk if that's the fault of Sega or the fan base over hyping it 🤷🏻♂️
@NintenDeen Yeah, I think some concepts had potential, but parts of the story I think doesn't really fit, like Sonic being tortured. It is evident that Sega wanted this to be good, but I think the development was hectic and they didn't know how to improve and build from previous games, so they had no idea what to do, and I think that's why it ended up like this. Also, they lied saying it was the same team that made Generations and etc, so yeah it was overhype. Do you think the boost gameplay can still be expanded and improved upon, or is it too limited?
Mp?
Sonic Forces Is Okay.
I Don’t Think Its A Bad Game, It's Kinda Difficult To Find A Bad Game.
Yeah I'm starting to realize I think I enjoy every sonic game lol
I don't think you went soft with Forces, it IS an enjoyable game, I enjoyed it, and I am very critical of everything in general. But it's a bit... "mediocre"? It's not just the high standards that people always put on Sonic (after sh*tting on it) but also of everything that was supposedly being sold to you. I mean, where's the chaos of a "war"? Where are the Shadow and Chaos' boss fights? The trailers of this game and the game itself felt like constant false advertisements, and if you were invested, you got frustrated. I mean, heck, while playing I was wondering who and what Infinite was, maybe a nuanced Eggman android due to something that Amy said in Final Judgement, but, it was some petty guy... The problem with Forces is that while you play it you see potential that wasn't explored.
I think you were fair, but I do disagree with some things:
1.- I know you're doing this in reverse but... I think they did a great job with the Wispons as a special ability of the avatar, they gave you variety and they allowed you to use different paths, which I do think it's important in a Sonic game. I really hated the wisps in Colors as I felt that they gave you their power in exchange of your control and Sonic lost part of his skillset to justify the Wisps' existence.
2.- I never felt that the stages were repetitive? But too short and simple (heck, many of them would be better if they were divided into two parts, instead of radically changing their design and aesthetic in the middle, I loved the beginning of Network Terminal, and hated that I had to enter the chemical plant in the middle of it). Also, the use of "cinematic" moments ruins the gameplay for me, I wan't to avoid the trains and the snake by myself, I wish I could run on spaceships while being destroyed, I really really hate the emphasis on QTEs. The double boost should've had something else, like avoiding walls or pitfalls.
3.- If Sonic Forces was released today, it would also get criticized, the controls, the lack of content, the writing, it has a lot of issues. If anything, I think Sonic Forces would be praised if it was released before Unleashed, because the problem with Forces is that it feels that it was a downgrade of Unleashed and Generations.
I do appreciate the game tho, it came in a dark time of my life, so, I really appreciate it, and it's enjoyable, I play a stage or two from time to time (really love Egg Gate), but the game gave you too many promises for its own good.
Outside of Hover cus of the lightspeed dash that complaint doesn't make sense cus the stuiff ppl relate to sonic in abilities either R unnecessary or aren't conducive in the boost gameplay. Most of them genuinely wouldn't be possible for him outside of the wisps too. They're more a reason to allow him to use a form of those moves since he wouldn't have otherwise cus it's a boost game
@@nightlydata2181 I do think you could have the spindash instead of the pink wisp and just wall jump or boost instead of the laser, but yeah hover is the worst contender.
But what I also mean is that you HAVE to use them in some levels and, when they're optional, you just skip parts of the level automatically. It always feels forced or not earned.
The new Jade ghost was kinda neat tho
But that's what I would praise about Forces wisps, you can only choose one so you would explore the level differently every time.
This also happens with Superstars, with the emerald powers, you CAN use them, they're just not required, nor cut the level directly.
Now that I think of it, Wisps in Colors feel like the gimmick in Cyber station zone, but like, throughout the whole game.
@@CC-ks6nm Spindash falls mostly under redundant. It's more the spindash was added after they came up wit spike rather than an excuse to bring back spindash. It jus isn't necessary cus all the upsides R done more efficiently in boost. The whole point is to use them in the game they're a core part of the gameplay. The greatest evidence is that it's impossible to get an S-rank without them. While def inspired Superstars is still beholden to bein a classic game & thus uses it to add more to the gameplay without changin the core mechanics of the game which is Y u can largely go without usin them if u don't want to. It also leans into the "new super mario bros. sonic edition" martkettin they pushed even in the 4 player co-op to grab the family crowd. They're nice but they have tons of issues in implementation in superstars in comparison to the wisps in colors
@@nightlydata2181 but like you just said what my problem is, Wisps are obligatory, then, to me, it's a bunch of obligatory gimmicks throughout the whole level, so I never feel like I'm enjoying playing the level itself, I'm just doing what I'm told to do.
Whatever the design mentality was, Superstars and Forces making the wisps optional gives me more control (and then Forces messed that up with QTEs but whatever)
Also, I understand that the spindash is redundant, but it was cool having it in the Rush series and it's not like Colors uses all the face buttons anyways. Also, having the pink wisps just makes you think "damn the spindash was a thing".
I do understand what you said and it's an amazing insight, so, thank you for that, but still you're just telling me why I cannot like that game.
Again, it's like Cyber Station Zone being the rule and not the exception, the game.
I mean, the Shadow game had an ability to skip a whole section of a level, and still it was optional.
@@CC-ks6nm idek how to start this without soundin combative but most games u can only do wut it tells u. I get wut u mean but still. I like it was in Rush too but that comes off more as a punishment that still allows u a way to get through certain parts of the level in a necessary but not as good way as the boost. "Look how much u suck u gotta resort to this, if u jus maintained ur boost better u'd be over this forever ago. Now u've eaten time & shall get a much lower rank haha." Colors on normal Wii hardware wit no nunchuck would not allow for the spindash without replacin somethin else hence wisp takin over the boost button durin transformation(remember u gotta shake to activate). These games R supposed to be simple to control like an arcade game so u only get 2 buttons at most if they can get away wit it. There R some cool skips both wit & without the wisps.