Is Stockholm Syndrome the same as Trauma Bonding?
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- čas přidán 11. 07. 2024
- This video answers the question: What is the Stockholm Syndrome? I've also had some other questions that are related to this asking about whether “trauma bonding” is really the same thing.
The term Stockholm Syndrome is theorized as related to other in some way like “identification with the aggressor,” “trauma bonding,” “battered women's syndrome” and “learned helplessness.” This gets into a controversial area because Stockholm Syndrome has been expanded into a lot of these other areas, so we see a parallel between hostage taking and intimate partner violence and other situations similar to that. Where did we get the term “Stockholm Syndrome?” In 1973, there was a bank robbery in Stockholm, Sweden where the bank employees who were held hostage during the robbery bonded with and eventually defended their captors. There have been many other examples of this phenomenon. In the United States in 1974, we see a famous case with an heiress named Patty Hearst. She was kidnapped by a violent left-wing group and eventually she joined them and committed crimes along with them. More recently, we see the case Elizabeth Smart, who was kidnapped and had opportunities to escape but didn't take them.
De Fabrique, N., Romano, S. J., Vecchi, G. M., & Van Hasselt, V. B. (2007). Understanding Stockholm Syndrome. FBI Law Enforcement Bulletin, 76(7), 10
Mehlman-Orozco, K. (2018). Projected heroes and self-perceived manipulators: understanding the duplicitous identities of human traffickers. Conference Papers -- American Society of Criminology, 1-20.
Jameson, C. (2010). The “Short Step” from Love to Hypnosis: A Reconsideration of the Stockholm Syndrome. Journal for Cultural Research, 14(4), 337-355.
Obeid, S., & Hallit, S. (2018). Correlation of the Stockholm syndrome and early maladaptive schemas among Lebanese women victims of beating into domestic/marital violence. Couple and Family Psychology: Research and Practice, 7(3-4), 171-182.
I think the more frequently we are abused the more any affection feels like real love.
Yes!
Well said.🤔😑
Yes "feels" that the right word!!!
Agreed, but then again, not all kidnappers abuse the people they kidnap. I’m thinking of like parents or family who kidnap their children to keep them from having access to another parent they believe is harmful or abusive.
Yes. I got finely duped and it worked. I think this stocholm is happening again
I was diagnosed with Stockholm syndrome, my identity was changed, did not know who I was or what I even liked personally, he told me what I liked and who I was. I was isolated, there was great fear but some kindness, not much. My captor was my husband.
🥲so painful
If my mother wasn’t dead, This is her story.
I left mine!
I am soooooo sorry! I feel your pain. Did you have any children? If so, do you still have contact with them? Best tip for recovery?
I had 9 full term children. He wanted me barefoot and pregnant. My children were under his mind control, I used to hide in the closet and so I knew what he was telling them. One day when Jesus comes their eyes will be opened and they will know I was not sick or crazy. And I look forward to a true embrace just as we all do.
I’d like to hear more from Dr Grande on maladaptive schemas. I love how many topics seem to crop up on this channel.
Yes so would I....
Just noticed how old your comment is but I wanted to say he has a video on them.
@@caeliamoonshadow Thanks for this update! I was just wondering if he made a subsequent video on these.
Interesting that the more frequent the abuse, the more symptoms are seen. Maybe the more often a victim is in fear, the more powerful the moments of “kindness” are to create a bond. If the abuse is more frequent, it would make sense that the moments of non-abuse would create a more intense feeling of relief.
yeah that makes sense to me you need the opportunities to feel compassion for the abuser/captures
That accords with my experience.
@@srorrim The abuser? not if you have been abused
Control freaks.
A powerful psychological weapon if used correctly and on the right personality.
There is also one big difference in hostage situations and abusive relationship dynamics. The hostage taker is a stranger, hence their victims meet them while behaving violently bad. In an intimate relationship, the abuser already has made a connection with his victim, and has shown his good side first until the victim has become attached. This fact alone explains alot when you think about it.
And sometimes restrictions are made to look like good things. ''I don't want you to wear this'' gets twisted into ''He doesn't want to share me, he's just worried'' and then more and more things rise to the surface. If my Ex would've just said what he expected from the beginning, I would've run away. But he was smarter than that.
@@misery8264 I know. Mine would be like" I only got so mad you were late coming home because I worry about you". Yeah. I know
Shannon Mayer And after the breakup you just sit there and go through ''cute moments'' or ''small difficulties'' and you see one trap after another that you gladly walked into...
@@misery8264 And sometimes actually feeling guilty for leaving.
@@shannonmayer18 It really helped me to talk to friends and family about things I thought were normal. They pointed a lot of stuff out that I didn't even think about, and now I'm happy that I left him. I don't regret it at all. I hope you get to that point as well. One day, you're going to wake up and the only thing left from that relationship is strength and the knowledge that no one is ever going to be able to do something like this to you again. Even if that feels impossible to you now, it is.
I get it. You think he's kind, or not so bad, because he doesn't drink, hit you, scream at you, even though he verbally humiliates, emotionally abandons, keeps score of perceived slights. You were attracted to him because his behavior was familiar, just like your family's. Takes a while to learn. Glad I did. 🙂
It wasn't like that when I was held hostage in a bank robbery; I've had multiple traumas, even though it's only a few. I hated his guts for using me as a shield and then shooting me; and while I was being held hostage by him, I wished he would suffer and drop dead. Then I hated myself for all my angry thoughts.
@@VickiBee what with the tower and now this I can't imagine what you have been through ..omgoodness!
chris lane again I agree. I was “comfortable “ with the abuse. Did I like it? Hell no, but it was just like being back home
So accurate, I got chills.
Never thought it was familiar or comfortable at all. The Behavior always struck me as WEIRD. My thought was always: awe this guy must have had a bad homelife. Maybe I can help.
Idk if I had trauma bonding or Stockholm syndrome. I know I was abused in every way there is, but I still felt sorry for my abuser. He had a bad childhood and that instantly mad me feel bad for him. The only problem I had with leaving him though was when I saw or heard him crying. That would instantly cause me to forget about how badly he treated me, but it was never like omg i miss him so much i want to get back with him. And I would beg people not to beat him up. During the abuse I knew he was treating bad but it didn't really register to me that I was being abused i guess its because I felt so bad for him that I over looked it. It seemed at the time he was the only one who was there for me too.
lucky for me I stopped feeling sorry for him and then I realized he knew I felt sorry for him.
Anyway like I said Idk if I had it or not but I'm thinking maybe people get it because they feel empathy or sympathy towards the person doing them harm.. Their empathy or sympathy blinds them to the truth about the one doing them harm🤷
same i feel that
Agree. I think we feel that way organically but I also believe they, as abusers, will build the | our lives in such a type of structure/model, we are covertly encouraged to believe they aren’t really abusing us, either by recognition or by definition when we do realize there is something wrong about the way they treat us.
It took me years to see someone abusing me and their abuse had devastating effects on every aspect of my life. I spent my entire life feeling shame and guilt because of their actions-I was conditioned to believe it was my fault they were abusing me because I was bad in a myriad of ways *(which changed day to day).
This Stockholm is real and I have gone through it and I can say this, it is a very debilitating experience to feel so guilty and feel personal shame and feel sadness toward the person who abused me. Even recently I had someone say, ‘you sound like a battered wife-‘...
@@michelemurphy3541 I understand.
I'm going through the end of one right now,
Not the first one, but doing everything in my power to make sure it's the last, therepy, doing everything legally I can.
Yes, it truly does have devastating consequences to our lives, mental health.. and they know that.
And they love it, because it gives them power. And although I do my best to not show him any reaction, it does impact me severely and I know he knows, he knows because he is stalking me.
And he knows that I can't even leave my home because of him..
If I try, he's there.
@@katdoll8226 best wishes in your new journey of your life.
@@michelemurphy3541 thank you 🙏
The Stress responses, fight, flight, FAWN,freeze, and fatigue, if they fawn in a traumatic experience, that could explain the Stockholm syndrome.
Chris Nyquist .... I was thinking along the same lines that this was akin to a psychological/ emotional break or fracturing as a more primitive response due to overstimulation/ trauma etc etc
More so reminiscent of a POW situation or MK Ultra trauma based mind control although that all leads into the Dissociative side of things I guess.. Very Interesting Indeed
Every year since he's been in San Quentin, I've written to the parole board and asked them NOT to let him have parole. He held me & 14 others hostage during a bank robbery, then he shot me when "handing me over" to police. I died for 10 minutes. IMO he murdered me for 10 minutes and that's what I tell the Parole Board.
All these OTHER people think I'm terrible but never SAY what they think of me dying for 10 minutes because of what HE did. If it weren't for LA County's Life Flight medics I'd still be dead.
I don't want him out. Getting shot, dying & being saved changed my life forever. I can't do things I used to do bc of a loss of oxygen to my brain that will never be revived.
He should stay in there forever. as far as I'm concerned.
Vicki Bee glad you are still here. Bless you. What a story.
I have unburdened myself of forgiving my abusers and broken my traumabond with them.
Agreed.
❤️❤️❤️yr so strong
In which case have you unfortunately been involved, if I may ask?
You are amazing!! You do what you have to do to live your best life!
I am a male combat veteran; I developed SS when I stayed with abusive wife for 12 years. I didn’t know anything until police came and questioned me one day about a 911 call.
I came from abusing single mom, then married a women that was familiar. I understand this now, but I am broken because of years of abuse.
It’s a very long story; I am writing my experience down to try and make a book to study.
I met my wife in Iraq during combat
Did you write a book yet? Youre story is just like mine. I’m just realizing things now.
I wonder if elements of the Stockholm Syndrome are at play in the psychology of military basic training?
Your superiors degrade and insult you even to the point, sometimes, of physical abuse, but most, by the time they graduate, are fiercely loyal to their chain of command.
I really believe so.
I'm in the military and I don't really think so, only because you have to rely on each other to get through situations. I never really felt that in boot camp or now. You do raise an interesting point
No
Good question 🙋
Great point. I was stuck in that false loyalty to the abuser in my life was supertough to cut free from but now i have.
One thing I didn't hear you mention Dr. Grande, is this: the level of honesty or integrity the victim has, even if it's twisted, becomes an issue in the mind of the victim. I'm a victim of abuse. I felt if I turned against the abuser, after the abuser made me promise I wouldn't tell, that I was destroying my integrity. And, that was one of the last things I had left. I know now, as an adult, that there are times when breaking a promise is justified. But as a child I lacked this wisdom.
The trauma "bond' is a defense/survival mechanism. First time I've heard the term maladaptive schema even though I've studied Psychology for 3 years at university. Is this the same thing as gestalt? The way we perceive reality would interface with consciousness studies, a subject which totally intrigues me! Thank-you Dr Grande for this information that adds to a fuller appreciation to the professional field of which you are outstanding!
Thank you for the interesting information. I live only about 20 Swedish miles from Stockholm.
So I was in a abusive relationship very bad he threatened to kill me if I left he used to put his gun on me all the time. He actually pulled the trigger while it was against my head one day. Very emotional and mentally abusive. I was with him for 15 years I got with him as a teenager I’m 30 now only man I been with and the last year I was with him is when he got very violent I finally left for my daughter. Me and my therapist was just discussing that I might have this because every session I talk about him and how much I miss him and I still love him and I actually was writing him because he is actually in prison now. I feel alone without him and he’s the only person I feel that fills that void. I get defensive with him and all after all the abuse he put me through I still miss him and get sad about him. So she gave me this to look up.
The Patty Hearst case always fascinated me! That and Stockholm syndrome.
Thank you so much for giving us clear definitions for phrases or buzz words thrown around so frequently.
I was kidnapped when I was 19. He ruined my life. He hurt me. Why would I tell police I didn't want him to go to jail at first? Stockholm syndrome.
I do not, even over 33+ years later, remember saying this. My brother said he heard me say it when the police were arresting him, but knew that I didn't mean it.
I can't imagine why or how this happens. It's strange but, it's real. I had to bond with him to stay alive. Had I not done that, I don't think he would've ever let me outside, where I got away.
Michelle W
If the bond isn’t sincere, the person will know, and things become dangerous. I think that’s why a genuine affection occurs. It really is a survival mechanism. I speak on this from a personal experience, and once the threat was removed, I was able to process my true feelings of disgust.
@@user-ne4nz6hx2t that makes complete sense. It can leave some people with some undeserved guilt but the bonding one did to survive was essential to one's life. Where is the guilt in that.. You had to protect your very existance against someone who at that time had total control of things.
Fascinating topic Dr Grande!!
Imo, lessened violence in an interpersonal relationship can be perceived as kindness.. consideration & more. Sad really!
I've always thought that Stockholm Syndrome is a way for the psyche to adapt to an ongoing life or death situation as a way to ensure the person's survival. Why could that not include spousal type relationship abuse?
This is such an interesting topic! I've read a lot about cases such as those of Jaycee Dugard and Natascha Kampusch. Both of them resented being suspected for developing Stockholm Syndrome. Jaycee Dugard said in an interview that she resented the term because in her opinion, it implied she had fallen in love with her captor, but she only adapted to survive the circumstances. Natascha Kampusch, on the other hand, resented the term as she thought her feelings and the relationship with her captor was more complex than that (Stockholm Syndrome). I think the problem is that there are many definitions to what Stockholm Syndrome is, and the various media portrayals of it. Also, in extreme cases such as Jaycee Dugard and Natascha Kampusch, they had been in isolation for a very long time (both at least for a decade), were exposed to a lot of media attention after they escaped, and were asked very personal questions by interviewers. They were distressed to begin with, and had to deal with even more distress.
In my speculative opinion, they were struggling with telling the world what happened to them and what exactly was the nature of the relationship with the captor and abuser. Perhaps they assumed that if they admitted that at point they felt sympathy for them, people (especially relatives, I think Jaycee Dugard was especially concerned that her relatives thought she was in love with the man) would judge them negatively. Maybe they didn't fully realize at the time that they were not responsible for what happened to them (a lot of trauma survivors struggle with placing responsibility for what happened to them and blame themselves for not doing enough, fighting enough etc). So, in conclusion, to me their descriptions sound like they did indeed develop Stockholm Syndrome, but their interpretation of it was something different and they did not agree with it. That said, it's no wonder and nothing to be ashamed of for having mixed feelings about such a traumatic experience. In fact, it's just one of the very creative ways the human mind works to keep us alive, even when the odds are against us.
The Stockholm syndrome is crucial in MKultra programming. The trauma-based mind controlled person always has Stockholm syndrome. The attachment doesn't have to be toward the abuser. In a family, the children become attached to each other where they defend each other no matter what. They are not able to have true intimacy with another person and are often narcissistic. They take on the abuser's behaviors and the cycle goes to the next generation, until it is broken.
Absolutely.
You said narcissistic but what about borderline like?
@@sweet2sourr Narcissism is on a spectrum from mild to extreme. Some people see mild as borderline. I do not.
Thanks for your clear, concise explanation of Stockholm Syndrome.
This explains perfectly what is happening in my Homeland, Syria.
There's a group of people that are defending the Regime so passionately.
It's mind blowing.
We are all like can't you see these are murderers.
It's like the whole land is held captive by these dictators.
Those people who are defending the perpetrators, get special treatment.
They get their basic needs met.
Like electricity, water, business, money income ... etc
Unlike the rest.
This special treatment makes them defend the perpetrators wholeheartedly.
Some have their sons captive in prison. They'd say on the media what the Regime tells them to say.
It's a perfect explanation for this behaviour.
Luckily I'm out of there.
It's hell on Earth.
It's the fasting season here.
I'm trying to put up with my religious practices during Ramadan.
I might not be able to follow all of your videos, Dr. Grande!
I'll try to catch up later
Keep up the good work!
Take care☺💝
This happens in gangs like the mafia. Whenever you are stuck in a situation, even at work, you can develop feelings for the people around you. It is a survival mechanism.
Left out the most important category as to how it best relates. Childhood abuse and co dependancy relationships from early childhood
Seriously 😳 Dude, minute 12:40
i was Emancipated at age 15 in 1985. ⚖️
Thank you, Dr. Grande, Man
NorCal 🌻 14:21
@@diannaboss4167That's you.
But I can remember a time in my life as a child, were I was only comfortable around my mother, whom had me socially isolated, living a Jim Jones life. Her fear of the world manifesting into mine. A mental block you can't break. Hard to make connection to your peers, when your isolated.
@@swannoir7949 my heart to yours healing ❤️🩹
@@swannoir7949 🪔playfulness and healing for us both, my Sister 🌺🤙🏽
Thank you for this information and very interesting video Dr. Grande.
I don't have any specific other comment, but I do wish you all the best and send you greetings from The Netherlands 😃
This channel is so great and I learn so much ! Thank you ! :)
👍🏻 assessment Dr. Grande. I noticed people loosely using the term Stock syndrome in conversation relating it to trauma bonding, and my feelings were it would have to be a stranger, to be labeled Stockholm syndrome, and that makes sense. I do believe that people who are continuously abused by someone suppose to love them develop emotional problems , no matter what it’s labeled, that takes help, willingness and time to recover. 🙏
I love your channel! You do a great job in delivering your educational background and research on each topic in a concise and eloquent manner. Keep up the great work!
I think I have both in terms of the abusive controlling fear situation within previous marriage, but... I haven't listened to your video yet... Just about to watch now ...then I'll know how much both constructs apply to my life THANK YOU great topic x
Beautifully explained, thank you dr Todd❤️
Oh my EXPLOSION of understanding. 60yrs of a brother that lied about me at age 7, he was 11. A sexual abuse thing. He lied and lied,I was the one whipped, so much trauma and now at 67 I see clearly why all my life, being around him, he lies constantly and denies his actions. The bond has to be broken.
For me, my analysis of my form of domestic SS and nowadays huge TB, is due to being primed in a family environment where emotional bullying and gaslighting prevailed, and so when I fell in love with a charming, intelligent highly charismatic, funny man who also was a bully, and prone to frenzied outbursts for the trivialist of things at home, I found myself trapped in this cyclical crazy, scarey, walking on eggshells environment with a man who I was hostage to in the marriage because I'd stupidly, over the years, allowed him to gain power over me, so that I was dependent and vulnerable, isolated, and any form of rebellion / sticking up for myself / survival acts meant he would retaliate, threaten me, and ultimately destroy me emotionally... Not making much sense here but I'd still stick up for him in public and believe in him and whilst our marriage is over, I'm trauma bonded to him, in that I don't think I could ever have a relationship again, because... He was the one... Yup it's mad I know but when ya have domestic SS and TB it is not easy to reconfigure the mind and emotions away from the person who actually just kept you 'hostage' with the ever present threat of harm (in whatever form that takes in a relationship) if you make a move to free yourself. I appreciate my perspective is domestic abuse related, not bank robbery scenario hostage taking.
Sadly I can relate but I am not as articulate as you.
I love you cuz this is exactly the question’s answer I was looking for
Great job, doctor. :) I've always been interested in this subject.
Thanks for this awesome video ❤️
thank you i needed this!!!
Hello, I've recently discovered your channel and I just wanted to say that your videos are really interesting, well informed and clear. As someone who studies counseling, I like the amount of knowledge that I get from each of them. Maybe you could add more pictures or diagrams in your videos ? Anyhow, keep going ! :)
It began with trauma...it ended with trauma. I mistook the trauma bond for love. I wasn’t in love I was mindfucked and traumatized. I didn’t know any better then. I lived in constant fear and I thought the person who made me afraid was the Only one who could make me not afraid and I had to love them and please them so they wouldn’t hurt me. After one particularly horrible beating he took me home and we made love. Looking. Back I can t believe I went along with it. The feelings I had at the time are alien to me now.
Sorry that happened to you, glad you are free now, but it is an example of how insidious trauma can be.
Thank you for this, Dr. Grande. I think SS helps in understanding victim mentality. Someone I know said she thought my husband was sweet for not mistreating me and respecting my boundaries. I told her it is not sweet; it's the way human beings should treat one another, especially the one who loves you most.
This was mind blowing
There's no question it happens in relationships
Cause I identify perfectly with what you said and how my relationship with my father effects me
Thank you very much for that explanation. That was perfect. I have just recently come out a a narcissistic abusive relationship and I trauma bonded with the abuser because I knew him since we were kids. So I formed a bond knowing his background knowing what he had been through and I am a very compassionate and caring person and very nurturing. So when I entered this relationship all I wanted to do was help him and care for him and hopefully heal him. I steady psychology myself. I'm not in school for psychology right now. I'm in school for healthcare technician information but I am also going to major in psychology. Michael is to be a trauma counselor for domestic violence, abuse, PTSD, child trauma and drug addiction because those all entail in the whole trauma bonding experience. So thank you very much. I was able to share this on my facebook so that people had a better understanding as to why I was in that relationship for so long
My opinion about Stockholm syndrome is that maybe it’s kind of like a third option when it comes to fight or flight. Maybe this response is triggered when the brain realizes that fight or flight could lead to even more danger so in response to a high stress scenario where the thinking is not clear, the brain comes to a strange but seemingly effective survival strategy to get close and bond with the perpetrator(s) but later forgets that it’s in a dangerous scenario. In short, I believe that it’s basically a third survival strategy that is used when fight or flight is (seemingly) impossible but ends up clouding the mind of the victim to point where it is unable to recognize that it’s still in danger.
3 option when fight or flight are not possible- such an interesting & clever point.
Thanks for the video. I saw a movie ( I know its fiction but based on true events) and now everything makes sense... Now I want to know more about this topic because of the explaining precisition and vocabulary in your video. Thanks.
Thank you for the video.
Hey Dr. Grande, finally you didn't tell whether both Stockholm Syndrome & Trauma Bond are same or not.
As someone that was in a physically abusive relationship, I would understand the more violent abusive situations having higher likelihoods of stockholm syndrome to be this - it isn't the kindness aspect alone that counts, it is the extremity of violence where ones life is literally in danger, only then does the kindness offer such an important reprieve from the danger and also a recall of what the loved person is "really" like when the victim isn't "causing" them to "react". At least, this was what I experienced, and I suspect it is so with many cases.
me too. your spot on
Interesting. Thanks Dr G
Excellent video - could this be a special case of transference?
Thank you! Your videos are always interesting. A developing person would be more apt to be molded by these tactics.
Would you speak about Alcoholism and how it relates to aging?
Very informative Dr. Grande
Hello Dr. Grande. I thought the two terms meant the same thing. 🤔
Again, great video!
Wow i just listened to the lastest episode of the podcast CRIMINAL. They interviewed Clark Olofsson, one of the Stockholm robbers and how he did it etc.
Good question,never heard of these side by side categories
Dr. Grande this is a fascinating topic. I believe it has to do with survival. It is amazing how the brain will protect itself to keep the body alive....so much more to delve into!
@Lisa Lisa: Great point.
Very interesting and objective. I agree with your assessment of Stockholm Syndrome and question the validity of the "syndrome" as a unique issue or construct. 🐯
Where was the mention of trauma bonding?
I've been told my brother has Stockholm syndrome. He was abused and locked up my mother when very young. Now he has no interests, except for his mother who he always lived next door to. Now she's in a nursing home he visits her every day and has moved into her house. He doesn't particularly like her (she's a cold rejecting person) but he devotes his life to her.
I'm from Sweden and even though I was very young I remember the drama "Norrmalmstorgsdramat", the origin of the term. A coincidence made me meet the woman who was at the time of the robbery one of the hostages, a bank clerk , the one who made the calls to the Prime Minister etc. She was no longer a bank clerk but a psychotherapist. She was my supervisor. We didn't speek of it much but she did have a romatic relationship with one of the hostage takers after the incident. Our meeting was years and years later and she was a very competent therapist. She rejected the term "Stockholm Syndrome" but that of course doesn't necessairily meen anything.
I have to say I've been married to a narcissist for 22 years and holy crap I am completely struggling with Stockholm syndrome traits as a result. I want to stay working on recovering from this issue. I'm currently working with a therapist. It's been a slow recovery. It's not easy for me to move beyond. Stockholm syndrome is absolutely real and caused by the perpetrator. It's strange that it's not too common.
Wow! Good on you for being brave & speaking on such a public forum. Be mindful of your safety, tho.
GOOD LUCK!
Sorry,I just "downvoted" by accident(wrong click)!
Stockholm syndrome IS real!On my opinion its our brain which converts fear into love so we don't have to feel the pain of being afraid al the time;its a very powerful survival mechanism
Dr. Grande your teaching about the subject is so clear and informative. Life sometimes is stranger than fiction most of all when aggressive colonialism, war and cold wars are happening in succession which creates the ideal conditions for perpetrators to sieze hostages who are already fearful of so much. Interesting who would be most vulnerable to developing stolkholm syndrome. I think it's true that people who have grown up in a very sheltered environment in which people grow used to many creature comforts always while spending a lot of time indoors or who grew up in an environment with no one around who ever had their back are more prone to miss clues that they have been duped and so that makes them more vulnerable to respond with Stolkhom Syndrome because they cannot see any way out of their dilemmas after missing the signs that they are being duped long enough for them to feel like they have no other choices left. When that happens if there is no intervention done to rescue them over a long period of time they could develop anti-social disorder. For example that is happening during arrests of civilians who are being put into prisoner of war camps in North Korea who at one time were being kept there for more than one generation. Which is why I wonder if someone has Stolkholm Syndrome too if they say something like, "Dr. David Susuki is not to be trusted".
The common denominator for abuse survivors is the encounter with a perpetrator who abuses their power and control. There are many studies that show there isn’t a victim profile. Schemas May arise out of the abuse that reinforce some previous experiences but are not a “core” attribute of the victim. This has lead to “perpetrator” focused profiling in criminology.
Interesting video. I work with DVSA survivors. I am amazed at the number of professionals who either never heard of trauma bonding or think it’s some kind of New Age woo woo “stuff”.
I definitely have had a extreme case of this and this is a very real thing!!
Thank you Dr Grande for your tremendous insights you give us. I was wondering wether an empath person has anything to do with this stock synfrom
I’ve been wondering about this!
I think there is something to this. One reason is things have to be really messed up for a mother to choose the man who is abusing her children over her children. Something is broken in her brain for her to make that choice.
Agreed! I know a “ mother” like that. I helped her child get out over 2 years ago. The “ mother” chose her pedaphile husband and still wants to reunite him and her
@@Carol-gs5tu Yep. Something isn't right in her brain. He has some hold over her stronger than her love for her child, which to a normal mother seems unfathomable.
Unfortunately, I have seen it twice in women that choose their pedophilie spouses over their children
@Charlie Hunt I don't know actual stats on it but I have come across it many times in my personal experience and I know from professionals who deal with the foster care system that it happens a fair amount. Usually the guy was abusive to her.
Dr. Grande, I was wondering if you might have insight on potential neurological changes in the brain during early pregnancy. I'm sensitive and could feel change in my body before 6 weeks, but at that point I lost the pregnancy. At 5 weeks my maternal instincts skyrocketed and I had not yet learned of the pregnancy. After losing it, I remained much more maternal even years later. For reference I work in daycare and had done so for three years prior. How soon can a woman's brain change and are there lasting effects even with a short pregnancy?
Hello Dr Todd, very interesting indeed, good job on condensing a huge topic in such a short video. I thing capture bonding is an important part of human psyche. Did you also hear of Lima syndrom? It’s basicaly an inversion of Stockholm syndrom, where captors develop sympathy for their hostages; its most known case happend in Lima in the nineties I think. Greetings from Dortmund; have to sleep... just a few more videos.. with few I mean at least 5😁
I believe its a coping strategy and a matter of survival. I myself have experienced this form of trauma bonding. Brainwashing can also be a factor as well but not necessarily all the time.
I finally had the gut to see a therapist
Elizabeth Smart was afraid of her captors. In her book, she describes the intense fear she felt at the idea of escaping and the power Brian David Mitchell had over her. She actually engineered them returning to Utah in hopes that she would be recognised. A lot of what you’re describing was misconstrued in the press.
She was more worried about being accepted after being raped. Like the licked cupcake story she was told growing up.
Thanks doctor. Couldn't it be true that Elizabeth Smart was crying in relief? Those people did terrible things to her and she was just a kid. It seems like it would be a relief to get back to your parents at that age. She has said that she never could say anything because her captors were always watching.
I dunno. Interesting subject as per usual. ❤
@Charlie Hunt who did?
I think this subject has the same debate that betrayal trauma theory has. People seem to have a dichotomic view of it - either it does exist or it doesn't exist, which I think is weird for a science-community. Many people who have experienced this kind of phenomenon know that it does exist. The thing that should be considered is how and in which conditions it exists. Our current understanding of it might not be the most optimal, but it sure doesn't help to just say it doesn't exist at all - cause that makes many people's real experiences as non-existing.
You mention that higher amounts of abuse and the perceived kindness are contradictory. I don't agree with that, actually it can be the opposite. Firstly, higher amount of abuse means a higher amount of fear, which I think is the basics of trauma-bond (because it heightens the clash between attachment and fear systems - which is the basics of disorganized attachment reactions). If there's not enough fear to make the clash between systems in a disorganized way, trauma-bond doesn't form. Naturally, if a person is more prone to disorganization due his or her childhood, there has to be lesser amounts of abuse for it to happen. Secondly, the more severe the abuse is, the more skewed the whole picture can be. Severely abusive people may for example truly believe they are loving when they abuse, and when the victim is isolated, he or she might believe that too. Severely abusive people can gaslight and make the victim question his or her own sanity, which can result into the victim believing that abuse is an act of kindness at the same time. Thirdly, when the abuse is more severe, then the biological reactions are also stronger. Then even a smallest glimpse of calmness can feel so pleasurable, which on the other hand just reinforces the up-and-down-cycle.
The perceived act of kindness is no way a simple thing, and it cannot be measured in a way that people living in normal conditions think it would be. This is the number one mistake people who have never experienced abuse or have only experienced a mild abuse in basically safe environment make. Attachment is a strong human need, and when the situation is very skewed, it doesn't go away, it just gets skewed as well.
Thank you.
Everyone’s experience is different, so I can only speak for my own. I was in an abusive relationship for over five years. There are warning signs, which, looking back, I saw, but chose not to see, if that makes sense. I won’t go into those, I’m sure they’ve been covered by others. The point I wanted to make is that I don’t think staying in an abusive situation is the same as Stockholm syndrome, if that is even real. In my case, I didn’t make excuses for him, or feel I deserved the abuse. I certainly feared him, and I loathed him. It was more a case of “the devil you know.” I knew how to avoid his violent outbursts most of the time. I knew how to react to minimize the danger. I didn’t know what I might provoke by leaving. It would be unfamiliar territory, in which I might not be able to minimize anything. I didn’t know, for instance, whether he would target me, who might have some experience on how to protect myself or not, or whether he would attack my child or my elderly mother, or anyone else. Not nearly as important, but worth mentioning, I felt ashamed. Not ashamed for the abuse, but because I should have recognized the signs of what he was, that I allowed myself, a reasonably intelligent person, to be manipulated. The signs were there, and I’m not stupid.
Hey, machiavellian, narcissistic, psychpaths come across as extroverted, charming, attractive, etc. It's a facade, and most girls like this type. Infj/empaths arent abusive but they're a minority and are disliked by women, since tend to be they boring, introverted, too sensitive, too nice etc. Women are attracted to males with dark triadic traits and not gentleness, kindness, wisdom, humility, etc., traits of the empath.
I agree that this Stockholm syndrome is helpful. It causes a huge change in neurotic system, and after knowing about this, I became aware that I was abused through a psychological manipulation.
What are some examples of maladaptive schemas? Would love a video about this :)
Wow fascinating! 😁🤔
Yes I think it does exist as a survival technique!! I m victim of severe child abuse and I know that making a big deal of every little concession my extreme abusive parents made to me helped me go trough hell and being here and thanks good without becoming abusive myself!! Thansk for informing on this topic!! 👌
Dr grande could you make a video about natascha kampusch?
About 15 years ago I heard a scholar say that battered women had bad outcomes even if they left their abusers. They were arrested for petty crimes, became addicted to drugs, lost their homes and died earlier than most people. Is this true? I don't know much about this and I'm ho0ing someone can point me to solid research.
I love this channel and I learn something from every presentation.
I didn't know those details about Elizabeth Smart.
Interesting subject, but I know very little about it. It seems to suggest something about the natural presence of empathy in many people.
John Paul she walk3d in public
Hello Mr Grande.
SAS know what it is.
However ... good insight Mr Grande good insight .
I commend you on this post.
Domestically agreed that women treated to emotional abuse tinged with the threat of violence become accustomed to & thereby 'flattened' to bullies who should in reality politely & firmly be shown the door. This is very sad.
Men subjected to the bullying of selfish manipulative insensitive women - kick them out of ground using words as a weapon - intelligence can & will defeat any bully.
Effectively boundaries need to protected.
Good post Mr Grade - good post
Thatnk you
Do u think that although the perpetraitors are doing varying degrees of violent acts, somehwere in the the person(s) subconcious the perpetraitos are fullfilling some kind of attachment role for them that they lack...even if they came from "good families?" Just wondering what your thoughts were on this.
When someone is taking people hostage (literally or emotionally), it seems as if they are trying to force others to see things from their point of view. Like they want people to see them as misunderstood and victimized and to take their side. For the hostage to give in and agree to this worldview would seem to be a reasonable adaptation in a difficult situation. Some hostages know they’re playing a part, others forget.
I can attest to my experience being the same of Stockholm syndrome , indeed indirectly caused by adverse childhood experiences
Fear, yes but also I believe it is a personal id toward the abuser | hostage taker. You feel sadness toward them. You somehow very personally connect with the abuser. It doesn’t always happen I suspect...so, maybe it’s endorphins related?
I went through this and I felt sorry for the person but also, they could have murdered me so...
There was a back and forth of kindness and abuse and I never knew when or what was coming.
It was devastating. It hijacked my entire fight flight system and I have struggled for a couple years to get myself back but it permeated every aspect of my life. It is daily, off and on, all day.
Thank you for this insightful video. I do believe strongly in the SS. I will go so far to say that where we talk about spousal relationships we can also see it where abuse is present but physical violence is absent. Typically where the abuser show strong narcissistic behaviour. My question is, when a captive is freed. How can this syndrome be reversed or is this so deeply imprinted that it is not possible?
I was believed to have had Stockholm Syndrome. I had a very close relationship with a man who, over time, got completely inside my head and changed the way I thought and felt about myself and the behaviours he exhibited. He would shout at me whenever I did something he didn't like and force me to do things I didn't want to do, but over time I found myself doing them without his instruction, and even believed that it was normal and healthy. He convinced me that I belonged to him, that I wasn't allowed to do simple routinely things without his permission (eat, sleep, etc) and I had an unfathomable amount of respect for him, for reasons that I couldn't place my finger on. Luckily, that man is long gone now, and I'm on waiting lists for specialist clinics. My best friend and I talk about what I went through on a regular basis, so that I don't slip back into the mindset of "that man loved me" or "I should never have left him". He (my best friend) is the best thing that ever happened to me; I'm so thankful that I'm now surrounded with a support system, and that I don't have to follow the orders of a sick and twisted man anymore.
I would love to see a video on Maladaptive schemas
Intermittent reinforcement wasn’t mentioned regarding “trauma bonding”?
Wow this is so interesting to me because I've been studying the literature on learned helplessness in animals. Particularly equines, and especially donkeys. I'm sure you've read this article Dr. Grande but I'll mention it for other readers: Learned Helplessness at Fifty: Insights from Neuroscience. Fascinating read!
that sounds quite interesting!
I think they overlap for sure. I just want to know how to get over it, stop feeling my life is equally ruined by the truma and abuse by my ex and at the same time is ruined because I am not with him (miss him and the life we had together). Its like everyone I know who had a toxic relationship has this BS. Unless they just stay angry and bitter. I think it also pairs with "Good Girl Syndrome" somehow too. Thats the ' but he had a bad childhood excuse' and 'be the better person and forgive' thing. I grew up feeling I could never speak up and be myself, always looking for approval and the Ok to to things I wanted from someone. I will have to look up the maladaptive video. Pretty sick of my life being screwed up.
Same with PTSD that originally is related to shock from war/military duties and recent CPTSD and it's relation to chronic abuse in relationships.
Thank you
One thing I learned about abuse the last few years is that we make excuses for our abuser. We feel empathy but not just that, we care more about them than ourselves. In other words, my feelings and well being are not important. But theirs is. Therefore we sacrifice our peace and harmony in order to keep them ok. A kind of relief from fear of further abuse, even though it keeps the cycle going.
true, I made the same observation. People lost critical thinking completely, end of times are close
Do you have any opinion on the upper and lower bounds of battered women defenses in court that are legitimate vs successful pretense?
Which one is better? I'm just learning about this stuff and need to know how long it takes to get it to work? How do you know she's done? Works 80% of the time I guess. Is there anything to look for to know she's gonna be one of those? Is trauma bonding better, and how do you do that one?🧐 Which one lasts longer and is stronger❤?
Very interesting.
You expose the limits of the presumed "Stockholm syndrome" and its possible usefullness to explain some people's behavior.
I came here because of an Arte documentary on Xi Jinping, his youth under the "thought reform" in China (Robert Lifton). One explains his commitment to the chinese CP as a example of the Stockholm syndrome. Since a whole generation went through this painful period, I don't see it as a compelling explanation.
I believe that I survived Stockholm syndrome. My mother died when I was 11, my father remarried the first woman who said yes, 6 months later. I was moved from suburbia, within a block of all my friends and relatives to an acreage miles from nowhere and didn’t see my friends/family for 9 years. I wasn’t even allowed a picture of my dead mother, she had all my pets put down and I wasn’t allowed, tv or books only a couple records. I was extremely isolated and wasn’t even allowed to speak to my father as she said we were conspiring against her. She would love bomb me and then over the month slowly deteriorate in mindset till I was walking on eggshells, waiting for her to explode. Sometimes it was the middle of the night, she would wake up and rampage throughout the house, threatening to kill either my father or myself. I would hide the knife set in the oven as I’d had her try to stab me on numerous occasions and had knife marks in my bedroom door, she threatened to kill us in our sleep.
I learned to read her moods, map her cycle so I knew when to expect an outburst and became extremely attached, she would threaten to leave an do would beg her to stay as if my life depended on it. My relationship with my father and all my other family members were severed so I felt she was the only person in my life I used to fantasise about saving her life and then she’d love me, then she’d see I was worthy. She used to enlist her grown up daughter and her children to dob on me so she’d have a reason to take out her anger on me. I really liked her grandkids but her daughter was horrible and made up lies to get me in trouble. One day my 4 yr old step nephew said if you don’t give me what I want I will tell nan and she will punish you. Even at that young age they could see that I was a scapegoat. I moved out of home at 17 and never looked back, I’ve been supporting myself since I was 16.