Duplication Entities with No Team
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- čas přidán 29. 06. 2024
- Of the many mechanics and abilities in Overwatch 2, very few rival the complexity of Echo's ultimate. Duplication allows Echo to clone any other hero -- and while this process is mostly functional, there are cases where duplication entities have no team affiliation.
TIMESTAMPS:
• 0:00 Introduction
• 0:31 Duplication Mechanics
• 3:23 Parting Gift Mechanics (R.I.P.)
SOCIALS:
• Twitch - / marblr
• Discord - discord.marblr.net
• Twitter - / marblrr
REFERENCES:
• Lifeweaver Ability Overview - • Lifeweaver Ability Ove...
MUSIC:
• Super Mario Sunshine - Noki Bay
• TrackMania Nations Forever - Pulp Remix
• Super Smash Bros. Melee - Trophy
Footage captured on game versions 2.4.0.0.111387 and 2.5.0.1.114357 - Hry
![5,000,000 Damage Mitigated [PATCHED]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/i88R8MEV8AE/mqdefault.jpg)
![5,000,000 Damage Mitigated [PATCHED]](/img/tr.png)
![Deadeye Can Miss (a lot) [HALF PATCHED]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ip4ay-rUGQs/mqdefault.jpg)
www.twitch.tv/marblr
ah shit man, can i get a hint
It takes me to a Rickroll doesn’t it?
Bread
@@True_Equalizer toast or bread? :P
Crazy
I love how marblr is able to travel back in time to test old bugs
Love comments like these
@@brovideogaming9447 lol thx
I think he only posts the videos after the bug is fixed to avoid trolling and exploiting. Which is honorable
@@the_tree007how would you abuse this bug at all? Where is the positive in being able to destroy your own abilities?
@@eisenhammer01 hence the trolling
Maybe it's a feature not a bug. It would be really frustrating to get blocked by a friendly wall, petal or tree that your teammate can't destroy because they're no longer that hero.
Oh you’re right, these are the only ones that have collision that can be destroyed manually by the player who owns them aren’t they? My first theory was deployable objects that functioned *by* deploying them (excludes petal platform anyways unfortunately) but then I realized sym’s wall wasn’t on the list either
Tree of life though
@@TrueOracleit has collision and it can be destroyed early by Lifeweaver, so it makes sense. Still heals it's original team tho
if that were true then torb turret should be effective to
@@thoet7270he’s saying why would you willingly destroy a TOL. Even if it was blocking your path, it probably wouldn’t be worth it 😅
I wonder if the reason this doesn't affect objects like Torb turret and Ashe's Bob is because those objects have a target that they need to shoot at, and it would be ridiculous (albeit funny) if they started shooting at their own teammates.
I'd wager that's not fully intended, since otherwise they would've given the same treatment to the abilities shown in the video. I think it's more likely that deployables and 'proper' entities behave differently, and this bug only affects deployables.
someone noticed that it only concerned collision entity, and because they can't be destroyed by their creator anymore, they let player break it "manualy"
or if immo field didn't work for the correct/any team. anyway I left a comment about this, the abilities this doesn't work for are PETs, there's a vid on it somewhere. btw idk if/how this works for sym's 3 buildables and deployable shields (if they even stay up after the ult ends)
tree needs to heal teammates too
All the abilities except the death flower have collisions, so maybe that is something worth noting
So, one thing I noticed is that all the abilities that are affected by this bug are ones that create an object that can still be interacted with by the echo's team. Mei wall, Lifeweavers platform, and his tree are still physical objects to the echo's team, whereas turrets, bob, etc. are intangible. And while Lifeweaver's parting gift isn't physical, it is still an object that the friendly team could pick up.
Bob can still be pushed around by teammates with "soft" collision.
@@loekhabets8698 Bob could be a special case on his own to be fair. Iirc the game considers Bob to be part of the Ashe who sent him out, similar to D.va's mech, so those kinds of objects might have unique code that causes Bob to be unaffected by the bug presented here. Especially since a Bob or a D.va bomb that doesn't consider the echo's team as their team and still kills them would be caught very early on in bug testing.
All 3 of those abilities are temporary constructs, as was parting gift (I think), so my guess is that temporary objects simply reference their team instead of bothering to copy it since they won’t be active indefinitely. Bob is also temporary, but he functions as a sixth “player” so I imagine he’s a unique case and may use the “pass by value” method too.
Other temporary things: Sym wall, Ramattra shield ,Zarya bubble, Bap lamp, Winston bubble. We didn’t see any of those in the video, though maybe @Marblr tested them anyway..
I wonder if there's any quirks with Sym's teleporter too, like if it becomes no team and no one can use it.
Lamp was shown among the various examples. The others are all barriers, so probably have different priorities due to some abilities (Winston tesla canon, melees, etc) ignoring them anyway.
Lamp was shown in the video, so it doesn't happen with lamp.
Someone else mentioned that it might actually be a feature since mei wall, lifeweaver platform, and lifeweaver tree can all be cancelled by the heroes who used them, and all of them can significantly negatively effect teammates, so it might be intentional so that teammates can remove them when they otherwise couldn't be removed. They all can block the paths of teammates or move them in certain ways, and they can grief the team if echo's duplication ends.
Petal Platform is technically permanent if you never step on it -- it remains on the ground indefinitely
I think its because the Three objekt dont interact with any team or with both teams (Life weavers polatform) so the other objekts like Torbs turret dont attack their own team.... does this make sens?
Parting gift being removed after 2 weeks of release will never not be funny to me. Pepperidge farm remembers when lifeweaver helped your enemy more then your team…
Honestly? Still does. For every one pull that was helpful, there are a thousand that fuck you over.
@@sylvrwolflol true LMAO
@@sylvrwolflol Same with platform too LOL
@@hedera_ the only problem with platform is that you don't really have a good way to communicate you're using it, you can't exactly "force help" a teammate onto a platform but you sure as HELL can roadhog grab them as a teammate
@@sidekic1109 Yeah, it leads to platform just being used by Lifeweaver to save himself. It takes too much setup to be useful mid-fight most of the time. And I've seen many Lifeweavers mess up both teammate's ultimates or get themselves killed by an enemy ult by platforming the enemy up with them.
Another possible reason for a copied Mei's wall being destructible by its own team after copy ends is because Echo has no way to take the wall down herself after her copy of Mei ends, as she loses that ability.
yeah but the thing is that you can destroy other objects with it so it doesnt make sense
why is it always a Mei wall? i swear to god in almost every bug there is a Mei wall that has SOME relevance to the bug in question
I love shit like this, takes me back to the ceave gaming Mario maker vids where he'd go into Detail on the weirdest most obscure mechanics and how to use them in your levels!
Haven’t played overwatch in months but these videos are always fun to watch
If I'm not mistaken, all three of the entities listed have another thing in common. They can all be grappled onto by Wrecking Ball which is desinged to attach to solid surfaces and not things like players or deployables. Maybe the reason they turn into a No Team target after duplication ends is because they are a different type of entity to things like Torb and Sym Turrets, Ashe's Bob, Junkrats Trap and Mine, etc. And maybe the only reason Lifeweavers Parting Gift only worked the way it did was because it was removed before the necessary change was made to make it not work that way.
These 3 are the only ones with a collision.
these videos are like some of the only recent ow content ive been able to enjoy throughly. i love learning about this stuff
Really love how you make complicated stuff sound so easy to understand, you're awesome! :)
Dude your videos are sick I love your overwatch science type content keep it up! :)
You got some smooth editing my guy. The camera angle zooming in to the parting gift at the end was buttery smooth.
that was a really nice transition at the end!
You know it's a good day when Marblr uploads
This is a seriously overused comment.
@@CRollins1997 You're just jealous that I got a heart and you didn't
@@JQSHl The jealously response? That's an overused response too! You're on a roll 😮
Thanks for the awesome content and great videos!
I think the reason it only happens with mei wall, petal platform, and tree of life is that those abilities are cancellable by their owners with the same button used to summon them. As opposed to other player made entities that either can’t be broken/ have a separate button to break them like (torb turret)
I love every single video from this channel.
I think the bug comes from the objects being assigned no team but being able to be interacted with no matter the team
Petal platform, the tree and mei wall all block shots no matter the team. Turrets shields and the like don’t block shots for teammates, thus they don’t take damage from friendly fire because the bullets go through them
I honestly didn't know this was a thing until today, thanks Marblr!
I love the use of track mania music :)
Your videos are real good, going technical under the OW hood. As someone who know a thing or two about how games work, that's cool :)
I don’t even play OW anymore, but I always enjoy seeing a new Marblr vid
Its always quality content when Marblr uploads
I think it’s hilarious how toxic trash killer players complain that survivors are op when they maybe face a swf once out of 10 games. Meanwhile as survivor we are being hard camped and/or tunneled in every game we play. And what do these moronic devs do?? They buff these broken killers even more. That patch over the summer ruined this game. Haven’t touched it since.
@@barronmaurice3179 ma'am this is an overwatch video, go back to your DBD circlejerk
I stopped playing overwatch few years ago, but your videos are that interesting
My guess is that the mei wall was the only object in the game with this oversight, maybe having the team = owner variable on the loop of the object, and not start up. By coincidence, when the devs were making lifeweaver, they just copied the code from mei's wall instead of anywhere else, causong this bug to propagate
clearest explanations!
feels good to hear Track Mania music in the back 🤩🤩
Amazing video :)
Good vid love it!
He just posted it
lmao
your videos are too good for OW2
The moment the video started the inheritance system crossed my mind too. It's a common cause of problems like this in many games. I recall a few from Team Fortress 2 as well and it all boils down to what x developer did differently than y to achieve their goal for a new feature any given release cycle. Very common!
now what the hell is going on with the last shot, the camera movement, the flower's placement and the composition. im in love
I quit this dumb game, but I still watch your videos. They're just way too amazing
Oh sick, Trackmania Nations music
That's a pretty good breakdown of pointers in object-oriented programming. It's basically straight out of my own programming classes. Except I tend to depict the value as separate from both variables, as it's easier to see visually that there's only a single value which both variables reference.
Speaking of which - the only thing that behaviour can happen is if the Echo clone is given a copy of the Team object, but the Wall/Platform/Tree she spawns is given a reference to that copy. When to copy goes away, attempts to access the variable will return a null pointer and probably be defaulted to All Teams via sanity checks. If the Echo clone is given a reference to the original Team variable, then the Wall it spawns will be given the same reference. It means that the Wall will retain a reference to the original object attached to Echo herself and no null pointer exception will occur. So the back-end is doing some shenanigans either way.
I love the random computer science knowledge involved in this video ❤️
One of the few channels with actual content for ow.
I had duplicated an Ashe as Echo, tossed a dynamite, died, and then two people got killed by a dynamite without a player icon
Trackmania background music, super based
big fan of the trackmania music
One posible explanation could be that all 3 of those have collision, you can stand on top of the petal and the mei wall, you can also crash into the wall or the tree. Its also true for sombra’s translocator (after rework) for most deployables it goes through, except for petal and obviously the ice wall
Finally I understood pointers :D
thanks for reminding me about lifeweaver's passive lmao
I was not expecting trackmania music here
Literally the only person who is making Overwatch interesting for me. I uninstalled and haven’t looked back, but you’re videos are always very intriguing.
how are you able to test in old versions of ow?
amazing video as always Marblr btw
This video has taught me more about pointers in programming compared to college lectures
It might be an intended affect.
I'm assuming that is in place because you can't disable the ability once Echo's ult goes away. Which can cause some unwanted situations.
Liveweaver's tree still healing correctly somewhat confirms my idea.
Lowkey this is helping me learn C
Interesting to see that the tree still heals the right team of players, even though it doesnt have a team
Based Noki Bay music
Imagine if when entities were set to no team, it effected torb turrets and Bob and they just started killing your own team
This bug actually does affect other things too, for instance I died to a pulse bomb thrown by a friendly echo when she ended duplicate as the pulse bomb exploded
Respect for Trackmania background music.
Classic marblr w video.
i did not expect to hear about oop and programming concepts in my 5 min ow video
I see inheritence chain and I remember the Dva/Bob Supercharger assist bug. Might do some testing on that
I really enjoy these videos even though I hate this game and haven't played it in years.
was hoping you could do a vid about the health of inanimate objects (Fences, Junkerqueen Attack first spwan bike, the panels in control spawns, etc.). Because it doesn't seem like overall damage destroys them instead of "Brute force"
you videos are awesome and very informative in a way that makes sense, could i ask that you make an updated video of every way to earn an assist? would really help with that annoying 250 assists/saves weekly
I'm guessing the reason that the team value was passed by reference is due to the fact that all the abilities have similar interactions that differ by team, and thus have the team check done when the interaction happens, rather than pass a fixed team value. Basically, since the damage or healing done to the deploayable/person can't be determined before hand, it does the check for teams spontaneously.
For example, wall, petal and tree stops projectiles and hitscans from both teams, so they grouped it as one rule to block all projectiles and hitscans. From there, it would be a case by case basis on whether said projectile would deal damage to the object or not, and since the duplicate entity doesn't exist, no team can be referenced.
A similar thing could have happened to parting gift, where it gets the nearest person to heal, then when the actual heal starts, it then does the team check to see how much to heal.
This differs from most other deployable since the team can be specified since the affected team doesn't change
2:04 I'm sorry, but this was slick as hell
babe wake up, new marblr video [explaining the fun interaction of game code] just dropped
I honestly thought Junkrat's trap would have been talked about in here... but it still is an unknown thing for me since it wasnt a thing referenced in the stuff not affected by duplication fading, it is a deatroyable object that is similar to lifeweavers platform thingy, it is only temporarily there if triggered
Babe wake up new Marblr video
You should do a video on the Push alerts being weird. Like the enemy will be just past forward spawn (few meters) and we will finally get it to our forward spawn and it will tell us we lost the lead? Then immediately after crossing their distance, we’d get the lead.
That’s not the only situation, but I don’t remember how the others happen. It just says the wrong things at weird times. It often says we lost the lead when we never even had it.
Wake up babe, new Marblr upload
thank you
you have amazing thumbnails
I got flashbacks to my computer science class when pass by reference and pass by value was mentioned
i think marblr's speculation is correct, you see when he was talking about how that bug doesnt apply on other deployable objects he showed torb's turret, baptiste's lamp and ashe's bob, all objects that when destroyed it shows in the killfeed, probably because theyre "entities" of their own
Imagine a no team Bob that just starts murdering everyone
I was really afraid about hammond's mines, imagine if they could kill echo's teammates
cool trackmania music user (it sounds like the ds version but its hard to tell)
Imagine being a Blizzard engineer and you stumble upon a previously unknown bug, fully documented in a CZcams video
3:42 the way i completely and utterly forgot this had been a thing is kinda crazy
ayo that trackmania ost tho
1800 hours on ow and i dont think ive ever seen a friendly echo use a mei wall, that was truly an experience..
I guess its because they are relatively new. Mei got work done on her wall because it broke some stuff, LW is new and pretty sure this follows on illari's pylon too. Perhaps the reason being its easier to do so and one less function to call to.
I think the issue is with the no team is that all the no team targetable stuff is deployable terrian. Bob, and turrets and any shields can be walked through while Mei wall, and Life weaver abilities are hard terrian that you can't move through.
Not surprised Bob and turrets aren't affected since they act as player objects dealing damage but I am surprised symmetra teleporter would keep team based on the object types that are reference only.
Maybe its to do with how the object is placed. With Mei and the Lifeweaver abilities, you choose a location then create it. The others are more like a throw, turret, Bob, immortality field ect.
the devs probably just forgot to change it. just like genji ammo
2:31
Im not an expert
But my professional (definently NOT professional) opinion is that its because those 3 in particular can interact with everyone (have a hitbox towards every player, even those on a diffrent team / no team)
IDK about parting gift, but if I had to guess, the reason the other three abilities work like this is because they're physical objects with full player collision, unlike turrets etc.
Still have it in my head that a hero whose ult could turn off teams temporarily-- resulting in the enemy team being able to friendly fire for a brief period-- could be an interesting mechanic. Not inherantly broken by any means-- good players would likely not even need to adjust their playstyle-- but if you were to, say, use it when there's an enemy Dva ult on the field... It would open up for some interesting counterplays. IDK if it's *possible*, but it sure sounds like fun,
goat
I think it is done on purpose as all the abilitys can block areas that players may need to go through, so if echo cant drop a wall, petal or tree, then friendly players are stuck till it naturally dissipate, howver with turrets or bob, they target players and may get teamkills if they are on the noteam value
The cummon thing between those abilities is that they are all can be canceled when you think they are unuseful. However, Echo cannot cancel them when she turns back.
This was my thoughts exactly. It'd be a lot more annoying if an Echo's copied Mei wall stayed up after the copy ends with no way to instantly take it down.
I didnt even notice they deleted that lifeweaver ability.
Best part is the very smooth but swift camera movement at 4:27 😳
omg that made me bust
I think a useful video, though maybe not one that exactly fits your channel, is a compilation of Lifegrip interacting with every other hero's ultimate ability. I had a game recently where my Lucio ult was delayed because I got Lifegripped, and my dps ended up dying because of it.
Echo is a more complicated character than I expected, I always saw her Duplication ult as a bit of a cop-out
She's so complicated that the devs couldn't figure out how to let people swap hero's after she copied them, so they just made it a feature. Gotta love the spaghetti code, it obviously loves her
Babe wake up Marblr posted
This guy is modern Einstein
i dont know why but until i saw emongg’s stream with marblr live i thought his voiceover was ai generated.
anyways this is some good S+ content