Chain Science! How to save up to 30 watts of losses from your bicycle chain!
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- čas přidán 2. 07. 2024
- In the two years since positing this somewhat speculative video on how many watts of drivetrain losses you could save up we have since worked hard to map out all the figures using actual data. So if you are skeptical try this calculator: goo.gl/zzGLB1 for exact number of losses.
/ fastfitnesstips
Here are the tips one by one
1:30 Quick clean on the bike (12w)
1:43 Quality manufacturer (5w)
2:07 Chain length (4w)
2:35 Cross-chaining (3w)
3:10 Chain specification (11sp) (2w)
4:32 Chain wear (2w)
5:15 Deep clean off the bike (1w)
6:06 Super lube (4w)
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Hello, i making a hibrid TT/pista/single speed bike, ¿Which chain would you recommend me? ¿is a standar single speed chain better because is wider maybe has less friction or better a high tech 9-10-11 speed chain? thanks!.
Any suggestions?
ok something happened here which never happened before with me - indepth discussion of chain life/performance without anything incorect, unclear, ambiguous, complicated, product biased... well done!
First time for everything!
Just rewatched - I'm doing most of these tips now - wippermann 11sp, sonic cleaner (£10 off Ebay!) paraffin wax with tungsten disulphide applied by heat. Clean and quiet.
except the audio is well below par
everything was so good up until chain wear/stretch with the weight analogy. the chain doesn't stretch from tension, the cumulative wear on all the pins add up to more play between each link which makes the chain longer and seemingly stretched.
True, that tension itself is not the cause of elongation wear, but it does play a role. The more tension on the chain, the higher the frictional shear stresses that tear away the material within the links and rollers, and the quicker the chain wears out.
Not my chains. I put so much torque they actually stretch.
@@mitchellmtb7202 same for my girlfriends
Boom! great video. Its probably something most of us kinda new but with the science behind it makes us pay more attention to these tips and force us to make changes to our chain maintinance. Thanks.
You just saved me $65 by mentioning that 11-speed chains can be used on 10-speed systems...I had accidentally bought an 11-speed chain....thanks!
Does it really work? I’m running sora on my gravel bike so I can buy nice 11 speed chain?
Im using a 10spd chain on my 9 speed drive train with a 8speed claris rear derailleur works fine shifts crisp
I have a crockpot filled with paraffin wax dedicated to chain maintenance. It's amazing how 'fresh' a drivetrain stays when none of it's components attract or hold grit. Clean is happy.
Maybe not the cheapest option, but maybe getting 3-4 chains simultaniously? every 200km(i use wax, so thats about the time when i would have to bath the chain again in paraffin wax and parafin oil), simply change to the next one, that way you always have a relatively unworn chain for long time. Also, in the case of waxing, if it actually does get really dirty, simply take it off, put on the next one. No need to clean it, wax it and all the stuff that is involved just wax all 3-4 chains at once. Saves a bit of time too
BTW: Buying bike specific degreaser is probably the most cost-uneffective thing, right after buying pinarello frames. I personally use orange/citrus degreaser and heat it slowly up to just under 40°C for factory chains with the factory lube. Put the chain into a container, add the degreaser(or mineral spirits also work srly good), shake for a few minutes and your chain should be sparlking clean and rattle like well...a rattle.
Thanks for the watt-saving tips! I was impressed by the parrafin-based lubricant mention at the end.
One tip on the long metal word "molybdenum" - which many people shorten to "molly."
It is pronounced "moh-lib-deh-numb" not "moh-lib-dee-um." It is a tongue-twister, for sure. The word is at 6:48 and again ten seconds later.
Ride safely, and save those watts for distance! :D
Great video shedding light and summarizing important facts on a subject most pay limited attention to.
Great vid, I feel like I learnt something great and very applicable. 30watt is a lot of saving. Well my chain is not old, so I guess I can just save 15watt from cleaning. That's still very worthwhile power saving.
Drive your training with a dirty chain, appear at the start from a match with a clean one. Top 20 guarantee. 😀
I did this accidentally got a new chain before a race and it felt like i was riding a different bike. Like an expensive fast bike lol.
Really excellent video thank you. love the graphics.
thank you for making a perfect point! Clean chain and lubed all the way.
A rusty old chain is the best way to get fit.
with sand in your water bottles your set for top fitness.
And flat tyres.
Lol I do this with low tyre pressure... train at 80 ish psi but pump upto 110 for a race... give me a extra min or so over a 20k race
On a rusty steel frame
Nice one, Subscribed. Please keep it comin...
I run 2 chains one on the bike and one cleaned and wax dipped ready to go. Helps keep everything on the bike cleaner. Never going back to other types.
Great tips and thanks for sharing.
Morgan blue also make great lubes, as used by many TdF teams. I now see you have it in your 2014 test and it did well, so happy about that. Will try some of your top ones as well. As a cheap lube on old bikes, I use chainsaw lube, same as most but a fraction of the cost
Just changed my chain and chainwheels + set on one of my bikes after around 15K. Could not see even the slightest wear comparing the new and old stuff in spite of a good deal steep climbing. I credit this the fact I only ride this bike with a 99% clean and well lubed chain + this bike was almost never used in rain. Just proves a well-oiled system will go "forever". Shimano Ultega, Dura Ace chain, Finish line wet/ceramic alternating (not doing too well in the test btw...).
This was really good, thanks.
I'll add one point about degreasers that transfers from every other application of degreasers in lubricated machines. Be sure the degreaser is completely removed one way or another before applying the new lubricant, otherwise you seriously degrade your lubrication right away.
Interesting and informative... great work 👍
A chain master class in 7:40 min.
Thank you!!!!!!
Very good tips 👍👍👍👍
thanks check out: czcams.com/video/gDmUPMsGNKo/video.html
Hi! Big THANK to you sir for your excellent and precise knowledge you so generously share with us here! Highly appreciated! Wishing you the very Best always! /Charl
Thank you for the feedback!!
Some great advice there, but 11 speed chains arn't compatible with 9 speed systems because the chain gets stuck between chainring when changing down to the smaller chainring.
I've installed 12 speed chain to 10 speed chainrings without any problem
Very meanningfull video. Did not know and surely will consider those facts.
Nice work .
I am always cleaning my chain!! If it is dry and not that dusty it's once a week. If it was a crappy rainy day right after.
that was super interesting. i am a casual rider (ex racer in 1970s). personally i love a whisper quiet bike and drivetrain. my speed is slow like 24 km/hr, but i do maintain my drivechain better these days than when i raced even. just put on a new shimano ten speed chain and cassette. Lightly degreased before installation. Used a graphite based lube (Muc off). never ever have i felt so pleased about a new chain/cassette. Yes I changed my chain at 5000 km... but I will get a measuring tool...just used the old "mark I eyeball" test. Now that i know an 11 speed chain is better, I will be sure to try that next. I do not think all degreasers are the same... Muc Off is better than others i tried, but it could be the tool from them to get better access to the bits. i am going to watch your tire pressure video next. All my life i just used my thumb and the "ping with finger" pressure test. But i have experimented with slightly different pressures. In old days of tubulars we just pumped it hard to about 100 psi (estimated) on the road and as high as possible on the track. Now i ride 700 x 25 mm tires. by the way, Continental gps 5000 blow away Specialized Roubaix tires (i use the latter for more early season. sorry for the novel. i wonder if anyone will read it.
Awesome videos!
Dude…….thanks best honest information ℹ️ all week 🤓🤨
Good video and helpful, but would a 11 speed chain get jammed between the gears on the cassette on a 9 speed or less due to external width ?
Good video.
A bit of chain love does seem too make a difference ,
Doing my 15 or 20 k daily ride ..... Depending on my old bones ,
About once a week I give my old mountain bike chain a dam good spray drowning with WD 40 using the little tube that turns the spray into a stream.
I Can definitely feel a bit less pedal effort on the ride.
How would this chain work for BMX racing...I currently use a 8 speed narrow road chain
l recall cleaning up the old chain on a used bike l bought took quite a bit work l think he used graphite lube :P so after l cleaned a relubed it went for ride and noticed more skipping going on .So the following year over the winter l bought a new cassette 11-32 for climbing and 50T chainring .l figured all else is new so should the chain and l bought new KMC chain too ,$100 well worth it . l checked how much stretch l got by lining up the chains side by side and got a full chain link of stretch between the two !! SOOOO big difference in performance !! thankfullly he only used it on a trainer !!
The Ultegra/XT chain is very good and not expensive. The Japanese know their stuff. It's the only chain I use.
I always thought that "chain stretch" was due to the pins and bushings wearing out inside, giving the pins more room which will eventually make the chain seem "stretched".
yes thats true, great article on chain wear here sheldonbrown.com/chain-wear.html
The WD40 shown is a water dispersant, not a lube. Diesel is too thick to clean chains with. Petrol and paraffin are great chain cleaners. Aldi's steam cleaner works very well with water soluble degreaser.
Best chain lube I have used so far is the Castrol, Muc off, and WD40 motorcycle chain waxes. Lasts for over a 100miles and good in wet weather.
If you live somewhere where winter is generally cold, wet, salty roads and grim, then you can use diesel as a chain cleaner. When I lived in England and went out for 5 to 7 hours each saturday and sunday and came back with dirt and salt crusted bikes in winter, I'd have a cold soapy bucket of water waiting for a quick 5 minute wash down and a can of diesel and stiff paint brush to clean the chain and chainrings. It was cheap and worked well.
Now, companies like Park have effective chain cleaning tools and cleaners that do the job better. Wash the bike, clean the chain and drive train quickly and after you've showered and chowed down some food, come back and then dry and lube the chain. If you do it often and get in the habit, it's very easy to keep things really clean.
An interesting and informative post. After some research (when I first started riding a recumbent trike), a few years ago, I stumbled upon Chain-L, (which I notice in your list). I must admit, my priority was/is not "Loss-of-power/Watts" but more of "What will last longest." Chain-L is easy to apply when you are running with chain tubes, as most 'bents do: A drop of lube onto the roller just before it goes into the tube allows the lube to drop around the link without falling to the ground. After the tedious oiling of two and a half + chain-lengths, ('Bents have LONG chain runs), run an electric paint-stripping hot air gun over the chain as it goes over the rear sprockets to warm the oil and allow it to penetrate the rollers. Yes it IS messy. But it lasts, survives a drenching without the chain going rusty, and runs really quietly, just needs wiping off before adding some more. It works well for me for my riding to work, and reduces maintenance, but then, I guess I am not the type of rider that this video was aimed at! :-). Thanks for posting!
Me: how to save nearly 100 watts by not being 3 stone overweight.
@Camdyn Charlie you’re right on that one, nobody cares
Thank you!! Off to clean my chain...
I have found wax lubricants to be hopeless for lasting qualities. Engine oil throws off and contaminates braking surfaces. I use a particular oil, not because it is the most efficient, but because it is the most persistent. Particularly INSIDE the pins where it counts. I have been able to reduce the oiling to once a month or about 1500 to 2000 km. And the benefit is that the OUTSIDE of the chain is then less oily and picks up less grit. I shouldn't mention the manufacturer "Morgan" but I have tried countless lubricants over the years and this stands out for the reasons I describe.
What I've read is that larger sprockets are more efficient, because friction is primarily determined by the angle change of each roller and the tension on the chain. Small-small has much higher chain tension (on the power side) than large-large, and the change in angle for each link is higher. This same study also basically said cross chaining wasn't a concern compared to pulley size
recumbent guys with power-side idler pulleys have noted slight differences that favour a 23 tooth idler over a 15 tooth one as well.
In an age of marginal gains. The drag from cross chaining is worth avoiding. Personally, if I can hear noise from the chain when I am cross chaining, my feeling is that this is not only causing loss of power going forward but also causing wear on the chain. Both of which are worth reducing.
Correct length + 1 link help you cross chain a little easier with less stress on the chain and RD
One thing your article does not discuss is balance when it comes to chain lube. You show which lube uses least watts, but this is only (I assume) when chain and sprockets are new. As the link to the worn chain and sprockets show things go downhill when the chain wears. So as with everything there is a balance. Does one lube attract less contamination thus improves longevity? So I guess my question would be, which chain lube is best for not attracting dirt (which speeds wear) also does not lose a lot of watts, and which actually lubricates better? (penetration, lubrication)?
Very good! Thank you
Thank you, bang on
These Watt numbers seem way inflated when concidering the lab-testing which was done by GMBN Tech together with Muc-Off. It was show there that cleaning a chain only saves a marginal amount of Watts (5W at 300W power input if I remember correctly).
It is a very good video. The main issues would be pretty much solved by having full enclosure for the chain drive, but unfortunately this is not done on most bicycles. With a fully enclosed chain there is no build up of dirt so you don't have to clean the chain. Also chain wear is drastically reduced. A chain that normally might only last months will last for years and years.
Interesting suggestion thanks
O-Ring Chain
so if i follow all this advice, coupled with aerodynamics advice and rolling resistance, will my bike propel itself?
Off a cliff, definitely. gravity will be on your side too.
I once restored an old road bike, and with everything done correctly it didn't power itself, but I did discover that many of my local streets had downhill grades that I hadn't previously noted
If you light your fart yes
Automatic transmission fluid is better than regular motor oil so if you have both use ATF1 because when you think about they are both working with gears (there are gears in transmissions
I did a repair on a bike with Dura Ace parts who's owner had been using machine oil and had not cleaned it in some time, he thought the chain lube was to expensive at $20. New chain and cluster cost him $475. There was a loud gulp over the phone when I gave him the quote.
It is too expensive at $20.
Where did the data for the graph of chain lubes at 6:35 come from?
People mostly prefer sensational numbers also in academics, giving the top most result using the keywords "up to" is a common approach in lit. Even if the number 30 watt is for the sprinter that produces 2000 watt momentarily, still a good number. I mean, everybody that uses a power meter, can guess, dirty drivetrain causes only a few watts. What makes the difference for me is the feeling under your feet and legs when you ride clean drivetrain, it makes the flow perfect.
Here's a fact with my New bike. Snuged drive chain to snug. I couldn't pedal it 12 foot. So I loosened drive chain I could pedal it anywhere and even up some hills. To snug of a drive chain causes friction and loses power. To snug of a drive chain causes wear tear and even breakage. It's better for your drive chain to be too loose than too tight.
You can't really messure drive train efficiency in watts.
You can although messure how much percent of a given wattage transfers from your crank into the road.
And as there is the law of conservation of power you can actually hear if something is going siginficantly wrong, because "lost" energy has to transfer into other forms of energy like noise or heat.
Hi... can I use a 9 speed chain on a 7 road bike system?
INFORMATIVE
Good advice on degreasers
I found that my shimano 11 speed drivetrain is more noisy than my 10 speed. Do you have the same opinion?
Great summary Alex! I ran a shimano 105 chain upside down all season without knowing! Any idea how many watts I was losing? Guessing it's not the 4 watts you have for 'correct length'
i use a shimano unidirectional chain. the stamping on the outside part are alternating up and down... so i do not see an "upside".
Wow I’m glad other people are using my wax formula. One micron ptfe powder available on Ebay. Just saying.
Use a 1foot ruler to check chain wear. Each link is 1/2” on new chains. So 12” lines up on ruler.
When that 12” becomes 12 1/16” replace the chain. If it 12 3/32” replace immediately. If it becomes 12 1/8” you need to replace the entire drivetrain, excessive chain wear will wear into chainrings and cog. A new chain will skip over excessively worn gears.
I clean and oil almost every ride, sometimes in middle of the ride if its dirty, dusty, wet, muddy or snowy. I get 4-5 chains worth of wear out of one drivetrain.
If your chain sounds squeaky like angry mice its begging for oil!
Your position on chain tension and lubrication are inconsistent with the IHPVA (International Human Powered Vehicle Association) actual test results. The IHPVA finds that bicycle drive train efficiency goes up with chain tension, at least up to a practical limit, we are not talking about banjo string tightness here. A derailleur equipped bike will have virtually NO static chain tension. 100 years of bicycle and motorcycle drive technology dictates that drive chains should have between a half inch and an inch of up and down motion at the midpoint between sprockets. The IHPVA also finds that complete lack of lubrication will not affect drive train efficiency. I have to admit this is very hard to believe and I never let chains dry out.
Hi +Harv Woien very interesting observations to be sure but I cannot find the actual data from the tests you mention. do you have a link. I am sure future tests will also bring new developments. regarding tension I imagine the effect is a U shaped curve. too low = bad too high = very bad. I find it hard to believe that sky high tension will help because every link and articulation would be under severe pressure. Your recommendation of "half inch and an inch of up and down motion at the midpoint between sprockets" seems to suggest mid-tension in my opinion, not too high not too low. Thanks for the comment.
Here is the link: www.ihpva.org/HParchive/PDF/hp50-2000.pdf
You are correct in that too high a chain tension would result in damage to chain and sprockets. On a bicycle drive train setup, it is very easy to avoid this condition, as 'binding' is easily detected and reversed. Of course, this would be for single speed or internal geared hubs only. For derailleur systems, optimum chain tension can never be achieved.
Just looking again at this interesting paper, does it take into account ability to change gears smoothly, or just lab conditions essentially in a fixed gear?
Well pointed out. Chet Kyle and the IHPVA provided lots of studies that sadly have been lost. Thankfully the study that you pointed out isn't one of those. I have an original binder of the first volumes of Cycling Science that Chet put out back in the 80's and 90's. Lots of information backed up by tests rather than just people warbling on.
What needs to happens in videos like this is a series of tests to validate the claims made. Take a new chain and test on a dyno. Go ride it for a few hundred miles to get it dirty and test on the dyno again. Repeat for all the tests, in order. Just because "waxing a chain" might get you 4 watts and tensioning the chain might get you 3 watts, the combined total will never equal 7 watts. I wish it would work like that but it never does.
Deep cleaning by shaking in a bottle? Are you kidding me? You will not get out the lube from Shimano on a Dura Ace chain by just shaking it a bit. You'll need a sealed container and a small ultrasonic machine and leave it a while. You can't get the parafin wax and telfon in until you get the old grease out.
I have never noticed, even when removing a worn chain that's been "winter cr@pped on", that I gained 30 watts when putting a new chain on, despite having had a power meter
@@Swampster70 Either way, how would you notice with a power meter?
recent tests showed that cross chaining 53;28 wasn't as bad as using small chainrings/cprockets generally (eg: 39/11). The greater friction required to make the tighter turns around the small rings was worse than cross chaining.
thanks John, FYI our sheet fft.tips/drivetrain has all the stats built in on cross-chaining
Best lubes is raw paraffin wax mixed with paraffin oil. Cheap to buy. Melt and mix 50/50. Heat bottle in microwave to melt any solidified wax before use.
Argh you say 5g of PTFE in 500g of wax but I accidently put 50g PTFE (no Molly though) still.. it _seems_ Oki.. at least, the chain feels good and it's clean to the touch. Guess I'll add a bit more wax to the mix next time I turn the cooker thing on and add a bit of molybdenum for good measure, I have some now. Cheers boss!
I use the ProGold lube in the picture you provided, awesome product.
KMC say never completely degrease a chain, and especially so from new - and never use a degreaser. Just clean the outer chain and put new oil on. Sadly, I never got on with wax as I kept getting squeaking, but I am overweight, so I think that's the reason. The same with dry lube, so I only use wet.
From KMC
We recommend never to degrease the chain completely. Also when changing to wax, we recommend to degrease the chain only on the outside. If you degrease the chain completely, we recommend to soak the chain in wax for 12-24 hours, so that this can penetrate into the inside of the chain.
Attention!
Never use acidic or alkaline cleaners (rust remover). These will damage the chain and in extreme cases can lead to breakage.
Never use aggressive degreasers - these will loosen the factory applied grease from the pins. This allows dirt to penetrate and drastically reduces the service life of your chain! Furthermore, these agents are harmful to the environment.
Chain cleaners also often contain solvents that can damage your chain.
www.kmcchain.eu/Maintenance#:~:text=We%20recommend%20never%20to%20degrease,the%20inside%20of%20the%20chain.
My average watts are about 160W, so I don't quite believe I could save 30 watts with chain. That would be 20% of overall power. So, those tips are based on race cyclist power metering. So you should tell the comparison value, or use percents instead of watts.
Yes you are quite right, these estimates need to be personalized ideally with a loss calculator which we haven't created yet but it would be great idea. Absolute losses strongly influenced by rider power.
Ismo Toivonen
Fair point , No idea what my Average watts are I can Max about 220 ish + - depends on how I feel but that won’t be Long At all🤮
The mere thought of a dirty chain makes me lose 11 watts in morale - so 12 watts seems about right!
Watts are watts. A watt is an absolute value and not an estimate.
Swampster70
What ?
Accurate post. When my chain squeaks of shows a sign of rust I pop my chain off, dump into melted paraffin (always put paraffin pan into a pan of water and then heat [this way the paraffin doesn't catch fire]). I'm good to go for about 3K miles. (Chain stays clean)
Fantastic
Thanks
hi I have a video request: I have a9 speed drivetrain with a wheelset that I love. I don't want to change my wheels in order to upgrade to 11 speed. what is the best solution? thanks! love your videos!
you already watched this czcams.com/video/9Ar2zQDvAAc/video.html right? If so is the solution there?
i want to ask .. why are sram and fsa encouraging cross chaining, while shimano and campagnolo are discouraging it?
Thanks for your video. How about installing directional chain the wrong way unintentionally. What are consequences, will the chain be worn out in a short time ?
interesting one. actually the only effect should be slightly worse shifting. I guess there could be small effect on wear rate too but I doubt it.
More noise in my opinion.
drinking game, shot of vodka every time he says chain
Just use a accurate 12 inch ruler to gauge chain wear.
Your right about the home deep clean BUT DONT USE PETROL in a container and shake it up - I did, and for some reason the petrol wants to expand as you shake it - HUGE pressure builds up, with obvious safety implications...........I now use white spirit or paraffin and it works just great without the explosive potential. I have an ultrasonic at home, a good one, which I used to use, but now I MUCH prefer to simply dump the chain in an old plastic milk container, and add a little solvent, shake it up and repeat.........I then use the old dirty solvent as firelighter on a rag in our woodstove.........I can honestly say shaking up in a container is as good as the ultrasonic, but quicker and much easier................I also have made my own paraffin chain wax from candles and paraffin, and that is super slippery and super clean on the chain and cogs.....35years of cycling and I think I've got the system that I'll stick with for the rest of my days. The wax also works well on pine furniture like "Briwax" - Very Happy !
You can improve your liquid paraffin with tungsten disulfide
Will the 11speed chain not wear out faster than the 10 speed ? (even though tolerances are better)
no just the same
Can we talk about what the term "stretch" means when we are discussing chains?
The main wear and tear component of a chain is the inside of the rollers. Rollers with a worn inner bore is what gives a worn chain the illusion of chain stretch.
Although there's a lot of opinions on the best way to look after your chain the worst thing you can do to a new chain is to give it a deep clean, as you will strip the factory applied lubricant from inside the chain which will be very hard to replace no matter how much lube you apply after! You are better off just to clean the chain normally so it's dry then apply your chosen lube!
I think chain efficiency may be much more than just a few watts. 53/(15/16/17) would be within the 3% angle, but you will lose about 0.5% for every other gear to the left or right from there.
exact loss calculator is on our patreon channel right now.
The point about chain stretch isn't accurate but great info otherwise! Essentially, if you're racing, get a new chain! It's a cheap part to replace, especially considering the time cost of cleaning.
Cleaning is a much better option then throwing it away.
Time cost of cleaning? It doesn't even take long to clean.
Hi, When you speak about not putting too much tension on a chain, can you give an example of what you consider the best chain length. Most videos say that too little tension is not good so where is the crossover point in your opinion or maybe you could give an example of chain length for a 53T with 28T rear?
Hi Paul, cannot give an exact figure (try an online chain length calculator) but here is a quick tip: rotate cranks backwards and feel the resistance (or do the same forward with the bike upside down)....now ease the tension in the chain by pressing on the rear derailleur pulley arm (in direction towards the cranks) and repeat. What do you notice about the drivetrain friction.....it should be substantially less.
@@Fastfitnesstips Wow, that was quick thanks. Yes if you press the derailleur to loosen the chain everything moves easier but isn't this too little tension in this state.
yes, too low tension in the RD would cause chain drop. but too high causes higher friction.....so best to experiment a bit with your setup on your preferred riding surface
Another video recommended wax but also said it needed doing quite regularly, if I recall correctly it was around every 200 miles. 🤔
I would agree ot wears off quicker than you expect but its still so worth it 👌
But where are shimanos lubes, wet and dry?? It is the most common lube at least where I live..
Great. I would treat in a nano surface treatment like "Roil" . Similarly the sprockets. Polish and treat. Forget WD40
The only nano surface treatment which is legit is high velocity impingement with ultra fine tungsten disulfide dust, and that doesn't get into rollers. So instead WS2 doped paraffin is used to deliver the WS2.
Interesting comments from SRAM on this subject - although I don't agree 100% with everything they say, I do think the savings for some of these measures are overstated.
-------
"Very little efficiency is lost when cross-chaining. And in the case of big-big, minuscule efficiencies lost to cross-chaining are offset by efficiency gained because of larger bend radii for the chain. Better chain management and easier access to tall gears certainly outweigh any efficiency loss.
A few words on efficiency measurements. There are enormous differences between the efficiency measured on a loaded drivetrain and an unloaded drivetrain (what your hand feels when spinning the crank on a bike in a workstand). The sluggishness that cross chaining sometimes appears to cause on a bike in the stand disappears when the drivetrain is under load. It’s analogous to lubes in loaded and unloaded mechanical systems. Light oil generally feels better than heavy grease when a system is worked by hand, but when the system is loaded the heavier lube will be more efficient.
Similarly, cross-chaining is not a concern for premature component wear unless of course your chain is wearing through your front derailleur."
Cyclespeed Tours also interesting is that SRAM don't mention any numbers ;-) "very little efficiency is lost" is pretty vague for describing marginal gains.
True, although 'very little' and 'miniscule' suggest that the losses are so low as to not be worth worrying about, even in the world of marginal gains.
wax is best, it extend chain life for 30-50%, i tested it, wax it every 120-140km, every 3. waxing was with cleaning in petrol to clean old dirty wax, i use induction heater to heat up chain on bike without flame and put some wax in stick to touch and melt on chain
FINISH LINE WITH TEFLON DRY AND WET NO 1 !
also, a viscous oil won't drip off. quite the opposite in fact.
Do 11S Chains fit on 10S Drivetrains? I thought, that they are slightly smaller
Yes, the higher speed chains just have a thinner width, so they can fit between the extra cassette sprockets. Note that there is also the 3/32 vs 1/8 difference as well though.
do you have a coaching service? great information #gamechanger
yes sure email fitnessradaruk@gmail.com or PM Alex Fastfitnesstips on facebook
Gawd. Even 10-speed chains scare me. Now , I’m supposed to trust 11-speed?
I’ve been using paraffin wax tor years, with great success. Even in sloppy winter conditions, the dirt and grime don’t seem to make their way in between the pin and rollers.
What if the 11speed chain jams between the chain rings on your 9 speed system due to the fact it narrower....? Be careful as your recommendation may be mechanically callus!
The internal width of modern chains 8,9,10,11 is always the same ie they fit over the same cog size/width....its the outer measured width that differs and then only slightly. If anyone actually had the chain jam between cogs I'd be surprised because the width of the chain is bigger that the inter-cog width. However a chain can jam between cassette and frame of course.
Where does rock n roll holy cow come into this?
I don't think you can add up those watts savings. So a clean chain saves 12w and a quality chain saves you 5w. You don't add those together, you only get 12w from a good chain that's also clean.
Not only that, but surely these are percentages. No one goes from 100-130 watts because of a chain.
How do watts and body weight calculate? For every 10 lbs. body weight loss, how many watts do I increase?
That's a very hard question to answer without knowing what riding/training you are doing and even then hard to predict. Why not just measure it and see? However back of an envelope cal....the watt/kg will usually stay about the same with weight loss providing you train the same.
wait. did I see WD-40 in your list of lubes? I have been using that for decades, and yet, every bike shop I ever go into yells at me (yes, I had a bike shop tech yell at me) to never use WD-40. meh. it works.
and, I use an engine de-greaser. Anything that cleans off a car's engine works brilliantly on bike chains as well.
WD40 = degreaser and light oil combined. It kindof works if you are in a hurry but effects wear off fast.
I generally re-apply every Sunday evening.
@@shannonstrobel6727 it works for an extremely short period of time and attracts a ton of dirt. use the parrafin method.