Chain waxing and lubes revisited (15min grunge method is not a marginal gain)
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- čas přidán 4. 07. 2024
- We revisit the hot topic of chain lubes and chain waxing; with at least 3 new products this year we ask: is immersion waxing still the gold standard? What are the gains in lubes in terms of $/watt and $/watt-year.
CHAPTERS
0:00 Intro
1:00 Price per watts/year
3:30 Remove chain
3:49 Opinions on chains waxing
4:10 Likely gains in percentages
5:10 Degreasing the chain
7:00 Tools required
7:45 Dry the chain
8:44 Melt wax
9:15 Immerse chain slowly
9:35 Chain wear by manufacturer
10:20 Agitate chain
11:10 Chain lubes compared
11:45 Find tipping point after cooling
12:50 Cost per watt year
13:40 Willingness to pay
15:00 Brush off chain
15:15 fft.tips/drivetrain calculator
15:50 Time gains according to chain friction
16:15 Silent chain after waxing
17:44 Refit chain and clean up!
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#fastfitnesstips #chain wax #drivetrain friction - Sport
Hi, our shop is now open! shop.cyclingapps.net/ Plus here are the steps shown:
1 Prepare tools + preheat wax (for 10mins)
2 Remove chain with quick link
3 1st Clean chain with degreaser (quality makes almost no difference here)
4 2nd Clean with mineral spirits/turpentine/alcohol
5 3rd clean is a wash with soapy water & dry well
6 Check your wax is completely liquid (90°C) with no lumps
7 Add hook/wire to chain (to fish is out later)
8 Place chain in liquid wax carefully
9 Submerge chain completely
10 Agitate gently for 1min (until all bubbles disappear)
11 Turn off heater so wax+chain cools (this will take about 5mins keep an eye on it!)
12 Watch for wax to *start* to change
into gloopy semi-solid
(this will happen around 50°C)
THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT STEP. Wait too long and it will be a gloopy mess, too short and all the liquid will run of
13 Remove chain carefully
whilst wax still liquid (but only just liquid)
14 Hang chain on hook and wipe clean
(this removes excess wax on outside)
15 Agitate or brush the chain whilst
hanging (to remove awkward wax between links)
16 Allow chain to cool for about 2min
17 Refit chain to bike with quick link
18 Spin cranks so loose wax flies off (dont worry all the good wax is still inside)
19 Clean up! 😂
20 Enjoy the bonus watts!
Blog version: medium.com/fastfitnesstips/grunge-waxing-why-quick-waxing-your-chain-is-still-worth-it-a9715fe4e518
Motobike version: czcams.com/video/VnPYdcbcAe0/video.html
Winners from this competition (email us with your address):
ted n ruth
| jonathan fisher | Harley Moore
I have been waxing for about 4 years now , I use an Ultrasonic Cleaner , and then wax it with Parafin wax mixed with tifllon..
Yes it takes me more than 30 mins to do it ,and after 100 km I top it up with any wax drip lube this makes it , the wax that wax immersed bitween the pivots almost stays intact... and thus I don't have to re wax the chain again till 6 months.
Note :Cleaning the chain with cold water also keeps the chain cleaner and avoids melting the wax bitween the pivots.
Alex, you suggest to clean with the grunge method every 400ks but this means without wax right?
@@iischia no with wax! degrease, clean, wax = 15mins
I guess I am one of the odd folks that regularly waxes his chain and have done so for many years now. I have long since passed the age and ability where the watts I save are actually noted, but I do it for several reasons anyway. No black greasy marks on my leg. I love the sound of a well lubricated drive train. Finally, I actually enjoy maintaining my bike and thus waxing is not a chore. I use an ultrasonic cleaner for cleaning and a parraffin and Teflon mixture heated in Crockpot for waxing.
What teflon size (in the microns) and ratio to parrafin do you use?
I agree 100%. I don't understand why this "grunge" method is using degreaser and solvents. There's no grease or anything to "dissolve" on my previously waxed chain. A mild detergent with the ultrasonic cleaner (heated to 50C) seems to remove the dirt quite well. I do two ultrasonic passes and "shaker jar" the chain a few times before the second pass. The second pass isn't really needed but I use the clarity of the mild soapy water as evidence that the chain really did get clean.
The for time, my process can take many hours start to finish. But the time that I personally spend on it is only 5 -10 minutes. I spend time:
1) Start crock pot heating up wax.
2) Start heating up water and jar with water and mild detergent in the ultrasonic cleaner.
3) Remove chain and put it in a the jar.
This takes 2-3 minutes at most. I go do something else as things are heating up.
4) Turn on ultrasonic cleaner when temp is up to 50C. The temp is important to melt the wax. Run for 20-30 minutes.
This takes seconds to push the buttons. I then go do something else.
5) Discard dirty water in jar. Rinse and shake the jar with plain water a couple times until there are no bubbles. Optional for the OCD folks, put in new soapy water and run ultrasonic again for 20-30 minutes. Solution shouldn't get very dirty.
Again, this takes a couple of minutes.
6) Dump soapy water and rinse/shake chain in jar until there are no more bubbles. Hang chain up and dry with towel. Let air dry. If you are in a rush and want to spend the time, use a blow drier or heat gun to speed up the drying process.
7) Your wax should be well melted by now. Stir wax if you have Teflon or other additives in it. Drop chain in. Let it soak while you watch TV, have a snack or do whatever.
8) Remove chain. Hang it up and wipe it down with paper towels while still hot.
This process takes very little of my personal time. The devices spend time doing the work. I just tend to them now and then. I have three chains for my main bike so that I always have either one or two chains ready to go. I just replace the chain (In minutes - no mess) with a freshly waxed one if I hear my chain making any noise on a ride. I probably ride 300-400 miles a month and the chain seems to last about a month before it needs changing. I live in a dry area with almost no rain/water to deal with.
I started waxing my chains (on 3 bikes) some time back.
My observations:
1- yes, it is quite hectic the whole process and yes it takes time - especially the first clean of the chain from the oil you used before or even worse: the oil from the factory of chain
2- heating wax takes time (slow heating)
3- picking up the chain from the bowl requires "fast fingers" as you would need to do it in around 55C and clean it off and put on the cogs before it gets completely cold because you need to remove the rest of the wax before it "freezes" completely - if you miss this point your gears will be very hectic for first 15 minutes or so to the point that you might not be able to change gears even
4- I have not been successful with riding for 250-300km as described on one waxing - I have dissolved some wax in the alcohol and I have it always with me to rewax it on the go every 50-70km
Summary:
1- the perfect outcome is: your bike is clean (apart from the white wax all over, especially on the chain stay and pulleys) - dirt is completely out of your drivetrain and no dirty oil on your fingers in case you need to put the chain on the crank again
2-if you want to go on ride longer than 300km from your garage... I am not sure how to handle this yet as chain requires re-waxing
3-cost effective? I am not sure. You need to buy few things: slow cooker, wax, PTFE, thermometer, 90% alcohol, good quality chain link (reusable) etc. They say chain and cogs will wear much slower - I don't have enough km done on wax to confirm or negate it
4-time consuming it is plus not everybody is able even to do so
As long as I still have my wax with PTFE I will stay with it - especially that I maintain 3 bikes at once but on the long run - we will see.
late answer, but there is liquid chain wax that you can take on the 300km+ rides if you don´t want to take another chain. :)
And imho it is cost effective after a year of doing it, my chains/cassettes last about 5 times as long with wax. I have done 15.000km with wax now and can confirm. Wax 2-3 chains at once and cycle them, saves a lot of time...if you are not already doing that with those multiple bikes.
God bless this mans son, he will save so many watts when he cycles it will be crazy
$5 Craigslist crockpot, pound of wax and 50g of PTFE has lasted me all year for 3 bikes. Under $20 all in
That's my answer too. I have a crock-pot for the wax off of Amazon. Leave it full, wipe the chains, dip them, done.
I do recommend a crock-pot with a low setting. I had a single-temp cooker that boiled the wax (pot wasn't even close to full).
Same diy here, without the PTFE, only wax and lampoil. Use drip on wax sometimes if in a hurry. Works fine for years already and no dirty hands or oil smearing in the car anymore.
I wax thanks to Oz cycles.
welcome to the club ;)
same here, is really the cheapest
However look what has happened to the price of Ptfe powder..... Nearly as expensive as a certain other white powder LOL
Same. Love that guy!
me too!
After doing super clean oz method I did a paraffin and PTFE 10 to 1 mix and dip. I rode 300 km and loved the feel and sound. I accidentally dropped the chain off the chainring. I stopped reached down with bare hands and reset the chain. Ran my hand down the chain and there was absolutely no stain or black marks on my hands. I will never go back to oils again!
I was actually just starting to get "wax-curious" so this video really came at the best possible time! Love the channel!
I have found some candles lying around but I have yet to decide whether to have my bike smelling of Midnight Jasmine, Vanilla Cupcake or Tonka Bean and Pumpkin.
OzCycle has an excellent video or 2 on cleaning and waxing chains. The single biggest time saver would be doing 2 or more chains at the same time. If you can do 1 chain in 15 minutes you can probably do 3 in about 18 minutes. Keep them packed away and you can swap out a dirty chain for a freshly lubed one in a few minutes.
I am yet to do it but 1 of the single biggest benefits of the waxed chain is it is entirely dry so no dust or dirt will stick to it. Being bone dry and exceptionally clean it also means that you aren't getting dirty when removing your rear wheel to repair punctures etc.
OzCycle has actually tested the process and compared it with others. What blew me away on 1 of the videos was the clean hands after handling a chain that's been out on the road. I'd pay $1/W to not get grotty hands.
It's a myth that waxed chains don't get dirty. They still collect dirt and black grimy stuff. Not as messy as wet lubes but can still mark your lightly colored pants or the back seat of your car. The video by oz cycle shows him touching the chain and no grime coming off it. My experience is not that squeaky clean. Also, if you are indoors, the wax still makes a mess of your carpet. Again, don't believe all the hype without critically thinking about it and give it a shot yourself.
I started this year, 5 chains in rotation. So easy once you do your first initial clean. I like it so much I’ve done my kids and wife’s bikes. No more oil on my clothes. So much better all round. Follow the OZ cycle vid and mix with Teflon. I’ve managed to pass this on to many other club members. Believe the hype!
@@garethtupling2481 5 chains! yeah, then its definitely worth the hassle. For me, the initial cleaning process was kind of a turn off, had to spend few days making sure i stripped off all the factory grease off the chains. Now, I have all these chemical discard just sitting in my tiny apartment. No way to safely discard bcoz of covid situation. :(
@@nirajshr Yes. Waxed chains still get dirty. But the mess and marks they leave are far less messy than the typical lubed chain. I'd be concerned about rubbing anything dirty (including the bike) on car upholstery, but I'd bet a mark from a waxed chain on upholstery or clothes would clean up pretty easily given there is no grease/oil involved. It's just dirt and paraffin. Brush it off. All bets are off if you have moly in your wax. I replaced my chain today, taking it off with my hands. All I had to do was wipe my hands against each other to brush off the bit of dirt I picked up by handling the chain.
Always enjoy your deep dives and presentations...as an avid squirt user you have convinced me to try the wax method as I love saving $ and increasing performance to boot.
Sounds like having 2 or 3 chains and using them in rotation every 250kms would save a lot of waxing time ...
This. Chains last 3x longer than the cassette on average, so rotating 3 means everything wears out perfectly together. I’ve been doing it for years now and it does save time/components
Sorry, I meant the other way round - cassettes last 3x longer 👍
Snap.
I love this idea!
I started waxing this year and I love it for the cleanness of it. The chain comes off, just reach down and rehook it to the front chainring and keep going! 1000 miles on my first waxed chain.
Squirt still the best in my oppinion. Super practical also for normal commuter bike use. Super fast on road bike or tt bikes as well. It's actually faster when still liquid, so if you have a clean chain and have a TT, you have a super fast but cheap and practical lubricant you can just buy at any bikeshop...
Alex, you have put out some excellent objective and science based analysis recently....so subbed.
I am a physio that worked with GC teams until a few years ago, and I haven't been able to fault anything of yours I've seen.
Regarding waxing, elite track cyclists have known of the wax advantage for decades.
Personally, I never bothered waxing my road bike chain until groupsets moved to 11 speed.
I have noted 11 speed chains, cassettes, and chainrings do not last as long as lower speed, due to quicker chain stretch and sprocket wear.
This got me back interested in waxing.
To reduce time and hassle of waxing, and lengthen drive train longevity, I recommend the following:
- If changing to waxing for the first time, it is best to start with new chainrings, cassette, and 4 chains. With everything new, you minimize wear.
- Rotate 4 chains on the same bike, and wax all chains at the same time. Why? If you get ~400 km/chain between waxes, and cycle 8000km/year, then you need to do 20 waxes a year.
4 chain rotation ca reduce waxing from every 2.5 weeks, to every 2 months or 6x a year..... by waxing 4 chains together.
- Reduced waxing time is not the only benefit. When rotating chains every 400km you reduce rate of wear of cassettes and chainrings because you don't terminally stretch chains (and apply greater friction to sprockets) between chain changes.
On 11 speed cassettes, several times I have put a new chain on only to have bad chain slip occur, even after 0.5% chain wear of 3 chains. Chain slip is a serious safety issue...so any maintenance that avoids it should be adopted.
Other tips:
- use an infrared thermometer to gauge temp. of wax, especially if using saucepan on hotplate or gas ring.
- use dedicated slow cooker or saucepan and leave wax in it. don't try to pour out into another container.
Never waxed my chain properly but your video has convinced me to give it a go.👍
I have been using Molten Speed Wax for about a year and I will never go back. So far it has extended the life of my 11 speed chains by 3 times, no more chain marks on jerseys and if my efforts on my test TT couse is anything to go by there is a speed/power advantage. I keep 2 chains running (I have been buying pre cleaned YBN from Zero Friction Cycling in Adelaide). When I remove a chain after around 300km I drop it into boiling water for 5 minutes to remove the grunge, quick shake in turps to remove any road oil, and quick coat in methanol (it provides a water barrier) and let dry. When I have two chains to wax I put them on a swisher I made with a coat hanger and drop them into a rice cooker for 10 min till the wax melts and then give them a good swish. Hang them up to dry, put on the new chain and drop the spare into a bag. At most 15-20 minutes every fortnight.
You got your method down James!
Thanks Alex, I’ve been using the drip on wax for a couple of years and the results have been good until it’s wet. Definitely going to try immersion method 👍
Building a new bike after 20 yr.s and your site is great!
this deserves way more likes.
When I saw the title, I almost expected to see you break out the electric guitar, flannel shirt, and long shorts to rock us with your Dave Grohlesque stylings while your chain was soaking in the hot wax. :-D Great video, Alex. Thanks for the tips. Cheers! On a side note, cleaning my chain on the bike with a chain cleaning machine, de-greaser, brushes, and air blown from a compressor, then lubing with drip lube takes me more than 15 minutes, so your Grunge Method looks to be a real time saver for me.
😂 .....tbh if you have to do it once per month, then 15mins is enough for me even if there is another 1w of gains untapped
Regardless of the effort/time/supplies needed, waxing a chain is such a satisfying process!
I’ve tried waxing for the first time and love how quiet it is now. I haven’t ridden it long enough to judge durability though. I’d really like to try the AB lube though!
Thanks, great video. I spent 40+ years in the lubricant industry, and developed many products. The “secret sauce” insanity has finally come home to chain/cycling industry. A solid lubricant such as graphite or teflon suspended in wax does by far do the best job. Running a perfect chainline always uses less watts than any angle. How often does that happen? Not much.
I've been using wax for 4 or 5 years now. Switched from the OZ cycling parafin/lamp oil to Molten SpeedWax a couple years ago. Have a small crockpot dedicated to my chains.
I moved to waxing and have never looked back. I purchased the same wax melting devise you use. I re-wax my chain once a week.
I have been waxing chains for two years , using the Molten Speed wax. I run 4/5 sets of chains, so waxing process is greatly reduced. Something worth considering. Only draw back i have noticed is a slightly higher noise when cross chaining (I run 1X) , but also a sign I need to switch to new wax chain. Good work on this video. Cheers Rav
Since watching this, I had to try the AB product, so I have ordered the smaller bottles. Lets see how these fair. (They are not cheap)
I have wondered about waxing for sometime now and always thought the benefits were not there unless you are racing, which I don't do anymore. However, after watching your video I think I will have to give it a go!
Thanks much.
Check the calculator for the actual time savings
Another fantastic video, Alex! Had been considering wax for a while and I finally dove in a few months ago. Some incremental power efficiency gains from waxing are definitely there, but I'm more into waxing due to the cleanliness and increased drivetrain lifespan. I'm going to see how long I can keep my chains going this year as compared to my previous lubes.
The only negatives I have (and there small ones) is when I'm about 60-70% along the way towards it being time to re-wax and I have a longer, 60 to 100 mile ride planned. Do I go ahead and re-wax before the ride or do I do the ride and go over my usual 180 mile re-wax interval risk increased wear past the jump point? It's a bit more work, so up until now I usually re-wax before any long ride that will put me past my usual re-wax point. I may go to waxing 2 chains at a time and rotating them on the bike and that might help make it a little easier. And I haven't found a good solution to lubrication/waxing on ride day or during the ride if I need it.
Have seen so many of your videos, but I miss them lately. Hope to see more on your channel!
Thanks for the kind feedback! In your case keeping a set of wax chains (at least two but three is best) is likely the way to go because the workload to do two is not so much more than one. Plus it's good for the cassette to rotate the chain. Regarding the video production line I needed s break and had covid twice and have done a lot of coaching instead but still doing blogs at cyclingapps.net. #happytraining
@@Fastfitnesstips Thanks so much, Alex! I think I probably need to order a new chain or two. I broke out a new chain today and I'm waxing it too as my current chain will be pushing 0.5% before too long.
So sorry to hear about covid, twice! Dang! Sure hope you are making a full recovery. I'll be looking forward to more excellent video productions soon.
As usual a really good video
I've never considered waxing before. Can you tell me what cook/heating pot you use please, it looks a convenient size. Thanks.
im using squirt regularly...im typically wiping the outside of the chain off after every other ride and then doing a full degrease every few hundred miles. Is the wipe down i do helping/hurting/not necessary?
i did a full degrease and clean on my chains (4) and cassettes (2) and applied Tru Tungsten drip wax. Chosen because it was recently added / scored very high on the key comparison tests (better than Squirt / Smoove), just below MSW. So far very happy,
the key point is it only took a couple of hours of prep, but I am saving more time than that every week as my chain picks up zero dirt now. 10 seconds to run a cloth over it. Maybe later a wash with water, but no degreaser necessary, as there is no grease / lube. No grinding paste
I added more wax after 200 miles.
A great intro before going the full immersion / crock pot method, but I guess I am already getting most of the advantage of wax
So simple. Been waxing chains on road and mtb bikes for years....brilliant. Started melting half a candle on camping stove. Now use paraffin wax pellets with 10% ptfe powder in slow cooker. 10 mins. Clean chain with hot water,soak chain. Refit.good to go. Clean transmission!
Does it hold a candle to other lubes?
Just started chain waxing using zerofriction. YBN chain and Mspeedwax. Very happy with the results. Smooth and quiet and ran in light rain.
Agreed, cost over a racing season, considering saved watts & difficulty/time involved, are key points for the typical competitive rider. Very interesting ;-)
Always like yer vids, and enjoy the actual testing, science, not marketing. Have always toyed with the idea of waxing....
I've been using Squirt for a while now. Works well. Affordable. Easy to apply. As a non-racer it makes sense for me, but would love to try the AB product.
Started waxing last winter with cheap paraffin, 1st batch took a long time because of the cleaning of the dirty chain. Did the immersion, put it on my bike last spring and it's been running perfectly all summer.
Back in the day when I tried waxing chains, I'd use a heat gun and lint free cloth when wiping the excess wax off after dipping.
It did reduce the amount of wax rubbing off on sprockets and chainrings etc.
Hope this tip helps someone.
Yep. I'm not sure I agree with letting the chain cool down in the wax and removing just before 50C. There's no way the wax drips substantially off even a quite hot chain - which is why I also wipe it down right after removing it from the wax.
Hey guys, been doing straight paraffin wax immersion for a while. I get ok results maybe 300km. Going to try some additive like ptfe or ws2. I’ve been topping up with squirt between waxing, however this last time after a boil off clean, my wax pot darkened quite a bit like there was some oil in it. Does squirt contain a oil carrier, is it compatible with the oz approach? Or do I just need to do a regular degrease/wash/solvent before immersion waxing in my routine? Cheers.
10 speed link does work on 9,8,7 speed chain? Or works on 11,12,13, speed chain
I need exact size of chain link to connect or use in my 8 speed chain thanks
Tried this on mtb and road chain . The road chain lasted a month of winter riding and the mtb chain lasted 1 week in wet and muddy conditions. Worth doing if you have the time.
I would like to ask about cases where conditions are not that perfect. For example, riding when there is a lot of very fine dust that will simply get into the chain (it does not require sticky lube, it sticks by itself - it is actually a pulverized clay). Can it be detrimental to run the chain for another 200km, since the wax will still hold but will have some dust in it?
Also, how does the wax hold in extreme conditions like pouring rain and some sandy mud - i.e. a liquid sand paper (not drizzle and some nice gravel roads)?
Does anyone have any experience in these conditions?
Interesting and I'm closer to trying it again. I tried wax about 30 years ago and ended up with a very stiff chain and a ruined popcorn popper.
I've been using Squirt for about 4 years now. I apply it after every 2-3 rides and wipe the excess off before the next ride. I don't ride much in the rain anymore but the chain will start squeaking after about 50-100km if wet, though. I would probably use a different lube if riding in the rain regularly.
I suggest getting a used crock pot dedicated to chain wax. Yard sales or thrift shops are a good place to get them.
I remove the chain hot and wipe it down with a folded over paper towel. That makes it a bit less stiff. I also roll the chain up after waxing. So that loosens it up a bit for when I eventually install it on the bike.
I’ve tried immersion method it gives a silent chain but it gives reduced snap when I stamp on the pedals it doesn’t feel the same as individual roller pin lubring. I think the immersed chain acts like an o ring chain and the rollers squeeze the wax that is trapped in between link and roller. The chain may have less friction but it seems to absorb power under acceleration. This was especially noticeable on a worn fixed chain where the wax could be seen to squeeze out of the roller pin interface.
I started waxing my chain about 6 months ago. I made a mix of Candle wax/liq parafin/ PTFE/black graphite. The aim is to have it soft enough at riding temperature that it does not flake off in use but solid enough that it sets. The total cost of ingredients was 10 pounds, plus 13 pounds for a cheap rice cooker to melt and keep the wax in. I now find that just hot soapy water and alcohol wash followed by immersion in the above mix takes approximately 20 minutes, thats every 500km (less when riding in the rain). Since it takes about 30 minutes to clean my bike, if I incorporate the 2 jobs it adds almost no time as the chain is in the bath whilst I am cleaning the bike. Apart from using a few drops of white lightning on very long rides (more than 500km), I will never go back to conventional lube. When the bath gets a bit dirty after 3 months. empty out the cold wax block, scrape of the bottom 2 or 3 mm of dirt and grit and the wax is ready to reuse. I think the whole wax block will last more than 1 year for 3 bikes.
On-chain wear, I measure the stretch using a park chain tool. I have noticed chains lasting longer sometimes almost double the Kms in the summertime .. now I am prepared to invest more in the actual chain since I am getting through fewer of them. The latest ones I have been trying are KMC DLC Celest on my Bianchi .... it looks stunning :)
I’ve been waxing with paraffin wax for a couple of years. I have wondered what would happen if I added ptfe powder of graphite to the blend. Graphene is an interesting option but did not know this existed. Ultimately the greatest benefit to waxing is the smoothness and perceived wattage gain for the same effort. The number two by product is the cleanliness. No more shin skid marks. Graphite will leave a black mark. Is this the same for graphene.
while not racing I put clean bike on top of the advantages
I originally used a wax formula that included Teflon and molylbdenum di sulfide (MoS2) which the literature I have states is similar to graphene in appearance, feel, and qualities. The resulting wax mixture is medium to dark gray and can leave a stain on your fingers and calf, but not nearly to the extent that typical oil based lubricants do and it doesn't smear. I eliminated the MoS2 from my second batch and since I am not an elite rider I can tell no difference in my bike's performance, but now there are no stain concerns what-so-ever.
Is there a known downside to mixing products? For instance, you’ve waxed your chain a while back but it’s starting to wear off, and you want to go for a ride but haven’t got the time to rewax. Can you add in a different drip on product, or can that simply mess up your wax?
Great question, most find this ok, but I have more success removing old wax and restarting.....however you can just skip to the wax heater if you don't mind a little dirt in the wax and higher chain wear
I tried waxing about two months ago. Most enjoyable think is no black grease everywhere, no need tones of paper tissues, gloves, etc.
Literally just changed my chain today. Sick of how quickly they wear out despite regular cleaning and lubing. Is it just melted candles you are using and the where would I get the heating device? Thanks
I bought cheap paraffin wax powder and I combine is with MSW. Just buy a cheap wax heater for $20 using terms "hot wax pot heater"
Really interesting video, thank you :-)… I generally always maintain & clean my bikes & don’t mind the amount of time it takes to do so as I would rather have a bike that works better & lasts me. I am interested to know what you personally feel is the ideal combination if waxing (PTFE etc) the chain, also temperature to heat it too as well.
My personal view is plain and simple MSW or paraffin is fine (without extras) and temp officially is 93degC but you dont need to be exact as long as the wax is entirely LIQUID with the chain in.....you can assess my eye, you dont need a probe.
@@Fastfitnesstips thank you :-)
Great explanation!
I do use squirt lube since maybe a year or so. I'm just commenting because of the give away bottle. I's allways a pleshure to watch your tech videos 🙋
Was a Squirt user, wished I'd gone to immersive waxing when I first saw this. Got Silca's melter and wax, much cleaner and lubricates chain beautifully.
i have a 5 liter slow cooker and do 2 chains at a time. usually have 3 or 4 chains to do when i do it. but i have never bothered about cleaning the chains before waxing other than the chain being washed with the rest of the bike ( usually wax chain after a bike wash) . biggest ride was 670km in a week and chain was still quiet. 130km of those km was raining too.
Thanks for the tip. Definitely gonna save me some $$. :)
I would suggest an immersion in denatured alcohol/methylated spirit after washing off the degreaser/mineral turps in hot (soapy) water. The alcohol is hydrophilic and will effectively dry the chain and then it evaporates.
I've used immersion technique for track racing, where Kms are fewer and always in the dry. I have used it on the road too but I have found it lasts a lot less than 3-400kms, may be less than 100km. I find Squirt is good for 3-400km or a busy weekend, which I prefer. Either way, if riding in the wet with a wax-based chain lube, it pays to dry the chain off as thoroughly as possible afterward. If not - expect rust overnight!
Gravel road and hard peddling trail I wore out a chain in 100 km. The chain was wiped and oiled before each run. I switched to waxing. I love it. Chain is clean. Peddling is easier. Probably can go a gear higher in the harder peddling trails
I use squirt. It takes 15 seconds, not 15 minutes. I apply it every 200-300 miles and typically get 8000+ miles out of a chain and get 3 chain changes out of my cogset. The time savings for Squirt far, far, far out weights the few watts savings that parafin wax might give, especially if you are not actually racing. Most of us ride for a thousand reasons other than racing and a few watts really doesn't matter. But by using Squirt vs parafin, how many years of your life will you save?
How do you find the chains run in terms of noise. I was finding after 20-30 miles the chain got noticeably noiser, and I ended up with congealed black wax around jockey wheels and chainrings. If I use less squirt lube the noise is worse. (SRAM red groupset)
Fred Sage
After two ultrasonic cleanings, I use the immersion method with MSW. I save both time and money by processing eight chains at once. It takes about an hour to complete all eight chains, but that's less than 10 minutes per chain. After installing a chain with a quick link, I add a dose of Molton Racers Edge graphite additive to give me the most efficient drive chain possible. I've been using this method with the same eight chains for more than 30,000 miles with almost no chain wear (> .2MM). Since my cassette cogs and chainrings aren't wearing, I'm saving not only watts but also money.
Eight chains! That's got to be a record!!
Thanks Alex, I'm going to start using Speed wax
How many watts does sealant add when putting it inside an inner tube ? I am considering buying Vittorias corsa control g 2 tlr for every day use for the added benefits. I saw latex tubes were recommended for the 5W saving but they ofcourse wouldn’t work well with sealant and aren’t the best at prolonged braking at descents. I think I value my life more for 5W and saw continental offered supersonic inner tubes which if I’m not wrong are roughly the same weight as latex but are butyl so that should definitely save me watts, but if you put sealant in, how many watts would that cause me to lose ? The recommended amount is 3 oz for a road bike from slime.
Sealant costs about 0.06w per ml of sealant so 30mls would cost about 2w
FastFitnessTips: Cycling Science! Thanks for the reply! For watt cost savings would you recommend at most 30mls to do the job compared to the 85ml recommended amount ?
@@bxckdoor9113 is speed is critical then yes use minimal mls sealant
Waxing the chain is the only method I use for my mountain bike. This can easily keep the chain in good, working condition riding in wet, dirt, muddy conditions.
But how often do you have to re-treat?
After immersion waxing for a couple of years now, my insight; 1. It works very well. 2. The process is quick and easy once you know what you are doing.
I did some testing this winter with MSW on my trainer because I wanted to limit the grease/lube in the workout area. I didn't really get a longer drivetrain life span, I didn't get more than about a 2 weeks of durability before having to re-wax. I just didn't feel it was "worth it" and stopped doing so when I got the bike back on the road. I would only get about 600miles/1000km and it was DONE, and It would have been better to do it weekly but felt it was a hassle with limited benefit. I even tried the 2 chain rotation, so when one was on the bike the other one would be cleaned and waxed and ready to go. In the end basically only got the same mileage I always get out of a chain, about 2500 miles (in a road chain, with super limited wet or Grimey roads). I use a wet lube now, and clean the chain with a rag weekly and reapply the lube before the race. This method is so much less hassle, and I'll bet I'm not losing much W during the race.......if I'm losing W during training that is great a cheap form of resistance training I say.
Thanks for your honest feedback. Sure waxing the chain is not for everyone, and does take a bit of time AND indoors would be especially messy because bits of wax fly off the chain for the first 1k after waxing.....so I was riding mainly indoors I don't think I would be waxing either!
I did the same . Paraffin wax in a cooking pan on the stove. However
I had stiff links and the chain was was jumping on the jockey wheel
. I am wondering what I did wrong .
ah yes, if you have this problem, bend the chain a lot before you put it back on, then run the chain around 10x with the bike upside down, after this it will be loosened up
Go on then I’ll give it a try! when your old even 1 watt’s a lot!
I’ve been doing immersion waxing since reading about it in Velo News five or six years ago. I use plain old sealing wax. . . and usually do five or six chains at a time, once or twice a year. Part of the success is to make sure that the chains are absolutely clean, by using multiple progressive baths of Varsol. After all is done, I label and store the chains for my 8, 9 and 10-speed applications, and a few days later, decant the Varsol for re-use.
So organized! Impressive!!
I'm going to give it a try. I spend at least 15 minutes cleaning the black marks off my calf after most rides. Cleaning a new chain is a PITA though.
Are you using a wax heater used for cosmetics? How large is the aluminium pot inside?
Yes they work fine....pot size is about 20cm....nothing expensive needed
how long does it last for gravel riding
Should I re-wax after a wet ride.
What's the Wipperman connex chain worth over say a Durs Ace chain in watts? Are we talking 1 watt at 250w, or 400w?!
not much according to friction facts
This winter I started to look for a cleaner lube solution for indoor rides. I stumbled over MSW. The biggest pain is when you start out with a new chain, where you have to degrease it completely, but from there it is no big deal. I have 2 chain pr. bike, I ride 250-300 km and swap out the chain, this means I have to wax every for every 500-600 km. And turning on the pot and dip the chain, is not that big an effort. If the chain is dirty, just rinse it with boiling water through a sieve. One of the bonus benefits is that you don’t get a dirty drivetrain. I will never look back.
i currently use lube on my ebike and have to do an oil change every 300 miles because of how quickly it dirties. Will this allow me to go further....for refference i bike 20miles per day so basically every month i do an oil change
That's a good point re ebike chains. You need longevity over watts savings I presume.....I would say clean regularly and use a one of the better value drip waxes (or a good lube from my blog chart)
Click. Click. That was the sound of me hitting the like button, followed by the power switch of my wax slow cooker. As a recent convert to chain waxing I wish I had done this years ago. The extra watts won’t make much difference to my level of cycling, but a full chain clean and oil lube takes a lot longer and is a lot filthier than waxing. And the waxed chain still looks great after 200-300kms - one ride with even expensive dry lube is already attracting dirt.
I think the key message of this video is great: Wax you chain instead of using oil based lubes.
But I also think that this video can do more harm than good. You simply can not do the waxing in 15 minutes properly. It takes at least an hour to clean the chain from all grease. You will need 15 minutes first just to let the solvent penetrate to the grease. Then you will need at least 2 times 10 minutes of new solvent with shaking the container and you will need at least 2 x 10 minutes in denatured alcohol.
After this you have to get the chain completely dry and then submerge the chain in the hot wax for at least 10 minutes to make sure the wax can properly penetrate inside the links of the chain.
By using the 15 minute method shown in the video will result in improper degreasing, no proper penetration of wax which will end up in bad performance of the wax chain, hence a lot of disappointed riders will go back to oil.
So, please do not spread wrong methods because this will cause more harm then good.
I make my own wax with paraffin and paraffin oil (and a solvent in case of drip on that evaporates after applying). The costs are negligible. The time to prepare and apply is swift the moment you’re used to it.
How do you make sure the chain is completely dry in between all the links/pivots?
Sometimes I heat the chain to dry it completely, if I am feeling obsessional!!
I bought a small container of absoluteBLACK and put some on my speedplay pedals which are metal to metal (I use the four hole shoes which require a metal plate over the carbon sole). Just took a few drops and I let it dry overnight. I could feel the difference in pedal float with the wax. Normally I use a PTFE solution,Teflon. The slippery float was very noticeable. It will be interesting to see how long it lasts.
All the people I know who wax have rusty Cassettes? Maybe because they only lube the chain and before the oil they used went all over the drive train and protected everything. So what's the solution for rusty parts if you only wax your chain?
This is a good point I think the cassette needs a light treatment (with anything!) just to prevent rust. Anyone have any tips for this?
Spray on Car wax on the cassette (off bike of course then reinstall) and individual cogs and wipe off excess maybe ?
Waxing a chain is simply not an issue. It’s easy and MUCH better than any other lube.
Great video, lots of info, not sure mucoff is grease or wax however! ps. please enter me in competition
Nearly at the end of my 2nd bottle of squirt, will give the immersion method a go next
Whats the estimated watt saving of a waxed chain over a new factory lubed chain and over various degrees of chain wear? Say a chain with 1000k on it, 2000 or something like that?
Hi Kevin, the precise answer is in the calculator, it actually depends on your speed & rpm. fft.tips/drivetrain (look at tab #2 chain quality)
The best benefit when mountainbiking is a clean drivetrain. If you use anything sticky you will fill up your chain with dirt in no time and all gains are gone. With a totally dry lubricant you save so much time cleaning your bike its worth waxing!
what happens to the wax in the tub? Can you melt it again and use it?
Yes.
I melted some teflon into some prarfin and put it the oven for 30 minutes then boil it in linseed oil or lamp black graphite. If I use the oven it takes about half hour with kerosene gel.
Im tempted to wax but purely because i use a powertap rear hub on my wheel in trainer. As i use zwift this may provide a few more watts. Currently however my drivetrain is clean and i use squirt which i rate.
Haha I have a powertap too, don't use it much anymore, but always loved it as a training wheel because it gave power+cadence+speed on the dumb trainer. Waxing your chain for zwift watts is hilarious but hey why not!
I do a full wax, I boil the chain to get rid of the old wax, in the candle wax I add 10g of graphite, and 5g of PTFE
I always wax 3 chains at the time, so don't have to do it for at least 6 weeks, just swap them over :-)
What quick link do you use?
How do you clean the wax off a chain before re-waxing?
You don't need to for 2 reasons 1. its mostly worn off when you ready to re-wax 2. the hot max bath melts any older wax anyway...so this is one step you don't have to worry about
I think just thorough, regular cleaning pays huge benefits as well, even if you use a conventional lube. Just clean thoroughly and reapply often. But the wax is definitely interesting.
Yep. I think the reality is that most people who use conventional lubes are inclined to just add more lube and to not do a good job cleaning their chains. If that weren't true, then these chains would be just leaving mostly oily marks on hands and clothes and not really black marks. Its just easy to squirt on some lube and do a quick wipe down with a rag. Everything quickly works better, but the dirt remains where it grinds down your chain and gears.
Fred Sage
I wasn't seeking a record, but it obviously saves time to do many chains at once. Additionally, the cost of multiple chains is insignificant compared to the cost of replacing cassettes and/or chainrings. Additionally, since chain wear is drastically reduced, I'm still using the same eight chains with little wear after 30,000 miles (> .2 MM). Even if you're not interested in saving watts or having a spotless chain set, the cost saving is impressive. As an example, at the rate my chains are wearing, they'll last at least 60,000 miles. With that amount of riding using petroleum lubricants, I'd have gone through 15-20 chains, at least three cassettes and one set of chainrings. The cost of these would be many times the cost of MSP wax and Racers Edge.
I did my first hot wax with a product called hot tub and it was easy and convenient!!
Ive tried molten speed wax in a crockpot, works well
Watts per year is a second derivative. Watt is energy per unit time so watts per year is energy per second per year?