A Brief History of Epic - Codex Compliant
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- čas přidán 24. 07. 2024
- An overview of GW's forays into extremely small scale futuristic warfare.
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Working in a GW store in 97, I was given an abridged copy of the 3rd Edition rules and ONE EVENING to learn the entire thing in order to run demo games on the Sunday. Needless to say, I didn't absorb it at all and so instead ran an extremely simple and inconsistent game on the fly and filled in the gaps with narrative effects. Kids loved it, most store regulars leaned into it to make it fun for the kids. My workshy manager hadn't bothered to read the rules himself, so he had no clue.
I was friends with several store employees when I was in college and they all just made up rules on the fly for demo games of every system, including increasingly gory descriptions of the action to make the kids' mothers wince.
Hahah “workshy” never heard that term.
I’m sure he knew, but because of the good response it had, he said nothing, knowing that you got kids hooked on 40K.
3:13 True story: in my youth, I asked Santa for the Epic Space Marine boxed set for Christmas (I'm guessing 1990 ish). My parents then bought me the Space Marine Strike Force set of 15 metal miniatures instead. In fairness to them, the titles of the boxes were the same, and the cover art was the same. Oh, that confusing Mr James Workshop!
I appreciate how we're living in a timeline where "epic" means "tiny and adorable".
I know LI isn’t getting a lot of love because it’s 30k, but I’m glad to see GW modernising a classic with a (mostly) consistent scale, bases etc. They’re bringing it to a new generation of fans like me who only ever saw Epic in white dwarf as a kid and couldn’t play it the first time. I’m probably going to paint my marines as Salamanders, Titans as Legio Gryphonicus, still deciding on Knights though. I like the Coldshroud scheme but the transfer sheet for Gryphonicus comes with House Vyronii…
This actually feels really well-timed getting to come out right after the interview where one of the designers says "Epic is my favourite system that needed more love".
I played a game with Epic with a guy in our gaming group who put together several 3d printed Epic armies. I definitely agree. It has alternating activations, which instead of having turns where your opponent just moves, shoots and charges at you while you do nothing, instead you take one unit, do one action, then your opponent does the same with one of their units. This makes the game less dependent on who goes first, and several other game systems work this way, just not 40k for some reason. There is a lot more that it does really well that I just wished that either they port it over to 40k or that Epic was more popular.
@@TheDirtysouthfan I feel you, I'm like that with Inquisitor, my own "wish I could actually get the means to play this because it clicks with me" game.
@@YossarianVanDriver have you tried the 28mm version? Mostly the same rules, but much more accessible set of minis? Even more so now with the new Inquisitor Warband release.
@@AndrewMcColl I should give it a look! I don't know if it'll quite have the same "customise your RPG squad physically" charm to me, but who knows.
@@TheDirtysouthfan I still haven't played a game with my 3mm armies, but I have read the rules so I can demo games. One thing that struck out at me was how simple stats were. Weapons are either anti-personnel or anti-tank. There's very few special rules. You can model your commander with a plasma pistol or a combi weapon and it won't make any difference.
I like this focus on macro, vs. micro. Does it really matter if a tactical squad is armed with a meltagun or flamer? The squad is still going to rely on its heavy weapon to deal with armor. Do Space Marines really need special rules to differentiate them from Ork boys? Power armor, grenades, and special weapons are going to give them an advantage over flak jackets and pistols.
This was my favorite table top 40k game.
It moves so much more quickly that regular 40k and the size proportions really elevated the perception of size and distance.
Thanks for covering it!
Random reveries:- I loved shooting things that were 120cm away. Was there a two metre ranges weapon? I cant recall, however I think Devastator Companies hit on a 5+, they had a 75cm range and -1 save. Two shots each. But you had to think very hard before putting them in the cardboard skyscrapers because they were really death traps that would kill everyone inside if you hit them with a big enough weapon. It was a great game with an insane body count. White dwarf spiced things up just before 3rd edition by adding mysterious objectives where you could blow up a bunker or loot another. I think there were six different objectives but I've forgotten a few of them. I did enjoy this episode Snipe and Wib.
@@nathanwtc742 If I recall correctly, the Squat Cyclops had infinite range!
7:57
*Lamenter Landraider:* IT'S LAMENTIN' TIME
*Iddy-biddy Baby Landraider:* Yeah! Get 'em dad!
Hoping to do Imperial Fists as painting yellow with Contrast Paint seems to have gotten a lot easier.
Yeah Imperial Fists yellow is great, but it shows any imperfections in the layer below it, so make sure you have have nice and consistent white/wraith bone/ushabti bone layer first for maximum yellow-ness. Any black/grey sneaking through the layer below will appear through the imperial fists yellow as well
Imperial Fist is potted magic, it is both better than any GW yellow I have ever tried and they best contrast I have ever tried.
I have seen people paint dreadnoughts with that stuff and it came out with a great color without any splotches.
I was thinking of going for Emperor's Children because a legion of little pinky purple marines sounds delightful to me.
Seeing those old epic minis makes me really emotional, it's the only wargame I consistently played as a kid and I loved everything about it. The rules were much more fun to actually play than 40k IMO, it had alternating activations and the scale gave the game this huge sweep where artillery and close combat troops all could be properly represented. Also it was way cheaper to collect than 40k, you could make a sizeable army for under 100 dollars. Also giant robots with their own cool mech rules like locational damage!
Always super exciting when I see a new Codex Compliant episode!
I am waiting for Mordheim!
Love to see that along with Game titles being reused forever, GW is also apparently cursed by the same wizard to re-tread their game system iteration steps, as I feel like we all know that GW will eventually cave and Legions Imperialis is almost certainly going to end up having a port from 30K to 40K and add in the main factions all over again.
Its simply because its low risk. They only have the print one or two sprues that cover both sides. If it proves to be popular they can expand it. If not, it's no loss to them.
@jesterprince4949 yeah I know, it was the exact same way as old Epic lol
I'm waiting for Gorkamorka to come back fully then
@@jesterprince4949that is objectively wrong, as it would have been just as easy to do the same thing with 40k space marines
lmao you and me both@@aaronbasham6554
So glad to see Snipe's healing up from her illness after giving it a thorough shitkicking! Please give it another good solid kick in the dick from us too! All the best to you both!
Can we all agree that any game with Jervis Johnson's name on the front is both fun to play and stands the test of time incredibly well. Space Marine (2nd ed) and Blood Bowl were my 90s jam. Wish I still had my imperator titan!😢
Epic in all of its incarnations has been one of my favorite scales/systems that GW has ever produced.
One of my many regrets is leaving behind a barely touched box of Titan Legions during a house move.
I had the original version of Space Marine. I had an Ork army and my brother had Imperial Guard. Good times blasting the hell out of each other with tank armies
Omg!! That Final Liberation music in the outro!!!! So many FEEELS!! =D =D =D
40k first captured my youthful imagination in the early 90s when I discovered D&D and the wild world of tabletop gaming, but due to adolescent budgets and not having easy access to a community, the first time I actually got to *play* a 40k game was when Final Liberation came out. So your choice of outro music hit me right in the feeeels! XD Love you guys! So glad your health has stabilized and the world still has you with us!!
I always felt that Epic had the edge when it came to *spectacle.* The larger minis might have more details, but the scale that an Epic game takes place on makes it feel like an amazing bit of cover art of two armies grinding against each other. The other game felt like a sequence of small skirmishes by comparison.
Ive made a decision to leave more comment's on videos and to tell youtube folk how much i love their stuff. Im enough of an old fart to remember adeptus titanicus being released but seeing people still discovering all this stuff years later is so funny. Great video and keep it up. I look forward to every vid.😊
I very much appreciate the allusion to Final Liberation in the outro, I played the hell out of that game back in the day! It's still available on GOG for a fiver and is regularly on sale
I'm a simple man. I see Codex Compliant, I click like.
New Snipe and Wib, day just got better
first edition Adeptus Mechanicus and space marine are probably my favourite GW games
Nice video :) I'm really excited for Legiones Imperialis. If the history would to repeat itself I can look forward to new Epic scale tyranids within a decade :D
Ah my two favorite youtubers talking about my favorite childhood game....
Also love the outro song brings me right back to hours spent playing "final liberation".
love the final liberation music on credits, many happy memories of that game! and the "live" action cut scenes.
quite fitting music for this video :D
@@krisisk1 agreed!
I will forever adore the scene of *COMMISSAR* Holt, back-handing the Planetary governor, like he owed *COMMISSAR* Holt money and then proceeds to point a Laspistol in his face and tell him to choose his next words with exceptional care
@@weldonwin oh yes currently watching the cut scenes on yt now. The music got me all sentimental
@@pacman1386 I like to imagine that the Governor didn't choose his words with enough care, so *COMMISSAR* Holt shoots him right in his stupid face, pitches his worthless carcass off the balcony and proceeds to take the Governor's wife in a Manly Fashion
Wargaming's most glamorous power couple!
Very happy to see you both looking well.
Epic 40k is what 40k should have always been, you can't talk about apocalyptic scale battles and then have maybe 50 models on either side of a table
Your wish has been granted with a monkey's paw so now in 10th. you just play Epic 40k in 35mm scale.
Epic second edition was my first real GW game. I was far too young to understand how to play it, or even build it. Glueing together metal land raiders with plastic glue, copydex and PVA and wondering why they kept falling apart is a particular memory
Brother Sergeant Antonius Montanus had a long career as a box cover space marine
Randomly came across this vid, loved it! I always enjoyed 1st & 2nd ed epic and this brought it all back. Also, having Final Liberation music on the outro was masterful! Loved that game too.
Epic can be a minefield of editions, half editions, fan editions, communities, base restrictions, minis per base, scales and sizes, companies and force lists, but this was an excellent overview and handled really well. I hope for more in depth videos on some of the previous editions in the future. Not only did the Horus Heresy first really become a core feature of the lore as a result of Adeptus Titanicus - since GW didnt have the funds to tool two different designs of titan in the first box - but many units were created for the specific scale of Epic, where air power and War Engines were real parts of every force and needed to be considered and countered. People dont really realise how much of an impact Epic has had on core 40K.
Lol. The 28mm space marine with the epic ones looks like he’s playing 40k. ❤
Great video, thanks for the nostalgia boost!
The first edition of Space Marine was my entry into Warhammer. I got it shortly after it came out but by that point the Adeptus Titanicus box had already sold out so I wasn't able to add Titans to my game until the 2nd edition came out. And while 2nd edition did a lot of sensible things (such as streamlining the rules and vastly streamlining army creation compared to the mess of army lists 1st edition had in White Dwarf) I remember being a bit disappointed by how much flavour was lost from the infantry units in particular. Terminators in particular seemed very underwhelming with their 6+ save...
I am currently undecided about whether I'll be getting Legions Imperialis. If I do then I may paint up my marines as Salamanders, as they were my army for 1st and 2nd edition Space Marine. However I'm struggling to feel inspired by any of the canon legions so I may dust off my dubious claims about the mighty Tange Marines being the lesser-known XXII legion, allowing me to field tiny hordes of bright orange space marines. 🙂
Yees, another CC, and with delicious retro pictures of tiny, colourful toy soldiers! The colour photographs were always one of my favourite aspect of these older books and magazines, and I am delighted by the amount of them you put in the video.
Surprised you didn't mention that the first edition of what we would come to call Epic was also the first *mention* of the Horus Heresy! Because it would have been silly to make completely different models for the two sides for a small new project, an in-universe reason was created for why the same-lookin dudes were fighting each other. And that reason was, of course, civil war!
So yeah, the money-printing 30k game that spawned 100 novels all started off as a single line old GW made to explain to kids why your little model robots looked the same on both sides. And if that isn't just a perfect encapsulation of GW then I don't know what is.
Arbitor Ian mentioned that in his video about how the lore for the Heresy has evolved between different editions of WH40K and its spinoff
More of this please. little battles are very enjoyable and hearing you talk about them is class.
Another great codex compliant episode! Space Marine is where I got into the hobby, so this video really hit hard. Thanks for such a great trip down memory lane
I can't shake the feeling the lack of staying power might have had at least a little to do with all the different naming schemes. Customers didn't know which game it was.
Alternatively, the models were so tiny, customers had a problem accidentally inhaling them while painting or looking at them. Who knows?
Now I think about, that space marine box artwork is spot on: “Say hello to my (extremely) little friend!”
“We thought it would be instructive for both YOU and US”. I can’t explain why I found that line properly hilarious. It gave me the giggles and I nearly fell out of bed.
Before I even watch this video, let me say this is what I’ve been hoping for, and I genuinely and shamelessly fist pumped the air when I saw the title!
I was watching this video while preparing French toast, when my roomate, who was on the couch, told me that your voices were so relaxing that he almost fell alseep. Unintentional ASMR ?
I was a kid, but the original Space Marine was mint! Tank battles in a city, hoping your barrage would come in.
Space Marine was my introduction to Games Workshop and Warhammer over 30 years ago. A neck beard game shop owner convinced my out of touch mom to buy the most expensive box in the shop around Christmas time knowing nothing about it. Neither did I, it was an amazing gift and I have never looked back.
always wanted to play orks epic, the gargants were amazing. Love your use of space crusade music at the beginning.
A great summary of my childhood wargaming. Also the outro music *chef's kiss*
I'm forced to paint them as Raven Guard since they're all beakies. I don't truck with GW's 'actually Mk VI was the most common type' retcon. Hopefully they release other Mks soon so I can paint up other legions.
Those 3mm orks are the cutest gd thing I've seen all day
Off topic, but I'm so amazed seeing Snipe's hair regrowing so quickly❤
Space Marine was my entry to GW, so I'll definitely be in for the new boxset.
Looking likely I'll also be doing Sons of Horus 👁
Love the fact you used the music from the Epic PC game at the end of the vod. Oh wow! That has brought some memories back.
Think I'll dig out my old armies just to see how bad I was at painting 😄
That was fascinating. It was nice to get the context for Epic that was mentioned in other videos
Ahhh the intro got me in the feels, as an actual smaller then average warlord titan amongst mere mortals (for the most part) being at 6'9" in height, this made me chuckle.
Just want to acknowledge the outro music there. Hats off, beautifully done. 😂
My biggest memory related to Epic is an indirect one, it was when I spent a night at my brother's apartment in Turku as everyone else was going elsewhere, I don't recall the details. Had food bought for me, including Mcnuggets and watched tv mostly, one documentary about the Challenger shuttle or some space exploration stuffs. And having Issue 211 of White Dwarf that had much coverage on Epic 40 000 with a battle report involvin' the Imperial Fists and Orks, as well as showcasing other models too, includin' that nostalgic boxy Warlord Titan :)
Glad to see you too looking so good!
Please don't give me hope that Epic as I knew it back in the first edition may be coming back!!!! The nostalgia alone will send me high!!!! My first game I bought from GW some 39 years ago, I think, Great video. Subbed.👍👍
When I was a teen, Epic was one of those games I was aware of existed, but never really looked into.
At the time I thought it looked a bit silly, but over time I've come to appreciate the bird's eye view, and the sheer scale of the armies you can field.
It absolutely still looks a bit silly, but that's part of the charm.
Excellent video as always, hope to see more soon!
(but not too soon, you know, keep a sane pace)
2:00
I love the potential for visual storytelling here:
_“A sons of horus mechanized patrol, squad malefex, and their rhino, sabre of Jove, lost in the insanity of some great war, thrown forward in time, stumbles upon the dilapidated remains of one of humanity’s great relics. Unbeknownst to them, here, some 10,000 years ago, the treacherous warlord titan “Hellbringer” was felled by its sister-machine “Sola Dominio” in a desperate battle to reclaim the sector._
_The marines pondered at the looming form of the God-machine’s remains… only it’s thunderstrike gauntlet and massive death-mask laying cold upon the shattered ground… with only morbid speculations as to what it was doing here.”_
The effort put forth making this video is so appreciated. I enjoy these videos, and you both make me laugh a good few times as I sit here polishing some dice for a friend.
I was going to make my Epic Imperialis Death Guard, as my 30k is Death Guard. But I'm leaning towards Thousand Sons or Alpha Legion. We'll see. Thanks for a fun video! ❤️👍
Cool video! I also really enjoy how the title incidentally channels some late-00s/early 10s internet vibes.
Got to say, that Jim Burns painting of the blonde spacemarines in the dark green armour is probably my favourite 40K painting.
great video as always
Gotta love tiny lads, good vibes. Excellent video
And you even dug up the Final Liberation music. Awesome! "Alright, humie, let's see where you was goin."
At 6:29 I've always felt like that Gargant's looking at the walking death in front of it, then turning to the boyz and saying "'elp?"
Another very pleasant trawl through systems I'd only ever seen (with the exception of a brief dalliance with 3rd) in White Dwarf. Thank you for the video.
Epic was always my favourite GW wargame. Started with 1st Ed Space Marine then moved to 2nd Ed after a bit of a gripe at the new army lists. Soon came to appreciate them. I loved the idea of bringing whole companies of tanks, troops and bikes to battle. More sense than 40k and easier rules as well.
We didn't move to 3rd Edition. I subsequently heard Andy Chambers say the ruleset was what he was most proud of, and the mechanic of pinning formations down with blast markers looks interesting in retrospect. However, at the time we had just collected a fantastic 10k points Chaos Army with loads of Daemon Primarchs and war engines (plus an equally-sized and varied Ork host). A cursory look at the rules in GW when they were showing off the box showed only a fraction of it would now be playable. I got hacked off with the two fingers at my investment and didn't bother getting it. I wonder if others had similar experiences and if this was a reason that edition failed?
1st edition Space Marine was the first GW product I ever got when I was a kid. Loved it.
I'm thinking of going Ultramarines, supported by House Terryn and Legio Astorum for a unified blue-dominant primary colour aesthetic.
Legio Praesagius is also a good match for Ultramarines, with their blue, white, and gold color scheme. They're also basically the Ultramarines' pet titan legion, because of course the 13th get their own titan legion.
I still have my Titan Legions (2nd Ed) box with the Imperator Titan. Haven’t played Epic in probably 25+ years, but I always loved it.
Love the use of the Final Liberation music at the end!
Good work: there is a recent trend of videos about Epic but only you guys and the others on another channel seem to know about Epic. Its really good to have you around.
To add:
- About the several ATs: there is even more of that, as there is AT3 rules, from around 2005, so AT2018 is more like the fourth or fifth Titan game.
- Oh, and Epic40k rulebooks also said that using the 20x20mm stands was fine, not only EA's.
- By the way, the full 80 feet tall statement about the Epic version of Battle Titans, was from 40 to 80, which appears on the AT book already.
- EA not being good at big games is an old half myth and only applied for tournaments, but other editions aren't played with more than EA's, save for third one.
Epic is the most epic version of 40k.
Thanks sooo much for this video... I absolutely adore the 2nd edition of this game. In fact, back then I bought... most of it... and by now have painted maybe half my models. I still have regular opponents who love it as much as I, so I get to play a fair bit too.
Most recently I painted up my Knight Lancer host and the Centurio Ordinatus Mars (wooooh). Sorry, that is shameless showing off.
Codex Compliant is my happy place
nice touch with the final liberation ost outro.
3rd edition Epic 40K was the bomb. I played that all the time as a kid. Pity it was discontinued. I still have it up on my shelf next to me now.
Hell yeah, love the Final Liberation music drop at the end!
Fantastic video
Good lord, those tiny fellas must be an absolute nightmare to paint!
I met someone in the 90s who hand-painted his space marines in Epic by hand.. down to the eyes.
Re the bike's bases: same debate for the 40K scale versions. Since I started in 4th edition, I have had versions of the Firstborn kit both without bases, as well as with 50x25mm rectangles, "capsule" bases which were the same but with round ends, and the kits in the first 40K partwork subscription had oval bases.
Attack bikes have also historically been offered with square or round bases of multiple styles as well as without.
Another excellent video
Totally late but I am happy you are back on track, as my mum went to the same shit as you at almost the same time!
The starting jubgle always makes my day... Also were I called big boned right at the start? I can live with that!
A true epic video game is what I've been wanting for years. Like above total war levels of scale, true epic scale.
6:35 This is mostly extrapolation on my part, but I've estimated the current 40k scale to be *28.8mm.* This assumes a 40mm Primaris Marine represents a height of 2.5m in true scale, with 28.8mm proportionally representing a 6' man.
Modern Adeptus Titanicus (and by extension Legionis Imperialis) is said to be 25% of this scale, and, taking a few measurements from the Civitas Imperialis terrain, I'm inclined to agree, as one tile consistently measured out to ~28.8mm across.
Therefore, I believe the modern Epic scale is *7.2mm.*
Hypothetically speaking, a Firstborn in this scale should be in the ballpark of ~10mm, though I don't expect this will be the case.
In any case, what makes these scales great is that it's easy to covert from true scale to either scale: Multiply the length in meters by 16 to get the 40k result in millimeters, or by 4 to get the Epic result in millimeters.
Woo new Snipe and Wib! Good video!
I'm glad you repeated the names for various different editions just to appease the wizard; you've saved us all!
Gotta tell you a secret...
...you are my favorite channel. Don't tell the others I don't want them to get mad.
My brother and I had a copy of Titan Legions. Interestingly there was a wfb version called Warmaster too. In White Dwarf someone had written in saying that his son had called Warmaster Warhamster, much hilarity ensued.
I have a signed copy of Epic Armageddon. It was signed by all the studio staff who worked there in about 2005.
Never played it as no one i knew played it, though it looked fun.
I play 1st edition adeptus titanicus , its alot of fun.I Love the original beetleback ,reaver and warhound titans (i have around 25 in total). There were loads of metal weapon/head options to customise them and all mine are magentised so you you can swap loadouts or remove destroyed weapons when playing campaigns . Great video .
Who doesn’t love a bit of codex compliment 😁
Fun as always!
I've never played Epic, but I really like the look of the little blast markers when I've seen pictures in White Dwarf or whatever, makes it look like little freeze frames of action
I needed this