Glory (1989) | First Time Watching | Movie Reaction
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- čas přidán 3. 08. 2024
- This week we're watching another movie that was always on my list of movies to watch but never got to. It's definitely one that we're both glad to have finally seen!
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00:00 Intro
01:07 Reaction
22:59 Review - Zábava
Shaw's family were unhappy with the 54th Massachusetts monument when it was first unveiled because they thought it focused too much on Shaw and not the Regiment as a whole. Also, when someone asked the family if they would like an effort to be made to retrieve Robert Shaw's body from the battlefield, so it could returned to the family for a proper burial Shaw's father said “We would not have his body removed from where it lies surrounded by his brave and devoted soldiers....We can imagine no holier place than that in which he lies, among his brave and devoted followers, nor wish for him better company - what a bodyguard he has!”
Robert Goul Shaw deserved a whole monument just for himself.
@@jackprescott9652
Yup.
So does Elvis.
@@possumslim5542 Elvis doesn' t have a monument? Shocking.
It’s the combat of the time. Those are single shot rifles. They can’t shoot back much. If they stopped to shoot they would be stationary targets and take heavier casualties. When Colonel Shaw charged up the hill he was trying to motivate his men.
Unfortunately those rifled muskets could accurately hit a man at 500 yards plus and required the user to stand to reload most effectively. And everyone has to be close so they can hear orders and stay coordinated. A bad combination before the next weapons evolution.
No. Even a modern assault rifle wont reliably hit a man at 500 yards, unless he's standing still and waving his arms asking to be shot. Effective range in combat for an average infantryman is a couple of hundred metres, tops. That goes double for the rifled muskets of the US civil war. Also, the manual of arms on those rifled muskets includes reloading while kneeling and reloading while prone.
They didn't do proper training in aiming them but civil war riffles within their range are much more accurate been their modern counterparts. This is due to the miniball and deeper riffleing, giveing a better spin. Some sharpshooters can hit a quarter at 1000 yards with a civil war springfield. Modern guns can go farther with greater presure but often take a hundred yards to stabilize. The mini expanded into the grooves and had more spin than guns made today. Modern guns gave up some for full metal jackets and faster loading.
@@charlesmaurer6214 Everything you wrote is total nonsense. Please stop spreading misinformation about guns and their capabilities. You either need to do a LOT of research or get some actual experience before commenting. Sincerely,
An actual long range shooter,competitor, and collector.
@@kmill5009he's spouting hogwash.
Also I really feel this couple did not grasp the tactical situation of the final siege. Asking why someone wouldn't stand up when they are being fired is kind of a ridiculous question. The answer is they don't want to be shot.
He said Give em hell 54
One actual 54th Mass soldier who was NOT portrayed in the film was William H. Carney. In the actual battle, he was the one who picked up the flag and helped lead the assault. Like Denzel Washington's Tripp, he was shot multiple times. Unlike Tripp, Carney survived the battle despite being shot several times. When the 54th grudgingly withdrew, he followed behind them, despite his wounds and refusing help from white Union soldiers. He made it all the way back to the 54th's bivouac on his own, saying "The old flag never touched the ground" before collapsing from blood loss. He was promoted to sergeant, survived the war and became the first Black American soldier to receive the Medal of Honor...although not until 1900.
Thank you so much for that information. That story is amazing and I wish I would have heard it before. I understand why it was left out of the movie (dramatic effect giving the impression they were all killed) - but, I wish they were able to add that detail.
But, that made me interested enough to look up the information. Yeah, his actions were the first Medal of Honor actions - but, the delay in awarding him the medal meant other Black soldiers got it before him - even though their own actions happened afterwards.
Thank you very much for your comment, sir. It really made my day.
RIP Andre Braugher.
"I'll see you in the fort, Thomas."
As a black woman who served in the Army and comes from a military family, this movie has always hit me in the feels. 😥😭
Thank you for your service. I wish more people, black and white would watch this film. Slavery no matter where in the world is horrible. People forget that thousands of white soldiers died, as Morgan Freeman said. I always get teary eyed at Trip grabbing the flag
Im not american but I love watching black americans reacting to this movie, because of how emotional it is - quite rightly - for black americans.
Thank u for your service!!!!!!! Glory is and will always have a special place in my heart
There is an old Victorian cemetery in a Ohio River town. During the Civil War there was a large Union Army hospital where the wounded and sick from the battlefields were taken. After the war the patients who didn't make it, were exhumed and taken to the old Pine Street graveyard. To this day there are over 200 graves of white and black Union soldiers, together forever kept in a revered plot. Over half are marked "UNKNOWN - US SOLDIER" Whenever I'm in the area, I stop and pay my respects.
as a fellow vet, thank you. and you should be proud of what these men accomplished.
Any soldier who deserted was subjected to death / firing squad ( Morgan Freeman says to Denzel he's gonna get himself shot), whipping was a punishment to Any soldier deserting.
If you stop to shoot...you're a stationary target
Yeah I don't think they really grasped the mechanics of the assault.
@@Roddy556Did you see the tactic used in the first scene from Antietam? Those were the tactics of the day and the weapons were different.
@@MrHello-nx4xs I meant the reactors screaming at the screen not the soldiers/actors on screen.
regarding not shooting back, because of the length of time it takes to load a musket, the standard system for attacking forces at the time was to close the ground as fast as possible, let off one volley, then charge with the bayonet before the defending force recovers from the volley. But what that meant is that the attacking forces had to accept casualties while closing with the defenders. For what its worth these tactics were still the dominant tactic until about 1915 when the machine gun made such tactics totally obsolete (but note that allied forces were using these tactics right up to 1916 and US forces still used them in 1918 - with fairly disastrous results). Many of the most disturbing attacks of 1914-1916 were carried out with rifles that were unloaded.
ps the Union attacks on the forts along the rebel coast lines were almost always total fiascos that resulted in defeats and huge casualties. Those attacks were close to suicidal and the attacks on Ft wagner were no different. Shaw knew that when he volunteered the 54th for the lead force
also, its not quite correct that 'ft wagner was never taken". in fact it was abandoned a couple of months after it was attacked, because the union commanders had realised it could not be frontally assaulted and simply bombed the cr@p out of it from the sea.
Military commanders were very deeply enamored of the whole "one bullet, one corpse" concept, the image of their soldiers nobly standing their ground while reloading, or later while working the bolt to chamber a new round, and then carefully taking aim and firing, thus eliminating an enemy. When semiautomatic and fully automatic infantry weapons were developed, that could fire a number of rounds with no need to stop and minister to the weapon and its ammo, quite a few commanders were very hesitant to accept them.
Union General Butler, who ran New Orleans for a while, took millions of dollars' worth of items during the war. He had his civilian brother who was with him helping to steal this money. There will always be people like that.
Matthew Brodderick happens to look a lot like the real Col. Shaw.
One of my all time favorites. The Mrs better get an extra large box of tissues
Good grief with the "why don't they shoot?!" Those are muskets, not automatic rifles. They have all been fired already. They either hunker down for twenty seconds to reload or keep running forward with the rest. On the other side, the defense, is stationary and reloading.
That makes perfect since but while watching the movie it was so frustrating. Wishing they had better equipment than the others and they could load faster. - Toni 🤓
At Ft. Wagner, when advancing up a grade, it is nearly fruitless to shoot, as the enemy is firing over the lip at the top and exposing very little at which to shoot. Also, with the weapons they had it would be very difficult to reload under fire and the advance would stop while they did. The goal was to reach the top as quickly as possible so as to overwhelm defenses.
Couple things...
In close quarters combat, the bayonet equipped musket was better as a hitting and stabbing weapon than trying to reload and fire.
The Confederacy thought that burying Colonel Shaw in a mass grave along with his soldiers would be taken as an insult to the Union. When Shaw's father was asked if he wanted his body exhumed and returned to Boston, he replied that he couldn't have picked a better resting place for his son than with the brave men he served with.
The Bronze statue shown at the beginning of the End Credits scene is a real statue, and stands in the Boston Common.
They were rifles not muskets.
@@jcarlovitch They were "rifled muskets."
@@eXcommunicate1979 There is no such thing. It is one or the other. Rifle has a grooved barrel and a musket has no grooved barrel.
Hi Toni and David, great review. Glory, along with Gettysburg are probably the two best civil war, war movies made. I am a historian and a reenactor, so I did want to give you a bit more insight into questions you both alluded to in the reaction. On the flogging of Tripp (Danzel Washington) all soldiers who were caught leaving were punished, with flogging being the lowest level of punishment and it would happen to anyone regardless of race. Actually, if you deserted from the field of battle you could have been shot or some were branded with a hot poke that branded a C for coward and then drummed out of the army.
On the battle tactics, this was still a time of Napoleonic linear battle tactics. So you were to March steadily up to the opposing army until about 30 to 50 yards before you should shoot. The problem was the minie ball, which was basically the first bullet was introduced just a few years earlier, so no armies had ever fought with this more accurate bullet until the civil war. A year later the tactics were changing to forward in rushes format.
The final battle part of that was done for cinematic effect. When the 54th started the attack it was night time. Col. Shaw made it up to the top of the rampart when he was shot. They really couldn't shoot the confederates from the ditches as the bullets would have hit the sand, none of the confederates were standing on top of the ramparts, only looking over the top of the fort to shoot at the union soldiers. That is why they never shot back, the only chance they really had was to get over the part and then shoot or bayonet the enemy once inside the fort. This, the causalities were very high and it was more of a forlorn hope, an attack that the first in would likely die. Most of Shaw's writings seem to suggest that he was prepared to do this if needed, he truly was an abolishionist as were all of the white officers in the 54th. When they decided not to take pay, which wasn't rectified to the $13 until 1864 after this battle, all of the officers were in without question.
Finally, its funny that you both were taken with Broderick as Bueler. He actually was in Wargames which was a drama before Bueler, so it wasn't as hard to see him in a dramatic role. The funny part is that Tom Hanks was a comedian actor long before Philadelphia and Forest Gump, with a lot of people never mentioning they had a hard time seeing him in dramas.
Looking forward to more. In the civil war genre you might want to watch Conspirator, Lincoln, I would love to see a review of Gettysburg but that might be too much outside your comfort, not bloody but it is a detailed 3.5 hour movie on the battle.
Thank you so much for clearing up some of my questions and giving us some insight. I've never seen Wargames and didn't know he came out in that so that's probably why I only associate him with Ferris Bueller. You are completely right, I don't seem to not take Tom Hanks seriously. That is a very good point. I will add the other movies to our list because they do sound very interesting and I have not seen any of them. - Toni 🤓
@@popculturallychallenged Yeah, it's important to realize there is millenia of warfare before the 20th Century, and the existence of 20th century weapons really changes strategy and tactics. This is the 19th century, you mass your men and march, it was still considered the best way to break enemy lines and win a position with your infantry. Civil War generals weren't stupid - there was simply no better way with the weapons they had to try to win battles.
I'm related as well but because you mentioned Tom Hanks, though he failed to play him, we are related to Abe Lincoln. Lincoln's mom was a Hanks and Tom would have been a great Abe if he done it before turning grey.
@@popculturallychallengedHi Toni, the gentleman mentioned a very interesting film called The Conspirator, the true story about the assassination of President Lincoln and the trial of the people who carried out the plot with John Wilkes Booth, specifically Mary Surratt, who owned the boarding house Booth and his co-conspirators used to plan what was supposed to be a triple assassination of the president, the vice president, and the secretary of state, except only Booth succeeded. Mary Surratt was the first woman executed by the United States for her role in the Lincoln assassination. Very fascinating movie. Cheers!
History Fact: The Civil war was quite a bloody one, in large part because weapons technology had greatly advanced since the Revolutionary War, but the battle tactics didnt.
Key example is the big line formations. During the Revolutionary War, muskets made at that time were VERY inaccurate (despite what Hollywood portrays) and so the reason you lined up like that was to increase the chances of hitting the enemy and decrease the chances they hit you.
But during the Civil War, many muskets were rifled (spiraling barrels that increase accuracy, stability and range) this cause the line formations to take enormous casualties at mich greater ranges then before. Also artillery changed a lot, while old style cannon ball guns were still used, there were break throughs in rifled field gun artillery that was so accurate you could consistently hit targets from miles away.
Yall should watch the movie "Gettysburg" and "Heroes and Generals"....they are probably 2 of tue best Civil War movies ever made.
Gettysburg is indeed a very good movie. Gods and Generals, though made by the same production company, is not even remotely as good, pandering to ridiculous Lost Cause mythology that seeks to mitigate the fundamental awfulness at the very root of the Confederate slave state.
"GIVE;EM HELL 54TH !!!" Was the movies acclaimed tear-jerker moment. The only reason your wife, who is always crying, didn't .....Was because she did not understand what he said.
Yep
The Civil War definitely deserves its own "Band of Brothers" miniseries treatment. And they should invite this cast to be a part of it.
I would agree with that. - Toni 🤓
Fr
I grew up in Massachusetts...so I learned the story of the 54th from a young age. I went to visit the Robert Gould Shaw Memorial maqny a time....that is what is pictured at 22:56 in the background.
Thank you for reacting to this excellent film.
And yes...flogging was the punishment for desertion for white soldiers too.
The 54th memorial in the out credits is on the Boston Common. It is huge and when I was standing in front of it I was very impressed.
I consider myself a war history nerd. To help answer your questions about this war movie. At this time, line battles were the one of the best ways to keep your men organized and together. The rifles back then had an affective range of 50 to 75 yards. As said in the movie a good soldier can shoot 3 shoots a min. When attacking a fort the defenders have mostly the advantage of the high ground and protection. It its recommended if you are to attack and take a fort, you will need 2 to 3 times the estimated number of defenders.
Thank you so very much for the insight. That makes more sense as we read more comments. - Toni 🤓
Smoothbore musquets (obsolete in the 1860s) had a range of ~100m. Rifled musquets - like the enfield pattern, fired a minie ball to at least 400+m and with better accuracy... when visibility allowed. Black powder (50% solid residue and smoke) and field boundaries and vegetation can limit observed fire ranges substantially.
The slow reloading of a muzzle loader tends to hamper rapid assaults of position, so you have choices - stall the attack by halting to load and fire, and then pin yourself by engaging in fires. Fire once at longer range then advance with the unloaded rifle to use bayonet, advance, fire immediately prior to closing with a massed bayonet charge (and accept that some casualties will occur on the way in, and you may lose control if troops become engaged in a fire fight... or close under supporting fire from shrapnel and shell (and musquetry from supports) - charge home, and then commence the musketry battle from the objective.
Repeating breechloading metal cartridge rifles later made the process of assaulting, firing during the assault and remaining effective once on the position much easier to accomplish with Elan.... but also it was much easier for modern rifles and Gatling guns to deny free movement. The ACW was a period of rapid evolution and revolution in military arms and tactics, and this was after some evolution of weapons and before the corresponding improvement in tactical means - and the weapons of this Regiment lie toward the ... obsolescent, rather than pinnacle of modernity.
If you search on the Library of Congress there is a two volume set of "American Kriegspiel" - which has nomographs and rules for an umpired wargame of combat of the ACW era, (which is a derivation of the 1824 Kriegspiel) - and which highlights some of the soft-factors which govern the expected development of the fight in the infantry, artillery and cavalry fight... with skirmishing usefully reducing casualties taken, but dramatically reducing the ability to apply force, and extremely vulnerable to close action from formed infantry or (especially) cavalry.
Linear combat with trenches, and using natural walls, fences and ditches was still necessary for command and control, and to minimise the extreme casualties which were seen in close formation open field combat. But to 'win' a position some movement to contact was needed, and was a difficult task. Moving reduces firepower that can be delivered, and firing reduces the ability to sustain the planned movement.
Despite your frustrations at the battle tactics I applaud that you loved the movie. Since the Revolutionary War, guns were inaccurate, especially at long ranges. Men were lined up shoulder to shoulder, shooting together in a ‘shotgun’ effect. It took dozens of men shooting as one to score one hit. You increase the chances of scoring more hits if you can get closer. Men had to form up in tight formations under heavy fire and advance. Casualties were horrendous. This was the only way to keep the men together as a military unit and not descend into an undisciplined mob. Suicidal and took great courage. The only way to survive was to keep moving forward. Flag bearers kept the men together. Men looked to the flags to stay together. Flag bearers were always targeted and killed. Men would drop their rifles to pick up the flags when they were killed, and carry on until they too were killed. In Glory you had one regiment the 54th with about 800 men. At the Battle of Gettysburg dozens of regiments were placed together. Over 15,000 men advanced under murderous fire from all sides. When they were hit, when thousands fell at the same time, a collective ‘death moan’ echoed across the battlefield. In the final battle in Glory, the 54th at the base of the fort was close to breaking. Robert Gould Shaw charged up that hill with the flag bearer in a desperate attempt to rally the men forward. With his life he gave his final command. Take the fort.
Denzel won his first Oscar for this
“Shoot! Shoot! Why don’t they shoot?!” Omg guys, really? You realize they only have one shot, and it takes them a while to reload. And when they’re all in the heat of battle, they don’t always have a shot ready.
Yes, we just got a little frustrated..... We understand the process now. - Toni 🤓
I love you guys and your connection , I’ve been waiting for this ever.. something emotional
Thank you for watching with us. We appreciate you so much. - Toni 🤓
If you shoot your musket from afar while charging with little chance of hitting anything, you can't reload while running forward, so it's best to wait until you can hit something and be stationery to reload.
That does make perfect sense. Thank you for helping us understand. - Toni 🤓
The flag bearer stays with the commanding officer. It was the only way to know where your commander was on a chaotic battlefield.
That makes sense. Thank you for the insight and helping me understand. - Toni 🤓
Great movie and just a few teardrops from Toni, I call this reaction a success. Here's to my favorite reactor couple 🍻
You are too sweet. Thank you so much for your kind words! - Toni 🥰
Despite guerilla warfare learned by native peoples in the Revolutionary War, our Army never adopted more effective tactics until much later in our history. The line warfare was learned from the Europeans and was adopted by us. Soldiers were considered "cannon fodder", used by sending into the enemy by mass.
When you watch a movie like this, Watch it with a Veteran. A Veteran will be able to give you important insight regarding Military Training. And why the tactics of the time seem so foolish now but were the best tactics available on the outset of The War you are watching. First off, The Ugly words. All soldiers are trained by cadre who use ugly words. They are preparing hundreds of men for the task of killing other men. Ugly words is the mildest part of their conditioning. about 1% of all Americans have served in her Armed Services. They are the Protector Class. I'm an Army Vet. Americans sleep safely at night because they are protected by men who are willing to do violent things to keep Americans safe. Ugly language is only the beginning. These men not only must be trained to kill other men but they must be trained to do it better than the enemy is trained to kill them. B) the tactics at the beginning of every war have already been out paces by the technology of the weapons that are new on the battle field.. The tactics of marching in large blocks of men straight ahead were Napoleonic Tactics from the early 1800s The weapons were state of the art, circa 1860. It seemed stupid nut it was all they knew. By the end of the war both sides were digging trenches and fighting the way soldiers would fight in World War I, 40 years later. World war I would see new weapons as well, The first tanks and the first Air Planes. And so it goes. Captain Shaw was grazed by a musket ball at his neck and then knocked out from an artillery Percussion. You thought he just fainted because you were not on the battle field. But you did see the head of the soldier in front of him explode from an artillery shell, probably a six pounder. There is a re-enactment company that represents the 54th Massachusetts Volunteer infantry. They have a website. You should look them up. That payroll protest was real. The 54th Massachusetts wen without pay and discharged their duties as soldiers until mid 1864 at which time the U.S. Congress passed a resolution granting them the full $13 dollars a month with full back pay and benefits paid to the wives and families of their fallen.
I loved this movie. I hope you know its a true event. The 54th Massachusetts is famous. They even had a Medal of Honor recipient, SGT William Carney; He was not depicted in this movie.
The violence seen in this movie was a cake walk compared to what happened in the 4 years of the Civil War in many locations. This movie always brings the tears.
Matthew Broderick (COL Shaw) just recently found out he had a relative that fought in the Civil War.
Please do at least one of the next two movies about the Civil War: Gettysburg (1993) and/or Gods & Generals (2003).
Another unit you can read about is the black unit who fought in the Battle of Nashville in 1864. You will be proud.
Joining the military was a love/hate situation. I am a combat veteran and got out of the military in 2013....and I actually miss it. I miss the community and it was just a different type of family.
As for the way they fought - it really was just the only way they understood how at the time. Muskets (smoothbore muskets) were not terribly accurate weapons, but there was an improvement in capability with the creation of the "Minie ball". It looked more like a modern bullet rather than a sphere and was used in rifled muskets rather than smooth-bore. It was more devastating than smoothbore musket balls because it would penetrate all the way through a body instead of lodging in it, and it shattered bones more easily meaning greater damage to arms and legs, so higher casualty counts.
Masses of ranks of fire was still what they used for tactics rather than modern ideas of fire-and-maneuver. Also, artillery had improved and had greater effects. In short, they HAD to get really close for good effects from massed musket fire (or thought they did). They'd march and maneuver shoulder-to-shoulder to maintain close formations to concentrate their fire - but the moment they stop to aim and fire, they are vulnerable. Remember that Shaw tells the men that a good soldier can fire 3 aimed shots in a minute - but that means that they are STANDING STILL for all that time, dumping gunpowder in the gun, putting in the minie ball, and using the ramrod to pack it all in tightly. The bayonet for the musket was VITALLY important simply because the guns took so long to load, and we see that in the training in the movie - it's more than just being an accurate and FAST shot, but being able to counter an attack from a bayonet.
So, they still thought it's better tactics to accept the casualties as you march up without breaking formations and then once you're REALLY close, your remaining troops are more effective - firing once or twice and then charging to close the remaining distance fast and engaging hand-to-hand. It DID work, because enemy formations could still be destroyed or made to flee, but, again, the casualties were severe. The enemy that they would be approaching will try to form up behind cover and likely stay protected while they are stationary by rock walls, fences, logs, or even bodies of the dead. They won't just give up that cover easily and simply out-maneuvering them was very difficult. Better to stay entrenched and let the enemy come to you, but you still need to capture enemy territory to win the war.
There is no reason to shoot while running, especially when you would only hit a wall. Remember, they have to reload too. It's very hard to reload while running. If you take a shot, you better have something you can aim at and hopefully hit. And when they were climbing the hill to try and breach the fort, they had the low ground. The Confederate soldiers were twice as effective shooting down on them, and if the Union soldiers shoot there is no reloading at that point. They would just be running into gun fire trying to fist fight. Today, soldiers will just repeatedly fire in the direction of the enemy because it's jut a trigger pull.
And unless a movie is making it clear that they are incompetent, it's best to go into it thinking they are using the tactics that are considered normal and prudent, instead of just yelling "shoot" over and over.
That makes sense. Thank you for helping us understand the movie. - Toni 🤓
They were single-action rifles, that took half a minute to load even if you were standing still. If you shot with it while running, not only would you be unlikely to hit anything, but it meant it was basically dead weight until you got close enough to bayonet somebody.
Sorry I missed the live, getting ready for a 2500 mile trip. Will watch the video when I can.
Fighting tactics were from the Napoleonic Era. They had not kept up with the advance in weapons technology. "Fire & Maneuver" tactics were not introduced until late in the 19th century.
Thank you for the insight. - Toni 🤓
The Enfield pattern is a single shot rifled muzzle loading rifle... this is difficult to advance with while laying down a base of fire, so the support function would fall to the artillery firing shrapnel and shell during the preparatory phase and then from the flank for as long as the fire is more threat to the defences than to the assaulting troops.
Keeping the musquets loaded so that they can be used to greater effect at closer range, while being less exposed to fire by closing quickly is favourable... the intial assault did carry the wall, but was repelled by the retrenchment behind the breech. Artillery firing small canister, and a counterattack by fire.
Later, metal cartridge pattern rifles made keeping up fire while moving much easier, especially with a magazine and bolt or lever action (or the officer's revolvers).
Thank you for helping me understand. I truly appreciate it. - Toni 🤓
Everyone brought their A-Game to this film. Mathew Broderick, Morgan Freeman, Denzel Washington and Andre Braugher especially. I love this movie for it's realistic approach to the story. Thank you so much for reacting to this movie.
Two of Fredrick Douglas's sons would volunteer to join the 54th when it was formed. I believe they both survived the war although one was wounded during the attack on Ft. Wagner. He was promoted to Sgt. Major the same rank as Morgan Freeman's character in the movie.
Certain movies always get my attention when a channel reacts to them. This is one of those movies. Another good one for Black History Month: Stephen Spielberg's AMISTAD. Or if you want to go with the Presidents Day theme: Oliver Stone's JFK.
Amistad is great!
Thank y'all for reacting to this one!
One of the things you have to remember is that the weapons at the time meant that if you shot on approach you would have to stop and reload. Those guns are muzzle loaders (IE loaded from the top) which means you can't reload them from a prone or kneeling position. That paints a huge bullseye on you. Also shooting at an entrenched and fortified position is the height of pointlessness. You might hit someone 1 out of 10,000 times.
Thank you so much for the insight. That makes complete sense and appreciate you taking the time. - Toni 🤓
@@popculturallychallengedI'm a historian and my expertise is in the Civil War. If you guys ever have any questions (Like if you ever react to Gettysburg) I can answer anything you need!
Denzel is from my hometown, Mt. Vernon, NY. Nope, never met him LOL
at least a 1/3 chance toni is burned out on crying before the end
The end for sure
Toni will definitely cry when Denzel gets flogged but considering he should and if in a normal outfit would be executed. He got off easy
I love this film.
If you ever have the opportunity to visit the Fort Wagner battlefield on Morris Island SC I would highly recommend it. The fort itself has been reclaimed by the ocean and no longer exists but the beach and surroundings all still remain. It is truly hollowed ground and you can’t help the tears that will come along with the goosebumps when you’re feet touch the sand.
Definitely adding it to our bucket list. - Toni 🤓
Linear combat was the most effective way to deliver firepower when using muzzle loading weapons. To punch a hole in the enemy line you need to drown it with lead. 2 ranks of soldiers elbow to elbow allowed firepower and maneuverability.
You guys make a great couple and I enjoys watching your movies! 🙂
Thank you for watching with us! - Toni 🤓
the reason they are not shooting during the attack is it would slow down the charge and keep the troops in the "kill zone" longer. it is better to cross the kill zone as quickly as you can.
That makes sense. Thank you for the insight. - Toni 🤓
I have his letters compiled in "Blue-eyed child of fortune" - Robert Gould Shaw
The rebels in fort wagner would have had fire slits, and would not have been visible to the attackers until the crested the top of the fort. You can't shoot what you can't see. The movie has artistic license to make these scenes more dramatic.
To answer your biggest question throughout the film....One of the negatives of the industrial revolution was the speed of technological advances. Military technology evolved way faster than military techniques. Basically from the French Revolution until arguably World War One, the body counts were tremendous, especially in the Civil War because armies fought with 19th century weapons, but used 17th and 18th century techniques and strategies.
War is Hell❤🔥this is going to be an Intense Experience👍and Toni won't be the only one Crying here tonight...😢
Not quite what William Tecumseh Sherman actually said. He was addressing a graduating class at West Point, and said, "I know some of you boys think that war is all glory, but I'm here to tell you it's all hell." He was subsequently misquoted simply as "War is hell."
I Just Watched This Movie Last Night, Great Movie, Great Cast, Great Performances By Everyone In This Movie 👍, Great Reaction Guy's
If you are running to attack, and you shoot, how do you reload? "Hey Rebs! Wait a sec until I reload". Muzzle loading single shots.
Believe it or not, one charge in the Civil War against a previously believed impregnable position was made when the commander ordered the Union soldiers to assault uphill a stone wall and sunken road offering shoulder high protection (at Chancellorsville in the Fredericksburg sector) with EMPTY rifles, so the men would have no choice but to keep charging over the last few terrible yards.
Against all odds, it was successful, and the Union soldiers carried Mayre's Heights with the bayonet. The infamous picture taken behind the stone wall in the sunken road is after this "Second Fredericksburg", showing Rebel soldiers lying dead, shot, clubbed and bayonetted in the road.
Aside from Gettysburg, I would recommend ironclads, and the best historical war movie of this style in my humble opinion TNT's Rough Riders. For Rough Riders I suggest a double watch with the commentary the second time.
The Patriot wasn't about real historic people, Glory is.
A big problem with letting the soldiers shoot back is they get stuck and won't advance. They need to get as close to the enemy as possibly before shooting in order to move the enemy back. When charging a fort, this gets very difficult.
Warfare tactics during this time period were brutal. There was no air support to clear the battlefield first and weapons were very basic so the strategy was basically to win by numbers of men, hand to hand combat. This why the Civil War had so many casualties. Men on the front lines were basically going to die.
_"Why don't they fire?!"_ Their rate is three aimed shots per minute. So, fire at a target under cover, then stand in place reloading for a slow count of twenty. _Then_ fire again. Or else run forward, and hope that other people get shot before you get into position to hit someone.
They'd demonstrated their capability in the previous fight -- which they'd won.
There was plenty of covering fire -- from the artillery pounding the fort. A few hundred rifle bullets per minute wouldn't have added much to that.
Yah, I got called some things in basic I did not even know were a part of any lexicon anywhere. And you kinda wanted an umbrella with that dude an inch from your face.
He said "Give 'em hell 54'.
That was his moment he was first asked hy Robert to carry the color and he said no and Thomas volunteered but soon as Robert died in front of them without hesitation or moment to think picked up the colors and yelling to his regiment and was shoot was beating moment quick as it maybe but gave the first to his fellow soldiers 29:54
It should've never happened in the first place, and I forget how long it took to be corrected but the pay was eventually made equal amongst all soldiers. Not only was it made equal regardless of race but also the back pay that was owed was paid as well. So, if a soldier served for 12 months and was only getting paid $10 a month, he would've gotten $120 for that year, when he should've gotten $156. When it was corrected to getting $13 a month like everyone else that soldier also received the $36 dollars, he should've gotten that first year he served.
Thank you for your reaction. This is my 2nd favorite movie behind The Godfather.
I'm so jealous my fiance got to watch this back in 7th grade History class and I just watched this 4 years ago for the first time. If my mom didn't find the VHS copy at a Rummage Sale and giving it to me, I still may not have gotten to this one. But yeah So Good. I recommend Gettysburg Next.
That was the strategy of combat in 1862...walking in files...shoulder to shoulder. When the union soldiers tried to over take the fort at the end...You can stand there and shoot...Reason...When you are trying to take the high ground, you must keep moving upward...The Unions problem was they did not assault that fort with enough men...They also would have problems bringing Cannon fire because the sand would be a issue in moving the Cannons.
Thank you for clearing that up and help me understand - Toni 🤓
You guys were really getting into the battles!!
Still looking forward to seeing you guys react to
“Twelve Angry Men”
Yes Glory is a true story. And Denzel Washington won the Oscar for Best Supporting Actor that year. I have read comments here suggesting other civil war movies based on fact. I have seen most of the suggestions and they are good. "Gettysburg" is also one of my favorites.
But no one suggested the 2019 release of the movie "Harriet". Harriet Tubman not only made multiple trips smuggling slaves out of the south by way of the Underground Railroad, she also led black troops into battle. It's an entertaining movie and another good history lesson.
Cool fact the leader of the regiments are in the back leading there solders where to go but the leader of the 54 went in front of the battle and lead all his troops 1 reason why he is so respected.
Watch "War Games", which is another Matthew Broderick movie, a year or 2 before Ferris Bueller came out. Also starring Aly Sheedy from Breakfast Club.
I do remember when Glory came out, and a lot of people questioned why Broderick was picked for the lead role. I think he did a decent performance, but not Oscar winning.
yeah just because you see actors that have played comedic roles in the past does it mean that that's all they do.. amazing movie , great cast and story
Though I had a hard time not thinking about Ferris Bueller, I thought he did a good job and after seeing the original person's picture I think he did a great job. - Toni 🤓
One of the most historically accurate movies based on actual events that Hollywood has produced, it does have some historical inaccuracies of course but for the most part is very close. One of those inaccuracies though is the scene that this movie is probably known for and that is the whipping of Denzel's character for desertion. Flogging of soldiers as a punishment had been banned in the US military in 1861, and the 54th was not formed until 1862. Had Shaw actually flogged any of his men he at the very least would've been dishonorably discharged from the army. And there is no record officially or unofficially of Shaw doing this, not even a witness report from a surviving member of the 54th. It was only added in the movie for dramatic effect.
Now if it had still been an option for punishment, it would've probably been the least harsh punishment he could have given. The only other options for desertion would've either been execution of the soldier or being sent to a POW camp for the duration of the war. Which would've probably been a death sentence for a soldier from the 54th as Union POW camps would've been filled with Confederate prisoners.
Another inaccuracy is in the climactic assault on Fort Wagner. It's common practice to depict action onscreen as moving from left to right, and it made for a very memorable shot to show the ocean in the background, on the soldiers' left side. In reality the 54th made their approach on the fort from the south side, with the ocean on their right.
Powerful scene
Awesome video
Denzel more than earned the Oscar he got for this film
That's awesome, I didn't realize he had earned an Oscar for this. Thank you for the additional info. - Toni 🤓
@popculturallychallenged
He got the Oscar for Best Supporting Actor that year.
A bullet doesn't give a good Goddamn what color we are, for we all bled red!!!
😢 - Toni
Attacking an entrenched enemy uphill is much more difficult than defending it from top shooting down at an attacking force. Think about what happened less than a year earlier than this time-period at the battle of Gettysburg. By the way, you should do a reaction on that movie with it's all-start cast.
In Sun Tzu's The Art of War, military leaders are advised to take high ground and let the enemy try to attack from a lower position. Fighting from an elevated position is said to be easier for a number of tactical reasons. (from Wikipedia)
The First Battle shown is the Battle of Antietam, still the single bloodiest day in American History. 22,700 or so casualties, with nearly 4 thousand of those KIA.
That truly breaks my heart. So many sacrifice. - Toni 😢
@@popculturallychallengedIt was very, very brutal. The area in the north of the Battlefield was called the Cornfield and it (along with the Wheatfield in Gettysburg) are considered some of the bloodiest parts of ground in the civil war.
Guns did not have a lot of range, so the tactic was to march as close as possible before firing.
By 1863, the rifled musquet and minie ball had made aimed fire ranges long enough that artillery could be denied the use of effective canister fire by musquetry. Shrapnel and shell could still be effective, but the use of close range canister fire had become... awkward.
The muzzle loaders were still slow to load, and the effect of firing during an advance was to pin the advancing unit in place, which defeats the advance as reliably as heavy casualties - so while manoeuvring supporting units would fire so the assaulters could rapidly close and pour their one shot in from a nice, close, effective range that would allow an immediate charge to contact (or to occupy the abandoned position) with bayonets. Once in the objective the survivors could lay down fires, while the supports came up and took over the position.
The most modern rifles and the revolvers had breech loading and brass cartridges or multiple chambers loaded individually - but these were fairly novel, and most of the infantry rifles for line troops were the older muzzle loading types.
You always fight the current war with the tactics of the last one. During the American Civil War, they taught, and fought with Napoleonic Tactics. That was where you had smoothbore muskets that were not very accurate. So what you would do was march in a line, up within 50 - 60 yards of the enemy and all fire at once. That way you are sure to hit some of them. Remember these guns were single shot. Then you would attack with the bayonet. In the Civil War, the soldiers had RIFLES. Rifles were accurate up to 150 yards or more. You didn't need massed fire. BUT... that's not how the Military genius Napoleon fought. So, they would march up in a line and fire, and so very many were killed. High Command was so blind that they didn't change tactics until almost the end of the war. The same thing happened in WWI, modern weapons and obsolete tactics.
I would like to see you two watch another great Civil War movie. It's titled Gettysburg and the score for it is awesome.
June 6th 2024 is the 80th anniversary of D-Day:
"The Longest Day" (1962)
June 4th-6th is the 82nd anniversary of the WW2 Pacific Battle of Midway:
"Midway" (1976)
July 1st 2024 is the 126th anniversary of Teddy Roosevelt's charge up San Juan Hill:
"Rough Riders" (1997)
July 1st-4th is the 161st anniversary of the Battle of Gettysburg:
"Gettysburg Extended Edition" (1993)
As Hollywood as the ending may seem, in regards to the flag, but the ending is entirely true. The 54th never let the American flag touch the ground.
flogging was a normal punishment in the Army, white or black. this is 150 years ago, things were very different. the drill sgt's job was to prepare these men for battle. going soft on them is not a kindness, it will get them killed. the 54th Mass was involved in the siege of Charleston SC. the first battle in the woods was the battle of folley island, i believe. the assault upon Battery Wagner was to try and open the harbor to allow the navy enter the harbor.
" Why do they have to use such unkind words"? . Combat and War isn't kind, and neither will the feelings, emotion and words that you will feel when you see people around you die. As you can see as the movie progresses, the hard training and lessons given at camp save a few of the men's lives on the battle field. From teaching Jupiter to take marksmanship and speed seriously, to Thomas using his bayonet with lethal intention, There is a method to the madness. And this rings true still today in military training.
Thank you for taking some time to explain. - Toni 🤓
They don't have automatic weapons and limited ammunition those days it was given your going to lose most of your troops the plan is to get the other half into the fort up close and personal
Cpl said: GIVE'EM HELL FIFTY FOUR!!!
Back when our football coach was our history teacher speaking of history
An officers weapons were traditionally a sword and a pistol, all the way until World War 1 for European armies, and the Japanese kept this tradition in World War 2. Rifled muskets such as both sides had during the Civil War could hit a man-sized target at 250 yards, and they could kill at much farther distances if the bullet hit an artery or a major organ like the liver. The concluding battle shows how difficult it is to defeat an enemy in a fortified position when there is no way to approach without being fired upon. Also, the naval bombardment from the ships that are seen close to shore was ineffective. My guess is that the only way the battle could have gone differently for the Union (Federal) troops is if they had dug World War 1 style trenches around Fort Wagner to isolate the fort, and brought up the biggest siege mortars available to bombard the fort with artillery fused to explode at ground level within the fort itself. I wish I could say why the attacking troops did not fire their weapons more, but I don't know why.
Because they are difficult to reload standing still, Impossible while charging across a battfield, And the accuracy sucked, if they had fired from range they wouldn't have hit anyone, just the ramparts of the fort, And would not have a chance to reload for when they get into the fort.. Basically they are saving the shot until there's a chance of actually hitting an enemy with it..
During the final charge: you only have one shot. Get close and make it count.
The 54ths Assault on Ft Wagner is the single greatest Civil War battle scene ever filmed
Shooting up hill at the top part of there bodies was more often a missed shot. They were open targets and were trying to get too the hill to lay down and get small. When your attacking and charging in, you're going to take way more casualties. And Matthew Broderick is the spitting image of Colonel Shaw. And lashings were the norm for punishment for desertion. But they probably could've done better with a punishment as demeaning as that to a black man.
Really frustrating to watch the final scene of this reaction. The point of taking a fort is not to shoot at the fort. There’s no point because you’re only carrying muskets and everyone inside is behind cover. The point is to storm the fort, which means getting over the walls and inside as fast as possible
I tell you, I have learned so much while watching movies for the channel. Thank you so much for sharing this. This makes sense. - Toni 🤓
Right on point
That's why you don't attack forts. They are behind cover. If you have to attack you need to overwhelm them. 1 shot rifles.
BTW next movie should be Spartacus so Toni has to wear a toga! I'd donate for that. TOGA TOGA TOGA!!! : ) Sorry, I be good now.
In 1855 the rifled musket was invented. This caused the bullet to spin (like a spiral football pass) as it left the barrel. The previous muskets were effective at around 50-100 yards. The rifled muskets could be fired effectively at 300 yards and even beyond.
Sadly almost all the Generals based their tactics on previous wars which may seem foolish now, but really for the first time, technology would start changing in a drastic way with every war. Because of this, and because the Civil War was America vs. America the number of men that died in the Civil War comes close to the total for all other wars combined.
In the final battle when they are attacking the fort and not shooting back I think I can explain a bit of why.
There are two ways to attack a fort. Siege or assault. A siege means you surround the fort and block anyone from coming or going and they lose when they run out of food or water.
In this case they assaulted the fort. When attacking a fort, your enemy is uphill and entrenched. If you just match man for man and shoot it out until someone wins, you are going to lose because of those two advantages forts have. This is why forts and castles have been built for millennia.
Since they knew they didn't want to get into a shooting match, and that they wanted to rush in past all the gunners and engage in melee combat, everyone "fixed bayonets" to their rifles so now they effectively have a spear in battle instead of a knife or club, MUCH BETTER.
There were obviously opportunities where they might have fired a volley, reloaded and fired again but reloading with a bayonet fixed when huddled together, trying to stay low or find cover so you can't get shot is difficult.. You reach back to grab a bullet from your pouch not knowing the guy behind you is lying flat on the ground trying to reload and you get stabbed in the arm. Far from ideal.
😂 Well I think I like your suggestion better then what David said off camera.... 😂
Thank you for taking the time to explain that, it does make more sense now. Completely appreciate the time you took to help us out. - Toni 🤓
I went to fort Wagner and it’s all under water now.
Oh wow.... that's crazy! - Toni 🤓
You guys missed the seminal moment of the movie, when the 54th earns the respect of the white regiments. The soldier who initially disrespected them and almost fought Trip was the one who said, "Give 'em hell, 54th." The most important part of the film.
And an interesting side note, that soldier was played by the movie's screenwriter Kevin Jarre.
One historic items movies get wrong including this one is colors on uniforms. Hollywood likes to put calvery rank patches on all officers and in this case artillery sashes on the men. Gold is calvery, Blue is Infantry and Red for Artillery. Also artillery often had a black or dark grey/navy vest with red piping. This was to hide powder stains. On the whole a good film but far from perfect.