I Paid 15 Mastering Engineers to Master the Same Song... and Found a Hidden Gem
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- čas přidán 5. 05. 2024
- I hired 15 mastering engineers to master the same song, in hopes I could find a hidden talent…
☛ Learn the go-to starting points for EQ and compression in heavy mixes with my FREE Mixing Cheatsheet: mixcheatsheet.com
Featured in this video:
Music: Deja Vu by If I'm Lucky open.spotify.com/track/49o5jP...
Best master: Daniel Santiago www.fiverr.com/s/Wa6NYx
Note - Official release master by Matt Goings
Watch This Next: Producing a song start to finish - • Producing a song start...
Music I’ve Worked On: open.spotify.com/playlist/6I7...
Website: hardcoremusicstudio.com
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MY FAVORITE GEAR:
Computer / Interface:
Mac M1 Studio Max sweetwater.sjv.io/anOMOo
Avid Carbon sweetwater.sjv.io/ZQ6M6g
Apogee Duet 3 sweetwater.sjv.io/y2qXqb
Monitors / Headphones:
Avantone CLA-10a sweetwater.sjv.io/WqyMyZ
Audio Technica ATH-M50 sweetwater.sjv.io/PyOMON
Microphones:
Shure SM57 sweetwater.sjv.io/daOMy7
AKG D112 sweetwater.sjv.io/Kj0MBy
Sennheiser e604 sweetwater.sjv.io/DKyvWa
Shure SM7b sweetwater.sjv.io/5g5vk3
AKG C451b sweetwater.sjv.io/jre9Rv
Shure SM81 sweetwater.sjv.io/eK1LnD
Audio Technica AT4050 sweetwater.sjv.io/JzKMqr
Preamps/Outboard:
API 3124 sweetwater.sjv.io/eK1LRD
EL8 Distressor sweetwater.sjv.io/XYmMd4
Favorite Plugins:
BSA Clipper blacksaltaudio.com/clipper
Escalator blacksaltaudio.com/escalator
Low Control blacksaltaudio.com/low-control
Silencer blacksaltaudio.com/silencer
DSR blacksaltaudio.com/dsr
Waves SSL Bundle waves.alzt.net/dMd4q
Waves CLA Compressors waves.alzt.net/0va0P
Waves Platinum waves.alzt.net/jxz2M
Slate Trigger 2 sweetwater.sjv.io/MmAM53
SoundToys Rack sweetwater.sjv.io/xkLgyd
Auto-tune Pro sweetwater.sjv.io/OreMYr
Vocalign Project sweetwater.sjv.io/xkLgyA
Cranesong Phoenix II sweetwater.sjv.io/PyOMrz
Instruments / Amps:
Ludwig Black Beauty Snare sweetwater.sjv.io/1r9vDR
Gibson Les Paul sweetwater.sjv.io/B0nvz1
Evertune Guitars sweetwater.sjv.io/WqyM6P
Fender Jazz Bass sweetwater.sjv.io/nLX5R6
Sansamp Bass Driver DI sweetwater.sjv.io/OreM9Q
EVH 5150 sweetwater.sjv.io/4PGvr9
Mesa 2x12 cab sweetwater.sjv.io/75avGA - Hudba
Grab your free Mixing Cheatsheet to learn the go-to starting points for EQ and compression in heavy mixes: www.mixcheatsheet.com
Can I do free mix or master for any video?
Jordan is the man! I absolutely love mastering music and I am extremely thankful to have been a part of this video! Thanks again, this was a wonderful experience!
-Dan, The Mastering Man
😆👍
Great work Daniel. And awesome to hear your process through it. Keep up the good work. I work at a studio so I might be hitting you up for some mastering in the future!
@@andrewakinsmusic well thank you very much! I really appreciate it! Yeah if you ever need anything let me know!
Searched around for you. Your insta link doesn’t work and nothing on your website to give you a follow.
Beautiful master Daniel! You've got the juice!
@@paulbeharrell thank you! I really appreciate it! 🫡
Oh wow, that was a good interview afterwards. Thanks for including it, guys.
You picked my winner. Daniel had the best combination of loudness, punch, aggression, and sheen, while avoiding harshness. Great video. Thanks! Love these!
Master 8 rips. It's the only one that feels like a "master" to me. They're DEFINITELY undercharging though.
Hey Austin! I agree. Soon as I heard it I was pretty convinced that one would win, especially after level matching
Honestly the last 5 left were all really good.
My jaw dropped when I saw the price!
@@joshuadelaughter7968 yeah no shame in top 5 in this case. I'd be happy to meet their quote
What a good dude, glad to hear he's a fan. I think that's a testimony in itself at how good of a teacher you are!
The underrated lesson of this video: ALWAYS check the bitrate of the files you're importing!
(I absolutely do not speak from experience & have never completed a mix only to realize it was at the wrong bitrate before sending it out. Neeeevveeerrr.)
Another important point: a good mastering engineer needs to be evaluated, in my opinion, over a portfolio of releases - not a single track. "Someone" from a popular youtube channel referred me to a mastering engineer who was just starting out and did a fine job on a single track, but the work he delivered to me was, alas, very poor quality.
The problem here was the samplerate. But yes both need to always be checked!
I love Dan's enthusiasm and approach. I hope heaps of work are heading his way!
That SR error made me spit my coffee through my nose. Wow.
I thought it was auto warp in Ableton that wasn't turned off.. crazy stuff!
I can not fathom how this can happen. The person either never listened to the original outside of the DAW (which is crazy), or downloaded the track and ran it through some type of chain and is just pumping these masters out without checking anything.
I don’t know, if you are a professional or say you are, then act like it. Stuff like this is what makes musicians and artists so hesitant to work with people online. This mistake is the equivalent of a Limo driver not filling up his gas tank. 🤦🏻♂️
@unlockedaudio5109 I hear issues like this often in broad ast content. Be it clock source problems or sample rate mismatches, cut takes without crossfades, lack of filtering when blatantly necessary etc., there are a lot of jobs being billed for that are garbage.
While the broadcast world is different, the issues are often the same. I hear poor edits and obvious phase issues in music all the time.
This one had me shaking my head for sure.
If the ME sees this, I hope you have identified the error on your end and learn from this. We all make them at times but this one really highlights the importance of listening to every second of work you put your name on.
What i'm always noticing first thing with these is if the transients are preserved or not
Good call
It doesn't have to be the most expensive monitoring system you just need to really know what great mixes and masters sound like on what you have.
I don't think you realise just how much transient compression among other things is happening on lower end systems. You should listen to a very high end mastering set up, it will change everything you thought you knew.
@@1337murk Hopefully I will one day.
Dude you should reveal your number 2 pick. I'm sure some of your Watchers would appreciate the lower price and similar quality.
Mad props to the band, I’m finding myself singing along to the chorus by the time you’ve made it to master #4, mega catchy.
Love these comparisons you do. So many little gems of knowledge listening to your critiques. Thanks again for taking the time to do this!
Thanks Jordan that was really interesting to watch and very helpful in regards to what to look for in a master, cheers
Awesome video man, huge learn for me. Great work from both of you 🤘🤘🤘
Santiago killed it, good philosophies on how to treat it, too.
That was just fantastic! Love the interview. Inspiring!
Sending a mix at -8 lufs is pretty spicy haha. Doesn’t give the mastering person much headroom to work with
You can just turn it down. It’s digital so you’re not really doing anything to the sound. Although I will say that is a bit hot for a mix…
I'd wanna mix it loud to get that loudness. -8 is not that crazy though, still got some dbs to work with. isn't the best way to make the mix just sound as finished as you can. then the ME can take it further from there.
As long as the mix isn't clipping it doesn't matter in the age of 32bit float. Mastering engineer can just turn down the mix for headroom cleanly no problem. If anything its a smart move to send a loud mix, cause loudness comes from the mix mainly. Also, you can get a better line of communitcation from the M.E. that you want it loud.
@@MariJu1ce-8 in LUFS is really loud for a mix. Not unheard of especially for this type of music, but normally you would get that level post master, not mix.
Especially when streaming standards (although more for a nice guideline rather than a rule) is anywhere between -14 to -10 in LUFS, you’re already creeping into the loud territory with potential conversion artifacts for streaming. The mastering engineer will turn it down for more headroom and so transients don’t hit their equipment so hard. This is almost a certainty, and easily manageable so it really doesn’t matter in the digital world.
By saying you have some dB’s left would be fine for peak or RMS, but you would never want to go to 0 LUFS. In fact, I can’t think of anything that would remotely sound good at that level, as you would probably be edging toward the sound of noise at that strength of perceived loudness.
@unlockedaudio5109 dense mixes can get there easy. You just hit near 0db.
Halfway through the vid and #1 is my favourite so far, i feel like it keeps the energy the balance the mix has, and i like the transients the most in that one
>Charge 40 bucks a master.
>Load it into a mastering AI
>send it back to Jordan 5 mins later
>have him pick it as the best one
I was wondering why you'd choseb11c over a and b because I thought it was the darkest, and then you eliminated it for being to dark, lol
Honestly like b was wayy better...the fact that he kept it till when he did, i was like Brooo
Agreed 11a was better than 11c, but neither was in the top anyway
So enjoyed the interview at the end - what great insights
Wow this was awesome great insight into mastering!
Recently found this channel. I love this.
This reminds me of those old TV specials where a magician shows a bunch of cards on the screen and tells you to pick one, and when they get down to the last card it's like "GET OUT OF MY HEAD, DEVIL!" Great video, man!
I feel kinda cool that my top 3 masters were 1, 7 and 8 from the start...
🤘🏻😎🥃
This is an incredible video. It was satisfying to see the steps taken by the winning engineer. Thanks a lot.
I'd like to see something similar to this, but starting out with a really shoddy mix.. see if anyone can save that :D
The only thing we'd learn from that is that no amount of mastering can save a shitty mix
@@RedbeardMaximus I guess I'd still love to watch that unfold, lol.
Honestly I'd watch that too. Just to see how far someone can take a stereo mix. I bet there would be a few surprises
That’s best example of do it by yourself. All results is different. it’s not always about the experience it’s sometimes just about the specific person taste.
Fantastic, I like these type of video's. I found nr 8 to be the best too. Excellent low end. Make more of these video's.
I like that song ....
This guy reminds me of Chris Kattan. Great job on the master!
I guess Mr. Santiago will have much work soon
so much learning from one video, thank you
woohoo i picked 8 from the start
me too. 👍
Great job. I was picking the same one... 🙂 But the kix already sounded great.
Thank you for the video. I'm a bit confused with the Lufs #s. Don't youtube and spotify drop them to -14 anyway?
I genuinely don’t understand the focus on loudness. The mix was already loud. And compete with what? What does that mean in the real world? Most people are listening to music through loudness normalized streaming, so all you’re doing is losing dynamic range. The only time anyone is going to hear the full loudness is if they bought the music already, or in the rare cases where they go into their Spotify settings and turn off normalization. No one gives a shit. They’re not doing A/B testing. You want it to “compete” in what setting? I just don’t understand. Everyone that cares complains about squashed mixes anyway, but still loudness seems to be the number one concern with masters. This makes no sense to me. Maybe someone can explain it to me.
Louder = better
If someone is listening without normalization, your work will sound like shit compared to other stuff. And even with normalization, louder mix will sound more dense, more powerful. That’s all
When normalized it can sound quieter when in a playlist with other songs on Spotify for example.
So two things so far:
Perceived volume vs actual volume is a thing for sure, but the trade off is listener fatigue. If you’re only worried about people hearing your music for three minutes in passing then I guess you aren’t worried about that, but I think that’s a weird way to approach your music.
Secondly, I feel like everyone heard “our brain is going to think louder things sound better” and took it to heart and are now thinking that if anyone out there hears your song quieter than some other song then they’re gonna think yours sounds like shit. But tell me, when has anyone ever said “Dark Side of the Moon is weak and it sounds like shit”? Is that your reaction, to say to yourself “this sounds like shit, next!” instead of maybe turning the volume knob up a little? If not then why would you assume everyone else is? And I gotta say more often than not I find myself just getting annoyed that I’ve got to turn the volume down a ton because some band put their music out 6dB louder.
Yeah loudness is important, especially in rock, metal, pop, but I feel like there is a threshold. At a certain point as long as it’s loud enough and not glaringly quieter than the songs it will be playlisted with you’re good. In other genres outside rock and metal I’ve heard songs that are pretty quiet that get millions of spins.
Not sure what others might get out of this, but I get a lot. It was between 1, 5, and 8 from the very first listen. I was leaning on 1 at the end... and the thing that gave me the biggest takeaway was I kept "feeling" the energy build in 8. It was undeniable... though my preference (probably a style thing) was the quality of 1... that build that Daniel explained in the video was subconsciously evident. Man, there is a lot of lessons there. Even applies to writing, recording, and mixing. Great video.
I think the best vocal mix by a long way was mix #7, but i agree that the guitar/bass/drum were punchier and better in mix #8
so nice dude. and so nice, dude!
I would go with 7 just for clarity in the vocals and mid range
Great job Mr. Santiago!
Thank you very much!
What is the difference between _Clipper_ ( which you often use in the drums bus) and _MasterPlan_ (which you suggested to me some time ago as an alternative to _Fg-X_ )?
Great content
As soon as i heard number 8 i thought it was the best 😁 it just gets you right away! Glad you picked it too! Yay :)
I liked the Master Nr. 8 from the beginning!
Jordan, is it true that you can overcome the normalization in streaming services if your master is loud enough? Or is there another reason you want to compete with loudness even though technically streaming services try to normalize by default?
As a person who buys music, loudness still matters. Having to constantly change the volume because some tracks are too quiet (or in some cases too loud) is annoying. It would be nice if the standard wasn't as loud as possible, just because it's hard to get songs that loud without crushing the mix.
everything on spotify gets normalised but a loud sound is still loud, even if it is turned down in its peak level
Nice video again. I was listening on a 5K€ hifi home system the whole time streaming vid in 4K and I picked master 1, 7 and 8 right from the bet at first listen. I think all three are great and could work. With 7 I ended up thinking it sounded like a radio-master, slightly more compressed like you're hearing it from a radio playback. 1 sounded the most alive, but I agree that 8 strikes the best balance between loudness and great sound.
/Mixing engineer in electronic music*
For me the #1 was the one. it was more open sounding. 8 was bit muddy on my headphones.
Great video again....what otherr combinations would there be...I don't have a budget for that setup..of course I would love it.. T5..f303 cam edelbrock rpm heads,355 gears and 100 shot of nitrous maybe 175 nitrous..and that's it for me..great videos always.Ny loves you man!...I'm trying to make it to Ford Takeover. ..
what a great guy
I think 11a and 11b were actually quite brighter than 11c and I was surprised Jordan picked 11c to start with, and then he got rid of it cause it wasn't bright enough😅 Anyway, too much choice is not a good thing, both in terms of three versions from one engineer and comparing more 15 different versions in one go😂
8 to me was by far the best in my AirPods Pro. And I’m writing this before I see who you selected. It’s the only one that sounded “professional”.
I think you should post who came in second place.
why do you want it to be louder / why do you care about lufs? would be interesting to hear a detailed explanation on that 🙏 feel free to point me to a section where HMS address this 👍👍
why is your mix in mastering level first place ???
I'm in my studio and i could tell when you started eliminating mixes, #8 was gonna be the one. Gotta go find that guy to see if he can stem master my tracks.
Master 8 was killer! Def the best to me as a “normal dude” who doesn’t know much about audio.
Do a video where you let your subscribers master 😎
It was so hard to decide between #1 and #8; they were both good.
I picked 3 and 7 early on. 7 was my favorite. This was fun.
I actually got 2 versions from a top tier at sterling years ago. One version was louder and the other one was how loud he thought it shouldn't been. The band choose the louder one lol.
The song itself has parts in it that sound similar to The Last Song by The All-American Rejects. Not a bad thing though, I still jam to that one on occasion.
Ive listened to the video on AirPods and interestingly nr.5 was the best sounding mix on AirPods. I wonder if this is the mastering engineers focus.
1st one must be ozone assistant :P
Can u do this with mixing now?
He seems so sweet!!
I use Frank Arkwright at Abbey Road. He's an excellent Mastering Engineer.
Neat. 7 was my fav until I heard 8. Pretty close.
i have 2 question ....the true peak of your mix was +0.5 db? ....and you listened to all 15 mastered version in one session without your ears/brain going "blind" after some time?
The execution on this idea really makes it. Delivers beyond the title. Great stuff, and thanks for the valuable info!
One of these tracks sounded like a Master from Mixea
If it was me I'd probably take #1 and pump it up a little but with the concept of the video it had to go to #8
Conplaining its not louder when its -8 LUFS already is idiotic.
What did your brief to the mastering folks say about loudness? Because depending on the format/platform (CD, Spotify, CZcams, etc.), they may have had very different _goals_ which they may or may not have known how to achieve, and that can't really be evaluated. And if you said nothing about loudness goals, you can evaluate the masters even less in terms of loudness, because you don't even know what they were shooting for.
Plot twist: Jordan mastered ALL the tracks.
I don't think there's any shame in the top 5 finalists. I understand that someone needs to be cut, but they were all great starting points for the price
Idk how you can do this lol. After the third version my brain starts hearing them in the same way it hears a word that was repeated too many times and lost all its meaning.
number 8 sounds deep & punchy.
number 15 sounds like compressed in 64 kbps 😂
oh no, number 5 was my best😄
For Master #11, I know that there is an online based mastering option made by Jay Maas called “Maaster”, which spits out 3-4 master options to choose from, so I’d be curious if #11 just put the mix into something like that and provided all of the options for the client to choose from. I hope that’s not the case. Cause that would be kinda lame calling yourself a mastering engineer and then just using auto mastering software to do your job for you 😬
Spotify and CZcams will limit your tracks to around 14LUFS. Is it still needed to master louder than that?
7:40 honestly i don't do this thing, but understand the technique. it's psychological trick. the engineer sent 2-3 version so the client will get busy to "choose which one better" rather than "finding what is wrong". but I agree with you, it's our job to decide.
interesting observation
@@mjk5254 my friends did it haha
Perhaps i miss something but apart of a CD release Mastering i don’t understand why it should be so important to Master at -6/-7 Lufs when most of the Streaming Platforms downgrade at -14 Lufs 🤔
Not all streaming platforms actually normalize loudness (even Spotify player in a web browser doesn't do it), and professionally made masters (especially in heavy genres) are mastered to -8-6 like Jordan said. So if you master to -14 and there's no normalization, your mix will be too quiet compared to professional ones
@@Revontuletbandtoo quiet you say? that's what the volume knob is for!
@@RealHomeRecordingthen you have to keep turning down or up your volume knob on every single song😟
cannot believe they didnt get the "reso" right. first one best for me, but maybe just the "first one effect". [edit] i like the song, got potential if u ask me.
Which 32 or 34 inch monitor do you recommend for music production today?
whoever made 15 has serious hearing damage I'd wager >.<
Either that or they are mastering 500 songs per day and working 22 hours stright... whilst drunk.
shame we couldn't concentrate on comparing 8 and 9
Mastering Engineer here
Always aim for about 0.0 LUFS or (if possible) positive LUFS as you will beat all the competitors
7 is very smeared
I feel it's not really fair to quickly eliminate the masters that add some highs - i find the original mix a bit dark sounding and adding some highs does add some musical energy and improves vocal intelligibility and top end in the drums. Better getting more energy that way than by just making it louder yet keeping the same tonality and losing (even more) dynamics in the process. Adding highs usually actually helps mixes translate better, specially to small speakers like cars, bluetooth crap, tv's, phones...
You might just have gotten a bit too used to the sound of your own mix to tolerate a slightly different perspective that actually does sound better to fresh ears - which is exactly the job of a mastering engineer. Even compared to your own reference tracks the mix is dark, it's audible in this very video. The fact a master with added highs by a top rated seller was eliminated must tell you something is off in the judgement if many others rate this engineer higher.
NS10's are not really fair to judge masters on either. They get harsh quickly. They should have been banned from studio's ages ago, they're only good for judging midrange and for having some common reference point between different studio's because everyone used to have them. They're old, yet you use them to review music that 'has to compete in todays market'. Consumers these days don't listen to anything NS10-like anymore.
Have you tried listening on something neutral like decent studio monitors in a well-treated room (which you surely possess - can't imagine NS10's are your only monitors at this level of working) or a HD650?
not me choosing master #5
I keep asking myself, why the hell doesn't Jordan Master himself? He can easily do it himself, why not?
The song is great by the way. I like it very much.
I’m glad you liked my song, my dude!
Its good to get a different perspective. You need another ear sometimes.
Tbh this would be way more interesting if he had these people mix this song
Your Mix was loud already sir😢
.....
what is the next content you're going to make from fiverr? I will make the gig of it. hahaha
Sounds like 10 of them were using ozone
1 is the best.. it's just not loud enough...
Wow some of these masters reeealy made the mix so much worse. Unbelievable lol! Seems weird to me that some people get into mastering without hearing that they destroyed it. If a masteringengineer gave me 3 versions of every song in an album I would be so confused, would have to pick between 30+ versions, would be absolutely horrible, just shows they are not confident at all in their craft, why would you be a mastering engineer if you're not confident in your ears