You should probably get these monitors
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- čas přidán 27. 07. 2024
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There's no overnight fixes when it comes to your mixing skills... but having these monitors might make the journey a little easier.
Check out this video to learn why you can find NS-10s in almost every pro studio, and how the new CLA-10's stack up against the old legends.
☛ Get the CLA10 monitors here: imp.i114863.net/J9mKE - Hudba
I watched a video called “the magic is in the mids”. I’ve used the technique of putting pass filters from 200 hz to 4K and just mix everything with the filters active. It’s amazing just how amazing everything sounds afterwards. The extreme lows and highs don’t have a chance to bestow their lies to my ears.
Did Colt also use 200 hz to 4k in his video?
I do the same on my mastertrack. Add a mono switch! It's THE game changer for your mix balance!!
@@sweetfoampunishment3286 Are you just saying that you reference in mono here, or...?
No kidding -So, you're saying you could just put the high pass and low pass on any old speaker instead of buying NS10's?? By "amazing how amazing things sound afterwards" are you talking about how things translate or how things sound once you take the filters off? Thanks.
I started doing the exact same thing and my mixes are 1000x times better! But I have no idea the reason why!
I started mixing on NS-10's in 1986 and moved on from them to Genelecs for a few decades ...I decided to quit swimming against the tide and jump "in the box" in 2020; (selling my board, monitors and most of my studio gear)... during that process; Jordan's videos inspired me to go back to NS-10's and streamline my plugins ...there is wisdom in his ability to cut through all the "hype" and give folks intelligent advice.... If you develop your ear on NS-10s, (or CLA's Avatones) , you will save yourself a lot of time learning to translate a mix...
I agree, personally i'd highly recommend getting the NS-10m STUDIO version, not the non-studio version.
Great video! Mike Senior with SOS talked in depth about the waterfall plot of the NS10s. The way the certain frequencies dont hang around and cloud the spectrum is truly awesome how Yamaha got there!
It's closed box instead of bass reflex that's why it has a quicker decay in the lows
Thanks for finally explaining why these are in every studio yet,when I ask the engineers to let me hear a mix through them, they were always less than enthusiastic, even refusing to do it
Great video Jordan! Makes sense low mids is one of the main focus points the hardest to get right.
These are still valid in today's world for mixing. Your translation will be cleaner and more balanced. I use a second pair of monitors for mastering which helps me check the low end information and super highs, but that is for the last 5-10%!
Ty x this honest approach to the real meanings of a good mix using those monitors.❤
Still in love with my HS5's. Perfect for my room-space and what's more - I got used to listening to music with those - not for mixing but just for fun. And I'm pretty happy. Maybe when the time comes to try new ones, I'll try those you're recommending here. Nice video, though.
HS-5's are WAY closer to the NS-10's frequency range, than any of the other speakers in the Yamaha series. You can find grafts and measurements online. 😊
I have the NS 144 with the tweeter control. Love them.
I like this video because you put in a good idea with how to achieve it, and also gave some equipment you can use to achieve it, also seems like you found some you like that helped you make it easier and gave you the idea for the video. Good experience, thanks for sharing with us
My NS10m from the eighties we not only tissue papered the tweeters - they also were wired with a fuse. After paying for new tweeters a few times - the fuse saved us from then on. You pump too much in and the fuse would blow - 15 cents for a fuse, or a couple hundred dollars for new tweeters - Which of course were easy to find back then. Local Yamaha repair had them in stock all the time. I imagine that would be harder to find now.
I absolutely agree with the mid analogy. We used to have the client speakers ( Big Tannoys ) that had that huge sound to them to impress clients. But the mixing was always done on the NS10s.
Tissue papered introducing comb filtering too 😅
Thanks for the lesson on the importance of mid-range frequencies!
I've had my CLA-10As (active monitors) for a couple of years now and so far, everything I've played in a car that was mixed on these speakers sounded surprisingly good!!! I'm very impressed with how well the mixes translated.
I can't say the same for my old M-Audio BX-8s. I've struggled with those to get mixes to translate because they scoop the midrange frequencies. Those speakers gave me a deceiving perception that my mixes sounded good. However, when I took the mixes and played them on a club PA, or even some car systems, the vocals and sometimes the bass sounded very muddy, which took me back to square one....trial and error re-tweaking. With that said, I feel much more confident in my midrange when mixing on the CLA-10A's along with my Yamaha MSP3's (as a second set of monitors) and a couple of subs (to check the sub bass and lowend). I'm actually planning on selling the BX-8s.
Man this was very enlightening for me as I have an old Pair of Fostex PA-1s that are like brand new because they were in storage for long. I've often thought they sounded like sh**. They range from 50Hz t0 20,000Hz and I'm realizing now they are probably exactly what I need as the old Yamaha NS-10s ranged 60Hz to 20,000Hz. I know the CLAs range from 60Hz to 20,000Hz as well.
Thanks again!!!
Informative video - thanks! You're well spoken and very listenable - a rarity for YT in my experience.
I recently got the Eris 3.5's I was using Hifi speakers( it's all I had) but after getting the nearfield monitors my mixes got so much better.
i've been thinking about getting the Eris 3's...
Love my NS-10M's...You're right, it took time to get used to them and trust them as well as integrate them into my workflow...!...But now, they're here to stay...!...Like JJP says..."The magic is in the midrange"...!!!
Extremely informative and refreshing. Thank you for this video.
That’s why I love 4” speakers to mix on… then check the Vibe (his and Lows/subs) on some mains (2.1 system)
Thanks Jordan, as always, very helpful...reminded me of a Colt Capperune vid called 'Magic Is In The Midrange'...confirmation!
Super great for making sure bass guitar can be heard on systems without a low end.
Back in 1990 I have also started with pair of a brand new NS-10M speakers and an Yamaha A-100 amplifier. They sounded very harsh so I sold them after five years of using them. Niether of my mix sounded good. To much bass, or very midrange sounding tracks. They lied to me, so I could not figure out what was wrong in my mix. So I do some research and find out that are other professional monitors that fit my expectation.
I have better results with Dynadio and one Auratone speakers. I am glad to hear that you are pleased with them. Keep on!
30 years ago when I started engineering I was lucky and got my hands of a paid of used NS10s. The original ones. The trick with those was to put a tissue paper on the tweeters to remove the harsh hi freq. Soon after I got the NS10Ms which till this day I still have and mix on. I do have a sub that I added and keep it low volume just to have a little low end reference. But Jordan has a great point, these speakers force you to tune into the mix and listen to what you need to eq, etc. However, If you learn your speakers, your mix should sound just as good.
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What position on the VTPC knob have you found is best to turn it to for the most similar response as the ns-10?
@HardcoreMusicStudio Thank you for the video. I also struggling a longer time to get the LA10 but I’m not quite sure it isn’t better to buy a pair and the amp and not the 10A Version because ns10 wasn’t passive at all. Any thoughts about this ?
I've recently and randomly discovered your channel, and you give some awesome mixing tips! Thanks!
So many things I wish I knew back when I was producing my own stuff 🤣
Anyway: I toyed with some rock multitrack I found online for about one and a half hour (so definitely not a complete mixing session) and yeah, I feel that I'm getting where I want to go! No magic, and it's quite fast.
I haven't got any proper monitors, but cutting the extreme low and highs helps a lot.
CLA is a magician - his Signature plugins, waves 1176 and now this pair!
I bought a pair. They just arrived today. I'm excited!
Years ago we got a pair and hated them! But then quite a few years later we understood exactly what you are saying now! That it,s the Mid Range Detail that they are good for and that is why they are so widely used!
i use slate VSX since come out...the emulation of NRG studios near field which are the ns10 are fantastic and my mixes translate 95% perfectly in every place... i think is the most amazing tool in my studio... never use again my real yahama for mixing since vsx come out! REALLY AMAZING!
I just got my Slate VSX headphones and they are amazing.
Definitely done my best mixes with VSX.
That's really compelling, I've been having my eye on those for some time now.
I also exclusively mix on VSX now. I can mix absolutely anywhere too and that’s awesome.
Similarly I’ve used the Waves CLA NX mix room plugin. It has NS10s, his custom Ocean Way built-ins, and a shitty Sony boombox for referencing. It’s a MONSTER CPU HOG, but it’s good for a quick reference to fix mix issues early on.
good advice, straight ahead, no excess just good info. thank you
I've compared both side-by-side, and found them to be interchangeable as well. 👍🏻
Which ones, NS-10m or NS-10m STUDIO against CLA-10? There is quite a difference between STUDIO vs. non-STUDIO NS-10's.
Great Video! Thanks!
Just got a pair of 1990's NS-10MX from Japan. They are awesome. Contrary to what is said they don't sound like crap, they sound REAL.
I mix with a pair NS10 and KRKG4. One for setting the midrange stuff set right, then go to the krk, hear all the little details the NS10's might have missed. As far as getting the vocal and snare to sit right the NS10's are invaluable.
These and the old Alesis Monitor Ones MK2 are the best for mixing and engineering sound.
They're flat speakers. They don't color or alter the lows or highs and keeps the mids even as the sound comes in.
That means what you hear from them is what you get. And with an accurate representation of the sound, you can mix much more accurately.
Nice in-depth review. Out of interest, what did you end up setting the Tissue Paper control to on the CLA-10's?
Think you nailed it. Just get NS-10's. They work
What do you have your VTPC knobs set to?
The tissue paper control on the CLA-10 mimicks producer/mixer Bob Clearmountain's handling of the bright highend of the NS10's. He simply put paper in front of the treble speaker in order to lower the highend.
Well, you hit the nail perfectly. I was mixing some years with Neumann KH310 and a KH750. An they sound great! But I completely lost the focus to the midrange and my mixes gone bad. Since I got the CLA and only change to the Neumanns for a short time to control the low end everything changed. My mixes got a lot more transparency and the low end is in nerly perfekt balanced. Great!!! I often read from people who think, the NS10/CLA are to old for modern music because they can't face all frequencies or whatever. About this I have to smile a little and think, "ok, they just need some years..." 😊. Ok, you need a secound pare of monitor for full range listening, but when you make music in a serious way, you have to do some investment. That's for sure. I can't say enough about the need of a pare of NS10 in a studio. And I make music since 30 years!
But I have one question. You saied you matched the high end of the CLA with the CLA... Which is the right position of the VTP? At the moment I use IT at about 11 o clock. Thanks in forward
I'm considering getting some Neumann KH 80 as an upgrade from my Focal Alpha 65's. The Neumanns seem to be the best in the price range, especially with the mic and room correction. My room is treated but far from perfect and I figured the Neumanns would give me exactly what I'm looking for in mix translation. However, the CLA-10's are tempting as well. I'm a bit tempted because I hear how well mixes translate on them, however, I will still have the problems with my room that the Neumann's can help with. Did you use the room correction with your Neumann's? What are your thoughts on this? I can get the Neumanns with the mic and room correction for the same price as active CLA-10's.
@@FutureClubNowroom correction doesn't completely solve the problems with the room acoustics. It only alleviates them to some extent. The key is to have the best adaptation in the first place.
I find my Genelec M030s are very comparable to NS10s in terms of frequency response. What you say about midrange shouldn't be a huge revelation to me, but it's becoming one. Over the last several days, I've removed some of the "surgical cuts" i've done just out of habit on bass, guitars, and vocals... and suddenly my mixes are translating. So maybe I don't even need to go for the CLA 10s since my M030s are pretty much in the same ballpark. Thank you for giving me something to think about. Like you, I also use headphones to check low end. Because my room is so small, i can't really crank the M030s too much so i have to keep them in a tight triangle so that I can hear the detail. It "shrinks" the image, but I can hear the entire stereo field.
Honestly, if I didn't feel like I was turning a major corner here in the best way, I'd probably look into your Pro Mixing course... because I didn't know where else to turn. I have 202 .ptx Pro Tools session files (!!) of a song i've been trying to finish mixing for 2 months. Finally... another video of yours (and one by Warren Huart) got me thinking the right way about midrange. This video seems like a re-enforcement of that idea. Thanks again.
Surgical cuts on a bass?? I've met many bass tracks that rather needed boosts than cuts, and the perfect basses just needed leaving them flat....
Well, sometimes have to be darken, cutting presence, trebles but very rare occasions (piezo f.e.)
That’s really not just about the ns 10 or cla 10 it’s about why you need a good a monitor and those informations are so so accurate 🎉 he explained exactly all what you should know about monitors in a home studio
The first time I've every understood what these speakers are about - thanks!!
Yep! i used to hate NS10s!
was always having translation issues when using my Focals solo6. Now with both pairs, way less surprising when i reference elsewhere.
I tried the Avantone and they did not fly with me, they didn’t sound new but cheap in the hi end. so i took them back and brought a used pair of NS10M.
🙌🏻
Which NS10's? STUDIO or non-STUDIO? I absolutely hate the non-STUDIO version, but i love the STUDIO version.
ns10m
So the Studio version with less harsh tweeters
How do you set the VTPC to mimic your original ns10’s?
would love an update on how they are treating you
The Sound of Hits
I appreciate the knowledge! Do you think you could go over recording clean and low gain guitars? Thanks.
You can get the originals for less than the clone. - Nobrainer. Make sure to get the NS10M STUDIO version, not the non-STUDIO
Thanks for the video, much appreciated. Is there a recommended amp to power the passive version of the CLA-10?
I still use my NS10M Studios that I bought brand new back in the day.
Hi Jordan pretty nice and good video ! Can I ask you what setting exactly did you ended up using on the VTPC to match the NS10 ??
amazing video! thnx :)
I've got the passive versions with the Yamaha 2500s Amp. I'm struggling to get used to them as I use Adam a77x's. Kind of gutted I don't have the "tissue paper control" (Where do you have them set?) as they are pretty bright! They sound ok at really low volume though and I've been using them to check my mixes while continue to mix on the Adams. I'm determined to do a proper mix on them at some point though and see how it comes out.
Thank you so much, I believe you can mix every genre with these cla10s eh?
Great advice but what's your opinion on the "mud" frequencies, do you cut and if so how much???
I've had my NS-10M Studio monitors since 1997. Can't mix on anything else. 🤟😊
They are hyped between 1kHz - 5 kHz, but it's the super fast transient respone that brings the magic.
Also because of the limited frequancy response they have great time-domain response and low distortion.
I've just had to buy a matched pair of tweeters to keep mine going. (one decided to pack up) Definitely worth every penny.
If you're mixing in a small room, or have your speakers close to a wall, it's probably best to use sealed speakers like the NS10, (or a modern-day equivalent) because ported speakers, especially rear ported, don't work so well.
Happy mixing! 🤘🤘
You nailed it! Transient response and time-domain response are fundamentally why these have been so successfully used to mix with for so many years.
I Love the NS 10 over 20 years, only speakers you need if you know what you are doing.
I have a pair of Avantone Mixcubes, could you mix let's say 90% of the time on them. And then just check low and high end on headphones or other monitors?
@Hardcore Music Studio where did you end up putting the stepped knob for VTPC? I’m considering getting CLA10As and wanted to get a good setting since I don’t have NS10s to A/B with, thanks!
Hi Jordan, good video, I’ve been using my NS10M’s since the 90’s. I’m curious to know if you set up your CLA’s using Sonarworks Reference ID and I was wondering what you use for monitoring when you are tracking? Cheers, Ricky
That’s it ….I might have to go buy a pair,I’m convinced 🤘🤘
I'm definetly a NS10 guy and use it always , but not a dedicated profesional. I use with a USA Crown D75-A with 120/220v transformer as I live in Spain. My isse is the Crown uses to a low buzz, not always but very often. Do you think it worth to buy an amplifier nowadays or directly som
eday replace with the CLA? Thanks for your videos!!
I'm a beginner and have been researching extensively ..and as i was realising the importance of midrange and which monitor to buy , then you posted this vid , .are hs versions similar ?
What settings did you end up with to have a similar vibe for the new cla 10s to match
NS10 guy. took me awhile to learn but now i dont even need to reference other speakers. The only thing about them is they do fatigue your ears but long listening on any system will do that.
Im new to mixing but have starte investing in gear and plugins past stock and a pair of tannoy cheap 70 dollar monitors. i picked up the yamaha Hs8 for black Friday but ive just discovered the Ns10/cla10 after spotting them in a couple videos. What is the main diff between the Hs8 and Ns10, which do you recommend for an acoustically treated room, and should i return the Hs8 and pickup the Cla10 for a Christmas deal? Thank you so much appreciate any responses & feedback - Johnny
Aren't the NS 10 designed with the Fletcher Munson curve flipped? So you mix the mids right. I've found a page on the net of a guy who found this out.
Should i buy Auratone 5c reissue...or Cla 10 ??Heard very very good thing about the Auratones also,that they translate super good ?!
I'm sold
Really good review. Thanks but I'll stick to my Presonus Eris E8 because I am happy with my high mix quality & translation 👍
The question is who’s mixes sounds better
Jordan.. get back with me when your 50 and still using NS 10’s for 15 to 20 years.. let me know how your ears feel. 😎.. although you make a good argument for midrange.. a mixer should be able to determine a good balance on whatever speaker they are comfortable with. It’s all about what material you are referencing on the monitors you choose.
Great video ! Based on your experience with the CLA10's, are there headphones that you could point to that would be an equivalent ?
So can you share your option on rear bass port vs front ports?
Pros & cons.
Also…do these speakers necessitate the use of a sub?
Please and ty
What setting did you finally have the “tissue paper” control at on the cla-10’s? On mine they’re currently maxed out. Gives me every detail from 2k up. But it’s hard to imagine the original ns-10’s sound like this lol.
I also own the cla10a’s and reached out to avantone and this is the message they sent me in regards to the VTPC settings:
There is actually no standard levels for vintage ns10s as they have aged to vary by about +/- =2dB in tweeter level over time which means you can have 2 units over time that are as much as 4dB different. That being said 3 o clock is roughly an average horizontal unit and at full is roughly a vertical unit
@@nine27 Thank you!
@@elonthebass6870 bet
I would like to see your opinion about avantone mixcubes, because you have experience with ns10s...
Please make a detailed video on Avanton Gauss 7 with sound comparison..... Thank you🙏
Great video! One question: what amp do you recommend to use with the CLA/NS ?
You mentioned alot that the juice is made in the midrange, and therefore one could kinda „ignore the high and low frequencies“. But are you really „ignoring“ these frequencies or do you still apply processing on highs and lows?
got some recently in love
I swear you have my Google search history, because I have a pair of the CLA10s in my wishlist on Sweetwater right now and a few pairs of NS10Ms on watch on Reverb. Thank you so much for this.
Why not put a low cut and high cut on the master while mixing? wouldn't that be the equivalent of these speakers?
Can I ask, for a more amateur bedroom mixer on headphones and such. Would you recommend trying to mix iwth a low and high pass filter eq on the master?
Are these monitors only for mixing? Or are they good all around studio monitors like for tracking and mixing?? I’m thinking of getting a pair
Hi Jordan from Italy ! What setting did you used on the VTPC to match your NS10 ? :)
you also get way more reflections in the highs and lows
I have a pair of HS7's. I've only ever mixed at home so I've nothing to compare them to. My room is tiny though, less than 10ft x 10 ft.
Spectre Studios made a video of the same song mixed on HS7, LP-6 and KRK Rookit 6 and the mix made on HS7 was the best. Though, not necessarily the best translation for mono and phone speakers in that case
I think that-s the same thought on headphones like hd 650, they focus a lot on mid range and that-s the point
HUH?
Thanks so much for the review! Really enjoy your videos. I've been eyeing these for a while. Curious, do you have a sub in your setup as well or do you check the sub 100hz on headphones or something like that, or maybe don't feel the need? Thanks again!
No sub - yes i check sub lows on headphones
@@hardcoremusicstudio Interesting, may i ask what genres you mix ? How are you finding the low end translation when using headphones for the low end ? Thanks :)
Thank you 🙏🙏🙏 it's amazing,💯💯👍👍
What power amp are you using?
have you ever tried KS digital monitors? I would like to know your opinion
thnx
the best monitors to mix on for midrange is auratones. Those ones in particular.
What if you shelf the high end and the low end on a pair of hs7 for instance? Could you get the same result?
Its mind-blowing: to see all these monster studios with million dollar equipment, and all this outboard gear, only to mix it on some NS 10's.
Hey, great Video! I'm new to mixing and bought after long observation the HS7's because I thought of them kind of a successor to the NS10's.
I hate and love them, because they're so loud in the midrange and are not pleasant to listen to. I first had the HS5 and KRK G4 in comparison. And it's true. I made better mixes on the HS5's, why I bought the HS7's. And I slowly get into the HS7 and they translate my mixes very well as I find, because I experienced the same what you've just shared.
I also was thinking about gettin the HS8s, because it's said they're more pleasant to listen to and produce better bass. But after seeing your video now, I think that option is out.
Now Im curious about those Avantones. How would you say are they different from the HS7s?
Thanks
What are the advantages of these vs Auratone 5c Mixcubes?
Sounds logical 👍🏼
I’m curious what your VPTC setting was? I have mine halfway at the moment.
Interesting, I've had ns10m's for about 25 years and never saw the model you have here with the logo upright and the tiny ports. Now that I'm looking , it seems to be the popular model. Curious as to if they sound different than the sideways ones.
I've always run an EQ and a sub with them.