AI in Melee is broken.
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- čas přidán 9. 07. 2024
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Last year, at Double Down, SluG pulled an insane upset vs the #1 player in the world. But he didn’t do it alone. Today we take a closer look at some of the ins and outs of the secondary Ice Climber, Nana.
song is "Hero Town" by @Vulf
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heh,heh,h,h,e,hhmmm ,,, bimg head nana
::)))
hehehehhee
hehe :3
Burger
*y u p* (i said that because big head nana said it)
cacaGODS won
I learned more about Nana from this 5 minute video than I have in 8 years of watching Melee
Fiction has a really good video on her if you're ever curious. Unlike most of his educational content, it's really well edited and has nice illustrations to go along with it.
Tbf most melee commentators would be 2 games through a bo5 by the time they were through saying all this, and that’s assuming they can project these helpful visuals directly into your brain to speed up the data transfer
@@michaelfradley6950 never mind the fact that most make commentators don't even know this stuff. I always end up muting the commentary when IC are on the screen because they just share misinformation or assume things that are wrong. I'm not blaming them for not knowing but it's pretty annoying when they try to act like it.
You should try playing it too. Melee is much more fun to play.
Same
Nana grabs you by the throat, smacks you once, and whispers softly in your ear, "Tonight. You," just before she vanishes in a puff of smoke... Truly terrifying.
I would never sleep again.
the level 9 bots are essentially frame perfect 9 year olds
That is an amazing description of them
Love how you blended your current design work/colors with these explanations. Great work as usual!
My heart breaks for HBox. Basically the Melee equivalent of "no one wanted to be my partner, so I had to partner with the teacher".
HBox would be more the type of guy to chose to team up with a CPU rather than with a mid to high level player. I'm sure dozens of people would have been happy to team with him cause he's good at the game and famous
@@wolizuka He's also just a genuinely cool and good-hearted person in a sea of controller smashers and shit talkers.
@PhrozenFox guy who just watched the emplemon doc says what?
@@PhrozenFoxbro fainted on stream after a popoff
what
dude you are so good at editing
High level stuff
Sluuuuurp
Actually though, the silhouettes and the nana mlem were distractingly good
So true, and it goes to the dumpster doing melee videos lol
@@mijhaelandressamaniegomuno28 so true
I love how, with Zain being so shook from the grab and it getting cut short, it seems like the only thing that prevented Nana from continuing to be a menace is the respawn she goes through where she’s forced to blip out of existence mid-attack to return to popo
So you're telling me that Nana alone solos the entirety of the Smash Gods?
Nana really grabbed this man, looked him in the eyes and said: "This ain't over. Imma kill you in my next life." And then disappeared
Striking fear into the heart of Zain.
3:11 I would be really interested to see if changing this (having Nana at level 9 always being the obvious) would meaningfully change how people have to deal with ice climbers
It would probably make it a little bit harder to get low% kills on nana, which could end up being relevant considering that killing nana quickly is a really effective strategy to beat icies for most of the cast
That’s what I’m thinking. Or at least have it be every 10%. As it is, you’re rarely going to get a Nana that grabs (120%+)
two other little tweaks could be to change the follow target for nana to the enemy if popo was in a screen/star KO, and changing the pathfinding AI so that Nana will slightly prioritize paths that get within range of the enemy so that she will attack a bit more often.
Edit: I reread this while watching a video of Baba is You, and I thought I was talking about characters from that game and got very confused
@@bastian_5975When the Popo be above 120%: Nana Is Grab
Yes because getting them split suddenly makes it 2v1 and level 9 AIs are effective in duos.
As a kid playing Melee, observing the CPU’s behavior was always intriguing. Fascinating deep dive here!
Every single day I miss SluG :(
me too buddy
What happened to Slug?
@@Kitth3n retired/is taking a break last I heard
I hope MOF is on the come up after that huge 3-0 on jmook
@@ashequestionmarkOh, is that all? Good for him then, he's touching grass :)
What an amazing video. This community sure blows me away sometimes. Very lucky to have creators like you.
you prolly already know him but asum saus is very similar and i think this guy definitely takes inspiration from him
After years of melee.. I never knew the CPU of Nana..very well done and graphic wise.
Its cool to see a video visualising the attack sensor ranges! I recently reverse engineered these tables in Smash 64 in order to improve Smash Remix’s AI for their new fighters. I wonder how the tables differ between games.
Great video, editting and explanation, very clear and understandable!
Also, I'm glad the music volume is on the same level as your narration, so I don't have to change it every segment of the video
Videos like this are part of what makes Melee special.
Great upload, stellar editing. Actually useful and fun information.
The editing was so good here, awesome job and great video
I was listening to a vulfpeck playlist when I clicked on this video. It took me a while to realize that it was also the bgm for the video and not my music app playing over the video lmao
First video of yours I’ve seen and I’m excited to see more. Great stuff man, this was super interesting and well made
I remember being a kid and knowing that lvl 9 Gannondorf was like the final boss of melee. I never knew until today that professional melee players utilize that as well. I must have played so much as a kid I just intuitively knew that like that was just a far more challenging character to play against.
Very interesting analysis video! Thanks for uploading!
I didn't know about a lot of this level moves stuff, & would love to hear more!
This is the best explanation of IC mechanics I've ever seen. Great job! Really love your videos
Good choice with the Vulfpeck! Love the visuals, editing and sound mixing, good work!
Not a melee guy, but the great editing, concise explanations, and good tunes means I spent the last half hour watching every video you have uploaded. Keep it up :)
One of the best Melee videos I've seen in a while. Great job.
Bro I swear every video you just get better and better, keep it up! :D
Absolutely delightful and insightful.
Can't wait for the next one!
When the title hit and you cranked up Hero Town I already knew this was gonna be a banger.
How/when do you decide on the song for each video? Your one on the Jmook recovery was so integrated I couldn't figure out which came first. This is easily the highest effort per-second Smash content currently being made.
Bro, this was awesome! I love learning new stuff about the game like this
these videos explain things well and are impeccably edited. keep it up dude! :)
Sweet visuals and great explanations. Here's a sub, you deserve many more
Welcome back. My favourite Melee channel on CZcams.
love the song choice! I never thought I’d hear this in the background of a video, I thought it’d be too distracting, but you just happen to be an excellent visual storyteller. awesome!
Nana doing what is effectively a pump fake before dematerializing is the most menacing thing I've ever seen in this game.
i discovered this in my recommended and im shocked with how great the editing is
Wow, this was such an incredible video. I learned so much here. Amazing stuff man, criminally underrated
Found ya from the GDIME #7 shoutout! Had to browse through a lot of comments to reach your channel but MAN it was worth it, these visuals are so good!!
p.s., The prints are really pretty and unique and there's even a hint of inspiration from the main man himself in there! Love to see it :D
So much good info presented so well. Idk how you do it, but it must take so much work
I've never seen such a video for melee, it's really amazing ! Gj dude !
this is insanely well produced and interesting! well done!
This is well produced! Nice work.
The graphic design on these transitions are top-notch 💯
1:46 This might have been the best single joke I've seen all month. Excellent pacing and style.
you always deliver with some sick shit brodi, big ups.
Great editing and presentation!
Awesome stuff as usual. Just bought a couple stickers too. Keep up the good work!
nana when popo is at 0%:
mmm crayons
nana when popo is at 140%:
SO THOU HAS CHOSEN DEATH
I don't watch much smash at all, but this was excellent presentation! I may have to check out more from your channel.
great video and i loved the vulfpeck as the music
Man, neat content! Awesome edit!
May I ask what tools did you use for editing? 😁
Very educational. Never knew about different moves being unavailable to the cpus at lower levels.
Absolutely loving your stuff. The art is sick but I wish there were higher res/more zoomed in images! I want to see what the Melee is hard poster says for example
good point, i’m realizing there’s not really a central place to find full-res images of the art. i’m going to look into putting those on the website, in the meantime if you go back a few months on my twitter media tab you can see them that way. the melee is hard one was posted on may 17th
@@MeleeMoments awesome, thanks for the reply!
Great editing, great music, great knowledge
Great video! It's insane that people are analyzing and playing this game this hard 22 years later.
Amazing editing 😊
Amazing stuff, keep it up
Melee and Vulfpeck, you sir have earned a subscription
Appreciate the Vulfpeck!
Amazing video. I think we’re all in agreement: Why didn’t any of us know this sooner? I’ve been picking up esoteric Melee knowledge from CZcams and forums for 10 years, and I never knew any of this.
Excellent production value
Great vid!!!
Perfect explanation!
great quality of videos !
Such a rad breakdown!
the goat uploads again
Very informative on how Nana's AI works didn't know that she increased her level by the amount of percentage Popo has
I also miss Slug :(
Amazing editing
Fascinating!
Amazing video, really well made! Keep it up please
What a beautiful video!
The slight UP music you played with the Luigi joke was fucking perfect 😂😂😂
holy shit, when me and the boys were kids, we would 1v3 the level 9, HANDICAP 9 coms. It was insane. We made it a game, we started at mario, beat him on every level like that, then moved on. Some smash moves have retained the names we gave them in fear as children. Gannon was one of the first true monsters we ran into. He would nail you with the "chicken wing" from out of nowhere and send you packing at like 40%.
Holy fuck i miss melee handicap just being a giga-roids buff. In brawl and later, instead of it being a buff, now the handicap applies to yourself, and all it does is increase your starting percentage.
I love the new visual design
That was. SPECTACULAR. I'm subbing right now
another absolutely incredible video, one of the best channels in gaming
good ole Vulfpeck always bangs
This 5 min video must’ve taken at least 10 hours… great job!
Ooo, this was **exceptionally** informative
The rapid short range attacking and frame-perfect inputs that lvl 9 AIs are capable of means that they tend to be much harder to fight if you use the strategies you would against a top level player, instead of simply exploiting how dumb they are about navigating the space. Peach in particular can be absolutely brutal and pull off 50% combos with alarming speed if you try and rush into her face and get really aggressive.
(Which was very useful for trying to figure out strategies with Roy that actually help his approach. For one, dashing into a side-B is infinitely safer than his standard dash attack, because the dash attack has a very short window for it's hitbox, and Roy's own hurtbox extends past the attack distance, meaning if you try to use it for approach he'll usually whiff AND run into an attack. Dashing side-b immediately halts his momentum and is a good opener for his combos; dashing side-b to grab to back throw to side smash is highly effective against the space animals. The terrible range and low knockback on his dash attack actually makes it much better as a mid-combo move than an approach.)
Worth the wait!
"here's where zain makes his crucial mistake" *proceeds to get pummeled 1 singular time*
1:47 I really liked that.
I can’t believe nana is rarely going to be able to grab, she legit going to stay around 1-5.
Slug, Popo and Nana it's the name of the album. Great video.
oh man im not sure if i ever saw the full sequence play though idk what I saw even though i learned so much 😢
HERO TOWN MOMENT LET’S GO
The only hero in this town is you for your song choices ❤
Dude starts out with Hero Town in the background you know I'm gonna give a like
Such a sick video
Anyone got a link to the 2v2 where Hungrybox is playing with a lv9 ganon?
Totally deserve a subscription!
"Nana will always recover towards Randall."
All hail the AI Overlord, Randall!
I like the new style my guy
Wow a new greatest youtube video of all time thats nuts
amazing quality wtf
SICK song choice. Amazing band.
Holy… I didn’t expect Nana of all characters to be so goddamn BROKEN
amazing video