Do USB Cables Make an Audible Difference (Kimber Kable Review)?
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- čas přidán 25. 02. 2021
- Do USB cables make a measurable or audible difference in the output of audio DACs? Let's test a number of them from generic ones to fancier Kimber Kable B-BUS cable.
Text reviews at:
KIMBER KABLE: Do High-end USB Cables Make A Difference?
www.audiosciencereview.com/fo...
Do USB Audio Cables Make A Difference?
www.audiosciencereview.com/fo... - Věda a technologie
I got attacked by headfi guys for saying I couldn't hear any improvement with the audioquest usb cable against the one that came free. The usual argument came in : "dude upgrade that headphone or upgrade that dac. It isn't transparent enough"
They are so far into it that reality was left behind long, long time ago. I remember when I first registered there and brought up the topic of blind tests. I was immediately told that was against the rules! That such talk can only occur in this little forgotten forum they have for such talk. It is like a forum setup to discuss how to cure people's illness but say that no doctors are allowed in there, nor any talk of what is taught to them in medical school! It doesn't help that they have built a big business there with tons of advertisers promoting such.
NoT ResOLvInG EnOuGh
@@johnyang799 :D :D :D
hear! hear!
Get new ears, those are not transparent enough! Get a new brain, that one is not resolving enough! 😀
Thanks for your videos. I spent 20 years tweaking my audio/video system. I finally came to the conclusion that wires never really mattered as long as the connections were solid and ground loops were eliminated. The room and the speakers make the real difference. Once I realized that I just sit back and enjoy my system.
Well said.
I realised that after 1 day
Just wait until your silver cables are burnt in, the detail!
I recently just bought a stand for my bookshelf speaker, now they sit almost exactly at ear level. And that surprisingly makes a lot of difference, probably more than cables ever could
@@Terra101 Chocolatey midrange! My wife heard the difference from the other room!
I’ve been making saxophone mouthpieces for forty years and used to make them out of different materials. I’d do blindfold tests with players who said they could tell the difference between them but never could when blindfolded. When we took the blindfold off and they saw that they got it wrong, they’d always say “but I still think it matters”.
So hard to convince people of reality. Good on you for conducting such tests.
@@AudioScienceReview yeah, exactly. For whatever reason people don’t want to know the truth.
Yeah, that's exactly right, about anything for that matter.
This is fascinating. I remember reading about this in relation to wine tasting, whisky tasting, high-end food tasting etc. It's always hilarious because it always wrecks any self-proclaimed expert's confidence in their sophisticated abilities. It seems that people 'really are' hearing/tasting a difference, but misunderstanding that many other senses (and beliefs) are being integrated into that subjective experience.
If they believe something sounds better, it will. Maybe that's why they still want to retain the belief.
@@AudioScienceReviewHave u read Freud's classic essay"The Uncanny"... It clearly refutes the science explains all narrative.. Its online.. Maybe it accords with ur own/friends/family expereiences...
I‘m sure you don‘t believe in any of those high end myths, but out there are a plentitude of folks who have no money to burn and no clue of measurement techniques. These kind of videos are of highest value and will increase the number of subscribers faster than a series of presentation of underestimated dacs ever can. Great work.
Horrible video. Instead of listening to this man's aberrations, listen with your own ear and you will see the enormous differences between a cheap cable and an expensive one. Only "audiophiles" here.
I am glad you find time to make videos so often :)
For those who are complaining about the channel and reviews like this one, saying they are repetitive, take a look at the channel subscription growth.
This channel has been in existence for 2 weeks and has over 6000 subs. It takes years for some channels to even break 500 subs.
People want this.
The folks who buy into and the manufacturers who peddle the snake oil stuff will hate this channel.
Indeed. There are thousands of videos promoting myths. When people search, they are going to watch a single video on the topic so we can't assume they watch the previous ones in sequence.
People will always side with the cheapest option for their wallet whether is true or not. It's being subjective, you'll see it (read it) under nearly every YT video, no matter what the topic.
Thanks for all your informative videos. I have over 20k on audioquest cables after watching your videos I got very disappointed with what the dealers made me buy where I could use cheap decent cables and get the same results. Just ordered a pair of mcintosh mc901 and again pushing me to buy 5k ea power cables but I said I'm using whatever power cord comes with the amps and I balmed you for it 😆. But thank you so much for honest advices which are coming from your honesty and educations and tests and not coming from someone who thinks about his commission. Thank you and can't wait to watch your other videos
Never go full Audioquest.
No shortage of snake oil in the audio industry - in my opinion there is no bigger con than expensive power cables or “audiophile:” fuses.
Interconnects that pass audio a different story but far better to spend big bucks on speakers and amplifiers.
@@Bob.martens Much cheaper to go full audioquest copies from Ali Express... My AQ Comet 2M x2 pair 114 GBP with batteries... Fools pay 3 grand for Western versions... I like being ripped off as long as its cheap. I'm happy
I would refuse to do business with anyone who tried to sell me a $5k cable of any kind, but particularly a power cable.
did you look at the cables on the amps at the dealer? maybe they are using the original cables that came with the amp. Krell strongly recommends that you do not swap out cables on their amps because the aftermarket cables are shit and they don't know what the amp manufactures need in a power cable.
Chris - "I can't recommend this cable enough."
Amir - "I can't recommend this cable."
Damn, Chris, you were so close!
Plot twist: Chris was trying to tell us viewers a hidden message.
Maybe it was poor representation.
Did he mean: I can't recommend this cable! Enough!
Here is a review on 2001 technical
movies ain't everything movies to me now are rubbish they ain't life (when living 12 years with my cat Sooty from kitten to 🙁 ) movies they ain't everything same goes with cinemas and home cinemas and trash movies like 2001 and loss of my cat Sooty and all you hollywood people make me angry cos of overrated rubbish like 2001 which is now banned in my THX cinema
czcams.com/video/IWL_LbY72sg/video.html
Never gonna recommend that cable. Can't not recommend it enough.
There is such a fine line between stupid and clever.
Excelent, objective and very entertaining review. Really enjoy it!!!
Good topic and well constructed measured data, thanks Geisha!
This drives the biggest controversy in audiophile history to the home. : DDD
Appreciate that you are not avoiding controversies and repercussions. respect! 🙌🙌🙌
Horrible video. Instead of listening to this man's aberrations, listen with your own ear and you will see the enormous differences between a cheap cable and an expensive one. Only "audiophiles" here.
really enjoy reading your website, and now even better on video, always very well explained. Congratulations ;-)
Thanks for providing such valuable content Amir.
Appreciate it. Thanks for the kind feedback.
You got me with the zoomed in graphs.
Great to see you've joined CZcams, the ASR website/forum is an amazing resource but YT should expand the audience considerably.
Thanks. It is definitely increasing the audience.
Horrible video. Instead of listening to this man's aberrations, listen with your own ear and you will see the enormous differences between a cheap cable and an expensive one. Only "audiophiles" here.
Thank you for sharing all this useful informaiton with us, mortals ! :)
Great video Amir! The knowledge you give to the world is priceless!
“So anyways, I took a Schiit...”
“...Modi 2 DAC.”
Their products better and no longer sound like Schiit, but I guess the brand name stuck around.
This is like teasing a cat with a piece of string but never letting them catch it, eventually they'll lose interest. We need an occasional "well, whatdayaknow, it actually does make a difference" video to maintain the suspense
... because things that do make a difference has a consensus, even among snakeoil believers. It is not interesting to hear that speakers make a difference. We agree on the parts of the chain that do make a difference, we have a disagreement where the "who cares" zone start. With some snakeoil beliefs, there is no bottom threshold of hearing.. that things that are too low to hear, becomes audible, if the noise is at -140dB and 6dB magnitude variance, you listen at -3dB and the +-6dB will be now audible.. Hard to explain because it makes no sense. But, we do know what does make a difference, those are not debated.
What you are asking is "we need a snakeoil that actually does work".. which is going to be a fools quest to find it. If it works, it is not snakeoil and in every single case, has been knowns AND the issue addressed decades ago. Snakeoil and audiophiles think audio engineers are idiots, that all this time, they have never noticed something huge, when the truth is that it has already been found and fixed, and whatever the issue we had, is well below our sensing capabilities by 2021.
It has all the hallmarks of pseudoscience, with the typical: our enemies are very, very clever, geniuses but also very very stupid. In this case, audio engineers are capable of making gear that audiophile can use to find massive errors that any competent audio engineers should've found, and that this happens at industry level, that every single device has been designed by deaf morons who are only accidental geniuses for being able to design it at all.
@@squidcaps4308 well i mostly agree with you, but a lot of highend gear is "highlysensitive" or so badly designed that moving the amp from the floor to a table makes an audible difference (5000€+ equipment), at that point cables do make a difference because the electronic is shit and reacts to the "objectively worse" cables in a manner that is audible...
not saying any of that is good or desirable, its just reality sadly
@@d4nte857 No.
@@rcheskin believe what you will
@Josh Gray So send him a cable that makes "a difference" to you. Put your money where your mouth is.
What a great video! Thank you very much!
Amir, your work is fantastic. Love the uploads. Your sarcastic humor is an added bonus too :-)
Nice one. Many thanks Amir. The kind of test that many of use are looking for. (And I am 'one of these guys' who bought a fancy expensive usb cable..... ) Will be nice to see some power cable and hp cable test.
Brilliant analysis and advices dear Amir👍 Similar analysis would be very interesting in regards to headphone cables.
and here we might see the difference - hopefully Amir will do the job - please.... ;-)
I will put it on my TODO list. :)
omg I love this series... finally someone to enlighten the sheep :) Whenever I get a notification I have a smile on me face:)
:) Pretty soon I need more tweak products to test!!!
@@AudioScienceReview I also loved the Genelecs 8050B review (was a bit worried to start watching amidst the debunking series, haha)- I had them years ago, very good well balanced product - now I got 8351s which are better of course. Most kudos for pre-pro measurements, getting rid of my Marantz 8802A soon... keep up the good work Amir! Thanks much
@@AudioScienceReview what is your opinion on burn in for speakers and amps? Don't know why, but it looks to me as a trick companies use to avoid people returning products they don't immediately like.
@@jaytorr6701 Your hunch is correct, but it isn't about not being able to return them, per se. The whole "30 days or money back" is the trick, it is just enough time that you get used to the idea, it is designed to build placebo effect and you get emotionally attached to the whole thing. In the cases where the sound does have some changed, like for ex cables with inbuilt filters, our hearing adapts and in few days, you will think the new sound is actually neutral.
Burn-in process is largely the same, it takes time and over that time, our reference is completely lost: even if it did work, how would you know since you can't compare to what it was 30 days ago... and NO ONE does level matched blind testing... Suggesting objective testing gets immediately attacks in audiophile forums.. Because that is what destroys ALL of those myths.
@@squidcaps4308 That's exactly what Amir could do. Record the response of a new speaker say once every week until the supposed recommended burn in. If response is the same, then another myth bites the dust. Surely someone has done it? But Amir is is probably the most appropriate person to convey the message.
Amir, thanks for the great content.
whenever i think about buying cables i come here and save my money for other things. Thank you...love this site
Great information and debunk again.
The explanations are excellent. Thank you!
Thanks again, clear, succinct and supported with evidence! Too many proponents of audiophile cables (accessories) of all sorts fall victim to the straw man fallacy, sometimes on purpose, other times because they just don't understand the salient points of a discussion. As someone else mentioned, I would appreciate a test of a basic fiber optic cable to an "audiophile" grade fiber optic cable. Thanks again!
My pleasure and thanks for the feedback. On fiber optic, do you mean Toslink audio cable or something else?
You comment it's ironically quite funny considering that toslink cables aren't made from fiberglass but plastic.
Hence they don't have the same bandwidth as real fiber glass optic fiber, this reduction in performance makes them unusable at long distances (internet distances) or as already stated for internet like bandwidths.
(Take notes that I'm not implying that these characteristics make tosslink cables unusable for audio related aplications, just internet ones)
So joke asides the reality it's that we have already a toslink, and an "audiophile grade optic cable", called fiberglass.
And I said ironically funny because you are making a joke about people that "don't get science" using an example that unironically demostrates that you also don't know what are you talking about.
World it's quite full of funny people, I'm glad.
Love it. Well done.
could you please test glass fibre optic cables ? love your channel makes my day when you post a new review
Thank you so much, please keep up the good work. Your approach is spot on. I did not know listening to music was going to be an educational experience. And it all started because of the extreme sound quality difference of a CZcams video with a vinyl album being played.
I have definitely heard a difference in USB cables: Between one cheap cable that was clearly garbage and was causing obvious and audible noise, and another cheap cable that did not 😸. I agree, re the Amazon Basics USB cables. I use those, and also some relatively inexpensive, but still overpriced, Pangea ones (because they look and feel nice, not because I think they have any impact on sound).
Of course they affect the sound. But he didn't do any listening tests. Just measurements of one or two particular variables which he found to be equivalent, but there are a dozen others he didn't measure, including the most important one, an actual listening test.
Damn! Your channel saved me a bunch of money. Thank you so much ☺️
Fabulous information, what I have been looking for, for years. Many thanks
Great to hear!
Horrible video. Instead of listening to this man's aberrations, listen with your own ear and you will see the enormous differences between a cheap cable and an expensive one. Only "audiophiles" here.
Thanks! Would be nice doing the same with optical cable :)
Awesome video! Please keep the debunking videos coming!!!
Horrible video. Instead of listening to this man's aberrations, listen with your own ear and you will see the enormous differences between a cheap cable and an expensive one. Only "audiophiles" here.
Thank you for these videos. I’m learning a lot about what really effects the sound. I’m looking to buy a new dac or streamer for my marantz pm8006.
Super!
Thank you so much for this video! I'm super excited to see you on CZcams! Please keep producing these types of informational videos and disrupt all the myths! :)
Horrible video. Instead of listening to this man's aberrations, listen with your own ear and you will see the enormous differences between a cheap cable and an expensive one. Only "audiophiles" here.
Keep it good work review on high price equipment
Only time a usb cable made a difference for me was replacing a faulty one lol.
I worked at a GM car plant (Detroit/Hamtramck Assembly) for 30 years in the IT department. The plant was 100% dependent on the data from the servers and the network to make cars. If for any reason the line stopped running it cost $50,000 a minute (USD). Needless to say there was a lot of emphasis on us keeping data flowing. It was a noise laden environment with hundreds of welding robots running 18 hours a day and thousands of Motorola DMR radios in constant use. Oh and the plant has it's own substation too. And yet the data still flowed. Rest assured that the 1's and 0's don't care what wire they go down.
LoL 😂 indeed
Oh my god man, You are on a myth debunking streak.😂😂 The last time i waited for videos this excited was while watching Game of Thrones.
:) That is high compliment! I don't know how long I can keep this up but will keep trying.
@@AudioScienceReview this particular video helped me in realtime because i was actually looking to buy a usb cable for my DAC.
Yeah. I was looking to buy an usb cable from China for USD20. Although not expensive but now I can save that money for other things. I’ll just stick to the cable from the DAC Manufacturer. 👍🏻😆
Thanks Amir.
You are on fire! Look how fast your subscriptions are growing! I hope you monetize your videos once you have 4000 watch hours. You deserve every penny!
We are well past that already. :) It is not a priority for me to make money from advertising. That aside, support has been fantastic and motivates me to keep doing videos.
As a total noob at high end audio. I have watched a load of your videos now. Based on your measurements I now believe most high end is mostly smoke and mirrors and a gallon of snake oil. I have given you a new title. You are a Wizard man. I bet a lot of the industry will not have you on there xmas card lists. How many normal people would hear a difference in blind audio tests. In normal v high end. Well as long as they are happy I suppose. Plus some are making a good living. I used to listen at high volume levels most of my life. Three years ago I got frightened a lot. In the last three years I have learned to listen to much much lower volumes than I used to and love it. So my ears have not repaired themselves. But my brain has been retrained. Keep up the good work. May you live long and prosper Sir. I trust you and your knowledge.
Thank You Amir.
Amazon Basics...the new audiophile reference.
Im so grateful to find a channel finally who doesn’t buy into the audiophool snakeoil bs…
Love your videos. Great educational information.
Can you do a video on headphone cables? Is it the same result as the USB cable?
Sure but need to get some cables to test with. I only have stock cables for my headphones.
Newsflash: If the product ends with *cable, it makes no difference over Amazon Basics.
As I suspected, thank you ✌😎👍
Merci, you are trust
Thanks, how much money will be save, just because this channel, great job
People on here have cracked on Zeos before, but he's said in multiple videos to save your money on expensive cables. Coincidentally, he had linked an Amazon Basics USB-A to USB 3 cable (which is the one that powers and sends data to my DAC) and said that if you spend more than $10 on them you're crazy. I then stumbled on your channel that gave me the numbers to prove it. Kizmet!
I've run in to a few bad ( not to spec ) usb cables ( they dropped the connection when moving a ton of data, even issues with a printer ). I did replace them with amazon basics and other cheaper but to spec cables.
I have though bought £20 USB cables for my DAC, not however, for improvement in sound quality but for the better looks and nicer build quality than the cable was thrown in the box. If it looks nicer...that's enough! The technical side is covered whatever cable. I have to say I've bought a lot of Amazon cables and they have all been really good.
Is there a full review of the Bifrost 2 Multibit somewhere? (I can't wait to see the numbers on that specific USB imput from Schiit)
Snake oil still sells well.
I once compared a Curious Evolved USB Cable to a stock cable that came with my printer, to a DIY USB cable that I made using $3 solder, and a few thin necklaces that my grandmother had in her jewelry box. I made sure that the necklaces didn't touch each other and I carefully plugged them into my DAC. I'm SURE the measurements would be different between these cables, but they sounded EXACTLY THE SAME! Then I went to my trusty Home Depot 12 AWG wire, and although it was very difficult to solder using my $10 soldering iron I tried really hard not to have any shorts. I tested everything to make sure it was fine before plugging it into my DAC. Once again, IT SOUNDED 100% EXACTLY THE SAME AS EVERYTHING ELSE! The lesson is simple. Use the cheapest printer cable that you can possibly find and spend no more than $5 on it. If you can find it in the bargain bid at Best Buy then even better. Plug that into your Mola Mola Tambaqui and laugh at the fools who are using 'so called' audiophile USB cable. They are only hearing SNAKE OIL!
You might have had a better chance with that story if it were just a little shorter without all the variables you threw in. But I believe you 😜🤣🤣
@@BumpNrun69 You'd better believe it! With the benefits of science and measurements you can have the same sound that audiophools get with their $400K systems all for less than $20 bucks! Science!
I have an Audioquest Forest 1m usb cable going b/t my desktop and FiiO X7 mk2 mp3 player while in USB mode. That in turn is hooked up to an Aune X7s, balanced OCC silver litz headphone cables, and Empire Ears Cerberus 3's. It's more resolving than any stereo system I've heard at any price; essentially my personal reference system. When I changed the no name USB cable I was using to the Forest cable, I honestly did not hear a difference. Regardless, I don't regret buying it b/c it was only $40, looks nice, is well built, and has taken on a lot of abuse from me accidentally kicking my desktop and jamming the USB cable at a 90 degree angle between the back of my desk. Didn't even flinch. But $40 is the most I'll ever pay for a UBS. What DID make a difference, was going from having 3 really cheap and skinny 10 foot USB cables all wired in series going from my desktop to home theater setup on the other side of the room. With that setup, I had random dropouts of sound every 20 seconds or so, and complete disconnects which required restarting my device to amend. I went to a single 30 foot shielded thick USB cable from a reputable audio company for $25. It reduced the problems by 3x, but didn't completely prevent them. So I bought a Schiit Wyrd. I know. But wait - it actually helped. Upon using the Wyrd, with its onboard USB power supply which throws away the 5v power coming from your USB source, and it reclocking feature, sound dropouts and disconnects of my FiiO X7 were reduced to once every 2 - 3 hours of continuous listening. It really did work and made my long range USB setup usable. However, I did not notice a sound improvement using the Wyrd at point blank range with a 1m USB cable. So, it seems that the longer your USB run, the higher quality the cable should be (thicker gauge, purer copper, better dialectric material, better shielding, better twist geometry, etc...), and the more hardware you will need, such as reclockers and 'decrapifiers' . But at close range, anything UL certified will likely be just fine.
I use an old laptop on a dock as my entertainment station with a 5m (16ft.) USB cable running towards the DAC and a CAT5e internet cable running along it. I do have plans to replace it with a mini-pc and a wireless keyboard so I can shorten the cable runs and reduce interference but it still sounds good. I did notice a slight difference in sound when playing a FLAC rip of a cd over ASIO versus the same cd in a transport and hooked up to the same DAC but it was almost impossible to hear. And no, I haven't done a double blind test with it yet.
$40 no big deal. I live in a first world country and that could feed me for a week!
Sir, I wished you had joined youtube years ago, It would of helped support your work. Great insight on a complex subject. You are definitely encouraging youngsters to study about the realm of Sound. Thank you for all the reviews on ASR over the years, I really appreciate them.
Thankyou for this, I would like to know do the materials or type of metals used to make a cable effect the measurements ? For eg- Silver vs copper or tin etc.
we need some headphone videos from you on this channel. You need to shake up the world of hp's on youtube. lol.
I have a bunch of material to do videos on headphones. I just worry about how many people will have a heart attack over it in youtube land. :)
@@AudioScienceReview Let the heart attacks begin ;)
A video review of the Bose QC35 II would go against the headphone grain alright. That said, headphones are probably the most subjective item that Amir reviews regularly (and he admits it). Dacs and Amps are very objective, speakers a little less, and headphones significantly less than that.
@@AudioScienceReview worry not Amir, we want to see, please... ;-)
@@AudioScienceReview Should be okay if it's well-communicated. A lot of people don't understand why loudspeakers should be flat but headphones should not be (i.e. Harman curve). And it's still an active area of research, so we don't know if the current Harman curve is really the absolute most ideal target. In some ways that makes headphones more exciting, because no matter how it measures, you can't escape that flavor of liking things better. Best example for me, the Shure SRH440 measures closer to the Harman curve than my AKG K371, but I still much prefer the latter.
thanks for making a video with an expensive cable compared to a decent one and not the cheapest cable you could find on ali express.
I have some very broken in vintage usb cables for sale. They have excellent color, timbre and ambiance. One BTC each. Takers?
There was a time before Fahrenheit invented the thermometer. Temperature still obviously existed before that instrument. Over time, we have learned much about atmospheric measurements, and now we can measure temperature more precisely but more important is that we measure so many more things. We have also learned about what we as human beings are sensitive to. We have begun measuring visible light, but we have also begun measuring infrared and x-ray. While I can't see these, they still impact my body - and not in the same way. Obviously the thermometer still gives us a very important and very real measurement, but now nobody looks up the temperature before going outside, we look up the RealFeel or whatever branded, proprietary calculation of weather service you use. Similarly, it's been recognized already and should be more so that frequency response is not so critical to human hearing - so many people love very uneven FR graphs. Adding on a few other measures helps - it contributes to truth - but it is so far short of the whole truth. There are many, many facets to the human experience beyond what can be scrolled through in a few minutes. What does a human being actually hear? What about the differences between two humans? Funny we don't have time in this video to get into psychoacoustics (which is actually the core of this debate - what do we people actually hear?) Trying to reduce the human sensorium into just a handful of measurements is, quite frankly, unsophisticated. We must be advocates for complex thinking. We need instruments like oscilloscopes, but those do not answer the question at hand. The instruments can be deployed in the study of physical phenomena, and those measurements can be mapped to the experience of the human being, but the human being itself is the thing we need to measure and understand.
Quite a philosophical muddle you've gotten yourself into here. If the "complex thinking" you're promoting does not have a base of symbolic logic, you're on a weak foundation indeed.
@@Mrch33ky What do you mean by; If the "complex thinking" you're promoting does not have a base of symbolic logic, you're on a weak foundation indeed.
A mind is an amazing thing. It is extremely adept at fooling its owner into believing anything. That's why we need objective measurements, data and science, like what you are providing. Thank you!
Well said. Thank you.
It seems ASR is extremely adept at fooling some people.
@@jsmctch Oh please. Get over yourself. Anyone is free to do a blind test of any of these cables, just as Amir suggests. Document and record the test! Publish the results. Let others peer review it. If the difference really was as SIGNIFICANT as is claimed, anyone should be able to pass this test with flying colors, easily.
Do you believe in god by any chance?.
@@thegroove2000 I was raised Catholic, but I am a scientist. I believe religion serves a cultural purpose, but it's not based on facts. That's why there are so many religions throughout the world, with their own sets of beliefs, including various gods. People have a natural need to believe in things that are fanciful or magical in nature.
Amir, I have a question... Is your AP providing the input signal for the USB cable? If not, what is?
Also, have you ever done testing on early USB DAC input implementations? In other words, maybe it’d be worth testing a 12+ year old DAC to see how the behavior has changed.
No doubt there have been improvements in implementing USB inputs in audio, especially with regard to noise rejection.
Hey Amir, I love your site, I purchased my latest DAC the SMSL SU9 based on your detailed measurements.
I do find the on going debate about exotic cables quite entertaining, coming from a music production bacl ground I know that measurement is important in being able to describe a cables performance, and to be honest, if there was any weight to the very expensive cables sounding better, then we would have started using them in studios a long time ago, but we don't, and the good old balanced cable is all we need.
But I have been thinking, that cable guy you referenced in the video, I've been watching his series of videos on speaker cables and he claims he'll be able to identify cables with a 10/10 success in a forthcoming video. He claims he can hear the note decay differences in cables, well this has got me thinking, irrespective of the outcome of his "experiment", would a set up with a sensitive enough mic, high precision amp in an anechoic chamber ever be precise enough to do a null test on speaker outputs (averaged in some way possibly) using different cables, to prove once and for all the soind coming out of the speaker is not measurably different when different cables are used ?
You could even go as far as to show how different amps and speakers do have a measurable effect on the sound and by how much, and then show if changing the cables makes a comparable difference (which owe know it wouldn't)
Amazon Music HD sounds the best with Amazon Basics cables - maybe Kimber needs to launch a streaming service?! ;>)
:)
Thanks for responding to my comment, I meant Toslink.
Ah, then that is easy to do.
@Audio Science Review
Thank you, Amir for caring enough to take the time to produce and post these videos and this information on a more popular general forum (CZcams).
It's difficult to get people that I refer to ASR to actually go to and read these tests and data on an enthusiast forum that they are not familiar with.
But just about everyone has no problem going to CZcams and clicking a link to watch a video. 👍👍
Can you do a test on footers too? I saw someone trying to claim his new diy needle bearing footers improved resolution on his DAC. I myself am not a believer, but I'm happy for this individual enjoys his music more lol
I smile every time I see a new video from you. Thanks so much for the ride - very educational and enlightening as well as beneficial to the wallet! I would be very interested to hear what your personal speaker/headphone listening system is composed of. And by the way, about those unidirectional digital cables from Audioquest.......
Thanks for finding my videos interesting. On your question, this is my own 2-channel music system: www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/review-and-measurements-of-lyngdorf-roomperfect-eq.6799/
On headphone/desktop system, I use an RME ADI-2 DAC V2 as DAC and headphone amplifier. For headphones, I go through a lot of them. Right now, I am using AKG K371. Sometimes I switch to Dan Clark AEON RT Closed. See review here: www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/dan-clark-audio-aeon-rt-review-closed-headphone.19393/
@@AudioScienceReview Thank you so much for the link. It is much appreciated.
at it may affect you is the quality of the connector, and it wont be affecting sound but they have a shorter life span. Shielded cables are used in areas where there is a lot of electric noise and a home studio/entertainment center won't have a lot of noise unless you put the cables next to big industrial motor cables in your living room.
Brilliant video. Finally someone says the obvious. Trust your ears. Trust your judgement. The same applies to visuals too. Too many defer to technology these days rather than using their own judgement. Try telling them about the limits of human perception and that’s when you really hit the brick wall. Thanks for your blast of common sense
I don't quite get it - the bits that are received by the DAC are the same regardless of the USB cable right? And doesn't the DAC reclock the data so jitter from the cable should not make a difference?
Right, but USB cables also carry analog 5V power, and Amir said that if your DAC uses USB power to operate (like the old Schiit he tested), the noise comes from there, not the digital bits. Still, a well designed USB powered DAC would show no noise, and even on the Schiit it was far below audibility.
Great reviews once more! Now I look forward for a reviews of my Curious Evolved Regen USB DAC cable (mine is 200mm long and cost is US$ 200.00) compared with Amazon Basics USB cable. Good job!
Would this be true for HDMI cables also?
This is fantastic Amir. Could you please test and measure fibre optic cable without copper to see if that makes a difference. Thank you for your insight.
I want to know this also. Especially after plugging a 15 foot hdmi 2.1 cable(very thick, presumably...lots of copper) into the front hdmi port of my avr. I have this cable to run REW from a laptop. I can't plug the laptop power cable in anywhere in that room, because I have MANY outlets on the same circuit and get a ground loop. So..the only interference added is the hdmi cable, and I get a slight hiss in the speakers. I have all the same cables in 3 foot variations, but these ones are braided counter-clockwise, and I dont have a problem with any of them. No problems with the cheap monoprice hdmi 2.1 6 foot cables either, but I would like to get at least one high quality cable to go from processor to display.
The 3 foot cables I mention are zeskit. They are braided copper up to 10 feet. The 15 foot one is not braided. It is UL rated, thicker than most of my power chords, and introduces audible noise.
I only have the 3 & 15 foot sizes.
This is all I know, so I would like to know this about hdmi cables as well. I wonder if video quality can be effected, although I think video is much less sensitive than audio.
I still use the 15 foot cable every now and then, because it is only audible from a few inches off the tweeter, and when I am using it, I'm usually just level-matching things, working on the bass in my room, seeing how placement/treatment effects things.
But because of this, I would like to find a good alternative. Problem is they are so damn expensive. So a video to help understand would be great. Someone send Amir a really expensive cable to test and I'll send him a 3' and 15' zeskit!
optic cable for audio transmission is basically great, I don't think there should be any significant upgrades
No need. Fiber optic transmits packets of digital that either arrive or they don't. USB is different because of the 5V that is part of the system that may or may not be used by the DAC. optical cable doesn't have voltage applied to it in any way, so there is nothing to be concerned about. But I suppose Amir needs to measure that to prove it to the doubters, LOL.
@@tonygutermuth9347 I thought he was talking about hdmi. Fiber optic vs copper
Nice one but the truth that bits are bits stands. None of those cables changes one bit. Sure the noise can be on but the data is still intact. This is important.
You said it much more succinctly than I. I think this point needs clarification, before the audio magic crowd misunderstands or misrepresents what Amir is saying.
@@vinnytube1001 I can see it my eyes: "Amir confirms USB cables will make music better" and that is not true at all but words can be twisted easily :P
@@Thevikingcam Or just "even the objectivists agree that bItS iS BiTs Is A mYth!!!111"
@@vinnytube1001 Hello from the future, you guys ended up hitting the nail in the head, just came from reddit to this video, one dude completely misinterpreted it, bought a 1k cable and posted a review, he was using this video as "proof" that it makes a difference.... All that while using a externally powered dac.
@@TheBotinha93 Sigh. It was bound to happen.
good job but you need to do waterfall-meashures to sheck out filtereffects vs overtones
Thank you so much for your reivew - realy nice to see your scientific approach to things instead of "statements" from some third party often on the webpage of the manufacturer, and also so many channels were indivituals are speculating and trying to explain what the hear (or don't hear), and from that send out in the cosmos some statement that this or that is so much better. Do you in any of your videos show how you use the oscilloscope to do those measurement? I would be so interest (and hopefully others) to see how one does this. I bought an oscilloscope just the other day (4x channel one, with two signal generators), but have no "hands on" knowlage on how to use the unit (activate it's "powers") to test my hif-fi equipment to "see" the performance, and do some testing between different setups of my equipment. Thanks again for a great channel!! Regards, from Iceland
Horrible video. Instead of listening to this man's aberrations, listen with your own ear and you will see the enormous differences between a cheap cable and an expensive one. Only "audiophiles" here.
Selling USB cables for $20k is a great retirement plan. I think I might go into the audiophile cable business. Lol
No one has ever lost money underestimating the intelligence of the American public.
@@zackschindler8334 Russ Andrews is a British company.
@@Safetytrousers Oh great. Do they advertise that since they measure them in metric sizes that they sound better than imperial cables?
@@zackschindler8334 No, it's that idiocy is not restricted to the USA when Russ Andrews manages to stay in business.
Please test USB reclockers. Thank you
Speaking of USB, I am curious if there is a measurable improvement in noise/distortion/etc. with Schiit's "Unison USB" interface implementation in its DACs. They make a big deal about it and have brought this to the Modi 3+ in the past couple of months. If I had one to send to you, Amir, I would. But, I wonder if there is a significant performance difference between the Modi 3 and Modi 3+ with this new proprietary USB interface.
I have reviewed the Modi 3+: www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/schiit-modi-3-review-stereo-dac.18480/
I am not seeing any audio improvement using Unison USB. I think it was a challenge they took on to see if they can do it and they did.
I have found Lenovo ThinkPad business laptops, regardless of generation to have the least amount of noise (inaudible) on the USB connection. I discovered this with my cheap Behringer USB audio interface. With my Dell Latitude, it had an annoying hum when recording with the microphone. On the ThinkPad, nothing at all. It is very clean. I am not sure why, but I recommend these Thinkpads. They seem to be well designed.
What about isolation from ingress? Was any sort of full-spectrum noise producing device placed near the cables?
Thank your for this one! Could you make a video about DAC/AMP, specially the üprtable dongle solutions? I've tested different portable solutions and cant tell any difference. If I read the reviews, people talk about day and night differences? That topic is really confusing and is there any scientific way to show audible differences?
Cheap printer cable vs a chord c usb -
I can hear a difference in an a/b test. Theres is more focus on the stereo image, instruments are placed differently, more accurately, the vocal is more transparent. These differences are easy to pick out for me. It isn’t placebo when a trumpet is far right with one cable and then off centre to the right with another or when a short breath cannot be heard with one but can with another.
Im sorry if this upsets anyone but its what I’ve experienced.
Im someone who is a total cheap skate with hifi too, i love building great second hand systems for next to nothing so spending on a cable isn’t my game.
So you measured jitter in the form of noise? What about timing of transients?
Does an externally powered dac make a difference in this regard?
Hi Amir, good video. Have you tried on some expensive DACs? Thanks.
Sir, I would like to ask you to perform one or two subwoofer reviews, for example in a couple of different price brackets.
If you watch the video on Vinyl Attack of when Chris went to visit Danny Richie at GR-Research, he describes how he heard the effect of a change Danny made but didnt tell him what he’d done until afterwards. All he did was reverse the direction of a USB cable. The other thing they did which neither of them had wanted to believe would be a thing, was using something to raise the speaker cables off the floor. Which everyone following ASR will already hate me for saying.. but (if you watch Chris’s video) they were both surprised to find an effect. I don’t doubt that some things can have an effect in systems that surpass mine and I have no problem whatsoever admitting that Danny’s rig is way ahead of my Linn KABER active
system. I would relish the opportunity to hear it myself.
Those USB cables with loose braided coverings can make some noise when they rub across certain fabrics. You'd have to be listening to some pretty quiet stuff to hear that though.
Ha!!!
SINAD with Kimber USB: 120.516
SINAD with basic USB: 120.523
So, there *is* a difference, Amir, you're busted! 😆👍
Yes. Golden Ear Audiophiles can hear this difference.
@@kevonmanuel I did Ethan Weiner's noise-audibility test. In a loud song, I can't even hear noise at around -80.
@@vinnytube1001 If you have the means, reduce good quality 16-bit (or 24-bit) music down to 10-bits (with proper dithering and noise shaping) and compare with the 16-bit/24-bit original. You would be surprised what those last 6-bits (of 16-bits) get you (hint, absolutely nothing!). The 9-10 bit threshold is where differences become audible (and I am talking with good quality non-compressed to hell music).
Amir should really do a video showing how much "worse" 10-bit sounds than 16-bit, it would freak everybody out!
Outstanding!! Another great testimony of truth. To all who hit the “thumbs down” button... it must be dark where your head is.
Horrible video. Instead of listening to this man's aberrations, listen with your own ear and you will see the enormous differences between a cheap cable and an expensive one. Only "audiophiles" here.
Could you please clarify once and for all the digital volume control effect on sound quality?
For example, how much dynamic range is left if you listen to sensitive headphones on 4% or 10% volume using an Apple USB-C headphone dongle which only supports 48kHz 24 bit sound?
I keep wanting to do a research project on that topic but have not had time. But yes, it is an important topic to quantify as there are so many different ways to change the volume control.
Are headphone amplifiers almost a 100% transparent? For instance a smsl sh8s?
Kinda surprised you didn't refer to the Review and Measurements of Wireworld Starlight 7 USB Cable where you showed significant reduction of mains harmonics with the Topping D50 for instance.
coz it doesnt support his narrative :)
I did originally. It would have made the video too long so at the end I decided to not include it. I may do a stand-alone video on that in the interest of full transparency.
@@amirnasrinmohdtaib49 Not really. I showed differences already with different USB cables.