The Rise and Fall of the EAST: Yasheng Huang in Conversation with Orville Schell
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- čas přidán 15. 11. 2023
- NEW YORK, November 13, 2023 - Yasheng Huang, Epoch Foundation professor of International Management and faculty director of Action Learning at the MIT Sloan School of Management, discusses his new book, “The Rise and Fall of the EAST: How Exams, Autocracy, Stability, and Technology Brought China Success, and Why They Might Lead to Its Decline,” which explores China's shift from dynamism to severe stagnation after the Keju was introduced, and considers the lessons these historical patterns might offer for China's current path. Orville Schell, Vice President and Arthur Ross Director of the Center on U.S.-China Relations at the Asia Society, moderates the discussion. (1 hr., 29 min.)
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Why would China adopt American system when the American system doesn’t even work well for itself? No one system fits all but the combination of different systems would be better for individual countries with unique cultural and historical backgrounds and stage of economic development.
Democracy may not be the best way to solve the problem but the disaster caused by dictatorship is countless.
@@user-gv6tr1dr8m The US is the biggest control freak and dictator to the world in large not China. China is taking care of its own citizens according to China's own situations that has far less negative impact to humanity than what the US has done negatively impacted the the world. Why people don't talk about how much the US plays double standard toward to China and other countries? If the US is so free and democratic, then why it suppress the voice of communist in the US? Why it would jail and punish those who against American system and ideology? Why the US government still consider Julian Assange and Snowden are most wanted? Why the US government doesn't allow the demonstration to Capital Hills but supported and even sponsored unlawful and extreme violent riot happened in Hong Kong? Why people in the US cannot express anti-Israel but encourage anti-China propaganda? Why the US government and UK government banned Confucians Institute, a cultural organization that to promote Chinese culture and build bridge between the people of the US and China? Is that the freedom of cultures and political ideology? what are they afraid about if the American system is so good and right?
Excatly. USA and western system is demoncrazy. And USA UK and eventually AUS will face its stark corrupted systems UK already dying. Usa already decayed and rotten inside. Australia due to corrupted politics is going same path as USa/Uk…aukus is not good for australia as it will corrupt and indebt everything and so many people so the masses will lose on public service…and will become like america.
The problem is, when the so called dictatorship is outperforming the democracies on improving people's lives, you have to start questioning things.
One of the reasons why the US system hasn't worked as well in recent decades is precisely because of the trade, offshoring, globalisation etc. So to no small extent due to the trade with China. Which has made some rich and others poor. Of course this is not the only cause of the inequality. But a major one.
Yasheng Huang is brilliant. MIT must be a great place to study.
Being brilliant and an idiot is a thin line.
I think every country should learn from the US and follow the US’ political system by the letter. The benefits are overwhelming. Here just a few:
1. Your government will be in perpetual paralysis. The political party not in power will do everything possible to undermine and obstruct the party in power. Who needs a competent government after all.
2. Your people will be divided. At least 1/3 of the population despise if not hate the next 1/3.
3. Your politicians will spend virtually all their time campaigning for the next election cycle when they are not scheming to destroy the other party.
4. You’ll be able to have 800+ military bases around the globe. How cool is that!?
5. You’ll be able to have aircraft carrier groups and nuke subs at your disposal. You can send them patrolling in all corners of the world and kick butts.
6. You’ll be able to confiscate other people’s money and treasures safely kept at your financial institutions at any time. Free money you know.
7. You can print as much money as you wish and when you wish. The suckers out there just can’t have enough of it.
8. You can invade and occupy any country whom you don’t approve of. Nobody would dare to say a word less stop you.
I can think of a 100 more reasons but these should be sufficient to convince any ambitious leader looking for a successful model.
still better than communism
@@Romper45 Nice Derangement Syndrome . Communism doesn't exist anymore.
let's not forget the 300+ biolabs around the world as well; i believe there are 48 in ukraine alone. They also get to lie themselves into wars and conflicts in iraq, afghanistan, libya, syria, serbia, sudan, yemen, vietnam, korea, in countries all over south america, africa, etc.
but china's the great evil country in the world!! even though western countries have either invaded china or got to destroy chinese people in their backyard (e.g. in korea and vietnam) since 1839 - for nearly 200 years!
Non sense. White americans are terrified of communism because they are scared that once they share their wife with the black neighbours then there's no going back. @@Romper45
Excellent points.
This is the professor who predicted india will surpass china 20 years ago. That did not happen.
🤫
Shhh… a new Gordon Chang is being born…
India will surpass both China and the US. Why? Impending de-dollarization or currenty reset (fiat to pegged) by 2025 which also means de-coupling from China. India is alraedy the fastest growing economy for the past 2 yr. If you look at history, INDIA was the largest economy and richst civilization for thousands of years until 19th century or until European colonialists started looting it. China was not even in the scene or a distant second until 16th century according to ANGUS MADISON's 20 yr research on world economy for the past 2000 yr. His book " World economy: a millennial perspective and historical statistics" says it all.
😂😂😂 what do you expect from such a prof 😂
This is just a slight step down from gordon chang.
Somehow I'm seeing double 🤣
Don't listen to all this professor. Listen to Deng Xiaoping.
thank you Yasheng Huang
Just another Gordon Chang in a more polished narrative.
Like to see him have a live debate with Prof/Diplomat Kishore Muhbubani
One of the biggest problem of Muhbubani is that he made close to ZERO regard about Chinese economic system (in fact he self-claimed to be a Marxist in his 2020 book Has China Own which is one big bias of him). The problem of state owned enterprise as Huang points out is the incredibly low efficiency which do not happen/largely reduced in the West by private enterprises. The sheer rise of China is that it has four times the population of the US. If china could reach any degree of the human potential the way the US can, the norm is that China should have absolutely dwarfed the US instead of still catching up in terms of GDP. Even after taking into account that the Chinese currency is undervalued and the GDP in terms of PPP in China is higher, it does not change the fact that china is extremely weak at high end such as academic research and artificial intelligence. I can not even imagine the technology innovation and groundbreaking academic research China could be producing given that the growth in these fields is already strong under such heavy suppression. Frankly for each bit of freedom the Chinese people get, they can easily surge a huge chunk of innovation. The problem is how much is Xi willing to give (though I definitely don't want to the see the shock therapy in the USSR when they went so radical they don't even have the country anymore).
@@blankspace1126 I agree with some of your points but strongly disagree with others. (i) Private Public Enterprises balance and (ii) Innovation. Lets agree to disagree as this is not the correct forum for you and I to debate. However i appreciate your insights. I am not a strong fan of neo capitalism as I do not agree with the trickle down effect based on real country specific statistics I have collected over the last 30 years this public enterprises still has a large role to play.
I'm so happy I don't live in "multipolar world" and have drinkable tap water at home. :)
@@PasserMontanus Then you are living on a different planet because we are already in multiple polar world at the moment. Denial is a start. Look around where you are at the moment and see which countries are making the products that you see.
@@silafaupaulmeredith7251 I think blankspace1126's been living under a rock for 30 years saying state owned enterprise is incredibly low efficiency when China's state owned companies give direction to and sometimes lead entire industries. And to say that the sheer rise of China is that it has four times the population of the US? This makes no sense, look at India? His/her arguments are logical fallacies. You're right, I'm wasting my time debating here.
Yasheng Huang was wonderful at the end of the video, political analysis then economic analysis, country analysis, and why reform is the most logical path for eliminating problems.
i finished high school only and i know this too.
Even if they "reform" they cannot be trusted.
He is rubbish. Basically, it is regurgitating what the stupid and closed-minded west like to hear.
Very informative discussion. Thank you.
Great interview. Thanks
This was total western propaganda crap!!!
@@SPECIALTRADER1good for you! The struggle 😊
This guy's like the Gordon Chang of the east haha
the title should be "The Rise and Fall of the West"
It is an insult to compare Dr. Huang with Gordon Chang, as Dr. Huang really understands the Chinese history and has the knowledge and ability to explain it to the west, where is Gordon is very biased and tries everything to smear China, and often uses false accusation and makes up things.
@accountantthe3394
Yes he is. I heard some of his arguments 10 year ago and they didn’t end well. Chinese government has done most thing right to put China in a spot light that she is now. These fools still want reform in China to destabilize her and bring chaos and hells to her people.
He always predicts China will be collapse that western countries expect, but the results are…… sitting in a office of MIT, data can not give you all answers😅 You lived in old China before but you are not learning from a new China😂
He will continue to do so to keep his place 😂
I don’t think any kind of system whether democratic, autocratic or otherwise can work optimally on its own. Who wants to be told what to do by the state? The state needs to take decisions on our behalf and levy taxes and so forth, but after that it’s up to people to want their society and the world in general to work for the benefit of all. Whether that comes from religion, culture, or just a sense of personal responsibility might not matter. I don’t mean responsibility as blame, but of knowing that each of us makes a difference in the world.
Why Xi did not go to the democratic way of reform, he learnt that the dismembering of the Soviet Union. Therefore, as the leader, he will not go that way. His believe in the communism as a better system than Capitalism led him to take the path as it is now. As the limitation of the American political system in its own right, the same limitation goes with the current Chinese system.
@xieccs
If China would go fully democratic, she will not as dominating as she is today. US will have nothing to fear cause US would have controlled China with every election. People are very ignorant to even believe that US want democracy for the good of the Chinese people.
i think you are right. not many get this point
Before anything, do Xi Jinping care about separation of power and accountability as vital to Chinese state? Or he is simply power hungry? We would not know for sure.
If you would have watched the whole video before commenting you would have heard him mention Russia as a negative example and a reason to do gradual reform.
Thank you excellent discussion..
thank you Dr schell for a refreshing introduction of Dr Huang.
Great conversations. I learn alot
This was total western propaganda crap!!!
Excellent!
This was total western propaganda crap!!!
@@SPECIALTRADER1 Try to go live in China.
Great talks, but disappoint ending, as China will never go well with the US, even it knees down, as US is wakening and view China is an enemy, so China has to find a way to not go directly against US, but develop capacity until it has the strength to compete with US.
You are looking at a people who kill others based on 1) the person's intellect/education or 2) the person's ownership of property or 3) the person's "excessive" income/profit
The government once united must divide. Once divided it must unite.
😂 won't be wrong right?
Wonderful guest. Wonderful review of lost beautiful moment in the 1980s, from Cui Jian to opposing op-eds in the People's Daily, elections in country district seats, etc.
Prof.Huang said in another interview that he's grandfather was aming 57 guys who founded the CCP.
Dry interesting.
Hello, how can they miss Singapore's late PM LKY! Deng came to seek advice from him! China & Singapore are good old friends!
LKY predicted that Sri Lanka will be an economic powerhouse. It's bankrupt.
Indian companies have invested 60 billion USD into Singapore which in turn invests 50 billion USD into India. Btw India is the 2nd largest investor into the UK economy after the US. LKY didn't get this.
@Rapture77 Lol, Singapore is realistic. Politics can changed and uncertain and LKY is not God. China is different! By the way, We remembered how UK treated Singapore in the past and UK is not the main market! It is U.S not UK!
Wait... didn't I hear him predict that india is going to surpass china 20 years ago because democracy is such a better system? The china bust guys are always busting their own predictions.
India will surpass China. Why? Impending de-dollarization or currenty reset (fiat to pegged) by 2025 which also means de-coupling from China. India is alraedy the fastest growing economy for the past 2 yr. If you look at history, INDIA was the largest economy and richst civilization for thousands of years until 19th century or until European colonialists started looting it. China was not even in the scene or a distant second until 16th century according to ANGUS MADISON's 20 yr research on world economy for the past 2000 yr. His book " World economy: a millennial perspective and historical statistics" says it all.
India said the same thing 20 years ago and it didn't happen... @@indianmilitary
Dynasties we're speaking of ?
Best talk on China so far!
Brilliant
🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉
This was total western propaganda crap!!!
It's really hilarious to watch these Chinese scholars who came to the US forty years ago talk about the China of today that they don't know a thing about. There's nothing like studying this side of the world from the other side of the world, so much for idle theorizing.
Total rubbidh. Huang goes all over the place but no logical conclusion.
Why do you assume he knows nothing of China today?
@@timdarville4827 Blind believers of China do just like how blind believers of Abrahamic religions say " people who oppose our religions do not know anything about us".
It is not fair to blame the students in the Tiananmen protests in 1989 for what happened later. It was solely up to the "reform" faction in the CCP to persuade the students to do the "right" things. If Zhao Ziyang did not realize that or was not able to do so, that would effectively end the reform. The ad hoc leadership in the protest movement could not be expected to have insight into the CCP.
👍👍👍👍
The great teacher of Deng and Xi, Lee Kuan Yew's great PAP party in SIngapore had the most appropriate description of their functioning role in society, always. "Ownself, check ownself." None of that western check and balance nonsense.
That only works if the person in power is moral and incorruptible. Lee Kuan Yew was an exception to the rule. Generally autocratic systems eventually produce a Mao or a Stalin or a Pol Pit or a Castro or an Idi Amin or a Chavez etc.... Not saying that liberal Western democratic governance is perfect, but it generally has self correction mechanisms that don't require collapse and revolution.
China has been centralized power since Shang Jun reform. Lenist more gives organizational power.
I might add the young students by nature didn't understand. It's not what drives them. I was part of a student sit-in protest years ago. I argued for leaving, for taking the small victory and lost. We got booted by police and nothing.
Engagement policy could still very well be true! It has not been fully attempted.
People like Kevin Rudd always refers to china’s system as Leninist one party system. Perhaps it would instigate dislike or hatred in the audience and sympathize with his analysis, or perhaps it would make it easier to analyze China by using analogy of Russian or Eastern Europe. But what is not appreciated is that the current system is just a continuation of the same system being in existence for over 2000 years. Labeling it with whatever modern western isms simply doesn’t help with their analyses.
You are absolutely correct. BTW Kavin Rudd is nothing more than a con man just like Gordon Chang and this Huang.
Agree
The culture differences.
Communism is a European Invention... Mao had huge pictures of Marx and Lenin at his rallies and such
Not sure what you mean by this. That the current Chinese government is essentially a continuation of Ming Qing bureaucracy? Yes, that’s a fair point. But you really can’t understand Chinese politics in detail without understanding Leninism Maoism. That is not Confucianism
I think Dr. Huang will be regret on his answer of the self correcting talks, obviously he did not think and just for the sake of answering the question.
Frankly I find Yasheng Huang is uttering a huge load of rubbish! This is a very superficial discourse!
With 2 Liberals at the centre stage, they love to discuss what would and could have been if there were no Tiananmen Incident. I see it is pointless in this type of discussion until you have plenty of time up your sleeves like they do.
They obvious think China should become a Liberal Democracy (*) one day, in their dreams mostly likely when they are no longer on this earth like me.
* The US is Liberal Democracy which take part in events in Ukraine and Gasa which destroy the lives of thousands of innocent people, and China a one-party state and Non-liberal State is now trying to be an active member in bringing all the parties in the conflict towards peace. Viewers, who do you think contributes more towards the wellbeing of mankind and eventually wins in the future?
re-engineering to be more academically acceptable and get-ahead in the american political establishment World-view
However Yasheng ‘s prediction will fail like many predictions in near future. Because they did not include the progress China to make around all corners of China mainland.
How typical! another China will great agin under communism leadership fool.
What would the world's predictions of the US been in 1933? What were everyone's predictions of China in 1852, 1945, 1960, 1976? So also shall China overcome her current woes and in 50 years will be one of the most advanced countries on earth and in space. Will there be large upheavals, declines, demographic shifts? Yeah. Will the current technocentric approach have vast repurcussions, currently unforeseen? Most certainly.
The discussion forgot the lessons of the failure of color revolution, the failure of democracy which was supported by the US and failed miserably and left a mess in the middle east.
53:47 I know why Xi jinping did what he did.🧐🧐
He did it because he wanted to be remembered in history as the leader under which China overtook America, which was bound to happen just after his tenure ended.😢😢
So he thought maybe I should just extend it, but ended up ruining the entire thing and put the country in jeopardy. 😅😅😂😂
This idea is beyond childishly cynical for a leader of a superpower but you must be great at articulating your own hallucinations
@@blankspace1126 Those with everything within their own powers always care more about their legacy than anything else.
Atleast I have a perfectly reasonable way to explain why he did it. 😂😂
@@PseudoProphet what is the problem about caring about the legacy....
This is stupid. Xi has to do what he has done because the US has awakened to China's rapidly expanding GDP. Even from the 1950s the US has had an anti China attitude because it is governed by a Communist party. The Korean War also resulted in the US being defeated partly by China and Russia. The US supported the Dahlai Lama in Tibet in the 60's and supported India in the India-China skirmishes. Then the US openly supported the Hong Kong so-called pro-democratic rioters and openly supports Taiwan separatists with supplies of arms and training. In the face of such US animosity, how can you blame Xi for taking overt steps to strengthen China's defence and foreign policy?
Tiannanmen was engineered by the US to effect regime change because the US wanted to end communism and impose democracy and make China into another proxy state of the US.
รู้เขารู้เราเพื่อความสุขสงบราบรื่นด้วยดีด้วยกัน😊🎉
Another "Gong Zhi"? Typical "Gong Zhi" left China and obtained higher education in USA during the hay days of USA. They became very ingrained with the glory of the USA system during that period. These are very smart people but their mind set is too fixated to be objective. They typically blind to the positive developments in China but only the positives of USA based on their "formative" years. Using western theory to apply to China. This suits the taste of western readers. Similar to Gordon Chang. The book should be able to sell well in the western world. Many of them returned to China but their mind set still sticked to them. The world has changed so much over last 30-40 years.
Too much western bs has got into him. 😂
I think he takes purely a pragmatic approach to argue that democracy/individual autonomy can hugely boost education, economy, the corruption, etc.
Western liberalism is promoted to weaken and align foreign states to the US, which in turn compromises their own sovereignty. He's obviously brainwashed and takes to self hating/critical of China, as if he knows better.
Should be the opposite: the fall and rise of the EAST.
",Rise and Fall of the East"? When did the East fall? On the contrary, it's rising.
《The Rise and Fall of the EAST: How Exams, Autocracy, Stability, and Technology brought China success, and why they might lead to its decline》- not “East”, but “EAST” for Exams, Autocracy, Stability, and Technology!
Fall of east ???😕😕
Huang has to be politically correct
Another Con artist in the town
So wrong Xi is still here in 2023 and still going
Excellent presentation. One of my sons went to study in China in the late 80’s after graduating from Stanford. After about a year in China he returned to the US because he became so disgusted with the pervasive corruption present in every day life at that time.
😂😂😂e can't handle it
01:04:20 How embarrassing.
Chinese Youth now have Computers and Hua Wei Mate phones ..so Chinese young generation is evolving.... following new techs just like all American kids...or better than American kids..
What is your point?
Dude china was Indian territory and under Indian civilization. There was no nation called China.. So u shud tell Indian history which is actual Asian history clear
No wonder there is much lesser shit and gang rapes now in China, since China is no longer Indian territory.
Lame
A desperate man that has very little of value to say
this guy must have not been in China for long time, does not know what big changes have taken place in China at all!
Don't know Gordon Chang has failed with his predictions for 23 years? Still repeat his failure?
You put a suit on a lying puppet. It is still propaganda.