Any time I have the urge to gatekeep I try to replace that behavior with an invitation. "Oh, you liked that? Then you'll *love* this, you should try it too!" I'm not always successful, but I try!
I’ve felt it, esp when I “discovered” Harry Potter early, I felt I owned it somehow. What an odd feeling about something that millions of people “own.” It can indeed get to you.
To me the whole gatekeeping phenomenon is a little sad for another reason. It's like when people have nothing in their life to be proud of or to be contented with, they start feeling proud and superior for most arbitrary things: their place of birth, their sex etc. So that's just another manifestation of that.
Story I heard at a Comic Con (😿): This guy was explaining how as he got into anime (which wasn't widely known at his school), the school anime club had a gatekeeper as its head. He had to "pass a test" to be accepted into the club. But because he was a novice at the time, he knew nothing about Dragonball, Evangelion, Gundam, or most of the series on the test. He sadly accepted his rejection, but later went to see a cinema release of an anime film. But the club was there, and mocked him so much that it ruined the movie for him. Broke my heart. Fortunately, he found a D&D group, who had many other club "rejects", and this restored his faith in anime as something he could enjoy.
Sadly I think it's easier to unintentionally become a bully than we realize. Especially for those who were picked on for liking something "before it was cool".
Before it was cool or a necessity. Just like being into computers made you a geek or nerd in the 80's and early 90's that was insulted. Then computers became a huge part of the workplace and suddenly those 'insulters' couldn't live or work without us geeks.
Amen 🙏🏾 I caught myself gatekeeping or hatekeeping as I call it the magical girl community. I rationalize it as I was keeping girls safe when I was really just pushing new fans from pretty cure and sailor moon. I probably lost some potential new friends. The pretty cure fandom is already toxic as it is.
@@missauroraroseblairsays I've done the same in the horror community without even realizing it. It's so easy to slip into, which is why it's so important to try and be aware of it.
My issue are “fans” who harass creators or who try to dictate what content should be who don’t know what they’re talking about. I see this most often when anyone dares to make a comic movie/tv show about a non-white/non-straight/non-male character.
I am a teenage girl, and, as it has always been, things liked by teenagers and especially teenage girls are mocked. I'm constantly made to feel like I can't be a fan of ttrpgs because i'm not a thirtysomething-year-old man and that i'm only playing them to impress a boy (i am a lesbian), and while my group is awesome, it's run by my friend's dad, 4/5 of us are autistic, the other players are all people i feel super comfortable around and they are always really accomadating to my health conditions, i've experienced some degree of hostility from almost every other person in the Dungeons and Dragons community in particular. That I can't be a real fan unless i've been bullied for liking D&D (does being bullied for being disabled literally every day of my life not mean anything to them?), unless i've been playing for twenty years, which is impossible given that i'm not even sixteen until december and have been playing since i was ten, and that i must only be in the community to impress a boy. i'm a lesbian, so again, impossible. i feel genuinely unsafe around a lot of men in the community and never go to events, not that that would be managable anyway. (this turned out way more ranty than expected, sorry)
Don't apologise for writing words. This isn't a community of tl;dr people, or where anything more than 240 characters is an essay. Say what you need in as many words as you want. :-) I can't relate to what you've been through, or will go through but if it helps just a little, go ahead knowing that you are a far better person than those people who mock you and put you down. You understand things they will probably never grasp and you understood them at an early age too. You'd think a D+D community, that is supposedly full of geeks and nerds (personally, I like those labels and don't see them as insults anymore), would have more sympathy and understanding. Yet, apparently some don't, so if those people don't want you it's their loss, stick with your group that does. As you say, you're still young, things may change as you get older and hopefully they do. If not keep looking for groups that are accepting towards you and your needs, they will be out there - somewhere. I've never done D+D but I did do MERP as a teen and there are decent people around in the community, it's just unfortunate about the bad apples. My best wishes to you. :-)
This is all worth saying. I went after the broad philosophical idea of gatekeeping but demographic exclusion or hostility (most often, though not exclusively, directed at females) is a very big issue. It’s when the gatekeeping goes beyond how much you know or what part you like to start excluding because of fundamental truths of who you are. Which is honestly even more messed up and damaging, but not something I felt equipped to try and tackle here.
Oh, as a teenage girl I WAS the one in our group who _bought_ the D&D books and was the Dungeon Master, so I totally got where you were coming from. Nowadays there's more of a mix in Dragon's Keep, but when I used to go in there in say, 1990, I always got kind of that startled reaction. So...basically I got away with it because if they wanted to play D&D AT ALL, they _had_ to play with a girl. :P And as for demographic gatekeeping and gaming...see my own comment here about being gatekept away from VIDEO gaming...(including PC). "Ewww, you like _casual_ games? PHONE games? Get away from me you filthy peasant!" Or how you're not a REAL gamer unless you're playing something that involves being screamed at like a piece of filth and a chance to get S.W.A.T.ed. Not to mention that a lot of the percieved "girly"est games WERE MADE BY GUYS and have large male fanbases. Sims, anyone...? And, I'm very happy to see Lwaves's comment about "don't apologise for writing words". I've always been a long-winded person when I get onto a subject I'm passionate about and it's SO refreshing to _not_ be hit with "tl;dr". :D
@@robinchesterfield42 tl;dr Sorry, I just couldn't resist doing that jokily, I'm in a playful mood today and thank you kindly for the compliment. As a guy, I like the Sims although I'm losing faith with the franchise and what they're doing with it. The new open world mod looks interesting though and I'm looking forward to Paralives as it has great potential. As a gamer, it saddens me the amount of times I see comments similar to "they're a girl so they're not a proper gamer" or "it's really a man playing as a female isn't that good." It's complete bollox, brought about by ignorance and their own feelings of insecurity. I'm not knocking the games (or youngsters) with this but it makes me laugh at how the games those people recommend, seem to be predominantly played by kids. Games are for everyone, wherever you are, whoever you are and however much you play. Play what you enjoy and hopefully enjoy what you play. :-)
As a thirty something year old afab who’s been playing since she was a kid, I’d like to tell you it gets better, but really, you do get better at dealing with it, and you do find ur core group where no one cares about ur age/gender. It can take a while, but don’t give up. There are good ones out there.
It felt good to hear that a part of possessiveness in your generation and mine stems from the fact that we remember a time where it was really "not cool" to like these things. I remember when we did a video project at school and I was 15 or so. I suggested doing a sci-fi story. And the guys in my group turned to me and one said "Do you want people to think that you're even weirder than they already do?" - I never forgot that. It's wonderful that we can now enjoy these things that we love and we shouldn't keep others from enjoying them just bc they don't agree with everything that we think. Also: Your joke at the beginning was perfect ;-)
I had similar thing with animation. While, as far as I'm aware, among the younger gen Z it is relatively cool or at least accepted to like anomated stuff as a teen when I, an older gen Z (born in 1997), was in my younger teens it was NOT. If someone saw me renting animated films I'd lie, saying I only take them because I have to hang out with my little cousin because otherwise I'd be called a baby or a weird or whatever. It might be different for other older gen Z people, but where i live fandom culture has only really started to become more mainstream a few years ago. But you know what? As bitter as I can be, those moments only last for a while. I am GLAD kids today can enjoy things I couldn't without judgement. I'm not a 'I wish you had it as bad as I did' kind od person because that just sounds callous and mean. I hate when people say that to me, why would I say or think that about others?
I am of similar age to Nathaniel and I too remember that being into computers and sci-fi was considered 'weird' and not cool. As a teenager I would enjoy my Star Trek and Babylon 5 etc at home but simply not talk about it at school (the only 'cool' sci-fi we could share was Red Dwarf). It didn't really bother me too much, its just how it was, until I went to uni and was outed as a Trekkie by my roommate to the rest of the class! 😡 The only upside was at the same time I joined a Trek/Sci-fi club and found a huge group of people who not only enjoyed the same stuff I did (some much more than me in fact) but didn't judge me or care what branch of sci-fi I was into. It was one of the greatest feelings, to find like-minded people and helped me just ignore the 'non-nerds' and the loose lipped roommate. 😁 I find it humorous that these days the things that were once hidden away because they were deemed uncool are now widely accepted and probably you're not cool if you don't like them! How things turn around; at least perhaps more people can openly enjoy what they like without judgement or ridicule. The more fans there are the more the fandom evolves and more opinions can be heard which surely can only be a good thing.
Another type of fandom gatekeeping I often encountered when growing up was more of a financial/possessive one. The you can't be a fan unless you own all the books/dvds and at least this amount of merch kind of gatekeeping. That bs probably also still a thing in fandom today.
My favourite thing in the world is introducing someone to their new favourite thing. Don't gatekeep your favourite stuff when it's easier and more enjoyable to show someone what you love and why you love it.
I used to be a borderline gatekeeper three years ago. Then I came across this post on Pinterest about books. It said "Whenever you find someone who hasn't read the same books has you have, never shame them into reading them. Encourage them. And then be prepared for their reaction which is going to be always different from yours." I started applying this idea to every fandom I was a part of. I introduced a friend to Marvel in the same way. I told her "There are people jumping off stuff, defeating the bad guys and there is hilarious banter, you should try watching these, you'll find them really fun" and guess what? She's a marvel fan now. She went to watch Endgame in the theatres and absolutely loved it. It was so heartwarming. I have tried to introduce my other friends to DW, they enjoyed it but couldn't get into it that much and I was still okay with that. Me, from 3 years ago, wouldn't be. But I am now a much more positive fan. Thank you for talking about gatekeeping fandoms. This is one my favourite videos of yours 😍
I can remember a time when I was little (and where I lived) that being a fan of something geeky carried a stigma that few people wanted to bear, so we kept our fandom hidden. This was when quoting from your favourite TV show or movie became a signal to try to find 'your people'. Those who weren't fans wouldn't understand it, but those that were found instant identification with someone else who loved what you love. Other than Star Wars, you couldn't really buy merch for anything either, so there was no outward identification. It did feel like a cool little in-group, and we never questioned anyone's 'loyalty' because there seemed to be so few of us that we were just happy to find someone- anyone- who shared something in common. Now that fandom has become a humongous industry, there's no feeling of in-group anymore unless it's self-created. I now hesitate to self identify with any fandom because I don't want to run into some self-appointed gatekeeper. So I'll buy some merch, I'll wear the occasional t-shirt, I'll have phone/computer backgrounds and screensavers of my favourites, but I've backed away from the fan communities I used to enjoy because I'm tired of someone testing my "loyalty".
Small communities are the best. One of the best internet communities I’ve been in is ya book tumblr because we’re like all girls around the same age so we have similar mindsets (so no disliking /discrediting others just because of gender or age) and there’s no gatekeeping or toxic fans because a lot of teenagers don’t read books anymore so everyone was just happy to interact with people. But at the same time it also wasn’t hard to find people to talk to in real life without taking bets because of course they’re gonna be in the same section of the bookstore as you are!
You know what's exhausting though? Being the only one knowing the stories from the comics and being asked after watching a MCU movie, which parts were done right and which not. I'd rather enjoy the movies for what they are and not compare them to the comics.
Every single one of the points you made applies to music as well. As a fan of rock and metal I see this kind of gate keeping and backlash against new fans or against a band changing its sound all the time. I think part of it comes from people feeling like what made being a fan of that thing special was the fact that the community was small and once something blows up that is no longer the case. But like you said, there is no reason to take your frustrations out on other people who are enjoying the works. I, personally, love getting my friends into the music, TV shows, or creators that I like because I want to be able to share the joy not just keep it all for myself.
You often see comments about people who discover bands or songs because they've heard them in video games or TV programmes. People sometimes say outright that you shouldn't be allowed to listen if that's how you discovered it.
I myself have been guilty of gatekeeping. When I was 12, I started playing Kingdom Hearts and what attracted me to the series was the presence of Disney characters like Mickey and Hercules. At school, I would try to talk to my fellow Disney fans about it, and I got the same response: "What's Kingdom Hearts?" This pretty much struck a nerve with me and I had the mindset of "If you've never heard of or played Kingdom Hearts, then you're not a real Disney fan!" Now I'm 20, and I've let go of that toxic belief. These days if I meet a fellow Disney fan who's never been involved with Kingdom Hearts, I'll be happy to tell them about it and recommend it. Gatekeeping is also sadly present in cosplay, especially towards POC (and even black people and Muslims). Gatekeepers will always tell POC cosplayers to cosplay characters that share the same skin tone, this can negatively affect the POC and even force them to quit cosplaying. I am African American and Bengali, I can cosplay Esmeralda or Tiana and no one will bat an eye. I've always wanted to cosplay Rey and I am aware that people will see it and angrily tell me that I cannot cosplay her because of our different skin tones. If I had gotten into cosplay as a kid (which was back when I felt out of place due to my skin tone), and people came at me with "You can't cosplay X! You're black and they're white!", I would have been saddened. Nowadays, I feel more comfortable with myself as a person of color and I plan on throwing in a cultural twist on future cosplays.
Sis tell me about it. I feel your pain as a black latinex I only have Tiana, Storm, Katara and few others to cosplay and I’m sadly lighter than most them. Also Yay Bengali my moms husband is Bengali!
I was made fun of for liking Lord of the Rings and Star Trek in the early 90s, so when I found out there were other people like me when I went to university, it was exhilarating. Until I discovered that as an AFAB person, nobody would EVER consider me a "real fan" like you describe so accurately. It's not just "people who hold the same opinions as me" that's a part of gatekeeping, it's also "people who look like me". For a few years, I tried to "prove" my fanhood by being more knowledgeable than the gatekeepers, but in the end I just gave up. I'm no longer calling myself a fan of anything, simply to avoid some white cishet male challenging my right to the fan label. It's too exhausting.
My theory on why this sort of gatekeeping happens boils down to a concept of 'social capital'. This sounds like a complicated way of putting it, but it's something that even children inherently understand-- that different people have different sorts of talents and commodities to offer society at large. This can be exemplified by the way that schoolchildren (particularly the older ones in high school) instinctually organize themselves into cliques. Each clique has a different sort of social capital. Physical strength and athletic aptitude can be social capital-- the kids with an abundance of those types comprise the jocks. Physical attractiveness can be social capital, too. So can intellect, academic aptitude, and specialized technical knowledge. And of course, money is another form of social capital. Basically, it's anything you possess which allows you to appear valuable to others. I'm in my mid-thirties now. Decades ago, when I was growing up, pop culture knowledge was *not* seen as a very useful form of social capital-- the only people who appreciated it were those who also possessed the same knowledge, and enjoyed the same types of pop culture. Hence, people labeled with that type of knowledge were seen as geeks, and were largely ostracized and berated by the other social strata. However, in recent times, there's sort of been a sea change in geekdom, especially as Hollywood has taken notice of sci-fi and superhero franchises as legitimate properties. Suddenly, "geek" knowledge *is* a valid form of social capital-- being able to reference a movie you saw or a comic you read or a game you played on the fly in casual conversation is seen as a valid social skill. Pop culture has reached a real point of oversaturation, and so many people have been exposed that dropping a passing reference to the TARDIS or a joke about Iron Man make people seem more relatable and charismatic. Years ago, when Blockbuster was still a thing, I forced myself to rent and watch a ton of highly-regarded movies that I had never actually seen before, because I was convinced it would aid my social skills. And it totally worked-- in our society, interaction thrives on shared experience. People these days *speak in references--* they've become an entire subtextual language! It's the reason that meme culture has exploded on the internet. A lot of people cling jealously to their fandoms, because it's the thing they perceive that they do better than other people. Jocks are better at sports, rich kids are rich... and geeks have more obscure knowledge about Star Trek or Doctor Who. It's a form of experience, because they've invested large amounts of their life to understanding the inner workings of these franchises. Gatekeeping, then, is basically the same sort of behavior that you see from anyone who has been hoarding resources for their own self-fulfillment (like, for example, the super-rich). Finally, fandoms based on geeky pastimes have been afforded some amount of leverage over social situations, and many of the people in those fandoms have lifetimes of feeling powerless. To their perception, they finally have a bit of power-- and while true fans might like to share with others the things they love about their chosen franchise, people in positions of power rarely share it with others willingly. From their perspective, it's in their rational self-interest to maintain a status quo that excludes disparate voices.
I get the sense that a lot of the gate-keeping around mass media products in particular has to do with the "vote with your wallet" ideology. People think that by controlling the character of the consumer group they can influence artistic direction.
About a year ago, I did the math to work out how long it would take me to read all Doctor Who novels, comics, listen to the Audios, and watch all the Classics. I forget how long it was (I think I was gonna a cram it into seventy years?), but the number's not the point. I wasn't interested in 'completing' Doctor Who because I wanted to, it was because I felt _obliged_ to. The goal was never to get through everything. Just enough to be considered a fan. I think it was just six months ago I found out about Lawrence Miles and the Wilderness Years and whatnot, and I felt pretty bad, honestly. There was a whole (albeit niche) era of the show which only an elite group of fans were privy to, and I felt a little pressured to be among those ranks if I was to continue saying 'I know everything about the show.' Only now that the Doctor Who CZcams Channel have begun uploading old videos do I realise that I actually know quite a bit. For each video they post, I comment one or two insights into the production and direction, which people seem to appreciate. I love Doctor Who, and I'm always gonna be expanding my knowledge of the show; exploring different mediums. But I don't feel _obliged_ to anymore. If 2004-2010 is the only era of the show which I'm intimately familiar with, then I'm okay with that. That doesn't make me a lesser fan, and it doesn't make me more of a fan. It's just nice to be fanatic.
You're absolutely right, this doesn't just happen in geeky fandoms or comic-book-sci-fi fandoms! I've seen people VICIOUSLY debate what it means to be a true Jane Austen fan. *cackles in British period drama*
Oh noooo... As someone who loves Austen's work, this actually intrigues me deeply. I'm sure I'd hate to be in that mess, but what kind of gatekeeping do you get in that sphere? Is it just "You're only a real fan if you've read the books" or do people claim that to be a real fan you must have seen/liked specific screen adaptations?
@@eclecticdog2k901 So "you're only a real fan if you've read the books" definitely plays into it--but the BIGGEST one I remember is "you're only a real fan if you love the 1995 Pride & Prejudice adaptation and acknowledge it as the Only Legitimate Adaptation." People who had the gall to enjoy the 2005 movie (ie, me) were deeply scorned. xD
@@katiehanna90 Ahh, I see. I'm somewhat aware of that particular conflict, but I've only seen the '95 miniseries, so I can't have an opinion about which is better yet. I'm glad you enjoy that movie!
@@eclecticdog2k901 Thanks! I think the '95 movie is definitely well done (especially Colin Firth's performance), but I prefer Keira Knightley's interpretation of Elizabeth in the '05.
@@katiehanna90 Oh, interesting! I'll definitely have to check it out sometime then. :-D What are your thoughts on any other Jane Austen books/adaptations you may have consumed?
It is tough watching something you love being changed for new viewers. I recall when 'finally' Start Trek The Next Generation aired. It was good and perhaps better than the original, but would never be 'my' Star Trek. It had to be changed for a new generation of viewers. It takes something like Sherlock Holmes where there is an established canon of 9 books. Add any movies or audio shows, but there are 9 books. New TV series come and go, but the source was 100 years old and has stood the test of time. I don't like to like it, but I know new stories have that I loved years ago has to have viewers to survive. Great commentary.
There's a really good academic piece by Kristina Busse called Geek hierarchies, boundary policing, and the gendering of the good fan which points out the flaws and injustices in fandom hierarchies that I totally recommend... I think it's free to access as well!
The way I look at it is like a burger. Just because I choose to pick out the tomato and the pickle on the burger, doesn't mean I hate the burger as a whole. And the same goes for fandoms. If someone doesn't like a particular aspect of something, doesn't mean they hate the thing as a whole. Everyone has their preferences and unique tastes. If everyone in a fandom liked the same parts can you imagine how boring that would be?
I've been told so many times that I'm not a Doctor Who "fan" because I didn't like the stories from the newest seasons. Been called a misogynist and didn't like the Doctor being a woman or the companions blah blah blah that I just keep my opinions to myself in my fandoms and its depressing. For the record I don't care that the Doctor is a woman i just expect good storytelling and entertainment and I just wasn't with the new episodes. :(
That definitely doesn't make you a fake fan! I do like the new seasons (Series 11 in particular reminds me of the William Hartnell years), but it's the exact opposite of "fake" to have an honest opinion.
Thank you for this video! I absolutely agree with you. I left the Star Wars fandom years ago because it was so toxic. As a Doctor Who geek, I’m thankful for your CZcams channel, as well as the positive DW podcasts I’ve found and a wonderful DW Facebook community where gatekeeping is not allowed.
I think gatekeeping is a manifestation of our insecurities . . . We feel protective over our favs and our relationship to it. There’s a nasty validation in thinking that YOU understand and appreciate it more than others and that makes your love of it more valid and special . . . I say this because I’ve been in that mentality, and it’s really petty and sad.
You know what, you got me by the intro ALREADY! hahahaha GENIUS!!! I was actually looking for a video to understand better the concept of the word GATEKEEPING (I'm actually a brazilian guy who loves english content) and I found your channel! Now I can say that I REALLY understand it. The interesting thing is that I've experienced gatekeeping on being an artist here in my city, there are people who think they are the real ones or the true ones and I think I can apply to that. I also felt guilty about being that toxic fan hahahahaha but hey, that's lame actually. Thanks and congrats on the content, you're pretty amazing!
I hate the fact that I watched one of these videos just so that I could see what people had a problem with and CZcams thought I then wanted to watch every single one of them from my homepage
There was a similar thing, for different reasons, between some classic Who fans and what was then new Who back in 2005. If you came from classic and liked the new show, then you weren't a 'true' or 'real' fan, according to those people. Thankfully they were a minority but they still existed.
@@RubyPrice One option there is "incognito mode" or whatever your browser-of-choice uses for private browsing - as long as you don't log in from that window, it doesn't know who you are.
@@lwaves Oh totally, I remember so well how the new Who fans (2005 --) were derided by old Who fans for their shipping and squeeing (because Doctor Who is serious business - heaven forbid anyone actually having fun with it!).
There is of course a flip side to this. When they try to quote remake A beloved franchise, such as Teen Titans, Thundercats, or She-Ra and then when fans of the original serieses tries to say that this does not appeal to them they are labeled -ists and -phobes. They are told that a product obviously designed to cash in on their nostalgia is not for them. They are told by the fans of the new shows, over social media, and even in the shows themselves that the original product that they once loved is now something deserving of mockery and ridicule
Are you not really a secret psychologist? Everytime you post something that can be taken as controversial, you approach it head on, no bs but with empathy and understanding, and that's not easy. Thank you for this!
I remember gatekeeping back as far as the 1980s when I was a teenager. It was often used to exclude people of colour, or those deemed too young to appreciate a cultural entity. I was really into goth music and fashion back then and was 'barred' from entry to goth communities. It also happened with women and punk the decade before. You're right about gatekeeping potentially causing the extinction of the culture in question, but I don't find this practice as bad as it used to be, especially, as you point out, so many fandoms have entered the mainstream.
Gatekeeping is one of the reasons I fell out of an entire "genre" you might say. I was one of those 90's kids that was first introduced to Anime through Pokemon and Digimon as a kid, then cemented my love in my teens through Toonami with DBZ, Gundam (Wing, G and 08th), Rurouni Kenshin and Sailor Moon. By the time I hit college I considered myself a full blown Otaku. And then I met some of the other fans who would shape my experience going forward. I got some of the basics you see in other fandoms: Which shows are superior and which are for "casuals"; "Princess Mononoke is superior to Castle in the Sky or Kiki's Delivery Service". "Neon Genesis Evangelion is a masterpiece every fan needs to watch". "Fans of Naruto and Bleach are just bandwagoning, you should at least have seen Cowboy Bebop". But because of the type of medium it was, I was conditioned (and I do mean that with every negative connotation that word has) to prefer sub over dub, and disregard any manga that isn't printed right to left. I bought it for a while. I purchased Cowboy Bebop, despite not getting into it as fervently as Naruto. I put some manga back that weren't printed the "correct" way, missing out on stories I otherwise might have enjoyed. To this day I still have to make a concerted effort to listen to the dub of an anime I may watch despite missing what's going on with the top half of the screen because instinctively I want to still believe that "the dub can't represent the true intent of the anime the way the sub can". But after leaving college and not interacting with the die-hard portion of the anime community, I started to realize the flimsiness and (in some cases) outdated nature of their arguments. And seeing where the "popular" anime has gone and knowing what I know about that side of the fandom, I don't want to go back. I may occasionally watch an anime that comes on Netflix, but I loathe to consider myself a "fan" lest I delve into that caste system again. And the fact I typed that sentence out with such conviction saddens me...
I remember when I was eleven or twelve, announcing at summer camp that I liked Star Wars. Most people either didn’t care or thought it was cool. One boy, however, thought that I couldn’t be a real Star Wars fan because I was a girl. He insisted on quizzing me on Star Wars minutiae to find out whether I was a “real” fan. I don’t remember the exact outcome, but I think he did end up acknowledging me. We still never got along, though. I’ve also been jokingly told I can’t be a Star Wars fan because I like Star Trek too. I’m also a huge shipper, although it depends on the fandom. And I’ve heard many times from multiple people that shippers are what make fandoms toxic, and with the implication being that only shippers are the problem. I was going to say that I don’t recall having done any gatekeeping myself, but then I remembered how incredulous I felt when I heard from my younger cousin that his favorite SW movie was “Revenge of the Sith,” which I thought was the worst of the prequel trilogy. (I know my opinion is the minority.) Fortunately, I never told him that. I managed to keep my feelings to myself.
Excited for this one! My MA is in participatory cultures and social media and we did a large section on toxic fandom so I’m interested to hear your take on it!
So thoughts after watching: I completely agree with the points about fandoms completely cannibalising themselves recently, when Jodie Whittaker was voted as the second most popular Doctor in the Radio Times poll, I saw a lot of people saying that it must be new fans or fair weather fans because no real fan of Doctor Who would have voted for her as their favourite Doctor... Which is a load of rubbish tbh. I had a lot of people saying that the only reason I liked Game of Thrones season 8 was because I only became a fan after season 7 had already aired and hadn't devoted over 8 years of my life to the show I didn't even know existed until there were already five seasons out. (To clarify, I do see most of the problems that people point out about the season but for me, the only 'poor' episode was the finale). I think the worst thing about toxic fandom that has sprung up seems to be the idea that fans own a franchise and if something within that franchise doesn't please them, case and point Season 8 of Thrones, series 11 and 12 of Doctor Who or Star Wars The Last Jedi, then the fans have a right to demand that something be struck from canon or it be remade. Whilst I can sympathise with fans for not enjoying something, I think the sheer arrogance on display by trying to refute the validity of a piece of media, especially when there are people out there who have enjoyed it, and write these people off as not true fans or as hacks. It irks me to a crazy degree and I'm totally not here for it. I've seen a lot of people who seem to actually want Doctor Who to be cancelled and put on the shelf again by the BBC rather than them continue with Chris Chibnall and Jodie Whittaker at the helm which I think is just insulting to both the production teams associated with the show and the fans who have been enjoying it! Really good video! Left me thinking and inspired!
On DW and SW, there are those saying that Chibnall and Johnson respectively aren’t real fans and were out to “ruin”, “destroy” these properties... and that enrages me. You may not think this was the right direction for the series, but you don’t get to decide that these people aren’t also fans.
@Najawin couldn't it then be said that Tennant fans might have done the same thing? I'll admit the poll was flawed, but it's also possible that more people like Whittaker as the Doctor than you'd expect...
Very well said, Nathaniel. Btw, just a side-note, _if you don't support her on Patreon, you're not good enough and will be exiled with immediate effect._
As Star Trek Star Wars and Doctor Who fan since very young age and by Young I mean in the 70s a few days ago I went to a convenience store to grab something young man behind the counter probably younger than both my children. Told me how much he loved my doctor who t-shirt. He then said I loved the season with Matt Tennant. I smiled I didn't make an attempt to correct him because he's a fan he likes to show he may not be as into it as I am or someone else but he still a fan.
I used to be a bit of a gatekeeper when it came to the fandoms I was more invested in - for example I used to think that people who had only seen the LOTR movies and never read the books (or stuff like the Silmarillion) were just lazy and should not consider themselfs fans. Until I found myself on the other side of it, where I was a much more casual fan of something like Star Wars (I have watched the movies and some of the TV shows but have never read any of the books or comics) and people told that was not good enough. After that I learned to be more welcoming and encouraging to new/less invested people in the fandoms I am more knowledgeable of and not take it to heart, when other fans tell me I don't belong as a casual fan.
Being casual fan isn’t some to sad about. I wish I knew this. I’m a causal fan to Persona, I only played the 4th and 5th game. I wasn’t bored until the 90s and had limited experience with jrpgs (my family was very religious like “video games’ are the devil religious) so I understand the shame of not being a hardcore Jrpg gamer.
This video it's so great and it has so many layers that you can apply to a lot of things, it's like the multiverse itself. I watched it and I was just replacing some words you've said and it served me like I was having a conversation about some things that are going on. I know my comments are out of the main theme somehow but I guess it shows how amazing the content was and this theme is definitely something to discuss and study in deeper levels of knowledge, but I can also tell that your video covered it all.
This is why I stopped visiting web boards to discuss the various fandoms with people. It made me realize that I, not that long ago, tended to be a gatekeeper of sorts. I didn't do it out of spite originally, I just loved these fandoms so much that I wanted everyone else to experience the things I loved on the same level. "You like Star Wars? Have you read this book and this comic?" "You like watching The Flash? I can give you a list of comics that you will really dig!" I tried to invite people deeper into those spaces. However, the old days of the ancient imdb web boards turned me into the grumpy old man for quite a while. I remember it starting with Smallville, and then going on to the CW DC shows. Mostly it was fights with shippers (I'll leave my opinions of that practice for another day) who would whine about how relationships were written or set up. One time I tried explaining to a TV only fan that two characters were comic book canon, and they simply replied "I've never read a comic book, and never will". Those people I have absolutely no patience for. I want everyone to feel included in any fandom I'm a part of, but the minority who come into a fandom and try to bully creators to change things because they want it done their way (and yes, I know full well this includes the old guard as well, because I fight with my fellow old people), those people are just as much to blame for the toxic fandoms. Sorry for getting long winded, ma'am. This was an excellent video, and I always look forward to your content.
I am somewhat jealous of the children for the ease they have had. But I am so happy for them to have that ready community that we never had access to until we were older.
I always try to be welcoming. I'm open to all fans but if somebody just starting to get into something challenges me or my knowledge of the topic, THEY WILL FACE MY GEEK WRATH. But with all seriousness I try to be nice to anybody because they are all fans. New fans also have to remember not to pretend to know more than the fans who are more knowledgeable (not better just know more about the topic). JUST BE NICE TO EACH OTHER
We older fans often get accused of gatekeeping but I've talked to Nu Trek fans and NONE of them are interested in Discovery or the new movies interacting with Trek's past. They don't want it to come anywhere near it. They may not care about the old canon but they don't want anyone getting dirt on THEIR brand new canon!
Great video and very thoughtful as always. Pretty much anyone who is a passionate fan of something will be a more casual fan of something else, somewhere in the life. They should remember that before they start criticising others in this way. As Nathaniel quite rightly says, more knowledgeable fan yes, better fan definitely not.
The web comic xkcd had a strip that illustrated how I try to modify my tendency to say incredulously, "How can you not have seen that????" Google xkcd ten thousand.
I think the best way for people to avoid the feeling of being gatekept is to rediscover the art of of lurking. Before you join a message board, read it for awhile without posting. Before attending a convention, talk to people who have previously attended it. Subgroups within fandoms have every right to exist and have their own cultures, etiquette and scope of what they encompass. It's a good idea to learn if one is a good fit for you before jumping in and, if for whatever reason it doesn't seem to be, it's better to just leave it be and find another that is or possible even create it. Nobody likes someone who comes into their house and tries to rearrange the furniture, but the great thing about the internet is that real estate is basically free.
I LOVE meeting new fans of my fandom, and you should too! In some ways, it’s like being able to re-live those exciting moments when you first discover new books or episodes. Think back when you were a new fan, and how exciting it was to make new discoveries! How would you have liked an “old pro” to have treated you? Can you enhance their experience? What can you show them at the stage they are now that will help the, get more excited without giving the, spoilers?? Be a big bro/sis, not a playground bully.
Exactly! As a Doctor Who fan, this is one of my biggest pleasures, and it's built into the structure of the show itself, as experiencing things you already know through fresh eyes is one of the reasons the Doctor takes on companions!
I have been a fan of the walking dead since i was 6 or 7(i'm 16 now). I would NEVER want to keep people from experiencing the joy....and sadness...but overall happiness I've felt watching the show. I grew up with this show. It's a part of my life. Gatekeeping this show or anything else i'm into is something I have never felt the need to do. I just wish people would let others enjoy these things as well.
My first experience of fandom was Transformers, and EVERYTHING you said here was true there. I joined the on line community just as the michael bay films were being developed. And boy did the term “true fan” get thrown around randomly at ANYONE who was a fan of beast wars or generation two it really pissed me off then and has gotten more frustrating as transformers has added more and more incarnations. At this point I’ve checked out of actively engaging “fans” most of the time as gatekeeping just pisses me off.
Have to admit I’m a little guilty of this type of thing. For some reason I’d say things like: “You’re not a true DW unless you’ve seen An Unearthly Child.” Which I never meant all too seriously but it’s still a douchie thing to say. You shouldn’t have to meet specific requirements to be a fan of something.
I feel where you're coming from and I largely agree. I think there should be room for fans of varying degrees within fandoms. I can be a long time fan of SW & respect the opinion of new fans or casual fans. There is, however, something to be said about fandom integrity (a cringey term, I know lol). When we have folks who aren't just new blood, but new fans who declare themselves the "real fans" or the ones who "really get it". They were either apathetic to the franchise, or actively despised it, until they found one thing to like about it. Now that thing is "what the franchise truly is" and they have to defend this one portion of the franchise to the death. There are some fans, or stans as I like to call them, who obsess over part of the franchise and can't allow any disagreement. So if you say something bad about their favorite character or storyline, they can't even let you say your opinion without trying to silence you. They lie about you, put words in your mouth, and make you out to be a villain. These folks aren't "bad fans" for having different opinions. They're bad because they're causing vitriolic division among the fandom & making everything a real life issue. I could voice my displeasure with the 13th Doctor and fans can have a back and forth reasonably, or just agree to disagree. But stans will ignore any genuine criticism I say and go "you just hate her bcuz you hate women". THAT is toxic & imo that's what's killing fandom spaces right now.
I don't recall ever having encountered gatekeepers - every fan, of every fandom I've had an interest in, has been of the "Welcome, read this, it's amazing, you're gonna love it!" type. I strongly suspect I have been lucky in that. Having said that, I wonder if gatekeeping is part of a desire to "protect" The Tribe from outsiders. "These are my people, and this gate that you must go through is a way for me to stop you coming in." - possibly coupled with a fear of the gatekeeper losing their "exclusive" status as The Fandom is "diluted" with these not-real-fans. Just random Sunday morning thoughts in response to another thought-inspiring video.
I personally still don't get how people can be okay with being gatekeepers. I have fandoms I'm really passionate about and whenever someone new comes in or I find another fan at all I'm really excited to share what I love. I'm especailly excited when we get newcomers cuz the fandoms I've been in the longest have been kinda dead so to see new people discovering it just makes me happy. More people to talk to about what I love.
All this is true but ngl, it wasn’t easy seeing the ‘cool kids’ start wearing batman T-shirts when they’d kicked the shit outta me for doing the same a year before
The subject of gatekeeping reminds me of when I started reading The Beano as a kid and thought that I needed to be interested in all of the strips to be a true fan, despite the fact that I found some of them quite boring and rarely took any notice of them. I know it’s not exactly the same thing, but I just find it interesting how there is a common conceit that it’s necessary to be interested in every aspect of a fandom to be a part of it.
Firstly, you look absolutely stunning. Your make up is totally on point🙂 Secondly, its often scary to state your person opinion in a fandom if it conflicts with popular opinions as you can be attacked for them and ganged up on and thats what I hate the most. Im a simple girl, I dont mind an open debate - share your thoughts too - just don't slam a person or gang up on them to tell them why "the popular opinion is THE ONLY opinion". Its sad.
I have a story to share about something that could easily have been labeled gatekeeping behavior, but ultimately did help me enjoy a game more. So, I was playing Monster Hunter 4 Ultimate online. I really didn't know what I was doing, picking armor based mostly on looks and defense numbers. But in that game, there's a "skills" system I had failed to grasp- each armor piece has points that count towards certain skills, or passive effects that make the hunt easier. Someone online called me out for not having any if these skills on my character due to my haphazard armor setup. And so when I came back to that room with an armor setup that granted skills, my actions within that game changed for the better- ultimately, once I had a more complete grasp on that system, I would never go into a hunt without a proper set that granted skills ever again. And even when playing alone, this became an extremely helpful habit that made each hunt that much more manageable. I crafted complete set after complete set and was rewarded with boons to my character's performance. And I wouldn't have known about this if someone more knowledgable hadn't pointed that out to me.
It's really sad to me how many people say "yeah I was interested in x thing, but the fandom is so toxic, I don't wanna bother." Just let people like things, why is that so difficult?
Well said, Nathaniel! I've recently got into the fandom of a show that ran from 1984 - 1994. Everyone I've spoken to has been really welcoming. I wish more fandoms were like that. There are days when I'm a bit sad to be in the Doctor Who fandom.
I had difficulties understanding the toxicity of fandoms at first because I got lucky when I entered them. Looking back, I was _really_ lucky. Star Wars came out while I was in grade school, and while it was new enough to be "different", I wasn't the only one with a Star Wars costume that Halloween. (The two others were both boys, one as Vader and the other a fairly tall Jawa - and I was jealous that he was able to make working lights for the eyes.) D&D was similar. Fairly new, any new players were welcome in the high school group. The group at the Air Force Base (this was overseas, so essentially a small community), women (or in my case teenage girls) were welcomed with enthusiasm by adults who were, honestly, mostly not much older than myself. (And being that about half that group were in the same unit as my father, I was quickly relegated to "little sister" status by the majority, but that's a different dynamic.) It was then somewhat bizarre to discover, some fifteen to twenty-plus years later, that "girls don't play D&D" or "girls don't read comics" or... you get the picture. And it was interesting that it was people younger than myself saying this. And when I would pipe up that "sure we do!", I'd get this condescending look... followed by a glance away when I didn't back down. And while part of me would like to drop blame on a "second gen" of fandom... fans in my own age bracket aren't much better. Many seem to have forgotten how great it was to find someone else that really liked the same things we did, and different viewpoints were things to share, not fight against. And there are even some of the really young fans with the same "trufan" frenzy, and that makes me truly depressed. I sometimes wonder if it isn't a matter of numbers, as in, we have so many more fans as our interests become more "mainstream" (a word I hate but haven't found a better version as of this writing), that the law of averages means we get gatekeepers as a matter of course... but I don't know.
It also leads to people apologising for no reason. I have had people apologise to me because they don't like the book or film, or genre or company, or whatever I openly am a fan of. And it always confuses me because: why would I care if we don't have the same opinion? As long as you respect that I like this thing, I'll respect that you don't. Watching this made realise that these people probably met a sub-sort of Gatekeeper - the "how-can-you-NOT-like-this-fandom?" person. Which is probably as bad as the "You're-not-a-real-fan-UNLESS...." You said "individuals have their own opinion". Also - love your makeup, absolutely fabulous.
Back in my day, a lot of peole were made fun of for liking anime. Although it has enjoyed itself in the mainstream eye, I still have my memories of being deliberately gatekeeped out of anime. I think this was in 3rd grade (2006-2007, yes I'm showing my age here.) and I really started to get into anime. There were also kids in my class that we were also into anime so it made sense for me to be friends with them, right? If only... The kids (a group of boys) were not happy to see a girl like the same thing they liked. Initially, they were fine before I started talking about anime that they were watching (InuYasha, Full Metal Alchemist, etc.) and all of a sudden it was not okay for me to like anime. I wasn't allowed to reenact scenes with them or let alone join their group. Eventually, I gave up and continued being a weird lonely anime kid. Moral of the story: don't gatekeep, it does no one favors.
for me i just see gatekeeping as keeping those that are harming the fandom out. like there are alot of people the comic's fanbase would rather not be there.
I’ve experienced enough first- and second-hand fandom gatekeeping that I do it to myself before anyone else can bother doing it to me. If I call myself a fake fan, I don’t have to be scared of other fans calling me fake to invalidate me. I don’t have to beat myself up when I can’t remember elements of things that I truly love.
Someone who plays monopoly every week is not only as into board games (well, a board game, but no-one would question their 'credentials' if basically the only game they played was Twilight Imperium or 1830) as I am, but is likely to be able to beat me in any negotiation or trading game we play together, provided we both know how to play that game. Someone is a fan of something if they consider themselves to be a fan. That, for me, is the sole determinator.
I come here from a musical background having seen so much gatekeeping of bands. People saying, "I'm a bigger fan cause I knew about this band before they got big" or whatever. It's egotistical, pretentious, and at the end of the day, nobody really cares. It doesnt matter when you got into the bad or fandom or how much material you know. If you enjoy it, you're a fan!
"If these people are fans in a way that I'm not, then that must mean that my fan appreciation isn't the only valid one, and I'm not special." Something like that?
I think the worst aspect of gatekeeping is just how damn easy it is to fall into that mindset even when you don't mean to. I'm willing to bet everyone who has ever been involved in a fandom has had a moment of at least *thinking* someone else is less of a fan based on how much they've seen/read/the length of time they've been calling themselves a fan, even if you never say it out loud. For example, I know that I am unfortunately prone to leaping to judgements about people in the musical theatre fandom who say they've only listened to the most popular "post-Hamilton" shows - it's something I try to twist into active invitations to older or less well-known shows, but I still can't help making those initial judgements. As was said in the video, I think it's just a natural result of not wanting things either in the fandom or the thing the fandom is about to change, which then evolves into attempting to police who can and can't be a part of it. And I think it's telling that the worst gatekeeping seems to take place within fandoms where real life bullying was previously a high risk if you even revealed you were a fan but which have fairly rapidly and recently moved into the mainstream. If you were bullied for liking something, it can be genuinely galling to see people now falling over themselves to be next in line to say they like it too and appearing to face no (or very little) societal repercussions - there's a feeling of "I was put through hell for this fandom; I 'proved' myself, it's not fair that they shouldn't have to do the same". There's a need to assure themselves that the bullying they previously went through wasn't just for nothing, which manifests into this idea of a "real fan". Fandom gatekeeping is an insidious practice but I honestly don't think it's ever going to go away. What we *can* do is recognise when we're in danger of engaging with it and try to turn it into something more positive, whether it's recommending the things that you think would make someone a "real fan", or focusing on just potentially making a new friend from the fact you're interacting with someone who at least has the same basic interest as you, or just acknowledging that fandom does always need new blood just to keep it going.
I’m fairly certain that as a teenager I never considered myself a “fan” of anything because I had internalized hearing all those gatekeeping comments and thought, “ oh I’ve only seen x amount of episodes. So I just like the show, I’m not a “fan” “
Excellent, thought-provoking video. I can't think of anything in it that I didn't agree with. But gatekeeping is just another form of prejudice, a way to create an exclusive social environment for a group of like-minded people. Impressive eyelashes BTW.
Them:. Kids nowadays don’t listen to Metallica Nirvana or watch Anime. Also them.: I don’t want young people listening to Metallica Nirvana or watching Anime.
The biggest problem here is the corporations and media outlets that will brand any backlash to a diverse cast as sexist racist homophobic etc. This can also give the impression that the vocal minority and the bad apples in the fandom (which every fandom has) represents the entire fandom when this is simply not true. The media needs to realize that they are contributing to cancel culture. I’ve never wanted to keep anyone out for any reason but I feel like that doesn’t matter as I’m kinda ashamed to call myself a Star Wars fan as I don’t have a Twitter page at all yet I still have to deal with even the most fair minded CZcamsrs I follow call Star Wars fans toxic. The problem is that any differing opinions from either side can get you branded a sexist or not a real fan depending on which side you are on. Because of that discussion can’t happen and the problem perpetuates.
ULGROTHA yep Ghostbusters is one of the first examples of this happening. The problem isn’t the inclusion of diversity, it’s the aggressive name calling, branding the entire fanbase by the media, and the cancel culture the company and media only exacerbate.
I'm guilty of gatekeeping with Rick and Morty, but mainly because the development of a more mainstream audience actively changed the show, it seemed to me. Not really my show anymore, but change and growth happens to every franchise, inevitably. I just think it's a little diluted these days.
Gatekeeping in my eyes isn't an inherently negative idea. It all depends on how it is done. For example, if you get into racing games and don't like realism, maybe you should look for arcade racing games instead of demanding for the simulation racing games to become more like arcade racers. In this case the gatekeeping would be done to help the person find what they like while also allowing the others still enjoy the thing that applies to their specific tastes. Not everything is for everyone, and that is fine. Certain topics are for more general audiences while others do very specific things. You don't have to enjoy everything, but we should also allow specific tastes to exist as well. I personally will never enjoy football, so I won't go and start making demands for football to become more alluring to fans of board games. They're different tastes and it's fine for different tastes to exist.
I think another, very similar phenomenon occurs in online computer games too; I noticed it especially in World of Warcraft, and it was one of the main reasons I eventually quit the game. A certain 'elite class' of players emerged; they were typically those who'd played it from the beginning, had all their characters at max level, had the 'perfect' build for each of their character classes and had ALL the top-tier armour and weapon for all of their characters, after years of dungeon raiding. And oh my god, were they toxic! They filled the Chat up with moaning about how the game's been 'massively dumbed down' since THEY started playing it, so now 'any noob with zero gaming skills can level up really quickly.' If you asked to join a group or dungeon, the first thing they'd do is grill you about your 'build' and inspect your armour and weapons; if you didn't have their Holy-Grail-deemed 'perfect' build, and your armour was less than elite level, they'd refuse to let you join the group or raid and openly mock you for it in the Chat. I wouldn't be at all surprised if they're the same people who become fandom gatekeepers. Oh, and is it okay if my first thought on seeing you was "OOOOH ALL THE COLOURS! I LOVE THE COLOURS!" ?
Also, the Star Wars bits really resonated tbh. I didn’t get into the fandom until TFA happened. Sure I saw the OT and PT and thought they were fine (didn’t get what warranted the sheer hatred the PT gets and still don’t but whatever igss), but they didn’t pull me into the world the way Rey, Finn, and Kylo did. TLJ brought me in further bc it slapped against all the things I love in Star Wars and fleshed them out, AND gave me the belief that I could finally have a canon Enemies to Lovers ship for once. And then the backlash happened. And TROS gave the gatekeeping reactionaries exactly what they wanted. And I got the message that what I wanted never mattered. The only ones who mattered were the ones who wanted Star Wars to remain stagnant as they hero worshipped the Jedi and spat on the idea of living redemption and making the universe about more than just cis straight white people. It sucks. And LFL hasn’t bothered to try to make me and my friends feel welcome in SW since.
Great video and a lot to digest here. I remember liking science fiction and Doctor Who when I was growing up, and being regularly teased for it and then all of a sudden -BAM- it was cool to like it.I can also think back to times where I was gatekeeping without realising (and have just discovered the term today, so thank you!) I do think that a lot of that came from this old fear of being rejected. Nowadays I just enjoy what I enjoy and try to revel in that with other fans- new and long serving! I think a lot of the problems we have with gatekeeping has to do with elitism- particularly when you haven't become a fan where you 'should have'. The lack of willingness by individuals to have a discussion without getting riled up also doesnt helpmuch either! Hopefully people will realise that it's not about excluding but including that makes a fandom.
I hate Gatekeeping. I'm a fan of a lot of different content. Star Wars in particular. Have been since I was a kid. Grew up in the 80s. But it doesn't make my Fandom of Star Wars any more valid than someone who started with the prequels. Did you become a fan of Star Wars because of Baby Yoda? Do you love him? Welcome to the Fandom :) I don't understand how that is so hard.
I remember this one time in college where I saw a college mate wearing a Junji Ito manga shirt and I fangirled over the shirt because I love Junji Ito. I told the college mate how much I love Junji Ito and he went in my face "No you're not, you don't know the manga he's made" and my reaction was "The reason why I know Junji Ito's name is because I HAVE read his manga, you asshole". Just because I don't walk around wearing an anime or manga shirt all the time, doesn't mean I'm not an anime or manga fan. It's insane.
Any time I have the urge to gatekeep I try to replace that behavior with an invitation. "Oh, you liked that? Then you'll *love* this, you should try it too!" I'm not always successful, but I try!
I love it.
Ooh I like this. I’ll try this instead of being gatekeep
I’ve felt it, esp when I “discovered” Harry Potter early, I felt I owned it somehow. What an odd feeling about something that millions of people “own.” It can indeed get to you.
a snarky comeback when you're told you're not a "real fan":
"didn't realize I was imaginary" you can even make a joke of them hallucinating you exist
That was good! I might use it if needed, with your permission.
Or send them a photo of a ceiling fan or something. Tell them they're not a real fan either.
My comeback: "Bi erasure!"
Would you call yourself a complex fan? If so, you're not a real fan either!
I'm sorry that just happened
To me the whole gatekeeping phenomenon is a little sad for another reason. It's like when people have nothing in their life to be proud of or to be contented with, they start feeling proud and superior for most arbitrary things: their place of birth, their sex etc. So that's just another manifestation of that.
How to become a better fan:
Have a higher RPM, be more energy efficient and break down less.
Haha you're obviously part of the old school Fandom. The cool new fans are blade less
Story I heard at a Comic Con (😿): This guy was explaining how as he got into anime (which wasn't widely known at his school), the school anime club had a gatekeeper as its head. He had to "pass a test" to be accepted into the club. But because he was a novice at the time, he knew nothing about Dragonball, Evangelion, Gundam, or most of the series on the test. He sadly accepted his rejection, but later went to see a cinema release of an anime film. But the club was there, and mocked him so much that it ruined the movie for him. Broke my heart. Fortunately, he found a D&D group, who had many other club "rejects", and this restored his faith in anime as something he could enjoy.
Sadly I think it's easier to unintentionally become a bully than we realize. Especially for those who were picked on for liking something "before it was cool".
Before it was cool or a necessity. Just like being into computers made you a geek or nerd in the 80's and early 90's that was insulted. Then computers became a huge part of the workplace and suddenly those 'insulters' couldn't live or work without us geeks.
When you're used to Fighting, its hard to stop
Amen 🙏🏾 I caught myself gatekeeping or hatekeeping as I call it the magical girl community. I rationalize it as I was keeping girls safe when I was really just pushing new fans from pretty cure and sailor moon. I probably lost some potential new friends. The pretty cure fandom is already toxic as it is.
@@missauroraroseblairsays I've done the same in the horror community without even realizing it. It's so easy to slip into, which is why it's so important to try and be aware of it.
As a marvel fan this hit me hard😂
My issue are “fans” who harass creators or who try to dictate what content should be who don’t know what they’re talking about. I see this most often when anyone dares to make a comic movie/tv show about a non-white/non-straight/non-male character.
BOOM. Truth bomb.
Looking fantastic today. Toxic fans are found in everything and is an unfortunate side effect of having a personal investment in a creative work.
I am a teenage girl, and, as it has always been, things liked by teenagers and especially teenage girls are mocked. I'm constantly made to feel like I can't be a fan of ttrpgs because i'm not a thirtysomething-year-old man and that i'm only playing them to impress a boy (i am a lesbian), and while my group is awesome, it's run by my friend's dad, 4/5 of us are autistic, the other players are all people i feel super comfortable around and they are always really accomadating to my health conditions, i've experienced some degree of hostility from almost every other person in the Dungeons and Dragons community in particular. That I can't be a real fan unless i've been bullied for liking D&D (does being bullied for being disabled literally every day of my life not mean anything to them?), unless i've been playing for twenty years, which is impossible given that i'm not even sixteen until december and have been playing since i was ten, and that i must only be in the community to impress a boy. i'm a lesbian, so again, impossible. i feel genuinely unsafe around a lot of men in the community and never go to events, not that that would be managable anyway.
(this turned out way more ranty than expected, sorry)
Don't apologise for writing words. This isn't a community of tl;dr people, or where anything more than 240 characters is an essay. Say what you need in as many words as you want. :-)
I can't relate to what you've been through, or will go through but if it helps just a little, go ahead knowing that you are a far better person than those people who mock you and put you down. You understand things they will probably never grasp and you understood them at an early age too. You'd think a D+D community, that is supposedly full of geeks and nerds (personally, I like those labels and don't see them as insults anymore), would have more sympathy and understanding. Yet, apparently some don't, so if those people don't want you it's their loss, stick with your group that does.
As you say, you're still young, things may change as you get older and hopefully they do. If not keep looking for groups that are accepting towards you and your needs, they will be out there - somewhere. I've never done D+D but I did do MERP as a teen and there are decent people around in the community, it's just unfortunate about the bad apples.
My best wishes to you. :-)
This is all worth saying. I went after the broad philosophical idea of gatekeeping but demographic exclusion or hostility (most often, though not exclusively, directed at females) is a very big issue. It’s when the gatekeeping goes beyond how much you know or what part you like to start excluding because of fundamental truths of who you are. Which is honestly even more messed up and damaging, but not something I felt equipped to try and tackle here.
Oh, as a teenage girl I WAS the one in our group who _bought_ the D&D books and was the Dungeon Master, so I totally got where you were coming from. Nowadays there's more of a mix in Dragon's Keep, but when I used to go in there in say, 1990, I always got kind of that startled reaction. So...basically I got away with it because if they wanted to play D&D AT ALL, they _had_ to play with a girl. :P
And as for demographic gatekeeping and gaming...see my own comment here about being gatekept away from VIDEO gaming...(including PC). "Ewww, you like _casual_ games? PHONE games? Get away from me you filthy peasant!" Or how you're not a REAL gamer unless you're playing something that involves being screamed at like a piece of filth and a chance to get S.W.A.T.ed. Not to mention that a lot of the percieved "girly"est games WERE MADE BY GUYS and have large male fanbases. Sims, anyone...?
And, I'm very happy to see Lwaves's comment about "don't apologise for writing words". I've always been a long-winded person when I get onto a subject I'm passionate about and it's SO refreshing to _not_ be hit with "tl;dr". :D
@@robinchesterfield42 tl;dr
Sorry, I just couldn't resist doing that jokily, I'm in a playful mood today and thank you kindly for the compliment.
As a guy, I like the Sims although I'm losing faith with the franchise and what they're doing with it. The new open world mod looks interesting though and I'm looking forward to Paralives as it has great potential.
As a gamer, it saddens me the amount of times I see comments similar to "they're a girl so they're not a proper gamer" or "it's really a man playing as a female isn't that good." It's complete bollox, brought about by ignorance and their own feelings of insecurity. I'm not knocking the games (or youngsters) with this but it makes me laugh at how the games those people recommend, seem to be predominantly played by kids.
Games are for everyone, wherever you are, whoever you are and however much you play. Play what you enjoy and hopefully enjoy what you play. :-)
As a thirty something year old afab who’s been playing since she was a kid, I’d like to tell you it gets better, but really, you do get better at dealing with it, and you do find ur core group where no one cares about ur age/gender. It can take a while, but don’t give up. There are good ones out there.
It felt good to hear that a part of possessiveness in your generation and mine stems from the fact that we remember a time where it was really "not cool" to like these things. I remember when we did a video project at school and I was 15 or so. I suggested doing a sci-fi story. And the guys in my group turned to me and one said "Do you want people to think that you're even weirder than they already do?" - I never forgot that. It's wonderful that we can now enjoy these things that we love and we shouldn't keep others from enjoying them just bc they don't agree with everything that we think.
Also: Your joke at the beginning was perfect ;-)
I had similar thing with animation. While, as far as I'm aware, among the younger gen Z it is relatively cool or at least accepted to like anomated stuff as a teen when I, an older gen Z (born in 1997), was in my younger teens it was NOT. If someone saw me renting animated films I'd lie, saying I only take them because I have to hang out with my little cousin because otherwise I'd be called a baby or a weird or whatever. It might be different for other older gen Z people, but where i live fandom culture has only really started to become more mainstream a few years ago.
But you know what? As bitter as I can be, those moments only last for a while. I am GLAD kids today can enjoy things I couldn't without judgement. I'm not a 'I wish you had it as bad as I did' kind od person because that just sounds callous and mean. I hate when people say that to me, why would I say or think that about others?
I am of similar age to Nathaniel and I too remember that being into computers and sci-fi was considered 'weird' and not cool. As a teenager I would enjoy my Star Trek and Babylon 5 etc at home but simply not talk about it at school (the only 'cool' sci-fi we could share was Red Dwarf). It didn't really bother me too much, its just how it was, until I went to uni and was outed as a Trekkie by my roommate to the rest of the class! 😡 The only upside was at the same time I joined a Trek/Sci-fi club and found a huge group of people who not only enjoyed the same stuff I did (some much more than me in fact) but didn't judge me or care what branch of sci-fi I was into. It was one of the greatest feelings, to find like-minded people and helped me just ignore the 'non-nerds' and the loose lipped roommate. 😁
I find it humorous that these days the things that were once hidden away because they were deemed uncool are now widely accepted and probably you're not cool if you don't like them! How things turn around; at least perhaps more people can openly enjoy what they like without judgement or ridicule. The more fans there are the more the fandom evolves and more opinions can be heard which surely can only be a good thing.
Another type of fandom gatekeeping I often encountered when growing up was more of a financial/possessive one.
The you can't be a fan unless you own all the books/dvds and at least this amount of merch kind of gatekeeping.
That bs probably also still a thing in fandom today.
My favourite thing in the world is introducing someone to their new favourite thing. Don't gatekeep your favourite stuff when it's easier and more enjoyable to show someone what you love and why you love it.
I've been doing this with my friend over lockdown. She's enjoyed everything I've shown her. It's so exciting to introduce :)
You make me smile and I'm happy to see your face!
I'm a little disappointed that the thumbnail didn't use the Gates of Hell from Dante's Inferno.
Truth. I've seen many fandoms suffer because of this BS.
I used to be a borderline gatekeeper three years ago. Then I came across this post on Pinterest about books. It said "Whenever you find someone who hasn't read the same books has you have, never shame them into reading them. Encourage them. And then be prepared for their reaction which is going to be always different from yours." I started applying this idea to every fandom I was a part of. I introduced a friend to Marvel in the same way. I told her "There are people jumping off stuff, defeating the bad guys and there is hilarious banter, you should try watching these, you'll find them really fun" and guess what? She's a marvel fan now. She went to watch Endgame in the theatres and absolutely loved it. It was so heartwarming. I have tried to introduce my other friends to DW, they enjoyed it but couldn't get into it that much and I was still okay with that. Me, from 3 years ago, wouldn't be. But I am now a much more positive fan. Thank you for talking about gatekeeping fandoms. This is one my favourite videos of yours 😍
I can remember a time when I was little (and where I lived) that being a fan of something geeky carried a stigma that few people wanted to bear, so we kept our fandom hidden. This was when quoting from your favourite TV show or movie became a signal to try to find 'your people'. Those who weren't fans wouldn't understand it, but those that were found instant identification with someone else who loved what you love. Other than Star Wars, you couldn't really buy merch for anything either, so there was no outward identification. It did feel like a cool little in-group, and we never questioned anyone's 'loyalty' because there seemed to be so few of us that we were just happy to find someone- anyone- who shared something in common.
Now that fandom has become a humongous industry, there's no feeling of in-group anymore unless it's self-created. I now hesitate to self identify with any fandom because I don't want to run into some self-appointed gatekeeper. So I'll buy some merch, I'll wear the occasional t-shirt, I'll have phone/computer backgrounds and screensavers of my favourites, but I've backed away from the fan communities I used to enjoy because I'm tired of someone testing my "loyalty".
Small communities are the best. One of the best internet communities I’ve been in is ya book tumblr because we’re like all girls around the same age so we have similar mindsets (so no disliking /discrediting others just because of gender or age) and there’s no gatekeeping or toxic fans because a lot of teenagers don’t read books anymore so everyone was just happy to interact with people. But at the same time it also wasn’t hard to find people to talk to in real life without taking bets because of course they’re gonna be in the same section of the bookstore as you are!
You know what's exhausting though? Being the only one knowing the stories from the comics and being asked after watching a MCU movie, which parts were done right and which not. I'd rather enjoy the movies for what they are and not compare them to the comics.
Every single one of the points you made applies to music as well. As a fan of rock and metal I see this kind of gate keeping and backlash against new fans or against a band changing its sound all the time. I think part of it comes from people feeling like what made being a fan of that thing special was the fact that the community was small and once something blows up that is no longer the case. But like you said, there is no reason to take your frustrations out on other people who are enjoying the works. I, personally, love getting my friends into the music, TV shows, or creators that I like because I want to be able to share the joy not just keep it all for myself.
You often see comments about people who discover bands or songs because they've heard them in video games or TV programmes. People sometimes say outright that you shouldn't be allowed to listen if that's how you discovered it.
I myself have been guilty of gatekeeping. When I was 12, I started playing Kingdom Hearts and what attracted me to the series was the presence of Disney characters like Mickey and Hercules. At school, I would try to talk to my fellow Disney fans about it, and I got the same response: "What's Kingdom Hearts?" This pretty much struck a nerve with me and I had the mindset of "If you've never heard of or played Kingdom Hearts, then you're not a real Disney fan!" Now I'm 20, and I've let go of that toxic belief. These days if I meet a fellow Disney fan who's never been involved with Kingdom Hearts, I'll be happy to tell them about it and recommend it.
Gatekeeping is also sadly present in cosplay, especially towards POC (and even black people and Muslims). Gatekeepers will always tell POC cosplayers to cosplay characters that share the same skin tone, this can negatively affect the POC and even force them to quit cosplaying. I am African American and Bengali, I can cosplay Esmeralda or Tiana and no one will bat an eye. I've always wanted to cosplay Rey and I am aware that people will see it and angrily tell me that I cannot cosplay her because of our different skin tones. If I had gotten into cosplay as a kid (which was back when I felt out of place due to my skin tone), and people came at me with "You can't cosplay X! You're black and they're white!", I would have been saddened. Nowadays, I feel more comfortable with myself as a person of color and I plan on throwing in a cultural twist on future cosplays.
Sis tell me about it. I feel your pain as a black latinex I only have Tiana, Storm, Katara and few others to cosplay and I’m sadly lighter than most them. Also Yay Bengali my moms husband is Bengali!
I was made fun of for liking Lord of the Rings and Star Trek in the early 90s, so when I found out there were other people like me when I went to university, it was exhilarating. Until I discovered that as an AFAB person, nobody would EVER consider me a "real fan" like you describe so accurately. It's not just "people who hold the same opinions as me" that's a part of gatekeeping, it's also "people who look like me". For a few years, I tried to "prove" my fanhood by being more knowledgeable than the gatekeepers, but in the end I just gave up. I'm no longer calling myself a fan of anything, simply to avoid some white cishet male challenging my right to the fan label. It's too exhausting.
My theory on why this sort of gatekeeping happens boils down to a concept of 'social capital'. This sounds like a complicated way of putting it, but it's something that even children inherently understand-- that different people have different sorts of talents and commodities to offer society at large. This can be exemplified by the way that schoolchildren (particularly the older ones in high school) instinctually organize themselves into cliques. Each clique has a different sort of social capital. Physical strength and athletic aptitude can be social capital-- the kids with an abundance of those types comprise the jocks. Physical attractiveness can be social capital, too. So can intellect, academic aptitude, and specialized technical knowledge. And of course, money is another form of social capital. Basically, it's anything you possess which allows you to appear valuable to others.
I'm in my mid-thirties now. Decades ago, when I was growing up, pop culture knowledge was *not* seen as a very useful form of social capital-- the only people who appreciated it were those who also possessed the same knowledge, and enjoyed the same types of pop culture. Hence, people labeled with that type of knowledge were seen as geeks, and were largely ostracized and berated by the other social strata. However, in recent times, there's sort of been a sea change in geekdom, especially as Hollywood has taken notice of sci-fi and superhero franchises as legitimate properties. Suddenly, "geek" knowledge *is* a valid form of social capital-- being able to reference a movie you saw or a comic you read or a game you played on the fly in casual conversation is seen as a valid social skill. Pop culture has reached a real point of oversaturation, and so many people have been exposed that dropping a passing reference to the TARDIS or a joke about Iron Man make people seem more relatable and charismatic. Years ago, when Blockbuster was still a thing, I forced myself to rent and watch a ton of highly-regarded movies that I had never actually seen before, because I was convinced it would aid my social skills. And it totally worked-- in our society, interaction thrives on shared experience. People these days *speak in references--* they've become an entire subtextual language! It's the reason that meme culture has exploded on the internet. A lot of people cling jealously to their fandoms, because it's the thing they perceive that they do better than other people. Jocks are better at sports, rich kids are rich... and geeks have more obscure knowledge about Star Trek or Doctor Who. It's a form of experience, because they've invested large amounts of their life to understanding the inner workings of these franchises.
Gatekeeping, then, is basically the same sort of behavior that you see from anyone who has been hoarding resources for their own self-fulfillment (like, for example, the super-rich). Finally, fandoms based on geeky pastimes have been afforded some amount of leverage over social situations, and many of the people in those fandoms have lifetimes of feeling powerless. To their perception, they finally have a bit of power-- and while true fans might like to share with others the things they love about their chosen franchise, people in positions of power rarely share it with others willingly. From their perspective, it's in their rational self-interest to maintain a status quo that excludes disparate voices.
I get the sense that a lot of the gate-keeping around mass media products in particular has to do with the "vote with your wallet" ideology. People think that by controlling the character of the consumer group they can influence artistic direction.
About a year ago, I did the math to work out how long it would take me to read all Doctor Who novels, comics, listen to the Audios, and watch all the Classics. I forget how long it was (I think I was gonna a cram it into seventy years?), but the number's not the point. I wasn't interested in 'completing' Doctor Who because I wanted to, it was because I felt _obliged_ to. The goal was never to get through everything. Just enough to be considered a fan.
I think it was just six months ago I found out about Lawrence Miles and the Wilderness Years and whatnot, and I felt pretty bad, honestly. There was a whole (albeit niche) era of the show which only an elite group of fans were privy to, and I felt a little pressured to be among those ranks if I was to continue saying 'I know everything about the show.' Only now that the Doctor Who CZcams Channel have begun uploading old videos do I realise that I actually know quite a bit. For each video they post, I comment one or two insights into the production and direction, which people seem to appreciate. I love Doctor Who, and I'm always gonna be expanding my knowledge of the show; exploring different mediums. But I don't feel _obliged_ to anymore. If 2004-2010 is the only era of the show which I'm intimately familiar with, then I'm okay with that. That doesn't make me a lesser fan, and it doesn't make me more of a fan. It's just nice to be fanatic.
You're absolutely right, this doesn't just happen in geeky fandoms or comic-book-sci-fi fandoms! I've seen people VICIOUSLY debate what it means to be a true Jane Austen fan. *cackles in British period drama*
Oh noooo...
As someone who loves Austen's work, this actually intrigues me deeply. I'm sure I'd hate to be in that mess, but what kind of gatekeeping do you get in that sphere? Is it just "You're only a real fan if you've read the books" or do people claim that to be a real fan you must have seen/liked specific screen adaptations?
@@eclecticdog2k901 So "you're only a real fan if you've read the books" definitely plays into it--but the BIGGEST one I remember is "you're only a real fan if you love the 1995 Pride & Prejudice adaptation and acknowledge it as the Only Legitimate Adaptation." People who had the gall to enjoy the 2005 movie (ie, me) were deeply scorned. xD
@@katiehanna90 Ahh, I see. I'm somewhat aware of that particular conflict, but I've only seen the '95 miniseries, so I can't have an opinion about which is better yet. I'm glad you enjoy that movie!
@@eclecticdog2k901 Thanks! I think the '95 movie is definitely well done (especially Colin Firth's performance), but I prefer Keira Knightley's interpretation of Elizabeth in the '05.
@@katiehanna90 Oh, interesting! I'll definitely have to check it out sometime then. :-D
What are your thoughts on any other Jane Austen books/adaptations you may have consumed?
It is tough watching something you love being changed for new viewers. I recall when 'finally' Start Trek The Next Generation aired. It was good and perhaps better than the original, but would never be 'my' Star Trek. It had to be changed for a new generation of viewers. It takes something like Sherlock Holmes where there is an established canon of 9 books. Add any movies or audio shows, but there are 9 books. New TV series come and go, but the source was 100 years old and has stood the test of time. I don't like to like it, but I know new stories have that I loved years ago has to have viewers to survive. Great commentary.
you're the wisest person on this entire platform, i swear
Does thinking fandom hierarchies shouldn’t exist make you a fandom anarchist?
Yes and I'm so here for this!
anny05 “Dismantle the unjust fandom hierarchies!” That would be so cool XD
There's a really good academic piece by Kristina Busse called Geek hierarchies, boundary policing, and the gendering of the good fan which points out the flaws and injustices in fandom hierarchies that I totally recommend... I think it's free to access as well!
Ruby Price That sounds interesting! I’ll check it out
I feel your profile picture goes with this video subject spectacularly. Oh, Pokémon elitists...
A rule of thumb I just avoid Twitter to avoid toxic fandom.
Yes Twitter is bad but CZcams and Reddit aren't innocent in spreading toxic fandom either
I'm sorry, but YOU AND YOUR MAKEUP ARE ABSOLUTELY STUNNING IN THIS VIEOD AND I LOVE UR NAIL POLISH 💖💖💖💖💕💕💕
The way I look at it is like a burger. Just because I choose to pick out the tomato and the pickle on the burger, doesn't mean I hate the burger as a whole. And the same goes for fandoms. If someone doesn't like a particular aspect of something, doesn't mean they hate the thing as a whole. Everyone has their preferences and unique tastes. If everyone in a fandom liked the same parts can you imagine how boring that would be?
Good metaphor!
I've been told so many times that I'm not a Doctor Who "fan" because I didn't like the stories from the newest seasons. Been called a misogynist and didn't like the Doctor being a woman or the companions blah blah blah that I just keep my opinions to myself in my fandoms and its depressing. For the record I don't care that the Doctor is a woman i just expect good storytelling and entertainment and I just wasn't with the new episodes. :(
That definitely doesn't make you a fake fan! I do like the new seasons (Series 11 in particular reminds me of the William Hartnell years), but it's the exact opposite of "fake" to have an honest opinion.
Thank you for this video! I absolutely agree with you. I left the Star Wars fandom years ago because it was so toxic. As a Doctor Who geek, I’m thankful for your CZcams channel, as well as the positive DW podcasts I’ve found and a wonderful DW Facebook community where gatekeeping is not allowed.
I think gatekeeping is a manifestation of our insecurities . . . We feel protective over our favs and our relationship to it. There’s a nasty validation in thinking that YOU understand and appreciate it more than others and that makes your love of it more valid and special . . . I say this because I’ve been in that mentality, and it’s really petty and sad.
You know what, you got me by the intro ALREADY! hahahaha GENIUS!!! I was actually looking for a video to understand better the concept of the word GATEKEEPING (I'm actually a brazilian guy who loves english content) and I found your channel! Now I can say that I REALLY understand it. The interesting thing is that I've experienced gatekeeping on being an artist here in my city, there are people who think they are the real ones or the true ones and I think I can apply to that. I also felt guilty about being that toxic fan hahahahaha but hey, that's lame actually. Thanks and congrats on the content, you're pretty amazing!
Just go on CZcams, you'll find a plethora of people who actively despise the new fans on Doctor Who who joined with Whittaker
I hate the fact that I watched one of these videos just so that I could see what people had a problem with and CZcams thought I then wanted to watch every single one of them from my homepage
There was a similar thing, for different reasons, between some classic Who fans and what was then new Who back in 2005. If you came from classic and liked the new show, then you weren't a 'true' or 'real' fan, according to those people. Thankfully they were a minority but they still existed.
A lot of those people also seem to be part of the 'anti-SJW' hatewagon and I think that's telling.
@@RubyPrice One option there is "incognito mode" or whatever your browser-of-choice uses for private browsing - as long as you don't log in from that window, it doesn't know who you are.
@@lwaves Oh totally, I remember so well how the new Who fans (2005 --) were derided by old Who fans for their shipping and squeeing (because Doctor Who is serious business - heaven forbid anyone actually having fun with it!).
There is of course a flip side to this. When they try to quote remake A beloved franchise, such as Teen Titans, Thundercats, or She-Ra and then when fans of the original serieses tries to say that this does not appeal to them they are labeled -ists and -phobes. They are told that a product obviously designed to cash in on their nostalgia is not for them. They are told by the fans of the new shows, over social media, and even in the shows themselves that the original product that they once loved is now something deserving of mockery and ridicule
Are you not really a secret psychologist? Everytime you post something that can be taken as controversial, you approach it head on, no bs but with empathy and understanding, and that's not easy. Thank you for this!
I remember gatekeeping back as far as the 1980s when I was a teenager. It was often used to exclude people of colour, or those deemed too young to appreciate a cultural entity. I was really into goth music and fashion back then and was 'barred' from entry to goth communities. It also happened with women and punk the decade before. You're right about gatekeeping potentially causing the extinction of the culture in question, but I don't find this practice as bad as it used to be, especially, as you point out, so many fandoms have entered the mainstream.
If anyone ever tells me they’re nervous for entering a fandom because they’re new, I tell them “what matters is that you’re here now.”
Gatekeeping is one of the reasons I fell out of an entire "genre" you might say.
I was one of those 90's kids that was first introduced to Anime through Pokemon and Digimon as a kid, then cemented my love in my teens through Toonami with DBZ, Gundam (Wing, G and 08th), Rurouni Kenshin and Sailor Moon. By the time I hit college I considered myself a full blown Otaku.
And then I met some of the other fans who would shape my experience going forward.
I got some of the basics you see in other fandoms: Which shows are superior and which are for "casuals"; "Princess Mononoke is superior to Castle in the Sky or Kiki's Delivery Service". "Neon Genesis Evangelion is a masterpiece every fan needs to watch". "Fans of Naruto and Bleach are just bandwagoning, you should at least have seen Cowboy Bebop". But because of the type of medium it was, I was conditioned (and I do mean that with every negative connotation that word has) to prefer sub over dub, and disregard any manga that isn't printed right to left.
I bought it for a while. I purchased Cowboy Bebop, despite not getting into it as fervently as Naruto. I put some manga back that weren't printed the "correct" way, missing out on stories I otherwise might have enjoyed. To this day I still have to make a concerted effort to listen to the dub of an anime I may watch despite missing what's going on with the top half of the screen because instinctively I want to still believe that "the dub can't represent the true intent of the anime the way the sub can". But after leaving college and not interacting with the die-hard portion of the anime community, I started to realize the flimsiness and (in some cases) outdated nature of their arguments. And seeing where the "popular" anime has gone and knowing what I know about that side of the fandom, I don't want to go back. I may occasionally watch an anime that comes on Netflix, but I loathe to consider myself a "fan" lest I delve into that caste system again. And the fact I typed that sentence out with such conviction saddens me...
I remember when I was eleven or twelve, announcing at summer camp that I liked Star Wars. Most people either didn’t care or thought it was cool. One boy, however, thought that I couldn’t be a real Star Wars fan because I was a girl. He insisted on quizzing me on Star Wars minutiae to find out whether I was a “real” fan. I don’t remember the exact outcome, but I think he did end up acknowledging me. We still never got along, though.
I’ve also been jokingly told I can’t be a Star Wars fan because I like Star Trek too.
I’m also a huge shipper, although it depends on the fandom. And I’ve heard many times from multiple people that shippers are what make fandoms toxic, and with the implication being that only shippers are the problem.
I was going to say that I don’t recall having done any gatekeeping myself, but then I remembered how incredulous I felt when I heard from my younger cousin that his favorite SW movie was “Revenge of the Sith,” which I thought was the worst of the prequel trilogy. (I know my opinion is the minority.) Fortunately, I never told him that. I managed to keep my feelings to myself.
Pop culture elitism is the most infuriating part of being in fandoms. It makes me so freaking mad.
Excited for this one! My MA is in participatory cultures and social media and we did a large section on toxic fandom so I’m interested to hear your take on it!
So thoughts after watching:
I completely agree with the points about fandoms completely cannibalising themselves recently, when Jodie Whittaker was voted as the second most popular Doctor in the Radio Times poll, I saw a lot of people saying that it must be new fans or fair weather fans because no real fan of Doctor Who would have voted for her as their favourite Doctor... Which is a load of rubbish tbh.
I had a lot of people saying that the only reason I liked Game of Thrones season 8 was because I only became a fan after season 7 had already aired and hadn't devoted over 8 years of my life to the show I didn't even know existed until there were already five seasons out. (To clarify, I do see most of the problems that people point out about the season but for me, the only 'poor' episode was the finale).
I think the worst thing about toxic fandom that has sprung up seems to be the idea that fans own a franchise and if something within that franchise doesn't please them, case and point Season 8 of Thrones, series 11 and 12 of Doctor Who or Star Wars The Last Jedi, then the fans have a right to demand that something be struck from canon or it be remade. Whilst I can sympathise with fans for not enjoying something, I think the sheer arrogance on display by trying to refute the validity of a piece of media, especially when there are people out there who have enjoyed it, and write these people off as not true fans or as hacks. It irks me to a crazy degree and I'm totally not here for it.
I've seen a lot of people who seem to actually want Doctor Who to be cancelled and put on the shelf again by the BBC rather than them continue with Chris Chibnall and Jodie Whittaker at the helm which I think is just insulting to both the production teams associated with the show and the fans who have been enjoying it!
Really good video! Left me thinking and inspired!
On DW and SW, there are those saying that Chibnall and Johnson respectively aren’t real fans and were out to “ruin”, “destroy” these properties... and that enrages me. You may not think this was the right direction for the series, but you don’t get to decide that these people aren’t also fans.
@Najawin couldn't it then be said that Tennant fans might have done the same thing? I'll admit the poll was flawed, but it's also possible that more people like Whittaker as the Doctor than you'd expect...
Rebecca Woolf based on that logic, shouldn’t the rankings basically be in chronological order then?
Very well said, Nathaniel.
Btw, just a side-note, _if you don't support her on Patreon, you're not good enough and will be exiled with immediate effect._
As Star Trek Star Wars and Doctor Who fan since very young age and by Young I mean in the 70s a few days ago I went to a convenience store to grab something young man behind the counter probably younger than both my children. Told me how much he loved my doctor who t-shirt. He then said I loved the season with Matt Tennant. I smiled I didn't make an attempt to correct him because he's a fan he likes to show he may not be as into it as I am or someone else but he still a fan.
Isn't gatekeeping basicly the no true scotsman fallacy?
Well, that's a good point. I rather think so.
Yeah pretty much.
I used to be a bit of a gatekeeper when it came to the fandoms I was more invested in - for example I used to think that people who had only seen the LOTR movies and never read the books (or stuff like the Silmarillion) were just lazy and should not consider themselfs fans. Until I found myself on the other side of it, where I was a much more casual fan of something like Star Wars (I have watched the movies and some of the TV shows but have never read any of the books or comics) and people told that was not good enough.
After that I learned to be more welcoming and encouraging to new/less invested people in the fandoms I am more knowledgeable of and not take it to heart, when other fans tell me I don't belong as a casual fan.
Being casual fan isn’t some to sad about. I wish I knew this. I’m a causal fan to Persona, I only played the 4th and 5th game. I wasn’t bored until the 90s and had limited experience with jrpgs (my family was very religious like “video games’ are the devil religious) so I understand the shame of not being a hardcore Jrpg gamer.
This video it's so great and it has so many layers that you can apply to a lot of things, it's like the multiverse itself. I watched it and I was just replacing some words you've said and it served me like I was having a conversation about some things that are going on. I know my comments are out of the main theme somehow but I guess it shows how amazing the content was and this theme is definitely something to discuss and study in deeper levels of knowledge, but I can also tell that your video covered it all.
This is why I stopped visiting web boards to discuss the various fandoms with people. It made me realize that I, not that long ago, tended to be a gatekeeper of sorts. I didn't do it out of spite originally, I just loved these fandoms so much that I wanted everyone else to experience the things I loved on the same level. "You like Star Wars? Have you read this book and this comic?" "You like watching The Flash? I can give you a list of comics that you will really dig!" I tried to invite people deeper into those spaces. However, the old days of the ancient imdb web boards turned me into the grumpy old man for quite a while.
I remember it starting with Smallville, and then going on to the CW DC shows. Mostly it was fights with shippers (I'll leave my opinions of that practice for another day) who would whine about how relationships were written or set up. One time I tried explaining to a TV only fan that two characters were comic book canon, and they simply replied "I've never read a comic book, and never will". Those people I have absolutely no patience for. I want everyone to feel included in any fandom I'm a part of, but the minority who come into a fandom and try to bully creators to change things because they want it done their way (and yes, I know full well this includes the old guard as well, because I fight with my fellow old people), those people are just as much to blame for the toxic fandoms.
Sorry for getting long winded, ma'am. This was an excellent video, and I always look forward to your content.
I am somewhat jealous of the children for the ease they have had. But I am so happy for them to have that ready community that we never had access to until we were older.
I am definitely happy, not jealous... Well, not too much. 😉
I always try to be welcoming. I'm open to all fans but if somebody just starting to get into something challenges me or my knowledge of the topic, THEY WILL FACE MY GEEK WRATH. But with all seriousness I try to be nice to anybody because they are all fans. New fans also have to remember not to pretend to know more than the fans who are more knowledgeable (not better just know more about the topic). JUST BE NICE TO EACH OTHER
We older fans often get accused of gatekeeping but I've talked to Nu Trek fans and NONE of them are interested in Discovery or the new movies interacting with Trek's past. They don't want it to come anywhere near it. They may not care about the old canon but they don't want anyone getting dirt on THEIR brand new canon!
Great video and very thoughtful as always. Pretty much anyone who is a passionate fan of something will be a more casual fan of something else, somewhere in the life. They should remember that before they start criticising others in this way. As Nathaniel quite rightly says, more knowledgeable fan yes, better fan definitely not.
The web comic xkcd had a strip that illustrated how I try to modify my tendency to say incredulously, "How can you not have seen that????" Google xkcd ten thousand.
That is such an enjoyable mentality to take. 👍
I think the best way for people to avoid the feeling of being gatekept is to rediscover the art of of lurking. Before you join a message board, read it for awhile without posting. Before attending a convention, talk to people who have previously attended it. Subgroups within fandoms have every right to exist and have their own cultures, etiquette and scope of what they encompass. It's a good idea to learn if one is a good fit for you before jumping in and, if for whatever reason it doesn't seem to be, it's better to just leave it be and find another that is or possible even create it. Nobody likes someone who comes into their house and tries to rearrange the furniture, but the great thing about the internet is that real estate is basically free.
I LOVE meeting new fans of my fandom, and you should too! In some ways, it’s like being able to re-live those exciting moments when you first discover new books or episodes. Think back when you were a new fan, and how exciting it was to make new discoveries! How would you have liked an “old pro” to have treated you? Can you enhance their experience? What can you show them at the stage they are now that will help the, get more excited without giving the, spoilers?? Be a big bro/sis, not a playground bully.
Exactly! As a Doctor Who fan, this is one of my biggest pleasures, and it's built into the structure of the show itself, as experiencing things you already know through fresh eyes is one of the reasons the Doctor takes on companions!
I have been a fan of the walking dead since i was 6 or 7(i'm 16 now). I would NEVER want to keep people from experiencing the joy....and sadness...but overall happiness I've felt watching the show. I grew up with this show. It's a part of my life. Gatekeeping this show or anything else i'm into is something I have never felt the need to do. I just wish people would let others enjoy these things as well.
Good job on your make-up. Looks great.!!! Awesome topic. Enjoyed your take!!
My first experience of fandom was Transformers, and EVERYTHING you said here was true there. I joined the on line community just as the michael bay films were being developed. And boy did the term “true fan” get thrown around randomly at ANYONE who was a fan of beast wars or generation two it really pissed me off then and has gotten more frustrating as transformers has added more and more incarnations. At this point I’ve checked out of actively engaging “fans” most of the time as gatekeeping just pisses me off.
Have to admit I’m a little guilty of this type of thing. For some reason I’d say things like: “You’re not a true DW unless you’ve seen An Unearthly Child.” Which I never meant all too seriously but it’s still a douchie thing to say. You shouldn’t have to meet specific requirements to be a fan of something.
I feel where you're coming from and I largely agree. I think there should be room for fans of varying degrees within fandoms. I can be a long time fan of SW & respect the opinion of new fans or casual fans.
There is, however, something to be said about fandom integrity (a cringey term, I know lol). When we have folks who aren't just new blood, but new fans who declare themselves the "real fans" or the ones who "really get it". They were either apathetic to the franchise, or actively despised it, until they found one thing to like about it. Now that thing is "what the franchise truly is" and they have to defend this one portion of the franchise to the death.
There are some fans, or stans as I like to call them, who obsess over part of the franchise and can't allow any disagreement. So if you say something bad about their favorite character or storyline, they can't even let you say your opinion without trying to silence you. They lie about you, put words in your mouth, and make you out to be a villain.
These folks aren't "bad fans" for having different opinions. They're bad because they're causing vitriolic division among the fandom & making everything a real life issue. I could voice my displeasure with the 13th Doctor and fans can have a back and forth reasonably, or just agree to disagree. But stans will ignore any genuine criticism I say and go "you just hate her bcuz you hate women". THAT is toxic & imo that's what's killing fandom spaces right now.
12 likes, 0 dislikes, before the video has even started; now thats how you know you've made it!
Thank you for covering this topic, I've encountered gatekeeping in the past that turned me away until I found the "right" people to geek out with
I don't recall ever having encountered gatekeepers - every fan, of every fandom I've had an interest in, has been of the "Welcome, read this, it's amazing, you're gonna love it!" type. I strongly suspect I have been lucky in that.
Having said that, I wonder if gatekeeping is part of a desire to "protect" The Tribe from outsiders. "These are my people, and this gate that you must go through is a way for me to stop you coming in." - possibly coupled with a fear of the gatekeeper losing their "exclusive" status as The Fandom is "diluted" with these not-real-fans.
Just random Sunday morning thoughts in response to another thought-inspiring video.
I personally still don't get how people can be okay with being gatekeepers. I have fandoms I'm really passionate about and whenever someone new comes in or I find another fan at all I'm really excited to share what I love. I'm especailly excited when we get newcomers cuz the fandoms I've been in the longest have been kinda dead so to see new people discovering it just makes me happy. More people to talk to about what I love.
Same. It's never been an impulse that I've ever had or understood. I always find it frustrating when someone engages in it.
I'm definitely one of the, "You haven't seen/read this? Oh, cool, you will love it!"
All this is true but ngl, it wasn’t easy seeing the ‘cool kids’ start wearing batman T-shirts when they’d kicked the shit outta me for doing the same a year before
The subject of gatekeeping reminds me of when I started reading The Beano as a kid and thought that I needed to be interested in all of the strips to be a true fan, despite the fact that I found some of them quite boring and rarely took any notice of them. I know it’s not exactly the same thing, but I just find it interesting how there is a common conceit that it’s necessary to be interested in every aspect of a fandom to be a part of it.
Firstly, you look absolutely stunning.
Your make up is totally on point🙂
Secondly, its often scary to state your person opinion in a fandom if it conflicts with popular opinions as you can be attacked for them and ganged up on and thats what I hate the most.
Im a simple girl, I dont mind an open debate - share your thoughts too - just don't slam a person or gang up on them to tell them why "the popular opinion is THE ONLY opinion".
Its sad.
Charles Dickens: *Wonders what keeping gates has to do with a means of keeping one’s self cool*
I have a story to share about something that could easily have been labeled gatekeeping behavior, but ultimately did help me enjoy a game more.
So, I was playing Monster Hunter 4 Ultimate online. I really didn't know what I was doing, picking armor based mostly on looks and defense numbers. But in that game, there's a "skills" system I had failed to grasp- each armor piece has points that count towards certain skills, or passive effects that make the hunt easier.
Someone online called me out for not having any if these skills on my character due to my haphazard armor setup. And so when I came back to that room with an armor setup that granted skills, my actions within that game changed for the better- ultimately, once I had a more complete grasp on that system, I would never go into a hunt without a proper set that granted skills ever again. And even when playing alone, this became an extremely helpful habit that made each hunt that much more manageable. I crafted complete set after complete set and was rewarded with boons to my character's performance. And I wouldn't have known about this if someone more knowledgable hadn't pointed that out to me.
It's really sad to me how many people say "yeah I was interested in x thing, but the fandom is so toxic, I don't wanna bother." Just let people like things, why is that so difficult?
Well said, Nathaniel! I've recently got into the fandom of a show that ran from 1984 - 1994. Everyone I've spoken to has been really welcoming. I wish more fandoms were like that. There are days when I'm a bit sad to be in the Doctor Who fandom.
I had difficulties understanding the toxicity of fandoms at first because I got lucky when I entered them. Looking back, I was _really_ lucky. Star Wars came out while I was in grade school, and while it was new enough to be "different", I wasn't the only one with a Star Wars costume that Halloween. (The two others were both boys, one as Vader and the other a fairly tall Jawa - and I was jealous that he was able to make working lights for the eyes.)
D&D was similar. Fairly new, any new players were welcome in the high school group. The group at the Air Force Base (this was overseas, so essentially a small community), women (or in my case teenage girls) were welcomed with enthusiasm by adults who were, honestly, mostly not much older than myself. (And being that about half that group were in the same unit as my father, I was quickly relegated to "little sister" status by the majority, but that's a different dynamic.)
It was then somewhat bizarre to discover, some fifteen to twenty-plus years later, that "girls don't play D&D" or "girls don't read comics" or... you get the picture. And it was interesting that it was people younger than myself saying this. And when I would pipe up that "sure we do!", I'd get this condescending look... followed by a glance away when I didn't back down.
And while part of me would like to drop blame on a "second gen" of fandom... fans in my own age bracket aren't much better. Many seem to have forgotten how great it was to find someone else that really liked the same things we did, and different viewpoints were things to share, not fight against. And there are even some of the really young fans with the same "trufan" frenzy, and that makes me truly depressed.
I sometimes wonder if it isn't a matter of numbers, as in, we have so many more fans as our interests become more "mainstream" (a word I hate but haven't found a better version as of this writing), that the law of averages means we get gatekeepers as a matter of course... but I don't know.
It also leads to people apologising for no reason. I have had people apologise to me because they don't like the book or film, or genre or company, or whatever I openly am a fan of. And it always confuses me because: why would I care if we don't have the same opinion? As long as you respect that I like this thing, I'll respect that you don't.
Watching this made realise that these people probably met a sub-sort of Gatekeeper - the "how-can-you-NOT-like-this-fandom?" person. Which is probably as bad as the "You're-not-a-real-fan-UNLESS...."
You said "individuals have their own opinion".
Also - love your makeup, absolutely fabulous.
Back in my day, a lot of peole were made fun of for liking anime. Although it has enjoyed itself in the mainstream eye, I still have my memories of being deliberately gatekeeped out of anime.
I think this was in 3rd grade (2006-2007, yes I'm showing my age here.) and I really started to get into anime. There were also kids in my class that we were also into anime so it made sense for me to be friends with them, right? If only...
The kids (a group of boys) were not happy to see a girl like the same thing they liked. Initially, they were fine before I started talking about anime that they were watching (InuYasha, Full Metal Alchemist, etc.) and all of a sudden it was not okay for me to like anime. I wasn't allowed to reenact scenes with them or let alone join their group. Eventually, I gave up and continued being a weird lonely anime kid.
Moral of the story: don't gatekeep, it does no one favors.
for me i just see gatekeeping as keeping those that are harming the fandom out. like there are alot of people the comic's fanbase would rather not be there.
I’ve experienced enough first- and second-hand fandom gatekeeping that I do it to myself before anyone else can bother doing it to me. If I call myself a fake fan, I don’t have to be scared of other fans calling me fake to invalidate me. I don’t have to beat myself up when I can’t remember elements of things that I truly love.
Thank you. I didn't know it, but judging by the tears on my face, I needed that; to feel included.
Someone who plays monopoly every week is not only as into board games (well, a board game, but no-one would question their 'credentials' if basically the only game they played was Twilight Imperium or 1830) as I am, but is likely to be able to beat me in any negotiation or trading game we play together, provided we both know how to play that game.
Someone is a fan of something if they consider themselves to be a fan. That, for me, is the sole determinator.
I come here from a musical background having seen so much gatekeeping of bands. People saying, "I'm a bigger fan cause I knew about this band before they got big" or whatever. It's egotistical, pretentious, and at the end of the day, nobody really cares. It doesnt matter when you got into the bad or fandom or how much material you know. If you enjoy it, you're a fan!
Arguing with a Buffy fan was like how many times have you rewatched I've rewatched it X times and I'm thinking yeah and you still don't get the point.
"If these people are fans in a way that I'm not, then that must mean that my fan appreciation isn't the only valid one, and I'm not special."
Something like that?
I think the worst aspect of gatekeeping is just how damn easy it is to fall into that mindset even when you don't mean to. I'm willing to bet everyone who has ever been involved in a fandom has had a moment of at least *thinking* someone else is less of a fan based on how much they've seen/read/the length of time they've been calling themselves a fan, even if you never say it out loud. For example, I know that I am unfortunately prone to leaping to judgements about people in the musical theatre fandom who say they've only listened to the most popular "post-Hamilton" shows - it's something I try to twist into active invitations to older or less well-known shows, but I still can't help making those initial judgements. As was said in the video, I think it's just a natural result of not wanting things either in the fandom or the thing the fandom is about to change, which then evolves into attempting to police who can and can't be a part of it. And I think it's telling that the worst gatekeeping seems to take place within fandoms where real life bullying was previously a high risk if you even revealed you were a fan but which have fairly rapidly and recently moved into the mainstream. If you were bullied for liking something, it can be genuinely galling to see people now falling over themselves to be next in line to say they like it too and appearing to face no (or very little) societal repercussions - there's a feeling of "I was put through hell for this fandom; I 'proved' myself, it's not fair that they shouldn't have to do the same". There's a need to assure themselves that the bullying they previously went through wasn't just for nothing, which manifests into this idea of a "real fan".
Fandom gatekeeping is an insidious practice but I honestly don't think it's ever going to go away. What we *can* do is recognise when we're in danger of engaging with it and try to turn it into something more positive, whether it's recommending the things that you think would make someone a "real fan", or focusing on just potentially making a new friend from the fact you're interacting with someone who at least has the same basic interest as you, or just acknowledging that fandom does always need new blood just to keep it going.
I’m fairly certain that as a teenager I never considered myself a “fan” of anything because I had internalized hearing all those gatekeeping comments and thought, “ oh I’ve only seen x amount of episodes. So I just like the show, I’m not a “fan” “
Excellent, thought-provoking video. I can't think of anything in it that I didn't agree with. But gatekeeping is just another form of prejudice, a way to create an exclusive social environment for a group of like-minded people. Impressive eyelashes BTW.
Them:. Kids nowadays don’t listen to Metallica Nirvana or watch Anime.
Also them.: I don’t want young people listening to Metallica Nirvana or watching Anime.
The biggest problem here is the corporations and media outlets that will brand any backlash to a diverse cast as sexist racist homophobic etc. This can also give the impression that the vocal minority and the bad apples in the fandom (which every fandom has) represents the entire fandom when this is simply not true. The media needs to realize that they are contributing to cancel culture. I’ve never wanted to keep anyone out for any reason but I feel like that doesn’t matter as I’m kinda ashamed to call myself a Star Wars fan as I don’t have a Twitter page at all yet I still have to deal with even the most fair minded CZcamsrs I follow call Star Wars fans toxic. The problem is that any differing opinions from either side can get you branded a sexist or not a real fan depending on which side you are on. Because of that discussion can’t happen and the problem perpetuates.
ULGROTHA yep Ghostbusters is one of the first examples of this happening. The problem isn’t the inclusion of diversity, it’s the aggressive name calling, branding the entire fanbase by the media, and the cancel culture the company and media only exacerbate.
I'm guilty of gatekeeping with Rick and Morty, but mainly because the development of a more mainstream audience actively changed the show, it seemed to me. Not really my show anymore, but change and growth happens to every franchise, inevitably. I just think it's a little diluted these days.
Gatekeeping in my eyes isn't an inherently negative idea. It all depends on how it is done. For example, if you get into racing games and don't like realism, maybe you should look for arcade racing games instead of demanding for the simulation racing games to become more like arcade racers. In this case the gatekeeping would be done to help the person find what they like while also allowing the others still enjoy the thing that applies to their specific tastes. Not everything is for everyone, and that is fine. Certain topics are for more general audiences while others do very specific things. You don't have to enjoy everything, but we should also allow specific tastes to exist as well. I personally will never enjoy football, so I won't go and start making demands for football to become more alluring to fans of board games. They're different tastes and it's fine for different tastes to exist.
I think another, very similar phenomenon occurs in online computer games too; I noticed it especially in World of Warcraft, and it was one of the main reasons I eventually quit the game. A certain 'elite class' of players emerged; they were typically those who'd played it from the beginning, had all their characters at max level, had the 'perfect' build for each of their character classes and had ALL the top-tier armour and weapon for all of their characters, after years of dungeon raiding. And oh my god, were they toxic! They filled the Chat up with moaning about how the game's been 'massively dumbed down' since THEY started playing it, so now 'any noob with zero gaming skills can level up really quickly.' If you asked to join a group or dungeon, the first thing they'd do is grill you about your 'build' and inspect your armour and weapons; if you didn't have their Holy-Grail-deemed 'perfect' build, and your armour was less than elite level, they'd refuse to let you join the group or raid and openly mock you for it in the Chat. I wouldn't be at all surprised if they're the same people who become fandom gatekeepers.
Oh, and is it okay if my first thought on seeing you was "OOOOH ALL THE COLOURS! I LOVE THE COLOURS!" ?
Woah you look so beautiful! I’m a fan of your makeup look here! Also yesss, fandom gatekeeping needs to be talked about 🙌
Also, the Star Wars bits really resonated tbh. I didn’t get into the fandom until TFA happened. Sure I saw the OT and PT and thought they were fine (didn’t get what warranted the sheer hatred the PT gets and still don’t but whatever igss), but they didn’t pull me into the world the way Rey, Finn, and Kylo did. TLJ brought me in further bc it slapped against all the things I love in Star Wars and fleshed them out, AND gave me the belief that I could finally have a canon Enemies to Lovers ship for once. And then the backlash happened. And TROS gave the gatekeeping reactionaries exactly what they wanted. And I got the message that what I wanted never mattered. The only ones who mattered were the ones who wanted Star Wars to remain stagnant as they hero worshipped the Jedi and spat on the idea of living redemption and making the universe about more than just cis straight white people. It sucks. And LFL hasn’t bothered to try to make me and my friends feel welcome in SW since.
“If you are close to my age...” well, I’m old enough to have fought in the Joxer Wars. 😂
Great video and a lot to digest here. I remember liking science fiction and Doctor Who when I was growing up, and being regularly teased for it and then all of a sudden -BAM- it was cool to like it.I can also think back to times where I was gatekeeping without realising (and have just discovered the term today, so thank you!) I do think that a lot of that came from this old fear of being rejected. Nowadays I just enjoy what I enjoy and try to revel in that with other fans- new and long serving! I think a lot of the problems we have with gatekeeping has to do with elitism- particularly when you haven't become a fan where you 'should have'. The lack of willingness by individuals to have a discussion without getting riled up also doesnt helpmuch either! Hopefully people will realise that it's not about excluding but including that makes a fandom.
If someone thinks you're less of a fan for whatever reason, it says more about _them_ than it does about _you._
This is why I just avoid engaging with other fans. Much saner that way.
I hate Gatekeeping. I'm a fan of a lot of different content. Star Wars in particular. Have been since I was a kid. Grew up in the 80s. But it doesn't make my Fandom of Star Wars any more valid than someone who started with the prequels.
Did you become a fan of Star Wars because of Baby Yoda? Do you love him? Welcome to the Fandom :)
I don't understand how that is so hard.
I remember this one time in college where I saw a college mate wearing a Junji Ito manga shirt and I fangirled over the shirt because I love Junji Ito. I told the college mate how much I love Junji Ito and he went in my face "No you're not, you don't know the manga he's made" and my reaction was "The reason why I know Junji Ito's name is because I HAVE read his manga, you asshole". Just because I don't walk around wearing an anime or manga shirt all the time, doesn't mean I'm not an anime or manga fan. It's insane.