John Dehlin Explains Joseph Smith and His Own Story - w/ the Cross Examiner | Ep. 1907
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- čas přidán 27. 06. 2024
- John Dehlin is in the hot seat again, this time with Graham Martin’s podcast, The Cross Examiner. Graham takes on the case of Rationality vs Religion using his experience as a lawyer to examine claims, making his listeners the “jury.”
/ @thecrossexaminer6665
Chapters
00:00:00 Background of John Dehlin
00:06:16 In 2015 he was excommunicated from the church
00:07:50 Who is Graham Martin?
00:09:00 John’s education
00:12:25 Graham’s background
00:16:35 History of the Church
00:37:50 How Joseph Smith translated the Book of Mormon
00:44:50 Polygamy 00:47:00 The legal side of destroying the Nauvoo Expositor
01:04:00 Understanding the truth claims - Outrageous claims
01:14:30 What started John questioning the Church?
01:17:45 John’s Mission experience
01:37:50 Starting his podcast
01:44:?? John advocated for LGBTQ
01:53:00 Wanting to change the church from within?
01:58:15 Why never-Mormons listen to the podcast
___________________
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Thank you, so much for your time, Dr. Dehlin. It was a real joy to work with you!
Come on our show!😊😊😊
I was taught the truth regarding Joseph Smith when I visited Navoo, Illinois.
@@user-kz8mq8co8i what was the truth and who taught it?
@@Latter-dailyDigest
Listen to John and he will cover everything I learned in 1975 and more that has been revealed. He reports it very well. Have a great day.
Dang you should have had him tell you the story of when he dated a famous actress.
I’ve been hooked on Mormon Stories for a few years, and this is the first time I’ve heard John’s story in any detail. Thanks for doing this interview!
Me too. This was a fantastic interview!!!
"When I was kicked out of the Mormon Church, I joined the Human Church. " John 😱💖
I personally really appreciate how safe and respectful this podcast is. When I started questioning the church a few months ago and wanted to find information that the church wasn’t really talking about, I felt like this podcast and their guests were very respectful of their approach to things that I was questioning. That really helped me to listen instead of retreating back to the church and helped me to deconstruct it without being as angry as I otherwise might’ve been about everything that I had been through with the church up to that point.
My ancestors joined in England and came to the U.S. and were the original handcart pushing Mormon pioneers, so it was very difficult for me to break away from the church. Took about 20 years to de-construct. I believe in some sort of higher power, but cannot attend ANY church. I agree with John, they all have problems. I would just be trading one problem for another.
That sounds very difficult. Especially considering the narrative that your ancestors came to the US from England. That's a great deal of obligation.
Completely understand…my family also came from the original pioneering on the organ trail. Heavy rooted in the religion.
Love this episode. I'm a never Mormon but I love listening to John and his guests.
Never a Mormon, not religious just. stumbled upon the Joseph Smith story a couple of years ago. Bryce blankenagel and David Fitzgerald did a series of 20-something episodes about Smith, his cronies and their escapades in chronological order. I happened to catch the series as they were doing it. My first episode was about episode 5 and after the hour I couldn't wait for episode 6. It was so outlandish and so unbelievable that I got hooked. There is no way any writer , anywhere, could create the characters and the shenanigans that describes early Mormon history. If it was illegal, they did it. Each week I couldn't wait for a new episode. The way Smith continually wiggled his way in and out of trouble actually becomes humorous. His hubris and audacity had no bounds. Once they got to nauvoo, john c Bennett crafted the charter for the town and slipped in a clause that made Smith virtually untouchable. These guys made the mafia look like boy scouts. As they kept moving West, the story of Smith and his pals is the gift that never stops giving. Absolutely captivating and fascinating. People need to know that at the time of his assassination he was running for president. Trump being convicted of financial fraud and paying off a pornstar was just another day in the life of Smith. With the current state of affairs, I'm curious why the news media hasn't picked up on the Joseph Smith story. Are they all that ignorant? Or are they afraid of a Mormon backlash? With the council of 50, Smith had plans of becoming president and turning the United States into a Mormon theocracy. By the time of Smith's death, he was dressing in full military regalia looking like Napoleon and had a huge well armed militia at his disposal. I believe to this day, Smith is the only presidential candidate ever to be assassinated.
Actually, from what I understand, they still believe there’s going to be an LDS president and he will turn the USA into an LDS theocracy.
Finally Mormon stories and AXP mentioned together
I’m from Iceland 🇮🇸 and not religious but find the LDS church fascinating im really curious about this because of Chad and Lorie trial and Ruby Frank and Jody case and also their are some LDS members here in Iceland 🇮🇸 from Utah that are going house to house to get people to be in their Church of LDS 😂just really young boys maybe 20 years old but they talk like they have a mountain of knowledge about life i find that interesting and funny at the same time 😂
The Mormons have a huge sales force of youngsters pressured & groomed into giving 2 years of thier lives selling the beliefs door to door, I have such pity for that level of indoctrination
Don't! Just don't!
Youre right!Be kind to them cuz they're likely 18 yrs old and don't know any better 😵💫😟
Of course im nice to them i myself have 3 sons 🩵and yes they are around 18-20 years old probably on their mission they dress real nice and look very innocent and happy 😃ignorance is a bliss i guess 🙈but its actually really strange to hear so young men speak like they have so much knowledge about life and really believe themselves that’s so fascinating to me 😂
I am always kind to those I call religious door knockers...I pray for them as I send them on their way....if you can't be kind don't answer the door...I know you suspect who they are❤
I’m a never-Mormon. I watch because 1) ex husband’s family is Mormon but not me. 2) Lori Vallow/Chad Daybell/Jodi and Ruby. 3) it’s crazy how cults work, the human condition is fascinating. Many Mormons I know have shiny, sparkly eyes and big smiles, which is attractive. Too bad one has to believe in Joseph Smith’s wild ass teachings to belong.
'Shiny sparkly eyes and big smiles' is often an image that is expressed as the mask for what we wanted so badly to be or become, the 'perfect Mormon.' Because the perfect Mormon is the only thing that will get you into the 'perfect Mormon heaven,' where your family won't be scattered away from you for eternity. It is often a facade, and I run into it now as an ex Mormon, and I find their mask covering some conflicted realities and personalities hiding behind that image they try so hard to present to the world. Sometimes there are very harmful people behind that mask.
Shiny happy people by REM. Inspired by a Chinese propaganda poster after the bloody massacre at Tienanmen square in 1989.
Whenever I hear that song I I think of Mormons. I grew up in the church. Members putting on the facade of shiny happy and wholesome perfection.
I could see the cracks but never spoke of the hypocrisy while growing up. It wasn’t safe.
I do not understand that you have embraced that Joseph Smith as fiction. Why not become a Lutheran, Baptist, Methodist, or some other protestant belief?
You have touched on what Neurologists call “The God Factor” and Joseph Smith went through it.
That reminded me of the Amazon documentary on the iBLP. The shiny happy people cult. It's the one the Duggars are part of
Just checked the book of genesis in the old testament and the curse of Ham mentions that the descendants his son Canaan will be enslaved. It doesn't curse him with dark skin. It is the mormon church that interprets it as dark skin, thereby justifying the enslavement of people of African descent. I know I'm being pedantic but I feel it's important to gets the facts straight.
Thank you for doing this episode. And thanks for the work you both do.
Wow, that’s good to know!!! I was upset to think the Bible condemned skin color
@LT11721 the bible still condones genocide and all sorts of horrible things so let's not get too excited about it.
@@Hallahanify here's what I was taught as a Catholic. The Old Temperament has words such as defeat, slain in thousands and even some specifically that 'God slain the Canaanites', for example. Later on, even in the same Book Canaanites are alive. The Old Testament requires a lot of historical context and understanding that words need to be interpreted as they would when first written. Even now we say 'team A killed team B' after a sporting match. Team B would be alive.
@@RobinaDunstan that's some hardcore cafeteria catholicism. Many of the catholics I was raised around had much more literal interpretation of the bible. My uncle who is a devout catholic says the old testament justifies the genocide of the Palestinians.
I think he said this is what they were taught prior to learning the truth
Love this version of John, he should be interviewed more often, let him be more ranty, love the expressiveness with the hands
Agree!
I like how Graham Martin distinguished between the truth claims of the Church and the community of the Church. And I like how he said the price we pay for the community is having to believe in the outlandish truth claims. That is so true. I know some people are happy to continue participating while quietly being non-believers, but that doesn’t work for many people.
That’s exactly why I couldn’t continue on with the church! I couldn’t/wouldn’t ever sacrifice my integrity and not being my honest and true self with others. And I most definitely wouldn’t just to have a built in community.
When I left as an adult my dad said- you should stay in the church for the community.
I said I couldn’t participate in something I didn’t believe in and keep my sanity.
I’ve been listening for about a year and I’ve always loved how John talks to guests with compassion and gentleness. It gives me “father I never had” vibes 😂 I clicked SO fast to hear all about his mormon story and I’ve thoroughly enjoyed this episode.
So glad you mentioned the Mormon belt! I’ve called it the Morridor living adjacent & observing the cult
So close to Mordor
@@rustydog2112 This got me laughing.
I-15
One does not simply walk into morridor.
As a Never Mormon, I was fascinated because I struggled with my own Christian belief system and the similarities are so closely related. Cult to consciousness brought me to your channel and I am grateful. ❤
Yep-same and same!
Wow!!! John never ceases to amaze me. Thank you John, for using your powers for good! What a fascinating conversation in the human experience. Don't we all want to find truth and align ourselves with it, as we find it? Historically, religion has often discouraged that in favor of keeping us isolated in a belief system that dissuades human curiosity and exploration of what reality is. And that's just sad, as a human with a finite number of years to explore life. Thank you to John and Graham for an excellent discussion on the topic!
Yes!! Epic episode!
Thank you, thank you, for such an intelligent conversation! I’ve forwarded this on to many.
I have grown so much learning from you and your cohorts John! I am an exmormon, and appreciate the good work you put into the world. Informed consent is my goal to with the people iny life, i am not out of my angry phase yet lol. I hope to approach a similar space to promote communication with others, to learn and do what i can to help in this crazy tragic world. Take care, and keep up the great work!
Sometimes I wish I had an ExMormon to talk with. Besides John here, I have no one. My husband a non member, atheist thinks my answer would be just to not mention the Mormons again. That doesn't work. I know no one that left the Church.
Nevermo long-time listener here. I wanted to add to the discussion of why Mormon Stories is so compelling for a nevermo. The core narrative of Mormonism is incredibly far-fetched for anyone not raised in the faith, but it feels and seems close enough to mainline Christianity to be familiar. I think for a lot of listeners, especially Christians and questioning Christians, this allows Mormonism to provide a thought experiment about religion more broadly, and invites all of us to wonder why we believe what we do. Is it family, tradition, logic, culture? When we choose to devote our lives, resources, and money to a belief system, what is our standard of proof? A lot of people in mainline Christian denominations never ask these questions because our belief systems are so normal in America, but Mormonism raises the question, what if ALL of it is strange and illogical? If it is, do we still choose to participate, and why? Is it harmless to participate? It's a completely different lens through which to view faith and obedience, and for me has allowed me to consider what my own standards are for participation in organized religion.
Wow!!! So well said. Thank you. ❤
"why were native Americans speaking in old English"
John. Why has that never occurred to me??
I'm a never-mormon. I'm honestly amazingly surprised by how many interesting stories I've come across just listening to your podcast. I like listening to people's religious deconstruction stories. The way so many Mormons seem to be very well educated in their own theology is also intriguing.
The mo-mo’s silliest and magical thinking is thankfully being exposed more and thanks to Daybell and Vallow types
So many more don’t receive such press
Tragic might be a better word than silly. Many Mormons believe their children are possessed by evil spirits (demons) when they misbehave or struggle with mental illness or depression or anything. Ruby Frankes children would have been murdered just like the Vallow kids if the boy hadn't escaped.
I feel this so deeply. I also have my own Mormon story. Thank you both!
….when I was 16 years old, I was told not to come back to meetings in my lutheran church….because I ask questions!
thank you for your hard work and search for Truth in the Morman belief! I was a member for 3 years from Montana. Any religion that won't learn from its history will end up with great people like you to help others to recover from their mental conditions!
I'm not Mormon, I'm not religious but grew up Lutheran and went to Sunday School and quite when I was old enough. The spiritual world has no religion and what I found in Sunday School was to control people and had so little to with the spiritual world. I wasn't very old when I realized that. So I identify what is wrong with religions including the Mormon religion. It's fun to see people come to realization about how bad so many religions are.
I agree. Grew up Roman Catholic but my parents were just not very religious. I think they thought it was what they were 'supposed' to do. My husband and I raised our children without religion. They have grown up and are four good, decent people 😊
@@dorothyd7929 I raised my kids to be honest, caring and loving but never took them to church.
I'm a Never Mormon, but my parents dragged me to Utah when I was five years old My dad got a job teaching at Utah State University (in Political Science coincidentally). Also coincidentally USU is where John Dehlin got his psychology Doctorate degree I believe. So I lived in a small town in Cache Valley where I was often the only Mormon in my school class. One more coincidence: my town of North Logan is where John lived in during part of his graduate school days. Actually I think he lived just a couple blocks away from our family house. I was in DC during those days where I worked at CNN's Washington bureau as a senior producer for almost 25 years. Now that I am retired and back in Cache Valley (came back for the skiing, stayed for the compound fracture). Now I really enjoy learning a lot more about the LDS church than I ever learned growing up. And I love a good scam or confidence scheme. And, thanks to CZcams, I've become a bit of a physics nerd and my agnosticism turned into to total non-belief. And I would like to say that my best friend growing up was very Mormon and I spent more time at his house than at my home. His family NEVER tried to convert me or push any theology on m. Except that there was prayer at meals, and they even let me say the Lord's prayer in Russian since back then I was nominally Russian Orthodox.
I’d love to have lunch some day.
It’s amazing what we can learn once we start doing our own research. Thank you for another great eye opening episode. Happy Father’s Day to all dads.
John, I am glad your “balloon popped “ and you found your true purpose.
You have no idea how much you helped me during my faith crisis (2016) and still help me to this day. I was a member for 25+ years in the church in Northern California.
Thank you for your great work❤.
This is EPIC having you on as a guest John 😊❤
WOW, thank you for being Honest and truthful. I'm not LDS. I got friends who are here in Utah. I can not get them to tell me what you said. I study all I could. You being this honest. HELPED ME TREMENDOUSLY. Thank you
John, I am one of your faithful never Mormons. One thing that brings me back again and again is what you talked about at 2:02:00. It is easier to objectively investigate another religion and learn so much about your own.
This podcast was like a therapy session for me wow. Thank you for putting words to the feelings so many of us exmormon and ex religious people have 🙌🏼🙌🏼🙌🏼
Loved this. I love 2+ hours of Just John.
As someone who has recently left the Mormon church, listening to our history in this context is just bonkers 😂 I’m thankful for John and others like him that helped me research the true story and realize I was in a freaking cult!
I love the distinction of identifying as atheist being in some way a validation to theism. I prefer it as an adjective, not a noun. My religious position is atheist. Not me. I'm much more than this one box.
Welcome to the human race, John Dehlin and winning the blue ribbon.
I majored in POLSCI in the early 90s because I was thinking about going to law school, but I talked to some lawyer friends too! In fact, I was in DC winter semester 1990 and lived in Oakwood Apts in Alexandria and worked for Jake Garn.
We were practically in the same cohort!
Looking forward to it, appreciate your content!
This interview = Wow! Thank you both.
Wow. Before there was a concept of a “shelf”, I started questioning things that didn’t seem right about the church in my late teens. I talked to my (Mormon) friends about my concerns snd was pulled in by my bishop, a man I respected greatly. He explained to me that God allows people yo be tempted to the level they can withstand, and that I was smarter than my friends and could withstand more than they could. He encouraged me to talk to him directly about my faith questions, but not yo tempt my friends because they may not be able to handle the questions. He was sincere and meant well, but created two new giant problems via his “solution”.
First, he implied that I could over-rule God, and that my talking to my friends would create a situation God does not allow where people are tempted beyond their ability to resist.
Second, when I clarified that I should “act as if everything is OK around my friends” he affirmed. But that was asking me to lie and deceive.
Those two problems immediately broke the shelf I didn’t know I had.
I seriously appreciate you. I’ve even studied with Maharishi Maheshi Yogi. I’ve studied as many religious regimes and when their God is so poor that he needs so much money to build their own house or a temple or buy a pool or a car; or there is a man that wants to hate any group of people in order to be racist or create any distructive movement. If Gid created humans in his own image, then how can anyone decide to hate if a group isn’t skin color, hold the right job, speak the right language, believe in the different view of children, sex, ugliness of any kind, different opinions, etc. we need to keep studying and learn about others. I’m 79 yo and still doing it.
It's ironic, my family has a law firm. And my one cousin had so much hard time getting a law degree (passing the bar), but he did. My uncle notarized my exit letter though. I was on the debate team, so I've always been able to see both sides of the story. Mr. John you have a great voice, you could have been a DJ or in TV as a news reporter. My mom would understand all of this, she was a computer programmer back then.
John dehlin, I've been listening to you for 2 years because of the vallow Daybell case. I finally learned your own story today!
Love all of Mormon Stories. I am totally unreligious. I do however love hearing the stories. Being in or out. Love your podcasts John
This is a masterful interview from both of you. Having been out of the church for many years, I’ve learned it’s not my place to unsolicitedly de-convert believing friends and family. That said, if someone really wants to know, this might be the first thing I’d share. Well done!
Thank you for this podcast episode! I've been having doubts about the LDS church since being baptized and this helps me realize my doubts are founded. I can't let my family continue to be apart them. It's only been about 2.5 months. At first I was very curious as to why they never talk about to Bible on Sunday and then I came across an NDE where a guy said he saw Joseph Smith in hell and that made me even more curious. Thank you.
I never did get a confirmation of the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon after I read it. And, I was looking forward to it!
Such a blessing the two of you. Personally, I am a child of the universe LOL. I believe in God I believe in many faiths that have so much to offer but I don’t have to be exclusive…..
This is... SUCH....a monumental episode. What a powerhouse interview session. If I were to pick any video to send someone about why I no longer believe, this would be it!!!! Thank you!!!
Wow, thank you!
100% agree with @CHEVYedsf. 😃🫶🙌🏼
This was very educational! I never knew about the roots of the LDS church leader(s). Thank you for this!
Really appreciate this conversation
Really loved this episode!!! Thank you!!
Your video was so informative. I learned so much.
I’m only at 5:20 here
Just want to say I found Mormon stories last year some time probably from the Ruby Frankie case actually..
I’m a never Mormon. But I have been fascinated by the stories I’ve heard on here. The six hour one y’all did where you broke down that book that Lori vallow was reading was SO INTERESTING. I couldn’t stop listening to it.
Thank you John 💛
I have slept to your voice many times lol
Such an interesting interview!
I appreciate the TRUTH. As an Indigenous Native American…I just wish dumb ol’ J.S. would have left Tribal People out of his occult. My FAITH is in the GOSPEL of the GOOD NEWS. Thank you both for the HISTORY of JOSEPH SMITH.
What an amazing episode! I learnt so much. Very thought provoking.
That was great, thanks guys!
Great interview!
Loved hearing your story John, have watched MSP for ages but haven't heard the timeline of your life. I can give my hubby the term Secular Christian as that sounds like his handle, he felt the others are too harsh - fell back on"Scientist" instead. CHEERS both of you.
Just watched the ted talk from way back. Stilly so beautifully relevant and applicable today.
I like when you said, I like to be open and who knows that is after life!
So good to hear more of your own background story John! Even though not Mormon I can really relate to that religious multi-generational thing and also the overloaded shelf!!
Religion is interesting because we were designed by God to seek God. He lets us choose to love Him or not.
John, this is the most amazing podcast you have ever shared, by far! Thank yuou.
Wow, thank you!
I went to read about him Warren Jeff because of Mormon Podcast. He mimicked Joseph Smith. He look very charsmatic like David Koresh. My cousin and her husband were think of going to Waco but her husband told her he's to charismatic, I dont trust him. But she lost friends in that catastrophe. One of her friends, husband and wife owned a bakery here in Oahu,Kailua they died in the raid. Couple of her married friends left before they seiged the compound. One two many children died, it was so sad. David Koresh attended the Diamond Head Church in Honolulu.
Kamaaina Oahu here. I didn't know the connection to Koresh.
Such an interesting conversation!
This is awesome! I have not heard John tell his story before. I am not Mormon, nor have I ever been so this is quite informative! Nauvoo, Illinois is not far from me (about 45 minutes) and Joseph Smith's village before he traveled west to Utah still stands and is quite a tourist spot in the area
JS didn’t get to Utah. He was killed before.
After a protracted dispute with other men who claimed they were the rightful heirs to Joseph’s church. Brigham Young ultimately won that power struggle and lead the majority of members to Utah.
His followers were called Brigamites.
This show is great. As a Roman I of course consider the Mormons to be heretical pagans, but they can repent.
re: Episcopals + clergy project: A key moment in my faith life was hearing an episcopal priest say from the pulpit: "When we say the creed, we say 'we believe', not 'I believe.' It's not what you happen to believe or disbelieve at the moment. It's not even what *I*, your pastor, believe or disbelieve at the moment. We all believe and disbelieve different things at different times in our lives. The creed is about the principles that we choose to believe collectively, to try to cope with the world, and to make it a better place."
If other religions had that attitude, you guys would be out of a job 😊
I missed the beginning. I was out with my friend. I wanted to support your channel. You and Without a Crystal Ball I support.
I remember that Y2K. I got an A in psych 100 at the community college. There was this other LDS girl there, and we were waiting in the hallway. Everybody knew she was LDS. I was so afraid they would find out I was also LDS. So, I never said anything.
These are the Learned men that the scriptures speak of in the last days, who will know more than God Himself and look beyond the mark. 😢
John Dehlin is absolutely the best.
Love you John! You are a treasure.
That was very educational
Just FYI, John, I am the 79 yo F, two MAs in Clinical and industrial Psychology, an Ergonomist, RN, Living Food Chef, Macrobiotic Chef, Chuckwagon Chef, and other stuff.
Dr Milton Erickson was my mentor.
I would share with you how I completed my Master’s Thesis and how I started researching for my PhD . So I am retired, and do not collect money to assist my fellow humans in psychological emotional pain. I have a big appreciation for both you and your wife to care that a cult use fear and pain to have power to collect money in all sorts of groups. Anyway, their methods are horrid. Sorry it is a happening that needs to stop. I’m a never-Morman but have studied many religious and spiritual groups. I find it not only interesting but a part of all of our lives. I pray that the truth needs to continue be exposed in all aspects of our lives. If I could be of help, I offer my time and knowledge. ❤ with love and appreciation. ❤
My family too is in a weird dark place, so tough!
My fourth great aunt was a pioneer as were her sons. One participated in Mountain Meadows,seemingly. My sister converted to Mormonism. I'm interested to reflect on things in my family that are similar to Mormonism. It's all very interesting!
I liked hearing your story John. Baptism and Tithing have been a big problem for me, a convert at 18. One Bishop made no effort to cover up his efforts to baptise as many as he could and sort of made it a Joke just getting to people with his funny friendly personality. And being a convert I see how they just drop you and don't talk or visit anymore like they did before the baptism. Your mission story struck that cord super hard!! I told myself this isn't a bad place to be or a bad thing to do. But I finally had enough when Nelson got in and Covid propaganda from the church started. I have such a better understanding of everything that I learned before and after and it affirmed to me that I was uncomfortable from the get go for good reason. But when a Mormon Boy thinks they love a non mormon girl you do what you gotta do!! I love Mormon discussions. Those are my favorites episodes!!
What was the name of the episode where John tells believing Mormon uncomfortable truths & where can we watch it?
czcams.com/video/gl50qEdRABQ/video.htmlsi=rIwcANITxcezWwLS
What happened to episode 1899?
I see this is 10 days old but I hope you see this. According to Aaron from Growing Up In Scientology, YT is no longer monetizing multistreams. Just letting you know. You have to modify it in some way and post seperately or neither channel gets monetized.😱
For those that don't know: The elephant owning community of america is most popular in Utah.
Wouldn’t it get lonely living on your own planet? Also, if people live on their planet with their kids, how can their kids marry and get their own planets?
What you said about Jesus at the end - yes! And Jesus was not a Christian, he came from the Jewish tradition. No one “faith” or “non faith” can claim the high ground
I so agree fellow Brenda. No one has a corner on Jesus, Buddha, insert ascended master of your choice. These are senient beings, ascended beings that have free will, no one owns them. I am embarrassed I used to think otherwise.
I am a born again Baptist believer and trusted Vhrist in 1973 afterv26 years in the Catholic cult.
I would like to ask you have you checked out what for from the time of Christ for 1830 years have you looked at how they got saved in that time period.
Charles Finney had a great revival in the time that Joseph Smith started his cult.
Finney was followed by D L Moody then Billy Sunday and R A Torrey
1:11:00 Noah never cursed Ham with dark skin. He cursed Caanan to become a servant of Shem and Japheth.
“And Noah began to be an husbandman, and he planted a vineyard: and he drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent. And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without. And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father's nakedness. And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him. And he said, Cursed be Canaan; A servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren. And he said, Blessed be the LORD God of Shem; And Canaan shall be his servant. God shall enlarge Japheth, And he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; And Canaan shall be his servant.”
- Genesis 9:20-27
@ 2 hours 21 minutes "We're way over time." Tell me you're not a regular watcher without telling me you're not a regular watcher."
Love ya John but tell us about the management consultants that told you how much they loved their job😂
🙋🏼♀️ Cult cousin exjw checking in! ❤ We can relate …
I love and support your podcast, even though I am a never-Mormon. I was raised an evangelical Christian, but struggled because I am gay. I even dabbled in Scientology (big mistake.). Your podcast is relatable to anyone struggling with their shelf or confronting deconstruction.
1:26:51 nah , it’s the same
A question I have always had is about family in heaven. If each married man gets their own world, wouldn’t that mean they weren’t in their parents world. It would just be two parents per world in that case? How do they explain that?
What you have touched on in some areas is relevant however your understanding could be better.
I am struggling with the Joseph Smith stuff and the racial stuff that went on. I'm still a member but inactive.
John im wondering if you saw the mormon musical before as a actove mormon... i know when i was active i was told not to and didnt see it till my now husband then bf took me. Omg this is ONE of my favorite episodes. I was thinking of getting the live but was like meh dont feel like Joseph smith junk today and i will say the title is misleading because ya
Regarding Agnostic vs Atheist etc. I would say 'Define God' before I'd want to answer the question. There is no solid definition and God appears to change dramatically even within the bible itself, but if you step outside religions, the word is so flexible that you could conceivably come up with a definition so broad that everyone could believe in. For example, you could define God as.. 'a yet to be understood phenomena that has produced the result of me perceiving myself to exist'. to which I'd say, yes if that's the definition of God I can believe that. I don't think labels are useful except for others to use as leverage against you by calling on collective negative bias against the label.