Jan-Ove Waldner vs Ma Long | Energis Masters
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- Äas pĆidĂĄn 10. 05. 2018
- I am a Offical Table Tennis Video Creator working for the International Table Tennis Federation and the German League Tischtennis Bundesliga.
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This game is passing Throne from one G.O.A.T to other. We will never ever see such a heavy loaded Table again. That table must be proud to be a TT table.
Love how Waldner is 43 and looks like the typical overweight dad down at the club, yet still is fighting with the greatest of that era toe to toe
Samsonov at 43 also took 1 game from a top form ML in 2019 WTTC while 43 yrs old Waldner only took 1 game from a 20 yrs old Ma Long. So, I guess Samsonov is better than Waldner? lol
@@pham1020 i agree that Waldner is not in his best shape when he is 43. To add to it, this is a man who have won everything, there is no need for him to prove himself.
@@northswole Both of you are wrong. Yes, not "toe to toe" but not "dominated" too.
@@FBR2169 he did not win the ITTF Grand Finals
Waldner isn't exactly going "toe to toe" with Long. Did you notice how many points were cut out of this video? No doubt the only ones included were the few good ones.
A retiring Waldner vs an up-and-coming Ma Long. This reminds me of the 2001 Wimbledon match between Sampras and Federer.
Federer is only 10 years younger than Sampras.The equivalent would be mcEnroe vs Federer.
@@dickn.ormous1064I wasn't referring to the age equivalent. I just meant to say this encounter reminded me of sampras vs federer, because:
1. both waldner and sampras were probably the greatest in their generation
2. both ml and federer were probably the best their generation, too
(in fact, all 4 are strong âgoatâ contenders)
3. both matches feature the retiring king vs the future king
p.s. I guess federer never met mcEnroe in a competitive match.
â@@ronaldchan2000 Well,Waldner wasn't retiring,he was retired for good.The closest thing to this match would be mcEnroe taking 5 sets out of Roddick in a one-set exhibition match in 2017.Yet,Roddick was out of the tour as well.
@@dickn.ormous1064You're entitled to your opinion but that comparison sounds weird to me.
Roddick was good but he was never a player of sampras/fededer's caliber.
As for the retirement, in fact, according to wikipedia, Waldner retired from the international level at 46. That's 3 years after this match!
â@@ronaldchan2000 Waldner is 23 years older than Ma Long.He retired in 2006.There simply hasn't been a competitive tennis match between a 43 year old and a 20 year old top player ever.McEnroe taking 5 sets off Roddick was stunning. Roddick is no slouch.He is a slam champion and almost beat Federer at Wimbledon.
As I sat in the audience watching Waldner take on Ma Long, I couldn't help but be in awe of the talent and skill on display. The crowd was electric, cheering and gasping with every point. I tried to keep up with the fast-paced action, but my eyes could barely keep track of the ball as it zipped back and forth across the table. At one point, Waldner pulled off an incredible move that left Ma Long stunned, and the entire audience erupted in cheers. I couldn't believe I was witnessing history in the making, and I felt lucky to be a part of it all. As I left the arena that day, I couldn't help but think that Jan-Ove Waldner truly is the Mozart of table tennis, and I was honored to have seen him play in person.
Lucky you!
So lucky!!
I'm happy these two guys had the possibility to share table in a match together. A piece of Table Tennis history for sure!
Little did we know we just had the two biggest legends on one tabke
I mean we knew one legend, we didn't know about ma long.
The two legends... how I wish they would have this match in their primes
Ma long would destroy
waldner would outmaneuver Ma Long with ease.
@@uchihamadara7248 that's very shortsided, Ma long lost to Wang Hao like three times at the worlds..Waldner was better easily and beat the chinese regularly, although sometimes they beat him..it'd be very close, Ma long doesn't always play well, but he's amazing obviously..
@@souldesire5932 how to compare Wang Hao to ZJK and ZJK to Malong? dont know shit talk like shit
@@souldesire5932
Nothing against Waldner as a TT player, he was very good and tenacious. Waldner was about one of the very few players that challenged the Chinese TT Team. However, did you check the records before you wrote your comment? I think it is the other way around that Waldner occasionally won against a top Chinese Team player. Waldner couldn't beat Liu Guoliang for many years. Waldner has a poor w/l record against Jiang Jia Liang, Ma Lin, Wang Hao, and Wang Liqin. Don't count Ma Long's generation because Waldner was too old and out of shape.
. . ..the king of the present and the past collide...
Historical moment....
Still i m a huge waldner fan for a very long tym....
1:06 Timo Boll
@kakka hattu cristian suss
@@Andy-is2kb sĂŒĂ is right handed. probably patrick baum.
@@xyzzzzz01 ehh yeah.. I see
@@Andy-is2kb Same shirt as Waldner, same contest... my bet is this was Appelgren
I like both, I think they are the best two players I have ever seen in two different eras.
Rasheed Al-Nimr Al-Siberi Al-Adab Siz xu xin better than ma long (my opinion)
@@wommy1732 lol no...
â@@wommy1732who are these playersđđđ
Wow!! What a rare video. Thatâs amazing
That Ma Long guy has potential, perhaps he will even become #1 one day
He has been no1 for 14 months. Currently he is no3.
Na, he will never make it
how great would it be, if we could see into the futuređđ
Nah. He will never make it!
youtube noobs got baited. gj
Loool i am the referee at 0:37 đđ
Thx for the upload :)
I would love to watch a FULL MATCH đ
From one GOAT to another.
Waldner is still my favorite
Could you perhaps create clips from the recent WTTC match between Brazil and Germany? The few available clips (summaries) are a bit too lengthy...
Unfair comparisons throughout the comments section, pretty much like the Ali, Tyson stuff. But you know where J.O. triumphs? It's where my 10 year old daughter, brought up on a diet of Ma Long, FZD, Harimoto videos exclaims " I want to play like Waldner "! Brutal power or razor sharp techniques win World titles but the artistic appeal and graceful execution of a game win hearts. You will stay the King of our hearts, Jan Ove!
Yeah waldner play gracefully, it is old style. FH atttack BH defend
that warms a swedish heart BIG TIME
@@pipotube81 Waldner could do it all and when needed, he could also surprise with fine backhand attacks.
Ask 20 kids and see who wants to play like ma long?
Sadly this "artistic appeal and graceful execution" is no longer feasible in the modern game.
When has this video been made? Which competition are we seeing here?
it takes me back
Is the full match available??
Post the whole thing!
Do you have the full match recordings!?
This match 10 yrs ago was a foreshadowing for the ending of WTTC 2019 as ML with the 3 consecutive WC title is now officially the GOAT. Long live the Old King. Here comes the Dictator!
Amazing, please more Videos from Waldner against Top-Players :)!!!
Videos full match ???
1:25 ăăăăăŠćŁ°ćșăăŠçŹăŁăĄăăŁăă
I had no idea their careers overlapped like this. Waldner near the end of his career and Long starting his. Two of the greatest of all time. Awesome.
Ma Long is the greatest. There can only be one
2 Olympic golds
1:51 in waldners golden period these kind of blasts did not used to happen.
451 comments says it all...there are only 2 racketlegends of all times that can compete on toplevel after 40 and thats Fed and Lao Wa period. At 39 Waldner smashed half the Chinese team in 1 day beating Ma Lin in singles and 2 other Chinese in doubles with Swedens superstar no 2 Jörgen Persson in Athen olympics 2004. He demolished Timo Boll but could touch the south korean in the semis just like he isnt close in this fight either..BUT at 43 and fully retierd he could still shake up the the player who would become the greatest of all time...thats amazing..because of his special senses just like an ageing Muhammad Ali. Fed though...is just another level. Tennis is more fysical then table tennis and he can still blow 20 years old top players off the court. And thats 2021. BUT noooone had the touch and the BOSS attitude like Jan - Ove Waldner. The most beautiful part of his style is that he never boosted/shouted or bragged about it like Kyrigous, Tyson, Jordan etc. When he made his most famous points it was always straight face...no toungs out, big fist pumps etc in order not to humiliate the opponent...very elegant Swedish steel with engineeringsskills like Björn Borg, Mats Wilander, Stefan Edberg among others. In that sense i also lift my hat for Timo Boll who in his fortys became european champion..i think he was inspierd alot of Waldner.
There was no debate at the first place. ..ma long is the GOAT even without any gold at Olympics....look at how the sport have evolved and competitive..... harimoto is enough for waldner let alone ma long ......the fact that ma long still reigns supreme in this generation is beyond comprehension......so there's no debate at all ......waldner won't be able to play so many tournaments and fast paced games in today's time.
Yours is just a fanboi comment đ€Ą
@@rohitsinghyxrs u are probably good at other things
@@g.o.a.t262white people coping since ma long second gold đ
impressive
3 legends there .. ma , wallie and timo
Waldner and Wang Liqin forever the best. Maybe will be anyone in the future. Maybe ML , maybe FZD , maybe Harimoto?
So far, Ma Long is the best player of the new 40mm ball era, period.
@@benthekeeshond545 imo, best player of all time. Hard to compare because ittf changed the balls
Oh , these sort of players have potential to represent their respective countries in international competitions .
2 GOATS
ĐŃĐ°ĐČĐžŃŃŃ ŃŃĐșĐ°Ń ŃĐŸŃĐŒĐ° ОгŃĐŸĐșĐŸĐČ
1:06 there is boll đ©đȘ
The goat vs the goat
1:07 anyways ne seen Timo Boll playing in the background ??
Did Waldner ever win against MaLong?
GOAT VS GOAT
Could you please put the year of the matches in title or description?
Rolf Hacker This is from 2009.
Thanks!
After prime vs before prime.
Excuses after excuses
@@ricksonrickson8796 how is that an excuse?
@@ricksonrickson8796 explain it
Jan ove was old In This video and ma long was still too young,. Is that not true? So tell me, how is my comment a form of excuse?
Excuses again
Waldner is da goat !
Not even close
đđđđđđđđđđđ dream and cherish your vhs tapes.
Of course
Goat vs goat
Such contrast styles. Ma is like Boll, athleticism. Waldner is all technique
Waldner, INCOMPARABLE!!!!!
No
The goat is ma longđ
MA long is the GOD .... whereas waldner is just a king......there can be many kings and queens but only 1 GOD and that's Ma Long.
Of course this is pure speculation, but in a match between prime Waldner (early to mid 90s form) against prime Long, my money would be on Waldner. There's a shot he plays at 1.30 in this video that he could seemingly do at will, and I honestly don't think Long has ever played anyone that good. I never forget watching Waldner beat Kong Linghui in the final of the WTTC in Manchester in 1997....he absolutely annihilated him without breaking a sweat. Kong was aced by about 5 serves in one game, and kept looking at his coach for reassurance, but his coach just looked back at him with an expression that said "You may be the current World No. 1, but there's absolutely nothing you can do about this son." Waldner was in a different class altogether. I often read Long fans saying that their man is more technically proficient (debatable), and so would therefore win, but there's a lot more to the game than just that. Waldner was wily as hell, mentally very strong, brilliant on both wings in attack and defence, and could do things with the ball that no one else could, then or since, and that includes Long.
who won?
Este
please upload complete Mach
Playing senpai Waldner made Ma Long stronger.
GREATEST OF ALL TIME vs jon ove waldner
Ma Long the GOAT
Tu vieja
Timo V Michael Maze in the background?
Itâs Werner Schlager not Maze..
@@SvenMeusser schlager is not lefthanded, think its Par Gerell
@@Hallelujjaa91 it's Christian SuĂ
@@thenewguy7527 no way, suss is righthanded, its Gerell
I just did my research, this was Energis Masters 2009, Boll was playing Appelgren - left handed player.
young lion ,old lion!
Who won in this match?
Este
The evergreen tree
Waldner had only played for around 40 years here. đ
Ma Long gave it up still being a junior.
What racket Waldner using guys?
Donic Waldner Carbon Senso
@@huangyingling3394 its been 2 years. Thanks for reply đ
So who won?
Ma long
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1:42 èçŠć銏éŸćæçæ°èĄć·źè·ïŒéŁæäžæżéœćäžćèœé»èçŠçé«ćąć·Čç¶ç©©ćźäșïŒçŹŹćæżæłèźç·äœæŻćäœć€Șæ饯äžçć°±çćșäŸ(ćæèȘć·±é«ćąćŽ©æœ°)ïŒćæèçŠæ©ć·Čæłć°ćæć°çïŒä»„ć ¶äșșäčééæČ»ć ¶äșșäčèș«ă
You can only settle the GOAT debate with an AI simulation of 1000 head to head matchups in their respective prime to see what the outcomes are. Even then
ă”ăšăŁăŠćăăȘăăŻă«ăăăŒăăă
A match between the only 2 legend in table tennis (waldner the top perfect player I have ever seen, and the 2nd perfect player ma long).now I know from where did ma long get his perfect table tennis.
kareem mohamed,
You know what? The top perfect player has losing records against tons of other players. Do you count winning as a criterion to being top and perfect?
Ma long is better dude... Just stfu.. Chinese player all are great
@@benthekeeshond545Trophies are only one measure of greatness. The beauty of how Waldner played table tennis is unmatched by any other player in the history, including modern day. Sure he wasnât the most efficient player and didnât win the most trophies but he did still win a bunch of them and had a natural talent for the game greater than probably anyone else ever had. Youâve got to appreciate the aesthetically pleasing part of the game as well, unless you want all players to be robots doing the same smashes over and over again. It is made even more impressive when you realize that he comes from little Sweden and not the Ping Pong capital that is China. He is the underdog that defied all odds and managed to compete with the monopoly that is the Chinese ping-pong industry, and doing so with grace and style, in his prime years even making it look ridiculously easy. That is why he is so loved by so many people. Greatest ever ping pong player in terms of achievements and records? No. Greatest ping pong player in terms of what he means to the sport? For sure.
I'm here because Dan said Ma Long is the goat.
Heâs not wrong
Ma Long is the goat
incredible how much better ma is nowadays
I like Waldner, I also like Wang Hao who usually the only player who won against Ma Long regularly, that says a lot for the so called 'goat' Ma Long. I also switched to the RVP grip and got the backhand of my dreams (for my level) Thank you Wang Hao..Robert at 66.
H2H not a lot. On the highest of stage, WHao can't come through, Im a big fan and it is sad that he wasn't able to.
Yes Albert he didn't win any of the big three between the ages of 34 to 40 years of age but still managed to defeat the highest ranked players in major tournaments on occasions. Ma Long seems disinterested and only around 30 years of age, I like you, am a huge Ma Long fan, i remember bouncing around the kitchen when Ma Long won his first world title, but please don't disrespect a mans achievements who gave it his all for such a long time
Ma Long actually is Olympic Champion, WTTC Champion, Grand Finals Champion and World Cup Runner Up and seems disinterested!?
@@lucaslima4218 may long is a grand slam winner?
@@sumandas9487 the one and only 2 times grand slam winner...
Must be 2008 ?
1:06 Timo Boll vs Waldner
ă€ăăŒăȘăŒăŸăă
Er war damals nicht "unumstritten" der beste spieler, es gab da so einige chinesen die schon damals auch in der Diskussion waren
FREE HONG KONGđ€
Waldner is a class in Table Tennis with effortless shots and always behind the ball with balanced stance like Rojer Federer in Long Tennis, while Ma Long has power game with robotic moves and stamina same like Nadal. Waldner would have beat him easily if they were of same era. Waldner is best. Thank you for the Video
I wouldn't say ma longs game is robotic and relies on stamina. His play is quite calculated and his balls are well place. Waldner is known for his defensive block play. While the two are indeed in different era i wouldn't say that waldner was in an era or class of effortless ball play. It was just his style. Also tennis really can't be compared to tt the two are different in many ways. Also waldners stance was quite stiff not balanced but fitted his play style, ma longs more nimble agile stance is probably the more stable one. Not discounting the greatness of waldner tho, just pointing out how the waldner style isn't the holy grail federer style you speak of.
Ma number 1 here & Jan 2...www.google.com/amp/s/sport.one/the-top-10-greatest-male-table-tennis-players/amp/
@@marchwu2109 Waldner is known for his serve(he invented the pendulum grip)and his forehand loop.
His blocks were mostly used to set up his forehand loop(similarly Federer uses his slice backhand to set up his forehand).The highlight videos give a false impression of his game.He played a loopers game but with great variety.The comparison to Federer is a valid one since both of them had the greatest serve and forehand attack combination with great improvisational ability.
@@dickn.ormous1064 how dumb are you TT and LT are completely diff sports, the diff is night and day.
Ml>Waldner any ball any time
Waldner isnât even close to being the GOAT lmao yâall delusional
We want the complete Mach!
P.S. 1997 version of Waldner would eat Ma Long alive
Hahaha, keep dreaming
LegIsLate who says ma long is better does not really understand table tennis mechanics
Fury Riccardo thatâs why you suck as a professional player. Whatâs your ranking on ittf?
Wow. You can't even compare them. Waldner played with different balls. Rackets, rules. Ma long is a different player.
Fury Riccardo played 7 yrs professionally but just enter competition. Wtf?
Lasker vs Capablanca 1914.
and know that Pele(jan-ove) and Messi(Ma long) played table tennis
Samuel,
Messi is no Ma Long or Pele. The achievements of Pele at the World Cup soccer/football is unmatched. Ma Long is the best player in the 40mm ball era. Messi, pretty good, but hasn't proved himself yet by getting to the pinnacle of soccer competitions. He is much better than Ronaldo of Portugal.
@@benthekeeshond545 world cup is won by overpowered team not players unless you talk about maradona in argentina world cup or maradona in mid table team like napoli.
1:06 Timo
Bruce Lee vs Ip Man!
Ma long the best of his time, Waldner the best of 5 generations time, answer solved Waldner the goat,18 years straight in the top 10 doesn't lie.
Ma long is the absolute GOAT Waldner isnât even close to being the best of all time not even top 10 (in achievements yes heâs up there but skills HAHAHAHH)
@@yeagerist977 You are clueless dude. China itself regards him as top 1-3 player OF ALL TIME. The country you are such a fan of themselves says he's one of the best ever. They have unique nicknames for him in China because they think he used to be so good in his prime.
Talking trash from the sidelines..so pathetic. You must seriously be fairly new to Table Tennis there's no way you'd shit on a legend this hard otherwise because it shows how naive you are.
tell me how many tournaments did Waldner win in such a long career? From 1998 to his retirement in 2016, Waldner did not win any international tournament. He did not win any 11 point tournament.
@@alberthuang4868 semi finals in olympics at 39 years old outclassing ma lin and timo boll
@@alberthuang4868, agree. Ma long would beat Waldner.
When the goat beat the goat to become THE GOAT đ
MA LONG YOU ARE THE BEST OF ALL TIME
Ha ha look at the goat waldner just standing there bored out of his brain not moving his feet at all except when he went to pick up the ball, clearly an insignificant match for him i think he was actually yawning at one stage. amazing how most people still use this match as a comparison how long defeated waldner therefore saying long must be better. I love the comments of Swarnendu Sen, why do you get it but half the table tennis community can't?
Please spread the word, us Waldner fans couldn't give a stuff about statistics its about exactly what Swarnendu said, can we please see a current Tennis match between Rod Laver and Roger Federer, you idiots!
Can you give a link to someone using this match as a comparison between them?
I am quite sure if both of them are in their prime form waldner will be the clear winner and also waldner is not everything about the power game he has that grace in his game which no one ever had đ
Ma long the GOAT!!!
Jan o Waldner 34 or 24?
42
43 0:24
Who won
Ma Long won.
The GOAT won
Este
WALDNER.
Waldner is the GOAT of Table Tennis
Ma long is upgrade goat more title
If Waldner is the GOAT of TT (which he isnât even close to being lmao) then ML is the god of TT
Yes
past the prime Waldner vs young immature Ma Long
ma long has big potential.. he will become no 1 world one day for sure
Prime JO wins easily. Ma is great and more athletic, but Waldner's unpredictability would have befuddled him (you can see it already here when JO was a shadow of his former self).
Malong was only 20 years old in this match.
Yep, Ma Long was great even back than. And Waldner was already 43, still doing good.
Different Generations.
still doesÂŽnt change the fact that malong have massive advantage in speed and reaction times
@@ChrisE-iy7okBut Waldner has massive advantages in experience and ball IQ.
I think a prime Waldner could win this match.
iChriZ NA guys... ma long is on a completely different level, how cant you see this.
I think many people are just infatuated with Waldner, thus there's many assertions of him beating Ma Long, Table Tennis is at its peak right now-the players are faster stronger, more physical , the speed of exchanges over the table is otherworldly and this time,Ma Long has been the most dominant player for the past 4- 5 years.
That clip was at 2009, when Ma long was just a forehand oriented player, his backhand was just for setting himself up, Now he's more balanced, he has more varieties in his game, his technique is near perfect, I don't think Waldner has a chance even against a forehand oriented Ma Long,
No. If a prime Waldner played in this generation he would have adapted to the way things are now to win. Back in Waldner's time, table tennis was about spin more so than now. That caused players to appear less powerful. But they had to due to the smaller ball. Whereas now, with the new balls its about a lot of spin still, but not as much. So there is an effort made for more power in the form of speed drives with less spin. And Waldner would have adapted to it just like everyone else. So Waldner would appear more powerful today with the bigger balls.
ChessArmyCommander
I understand your thoughts, But Really the Chinese game is built on spin and spin variations. We may as well say they are the masters of the art of spin, Ma Long and Co played with the celluloid ball for some time in the past too, And then it was really hard to engage the Chinese in Rallies because of their attributes,Even now its still difficult, though players who desire control in their game e.g Timo Boll, And to some extent Dimitrii Ovtcharov with his backhand inspired play still have chances against them,
So About Waldner, what I've read and heard about him especially his glowing attributes was his uncanny forehand topsin and his ability to play with many variations in his game, And this is something Ma Long has in Buckets,
Thinking about A Waldner being physical and fast, he'll be a dream to watch, But I'll make a comparison of the Top European and Chinese Players strength and power in the modern game, Arguably the most powerful strokes we've seen from players especially from the forehand has been Ma Long And Fan Zhendong and Xu Xin Strokes are so Spinny its difficult for anyone to control, So in terms of actual power imparted on the ball, They still come out tops due to their Technique which focuses on a stroke made will a full hand motion and the whole body generating the stroke.
ChessArmyCommander again, completely wrong. Waldner has a horrible technique compared to the chinese. It wasnt better, if he played 10 or 20 years later. If he was born a couple of years later, he wouldnt have won a single world champions title for sure, look at boll for example.
Should be "I am an Official..."
Waldner was the greatest ever games up to 21 points player. Also the greatest ever with the 38mm ball. When you grow up playing to these 21 point games and 38mm ball and someone takes that away from you it becomes a farce. My personal game turned to shit overnight and I started to lose to some serious ordinary players. Not that they were better than me but I lost all interest in the game when I realized I would have to start and learn a new way all over again. Some moron here decided to laugh at Waldners extremely unique ability, now your making me laugh.
Morons are morons, there's always a constant current of them passing by. They are to humans what dog shit is on a cake.
Hmmmm...
Ma Long smashes with the red side @ 2:24 .
What's the reasoning I wonder...!?
Its easier to smash with tenergy. Hurricane is good for looping not smash
The backhand side can hit the ball harder since the rubber is softer. If you hit the ball very hard on a soft rubber the ball goes "through" the rubber and you will hit it with the power of the hard wood from the blade. Forehand has a harder sponge and it is not possible to hit it with your blade.
Haha... As if it really makes any difference for wipeout put-aways... ââïž
Ma Long is the G.O.A.T no doubts
goat why. im a goat
waldner is old now
Theres only one,and thats waldner.and hes alone.ma long are maybe goat of the rest and thats a great archivement.china are a cheating country so no one i any sport from china can be called goat,period.
Agree
Na! Kids like these come and go. Will see if he can even last one more year.
Jul 2021: Two times Olympic champion
No gimmicks and hype just 5 olympic medals. Ma long wont end playing to overweight amateurs in some mall.
Well..... Waldner was 45 years old and Ma Long 24..... Ma Long won, but only by 5 points. In their primes Waldner would have won easy.
You are forgetting, waldner has too much experience and too much mental strength with so much confidence
Whereas for ma long...he was still learning at that time and had all the mental disadvantage.
â@@rohitsinghyxrs Waldner didn't have much experience with the 40 mm ball.
Waldner fans coping hard after ma long second gold huh? What happen to the great white hope? Next your tell me bird is the goat of nba đ
â@@traytyler9951I mean several top players would agree bird is at least one of the goats
Waldner tutta al vita
Walner the GOAT!
Not even close lmao ma long is the absolute goat Waldner is a joke