DCS: F-15E Strike Eagle | MPDs introduction
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- čas přidán 27. 07. 2024
- In this DCS F-15E Strike Eagle video, we will start by explaining the scope and goal of this series of video and then introduce the aircraft MPDs and some of their functions.
More videos soon. - Hry
Thanks to Notso for this very interesting video !
whens the expected month?
11 years since i remember it was last announced finally!
Please take my money! I need this plane now! kkkk🤓
When does the preorder starts sir?
I absolutely love the Harrier module, and I cannot wait for the F15!
Keep up the awesome work.
Thanks and will do !
This is huge. Been waiting for a F15E since the Jane’s F15 become unplayable in windows 10. And based on the effort I have seen in the Mirage, I am confident this will be a great addition to DCS. Let’s go Razbam 👍🏽
Jane's F-15 can actually be fixed in Windows 10. You can find some threads on Reddit that explain how to do it.
Beyond excited for this module. Might finally drag me away from dunking on the f18 pilots in my Mirage.
Everything looks fantastic from what we've seen, hope the team is all doing well!
Thanks and everyone is fine !
Been waiting to fly this in DCS for 10 years, this’ll be a huge addition to both Combat and aerobatics.
How so for aerobatics?
@@yoyoyoyoshua yeah i was going to say, im pretty sure the plane is a heavy garl
@@RAVIOLIdS They moddelling pw220 and 229 so will have excellent thrust to weight bro
@@adammccarthy3336 that is awesome
@@RAVIOLIdS F16 will find it very hard to dogfight it with 60000lbs
For those of us - like me - who were playing *Janes F-15* in high school, this forthcoming module is much looked forward to. Thanks to the earlier simulation (which was ahead of its time in terms of being very complete with a clickable cockpit - in 1996 !) makes the F-15E very familiar, and its systems equally so. Looking forward to making the purchase !
As a strike Eagle crew chief I'm extremely impressed. For obvious reasons this isn't going to be exact. Especially today with ADCP 2, APG 82. And other mods. But I can't wait for it to come out! Also I hope the Nav Pod has its features implemented, as well as the P&W F100-229 and not the 220... Big difference in thrust.
Sir, according to RAZBAM's forum they don't aim for today's version, this has many strictly classified components like the computer and AESA radar you mentioned which wouldn't be modeled anyway. They model F-15E Suite 4+ from 2002-2005, but probably with PW229 more powerful motors, rougly timeframe equivalent of F/A-18 and F-16 we already have.
It's better to have reasonably accurate earlier version, with original analog UFC, than fictional today's variant with omitted and completely changed classified systems.
@@bazejs8084 Makes sense
OPSEC: *Has entered the chat.*
Geeze that guy just told you 🫠
@@cyberpunkalphamale why are you so picky?
I cant wait for the mighty Strike Eagle to launch.. As a Air to air pilot I want the F-15C as a full fidelity module too 😜
I really like the effort RAZBAM has been trying to get their reputation back, i joined late to dcs but i like the AV-8B and the M2000 of dcs they are great modules
Thanks for the kind words.
I agree man, I didn't join late but I always had hope in Razbam and they have proved me right they're good at what they do now :)
@@RadZamb
INSTANT BUY!
As far as I could observe, they pretty much ramped up their pace after that "shitstorm in a water glass" thing with the Harrier coming out of EA more or less without changes and an actual announcement. They're kicking hard since that happened and the modules keep improving a lot. I've never been one of the haters, but that certainly gained me confidence in future RAZBAM modules (I mean, there's some really nice ones like the MiG-23 and EEL in the pipeline, I want those to be top notch!) and I think it's only fair not to bash them anymore for the rocky road they took in the past. They're all learning and improving every day and it shows. And I think a big part of that is that they never lost faith, regardless of the negative critiques they got in the past. Keep rocking!
@@charlies40556 i agree 160% with you, i joined abit later when the shit show happened with RAZBAM, and I supported them cause its an aviation module, things are private and some are released and some info is shared and its extremely hard to make an airplane in a simulator and I always appreciated every developer in dcs/p3d (pmdg in msfs the rest are a scamming joke besides the a32N fbw 2) even if they had issues in the past with the community for not releasing a fully polished module, there is a thing called time and updates just wait, you cant keep a module in beta for an eternity there has to be a point where u can say its out and will be updating the module as info is released and as we get our team together. Anyways Good job on RAZBAM for not giving up, i know the team has suffered alot and im happy they took a massive project that the f-15e is to prove those who doubted them.
Finally a video. Can't wait to get my hands on this thing
Great to hear from you guys!
Last video was 7 months ago… keep ‘em coming!
I have F-15:E Strike Eagle for FSX/P3D with the Tac Pack. And I still enjoy it to this day. I'm looking forward to the DCS version of this awesome Strike fighter.
Haven't been suddenly this hyped for SO LONG!
Thx a lot! Looking forward to more from you. Love it when the pros are engaged!
Was critical of RAZBAM work for years, but they totally earned my trust back with development of M2000 and harrier. Eagerly waitiing for this module :)
I will change my opinion of them as soon as they will actually finish any of their module's, and stop messing with them every 6 months. For now I will stay away from them.
@@zbieguzbiegu Thye are better then any crap Eagle Dynamics ever made (minus the a10)
@@fastfed the f-16 and f-18 are amazing modules wtf are u saying, literally my father was a formal f-18c pilot for many years and says its extremely accurate to the real thing and pilots of the f-16 in dcs forums also say the same so idk what movie u made up in ur mind tbf
@@RAVIOLIdS maybe now, the first year and yes I mean YEAR, it was horrible. Maybe Falcon BMS guys were ready to jump ship and they all lost the drive because of how bad it was
@@fastfed no shit if ur talking about when a game was released its going to be ass not polished not well known it was a small team of people doing a game in their free time lmao, you talk as if everything is so easy to do and start out lmao.
Looks great can't wait for the module!
Absolutely can't wait to have my hands on this and the f-4 both are going to be super fun
This is GREAT!!!! I hope you include the high-quality training as in the Harrier-excellent work!!!!!
Ahhhhh! Cant wait!!!!
Definitely looking forward to getting this one even though I still haven't learned 1/10th of the systems in the other Modules I've bought.
This is awesome Razbam, I have been a big supporter of your Mirage and Mig-19 and am loving them thank you for giving me countless hours of fun! :)
Ah this is looking really good. The harrier is my favourite module but I find myself wanting to do longer strikes and potentially in contested airspace. This will be the module for it bar none (I currently try in the Tomcat but you have to sacrifice tremendous amounts of air to air capability to have any kind of guided air to ground weaponry and most multiplayer servers will punish you for taking unguided bombs).
Also I really like the additional game options that come with Razbam modules, like the option to start with pre aligned INS (which is amazing).
Can't wait to see more! Great video thank you!!
Cannot wait for this. My good friend is an ex Strike Eagle driver and I cannot wait to fly this with him. Rock on Razbam!
So incredibly excited for this.
Good things come to those who wait.
This looks good, RazBam!
Looking good! Excited for this one.... Just been to see the eagles at RAF Lakenheath today.
Razbam you really did a complete 180 recently. I'll get F-15 on day one and Mig-23 too when it's coming out!
oh boy, can't wait for this!
Ive been craving for F15E sim since the days of janes F15!
My favorite feature of this plane was the ground radar with HRM . I cant wait to see how its implemented here and how it looks like
This will please so many people and satiate some of those folks who've been asking when it'll be released.
I can't wait man, I'm so excited!
Dude this is the most exciting module yet
thank you razbam for making this beauty beast....waiting for quite some time though as i started my dcs by bought both f14 and f 18 which are carrier based jets....however after quite some time i started looking a land based jets by bought mirage 2000c and moving both f14 and f18 onto land base operations
Looks awesome! Keep up the good work!
Amazing. Thanks for sharing some features in advance
Hyped!!! Great video
I honestly cant contain my exciement, I cant wait for this
Keep up the great work Razbam!
I'm more excited by the falkland map, but I'll still by the F15e day one.
As french I absolutely love your mirage and your recent upgrade (still hoping for -5 one day).
Thanks to all the people at Razbam for your hard work!!
Thanks.
Nice :) Looking forward to seeing this one pan out :)
Fantastic !!! A great reason now to get the F15-F18 TM add on stick. I tried once and it had a sticking weapon control switch so I sent it back to an Amazon dealer which probably just stuck it back up for sale without repairing it. Going through THrustmaster this time. Great vid and appreciate the upcoming Eagle …. Heeel yeah !
Thanks.
All three AV-8, F/A-18 and F-15C/E had this grip.
@@bazej1080 Harrier had the Trim and Sensor control switch reversed, not that it's gonna matter.
It's an amazing grip for center stick setups.
This analog original UFC looks awesome! It reminds me Jane's F-15.
The best thing about this is that they had a poll asking whether they should go with the original UFC or the newer digital one that was like 78% pro digital. Glad they went with the obviously good reasons to model the analog one anyway which I do prefer. In the end, it probably just comes down to what's in the Suite 4+ and the documents they have access to, anyway.
@@CakePrincessCelestia The new UFC started to go online only in 2010, since RAZBAM is modeling ~2005 aircraft the new one would be unrealistic.
Good to see progress
Great info. Hoping to upgrade my system before it comes out so I can actually play again.
I had the Harrier for FSX years ago: can't wait for this to come to dcs
Can't wait for this Strike Eagle
I haven't been waiting as long as others here have, but I have been wanting the E ever since I first picked up FC3. I'm super hyped for this but at the same time sad it's probably not anywhere near release.
Wow missed this when it first came out also rascals harrier is in a really good place now took a bit but I have faith in razbam looks soo good.
Is it really happening? So excited when this will be released. I dont know but I think this will be one if not most wanted module of all times! Keep up your great work! 👍😎
Great job, should arrive around the time I get my monster pc.
Can't wait to fly this bird, i'm so exctied when this comes out.
Nice.... looks so good!!!!
After 10 years finally!!!
I am really looking forward to this module.
Love it can we get an look at the Air to Ground Radar on the next video like a sneak peak? Keep up the good work, been following hard since it was announced!
Thanks for the video. I look forward to seeing this develop further. Amazing how jam packed it is with buttons and gauges for such a large aircraft.
What a nice surprise!
Good video, very informative thanks
Most awaited module on DCS
Displays look nice and easy to read
F-15 BOIIZ, THAT'S GONNA BE AN EPIC MODULE! KEEP UP THE WORK, RAZBAM!
Thanks and will do !
Please make the external lightings, internal lightings, and sounds as realistic as possible! :) I just purchased the pre-order :) Looking forward to it and I cant wait!
I got way to excited seeing this xD
Haaaa yes enfin une vidéo et pas des moindre :)
Please release this soon it looks amazing! (I cant wait to carry over 4 laser guided bombs, (Cause in the f14 you can only carry 4.)
About time. Looking forward to being a modern high fidelity eagle
Looks as if I will become an Strike Eagle driver after all... Thanks RAZBAM.
Looks awesome. If your recent work on the M2000 is anything to go by, I cannot wait to get it.
Thanks
but at the final this work is finish and this work is very good!
but I think that the work with the f15 will be more successful because at the time of the 2000c razbam did not have 2.7
What a beauty! Please seperate or include the throttle stop and throttle idle buttons for both engines. Thank you.
So I need to start flying my Hornet and Harrier a bit more. Both share many nuances with the Strike Eagle. I’m a Viper guy. Usually my go to plane!
Cant waitttt
Looks good team.
I bought the Mirage years ago when I learned about the Strike Eagle, just to see if Razbam we're worthy. The Mirage is my absolute favorite module, and the old FC3 F-15C is 2nd favorite. This is so big for me. I want a full-fidelity Eagle so bad. This cockpit looks fantastic. I'm really curious to see if it shares more USAF DNA with the Viper, or McDonnell Douglas DNA with the Hornet. I vastly prefer the Viper interface.
From what I remember form Jane's F15 and Razbam's F15 for FSX, it's similar-ish to the Hornet.
As an armchair general, watcher of this youtube video, and owner of both F-16 and F-18 modules, my guess is that it shares vastly more with the F-18. While I also prefer the viper interface, I will say that F.18 interface has it´s merits when you get used to it. Neither interface is perfect, and both interfaces has pars that I prefer over the other.
@@plkngtun Upvoted for those excellent qualifications.
@@henrikoldcorn Well thank you very much kind sir.
Man Hornet DNA all day, way easier systems for air to air and air to ground strikes. Just maybe black and white screens for flir instead of green. Lol need this jet and maybe a super hornet would be amazing.
Legendary
Excited for this one, just purchased the f16 so there goes my money for this model smh. Really wanted this but couldn’t just wait because I had no clue when it’s gonna come out
Good video.
Excellent ;)
Nice!!!!
Ever since the Kiowa videos, I'm scared to watch anything over fear of getting hyped 3 years before I potentially get to touch the damn thing
This looks super fantastic! I know it's too early but are we getting the F15 this year?
Cannot wait. Will there be an option to fly without cfts but with standard missile rails?
Question, can the conformal fuel tanks (with its draggy bomb hardpoints) be removed essentially making this into an F-15D albeit with a better radar? Will the this F-15E module satisfy those who aren't interested in air-to-ground and want an alternative to the boring F-15C simple flight model ?
Do all the screens have the same 'hot' buttons between pits?
This jet is gonna be the thing that tips me over from "yeah I'm saving up to get a good rig so I can fly DCS,"
to
_"HOLY SHIT! RAZBAM IS ACTUALLY DOING IT THERE WILL BE A STRIKE EAGLE FULL FIDELITY MOD!_
_NO! I have not, but now I will! Gonna have me some Death Eagle Of The Strikeness!"_
super Lg
very nice
Is the HSI the data link? I relatively new and unfamiliar with how the fa 18/ av-8b’s systems work
If this can be operated alone I'll be buying it. Not sure if I'll do it if otherwise. Got the apache recently and although I like it, I don't think it's very fun to fly with George xD.
Please release the sound pack for the M2000C engine. Thank you!
Personally, I feel like Razbam always seems to have too many pokers in the fire... That being said, the improvements done to the AV-8B and the Mirage have been great, and if the new map and the jet function well, im there for it :)
Question, don’t know if it was mentioned as I am watching at work. But can the PIC and WSO have different displays up? Or is it mirrored front and back?
See the answer further down in the thread. Independent displays.
Are Yall gonna put out more updates like these??
Good stuff !
Can we get a "switch" over view and Cold start proceed? Unless I missed a video?
I hope this isn't too off-topic, but I was discussing with the Grim Reapers DCS channel people how you would best counter the S-400 air defense system, and a few suggestion for new Mods came out of the discussion.
Please consider modeling the following, when you have a chance. I know that for many of these, if not all, there is not really as much information about the specs for as one would like when creating a simulation, but I would worry less about that than putting something in the game that fills the role of these systems and looks a lot like these systems, and then adjusting the specs over time as new informations becomes available. You might even allow the user to adjust certain specs about the Mod, for each scenario, based on what the user thinks is most realistic for the specs for that Mod. For example, how well does the MALD decoy work against the S-400? Nobody knows. It probably does not work well if within range of IR sensors on the S-400, which would see through the decoy, but beyond that, it would depend on how convincing the radar returns were, to the S-400 computer, how much energy was emitted from the MALD, at what ranges, which would give you a maximum range for the system, and there may be some range at which the MALD would not work closer than, because perhaps the decoy is more convincing from farther away, I would assume, until it is out of range because it had limited radio emission power. A commenter responded that the TALD is in game, so this could provide a basis for the MALD. The TALD (ADM-141A) is 8 feet long and 400 lbs, with a range of 78 miles, or 185 miles for the Improved TALD (ADM-141C) which uses a turbojet engine. The MALD is 9'7" long, 250lbs, and has a range of 575 miles, with loitering capability.
Proposed Mods include:
1. The "Miniature Air Launched Decoy", which would be used in any US strike into contested air space against a near-peer adversary. The MALD-J with the jammers should also be an option.
2. The ALE-50 towed decoy, which would likely be used in conjunction with the MALD, or after a strike. while leaving the area.
3. The RQ-170, which is what would likely be used for recon against ground or naval targets, now that the SR-71 has been retired, and the SR-72 is not yet in service. The RQ-180 would surely also be used for this purpose, but not enough is known about the RQ-180 to create a Mod. The RQ-170, one could argue, would have a radar cross section like that of the B-2, but reduced in proportion to the relative size of the B-2 and the RQ-170, if that makes sense.
4. As soon as something is known about the effects and the range, I would suggest you also create a Mod for the CHAMPS missile, or Counter-Electronics High Power Microwave Missile. This is a good system where for allowing the user to adjust the microwave output to what he thinks is realistic, and then modeling what effect that amount of microwave energy might have on various systems, if such a think can be determined.
5. The AGM-158 JASSM. In addition to the missile itself, it would be ideal to also have a Mod for the C-5 and the C-130 to release pallets of JASSMS, as planned for in the "Rapid Dragon Program".
6. The EA-18G radar jamming capabilities.
7. The AN/ALR-94 F-22 Electronic Warfare System. Even though not much may be known about this capability, it should be assumed that it at least exceeds existing EA-18G jamming capabilities.
8. The JSTARS system, which would feed targeting data on ground targets to the F-35 or JASSMS, like an AWACS feeds airborne target data to the F-22.
All of these systems would be needed to effectively counter a very modern air defense system like the S-400, but with all these systems used in coordination, it should become possible to overcome the S-400.
Also, I'm not sure how well the datalinks between AWACS, F-35s, F-22s, recon drones, etc. work in the game at this time. This is something that will become increasingly important in the future, with all air combat simulators, as this sort of sensor data sharing will determine the outcome of many battles in real like and in any realistic simulator. Same for electronic warfare, which the game must find a way to realistically simulate.
I think this will prove especially important for something like the F-22, which is supposed to be used primarily as a sensor and as a quarter-back from what I've heard actual combat pilots say. So the F-22 needs to be able to see AWACS radar data via datalink, without turning on its own radar, it needs to be able to see IR sensor feeds from the RQ-170 FLIR cameras via datalink, it needs to be to see JSTARS data on S-400 and other radar systems on the ground.
Perhaps one of the most important things to model as well as possible, in my opinion, will be the F-35 distributed aperture system, which is supposedly like a very sensitive infrared search and track system, which can look in all directions at once, see infrared target signatures in the air and on the ground, track all those targets at once, all the time, without a limit to how many targets can be seen. I have no idea what that would look like to an F-35 pilot, but I do know that no DCS mod will ever come close to depicting what the F-35 is truly capable of until it does accurately model the distributed aperture system (DAS).
One of the reasons I think it is so important to model this DAS is because I suspect it will be one of the primary streams of data that the F-35 will be sharing with the F-22, when they operate together. The F-22 does not yet have an IRST of any kind, and given the role it is supposed to play, I would assume that the F-22 will stay somewhat towards the back of the overall strike formation, with the RQ-170 Sentinel, the Global Hawk, and the F-35 towards the front of the strike formation, with the F-35 being especially useful, as the eyes and ears of the strike group, with the DAS system, sort of the linemen, while the F-22 serves as the Quarterback. For all of these systems to work properly in DCS, they will need to be able to coordinate their efforts, and share their data seamlessly.
Also, in a realistic simulator, missiles like the AGM-158 JASSM, which have their own infrared sensors, would likely lead the charge against something like the S-400, and as it does so, and it used its auto-target recognition capabilities to classify targets in flight, all of this data would be passed on to the F-35 and F-22 strike aircraft following up those JASSM strikes, which could use that data to confirm known targets and perhaps also identify other targets that may have been moved into the area since the last ISR flights. In most cases, those images would be passed back to command to make assess whether the targets were destroyed or not, and I would assume the most recent US fighter aircraft would also have the ability to see that kind of sensor data beamed in in real time via the datalink.
Some DCS pilots have also noted that it seems like the F-22s and F-35s should be able to see some satellite data, including SAR and optical images.
Thanks for hearing me out. Great work on the Strike Eagle. Very impressive.
A few more design features of the MALD, via Wikipedia:
"In November 2012, Raytheon completed ground verification tests for the MALD and MALD-J for integration onto the MQ-9 Reaper UAV. Integration onto the aircraft was expected sometime in 2013, with the goal for an unmanned suppression of enemy air defenses capability.[9] The company has also explored integration onto the smaller MQ-1 Predator and U.S. Army MQ-1C Gray Eagle..."
"... In December 2014, a MALD-J was test-flown with a radio data-link to expand situational awareness and allow for in-flight targeting adjustments. While carrying out a jamming mission, the MALD-J was able to send situation awareness data to the EW Battle Manager, which used the information to adjust its mission while in-flight..."
"... Radar jammer variant of ADM-160B by Raytheon. This variant of the MALD decoy will be able to operate in both decoy and jammer modes. The decoy and jammer configurations are key enablers supporting the Air Force Global Strike, Global Response, Space and C4ISR, and the Air and Space Expeditionary Force Concepts of Operations. MALD-J will provide stand-in jamming capability for the Airborne Electronic Attack Systems of Systems. It will be launched against a preplanned target and jam specific radars in a stand-in role to degrade or deny the IADS detection of friendly aircraft or munitions."
I dont think the S-400 have a IR Sensor which is only equipped by point defense system attached to the S-400 battery (btw IR sensor are heavily weather dependent to be effective)
Regarding the ALR-94 EWS its performance is basically similar to a Mini-JSTARS in terms of passive radio emission detection which could be Good enough to launch a missile passively. In terms of jamming its very effective since the F-22 has a much smaller radar signature therefore they dont need much power to hide it from radar.
@@gotanon8958 The Pantsir does indeed have an IR target locking system, although it does depend on a search radar to first detect targets.
I believe, when employed in combat, since even jamming would reveal a general vector of the sky to look into, you might have separate groups of F-22s, some escorting the strike group, probably with F-35s, perhaps also some unmanned systems like the RQ-180 and RQ-170 to scout ahead, and ideally, none of the aircraft in this group would turn their radars or their jammers on until detected, Meanwhile, elsewhere in the sky, a few F-22s could jam all the radars in the S-400 using the ALR-94, perhaps along with an a large number of MALD-J decoys (these MALD-Js all have their own jammers and their own radars too). This would allow all the systems on the ground, and any detected on the air, to be jammed continuously, without drawing attention to the actual strike group air to air intercept mission. That's how I would initially plan on using the systems, then I'd develop the tactics further in wargaming and training.
As for the IR sensors on the S-400 (and on the SU-35s, which are ALWAYS used in conjunction with the S-400, and which have their own IRST system), these sensors can be jammed too, it would just require a different method. I believe a beam of coherent IR light in one effective way to accomplish this. The most likely example in future engagements with the S-400 would be found on the same F-22 ALR-94, which includes "Always-on multispectral, radio frequency (RF) and infrared (IR) countermeasures enable rapid response for complete pilot protection". As you mentioned, flying in bad weather is another. However, it would he harder to jam the US sensors, not only because they are highly mobile and you wouldn't know where to look, how many there might be, in what configuration, but also because the US can stream IR sensor data on the missiles, like the JASSM, and on the decoys, to the AWACS, JSTARS, F-22s, battle managers on the ground, or at sea, which is much less weather dependent, when you can flight them straight at the enemy radar and take a picture from 5 meters away just before impact.
But are these IR sensors and countermeasures modeled independently from the radar countermeasures in the game, with their correspondingly different capabilities and vulnerabilities? Can we get a lock on with the F-35 DAS or the SU-35 IRST, without the enemy craft getting a radar spike or notification of lock? Can these aircraft use other, more distance search radars emitters and their datalinks to find enemy aircraft with their IRST or DAS, without having to turn their own radar emitter on? Is the in-game DAS capability anything like the situational awareness that a real F-35 pilot would have? Some of this can be correctly modeled, while some cannot, but all of it can be somewhat modeled, and where a system's full capabilities are unknown, such as in electronic warfare, how well a decoy works, etc., this could be a partially user defined variable, and then as we learn more about the capability, we can narrow down what these systems would realistically be able to do in actual combat, and until then, we can approximate it, and if we think performance is unrealistic, we could adjust ourselves until we think it is realistic.
Looks great! Are the displays duplicated for Pilot and WSO? I saw the WSO has 4 displays so I assume they at least have 1 that isn't tethered but in the video, the other 3 were showing the exact same as what the pilot had up.
Both the Pilot and the WSO can have anything displayed at anytime.
no they are not. WSO can have the tgp page open while the pilot messes around with the radar. each controlled individually and independently
F-15E, Eurofighter, F-4…
Screw it, DCS can have my life saving for all I care at this point t
😅😎
Awesome, when this coming to dcs?
does the strike eagle have hmd‘s?
or speaking in another way, is it possible for the rio to lock targets with the hmd and shoot sidewinders onto it? because that would be seriously OP if you fly with 2 humans :D
Are there download links somewhere for the specific missions you've created for these video's. They're excellent training. I'd like to be able to duplicate what you're doing since I then know what to look for along each step. It's easy to get off track if I try to create something "similar".