Why it's (almost) impossible to ski like Ted Ligety
Vložit
- čas přidán 29. 02. 2024
- Everyone talks about the ‘art of the turn’, but at Carv, we’ve made it our mission to go one step further, and turn that art into science.
We teamed up Ted Ligety, 5x world champion, to analyze his magical turn over 7 days in Sölden, Austria. What we found in the data changed the way we look at ski technique forever.
By marrying Carv's cinematography with our unique data science, we present to you, the art and science of the perfect turn.
Learn more about the technology behind Carv at: getcarv.com/device
Learn more about the analysis: getcarv.com/blog/why-its-almost-impossible-to-ski-like-ted-ligety
Resort: Soelden, Austria
Skier: Ted Ligety
Ski: Head Kore 87
Creative Director: Alex Jackson
Content Lead: Mark Davison
Filmers: Jimmy Williams, Mark Davison, Bolko Targosz, Luke Bredar
Editors: Mark Davison, Andreas Torner, Jordon Tiernan, Jimmy Williams
Graphics: Jack Sirkett
Color: Simon Perason
Sound: Stu Rolls, Jesse Peterson
Carv Team: Jamie Salter, Charlie Bickerton
Thanks to: Sölden Ski Area, USA Ski Team, Ted Ligety
Music License: MB01RGAEKUN4SSW - Sport
Absolutely incredible video. Thank you so much for the insight into how you guys really have worked for this project. It instills hope for the future of new ways to understand skiing. Bravo.
This is an amazing and well-made video. The data analysis and insights into Ted's turns vs the average or advanced skier really helps to show the differences in technique and validate Carv data that people have been so skeptical about. It proves just how useful Carv can be with the data it collects.
So, give us the graphs! Currently what's holding Carv back for me personally is the oversimplified numbers. "87% progressive edge build" with no other information besides those little blue shaded graphics just isn't cutting it. I want my graph! I want my graph with a comparison graph to a better skier so I can see EXACTLY where and how to improve! I want my graph for the same reason that everyone loved this video: the insight it provides is what makes Carv have so much potential. Why didn't you just use the app itself for this analysis? Because it wouldn't provide nearly enough insight. Clearly the data is all there - this is what can take Carv to the next level.
No. It is sh1t
Best Carv video yet. Bravo.
Thanks!! 🙏
This is possibile carv’s best marketing video. Explaining how to interpret carv data with such a great example is massively important to sell their product. Well done.
If you’re watching this from a ski resort about to hit the slopes tomorrow, hit thumbs up. This was amazing content, I’m sure you agree.
Thank you so much!
My son is learning to carve indoors. So I've saved this for later, when we are on the mountain and capable he can practice dragging his knuckles.
Cool tech, I think coaches would benefit from this
It would be great if CARVE offered data downloads so that the users could see their turns in graphs and not just numbers. It would help tremendously to interpret the numbers that CARVE gives.
So much this!
First Carv video that made me think I should get the system. If I can get 10% closer to Ted's skiing I'll be all set!
I've been to Sölden, I've skied this slope freshly prepared and as a former ski instructor I guess it looked quite well too. But that's what amazes me when I see good racing skiers go down a steeper slope: They just don't slow down, instead they seem to get more comfortable. I'm glad you took him into this kind of terrain to show the difference. Steep, icy, bad visibility, everything agains them, that's when they really shine, that's where you see the difference!
production quality of this video is off the charts
Thank you!
Except for white text over white snow background- can’t read it
If you look at Ted's bindings in the video he is not using a race plate which puts yout foot on a higher level...somewhat analogous to high heels. However with high heels, only the heel is elevated. This elevated footbed will allow you to get higher edge angles, but make the skier more "tipsy." Slalom skiers definitely used race plates whereas some downhillers won't use them because stability is more important than a very short duration high edge angle turn. A downhillers skiboot will also tend to softer and not as forward inclined as much.
What Ted can do which an old guy like me can't do is keep the uphill ski leg almost pressed against his chest, the downhill ski leg almost straight to resist G-forces and still be flexible. So you must have strength and enough flexibility so that your hip almost or can touch the snow, and strength along with ski rebound to power out of the turn on your heels and float into the next turn and really bend the boots and skis into a more forward weighted position.
Why Ted was so successful in GS is when there was the 35 meter FIS rule for skis, nobody could figure out how to bend the skis enough to make a short carved arc, including Ted. So he invented the stivot which is still used today, especially when a racer is late in gate timing in GS, or the course setter is trying to make everyone DNF. The stivot is a pivot of the skis in a skid to get them pointed in another direction without losing too much speed.
I would like to see Marco Odermatt put Carve in his boots. He is known for applying a really high force and edge angle just above the fall line of the turn. Ted's carve graph was well rounded, and I suspect Marco's graph would be more pointed than Ted's.
marco dont flex ankles he rotates his hips ankles in reverse motion from edget skis to flat skis durning transition ski tips pointing down hill not edget on daiagnol he dont counter flexing ankles advancig insite leg ski dumping upper body up hill hip down he angulate staple upper body insaide hip up outsite hip down flexing hips forwart down down all pressure from hips to set edget from flat skis down motion flexing hips down reverse hips rotation is his advantage
without plate you get higher edges angles edges angles decrease with distance hi done thys on purpose dumping upper body to insite turn to achive higher edget set to impress now nothing
@albertmaziarz6739 Maybe use some capitals, points and commas to make it readable?
@@collinbel1363 i am austrian
No race plate but it looks like he has those bindings raised quite a bit more than you get with a race plate anyway.
Those turns are pure art
🖼️
Wow.. beautiful to watch Ted go through his paces.. the smoothness of his graphs was really amazing.. but thats exactly what it looks like from outside the boot also.. we all probably know we're not doing something right, if we think about our skiing. The most insightfil thing is Ted saying how Carv captured how he feels. We probably dont think about how everything feels enough..
Feeling, data, visuals, these are all amazing tools. But like Ted says in the beginning, you gotta love the process of improving - and that’s what drives most of us here on YT and at Carv as well
@@CarvSki totally agree... I think about every turn, sometimes a moment too late, but skiing is a lifelong commitment for me, and motivates me on a daily basis.. cheers
By far the best content from you guys so far. Gorgeous video and hopefully compelling for anyone who loves carving but hasn’t got Carv. I’ve used for 2x seasons and it’s massively helped me. Currently at ski:iq of 133 so some way to go to Ted’s level… 😂
Loved the video. As someone that started skiing as an adult and is still trying to build up my confidence and skills I am excited to see how Carv helps me do that. I did get it at the beginning of this season, hopefully it will keep improving alongside myself for the next few seasons. Keep it up!
Glad it’s helping you. It’s our mission to keep improving our understanding, measuring and coaching - if you can measure it, you can improve it 🫡
I never reply to adult learners but somehow I felt an urge. Don't worry about any of the technical points in this video, or any other. What they don't tell you is you can't get good if you have normal adult fears lol. Adults learn how to turn so they don't go too fast and hit a tree. Kids have to be convinced to turn because they have no concept of danger lol. You can only become a solid skier if you can go straight down the mountain but you're choosing to turn. You gotta get comfortable with speed, forget all the technical information, it's not golf. The other piece of advice I can give you is generally not to listen to anyone from an island without mountains when it comes to skiing lol
Absolutely amazing! Thank you very very much CARV!
Our pleasure!
Amazing production and video.. your quality is top notch now. amazing product as well. the best tech i have for sports for sure
I love this docu-style video that explains the difference between regular skiers and someone like Ted. Awesome! /Janus
Such a good quality study and representation in this video!
Love this kind of content. I'm sold!
Superb video with Ted. Thank you for this. About to order my Carv now having started simply watching all your incredible content over the last six months.
Awesome, thank you, let us know if you’ve got any questions
Always love watching Ted ski! :) I am 42 years old, ski instructor and Ted has been a great inspiration to me for many years! I grew up wanting to ski-race professionally, but being born in Denmark it was extremely difficult for me to achieve, and as such I didn't. But my love for skiing has endured, and next season I will most likely be working in St. Anton, Austria, but if not, then I will head back to Utah (where I was exchange student in 1999), go to Deer Valley and see if I can find Ted :D
There is an awesome community of Carv users in Deer Valley & Park City who also share your passion for skiing. You should hit them up if you go!
I don't even ski and this was the most interesting and informative video about the theory of turning. Lots of data easily visualized and interpreted with some of the best video production ever, comparison of Ted vs everyone else was detailed too. Definitely piqued my interesting in skiing, maybe someday 😂
This Video put Carv on the map. Great video!
What an awesome video. Probably the best I've ever seen in youtube. Most probably have to get Carv for next season ;-)
Wow, thanks!
Great video. It’s nice to be able to compare how you do with other people you admire. Really enjoyed the breakdown of what a person can aim for. I just got a pair but forgot it at home when I hit Whistler this weekend… but I’m there every weekend anyways but would have still liked to have them to check out the off-piste (we just had 1 metre of snow in a week!). CARV was less interesting when it was just on groomers because we just don’t have as nice groomers as in Europe. A lot of the terrain in Whistler just ends up being bumpy as people chop up the run.
Just brilliant, could watch Ted ski all day!
Wow. Didn't realize the VP of development went to the blister event in crested butte! What a nice guy and very understated.
Your product is excellent! Truly excellent! 😊
Ahh thanks! The team love what they do 🤓
@@CarvSki I had a great time trying it out! Got to 125 IQ on some enforcer 104 free's. Not exactly the intended ski, but the feedback was accurate.
That’s a very respectable score on wider ski, especially as the snow started to come down making it a bit choppier out there
@CarvSki How about a video on how to access the graphs you were showing? Can I do that with my Carv app? I like my Carv but being able to drill into the data at that level would be seriously amazeballs!!
@@dmp4096 Click on your ski IQ score and then scroll down. You can see each scored run, the basis for the scoring, where it happened, etc.
Reset after each day to see changes.
This was an amazing experience. I am going to by the Carve system as a result. I want to turn like Ted next season!!
This video made me finally want to try Carv. I haven't yet but I'm tempted.
Whoever does this video production is extraordinarily talented. Well played.
Thanks you - it was a big team effort
Really interesting and enjoyable video I've used CARV for 2 years now, my son bought it for me as a Christmas present ! The improvement in my skiing has been amazing. I don't think I'll reach Ted's levels , but at 67 years old I couldn't really expect to !
However I enjoy my skiing much more , paradoxically I'm much slower over the ground but have way more control and confidence. I'm told I look better too !
Great improvements Paul
This is WONDERFUL analysis. Thanks.
Glad you liked it!
I wish I could click like again! So interesting to see how far to the right on the bell curve Ted is, and to see, essentially, the gold standard, the benchmark to strive for.
What an amazing video.... Hoping to see Odi trying out carv soon
my season is finished unfortunately - watching this just makes me want to get back out there to try skiing like Ted - carve is epic - my mountain buddy pushing me when my buddies aren't around - thanks carve crew - yeeeeeewwww!
We’re glad you love it!
Amazing video! Need that black run added to the leaderboard. Would be so interesting to compare the data!
It’s on the leaderboard - he got between a 165 and 167 consistently
Did my coursework on Ted's turning arc, biggest inspo
That snow is HERO!
Very interesting analysis. I have to admit that improving your turn on steeper hill is absolutely crazy ! Years of handling crazy pressure build up. I would love to see the data of the other crazy turner and only guy that could rival Ted at his prime Marcel Hirscher.
I was just going to say, these two are my favorite technical racers. Both are incredible technicians
Best video ,,, thanks
When I see video with Ted l click like faster than the light. As an instructor myself I show Ted as the best carver ever. In my eyes he is the only one that made the extreme carving turn in competition level look like an easy task.
He is amazing!
Love it !!!
Yo, the marketing on this video! I'm still learning, but I want to beat his scores now. Or get to half at least. For him to say that no one in ski racing has had this data before just shows how this could help the next level of ski racers. Kinda want this now!
Very nice piece of technology - I wish I had have access to this 25 years earlier 😅.
So awesome to be able to measure and look at the turn data! Could do this all day! Would be incredible to also have sensors on knees, hips, shoulders and maybe arms, to learn more - like how deep Ted sits down in the turns, etc.
This could also be helpful to analyze people with all kinds of gait/movement issues!!! Any plans to do this?
Great work Carv!❤
PS - also could you use audio tone/pitch and amplitude/stereo position to provide real-time feedback? Wish I was back in grad school working on this!!! Cheers!
Thank you! We think it’s pretty cool as well
Wonderful
Fantastic vid!
Glad you enjoyed it
That ia a great video! Thanks a lot for that @Carv! Can’t help wondering if the racers on course next him knew who was shredding…
he turned a few heads thats for sure
About six years ago I was teaching a group of kids at PCMR (Park City) and for fun we went to the NASTAR course to take some laps. I was on tele gear and poorly tuned skis. Ted had the top time (of course) so I decided to have some fun. After about 1/3 of the way through the course I just straight lined the remainder, not making any turns. Ted's time was still more than two seconds faster than mine on a 19 second course.
Loved it
awesome stuff! but how does he smooth out those pressure curves? that would be interesting to ask him
Great video . Thanks ! Could be nice to have a benchmark with other top Skiers (Odermatt, Pinturault, Schwarz, Sarazin, Kilde ...) and why not Schiffrin ? Thnans again. Very insightful
Noted - we'd love to ski with those great names! perhaps something for next year
Really interesting and amazing camera work.
Glad you enjoyed it!
This is how a ski racer turns. Once in a while you can see a former racer ski freestyle and it's so much fun to witness.
Whoa….that was next level. Inspired. Gotta break into those 140’s.. I will get there.
We believe in you!
Carv is an incredible piece of technology.
amazing video and study！
Thank you!
Give me Ted´s leg strength and I´ll see what I can do.
Very cool video! Carv is a pretty cool system
Thank you!
With the right snow, the proper edge preparation, the right ski shape, the right ski construction, you can find it's not letting go and higher edge angles are possible.
Now THIS is an epic video, so insightfull yet so simple and clear... Great job.. And yeah, noone is gonna have a chance to ski like Ted Ligety unless you have a great TALENT + you dedicate your whole youth (or 15years) to reach this top profesional level
Thank you 🙏
Amazing video and content. Maybe it is almost impossible to ski like Ted, but I'll keep trying.
So will we
How much does the ski type the skier is skiing factor into the rating system? i.e. if you use a 100 or a 110 ski underfoot versus a race ski? Is it different for an olympic level skier versus say a good instructor?
It would be great to be able to view these graphs and data on the carv app how they show in the video. I find that the app lacks the availability of raw data. I would love to see these changes be made!!
Our metrics are essentially mathematical representations of features of the curves that Charlie and Jamie discuss in this video - though we are looking at bringing the raw data more into our app in the future.
I would love to see this tech be developed for water skiing There is a large community of competitive water skiers that would absolutely love this technology for slalom water ski training
Carv is fantastic; as a recreational skier, I will never come close to skiing like Ted, but I can now feel the freedom and joy of skiing that, before, Carv would have required an elite level of coaching reserved for a fortunate few. And something not mentioned but vital, Carv makes skiing safer.
We’re so glad you’re enjoying it!
WOW it's perfect video ;)
Awesome! Carv, may we please have similar charts in our app? We also want ability to look at averages by slope gradient range. The point in the video about steepness is extremely true. - 160 Ski IQ skier
Thanks we will consider this over summer
If these guys came up with a sister product called "skid" it could measure my turns.
Hi. First off , what length of ski is Ted using as well as the underfoot measurement in the glacier ski scene . Also does he mount his skis at the midpoint factory line or front or back of this factory mount line. Knowing this makes a huge difference in ski turn performance. I'm sure his boot and ski prep ads to his performance. I know he still would rule on poor equipment but I thought it would be interesting to know how Ted sets up his equipment.
Ted is skiing on head 87 kore for this video
Cool video. It shows the level at which people like Ted operate. And for sure it is easier to clean carve on a blue run. I have a mate i ski with once a season for a week or so. I keep on telling him to work with me on blue runs so i can get his carving better and improve his ability to vary radii of turns which will help skiing in all locations inc off piste. But he doesn't want to know 🙂 So he's stayed the same level for a decade now. Skiing is a game that takes time and effort, if you want to improve performance. Nobody can simply put on planks and get fantastic without training. I guess it is one of the things that makes it so satisfying when you get to a high standard, that you overcame the tribulations and made it happen!!
The pros have skies more blues and greens than the rest of us combined!
@@CarvSkiBlue runs are about perfect for working on solid carving technique and learning how to adapt turn length and adjust your technique accordingly. I tend to spend a fair bit of time skiing them as a preference. Don't get me wrong i love a fresh groomed black, like Swiss in Courchevel, or Goitschel in Val Thorens, but they always get lumpy fair quick, which does make charging down them carving at speed a bad idea 🙂
I would love to be able to see my own graphs. The numbers that we have available now arent really telling me how should i change my skiing.
All it took was two minutes of honest analysis to debunk this with 100% certainty. Thank you, I believe in this and would rather not waste time on things that aren’t legit.
There's Ted talks and Ted Turns. I'll take the Ted Turns , Thank you very much. Amazing slo-mo footage!
Thank you for coming
Would love for Carv to collect data on other greats like Michaela, Marco, etc. and make that available in the way that Trackman has with pro golfers. Would be fascinating.
Great idea thanks
Oooh Tiefenbach Glacier, looks somewhat like our film @Thomas Rønnaus😂
will there be carv for snowboarders? :O
The key to high results in sports skiing is not in corners or parallelism. Now it is a matter of speed (time) for pairing turns & ability to maintain pressure in the desired phase of turn.
The datasets mentioned in the video do not contain this information.
Super
How does Carv work on ungroomed terrain? Have you tried measuring elite skiers of other disciplines? For instance, someone like Shane Mckonkey is an example who comes to mind who would sometimes purposely slide through turns by tilting off his edges on very steep terrain. Or what would the results be if you measured Mikaël Kingsbury in the moguls versus Ligety? What differences would you see between those types of guys and average expert skiers on that type of terrain?
Carv has just started branching into un-groomed terrain with a terrain detection algorithm. We’re looking into measuring all the things you mention and more and will be release more videos diving into these topics over the next season. Thanks!
Great video.. but why is the pressure visualization of Ted vs. instructor differ from 11:46 to 12:05?
11:46 is a comparison of ted on a blue vs black run - 12:05 is ted vs the instructor- both on a black run
Nice video. Thanks!! but also, the comparison is a bit flawed. of course you're going to see a huge difference between Ted's turn a regular good skier. The comparison should include one or tow additional top competitive skiers. That way you could see if he is indeed the best ( most inclined) "turner" or other features of his turn.
Fair enough! it would be interesting to compare the top ranking racers for sure.
I'm coming for that title, old man! Hahaha
How many turns are averaged to form this graph? How does the software evaluate the "start", "middle", and "end" of each turn? Based on the bumps I see in the data (especially for the graph at 9:28), I get the sense we are looking at carefully manipulated data that may not give the same clear answers for skier who is not supported by a team of engineers.
The graphs are created for each ‘segment’. The app generates a segment any time a skier starts and stops, so it could be anywhere between 2 - 200+ turns.
The software uses a algorithm trained in millions of turns to identify the turn window, and then shows the different measures, e.g. edge angle, over the time of the turn window.
We have more detail about how we measure a turn on our website: getcarv.com/blog/how-carv-turns-your-skiing-into-data
I love the slo-mo from various angles. It helps me see the inner leg position more clearly! I got the Carv footbeds in January when OpenSnow had a discount. In the 2 months I've had them, I've improved my turns considerably, from 115 to 130. I can really feel the carve now, and not just the stem christie skid! For whatever reason, my best scored turns are on black diamonds, not blues, not greens. I've always liked the steeps and the data shows it. The immediate feedback, every turn, is a game-changer, telling me which turns are good and which are meh. Thank you!
What length core 87?
Would be nice to see graphs like that in Carv
I support this^
Our metrics are essentially mathematical representations of features of the curves that Charlie and Jamie discuss in this video - though we are looking at bringing the raw data more into our app in the future.
This was super interesting. In God we trust. Everyone else, bring data. The data tell us why and how Ted is so awesome. Impressive. What is the old tag line from advertising days past.....often imitated, never duplicated.
Now.....if the future Carv system can give positive feedback to the footbed to the skier and somehow in real time allow the skier to change what he is doing, that might even help me ski better. But probably not like Ted!
I would be curious to see how it would compare to the data of Marco Odermatt 🤯
I was turning like that before Ted was just a glint in his dads eyes.
Would love to see the same analysis for Marco Odermatt
I feel where Odermatt is the strongest, is he only do as much edging as he needs, so if the course is less twisty he is able to maintain a higher speed by braking less and still turning as fast as others. But yeah, only my personal understanding. would love to see the data.
How does ski length, sidecut, dimensions, ski flex, ski slope angle, conditions impact the validity of the data? Wouldn’t you need the pro ski coach to be on the same slope and using the exact same equipment to compare?
You cant carve properly without a raceski.
The softer the ski the worse your performance.
@@r00kiet80 Ted is using Head Kore skis in the video. They are for intermediate skiers and they quite far from typical carving skis.
@@lukaskotik3458 i know
Anyone know the brand and model of jacket that Ted has on here?
its Kjus
Am I right in thinking he is carving on all mountain head Kore 87mm?? Perhaps a wider base is better for Carv turns with a higher radius? Ie you won’t get sprung out of a turn so quickly?
Yep Ted is on a Kore 87
You will have alot more force underfoot with an actua race ski not sure why hes skiing such a wide ski propaby because hes just doing it for the fun and not for perfect turns.
Would be nice if CARV had a shin pressure measurement also. That would present a complete picture.
We measure the pressure between the foot and the ski - we think that’s the best place to measure ski performance
How about the change in foot pressure measurement from the toe to the heal through the turn?
BTW - In auto sports, data is the only way to improve one’s performance, no matter what it feels like. I just got into doing data analysis and pulled 0.4 sec out of one turn on a road course. Bravo for bring this to skiing.
Can you make a small size? 22.5
Were the three subjects using the same ski? Would be interesting to remove any variability attributable to ski length, design, etc
100% we’d love to do this
Will we be able to see the same graphs in the app?
Not at the moment - but the graphs directly relate to your metrics - and all the things we talk about in this video are what guide our metrics
The metrics are basically mathematical representations of specific features of these curves
Ted's amount of a frame was equal to yours. He uses gradual angle in and out of the turn. That's what's great
Ted is definitely the edging master
Also, concerned about how you measure data for total pressure, considering that isnt really a valid metric. Average pressue or total force would make sense, but theres not a unit for total pressure.
Total pressure is not measured - it’s only looking at relative pressure over time and between feet - so we can see the ‘shape’ of the application of pressure. That’s why there’s no unit.
Different skiers of different weights, using different boots and skis make absolute pressure a more challenging metric to look at. Relative pressure shows really great technique insights without the other factors
That leaves two main questions for me, one of them on the video:
- how does someone like e.g. Shiffrin, Odermatt or Hirscher compare?
- how thick are those insoles? I use some lifted Sidas insoles in my boots, so i'm picky about this...
Insoles are 3mm
We’d love to get the people you’ve mentioned above and others to ski on Carv so we could compare 🤞