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Studio Speakers: Should you get a second (or third) set of monitors? - AcousticsInsider.com

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  • čas přidán 5. 10. 2021
  • ►► Download the FREE Phantom Speaker Test to find the best position for your speakers → www.acousticsi...
    Are you one of those people who collects speakers like they're sneakers?
    A different pair for each day of the week? (You know who you are..)
    But even if you've just got that one set and it's not really working for you.
    You can't really hear what's going on in the music, balancing is tricky at best, adding space just never ends up right, and let's not even talk about the low end...
    So now you're thinking about getting that other sweet looking speaker set.
    You could just set it up right next to your existing set after all...
    Well I'm here to tell you:
    Don't!
    It's not gonna strengthen your insight into the music in any significant way.
    In fact you'll make things worse because it's going to compromise the performance of your existing speakers.
    If you want to another window into what is happening in your music, you need to do it the right way.
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Komentáře • 76

  • @TwoScoopsOfTubert
    @TwoScoopsOfTubert Před 2 lety +13

    Not to mention pretty much all of your room's acoustic problems will be present in any system(s) you have, so the best option is still treatment first

  • @KebbaPropulsion
    @KebbaPropulsion Před 2 lety +10

    I like to listen in the park using my Bluetooth speaker......can instantly hear if my low end balance is off. Then can adjust it in the studio. I like to go between monitors, headphones and the Bluetooth speaker in different environments.

  • @HER-icaneForceProductions

    So helpful as always! You just talked me out of dropping $300 on a pair of NS-10's to A-B test mixes with and save the $$ for things I need more. (One thing I certainly do NOT need is more studio clutter!)

  • @jeffhirata
    @jeffhirata Před 2 lety +5

    A lot of great points here. Thanks! I think your last point is the most important as you say. You could also mention that you will have the same/very similar room modes. If you have a big dip at 70 Hz, and a big peak at 120 Hz or other room problems, a second set of speakers will have that same problem.

    • @dougweier1
      @dougweier1 Před 2 lety

      Great thought, but I’ve found this not to be true. I had a set of speakers on top of my main speakers and the null was 100 cycles higher because of the first reflections from the floor.

  • @peterstevens7401
    @peterstevens7401 Před 2 lety +4

    Your overall points make great sense as usual! In my case, a pair of Avantone Mixcubes sitting on top (!) of my Mackie's has saved my life in terms of the number of iterations it takes to get my mixes to translate across multiple systems. I suppose there could be some sound degradation between the cabinets . . . but it hasn't seemed catastrophic and this arrangement allows both to be in the stereo field "sweet spot." My workflow is: get a basic mix on my Mackie's (824s), advance the mix on my Avantones until it sounds as good as possible there, the balance between sounds and left/right and front/back is where I want it, then I check highs and lows on my headphones (Sony 7506s which really boost both ends) and then finalize on the Mackies while checking on the Avantones now and then. This approach usually means 1 draft, 1 listen on other systems (car, living room, phone), and then a finalizing step in the studio.

    • @unclemick-synths
      @unclemick-synths Před 2 lety +2

      I start out with my cube speakers for a quick faders-only mix. That way the general balance of the all-important midrange is established. Then I switch to my main speakers and the tracks that have excessive highs or excessive lows become evident and I can use high shelf or low shelf EQ to rein them in.

  • @DubFreakuencies
    @DubFreakuencies Před rokem +1

    Totally agree, makes sense to choose speakers that compliment each other, rather than being similar.
    Have a pair of genelec 8331 (3-way), avantone mix cube and iLoud micro, and occasionally use my Mac mini loudspeaker.Most of the time I mix in mono just with the Mixcube.

  • @amdenis
    @amdenis Před 2 lety +3

    After 30+ years of work in this mixing, mastering and post, checks with “horror-tones”, headphones and primaries can be very useful in learning how mixes translate. In fact, for several years I did car-checks as well. Once you develop that knowledge and skills, you may well have developed sufficient single monitor set translation skills. However, some years ago we added a dozen additional matched monitors for 7.1.4 Dolby ATMOS mix support. While mixing down to headphones is useful for ATMOS, a LOT of bad mixes result from headphones-only ATMOS mixes.

  • @justinkatipa9577
    @justinkatipa9577 Před rokem +1

    I agree with what you’re saying but at the same time I have different views. I do most of my rough mixing with headphones to preserve my hearing (sounds counter intuitive but I can feel mixes better at lower volumes this way), then I tweak with Yamaha hs7’s mounted in my standard listening/working seated position. Then as a reference I have some terrible Yamaha 6.5” bookshelf speakers because if my mix sounds good on those I know that I’m not far off being ready to have it sent for mastering.

  • @RudeRecording
    @RudeRecording Před 2 lety +1

    Good info! I've always preferred coaxial or point source monitors [I'm currently using Equator d5 with KRK S10 with SonarWorks calibration] with a pair of Auratone Mixcubes for secondary reference. Motown used a 6x9 in an Olson Electronics cabinet as a reference as they were aware that most of their audience listened on AM radio in a car. At the moment, I'm using a set of SonarWorks individually calibrated Sennheiser HD 650's for my secondary reference instead of Mixcubes. I've noticed marked improvement of portability in my mixes.

  • @thomaslutro5560
    @thomaslutro5560 Před 2 lety +7

    One thought on the Boom Box: In order for you to actually make full use of its potential as a mastering reference. you have to listen to the recording through it while carrying it on you shoulder. :D

  • @unclemick-synths
    @unclemick-synths Před 2 lety +2

    Cube speakers really help. The mids are key to translatability. It's too easy to have full range speakers and create a mix where the bass relies on its depth and other tracks rely on sparkly highs so it sounds great but then the mix changes drastically on other systems.

    • @dougweier1
      @dougweier1 Před 2 lety +1

      100% agree. It’s important to have a zoomed out big picture view of the mix. Limited range speakers are great for that

    • @AllHitsPlaylist
      @AllHitsPlaylist Před rokem

      @@dougweier1what kind would u recommend?

    • @dougweier1
      @dougweier1 Před rokem +1

      @@AllHitsPlaylist I love my yamaha hs50ms for just vibing with a song before I get to the details with my mains

  • @dougweier1
    @dougweier1 Před 2 lety

    I love you Jesco but I think this is bad advice. Having a second opinion from another set of speakers is invaluable for me. It’s more than worth the small compromise of the main pair. With that said, i think you give incredible advice in all other areas! Thanks for your videos.

  • @BUZZ_LIQ
    @BUZZ_LIQ Před 2 lety

    Hahahaha this was our conversation !! Tks a lot jesco!! ❤️👊🏻

  • @valleywoodstudio7345
    @valleywoodstudio7345 Před 2 lety

    Useful info - The Fostex 6301 is a great little mono reference which I also use.
    I use Genelec 1030a as my main, but I also have another pair of Acoustic Research AR18s as they are not reflex (they are infinite baffle sealed box) set along my side wall - the crossover is just a single capacitor to filter low end away from the treble driver so does not work in the same way.
    I feel they give me a suitably different perspective - tighter bass time response and also less crossover confusion or "veiled" mid range.
    90% done on the Genelec and Fostex - the AR18s give insight if I'm a little awry in the presence range. I guess the AR18s are suitably different to the Genelec!

  • @AmazonasBiotop
    @AmazonasBiotop Před 2 lety

    Yes, of course we should use more than only A pair of speaker for judge the mix. As pair of headphones especially if they are emphasize the bass that is something a pair of bookshelves can not produce by them self.
    And with a pair of headphones it is more cost efficient than with speakers and a lot of treatment just to get the first octave somewhat listenable (~20-40 Hz).

  • @intermission1864
    @intermission1864 Před 2 lety

    Hey thanks for a the deepdive with underdog- So much knowledge and insight!

  • @figitaltechno1699
    @figitaltechno1699 Před 2 lety +1

    How do you feel about monitors like the Barefoots which aim to emulate several different sets of speakers? I have the Footprint 02s but I feel like the emulation is a bit gimmicky.

  • @RominaJones
    @RominaJones Před 2 lety

    That was very valuable. I have been wondering that for awhile and this made so much sense.

  • @AmazonasBiotop
    @AmazonasBiotop Před 2 lety

    Yes, no compromise only optimize! 😉

  • @RAYSHIO
    @RAYSHIO Před 2 lety

    Makes sense brother. My setup is PMC result6 with a sub and single Avantone mixcube, Audeze headphones. Feels like I'm in control of everything. Like and subscribe.

  • @RadekPilich
    @RadekPilich Před 2 lety +1

    Could you maybe do a follow up on multiple speakers in environment with multiple work positions? I.e. DAW with main speakers and 90 degree rotated second station with synths and second speakers? Or without second speakers - how to best compromise for higher degree of work positions.

  • @ぷちりいか
    @ぷちりいか Před 2 lety

    Thank you! This is just what I need!

  • @steve5662
    @steve5662 Před rokem +1

    Hi there... I am trying out the focal 50 evo and the 65 pair.. I was thinking of keeping both so i could check to sub frequencies before rendering but use the 50s to mix on as they wont bother the neighbors...the 65s sound amazing but the sub frequencies give me anxiety that im blasting the neighbors even though i keep the on very low volume... what are your thoughts... thank you and greetings from Finland

  • @HowardPettit
    @HowardPettit Před 2 lety +1

    I have eve 307’s but I like using a Bluetooth speaker like the jbl flip too. As that’s very representative of what a lot of music is now being played on

  • @alexanderewing3779
    @alexanderewing3779 Před 2 lety +2

    Thanks again Jesco, for the useful info. I was wondering, I have one mixcube that I got really as a mono/mid reference. Is this a good idea? Haven't tried yet!
    Keep up the good work.

    • @unclemick-synths
      @unclemick-synths Před 2 lety +3

      Cubes really help. Do an initial faders-only mix on the cube and then switch to your main speakers. The tracks that have excess bass or highs will jump right out. Similarly those that lack low end or high end will also reveal themselves.

    • @alexanderewing3779
      @alexanderewing3779 Před 2 lety +1

      Cheers for that. Do you mean run a mix through the mixcube first, to get a balance, then through monitors. I thought it was the other way about? I'll give it a go!
      Alex

    • @unclemick-synths
      @unclemick-synths Před 2 lety +1

      @@alexanderewing3779 yes, cube speaker first. Just a rough faders-only mix to get a balance based on the mids. Then switching to the main speakers you will quickly hear things like unbalanced bass instruments. If the bass guitar is okay in the cube but leaps out of the main speakers, it needs its low-end pulled back. Same with vocals that are over-bright, you'll reach for the EQ pretty quickly!
      The guiding principle is the mids are the key to translatability because lows and highs vary the most between different speakers and environments. Getting the mids in the ballpark from the start is easier than trying to tweak a mix you had been happy with until you heard it on a different system.

  • @kjmusic2541
    @kjmusic2541 Před 2 lety +2

    Are there an cheap lasers devices that can help with setting up speaker angles?

  • @sh1maru
    @sh1maru Před rokem

    What do you think about using small full-range speakers (like ik multimedia iLoud) in super near field (about 30-50 cm) to minimize room influence? Could this be a good idea for a second pair?

  • @iam-music
    @iam-music Před 2 lety

    Great outline...a lot of great info BUT there is a mix paradigm; 60/30/10.
    This type of workflow is best with 3 sets of (DIFFERENT) speakers and is explained by people like Marc Mozart etc and similar to what you are saying. I migrated to this and it revolutionized so much including my tinnitus. I dont want to re explain but for a contrast; please read his books...along with the above, it will give a solid perspective...but there are some very 'pro' youtubers with new studios...and Im not sure who designed them but from a boundary/acoustics point of view...they are a bit cringey.
    Just a recap on the 60/30/10 for the sake of your ears
    1. 60% of mix time is spent on single way (often mono as you suggested) because it focuses on the magic of the midrange of course and I find this is so much easier to make the broad eq brush etc. I only really care about 100-10k on these (as mentioned, many use auratone etc, I use small aurasphere) and this is usually calibrated less than 76 db. These are particular sensitive and play well at lower volumes
    2. 30% of mix time (very roughly) is bottoms/tops on nearfields at higher levels (I also use a flat shaker on my mix chair to check for eg 30hz because you simply wont get accuracy at that level in smaller rooms and its much easier to feel below 50hz than hear it (These are in the listening sweet spot). These are also very sensitive and much better than studio staples like HS7 etc
    The best 2 ways still sound phase smeared compared to concentric
    3. 10% is simply final checking at louder levels on high res ie for me atc16
    Yes agreed...a 2nd set of the same type is absolutely useless!
    There is a lot more to it...and on top of all of this of course, important to train your ears/references but when I do listen to other mixes, references etc, I can immediately hear front to back/mids on the 60, left to right/top/bottom and spacial adjustment (because of FM curve at lower volumes) etc on the 30. I have tried a lot of stuff...and this works so well compared...NS10, auratones, ATC, Adam blah blah...nothing comes close and the translation is so much better after 30 years of mixing.
    I totally agree with room treatment as the first issue...to the point I run a business manufacturing studio solutions with tuned QRD, continuously variable diffusion etc...but volume in a small room is also an issue and especially with your ears as you get older...protect that gift of hearing and use workflows that support protection.
    Really appreciate your input and will check out your other stuff including;

  • @ArthurMcGDM
    @ArthurMcGDM Před 2 lety

    I just learned this. I bought a second pair recently and has the same frequency issues from my room. No point

  • @J4n1k1
    @J4n1k1 Před 2 lety

    You say you use a midrange Mono speaker to See the mix from another perspective, i isolate the mix With a eq 100-5000hz and Switch too Mono ( i have a Shortcut to sum to mono and for the eq ) is this a proper solution or is this a Bad idea because phasing??

  • @zam200864
    @zam200864 Před 2 lety

    Great vid, tried to download your test, but it doesn't show up in either my primary,social, or spam folder

  • @Charlie_Echo
    @Charlie_Echo Před 2 lety +1

    You say you have your mono midrange speaker off to the side and in another pro studio I've seen it off to 90° from the listening position. Isn't it unhelpful to have the sound coming more strongly from one side? Or do you turn to face it and then keep turning back to adjust things?

    • @gutshisalamanca1191
      @gutshisalamanca1191 Před 2 lety

      Of course you only listen to one set of speakers at the time. Then again, walking around the room, listening to how your mix / favourite tracks sound in different positions helps you to gain a notion of what sounds right. That can even incorporate the way your desk is vibrating “the right way”. In the end it’s all references. One important thing for me is to have 2 steps of volume for listening back, one louder than the other (fletcher & munson can really play tricks on you!)

  • @nado3775
    @nado3775 Před 2 lety

    Top notch content!! 🔥🔥🔥 Thank you

  • @hansdumbf7608
    @hansdumbf7608 Před 2 lety

    What about placeing your speakers inside a wall? I heard a lot of people do that because it solves many reflection issues?

  • @AmazonasBiotop
    @AmazonasBiotop Před 2 lety

    Yes, my 18" is hanging with steel wires. From a big tripod. So it is optimized with hanging in mid air no compromise with a speaker stand. 😉

    • @Zarabozo
      @Zarabozo Před 2 lety +1

      Except that, if your speaker is not very solidly placed (e.g. it can move when touched, even wobble), then the response is already compromised, as the sound it produces pushes and pulls the air, and that same energy gets the monitor moving (even if you don't see it) and altering that energy that should be getting to your ears without loss/alteration.

    • @AmazonasBiotop
      @AmazonasBiotop Před 2 lety

      @@Zarabozo Good thought. 👍
      If I get or want to test if that is the case then it is just to anchor it with a extra wire.
      And when it is in my case deliberately adjusted for 17 (rumble filter for the TT) to 53 Hz that is not that small movements that can not been seen. It's not a tweeter anyway.

    • @unclemick-synths
      @unclemick-synths Před 2 lety

      @@AmazonasBiotop I'm with Francisco on this one. I think you'd be far better off with sturdy sand-filled stands than wires introducing all sorts of resonances.

    • @AmazonasBiotop
      @AmazonasBiotop Před 2 lety

      @@unclemick-synths Good to know that you are with Francisco. 👍
      "Introducing all kinds of resonances"
      Wow that sounds serious or to broad generalization that might be a sign of insecurity and lack of knowledge.
      Have you seen a 18" subwoofer on a stand? Generally they are to big and heavy to be elevated.
      ~97% of all subwoofers are standing on the floor.
      As we know when moving a subwoofer close to a wall we get a reinforcement of the wall BOUNDARY with ~3 dB and do we move it also closer to the next wall so it is in the corner then we get additional ~3 dB more.. but is there not 3 boundaries in total..
      Generally people talk about the MORE bass they get as i pointed out above but more seldom it is talked about the quality of the bass.
      So not only do you get a more bloomy, bomy and indistinct bass. (=bad sound quality in my experience.)
      The objective of elevate the subwoofers from the floor is because of just sound quality. The floor is another boundary.
      And as for a wire should resonate as a string that is less of a probability or issue than the floor has a impact on sound quality that is measurable.
      👍

    • @unclemick-synths
      @unclemick-synths Před 2 lety

      @@AmazonasBiotop wires resonating is pretty much a certainty - stringed instruments rely on it. If a tripod will hold the weight then a decently engineered stand will have no problem.

  • @dodgingrain3695
    @dodgingrain3695 Před 2 lety +3

    The title is kind of click bait :( A second set of monitors is a good idea for lots of reasons and its obvious that buying a second set that is similar to the first set is pointless.

  • @stupendousmusic4190
    @stupendousmusic4190 Před 2 lety

    EXCELLENT 👍🏻

  • @alexanderewing3779
    @alexanderewing3779 Před 2 lety

    Oops! Should have watched to the end before posting!!

  • @cfig81
    @cfig81 Před 2 lety

    This question might sound crazy but I been thinking about this for some time, here it is:
    What do you think about mixing in a 4.1 speaker kit? Not for TV film surround purposes, my intention is to be emerge, like when you are in your car, I wonder if this method will be helpful. Could you try it and make a video about it. 🙏🏽
    FYI: I’m mixing in a 9x12 room

  • @kjmusic2541
    @kjmusic2541 Před 2 lety

    Are isolation pads (by Auralex or similar) a benefit on speaker stands if the speakers are larger than the stand platform?

  • @chrisbistrishki
    @chrisbistrishki Před 2 lety

    If your motto wasn't "home studio treatment techniques, but without all the voodoo", it could probably also be "always delivering the cold hard truth about what's objectively right for your home studio", haha. Rational arguments and clear to-the-point explanation as always! ❤️

  • @MuzixMaker
    @MuzixMaker Před 2 lety +1

    Since most music today is consumed via earbuds, shouldn’t that be part of the mix and mastering workflow? I never see this mentioned.

    • @sudd3660
      @sudd3660 Před 2 lety

      no never! all mixes should be done to the best ability to make the best sounding mix possible. sop that people can have better sounding mixes as they get better gear and room.
      people with shit hifi dont care about soundqualety anyeaus so it is illogical to make anything sound more interesting for those folks.

    • @unclemick-synths
      @unclemick-synths Před 2 lety

      TC only as a secondary check - it's too easy to produce a mix that sounds okay on headphones but a mess everywhere else.

    • @MuzixMaker
      @MuzixMaker Před 2 lety +1

      @@unclemick-synths Yes that’s what I meant. Like checking your $$$$ monitor mix against NS 10s.

  • @domdraper3221
    @domdraper3221 Před 2 lety

    Buy once cry once.

  • @Ikmijnnaam
    @Ikmijnnaam Před rokem

    It is truly amazing but I keep asking questions no one is ever covering why ? I do not know that !!! so my question is very simple it could NOT be simpler yet .... 8 billion on this planet not ONE is covering it now am I asking the smart questions or is this planet just stupid ok here we go : how do I connect 4 studio monitors PLUS a subwoofer so a 4.1 system ? I connect them with an audio interface with 4 outs so then 2 outs to the sub then the crossover does the rest for the first 2 monitors and then I use the OTHER 2 outs on the audio interface to go to the rear studio monitors ? is THATTTTTTTT how I connect them ? NO ONE IS ANSWERING MY QUESTION !!!!!! NO ONE on the dammmm internet has an answer so that is why I am thinking am I just smart or is the world just stupid ?????? So how do I connect 4 monitors PLUS a sub ? I know there is a crossover in a sub so that takes care of 2 but what about the other 2 ? Just using the other 2 outs on the audio interface ? Anyone ???? I mean anyone ????? Or crickets again ? ANYONE ????????????????

  • @meinwegalsproducer
    @meinwegalsproducer Před 2 lety

    would it be a good idea to hang the speakers down from the ceiling?? just thought about the Positiv sides, the are always like u set them up, no rotating if you exedently walk to close an turning it a few degreese, ok the cabeling would be a mess if you have to route them up the wire, along the ceiling, down the wall to you desk.... but i think this would be a great Solution.. how about your thoughts on that??

    • @unclemick-synths
      @unclemick-synths Před 2 lety

      They might not be mounted firmly enough. I went to a small studio once and their "main" speakers were hung from the ceiling on chains! 😁 Their other speakers were NS10s (which I hate) but at least they weren't blowing themselves around.