The Science of BPD (with Elliot Douglas) | Sci Guys Podcast
Vložit
- čas přidán 11. 03. 2023
- Elliot returns to chat about Borderline Personality Disorder, clear up misconceptions & share what it it's like to live with!
Follow Elliot on Instagram: / evolutionofelliot
Grab our merch: normalcitizen.store/collectio...
Support the podcast on Patreon: / sciguys
WATCH EVERY EPISODE:
bit.ly/2z3ifN0
SUBSCRIBE TO SCI GUYS
Apple Podcasts: apple.co/2TAPC3h
Spotify: spoti.fi/2H91rZu
CZcams: bit.ly/2Z7bWTk
JOIN OUR DISCORD
/ discord
FOLLOW THE PODCAST
Twitter: / sciguyspod
Instagram: / sciguyspod
Facebook: / sciguyspod
References & Further Reading
www.nhs.uk/mental-health/cond...
www.mind.org.uk/information-s...
www.nimh.nih.gov/health/topic...
www.nice.org.uk/guidance/cg78
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...
www.psychologytoday.com/gb/bl...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...
bpdfoundation.org.au/diagnostic-criteria.php
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NB...
Follow the SCI GUYS
@notcorry / @lukecutforth
When I was diagnosed my mom said “there’s no way you could have that that’s caused by bad childhoods” 😅
Haha 🤣
My mom laughed when I said I was going to therapy..... Ummm ma'am.... You're the reason.
I'm afraid it would b a hurtful idea to my mom to say I had a bad childhood and I don't really think I did, but there was certain instability and conflict
i haven’t watched the whole thing yet so maybe you get to this but re: the name of the condition - historically psychologists used to think that psychological disorders could be categorized into two groups, “neurotic” (e.g. anxiety, depression, ocd) and “psychotic” (schizophrenia, bipolar 1, etc.). since people with BPD can experience transient psychosis under stress (or sometimes profound dissociation that mimics psychosis), BPD was believed to be on the “border” between neurosis and psychosis.
I was misdiagnosed bpd at 15 (totally illegal where i am but also wildly common) and itll always be on my file even if greyed out, the discrimination and dismissal of people with bpd is so freaking upsetting
Edit: hearing Corry go through the criteria was super validating, being able to go "yeah i cant relate" and yet still being cautious when i tell new personal medical professionals that i work at a broth (el) cause i know theyre likely to see a greyed out bpd dx and assume im being reckless as opposed to just furthering a career. I cant imagine what people with an accurate and standing dx have to go through with medical professionals
The shark para scope analogy is one of the best I've ever heard for internal perceptions being wrong. I have some social anxiety, so I constantly feel like people are upset with h me when they aren't, so I just tend to ignore the niggling voice in my head saying "this person is upset with you". And that's terrible when people are actually upset
bruh this is such a great episode. im dx BPD and this was so nice to watch that 1 - a person with BPD is being listened to and i can relate and 2 - two people who dont have BPD SEEING THE STIGMA and wanting to talk about it with kindness :')
I have BPD big time. I've finished 12 weeks of DBT 6 weeks ago. Also have a lot of ADHD, and I might be autistic. I guess for these reasons the sensory skilling part didn't work so well on me. The skills cupboard was just full of stim toys that are nice for my ADHD but completely fail at emotion regulation. I can have uncontrollable emotions and play with stim toys at the same time. What worked for me though is talking to myself in second person as a kinda caregiver figure. That way I can handle stressfull and intense emotions in seconds. Scored 8/9 DSM V diagnostic criteria.
So excited for an episode with Elliot! 😄
i have bpd and ive spent three months in a facility that deals with personality disorders specifically. i also have medication that really helps a lot. its hard to put into words how much therapy has helped me not only the sessions but being in a really safe environment with some of the most wonderful people ive ever met. my life has improved so much since then but i know that there is always a chance of me falling back into old habits and thinking patterns so i will probably need some form of therapy for the rest of my life
Listening on Spotify now, I probably have BPD, mental health professionals have identified traits but are dragging their feet regarding an official diagnosis 😅 I feel like a lot of the symptoms present when I'm already dysregulated, like, my day-to-day mental health feels like an ENTIRELY different kettle of fish than when I get to the point of crisis. I also have a toddler now (unplanned) who really helps my mental health and motivates me to get my shit together so that he can have a stable environment and consistency (although I suspect I may have autism and/or ADHD, which are often misdiagnosed in women as BPD although I reckon I have that also 😅). I probably do need to start thinking "how would I react if he felt like this?" and treat myself accordingly. Apologies for writing out War and Peace but last thing: I think I read somewhere that the "borderline" is to do with it being between neurotic and psychotic as a disorder, which is interesting
Don't know where I was going with that but you told me to comment and I'm an oversharer ✌😚
it was called borederline personality disorder bec they recognised the disorder as on the boderline of psychosis and neurosis
100% correct!
That was the funniest quick-fire quiz of all of these shows so far. 🤣
Thank you for being in the show, Elliot! Being honest about a stigmatized disorder takes a lot of courage.
I have BPD. I am 22 years old and in my first healthy relationship. I just recently realized I can't fix this myself so I'm finally getting back into therapy after 5 years of running from my diagnoses. This ish is hard
Breaking out of the black and white style of thinking is so exhausting. Even sometimes I know I feel one way but because of something else I can't change my view on it. And the only way to get out of that is to challenge those thoughts internally but it really does feel like a constant battle against myself and it is exhausting over time. So now I'm more exhausted and the information gets fuddled in my brain
Nice to see Elliot again! My sister is seeking a BPD diagnosis.
I’ve never see 3 humans communicate in such a genuine, rational, and gentle manner especially about the topic of BPD. It’s both soothing and refreshing. This is my first time seeing This channel and instantly I hit subscribe. Thank you for existing and thank you for sharing❤
On the similarity you saw between autism and bpd: A LOT of women are misdiagnosed with bpd when they actually have autism. If you're a woman with autism it's most likely you get diagnosed with bpd, NPD, ocd, anxiety, and/or depression. Mental health professionals would rather give women all these labels, a lot of the time at once, than acknowledge that someone is just autistic. I'm glad there's more awareness nowadays, but a woman will usually only get the autism diagnosis if she seeks it out specifically, often only when she has children with it and notices it in herself.
I would also encourage you to look into the link between anorexia and autism, it's quite interesting how like 1/4 of women with autism have/had anorexia as sort of a form of OCD.
@@kookiethhy2223 *pikachu shocked face*
@@kookiethhy2223 That makes so much sense when you say it. Of course my desire to fit in and feel 'normal' would have an influence on my self-image.
I knew about the historic misdiagnosis of BPD in women but never thought about anorexia and autism! I'll look into it more later but would there be an unconscious part to it influenced by the autism to just plainly forget to eat, compared to actively making the decision to restrict intake like anorexia nervosa is usually presented as being? And like what the previous commenter said, also a link between different outlooks on body image due to autism and how that may spur actions on that result in chronic or temporary "bouts" of food restriction or caloric denial.
Edit: I just remembered how some have no appetite when on AuDHD medications too, so I can see how that's such a slippery slope in the medical sense of developing non-restricted anorexia.
I know friends who get this with undiagnosed ADHD too when they aren't out and surrounded by external pressures to go "Oh, food! I'm starving, let's go grab something." without making the connection that they're starving because they haven't eaten all day. When they're at home without those external pressures, they purely just forget - even with reminders set.
The links are all quite fascinating, really!
@@kookiethhy2223 It's eating disorders in general. Binge Eating Disorder is also very common with Autism. I don't know anyone with Bulimia, but I'm sure that is there too.
Afab people are often misdiagnosed with BPD instead of ADHD
I'm someone diagnosed with bpd, I haven't seen the whole episode yet, but I'm genuinely shocked. I'm very aware I can't trust my own perception, but I didn't know that there were people who could actually just trust theirs, I just thought other people were better at deciphering when they should or shouldn't trust it.
BPD is also significantly under diagnosed in people assigned male at birth. A lot of the symptoms are often expressed differently between amab and afab individuals due to gendered social conditioning.
And overdiagnosed in afab. Its like the oposite of autisem, that is ubderdiagnosed in woman
That's actually pretty sad because there is tons of amab that does need help and that will never get any because it's stigmatized as a feminine disorder
I really enjoyed the episode. I knew little about BPD before watching. Now I definitely know more, which I appreciate a lot.
cried watching this. love you guys
Ha, the moodswings are indeed just absolutely wild. One day I remember feeling the lowest depths of life to the point of it being unbearable, and 10 minutes later I found myself laughing hysterically at some random YT shorts. 15 minutes later? Oh, boy. I was feeling ecstatic and was working out vigorously with full drive.
As if nothing ever happened prior to all that.
I got diagnosed the following week.
Same... At night I felt so depressed and i was seriously thinking about unaliving myself and the next morning I woke up at 6am and went to uni as if nothing happened
A person who I was not a friend with, and was not interested by be friends with have BPD.
I had them on facebook as they were an acquaintances girlfriend.
One day I come back up to my computer after having had lunch. And see an entire rant on my messages inbox.
It went from "hi hello I am this person" all the way to "hey aren't you gonna respond you m effer, " and "have it your way then!", Without any interaction from me.
So I asked why they thought it was okay saying hi to someone and then yell at them when they dare have a life where things happen.
It ended with me informing them that we would never interact again, and blocked them.
I had interacted and tried to be their friend before this moment but it had not felt right for other reasons.
But essentially what happened was that they guaranteed being abandoned due to their fear to be abandoned.
I've been diagnosed with bpd and for me the biggest problem is that I can't think rationally when I have intense feelings. I just forget about everything and drown in the feelings. I tried creating some sort of plans like "the next time you're feeling like this, write down your thoughts or listen to some music" but the moment I start to actually have an intense feeling I can't bring myself to doing it. I just always end up acting on impulses
Thank you for this episode! I was diagnosed late in life so I am still learning about my disorder everyday. I appreciate tackling this topic that many professionals are wary of treating because of the stigma associated with BPD.
I recently got diagnosed with BPD (I also have other mental disorders that stem from childhood), my parents don’t believe in mental disorders though so it makes everything really hard and has made my depression increase dramatically since I was 10, Im almost 17 now and they still haven’t made any changes in the way they treat and they don’t care to actually learn about any of the things I have or listen to me about how the things they do affect me. It’s only just over a year more until I graduate high school and no longer have to stand them constantly
Honestly, this was so refreshing and reassuring to listen to. I just recently got diagnosed at 29 after being in and out of therapy during my early 20s.
When Elliott described his experience i felt so relieved in a sense, because i could relate sooooo much to it.
I've never been able to put my finger on what's wrong with me and honestly started to think that I'm possessed by a bad spirit or something.
This gave me so much hope that i can get better and also you guys being so open minded and non judgemental made me feel much more confident to be accepted by other people.
Tldr thank you for the podcast!!
a beautiful and expansive conversation, as always
SO EXCITEDDD
When Elliot said bad person disorder I died 😂 cause same! The amount of times my brain is running the I'm a bad person mantra on loop throughout an episode or a bad week or even a bad day is astronomical at times. I am working with DBT and myself to force an alternative into that loop that I'm good and deserving of good things ❤
this is the first episode that made me cry, but in a good way.
“I can almost guarantee that your family isn’t planning to kill you”💀
A genuine thing I think a little too often
I have BPD, but I have other comorbid diagnoses tht are stronger than it. I just got diagnosed when I went to the psych ward the first time.
Elliot is lovely!!
Elliot reminding Corry that he doesn't hear much has the same energy as me saying "I can't see shit" when I'm not wearing my glasses and someone tries to show me something
I would love to see an episode on transactional analysis!
I wonder if psychedelics therapy can help BPD since it's a trauma induced disorder, since it can help with PTSD and in some instances sometimes cure it. Though even if it can, it would probably not be to the same degree, since it sounds like BPD is more ingrained, but who knows? Maybe.
it’s very very rarely cured because it’s usually developed during childhood/puberty unfortunately. there are ways to regulate it and manage it, but not many people have been cured of it.
Bpd usualy comes with "physical" sensitivity too, so more chances to get re/traumatized under psychedelics
Yes I have BPD, I have hundreds of scars all over my body from self harm in my early teen years. I'm 23 now I still struggle but I believe I'm alot more self aware. I have been an AIN for 6 yrs I've also done crazy side hustles a throughout those years because because of my unstable self image.
I study my bachelor of nursing now... Definitely won't be your conventional nurse I'll be a cool nurse 😎
And I just wanna try help people that don't feel they are good enough. Cause we are all miracles ✌️
ive had suspicions of having bpd but im not sure at all, the thing that makes me suspect that i might have it the most is the mood swings, today for example i woke up feeling shit but a little while after i was laughing and giddy but like a couple hours later i got really sad and suicidal, it got so bad that i self harmed and felt very bad and suicidal for a couple hours and then i was feeling fine and then i felt not good again then i was laughing and excited, but idk lol
54:24 pay no mind to this sacred time stamp
The refusal to diagnose anyone under 18 with bpd is honestly infuriating. I had a friend in high school who was diagnosed almost immediately upon turning 18, but she'd had incredibly obvious, stereotypical BPD to the letter since around 8 years old. Sure, maybe that's rare, but I simply don't believe that should be a rule. Especially considering that my friend had been on nearly if not every psych medication that could ever be prescribed before that diagnosis
this!!!
I have Autism and when corry said that the sensitivity thing as similar I thought of many things which brings me to my rant about music I moved school and when I went up to the keyboard the letters were written in the keyboard there weren't any number for finger placement and the teacher didn't know how to play keyboard. I got so upset and annoyed I walked up to the teacher and said why are you teacher keyboard if you don't know how to play keyboard then I had a rant to my friends about it for the rest of the week. It happened on monday.... I'm still mad
Can’t stand when people think or call it just like emotionally unstable disorder ( just tell us to grow up instead or other words) , does it really seem like people actually care or understand or want to, i don’t think so… it’s funny when we know who we are and want to isolate to save burden and looking out for others emotions, we are pieces of shit in the end… lmao makes no sense it’s a lose lose battle… I’m just here for the people that don’t have it but know someone who does, don’t be mad at your bpd person, be a little mad at yourself for not really caring ( just know your bpd person would’ve been there till the grave ) … also don’t be mad when your bpd person throws out the Heisman trophy back… when you get Heismaned your whole life, you learn to Heisman back…
perfect analogy 12:20 frowny face intensifies
It‘s not that you can‘t trust what you see. It‘s more that you have emotions in situations w other people most people don‘t have.( or at least not in an existentially seeming way) You interpret your and other‘s emotions and actions differently bc your inner mechanisms, ones you learned unconsciously in very early childhood as reaction, as immediate coping mechanism to unbearable, uncontrollable emotions. BPD is called a structural disorder. It affects the whole structure of personality and identity. As a little kid we react automatically to a situation where our immediate needs aren‘t met by the primary care person. ( Doesn’t matter if there was a real objectively measurable threat or just a subjectively perceived one by the baby) We depend completely on them and when a basic need for survival isn‘t met in that phase of development, we build a mechanism to not feel the fear of not surviving, we try to cope on our own although that isn‘t possible in those early days realistically. These reaction are so immediate, so strong and they set in later in all kinds of situations with other humans.
We need to work totally against our impulses to unlearn those early on built mechanisms. We have to learn how to interpret our and other ppls actions and emotions and motives. First step is to become aware what we really feel and why we feel for example intense fear of abandonement. While we understand rationally quite quickly, it takes a lot of time to change our emotional mechanisms, to change how we feel about ourselves, to connect with our inner selves in a healthy way, to act based on observations and not on our impulses.
It helps to think about it all, but that is not enough for healing. It‘s a long process of self observation and training of taking action based on that observation. To have the support of a patient therapist who is honest and can stay calm when we are impulsive, is very valuable for the process.
I am too young to be diagnosed with BPD but am being treated for it with cognitive behavior therapy anyway. I'll likely be fully diagnosed if my symptoms persist
I have BPD!! And Bipolar Disorder as well 😅 Yeah, it sucks
I wish Corey had gone over the difference between BPD and bipolar disorder, because the whole thing about emotional extremes is common between them. Learning about the differences really helped me understand BPD a lot more.
@@fozziebean yeah! I could explain it to you if you want to!
I dont think people that fake-threaten their lives think its "okay" either. Its more like they feel they have no other choice (even though they do) I assume due to the intensity of experiences
definitely. ive had to talk myself out of this a couple of times. i have never thought of it as okay, i dont mean it to be manipulative, but i will never ever say this because of the amount of guilt it puts on the other person. no matter what im feeling or how intense it is. i do understand the people who do say it. ive been there and im certainly on the mild spectrum so i cant even imagine how strongly they may feel. it really does feel like the last option.
Hey guys I love your podcasts but I thought it would be cool if you did the psych to go podcast tag! Psych to go is a CZcams channel who just posted a theme for podcasts and you can make podcasts and tag psych to go! You don’t have to but I saw their post and thought of your show
Yes 😂❤
23:50
(neutral tone:) I feel like there is one guy that talks the most, and answers very quickly on anything that Elliot says, while I hoped to hear Elliot more and have the others ask him questions and giving him space, instead of commenting with their own perspective and comments that are general or about themselves. But anyway kudos for the podcast. I also hear 'you should' etc, when talking about coping with emotions, and this strikes me as a bit icky when there is a person with BPD in front of you. Letting them tell how to cope would make way more sense. The thing with mental illness is exactly that some things are harder, or require other methods than neurotypical ones, or feel just much more physical, or involves lack or control and losing the skills needed to self-regulate. Those are the important problems. There are no neurotypical solutions to neurodivergent problems. Simply saying 'don't do the borderline thing of not checking in on yourself' or something like that is a bit like saying 'just don't have BPD'.
That’s the format of the podcast. This isn’t an interview, but more of a conversation around the reading the “one guy that talks the most” has done.
The “you should” was probably advice from the NHS or some other health service, rather than personal advice. Elliot couldn’t have said it because he hasn’t read it.
We understand mental illness & neurodivergence. I have ADHD, I’m not proposing people “just not have BPD”, but parroting advice from trusted sources.
Dude samesies, all the criteria except anger. I don't think my relationship with anger is healthy, i have a lack of outward anger, lack of assertiveness
BPD gal here too🎉
I dont have BPD as far as im aware
Dr sm5😭😭😭💀💀💀
My partner is seeking a diagnosis
I'm studying MSc Clinical Psychology! This is gonna be a fun one :D
any idea about what your talkin bout
Catching up on the episodes I missed during last term of university and I have to say these outros are getting to xqc level ridiculous lmao 😭
Borderline actually isn’t a good description of what the disorder is and I’d say EUPD is a less derogatory term
3:42 I want to watch these podcasts but I feel like I can’t because the information isn’t there. Have you considered having experts by profession on as well as experts by experience? Borderline means the borderline of psychosis and is an outdated term because it’s not though to be accurate anymore. The “other” book you want is the ICD - international classification of diseases, and is basically like the European version of the American DSM. They do have differences in diagnosis and terminology for some things.
why the fuck are you smiling