TIMESTAMPS: 0:11 - define psychic distance 1:30 - reading and comparing 2 types of third person (distant VS intimate) 4:42 - change your perspective 5:28 - understand the difference between external and internal narration (and how they overlap) 6:41 - the objectivity of POV lies on what the narrator tells/does not tell you 7:15 - but how do I actually write intimate third person? 8:34 - get into the body 9:07 - what is psychic plane? 11:21 - go back to the senses 12:02 - example of when a character is impacted by narrative detail (intimate limited) VS when they are not (distant limited) RAPID FIRE TIPS 15:19 - watch your passive voice 15:52 - watch your -ing verbs 17:18 - create a language environment 18:19 - cut filters
I truly don't think there is anybody else discussing this type of content regarding actual craft. As much as I love watching videos about how people schedule their writing blocks or who their favorite Avatar: The Last Airbender character is, things like Passive versus active voice and intimacy through point of view is just something that I'm not getting from other content creators. You are an angel of prose bestowing blessings upon us plebians. God bless the algorithm for bringing me to you 😂❤
ahhh this is so so kind!!! thank you! if I may share another creator on here who also does more niche craft content, my pal Shaelin Writes is incredibly talented! if you're looking for more vids like this, their channel is perf!
“The opening feels less like a summary of events and more like someone experiencing something in the moment” This... changed my life. Thank you so much! I was writing the opening chapter of a fic which felt a lot like a summary even though I intended it to be closer to my POV character. So I put it aside, started over with “He should really have worn something warmer.” and everything changed! But I couldn’t pinpoint what was different between the two openings. Anyway, the whole video was extremely informative (especially the part on filters!) so thank you very much!
This is particularly well-timed for me since I've been thinking about narrative distance and the psychic plane in my own work. I have a particular love for close third; I roleplayed for nearly twenty years and it was my POV of choice because it, in my opinion, could be so intimate while also offering me, as the writer, flexibility and frankly, a safe cognitive distance. But I just finished the first draft for a piece that is pushed much further back than I'm used to, and it's been interesting working through my own desire for closeness while also recognizing that it wouldn't be appropriate in this instance. Anyways -- cool video, always love hearing what you have to say about craft.
all spot-on as always. I’ve had to think about this topic a lot since I shifted the POV of my book from third person omniscient to an intimate third person narrated by a character in the book (and often switching into first person) - obviously an enormous leap. that weird mixed pov is HARD to write as well and this video definitely helped me clarify some of my thoughts on it
S. A. Soule wrote a wonderful book that covers what you are discussing. "The Writer's Guide to Character Emotion" She describes "Deep Point of View" and specific examples for the student of writing. Well worth a read.
Thanks for sharing. This was really helpful as I'm writing a Third Person Limited with multiple viewpoints. I was worried about how to best write the narration between each character. I'm writing the narrator as if it's unique for each character because I would slip into a tone of voice that would match that character. So, the narrator feels very subjective. For example, one character is a reporter and thinks very analytically, so her narrator has similar analytic qualities. Another character is a mercenary/bounty hunter, so he is gruff and has a superiority complex, and the narrator describes the world around the character like that. I know a lot of stories stick with maybe 1-3 characters for 3d person multi like this. Since I have it switching between 6 protags and at least 2-3 antags, I hope I can tackle that successfully and not be too confusing to readers.
I also had to read Dead by Jaymes Joyce for a class I will take this video as a sign because I've written a big amount of my book with 1st person POV and sometimes, it feels strained instead of authentic, so I've been thinking of changing the POV. 3rd person comes more naturally to me, even when I try to describe feelings
This was so interesting and informative, especially how you illustrated the difference with the excerpts. I loved the one about Elisa being vegetarian 😊 it made me want to read your book, alas it cannot be! 😃 By the way: It is curious how often people assume that 1st person automatically means there’s more intimacy than in 3rd person. Not at all. Thank you for that.
I’ve posted the first chapter of that book as an audio form on this chapter if you didn’t know! Yesss I’ve heard so many people say this haha it’s definitely untrue! Thanks for watching ❤️
Playlist here! czcams.com/play/PLhqx68UFfNEtKFiOHnNDUN9pttVFLazmf.html also I link to the writing updates for this book in every video so there’s more there if you’re interested!
I needed this so much! Usually if I want to write in third person, I just write the whole thing in first and change it to 3rd later lol. Its bad I know, but I find it SO hard not to sound like a machine in 3rd
@@rachelwritesbooks a lot!! I was also wondering, in feeding habits your third person is really really close, is there any specific reason for you to not go with first in this novel?
one thing i will mention is that, while i understand why you say what you do about psychic distance in The Dead, it also feels like a person telling their friend the latest gossip, either concerning someone else's family, or rumors about that family (?) so, it feels distant, but also it feels EXTREMELY close, in terms of judgment or whathaveyou (NOT judgmentalness, i'm not saying the narrator judges any of the characters outright, i'm saying their assessment of the events sounds like something two close friends might be discussing).
ALSO "we just don't know what he's experiencing yet" is SUCH A REVOLUTIONARY THOUGHT, that you can write a whole first paragraph (at least) and not even know what the experience being described EVEN IS. that's.... genius tbh.
@@billyalarie929 this is true about the narrator! We just don’t know them as a character (which is why it does feel distant) - an interesting way to look at POV for sure.
Unrelated question for anyone who has advice: what do I do if all of my rising actions feel like a random series of events that don’t really build upon each other, or lead up to the climax? They feel kind of random, and it makes my MC’s character arc a lot weaker.
I wrote the first 52,000 words of my novel in first person and realized (personally) it was making it clunky and elementary so I decided to switch to 3rd person. It’s basically the definition of oof but I think it’ll work out in the end
Information was great but I was fairly disappointed that the third person examples all came from your own book which is still in the creation phase. Would have much preferred examples from published works
🤷🏽♀️ I get it but I make these videos for free while I’m a full time student. Some people love when I use my own writing as examples, some don’t. I can’t please everyone and frankly I wouldn’t make these videos at all if I ran around trying to make sure everyone was happy with me. These vids are a labour of love of which I profit about 2 bucks on (for ~6-8 hours of work). Also, I’m always qualified to talk about my own work and my own intentions, and so it’s often why I pick excerpts from my own work. In the case of The Dead, I used it as an example because I studied it extensively for a class. Can’t please everyone, and I hope you understand.
TIMESTAMPS:
0:11 - define psychic distance
1:30 - reading and comparing 2 types of third person (distant VS intimate)
4:42 - change your perspective
5:28 - understand the difference between external and internal narration (and how they overlap)
6:41 - the objectivity of POV lies on what the narrator tells/does not tell you
7:15 - but how do I actually write intimate third person?
8:34 - get into the body
9:07 - what is psychic plane?
11:21 - go back to the senses
12:02 - example of when a character is impacted by narrative detail (intimate limited) VS when they are not (distant limited)
RAPID FIRE TIPS
15:19 - watch your passive voice
15:52 - watch your -ing verbs
17:18 - create a language environment
18:19 - cut filters
I truly don't think there is anybody else discussing this type of content regarding actual craft. As much as I love watching videos about how people schedule their writing blocks or who their favorite Avatar: The Last Airbender character is, things like Passive versus active voice and intimacy through point of view is just something that I'm not getting from other content creators. You are an angel of prose bestowing blessings upon us plebians. God bless the algorithm for bringing me to you 😂❤
ahhh this is so so kind!!! thank you! if I may share another creator on here who also does more niche craft content, my pal Shaelin Writes is incredibly talented! if you're looking for more vids like this, their channel is perf!
“The opening feels less like a summary of events and more like someone experiencing something in the moment”
This... changed my life. Thank you so much! I was writing the opening chapter of a fic which felt a lot like a summary even though I intended it to be closer to my POV character.
So I put it aside, started over with “He should really have worn something warmer.” and everything changed! But I couldn’t pinpoint what was different between the two openings.
Anyway, the whole video was extremely informative (especially the part on filters!) so thank you very much!
So thrilled to hear this helped!!
Perfect timing! I’ve been debating on how I want to tell my stories lately, I’m so used to first person but I’m quite fond of third as well.
I feel this! Hope the vid is helpful ❤️
Woah, this has so much information in it I'll have to watch it like three times
❤️❤️❤️
Facts lol such a good vid
YESSS a discussion on third person psychic distance !! 🤍literally am struggling with this in my current WIP 😫
Hope this helps!! ❤️
This subject has been really difficult for me to absorb, so I thank you for sharing this in an eloquent manner. I have a better understanding of it. ❤
This is particularly well-timed for me since I've been thinking about narrative distance and the psychic plane in my own work. I have a particular love for close third; I roleplayed for nearly twenty years and it was my POV of choice because it, in my opinion, could be so intimate while also offering me, as the writer, flexibility and frankly, a safe cognitive distance.
But I just finished the first draft for a piece that is pushed much further back than I'm used to, and it's been interesting working through my own desire for closeness while also recognizing that it wouldn't be appropriate in this instance. Anyways -- cool video, always love hearing what you have to say about craft.
Ahh cool, I totally feel the same way about third providing that safe cognitive distance! Thanks so much for watching ❤️
all spot-on as always. I’ve had to think about this topic a lot since I shifted the POV of my book from third person omniscient to an intimate third person narrated by a character in the book (and often switching into first person) - obviously an enormous leap. that weird mixed pov is HARD to write as well and this video definitely helped me clarify some of my thoughts on it
yay I'm happy to hear!
Thank you, this was extremely helpful. I really appreciate that you gave examples along with your suggestions.
Really happy you found this useful! ❤️
S. A. Soule wrote a wonderful book that covers what you are discussing.
"The Writer's Guide to Character Emotion"
She describes "Deep Point of View" and specific examples for the student of writing.
Well worth a read.
Will check this out!
The part about filters and ing helped me sm !! Thank u for this video
Happy to hear!
Third-person and passive voice always seem to go hand-in-hand with me. Thanks for the actionable advice!
of course!
I love your examples! What's tricky for me is keeping it intimate in present tense; it's hard for me to eliminate -ing words. 😂
Thanks for sharing. This was really helpful as I'm writing a Third Person Limited with multiple viewpoints. I was worried about how to best write the narration between each character. I'm writing the narrator as if it's unique for each character because I would slip into a tone of voice that would match that character. So, the narrator feels very subjective.
For example, one character is a reporter and thinks very analytically, so her narrator has similar analytic qualities. Another character is a mercenary/bounty hunter, so he is gruff and has a superiority complex, and the narrator describes the world around the character like that.
I know a lot of stories stick with maybe 1-3 characters for 3d person multi like this. Since I have it switching between 6 protags and at least 2-3 antags, I hope I can tackle that successfully and not be too confusing to readers.
This video comes at the right time🛐 I'm writing a new book in third person, so this information is great!
Thank youuu❤
❤️❤️❤️
I also had to read Dead by Jaymes Joyce for a class
I will take this video as a sign because I've written a big amount of my book with 1st person POV and sometimes, it feels strained instead of authentic, so I've been thinking of changing the POV. 3rd person comes more naturally to me, even when I try to describe feelings
Amazing. I'm sure I'll watch it 10 times.
This is amazingly helpful!
This was so interesting and informative, especially how you illustrated the difference with the excerpts. I loved the one about Elisa being vegetarian 😊 it made me want to read your book, alas it cannot be! 😃
By the way: It is curious how often people assume that 1st person automatically means there’s more intimacy than in 3rd person. Not at all. Thank you for that.
I’ve posted the first chapter of that book as an audio form on this chapter if you didn’t know! Yesss I’ve heard so many people say this haha it’s definitely untrue! Thanks for watching ❤️
@@rachelwritesbooks Aw where where? I’ve been away from YT for a while! If it’s on here, I’ll find it 😁
Playlist here! czcams.com/play/PLhqx68UFfNEtKFiOHnNDUN9pttVFLazmf.html also I link to the writing updates for this book in every video so there’s more there if you’re interested!
Underrated Chanel!
I needed this so much! Usually if I want to write in third person, I just write the whole thing in first and change it to 3rd later lol. Its bad I know, but I find it SO hard not to sound like a machine in 3rd
I get this!! Hope these tips help ❤️
@@rachelwritesbooks a lot!! I was also wondering, in feeding habits your third person is really really close, is there any specific reason for you to not go with first in this novel?
@@user-yu4rh6zj9x it would’ve been too awkward for a few reasons but mostly because I really didn’t want to get that close to my boys lol!
one thing i will mention is that, while i understand why you say what you do about psychic distance in The Dead, it also feels like a person telling their friend the latest gossip, either concerning someone else's family, or rumors about that family (?)
so, it feels distant, but also it feels EXTREMELY close, in terms of judgment or whathaveyou (NOT judgmentalness, i'm not saying the narrator judges any of the characters outright, i'm saying their assessment of the events sounds like something two close friends might be discussing).
ALSO "we just don't know what he's experiencing yet" is SUCH A REVOLUTIONARY THOUGHT, that you can write a whole first paragraph (at least) and not even know what the experience being described EVEN IS. that's.... genius tbh.
@@billyalarie929 this is true about the narrator! We just don’t know them as a character (which is why it does feel distant) - an interesting way to look at POV for sure.
Superb discussion.
Pronunciation tips: stream of consciousness versus conscious. Also quay is pronounced kee.
‘Cheers
Haha thanks for pointing out quay, yes it’s stream of consciousness, I tend to clip it when speaking!
This was super helpful, thank you !!!
I loooove when you get all nerdy
More nerdy craft vids coming soon!
@@rachelwritesbooks 😍
THANK YOU SO MUCH RACHEL THANK YOU AHHHH THANK YOU
YOU’RE WELCOME!!!!
>sees a new video uploaded by rachel
>CLICKS SO FAST I REVERSE TIME
>feels slight twinge of disappointment this video is only 20 mins long
Unrelated question for anyone who has advice: what do I do if all of my rising actions feel like a random series of events that don’t really build upon each other, or lead up to the climax? They feel kind of random, and it makes my MC’s character arc a lot weaker.
>get into The Body
this is what i'm constantly suggesting to people who want to find heavier bands!
I wrote the first 52,000 words of my novel in first person and realized (personally) it was making it clunky and elementary so I decided to switch to 3rd person. It’s basically the definition of oof but I think it’ll work out in the end
Nice!!
Information was great but I was fairly disappointed that the third person examples all came from your own book which is still in the creation phase. Would have much preferred examples from published works
🤷🏽♀️ I get it but I make these videos for free while I’m a full time student. Some people love when I use my own writing as examples, some don’t. I can’t please everyone and frankly I wouldn’t make these videos at all if I ran around trying to make sure everyone was happy with me. These vids are a labour of love of which I profit about 2 bucks on (for ~6-8 hours of work). Also, I’m always qualified to talk about my own work and my own intentions, and so it’s often why I pick excerpts from my own work. In the case of The Dead, I used it as an example because I studied it extensively for a class. Can’t please everyone, and I hope you understand.
I wrote my Novel and I feel like......
I made a disaster 🙃🙃💔
Lol same!!!
@@rachelwritesbooks
Oh lord
This makes me feel good 🤣🤣💔
Thank you sis 😊❤
@@heresmynovel331 best of luck, we’ve all been there!! ❤️
@@rachelwritesbooks
😊❤