DC Artist Caught TRACING Artwork...And Using AI | Francesco Mattina
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- čas přidán 16. 06. 2024
- This wasn't the first time Francesco Mattina has been exposed for tracing, or at least HEAVILY referencing art from other artists
Original thread: x.com/nebsgoodtakes/status/18...
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I kind of miss the days of Butch Heartman tracing. It was so much easier when people's forgery was more obvious
Now I know who to avoid when buying comics. The biggest reasons why I get comics is 1, my dad loves it. So it’s a nice thing to bond over and 2, the art. And no way I’m gonna buy art from an artists who steals and uses ai when they have the ability to draw in their own. Dude is a disgrace to comic book artists. And just artists in general.
Avoid DC, Marvel, and anything associated with Hasbro at this point
@@RobertStoll ehh until there’s proof they all do this with ALL their artwork, im still gonna get it. I will not go based off assumptions, rather evidence.
@@JelliesStar are you new to comics? cover artists have been stealing and tracing since the dawn of time. you guys only get offended when somebody tells you to do so
Shame we have to worry about this even with comics now 😔
@@solarydays proof... ?
the guy traces the weirdest thing also why recreating the most useless details of the artwork like the shape of the amunition and floating teeth this is so weird
Tracing AND using Ai, that’s a double jeopardy of shitty image creation.
before ai, these quickie artist were kit bashing, which is also a big no no for a finish product/image .... but okay when you're brainstorming or concepting stage of the process. that what he use to do when he was doing covers for Marvel, the war machine covers are the ones in question.
What’s wrong with this i don’t understand it’s just using it as reference
@@knessing7681 If you need Ai to brainstorm, you don't have much of a brain to imagine a creative beautiful piece of artwork, and have no business being an artist, unless you come up with a completely crazy piece that you need an Ai to help you create the concept for the artwork.
@@invisibl3. did u rly watch the whole video and still comment this
Reminds me of speedrunners who can play the game well but opt for cheating.
no literally!! just why do they do that 😭
@@katlientein speedrunning it's because of the competition. Glory is achieved by getting milestones and records, and that only comes legitimately after a lot of time and practice. Often times there are rivalries, status, and cash prizes on the line. So all in all those who can, but can only get so close, can use their knowledge to "get" those milestones "first."
Just like in art you get content farmers. In speedrunning, for example, Dream consistently needs to put out content, at a pace that is often unattainable. Which is why they feel the need to cut corners
speedrunning is very different thing though. it can take massive amounts of skill and knowledge to execute glitches, bugs or exploits in some games. it takes dedication, sometimes thousands of hours to perfect a run for a game youve been running. it takes knowledge and theory crafting to figure out the most optimal route to the end.
there are also different categories, like any% which basically means "any means necessary to finish game", there are glitchless runs and 100% completion speedruns. there are all different kinds of speedruns for basically every game out there. with speedrunning; it's not about finishing the game once the fastest way possible. if it was, it would be so much more easier for people who speedrun to just play the games once and never again. instead speedrunners usually spent dozens if not hundreds of hours on a game they are running. it's usually a way for people who enjoy the game after completing it. push the game to it's limits and see what is possible for either human limits or the limits of the game code. it's fascinating. you dont have to understand it, but that's the way with people. we like different things.
and anyway, there are cheaters in speedrunning spheres as well. like pre-recording a run and pretending to have done it live. using TAS(tool assisted speedrun) tools. or editing together a fake or splintered run. using mods. other such things which are not tolerated.
if you want to think about it, it is all a kind of e-sport(though i dont think the word fits really). it is not for everyone, and there are different reasons why different people like it.
sorry, this got away from me. not everyone knows as much about speedruning as people i talk to usually, so i can see why people would see it the way you do. but just, it sounds so rude me to compare speedrunners to cheaters? emotional response to something that is important to me, but that doesnt affect me. sorry about this
@@viiranendifferent in the sense it is a competition, yes.
However the time element and skill element aren't that much different
@@viiraneni don’t think they were trying to compare speedrunners to cheaters. the point they were trying to make was that skilled people can still cheat their way into doing something, whether it’s artists who can draw but still use ai or speedrunners who can execute frame-perfect exploits but still splice their runs.
leaving the superman S messed up like that is audacious 🤣
Learning how to draw in decades then proceed to trace 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Picasso said something about great artists outright stealing... He would know....
i guess work smarter not harder😂
Pst, ill let you in on a secret: comics artists are constantly tracing and copying older works, and they were doing it this whole time)
@@PTHYTQV lol that's why some of the art work just feels the same 🤭
@@KAZUUUUMOM motto of comix industry was formulated by Wally Wood a long time ago: "Never draw anything you can copy, never copy anything you can trace, never trace anything you can cut out and paste up."
It was always about speed and efficiency.
Honestly, I think a really good response to people trying to counter your dislike of AI would be to say that the machine's "mistakes" are, unless you fed your own artwork into the machine and had it only use that, just another thing that has been stolen from an actual person's work.
Meaning that not only did the people who made the machine steal people's good artwork, they also stole those people's mistakes. Part of their identity. There is so much wrong with AI art generation, and that's just one part of it: the process itself steals people's whole artistic identity, even their human error.
Sadly people will justify that most are dead or they have millions of views or it isn't original to begin with.
Now this is unethical tracing at it's worst... I guess we can now freely use the comic book covers on our own because ai can't be copyrighted...
while true. the thing is AI use copyrighted art which means all "art" it spits belongs to the unfortunate artists whos work ended up being eaten by the AI
I was once accused of using AI for drawing the thing where tie goes under bending in the wrong direction. LIKE THAT'S A THING AI WOULD EVEN DO, flame me for eyes being different, since i forgot to do bottom highlight in one eye that i did in other in pinkish color. It's something i insta spotted myself after looking at it after a break from looking at it, as many more things i could have done better tbh xd
I feel like what sucks the most ass about ALL OF THIS...
DC knows. There are people that work that that approve this and will look the other way just to sell covers. Just to sell issues. Integrity < Profit. Who knows how much he's even paid at that. He could be paid much cheaper than someone that actually makes art at this level. This guy is hired time and time and time again because they know the mass public is HIGHLY ignorant of art and detail. They just see "damn this looks amaaaazing". It'll take them at least 30 looks at it to notice anything wrong with it.
Dude, comics industry was always a low pay job for artist. Tracing and copying are widely used there.
If there’s actually Anybody who says the first is a “coincidence” unironically then they are basically lying to themselves
is less about the mistake and more about the logic behind it
Reminds me
I despise when artists use AI
AI is stealing from US and you, as an artist
Is USING IT???? SERIOUSLY???
Not only that, you got talent too, JUST WHY
I despise when anyone does.
Not even using their own work
Damn, does Francesco Mattina have a personal vendetta against people who work at Sideshow Collectibles? Aw, did this wittle ‘artist’ didn’t get into Sideshow Collectibles or did one of them just said he was stinky? [ this comment is sarcastic btw. ]
kat, we already know at this point you make fun of ai images not human artists. the people who say otherwise are haters.
i have to say it bc not everyone has seen my other videos 😅
@@katliente true. I watched only your most recent videos and i got the message.
If people stilk like you're hating on beginner artist ; it just weird.
Straight up! Anyone who doesn’t have the ability to recognize Kat’s nuance when she talks about the abuse of AI Art is someone choosing to be deliberately dishonest & disingenuous.
Another side note for the Batman with a gun, the guns are exactly the same, it’s just the butt of the gun has more detail. Not to mention both Batman and Punisher have the same pistol on the left thigh
I’ve noticed that as well.
This man uses sooo many other pieces. He's basically a copy-paste of great creatives who dont know he's latched on and leeching off em.
Once upon a time getting a job in comic books took talent and editors did there job and where competent.
What I don't get is, with all the widely posable action figures available out there, I'm surprised that there are still "professionals" who'd rather trace someone's artwork to achieve the desired poses instead of using a pose model. Also, if there's one good thing I learned from this fiasco, it is how Sideshow Collectibles have all the talented artists and gorgeous art and sculpt works.
I study at a company and I was shocked to keep getting told that in the corperate world, they just dont have the time.
Its a race against time and when making covers and posters etc they take existing elements etc etc and use AI.
You dont get to take forever when working for clients etc
especially after covid times; gotta speed up processes to recoup from the losses of back then, and losses of some customers no longer able to afford
So they make a worse product to cash in on what was supposedly lost, and when they catch up to that invisible red line of profit once missed they will continue to produce AI and traced works because they've already normalised pushing out a low effort product for the price of what actual, human-made art should be? Lame.
You clearly never had much interest in the workings of a comics industry). It was the race against time from the very beginning. Basically the industry artists motto was formulated by legendary Wally Wood: "Never draw anything you can copy, never copy anything you can trace, never trace anything you can cut out and paste up."
@PTHYTQV when did I ever say I agreed with what I was told? I stated that they keep drilling this shit onto us. People IN THIS FIELD... yikes 👀
0 respect for anyone calling themselves an artist using AI and tracing other people's work.
If you are against tracing, you can confidently dismiss the whole comics industry, including all the top names there. It was always as Wally Wood formulated: "Never draw anything you can copy, never copy anything you can trace, never trace anything you can cut out and paste up."
Comics is a low paid job, and to live of it you need to produce a LOT, and FAST.
Litterally not a big deal
@invisibl3. You're not doing the work with either. It's lazy and stealing other's work.
And the more people use AI in the art industry, the more they give companies reason to replace real artists.
@@heavy5013 I don’t think AI will ever stop creating art at this point. Also isn’t using images that people made like references. The person who take those images use it but still create their own art and draw it themselves.
@invisibl3. There's a difference between a reference and tracing.
And using AI to create work isn't the individual creating the work.
The more people use and feed AI the more they give companies a reason to stop hiring real artists.
DC announced today (6/23) that they're severing ties with Mattina.
When I saw how f-ed up the Batman logo is I was like “I can draw that better and I’m not that good of an artist to begin with.”.
I have a complicated story with references. To me are fine AS LONG AS:
A-You cite them.
B- Make them distinct enough. (Have a similiar background but different details to make it unique like how Star Wars referenced Days of Future Past Cover or All Hail Megatron did with Spider Man No More.
C- Be upfront about it. Tweet about it. "Hey guys in the next cover we are paying homage to *BLANK*"
I stopped buying variant covers mainly because tracking them is a pain and sometimes expensive. But I'll definately be on the look out for this guy so I dont end up supporting him.
Thnx Kat.
I love watching your videos sm 😭
awwwh that means so much 🥹
I’m an art director at an agency and AI has become a necessary evil unfortunately. Surprised this guy hasn’t gone the route of rending ai art to then trace vs what we are seeing here. I’m eating popcorn though.
How does your agency use ai? Did they fire artists and tell the rest to use ai to speed up? A guess, because it's a story I hear all too often these days.
"necessary evil "?
How is it in ANY sense necessary to begin with?
How did you guys succeed before AI art if you can't cope without it now?
Because it speeds up a lot of the process. And if your competitor starts using it, you're gonna get left behind unless you also integrate it into your process. @@darkzeroprojects4245
necessary evil my ass. have shame
Those people don't care because it's not their art being traced by him...
stealing art is not new to the industry as "Renaissance Artists" had done these centuries ago. Even Pablo Picasso stated that "art is theft"..unfortunately, the history of the industry was not always "morally uncontaminated"..
Just an FYI 3:30 thats not the magazine thats the Sling of the gun, he didnt even draw a mag thats obscurred.
In addition in the art of 3:30 you can also see the Hand of Batman seems to have more than 5 fingers xD the Hand is way to thick (seems like AI was used)
I hope Rito gets this guy in a lawsuit or something ^^
I love how she attacks ai art I just subscribed
i love these videos kat !!
For beginning artest, I would like to specify that tracing figures is OKAY to learn anatomy and make your figures look more realistic. Tracing other peoples art is a different matter. You can find free images online of people posing for your reference.
i love your hairrr omg
hehe tyy!! :D
companies don't care if there artist are using AI or tracing because the companies themselves are taking shortcuts.. Using AI themselves..etc. As long as the artwork looks amazing. Which by me looking at it. It does. People will buy them. Morals or where the art comes from don't matter to the consumer. If it matter... people wouldn't be buying brand shoes and clothes. Since we know they are made under slave wages and child worker etc from other countries. I sucks but suck it up. This is the industry.
dissapointing as heck
Francesco Matina is a well known art swiper in the comic industry so I'm not surprised that he used AI.
Thanks for informing us!! I also hate the arbitrary lighting behind Superman with the nonsensical lens flares. "Human artist place everything there with intention." -Katliente, -Jojo
One of the many reasons most people aren't buying comics from the big two.
good video
It scares and depresses what is happening with art and AI
This is paid painfully common and DC has turned the blind eye to it for decades
A double whammy of art theft. All we need is them tracing it from fanart and not already existing art and we’d have a bingo!
This is common in the comic book industry, especially with Marvel and DC.
It’s very comical how often and blatant they are too.
The most discouraging thing about this type of theft is how little most non-artists seem take this seriously. I've seen threads full of (non-artists) complaining that "art theft isn't a thing" and telling the artist that they should be "flattered" that people "like their art enough to copy it." Honestly it's absolutely infuriating. And this case is especially confusing considering the fact that this guy apparently has the talent to just draw this stuff himself. That suggests that he is literally JUST being lazy.
i can only assume DC comics couldnt careless because the artist can churn out work faster than if they didnt use AI/tracing its only a matter of time till they use the AI for their comics like just do sketches and shove it into AI to finish the rest and someone to clean up and add text
I've seen several professional artists who have talked about AI art programs making it much faster for them to complete their work.
I'm not against AI if it can make your work easier and let you skip the boring parts.
I'm against it when more than half of the work is AI because you have to be as fast as possible in order to be able to eat.
Let's not overwork artists, art can be a wonderful and fulfilling thing, let's not make it boring for everyone involved.
@@kat4923 Generating images is harming the planet and causing droughts in small countries. These artists should buck up and quit relying on theft to do the work for them. Because regardless of what an AI image model claims, it's all unethical due to stealing from other artists. Not to mention it creates more work if they have to go in and fix errors than if they just finished it themselves.
The gift keeps on giving xD
Seeing this should emboldened us as artists work technical skills and multiple mediums. As well as work on projects that we support and pay well, because they more the ai bros depend on ai, the more it becomes a crutch for them. Also imagine what happens if there's system collapse on midjourney imagine what the "ai artist" will do against someone has knowledge and skills.
Wait up tracing is like tracing off a screen or copying the pose of a reference?
mmm. Is this different than the practice the comic industry has done since the 70's were they would purchase pose templates and reuse. which results in a lot of comics having the same exact pose being used? Its just that I had seen a lot of videos on this years ago way before all this ai stuff.
The difference for me is the fact that they bought those materials for that purpose, and used it as a reference multiple times. The difference between that and tracing is that the artist did not consent to have their work copied and are not receiving compensation for their time and effort.
Many of those artists never even purchased the rights to use some of their references, so it's kinda similar in my opinion.
I also think there's a difference between tracing for reference and guideline purposes, and copy-paste tracing. I think it's ridiculous to copyright basic and natural shapes that are common in nature. For instance if somebody isn't good at drawing outlines and they use an image of a horse to get the basic shape and outline of a horse, but create a completely different expression/image than the reference image. there's nothing wrong with that in my opinion.
I also find it a bit comical given the fact that most of the well known and respected artists actually trace sometimes, but people pretend like it's some abomination or taboo to trace. tracing is only bad if you're copy-pasting the entire concept and image.
There’s no fun in tracing to me I’ve sucked at art for a year and finally making improvements and it feels better to actually develop the skill of art instead of cheating your way through it and then u end up exposed like this guy 😭💀
So what people cant use references anymore? If I draw an image with the same pose as someone else art I’m not allowed to? Art tracing is a term just to say you can’t use references or anything
At 3:07 ，I think he only imitate the posture of holding a gun. But he did not just copy from the original artist ，the lighting ，shape ，form and background of his art work are created by himself. I think there is a difference between imitating and stealing which at 3:25 he only use the posture as an reference but at 5:59 ，he is literally copying the flowing teeth and broken jaw from others which is unforgivable.
In general， humans learn by imitate other so that the can understand it and creates something similar their own .However ，making money by purely copying is another thing.
Just a minor thing, but that isn't a magazine in the Punisher/Batman images, it's just the strap of a rifle sling with a texture to it. Which makes it more suspicious of course because a sling on a rifle isn't going to be in that exact position with that exact texture if you're just using the generic pose. It's at the least used for direct reference which is odd when there's tons of photos of people with rifles all over the place, like why bother with something from your same field instead of anything else? Not that hard to make some new lines with actual reference material.
Todd McFarland had a contest and he noticed and also he expressed that the art is not AI ect that is use for contest covers for contest win.
I love this video but I have one singular gripe, at roughly around 3:12 you called the sling a magazine, my gun nut heart shattered a little
That wasn't a magazine, it was the strap of the gun.
Clients never pay for the actual time it takes to make a original creative image. Pros, cutting corners because it equals more time with family. Believe me when I say that the client ALWAYS choose the alternative that cost them less money.
I didn’t even think comics hired just pin up artists anymore. Generally you have to be able to draw comics. What did this guy do before?
Not surprised by DC. Comics don’t pay their artists well, they want it fast and cheap. And this is the result.
Tracing is crazy lazy as a professional artist who works at DC comics but the use of AI should be labeled as criminally lazy
if its just the pose than its okay, to save up time, since tracing outline of poses is something that everyone did and does including the greatest art masters. so its not bad tracing or stealing since poses\ anatomy shape does not belong to anyone
First Greg Land (Who got famous for tracing porn and has been dunked on by other former comic artists, and has multiple cases of plagiarism levied against him), and now another one... I knew that things sucked majorly at DC, but hearing news about the constant layoffs, the bitching that people won't read their poorly written comics, the pointing of fingers at people for not liking their changes to comic book characters (that are just lazy to begin with), this is making them look EVEN WORSE and they constantly refuse to take the L despite them doing so badly. It's a wonder these companies are even afloat.
It's not like DC care. As long as the money rolls in, it's all good with them. He'll only be a problem when he starts hurting their bottom line. That is standard corporate procedure nowadays.
It's just corpo greed, the guy was commission to do a batman cover by batman comi's parent company DC, he trace a batman by another artiest, IF that artiest react then the CD company will also react. The big question is WHO OWN'S BATMAN? What if DC said "take anyone's art as long as it's under ours". Ai will sooner or later will take up everything, from comics to movies.
Damn why do copycats are so sloppy? He didn’t even try to hide it
Good informative video, though calling the guns sling a magazine made me die a little inside
I know this guy, I know for a fact he traces, aside from batman fans, I stopped reading most comics because of him, sooner or later, people are gonna get tired and sick of it, then that'll put a nail in the coffin for an already dying, barely living, industry.
Oh... Oh no...
9:04
Someone who actually cared about Superman wouldn’t draw him like this, so menacing and similar to Injustice Superman. AI just just took the popular Injustice art as well as the more gritty films like BvS, which goes against everything Superman embodies: hope, humanity, optimism.
Look at Dan Mora’s World Finest covers. Look at Superman: Red and Blue #5. Those have so much care and love for the characters and focus on what he is instead of just having a cool aesthetically pleasing but soulless piece made just to get paid.
before this ai stuff, alot of his cover work when he was at marvel he tend to what you call Kit Bash ... he was kit bashing in photoshop. Now with ai stuff is much easier, tell it to generate something and then trace over it and call it yours. Greg Land another marvel guy loves to trace, and recycle his old drawings and he's still getting gigs at marvel.
Genuine question tho, isn't it rather dangerous for DC to still use "his work" (which is traced / made by AI) cuz they might get sued for that
As an artist I will gladly work for AI and help it sample myself and other artists as well.
Look at the shoulder of Bats left shoulder, its the same angle as Punisher. thats pretty close also.
That definitely used the original works. I dont trace or borrow other people’s work, BUT in the comic book industry, tracing was a main tactic for poses and layouts, it is/was done in Superman, Batman, and Marvel comics, artists used each other’s works and traced them, they didn’t just take the original works though. Tracing and editing is actually taught in “how to draw” comic book books. Maybe something changed since the last time I had a “how to draw” book.
What he’s done isn’t tracing, it looks like he literally just took the works and edited it without tracing. That Phoenix image looks exactly like the original just edited.
Food Service: You're 8 minutes late to work three times, you're fired.
Retail: You accidentally accepted a $1 tip from a customer, you're fired.
Warehouse: You leaned a pallet up or blocked a fire extinguisher that we don't even authorize you to use anyways, you're fired.
This guy: You repeatedly steal work and cheat at your job? Hm. We'll see if the backlash impacts sales.
1:10 WHAT piece!!?
Can we get mucho higher
Why couldn't he just alter it? Like get inspired by art and create new one out of it. Not just trace the whole figure. Alter and mash it up. That would be totally valid. But just blatantly copying something and taking a good paycheck for it is lazy and destroys the industry of actual honest and talented artists.
Another good way to tell if an artist is using AI is whether their characters have consistent features. I feel like every image of Batman this dude “makes” is visually similar in the way it is “painted” but very not the same in the actual character design. Look at Lee Bermejo’s Batman that has developed on a pretty straight trajectory since 2005. Then this guy’s, who looks different in every image.
im an art student and yeah we are forced to take pic of ourself to study pose and gesture
I love Artist that takes time to improve there skills ..real craft peoples i love you .To fake or steal art at a professional level is disgusting ..art thievery is disgusting
"Kalki" a bollywood movie stole the art of sung choi and literally used it in a movie
Still believe that AI is here to help not harm. But should be asking artists if the AI can use their art to study. AI is a tool.
him using a.i is what ever. it's a tool just like photo bashing. you can either join it or move out the way and get crushed by it.
I've never bought their stuff, I'll just keep doing what I'm doing
Greg Land: Finally! a worthy opponent, our battle will be legendary
I see nothing wrong with tracing as long as it’s transformative enough; AI on the other hand I’m against, because of the larger implications of what it means for not just are but all media further down the line.
I remember the first time this discourse dropped and as a long time comics fan being like "ah shit if this goes badly DC might just make comics with AI" anyway please support legitimate comics artists who work on up to 100 pages of amazing art a month
If this was a woman artist stealing work, she would be crucified. Guys have always had people defending them no matter what they do.
This is nothing new for partial tracing of people art in DC or Marvel hapening… the ai using however is very sad part….
The S at the superman "drawing" reminded me a bit of skrek
Bro, youre a professional artist, you dont need to steal other's work, you CAN do it yourself. I just dont understand how insecure you should be to not believe that you can produce high quality art by yourself when you literally work for DC
13:12 Unfortunately AI is here to stay. The gaming industry has already accepted it when it comes to concept art. You can also train AI on your OWN artstyle to speed up your work flow. Its here to stay...it is what it is🙃
Damn, this guy is a serial tracer
This is just my opinion but I've seen A lot of people who can draw in detail from a piece as REFERENCE, so i think that he has just heavily referenced everything
reminds me of arthur suydam
Why’s there a Marvel character in the thumbnail?
On the Superman cover, I noticed the cape looked like it was generated by AI. No intermediate level artist would paint such a nonsensical and poorly draped cloth.
Dc probably saw Greg Land and went HMMMMM
We got Greg Land 2.0 before GTA6
Also you can tell it is AI because superman's left hand is holding a not safe body part.