Intercooler Vs. Methanol-Engine Masters Preview Ep. 45
Vložit
- čas přidán 25. 08. 2024
- Watch the full episode exclusively with MotorTrend Premium! bit.ly/2vqBWwp
Check out this Preview of Engine Masters, Episode 45 as David Freiburger, Steve Dulcich, and special guest Richard Holdener visit the science of reducing temperature out of a turbo in order to increase power.
Why not both? Stack your hand for the best possible scenario. Obviously it will take a lot of fuel mapping and turbo boost will need to be adjusted, but it doesn’t have to be a “one vs the other”.
We have to pay for engine masters too now? I miss free roadkill on CZcams...
I use to watch that when I was in school😥
Man stop being a tightwad motor trend on demand is worth it you pay like 50 bucks for a whole year and there are so many shows you get to watch. I am going on my second year soon and I think it's worth it you get so many awesome shows ad free and all for 50 bucks and I don't make a killing right now but still can afford 50 bucks a year that's less than 4 dollars a month. Tell me you can't afford 3.75 a month or so?
@@79tazman YOU think it’s worth it, doesn’t mean you’re correct.
Don't have time do anything, except die......
I will never pay for motor trend so I will never see engine masters again. Sad day for the people.
Methanol has way more potential than an intercooler. You can adjust the timing higher during boost due to the increase in octane. My car is turbod, and has a front mount intercooler. I added methanol injection to my car, tuned another 50hp from it.
using methanol and keeping the same timing is a waste of fuel.
This is correct. Adding moisture to the intake charge almost requires additional ignition advance to better complete the combustion. So this is not an ideal test
I agree. Increase that timing. Apples to apples comparison intercooler vs water/ meth. The water/ meth has always come out on top in the cars I've come across.
@@Rhett.Castillo I would agree if they added water/methanol to the already intercooled setup. Remember they are able to run water/meth with no intercooler and keep the same ignition timing and the same boost. That's not bad! I personally run a time attack car where weight off the nose was more important than power as it was easy to make 1000 whp without the intercooler using race gas and water/meth.
@1olddogetruck Yeah you need about +2 degrees just to break even for most of boosted 4 cylinder engines I tuned.
@1olddogetruck Any chance you have seen the limits of the injection? Could you run N/A timing figures or even that is asking too much?
I did the free MT offer for one month and realized pretty quickly that even for a few bucks after the trial period was over that it wasn’t worth paying for it. Really, the only good show to me was engine masters and I don’t believe there were any new programs added since early 2019. Most of the other shows were re-broadcast of shows that were on the MT cable network. Kind of sad, really.
Come on guys. Add some timing with the Meth and then talk about it.
heat kills power. Great episode!
Ayyyyeeee...Richard Holdner!
Oh, hey. Just what I wanted to watch. Another preview I quickly clicked on because it sounded cool without realizing it's just a preview. I'M SO FREAKING HAPPY.
Basically the result was intercooler wins. Methanol/H2O injection doesn’t work on ls style intakes due to distribution issues.
@@thebigpicture2032 Saved me time. Thanks.
Ye i wont ever support MTOD because of how they murdered their biggest shows as a way to try to force millions of free viewers into a paid subscription method. They could have came up with original show ideas/behind the scenes type stuff etc imo.
@@rsproductions5 You'd think they could pay for it through ad revenue, like commercials, etc. rather than doing these previews and then trying to get people into a subscription. I doubt MotorTrend intended on it, but it seems like to some people to be "bait and switch" or clickbait to post video's like these and not catch right away that it's just a preview, which is pretty disappointing given they do good work on interesting topics.
The Big Picture how much of a improvement was the meth over nothing at all?
There is a difference also because the intercooler is going to drop a pound or two across it. With much finer spray patterns and higher boost reference meth pump. One other factor is that meth burns slower so more advance is needed to compensate. There are a lot of factors that people don't realize when comparing the two. In theory the water meth should make more power than the intercooler at the same air temp. Increasing the meth percentage will make it evaporate quicker as an easier fix. But water pulls 25x more heat out because it requires 25 times more btus than meth. The system needs higher pressures and pulsed injection with ultra fine spray patterns. It could be done with a complete system with return line and regulator with the ecu controlling injection from a regular fuel injector. That's probably the only way to make it effective across the board. Ima build it now
So you're saying that the tune is the difference? You need to tune it correctly for a meth setup?
@@dominionn09 The spray pattern of the meth. The tune also has to change.
The reason power went down is because you adjusted the A/F ratio to compensate for the incoming methanol. Methanol itself is less dense in energy than gasoline because of it tiny molecular carbon structure. Simple chemistry fellas.
Why not both?
There is too much free stuff on youtube to let them bait and switch me. I will not pay for motortrend.
click on the link takes you to the free episode. close the advertisement at the top right.
hoonigan is doing well at replacing all their offerings
No one cares
He said timing is the same... That's the problem lmfao
Here it is Richard. Let's make some noise!!!!!
Water-Methanol Direct Port 8 Cyl Upgrade Quick-Connect (Nozzles Not Included)
At $3usd a gallon for methanol, just run it straight, crank up the timing, and ask yourself why you spend all that money on NOS
Steve looking really young these days ha
I think Just like with ethanol, you need a little more timing everywhere to make the same power and run good, but you can also run even more timing to make more power because of the octane .
Alcohol is a Lower btu fuel.
ding ding win. also water slows burn, timing needs advanced for that too.
Thats really why we did meth injection so we could boost timing without detonation so if you arent tuning it with meth your not doing anything.
You guys are very useful to us ole shade tree mechanics!
Water slows the burn. Advance the timing.
They are too slow to understand this ;-)
I would've like to have seen a couple more tests in 2° increments on the meth down lower in the rpm range..
@@twinturbocoyoteftw it would have come back.....
They said the air/fuel ratio was the same on both runs (2:48). Shouldn’t it be way richer if you running a high ratio of methanol? I’ve read 6.5:1 to 4:1 for straight methanol. That could be where the power went.
100%. Methanol fueled engines need to run richer, and timing/boost should be added to take advantage for the extra octane gained
That works very differently with turboprop or jet engines, they love water/meth to add power. Here's a video I took in one of the heaps of junk I used to fly ten years ago. You can hear the water/meth come on and the engines make more power at around the 2:06 mark. On one of the Metroliners I used to fly, the engineers had the water/meth pumps cranked-up a lot and when I'd hit the switch the torque would go from about 800 lb-ft up to about 1500 lb-ft without touching the throttles. A little tweak on the throttles to get the torque up to the red-line of 2200 lb-ft and away it'd go.
czcams.com/video/5n0HpU7xTHM/video.html
Where is Steve it's not engine masters without him
Engine set up for engine dyno is incredible.
I would like to see a practical comparison of intake manifolds on a sbc (400hpish), including an old school tunnel ram setup. I think a tunnel ram would look cool, but I don't think it would be practical.
Do an episode on a cast head, home ported head and professional ported one.
That'd be a good one for sure I gasket matched and ported Vortec heads for my old 4.3 and feel like i did a dang good job but I never dynod it...
Any plans for a Jeep 4.0L build on Roadkill, Engine Masters, or Hot Rod Garage? I would love to see you test the limits of a stock 4.0L to see how much boost it can handle. Or maybe a 4.0L 2wd Jeep XJ or YJ drag car build for Roadkill or Hot Rod Garage.
Us diesel guys use both
Love the vid!!!
It would be nice to watch this whole Ep, but unless you post the whole Ep. on CZcams I will never see the Whole Show.
This episode will be free to watch in 8 weeks on Motor Trend's website, or mobile app. (For residents of the US, as well as some other countries) Episode 43 is free to watch now.
DAVE,
You know an engine is running good when you wind it up to redline, it sucks
all the air out of the dyno cell & everyone in the room passes out.
!
Why not Water + Intercooler?
well, if you run the same air fuel, with meth on top of gas, and you aren't talking in lambda, then you are running lean, it takes more fuel than normal when running methanol, ethanol, or any other alcohol. so it shouldn't be running the same air fuel.
what would happen if you ran the water/methanol in conjunction with the intercooler
you have a good time. I dont know any one who uses meth injection as a substitute for an intercooler. I have run meth kits for decades and I always ran them in conjunction with an intercooler.
What about a stock tpi 350 with intercooler worried about stock rings and pistons
why did they get rid of the old road kill that was my favorite show
They didn't get rid of it. They just moved it to their own website, where they can get more money for it. If you live in the US, (or some other countries) you can still watch the 3rd latest episode for free every 4 weeks on Motor Trend's website, or mobile app. Episode 90 will be free to watch for another week and a half, then episode 91 will be free. (Unfortunately, you won't be able to watch the back log of episodes that you missed, unless you're willing to pay $5)
Anyone have any idea what size motor we are dealing with here?
If "my friend" ran an wot run on a open race track. In the best practice, How long should the driver keep driving to cooldown the engine before shutdown?!
These guys never used mathematics and phsics to predict the outcome.
I wonder why that is?
Oh my god thought Brule had cancer for a second
Test Water/Meth w and w/o an Air 2 Air intercooler like is real world on most street turbo cars. Adding a small w/m shot on an already intercooled a2a car will bring the temp down another 30-70 deg and makes it safer for 93 octane cars running on the street. LS, Turbo and W/M the world. And I'm a Ford guy lol.
miss you
Obviously timing..
So it the tax day hair cut for Steve Dulcich then.
Rob Lowe on the dyno
I'm only first comment because no one like motortrend anymore.. sad day.
@Braiden Markwick I'm here as well.. enjoying the previews and trailers for the full episodes
why did torque get so low on water/methanol
only 4 min videos now? FU MT
Methanol is less energy dense than longer hydrocarbons
Why mute comments on the RCF track edition video? Embarrassed about getting beat by a Miata, sti and a stinger which cost less than 1/3 the price of POS RCF track edition???
@MOTORTREND *help,* the unlocked "Heat kills power" episode *won't play* on motor trend on demand
...at least not on my apple laptop
Edit: nothing at all was playing last I checked, and I even turned off my ad blocker
Plays just fine for me. Try clearing your browser data, or using a different browser.
@@MellowYe77ow It's now the next day, and I'm on a windows laptop, and now it's working... I'll try the mac later today; if it works there too, they fixed it on their end.
Edit: heyy we can manually adjust quality now!
Edit2: nope, after reloading the page it worked...it was probably som maintinence/updating
Try ethanol instead of methanol, higher energy per molecule
Where is Grumpy ? Did he retire? Or did you fire him for bad attitude? Mystery....
2 nozzles for a V8? Not sure you have this optimized properly for a V8
Wow!
Where is Steve?
And Dulcich
Steve lost 30 years
Why even bother when you always run 116 race gas, A waste of time.
is that Jeffrey Coombs?
Queremos Subtitulos en español :(
I used to love watching engine masters. Now this Motor trend bullshit. Go back to your roots.
So... meth is bad for you. Who'da thunk it?
Wow
Não a mais vídeos adorovos mais p
guys, Meth injection PRE turbo is the way to go.
Theodosius
Ah prro , traes el Omnitrix
To bad no one watches the show no more. Sold out to popular tv.
No one runs meth-injection without an intercooler! This is the worst meth-injection setup I've ever seen. WTF are you people doing?
Not true. Many people run meth to lower IAT's because they *don't* have an intercooler.
@@ashemoski if you are running an NA application only. You can boost the octane and lower IAT's with methanol, but few people do that. It's almost exclusively used for boosted applications. Regardless, for BOOSTED purposes, no one is running WITHOUT an intercooler. It would be idiotic. Methanol does not take the place of an intercooler. Plus, the nozzle setup here is far from ideal!
@@SpencerTaylorOnline lots of race cars run no intercooler, some people simply have no room for one.
@@madboost35 not on a race car they don't. And by a race car, I don't mean drag racing. If it doesn't have turns, it's not racing. I'm on track for 25-60 plus minutes at a time. Without an intercooler, my engine would fry in minutes.
@@SpencerTaylorOnline youre obviously ignorant ....
It’s not just the intake manifold. Running water with methanol loses power vs pure methanol. Water can over cool the cylinders or slow down burn and lose burning efficiency.
Then add timing. There's 0 reason with a competent tuner you would ever lose power with methanol injection
July 18th, 2019 is a date of the new Generationn of Chevy Corvette.
Don't miss it
Ew get rid of the bald guy asap
(Edited) he is smart though. Smh
Kangaroo teeth keep advancing and falling out Roos then starve to death. So too will it be for the prick tease.
How to lose subscribers... make them pay...
Who cares? Freeloaders aren’t paying for the content.
JewTrend........your greed killed your reputation, again.
Therd
Motor Trend are jerks! Get to the good stuff and then stop it asking for money. You should say that at the outset. I used to love this show. I will avoid giving you a "watch count" in the future.
It does say "Preview" in the title, and the video is less than 5 minutes long, so it's rather obvious this isn't the full episode.
@@ashemoski that is true. So? Someone suggested I unsubscribe to videos. Already done.
Why not both?