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Setting up PRORES RAW on the a7siii and Ninja V (and monitoring for exposure)
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- čas přidán 5. 08. 2024
- In this video I'll walk you through how to set up the Sony a7siii and Atomos Ninja V to record prores raw. I'll also show you how I have the Ninja V set up to monitor my image for exposure.
0:00 Intro
0:40 Setting up your a7siii
3:31 Exposure on the Ninja V
7:20 Closing Thoughts
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This was awesome. Looking forward to the next video.
Thanks
Boom! Setting the Ninja to PQ mode while recording S-Gamut3.Cine/S-Log3, what a great tip Riley! Very useful and helpful tutorial. Thanks for taking the time to make this video.
Absolutely! Thanks for watching! I’m glad it was helpful!
This was really helpful, thanks a lot for sharing ✌️
Thank you so much for share this information, Riley. It’s much appreciate
You’re welcome! 😁
Boom!!!! Mind Blown, Thanks Riley... Subscribed!
Thanks for the tip about PQ displaying the full 1000nits. Great work mate.
No problem! Thanks Andy!
why is my PQ mode cannot be sellected ? sorry for bad english, im from indonesia
Love your tuts always...looking forward to more tutorials on A7siii from you
Thanks! I appreciate it!
I'm enjoying your A7Siii coverage.
I found this video yesterday morning when looking for better understandings of how the my 7Siii and Ninja V can work together... got a surprise request to record 8 dance recital shows this weekend and wanted to use the 7Siii obviously (got the 7Siii Wednesday evening).
Big thanks for this! Appreciate the time you put into this!
Of course! Thanks for stopping by 😁
Thanks for the video
Hey man! I'm loving your vids. I have the same setup as you and am learning how to shoot ProRes RAW. Thanks for the info. Much appreciated 🙏
Thanks Jordan!! Happy to help! 😁
Thank you very much, the PQ is amazing!!
You're welcome!
This is exactly what I needed! Thanks man
Happy to help! 😃
@@RileyEndicott (subscribed, good luck)
@@JoseTheRover Thanks! I appreciate it!
thank you for the video,liked n subscribed
Thanks!
Thanks for this! Subscribed!
Of course! Thanks Alex I appreciate it!
Great content!
Thanks Trey!
Nice content
Very useful video
Glad it helped!
I've been trying to figure out how to enable the trigger! Thanks for the help. just sub'd!
Me too! Even Atomos’ video didn’t explain this well
This was Helpful
Please make the second video
Good video bro!
Thanks for watching!
Looking forward to your FCP X workflow
FCPX workflow video is up!
Thank you!!
You’re welcome!
This is great stuff! Quick question, do you use Zebra mode? And if so, what do you put it at? Would "100" be a good option, or is it like Slog, where you need to set it differently?
Fantastic! Thank you!
You answered all the questions I had with this episode! On to the next one please! Want to know if you have to de noise ProRes Raw data in post.
Thanks for watching! I do denoise it in post with neat video’s plugin.
My biggest take away was using PQ mode. In the past using an FS7, the Rec. 709 Monitior LUT was what I was used to. I am happy I watched this video and now know to use PQ. Keep up the good work!
Yeah but that's wrong
the 300 sub :D
thanks
Have you done any test with pro res ( HQ) under s-cinetone ?
Thanks! Do you know how to shoot in Prores 422? When I switch the codec from raw to standard 422 or 422 hq, the monitor feed shuts off. Are there any settings I need to fiddle with?
Great video! So would you always monitor in PQ regardless if you are shooting RAW? Would you also do this if you were shooting ProRes HQ in S-Log3 for instance? Thanks!
Thanks Jon! Yes. Any time I’m using SLog 3 I monitor in PQ.
Nice work on your channel! Appreciate the efforts.
I’m not able to get the Zebras working on the Ninja V in ProRes RAW in PQ mode. They show up on the Sony A7SIII. Thoughts?
Thanks! Yeah its definitely a bug with the Ninja V. I've been able to set them to 85-90 and they sometimes show up as clipped but i usually have to rely on my waveform.
Thanks for the video! There isn’t enoug info out there yet on this subject. Will you be demonstrating the workflow in Premier or final cut? Thanks
I’m planning on showing both although there seems to be more integration in FCPX
Hi Riley, thank you for the video. I am struggling now witch the prores, because Ninja only outputs the footage in rec 709, not in S-log. The camera says pp8 is not an option when recording raw via HDMI. Do you know what i am doing wrong??? Thank you so much!
did you find a solution?
I bought a second-hand AtomOS ninja inferno, I can’t update it because there is no access to the support site, I have version 8.5, but as I understand it, there is already 10.69, but how can I download it and or how can I get this file through someone and will it fit my AtomOS ninja inferno. please help me please!
is ProRes Raw HQ is better for little grading situations? and easy file size ? & can you adjust white balance with prores HQ? and other question is does Prores Raw give you GYRO stabilization data which can late be used in sony's catalyst browse to stabilize the footage ?
ProRes Raw HQ is less compressed, so bigger file sizes. Probably better if you are doing heavy VFX but I doubt you will see a significant difference in color grading since both are 12 bit. And unfortunately not none of the GYRO date is stored in PRR.
Hi Riley, will the A7SIII dual iso work in SLOG 3 when recording prores raw? Will it clean up when i go fro 10000 to 12800?
Yep!
Nice one. Will I be able to record pro res raw on the Sony fx30 as well ?
Yep! You need a ninja v+ for 4k 60 on the fx30 though
Why my recorded raw video are playing to fast on my macbook pro
Thanks Riley. I did pick up the Ninja V along with the a7Siii and the "learning curve" continues, loving the tutorials. Question, The a7Siii monitor turns off when connected to the Ninja V, is there a way to have both monitors on at the same time? You are very relatable, feel like I am having personal dialog, as if I was right there with you. Good quality to have on film. Thanks Again. Mark
Thanks Mark! I appreciate the kind remarks.
You might have the “HDMI Info Display” setting turned on. You will need to switch that off and both should display no problem.
You are AWESOME! Thank you, worked perfectly. Watching the "5 Best Features of a7Siii and Ninja V right now. Love the way you teach with example and footage. I also agree with you, as I learn how to use the touch focus capabilities should It will open up an easier work flow in the field vs a follow focus motor. Best, Mark
@@cinemasterproductions6940 So glad that helped!
does prores raw supported in premiere pro on windows ?
because it wont let me import the prores footage into premiere pro
As far as I know it is! You might need to update premiere or update your Ninja V
Ok, but if i want not to use the legalize option in the ninja teh PQ monitoring grey out. SOme lut you recomend for monitoring? tthanks
I don’t have a monitoring LUT since I typically use PQ. I normally just legalize in post but my workflow isn’t for everyone sorry. Alister Chapman’s website may have some good monitoring LUTs but there’s not a specific one I can recommend
Have you run into RAW Output being disabled with the new Sony A7Sii & FX3 firmware update?
Did you find a solution?
This is very useful ! Do you ever use False Color For skin tones ?
Thanks Terry! I don’t use it too often but it’s definitely a helpful tool!
Nice explaition. How do you like working with this camera? I got the pocket 6k but I’m really tempted for the as7 3 cause of the autofocus . How do you feel about it
I love it! I haven't looked back or regretted it for one second!
@@RileyEndicott I shoot feature film without a crew. my first 2 films were on RED, my new one was on the fuji xt3. i got the pocket 6k but that long battery, small factor and autofocus seems to be pretty legit. I wonder if the quality visually is as good as the pocket
@@PascalPayantfilms If you don't need the 6K resolution then I think the image quality will be just as good if not slightly better in some areas. Dynamic range is top notch and if you light everything well then I think the a7siii will serve you well! But if you are happy with your pocket 6k then don't feel like you need to rush out and buy it. Maybe rent it and see if you think the auto focus will work well enough for your productions. It's certainly worked well for mine!
Hey Riley, I came across your channel and all your videos are great. Very informative! I have a couple of questions about external recording.
1) What SSD do you typically use? I know atomos has a list, but was curious if you had a preference.
2) Have you ever experienced any dropped frames from recording externally, or “skipping” as some people call it? I’ve seen people talk about this and it makes me nervous, especially recording long interview takes.
3) How do you run interviews with recording externally? Do you just have to adjust the delay of the audio in the ninja? Heard that was an issue.
4) Do you need to have Raw selected in order to record to any prores format, or just raw? My main purpose is just prores for more efficient editing.
5) Will the dual internal recording record to whatever you have selected and setup in camera?
So sorry for the many questions. Just trying to understand before I make such a purchase. Thanks so much for the help. Subbed!
Thanks Nick!
1) I’m using the WD Blue SSD (500 GB version.
2) that drive has been reliable and I haven’t had dropped frames or issues recording interviews, weddings, etc for long durations.
3) I typically record audio with an external audio recorder. So I need to sync it up anyways.
4) I don’t think so but haven’t recorded any regular pro res on it yet. Just raw or internal codecs.
5) I’m a little confused by the question sorry. Can you clarify?
Hope that helps!
@@RileyEndicott Thanks so much for the quick response Riley! Really appreciate the help. For clarification on #5, it's a question about recording both externally and internally at the same time. Does it allow you to choose what it will record to internally while simultaneously recording to the ninja? Say H.265 4.2.0 10 bit? Do you just select the desired internal codec option and it does it the rest?
@@NickSavino That’s correct. You can record both internally and externally at the same time. So your internal codec is just dependent on which one you select. As long as your card is fast enough for the codec there isn’t many limitations in that regard.
@@RileyEndicott That's great info. Thanks a lot Riley!
@@NickSavino of course!
Really good tip! Will try PQ mode. Thanks!
Do you think prores raw still needs 2 stop over exposure?
Thanks! As long as you don’t need to raise your shadows in post you shouldn’t need to over expose. It isn’t going to hurt you but it’s not necessary with the image being 12 bit.
@@RileyEndicott Thanks!
why is my PQ mode cannot be sellected ? sorry for my bad english, im from indonesia
I noticed something quite interesting today and maybe its because I take a very unorthodox way of using ProRes RAW. I CANNOT use Final Cut. I just cant. I've been on resolve for years and I do not plan to move away. I use RAWConverter to convert my ProRes RAW from my FX30 to CDNG to use in Davinci Resolve. But after the conversion, Davinci has no idea if its in legal or HDR anymore. So the clips I record that looked fine on the Ninja, are now super blown out (and would be entirely unusable if it wasnt RAW) but since it is RAW, I turned down the gain, and then the exposure just a tiny bit and not only was it back in legal range for r.709, but there was no noise??? I found that really odd. But I was wondering why my ProRes RAW shots that get converted to CDNG always come in WAYYYYY over exposed. So I went back out, switched out of PQ mode and went in R709 instead, and the shots came in exactly how they looked when I was shooting. Very interesting - and ofcourse noise was in those shots as there normally would be. Again, I think this is because im converting the files so Davinci has no idea what to do with it to make it legal. But I Thought that was interesting to share that if you record ProRes and use a RAW coverter to work in Davinci, monitor in PQ, with a little knowledge on how to use the RAW tab to bring the clip back to legal range - I feel like I just completely removed the need for noise reduction completely. Here's how I set up my resolve for this (because I found this very interesting to share)
Davinci YRGB Color Managed
Input Color Space: ARRI Logc4 / ARRI Wide Gamut 4 (its RAW, you can say your input is whatever you want lol)
Timeline Color Space: Davinci Wide Gamut 5 / Davinci Intermediate
Timeline Working Luminance - SDR 100 (since everything I do is in r709...for now)
Output Color Space: R709 / Gamma 2.4
Camera RAW Tab:
CinemaDNG
Full res.
Project
Highlight Recovery (on)
Camera Metadata
As Shot
Black Magic Design
Black Magic Design Film
I import the CNDG clips, theyre so insanely blown out, I take the clip into the timeline, go the my color page, lower the gain to a reasonable setting, then lower the exposure tab a bit more until im within legal range. Then BOOM! Now I just go to town on giving the shot a look! My last 2 nodes are usually a CST r709 to Cineon Log Film then a Kodak Film Stock as my last node. All the nodes before it is qualifiers, tiny bit of tone mapping to recover some shadows if I want to, and then O/T (yes, im a sucker for Orange/Teal...but lately been digging more "moody" looks) and at the end? There is literally no noise. Even pixel peeping I see none. If I want a really sharp image? I just increase sharpness by a small amount...if I dont? I add a tad bit of film grain and it looks FANTASTIC. Yes, quite a bit of a workflow but once you know it - its done really fast and you dont have any NR going on slowing down your PC and your CPU or GPU yelling at you. Very interesting find. Maybe others know about this and im still just a noob XD but I thought this was really cool to share. Just been browsing YT to see how others are exposing for ProRes RAW but realized "Wait, but you convert your RAW to CNDG...your workflow will be different!"
Hlg and pq options in atomos will mimic how the image will look on a hdr diplay in hlg or pq. That's all it does. Those options are useful if you will master for hdr. If you record raw for social media, so you will master for sdr, those two options won't help you. You need a lut that transform slog into rec709
Thanks for the info. Question: I can’t seem to physically change the frame rate on my ninja. I can change it by changing the raw output setting but if I’m in regular pro res it’s just stuck in 60fps. Any thoughts?
It defaults to 1080 60p when it is in a monitor only mode. My guess is that you will have to enable trigger recording and automatic resolution. There may be some other settings that need to be tweaked or enabled.
@@RileyEndicott thanks. I just reset the monitor and now everything works how it should. Thanks again.
@@SamWhiteFilms Of course!
Is monitoring in PQ mode accurate for filming green screen video?
That’s what I would use. As long as as the green screen is lit evenly I don’t see why PQ wouldn’t be accurate.
Hey
I have a7siii but I have a big issue when I export footage from atomos ninja v. My premiere pro just crashes
Adobe encodes crashes too.
Are old mac computer limited to use prores raw? I am using MacOS Catalina retina 2012
version 10.15.7
Have you tried reinstalling premiere or deleting all of your memory cache files? Older Macs shouldn’t be limited. A faster machine might help but prores raw isn’t any more taxing on your machine than regular prores is. My guess is it’s a premiere issue.
@@RileyEndicott Thank you for repying. I deleted the caches and reinstalled premier pro but still crashes. I even tried Adobe Customer service. When I used footage from 1 dx mark ii (4k) they work nicely in premier pro. Could you please share the setting how you convert the prores raw to 3840- 2160. and how do you render them.
@@Etoshasafari Sorry to hear that. I use final cut primarily so I’m not sure it would be applicable.
Thanks for the video , I have one important question which u didn't answer in the video , how is PQ wave form different from normal wave form with 0 the dark and 100 the upper limit .. I mean in PQ WAVE FORM WHEN WE KNOW WE ARE LOOSING DETAIL , WHATS THE CLIPPING LIMIT ? LIKE ITS 100 IN NORMAL WAVE FORM .. PLEASE ANSWER... IM A BIT CONFUSED
I’m pretty sure that PQ does not impact the waveform.
@@RileyEndicott you mean what you see on the NINJA screen is the correct exposure or we have to look at the wave form first then use PQ to see if everything is in place
@@imadclicks PQ is just an HDR conversion of the log footage you are filming. (If you played your log footage on an HDR display that is what it would look like). The waveform values will match both the ‘native’ view and PQ.
@@RileyEndicott thanks bro appreciate your kindness in explaining so patiently... my confusion is cleared.. you gained a loyal subscribe now .. thanks stay blessed 🙌
@@imadclicks Happy to help! 🙂
you need to show us what HDMI wire your using I dont understand why no one is showing this.
Hi Riley, thanks for the great video. Oddly, the image on mine is not full screen. I notice that the exposure, iso etc that comes from your camera is not shown on your Ninja, whereas mine has it, and it takes up space at the bottom and top, instead of just fitting the image to screen size. Any idea why?
Thanks
You probably have the HDMI output set to display the settings and not the signal from your camera. You’ll want to change that in your settings so you don’t accidentally record the screen if you were intending to record the image.
@@RileyEndicott Thank you sooo much, I found it, and and now it's working as it should. I also have everything displayed on the camera screen as well now, instead of it being blank, which is perfect, when I need to check anything there. I even hav anamorphic full screen now. Woohoo. Amazingly, I wrote to Atomos, and they did not realise what the issue was...
Thanks for the help.
@@adsertheblade Happy to help! :)
I just recently shot something and screwed up majorly because I wanted to try the 12800 “dual” iso setting and learned after that that adjustment does not transfer over to Raw. Plus I was monitoring off a LUT and comparing to the PQ and R709 output setting on the monitor it exposes more closely to the R709 so I exposed for that and the end result is a very underexposed shot. So huge lesson learned.
I do have a chance to shoot it again so i will be monitoring off PQ mode this time but what ISO I should use from the camera? I heard 640 is the native so should I stick w that?
Both ISO 640 and 12800 are the base ISOs. I don’t think you screwed that part up. ISO 12800 does see a noticeable improvement in noise and dynamic (over 10000 for example) in raw, so that does transfer over to raw.
If you have enough light iso 640 should be a bit cleaner although since raw doesn’t have any noise reduction you’ll likely need to denoise in post anyway. Just make sure it’s lit and exposed properly and I think you’ll be fine. Good luck! 😁
@@RileyEndicott I've been told the dual ISO does not translate in Prores Raw but who knows. All I know is I shot at 12800 and it was Noisy as heck! Hope it will be much cleaner when I film at 640. Weird because I filmed w Prores Raw w another video and it came out fine. No noise no nothing.. probably because it was a much brighter setting and ISO is lower.
@@johnnytsang4993 I can confirm that it does translate. If you toggle from iso 10000 to 12800 while recording you will notice the difference as well. Either way PRR has considerably more noise. More light and a bit noise reduction in post should do the trick. Good luck with the next shoot! 😁
Hi nice video but you didn't talk about how the exposure waveform works in pg mode.
The waveform isn't impacted by the PQ mode. Since PQ is an HDR conversion of SLog 3 the waveform still gives you the SLog 3 values.
thanks. when you shoot prorest/raw you always have to use denoiser?
No. If you’re shooting at a base ISO and aren’t under exposing your images I think it’s more of a rare occurrence. If you underexpose a lot of shots or shoot at non base ISOs you might need to use it more.
@@RileyEndicott thanks
@@RileyEndicott can you make a video of how to use the ninja 5 with a gimball
@@georgemelo5326 just use a monitor arm of some kind to attach it 🙂
Which ssd do you use ? I have Wd blue and i am living 4k 60 raw continous record problem
Hey Osman, I'm using the WD Blue SSD as well (500 GB version) and don't have any issues recording continuously. Perhaps it is the cable?
@@RileyEndicott thank you so much for fast answer 🙏 you are right i will try another cable thank you 🙏
@@osmanlatif9369 Of course! Good luck!!
Hey need help My Sony A7Siii Raw option is grayed out and it says off when connected to the Ninja V any Walk around I tried a few high speed hdmi cables and nothing
It’s likely a setting that’s wrong. You will probably need to go through some of the HDMI settings.
@@RileyEndicott Hey could you post a link to the hdmi wire your using the link you posted did not work
I'm having the same issue. Did you happen to find a solution?
@@clinto32 Yea I updated the ninja v to the newest firmware and problem solved
@@iamRickBonilla ah thank you!! I'll try that out
Is anyone else here getting insane grain/noise at base ISO 640 when recording Prores Raw 16 bit externally from the A7siii. It's not even usable footage. Any help is appreciated. Thanks!
I saw a video addressing this. Need to use noise reduction.
why would raw output be greyed out?
did u find a solution
So if your highlights are blown out in the rec709 mode doesn't that mean they will be blown out in your edit if you edit in rec709 and export in rec709
Your image will look different in post bc you are dealing with SLog 3. Even if you put a rec709 LUT on top of it you still have more dynamic range available to you that you might be wasting.
Why my Ninja V apply luts when I record ProresRAW? I'm sure I'm record Native but when I check the footage on PC is not Slog footage..
It’s probably your editing software adding it. This is pretty normal. You’ll just need to select the clips and turn the LUT off.
@@RileyEndicott I just play the footage using QuickTime player or vlc player, not even goes into editing 😢
@@harpereng3771 that’s the issue. Raw footage needs to be converted to log to be viewable by non HDR monitors. You’ll need to import it into an editing software :)
@@RileyEndicott hmm I means the ProresRAW footages is with color profile even before I goes into editing software, it's very weird..
@@harpereng3771 It doesn't have a color profile. Raw footage needs to be converted to a log image to be viewable on a standard dynamic range monitor. You will need to import it to view it correctly. What you are describing is very normal. I have a post production process video on my channel that will walk you through how to do this :)
no 120fps in PRORES RAW Ninja V? :(
Nope. The ninja V can’t do 120fps in 4K.
@@RileyEndicott yes I know :( I hope a software update could fix that.
can you do one on dnxhr?
Unfortunately, I’ve never used dnxhr. But I imagine the process is relatively the same since it is very similar to regular pro res!
@@RileyEndicott Since commenting I learned that the ONLY codec that can record a RAW signal on the Ninja V is ProRes Raw. All DNx codecs cannot take a RAW signal for some reason. Atomos has no plans to change this :(
@@00WhiteBlade Regular ProRes doesn't use a raw signal either. Atomos isn't doing anything wrong. The a7siii should still shoot great DNX footage with a Ninja V without having to worry about a raw signal. So in that sense the set up portion of this video is not applicable but the monitoring portion is for both regular prores and DNX (assuming you are filming in SLog3).
@@RileyEndicott Here is what Atomos sent me when I inquired about it:
"The only way to record a RAW signal is in ProRes RAW, if you wish to record in all other codecs you
Have to disable RAW OUTPUT from your A7Siii , Once you have done this you will have the rest of the codecs to choose
From."
So as I understand it (and I could totally be wrong), the Ninja V will take a 16-bit RAW signal and transcode it to 12-bit ProRes Raw.
Whereas DNxHR can only take a signal set by the internal camera settings found under Image Quality>Movie Settings>Record Setting. (And shooting XAVC S-I 4k is always 10-bit 4:2:2).
Because there are no options for 12-bit video here you are effectively losing bit depth shooting in DNxHR. I know it's a little thing and both bit-depths still look "great", but you ARE technically losing bit depth by not recording from a RAW signal (in ProRes Raw).
Anyway, your video is excellent and the monitoring portion is still super helpful to me. I'm just looking for a good 12-bit - Ninja V - A7s III - Davinci workflow. I will certainly come back to this video when I am not the colorist and actually do need to shoot in ProRes Raw.
If you know a way to shoot 12-bit DNxHR I would really really love to know because I bought the Ninja V under the impression that was an option.
@@00WhiteBlade That totally makes sense! And I get what you are saying. I'm not aware of a 12 bit DNX codec in general but I could be wrong! You could always record in ProRes Raw and use another software to transcode it into ProRes 4444 which is a 12 bit codec that Davinci would accept. That is the best option I know of when using Davinci.
why are your skin tones so red and off?