a7siii + Ninja V | 5 Things I wish I knew (ProRes Raw)
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- čas přidán 5. 08. 2024
- Filming with the a7siii and Ninja V has been a great experience so far! But there are a few things I wish I would have known prior to recording ProRes Raw for the first time. Here are 5 things I wish I knew about the a7siii and the Ninja V.
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I have been searching through videos on CZcams for 2 days now after purchasing the ninja 5... and you have just answered all of the questions I had. Thank you!
I really enjoy watching all of your tutorials! Unique and insightful content. Also, the way you deliver the content is thorough and easy to understand, which I really like. Thx!
Thanks dude! I appreciate that! 😀
This footage is insane! True cinema quality! Share more!!
Excellent vid. thank you! Currently shooting a project in 120FPS with Slog3 but your tip number 1 about the Base ISO value here is priceless! Thx again!
Glad I could help! 😁
Great video.
Very succinct and really gave a great insight into using this setup effectively whilst noting the key drawbacks
Thank you!
Thanks man this helped a lot, I bought the Ninja V just today and will be combined with my A7siii
i just got my a7siii ! im real excited! i cant wait to get the ninja V!
Not sure how you're not getting more views man! Great content. Thanks for the vid - learned a bit about the combo I use most... Appreciatecha!
Thanks!
I totally agree!
This video is so helpyful! Thanks fot sharing! 🙏🏾👏🏾🙏🏾
Glad it was helpful!
So much value! Thanks a lot!
Happy to help!
Good video! Much needed :)
Thanks dude!!
Nailed it! Hdmi cables have been a drain over 12 in.Thanks
Thanks bro! Good luck with the channel!
Thanks! Appreciate it!
Thanks for the video. Watched your previous one and returned my Ninja V. Lol then I ended up building a rig and was contemplating on getting it again. ... You answered all the remaining questions.
Thanks bro. Subbed
Happy to help! Thanks!
I am glad to left your interest in ‘Faith’ out of the video.
Good info.
Very informative! Thank you!
Happy to help!
Glad I found this, super helpful since I just ordered the Atomos and also have an a7s iii! Also love the colouring on your A roll, very different but it feels so playful and happy!
Thanks Gordon!
@@RileyEndicott How do you deal with the noise that comes with pro res raw? And how do you quickly switch between 24fps / 60fps, the a7siii doesn't save it as a memory preset? Thanks so much!
@@gordonhatusupy2224 why didn’t you get the ninja v+?
@@DamijinMyndz It's almost 3 times as expensive and I don't really shoot 120fps that often. It looks great tho!
@@gordonhatusupy2224 ..understandable. I like future proofing so I’d be getting that one soon.
Hey, great video, Riley! For those of us who work in Windows, Pro-Res raw is a total pain. Apple has released the codec only to Premiere Pro in Windows, so there are no other ways to view the footage other than the editing program. Atomos is supposedly going to release an HEVC codec (charging 99 bucks, of course) to Ninja V owners next month. I'm not sure what the quality will be of a more compressed codec, but obviously it will mean shorter file sizes (Pro-Res is ridiculous) and will be more adaptable to video players in Windows.
Hey Riley, I have been super focussed on shooting and grading log and because of the demanding file sizes, haven't really ventured into the world of raw. That is until this week, so I have been deep diving into how best to integrate the proRes RAW format (technically not a codec) into my workflow, which led me to a few of your videos. I would be curious to know more about how you expose to mitigate the elevated noise levels (my initial tests suggest that ETTR isn't the same when going from log to RAW, is that your finding as well?), and if you have found a specific use case for when the RAW workflow makes the most sense. (It sounds like outdoors and in high contrast lighting is the only time you would really benefit from it). One final note, you mentioned that you have to be in sLog when shooting RAW but your picture profile actually disables when you output a raw signal, as there is no color gamut applied, or baked, into the image until you post process it. Thanks for the great video!
Thanks so much! Great video.
Thanks!
Really nice video. Thank you!
Thanks for watching!
hi Riley, I follow you from Italy and your advice is really helping me a lot to use this combo, thank you, hello!
Happy to help!!
Thank you so much!!
Very interesting, thank you!
No problem! Thanks for watching!
Interesting. Thanks for sharing the info
Thanks for watching!
Hey Riley, are you getting a lot of banding with your ninja v? If so do you know how to reduce it? I've tried every setting with the ninja and still get banding.
Thank you for this.
Great info. I’m learning ProRes Raw filming. It’s been expensive as I don’t have a cinema cam or a laptop that can edit ProRes. Everything is on order including FX3. Look forward to your future videos. Thank you 🙏
Thanks! Good luck with the FX3!
Very Clear. Many Thanks.
Of course!
Thank you for this
Thanks for watching!
Great video Riley, thanks for making!
Wondering if I can record non-raw ProRes files onto my Atomos V with my Sony A7SIII? Hoping to avoid the compressed Sony files, while also avoiding the big RAW file sizes, by going in between, and filming something like ProRes 422 LT or HQ onto the external recorder? I've tried figuring this out, but can't seem to get the recorder to record anything other than RAW with the Sony.
You will need to turn off raw output on the camera and then set the camera to the resolution you want to record pro res in. Then you shouldn't have any issues!
I have the same combination - Camera and Monitor. I use Western Digital Blue SSD's as well but 4 TB. I record in DNxHR. Don't have to worry about running out of storage space on a video shoot. 500GB is not enough for a days shoot for me.
Good video! Thank you!
Thank you!
Someone any idea why the record button is greyed out? When I go to activation all the codecs are not active.
I tried to download them from the website but they are not shown. I followed the instructions which are hard to find but still not sure if this is the reason for the greyed out recordbutton
Right so you need to be in the higher second ISO when recording, than makes sense, it's the same with the BMPCC4k, but on those cameras, if you use the second ISO range at 1250 it won't let you go down to 1000. So this is interesting, how does 6400 and 3200 perform on that second native ISO? Are they cleaner than if you shoot 3200 normally on the first ISO range?
Oh and also, on the BMPCC4K, the highest ISOs act kind off like new ISO ranges, if you shoot at 25600 you are stuck with it, I think anything over 6400 you can't change in post, does this happen on the a7siii too?
Hey Riley. How are you doing ? I am from India. Thanks for this video. We are planning to shoot a feature fiction of 100 minutes on Sony A7S3 using Ninja V as external recorded for RAW shots. I recently discovered that Da Vinci Resolve doesnt take Ninja Shots. Can you suggest the workflow for Ninja footage ?
Final cut and premiere work well with pro res raw. I would start there and round trip the color via a pro res 4444 file if you need to use resolve for that.
I have sony a7siii. Is it possible to see from both screens? What setting is needed?
I really am confused. I just got ninja with sony fx3. When I select ProRes Raw 23fps UHD, I can only record 3 minutes on a 1TB ssd :|
Very helpful video. Thank you. Are you shooting in ProRes RAW only, or have you also tried ProRes RAW HQ, and if so does the WD Blue Drive work for HQ too?
Thanks! I’ve only done a few brief tests in prores raw HQ. It’s worked but I haven’t done a long enough test to say with certain how it would do over a long recording duration.
Nice video! Looks like Ocean Shores :)
You would be correct 😁
Thanks for this Video Riley. I am not ashamed to say, adding the Atomos Ninja V to my setup has caused me nothing but frustration with regards to results. I am essentially a novice with a really great Camera, and I think I was just too soon to add another complexity to my workflow. I get great results directly from the Sony A7S iii, pretty much every time now and that took me awhile to be honest having only started photography 18 months ago, but I wanted a Video First camera. Adding the Ninja was just too soon, so recently I was about to sell it and go for the Shinobi to still get the great monitoring tools which I do use, but avoid the seemingly endless challenges in results. Anyway waffling on !! great Video and thanks, I will try again soon :)
Thanks Paul! Best of luck to you on your photo/video journey!!
@@RileyEndicott thanks !!!
Riley, would you do a quick video on your export settings and how you get your footage looking so good on YT please? I'm sure I wouldn't be alone in finding this really useful 😃🙌
wanna ask how long can you record Prores raw in 500G ssd,i used 1TB SSD but just can record 11MINS,am i setting anything wrong?OR it's about the frame rate i set to 60frames/SEC
I get about 90 minutes on my 500 GB SSD, although the display only says 30 minutes. It's a bug with reading the variable bit rate and isn't very accurate.
Thank you sir 👌
What did you use to record this video, the color looks amazing, is the a7s3 graded? what luts did you use, where i can find them?
Thanks Dan! I used my a7siii to film the video 🙂 I use James Miller’s DELUTs, Alister Chapman’s LUTs, and recently phantom luts. A quick search on google should pull up all three!
Thanks for sharing your great Knowledge! Quick question though; do we need to use denoiser at higher ISOs? I'm seeing the results of Pro Res Raw with the 5.9K 12 bit on the Panasonic S5. Lots of Noise. I'll see if it's the cable or something else. Some other creators say that de noising is a must in the RAW video workflow
Thanks Vernon! Denoising is definitely more common in the raw work flow. If you are shooting at higher ISOs or not giving the sensor enough light I would definitely expect to almost always to denoise (unless you are crushing your blacks pretty hard or doing something like that in your color grade).
Great info here ... Thanks!!! What metering mode do you use mostly? Is "multi" a good choice?
I don’t typically use a meter mode. I mostly use PQ mode and monitor from that.
Is the ssd still compatible?
Great video Riley! Subscribed! How do you stabilize ProRes RAW footage ? Active steady shot is disabled in camera & there’s no gyro data info for stabilization in post either. Thanks again!
I typically just use FCP or Premiere's standard stabilization tool. It works OK the majority of the time.
Awesome thank you. Where do you get the caddy, also which adapter are you using for the SSD to your MacBook.
You can both from B&H or Amazon. Atomos's brand works the best.
Can you tell me if face detection autofocus and object tracking (where you touch the screen and it locks focus on that object) work with the ninja?
It does but you have to touch the camera screen not the ninja screen.
Also, even at iso 640 and in sunlight, noise is excessive if you manipulate the blacks/shadows. My cpu even got replaced by Sony because it was so noisy. After I got it back, still noisy. Horrible. Open to suggestions if anyone has any.
Thanks Riley
Of course!
If you monitor with the PQ look will it give you that image when editing? If not is there a PQ lut/look you can get?
You will still have to transform the raw image to SLog 3 and work with that gamma/color space. You could add a rec709 LUT on top of that and it will get you pretty close. PQ (as I understand it) is LOG being displayed in HDR. So an exact match is only possible with an HDR monitor (like the ninja V), but a rec709 LUT with some minor tweaks should get you close!
*Question* Hey man! Love your videos! But I love the way pq mode looks when I’m filming but is there a lut that is similar for my clients so I can get a similar look to when I’m filming?
Thanks Enzo! Technically speaking there isn’t - you would need an HDR monitor. Practically speaking a good rec 709 LUT that doesn’t clip highlights would work well. The “neutral” LUT by Phantom LUTs is one of new favs and is super easy to work with.
Super super helpful video, I can't believe you're only getting 90 min on the 500GB card!
Happy to help! Yeah the files definitely aren’t small!
great video! exactly what I needed. What are you doing for file storage?
Thanks! I have an SSD I edit off of and two duplicate drives of everything I've finished.
Super!
Thank you! 😁
Great video - thank you! My problem right now with the Ninja V a7siii combination is to find a good hdmi cable that works for ProRes Raw. Any suggestions?
I use the Pearstone cable. It’s affordable and does the job!
Great video! Can you record raw to atomos and 10 bit to camera simultaneously?
Also Can you do 120p raw?
You can record both simultaneously but raw output is limited to 60p.
How do you deal with noise since the denotes from the a7siii is bypassed? Neat denoiser totally bogs down my machine.
Stay at the base ISO’s, give the sensor enough light, and expose to the right if you need to. You’ll probably need to use neat video though. Just do this last to avoid slowing down your whole edit. If you’re using FCPX turn background render off.
great vid man - subbed - any idea if the 120fps will come to the atomos?
Thank you! It will come to the Ninja V+ but I don’t know that the a7siii or the Fx3 will be able to output 120p in 4K. It can’t currently and it might be a limitation of HDMI.
What cable can I use to shoot prores raw at 60fps? The Kondor Blue coiled doesn’t seem to work for me.
I use a brand called pearstone that works well.
Can you clarify if the internal noise reduction in the a7siii is bypassed with the external prores raw?
It is. You’ll have to denoise in post as a part of your work flow.
I just got the a7s3 and the v+ I do edit in resolve. Do you have any words for me.
I don’t think resolve supports prores raw. Hopefully they decide to add support soon.
Great content. Have you tried using the new update S-Cinetone profile with the PQ Monitor?
Thanks Gabriel! I don’t think PQ would be compatible with S-cinetone. From what I understand S-cinetone doesn’t need a LUT or transform since it’s a ready to go / no need to really color grade type of profile.
@@RileyEndicott True! thanks for answering
Nice content.
Thank you!!
Do you know what these lines abouve and below the ISO Numbers meaning?
It means you are outside of the recommended ISO range.
Riley, i have the same exact SSD but my Ninja V stops recording suddenly when recording in ProResRaw, help!
My guess is there is a bad connection with your HDMI cable.
Hello Riley Endicott, Thanks for posting this video about Pro Res Raw.
Have you used LUT on Ninja V while filming on Pro Res Raw instead of PQ mode ?
For some reason Gamma view assist on Sony A7sIII doesn't look same as Slog3 to Rec709 LUT on Ninja V. Have you experienced similar issue ?
Hey Ravi! I typically just use PQ on the ninja V. I use LUTs on occasion but mostly just stick with PQ.
Yes I’ve noticed this too. I think the a7siii’s gamma view assist is better than than the rec709 LUT on the ninja v but I don’t have a super technical breakdown as to why - I suspect the gamma view assist does a better job of interpreting the highlights in SLog3.
@@RileyEndicott thanks for ur response. I will use PQ then. But In post when you import the footage in FCP or any NLE, what LUT are you using for Rec 709 delivery. I’m using Alister Chapman LUT for Slog3 to Rec709, but again they don’t look similar to Gamma View Assit. Any suggestions on this ?
@@whatilovetofilm Of course! I’ve been using Alister Chapman’s LUTs as well. And occasionally James Miller’s Deluts. You’re correct about gamma view assist not matching any rec709 LUT. I’m not sure what to make of it. Personally I don’t use it often for that reason, but it can be helpful to check on color/ lighting even if it isn’t a “close” match to the final image. It still can be more helpful than the flat SLog3 image on the small LCD screen as long as one understands the image will look somewhat different. After you do enough shoots/colors grades you should start to be able to predict the differences.
@@RileyEndicott Thank you !
@@whatilovetofilm of course!
Hello Riley, and thanks so much for this useful content. A question for you and that is, in regards to the Ninja V and the Sony fx3, do these tips apply to the fx3 as well? Thanks so much for your help on this issue.
I haven't used the fx3 yet but since it is the same sensor and UI as the a7siii I would assume so. I can't say for certain though.
Thanks so much for the input. It’s appreciated.😊👍
@@jeffreyfleming4016 No problem!
I got a Question for you.. Can you rec Proresraw in 1080p on the ninja?
No. It records in 4.2k only in raw
How much ram do you need to edit prores raw on M1 Max MacBook Pro ?
I haven't tried any of the M1 MacBooks yet. The M1 iMac I use has 16gb of ram and does fine.
so if I get the Ninja, would i still need those CF express cards to use something like 4k 120 or will the atamos unlock those features
The camera can’t output 120p in 4K. So would likely need a v90 SD card. The CF cards are only necessary if you want a 120p in the all i format.
@@RileyEndicott yeah i just got a V90 today , now i’m able to shoot 4k120 i have an A7Siii
yo riley, thank you for this man!
how does Pro res raw files compare to XAVC SI files in computer file size?
will 30 minutes of xavc si files be smaller than 30 minutes of pro res raw?
Yes. Prores raw is larger by a decent bit. I don’t have the exact conversion rate but it takes up maybe 3x (ish) more space than XAVC SI.
@@RileyEndicott damn.. that is a lot
I dont think i would shoot a wedding with raw because i dont think ill have enough storage for that much footage
Do you think pro res raw is good for small projects where your recording up to 2-3 hours?
@@TimandLauren Yeah a 1TB drive records about 3 hours.
It all depends on the project. The internal codecs are great. So don’t feel you are sacrificing anything. PRR has a few advantages like being able to handle all of the noise reduction in post and 12 bit color. So for certain projects it can definitely add some extra flexibility but it won’t fix bad lighting or save under exposed shots. I definitely don’t use it on everything.
@@RileyEndicott very good point, i just saw atomos’s fx3 video and was amazed at the quality cause that does not look like the footage i get with my fx3
Want that next level quality!
@@TimandLauren Haha I know what you mean! I think lensing and lighting probably account for the difference the majority of the time.
How can I record 60p with the fx3?
Externally with a ninja v?
Riley, I have this issue where I shoot on my ninja v and FX3. I will shoot in slog3 Raw and it looks fine on the monitor, however when I load the media on the computer and play the .mov file, it has been processed with some color space. I brought it into premiere and it has added a BT2020 space to it. I have to manually change it back. Have u encountered this?
Hey Ben! Your computer doesn’t know that the raw signal needs to be set to SLog in post. That’s part of the workflow. I have a post production workflow video about this 🙂
@@RileyEndicott yea I saw that video. I was actually more curious about why QuickTime plays it with a processed color space
@@bencassiani7328 My understanding is that QuickTime doesn’t know to apply an Slog 3 transform to the footage (QuickTime is actually displaying an unprocessed image). So it displays the signal as linear. This results in only about 7 stops being displayed and the other information isn’t viewable. Slog 3 compresses more dynamic range into an SDR color space that most of our monitors can view. When this doesn’t happen the result is what we’re seeing.
I have the ninja v with the 1TB ssd and I can only record a little over 2 hours before the storage gets full, there’s any way to get more time with the same storage? 2 hours is the amount I get with the 128gb SD, compared with 1TB it is a big difference
If you are using pro res raw and not pro res raw HQ probably not. It’s a beefy codec.
Hi brother , atomos made an update for the fx3 and a1, and what about for the A7siii? I just bought a7siii , do I need to returned it get the fx3 instead?thank you brother
It’s just a compatibility update for the new cameras. The a7siii has worked with the ninja v this whole time. You don’t have anything to worry about. I guess that depends on what type of projects you create. The fx3 and the a7siii are the exact same camera with the exception of a few ergonomic differences. I’m not trading mine in.
Why so much blood on your hands bro? 😂 The red colors are screaming out of my screen! Anyways Great video as always!
So should I not be using a monitoring LUT that I imported and instead use PQ?
If you get good results with your monitoring LUT then use that! I’ve found PQ to work more consistently for me!
Thank you for the insight. Debating to get one to use with my Canon R6
Of course! Sounds like a great combo!
This may sound crazy but can you record regular 4k ProRez (not raw) too? Thanks.
Yep! You definitely can.
@@RileyEndicott thanks much
Hi 🙂
Can the Ninja V+ "downsample" record?
The Canon R6 M2 sends a 6k raw feed.
But we want to record it at 4k, to save space.
Is this possible with the Ninja?
Or do we have to record at 6k, from the 6k feed?
Thx :-)
Hey there! You can’t downsample while recording in raw. But I believe you can record standard pro res at 4K that is from a 6k source. I don’t have the R6ii so I can’t promise that but I’m fairly certain.
@@RileyEndicott THX! That would be great.
If we can record 4k ProRes from that 6k feed,,, we would certainly buy the R6M2.
Seems the support is not there yet in Ninja...
Hope soon.
Thx for your reply!
J
Very helpful. Should we underexpose in prores raw? Thanks.
I wouldn’t underexposed. It can get noisy if you are trying to raise the shadows and recover info there.
Nice video, good job, but i have a question, maybe stupid, but how do you change iso in final cut pro?? i can only see what iso i shoot with, but cant control it....
Hey Piotr! Are you on the latest firmware for both the camera and ninja V?
@@RileyEndicott I found it... I’m new to final cut, because I was using all the time davinci, and final cut seems so unintuitive... everything is hidden somewhere, anyway thanks for reply :) I wouldn’t know that I can change it without your movie :)
@@br4tp1t1 glad you found it!!
and is it still possible to shoot proxies when recording Proresraw?
Yes. You can record internally while recording externally.
What do you recommend today ninja V or ninja v plus ?
It depends on what camera you use. The a7siii won’t really benefit from the ninja v + but the R5 will.
I wonder how is it that you get to film 90 min on a 500Gb SSD, I just get 23min with the angelbird, Am I doing something wrong?
You aren't doing anything wrong. ProRes Raw is a variable bit rate codec meaning that the actual file sizes can vary depending on what is in the scene. The ninja V displays the absolute minimum time you have remaining but in reality you most likely have 3-4x more than the time that is displayed.
6:27 what lens did you use for this shot? 🔥
Sony 70-300!
I use the Ninja V with the A7s3 and follow all these steps and the footage is SUUUUUPER noisy. I don't know what else to do. It's really frustrating. I have to apply noise reduction in post always. No matter if the shooting was in low light, outdoors, indoors, with daylight....Always NOISE.
I came for figuring out what hard drive to get for recording prores raw 60 fps. You got the PC WD Blue version which isn't recommended. I've heard the SA510 WD Blue is the way to go but have also heard it isn't stable with prores raw 60fps.. so maybe the PC WD Blue is actually the move!? Please let me know asap I am ordering drives for a shoot.
I see you linked the WD BLue 3d Nand. Is that the way to go Riley?
That is the only SSD I have purchased. I’ve had zero issues!
Hi Riley, thank you for this video! Could you show us your settings in the a7s III and the Ninja V to record in Prores raw?
Thanks for watching! I have another video on my channel going over some of this - czcams.com/video/q77jupRV-AE/video.html
Hope that answers your question!
Many thanks!
@@Malaespinaprod no problem!
My late 2017 Mac Pro is speced out and has trouble with prores raw. If you make absolutely no edits to the footage then it works well but if you add even a basic lumetri adjustment, it’s chop city.
And you say, that proresRAW is easy to handle, but is it the same on PC´s and Mac´s?
Yes. It has more do with the speed of your processor than the type of computer you use. Prores raw does not require a super fast computer to use.
great info . thx - sub
Thanks Ossi!!
Appreciate the video man, can you link that SSD for me?
I added it in the description!
@@RileyEndicott appreciate it!
Is it possible to change iso wb temp exposure of Sony a7siii Prores raw in FCPX?
You change ISO but not WB.
@@RileyEndicott wb can be change on fx3 raw?
@@film2375 I don’t know. I would be surprised since it’s the same sensor but it’s possible.
Wow. Is your talking head filmed with the a7siii in ProRes RAW through Ninja V? Looks so crispy.
No it’s just filmed the internal codec. Thanks!!
Something I wish I knew was how noisy ProRes Raw is. I learned you have to do the noise processing in post since it’s not done in camera.
Yeah that's definitely a bit of learning curve at first!
How did you 90min of ProRes RAW at 24fps ..on a 500GB SSD??.. am I missing something? because my ninja V tells me on an empty 500GB SSD I get only around 23/24min of ProRes RAW (non HQ) reording time?...
That's normal. ProRes Raw is a variable bit rate. I think what is going on is that 24 minutes is the least possible amount of time you could get. In reality you should get closer to 90 minutes.
@@RileyEndicott okay thx!
.. that explains it a bit I think. Because of the variable bit rate, the Ninja V can probably only make a very rough estimate...
..And Does it adjust the estimated recording time as you move past the 23/24min recording point, or do I have to keep track of it myself?
--Because I haven't gone past 15 min of Rec-time yet.
One other question:
After having made a backup of the files on an backup drive.
Do I have to re-format the ssd inside the Ninja V every time I want to empty it for the next shoot?
Thx again.
@@RaymondKPhotoVideography The time remaining indicator will change as you film. In my tests it displays about 3x less space than you have left. So if it reads 10 minutes left, you should have roughly 30, etc.
You should be able to format inside the Ninja V or delete off of a computer. In my experience both are fine.
@@RileyEndicott Thx for the info!
I'm about to head out for a two week trip where I'll be recording with the Ninja V on and off in the field, so this info really helps out a lot!
(better to figure it out how it works before the job, than to run straight into surprises on the job ;)
So, again, very much appreciate your time to provide me with the info/tips!
@@RaymondKPhotoVideography Good luck on the project!!