Obstacle Clearance on DDay
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- čas přidán 14. 02. 2022
- DDay - Obstacle Clearance
With Stephen Fisher
Battles at Sea and Naval History on WW2TV
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We look at Czech Hedgehogs, Belgian Gates, Log Ramps Tetrahedrons and the various ways Royal Navy and Royal Engineers planned to remove them on June 6th 1944.
Stephen Fisher is an archaeologist and historian specialising in 20th century military conflict. One of his areas of interest is Operation Neptune and D-Day embarkation, and recently he was the heritage advisor during the restoration of LCT 7074, the last remaining Landing Craft Tank in the UK. He also specialises in Coastal Forces and maritime actions of both wars.
spitfiresofthesea.com/
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Additional Resources
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The Bombing of France • The Bombing of France ...
Training for DDay
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DDay in Sainte-Mère-Église - What really happened? • DDay in Sainte-Mère-Ég...
6th Airborne - Pegasus Bridge • 6th Airborne - Pegasu...
Eisenhower's Leadership - Supreme Commander on DDay • Eisenhower's Leadershi...
Angels of Mercy - Angoville au Plain • Angels of Mercy - Ango...
DDay Vanguard: • DDay Vanguard: The Tru...
Panzers - German Armoured Units in Normandy on D-Day • Panzers - German Armou...
Jimmy Monteith - The F1 Draw on DDay (Omaha Beach) • DDay - Jimmy Monteith ...
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I don't know if this is the absolute best discussion of the Normandy D-Day beach defenses on the internet or not. Its absolutely the best I've ever experienced. Paul's guest knows and shares a whole helluva a lot on a very narrow subject and just freely shares what he knows. Not only that if a question is beyond his knowledge (very little of that) he says so. This is a first class schooling on little known facts expanded to the nth degree. Exceptionally well done!!
It is the best ;-)
@@WW2TV no arguement from me. I don't know the correct superlative to use here. It stated as impressive and progressed to incredible. Wow
Thanks, glad you liked it!
@@stephenfisheruk Way bigtime impressive.
As an Army Engineer I find this subject very interesting. I had to give a brief to my Brigade Commander and Staff on Omaha beach back in 98 on the obstacle clearance by the Navy CBs, and Combat Engineers of the 1st and 29th Infantry Divisions. It did not go well. This is much better.
Thanks Patrick
Glad you enjoyed it!
The statistics of casualties due to obstacles/mines was shocking! I had no idea… 😮
Glad so many people enjoyed the talk. I forgot to address the question about the number of obstacles on the beaches. A post-landing report into opposition on the beaches gave the following statistics:
Sword - Queen: 911 obstacles
Juno - Mike: 915, Nan 2701
Gold - Jig: 1413, King: 1042
Thanks Stephen
I also wanted to ask...
You pointed out the difference various obstacles made against vehicles traversing the shores vs landing craft approaching the shores...
The invasion was strategically aimed to coincide with the moonphase and thus started at low tide...
What difference did high or low tide make on the "efficacy" of those obstacles🤔...
Did the sheer volume of the allied effort manage to nullify the obstacles🤔
Here is an afterthought...
Could the Overlord portion have had greater numbers to assist the Neptune aspect🤔
Wow! Another great presentation! A historian whom primarily looks at the original archival technical data and sources and not secondary history is a true historian. If this is what happens when an archiologist does history let's get all of our great contemporary historians digging! I so love presentations where I learn so much new about subjects I mistakenly thought I knew! ONLY a minor complaint Woody, you never said 'rabbit hole' and I am thirsty!
This was absolutely divine-especially for those of us who like the nuts, bolts and fine details. I turned it on thinking I'd watch about a half and hour and be bored. Two hours later, I wished there was still more. Amazing video, thank both of you so much for all the difficult research that went into this in depth episode. I can't wait for the next one from Stephen!
You are so welcome!
Great channel, My Granda landed on one of the British invasion beaches, he voluntered and was an Engineer, im sure he would of been involved in obstacle clearace, bridge demolition etc, he passed away in 1985 shortly after i was born
Thanks for sharing that. You should look into acquiring his service records from the MoD
Anything that you need to know about the on beach defences in Normandy or the Atlantikwall in general, and how to get through them, is right here. Absolutely outstanding presentation from Stephen.
Thank you kindly
Outstanding presentation gentlemen. So glad I found your channel a few weeks ago. The content is spot on. 5 stars
Thank you kindly!
Another outstanding WW2TV show! Stephen gives so much indepth detailed on clearing the beach obstacles at Normandy you can listen to it over and over again and still learn something new!
Thank you, glad you enjoyed it!
Fantastic presentation. In depth detail backed up by primary sources. Thank you
Glad you enjoyed it!
Great show, so much information in a really clear delivery. Thanks, really enjoyed the video.
Excellent program as I have come to enjoy from your channel. Amazing research by Stephen to prove/disprove the notion that obstacle removal teams preceded the landings. He is also an excellent presenter. For Thursday, and chance you could line up the 3rd installment of American War Crimes? I have been anxiously awaiting the final episode in that series. Thanks again Paul for outstanding material and authors!!!
Very kind of you to say so.
Just watched this, Paul, Stephens 2 hrs of info factual was brilliant. Very impressed. Very much enjoyed.
I'm glad to say that as a historian and D-Day geek I've never actually heard of the myth that people landed hours before H-Hour before. I'm also glad that the first time I'm hearing it, it immediately gets debunked :)
Paul and team, WOW just amazing. Just the other day I was thinking about such things. I wanted to know before all these object where cleared and what beach had best defences .. One of the best shows I seen to date , please more of the same. this is just so interesting . Bloody brilliant Paul
It is - quite unique one never really looked into this. I knew the clean up lasted quite along time this segment dials in to what, why,when and where they were there and left . Good show
Thanks for the nice review. Stephen is stunningly goodon this subject
Totally agree with Stephens' early comment. Pat yourself on the back m8 for the outstanding coverage and guests you give us on this channel.
I have used the Normandy episodes to gain a greater knowledge of not only the beaches but also the battle sites in land that we will also be visiting. In fact, I've used a similar format with still photographs, live footage to pass this on (and the channel itself) to the other members of our forthcoming tour. The feedback I'm getting is that it will enhance the visit.
Great job, my FiL was a Combat Engineer on D-Day on Omaha so trying to find out all I can on their job. I take the numerous Engineer battalions stayed in the D-Day area clearing these obstacles.
My uncle, Bill Vivian was an engineer that landed on Omaha beach. From there he fought all the way to Bastogne and the battle of the Bulge.
Just read sand and steel. This is great stuff.
Only just found this and I thank you for the most detailed and interesting aspect of D day so often glossed over as a single line in history. Many photos I have never seen and the conclusions are an insight into what is now known given the information at source is now available. well done
For a good account of the engineering teams who worked on the beach defences beyond those discussed here, I recommend "Cracking Hitler's Atlantic Wall: The 1st Assault Brigade Royal Engineers on D-Day" by Richard Anderson.
Yep, a great book
Thanks again, Paul and Stephen, for an very entertaining and informative presentation!
As well as the 'mythbusting' that comes with the intelligent use of primary sources, your gentle highlighting of how some of the myths may have come about, and then in turn have been perpetuated, I thought was a particularly effective method of illustrating the what and the why of an Historians job: constant reassessment and assuming nothing!
Well said Jonathan
This was a belter - another great presentation!
To your point about source information. Pre-COVID The Wife and I were fortunate enough to take the Stephen Ambrose Band of Brothers tour. Having watched the series over and over and over and over AND over… One scene that always makes me sad from a loss of history stand point is in the episode “Crossroads”. After being moved up to battalion XO, Winters is typing up his after-action report and Nixon tells him, “Dick you know that isn’t literature, just keep it simple…”. How much history was lost due to lack of time or soldiers just ‘keeping it simple’? Keep up the good work!
I'm watching BoB for the 18th time and the first time I watched it was in July 2019, after returning from Normandy!
Excellent presentation, it's great to learn new information about the landings from a different perspective.
Excellent point about the danger of taking eyewitness accounts at face value.
Absolutely superb show about an often overlooked problem (and allied solution) faced by those who came ashore on the D-Day Beaches. Bravo!
Very interesting topic, as a war gamer, always love to see more about the history
Excellent show with Stephen Fisher; quite a privilege to learn so much from this talented Archeologist and Historian, and enjoy all his archival/research work he includes here.
Many thanks! Yep he is great
This is absolutely brilliant . You continue to get amazing subject matter experts on your channel Woody . Keep up the good work mate .
Thanks, will do!
This show has answered many of the fleeting questions people have had in their mind. Also the details. Fantastic presentation
Fantastic. Thanks.
Thank you too Nick
Thankyou gentlemen
Very, very interesting show Paul. Leaned many new things. Truly enjoyed it.
Glad you enjoyed it. Stephen was ace
My father knew he was gonna be drafted and joined the Navy. They told him at Boot if you fail the swim test "We send you to the Infantry!" so he paid a guy to take his test. Who knew? Guy swam so well, and my dad ran track in college and was smart, they sent him by train to Ft Pierce. When they were waiting in line they could hear explosions. After about half a hour in line all the Corpsmen ran out of the Infirmary Quonset and rushed toi the beach with all their ambulances. My dad was still in line when they returned with washtubs with limbs, internal organs, and everything else that should be inside. A NCDU or UDT team blew itself somehow blowing a lane through obstacles for practice.
My dad declined to volunteer for anything until he was finally told, after 2 weeks, that if he doesn't volunteer at the next interview he was getting "sent to the Infantry!"
Next team was a Scouts and Raiders. He said yeas. My dad spent 2 years in the South Pacific. Her could dog paddle, and swim with a vest with weapon, equipment and uniform. He could paddle a IBS. Got out a E5 and they never found out. And he never went to the Infantry.
Most of the other teams went to India
And I forgot, he was colorblind, and got a signalman rating. How he could tell the flags apart, never figured that out.
Excellent. Allot of questions answered. I always find facts a much better than fiction. Note: A good book on "Americas First Frogman" Draper Kauffman.
According to Charles Corlett, one of the reasons he was brought to Europe before Normandy was to contribute his experience from Pacific amphibious operations to the landings but was rather obnoxiously ignored.
Fantastic presentation, stuff that i had not realised was happening and the order it happened, just a brilliant presentation which i can take forward into a gaming scenario for my next d-day landing game, cheers for this gents.👍
Glad you enjoyed it! Please consider becoming a channel member or patron if you like what we do here
Superb
44:59 An excellent presentation but the Bulldozer was assigned to a 'Beach Brick' which was responsible for clearing and maintaining a section of the beach and the exits. Their main job was recovering drowned vehicles, using wrecker trucks to get vehicles through the dunes, and act as a point of contact for units and stragglers. They had secondary tasks including obstacle clearance and stripping guns and explosives from wrecked shipping. They remained in place for quite some time and certainly well after Mulberry came into operation. According to a couple of veterans who were there they were responsible for everything down to the lowest tide point plus twenty feet but NOT the corpses other than those in vehicles/shipping close inshore.
NB: The twenty feet bit was quoted by one but not by the other two. Something I'll check someday. I've also been told that all(?) the members in a diving unit were trained and rotated in and out of the water. Bearing in mind the heat loss in the sea this would make sense. Thank You for noting the flipper issue. That is one thing, if not the first, that many said.
What was a great presentation on quite a niche, albeit very interesting topic became an illuminating historiographical discussion of oral history and popular memory. Brilliant!
Astounding presentation. ⭐🍺
Waldron and Gleeson; "Above us; the waves."
The very necessary companion volume to "The Frogmen", by those same, much-Respected Authors.
-
Kind and Respectful Regards, Gentlemen.
Uyraell, Wgtn, NZ.
Another excellent presentation.thank you.
You are very welcome
What an excellent presentation. Thank you Stephen and Paul.
Our pleasure!
I did not know many landing craft were damaged by the obstacles on D-Day. I'm sure most people watching this didn't either.
Awww shucks I missed this live presentation but greatly enjoyed the replay. Stephen is astoundingly knowledgeable. All those excellent photos of the beaches on D-Day also reawakened one thing that bugs me - the beaches are pristine!
A prodigious amount of ordinance had just been hurled at those beaches from naval shore bombardment and aerial bombing so I'd expect craters everywhere. This could have really helped the guys getting up the beach by providing good cover and also by chewing up the beach obstacles.
Would love to hear Stephen's thoughts on the tale pushed by Ambrose (and now carried on by many others) that Landing Craft crew refused to take the men to the beaches because they were afraid and had to be forced to do so at gun-point 🙄😁
Ambrose's tale seems to have been largely disproven by a man who believes he was in said landing craft. That said, his isn't the only such account. In his memoir, Jim Bellows recounts using his revolver as leverage to get the CO of his LCT to beach closer inshore (not actually threatening to shoot him though) and there's one instance of a RNVR officer threatening to shoot an American who came on his boat (somewhat less seriously though).
I would ignore Stephen Ambrose as a historian. His output was purely to maximise his Hollywood earnings and to vent his Anglophobia
The problem with trying to put craters on a beach on a rising tide is that they fill up really quickly. Plus the planners concluded that craters would inhibit progress of vehicles etc more than would provide benefits
Thanks for your replies Stephen and Paul and Terry - they are much appreciated!
Thanks for that. Often wondered about the effectiveness of the obstacles, how they were placed and ultimately cleared. Something that's skimmed over or not mentioned at all in the histories i've read ( only a few to be honest). Like your clobber in this vid btw Woody.
No rabbit hole mentioned!
I totally agree with the summary histories vs primary sources.
In my own personal combat experiences, I've had media lie about events I was a part of. I've seen records altered or inaccurate to what actually occurred. I've seen stories told a certain way because the truth was classified. And few people have the whole picture of everything that happened and why, so even first-hand accounts can be inaccurate and clouded by biases and false perceptions of what was going on at the time.
Movies have been made, books, written, and college courses studied events I was present for, and it's interesting seeing how other people react. It's interesting observing events discussed by others, not knowing you exist or that you have the true story.
I've also already experienced this again in my civilian life as well. I've been involved in tech development and world record setting efforts. And how people react to that is another interesting point of reference. And it really shows how people who weren't even there can rewrite history with their own misconceptions. I even experienced a coworker trying to pass it off to others as if he'd been part of teh project, and was telling them all about the engineering that went into it. All the while I was standing there and listening to him, and he had no clue who I was. I let him tell his bit. But at the end I spoke up and pushed back a bit, to let him know I knew things, and to correct some wild inaccuracies he was telling to potential future clients. After they left I let him know who I was. I never saw him again for the rest of the event.
People put their own spin on things, tell the story the way they want it to be, often times with total disregard for the facts. Many without even trying to dig deeper into the details to confirm their ideas.
I stopped watching TV news in 2015.
A bulldozer and a tank, despite some physical similarity would be seem to me to be totally different in ability. The tank is designed to go at speed, whereas the bulldozers function is to push loads at relatively low speed. I was involved in a plough-in of a pipeline where a converted tank was used. Wound up with the tank/plough contraption being towed by a bulldozer. The tank just didn't have the low end grunt.
Thanks for the info
I drove and subsequently commanded Centurion AVREs - fitted with either dozer blade or mineplough - for many years (32 Armoured Engineer Regiment RE - the latterday descendents of 79th Armoured Div. Hobart's Funnies who used Churchill AVREs). The Dozing capability of both these vehicles was phenomenal. I'd be interested to know the model of tank that's being discussed here as the Gearing type (and driver skill) will have a significant effect. NB: With reference to tanks being "designed to travel at speed" all tanks have a range of gears - Dozing is only ever done using the lowest gear possible - this gives maximum pushing power and should easily outclass most bulldozers.
Three and a half minutes into this item and I am sold...😂
Nothing like the actual formal reports, which even when they are "fudged", you can match them with the evidence and get to the crux of the matters...
fortunately both sides kept records and these can verify and clarify what books and other claims, mislead us all about🤓
Mother Nature had her own plans that day.
i think if you were to plan a landing today you would have teams of seals the night before clearing a path. have them go in when the para go in. time the clearing explosions to the expected landing time
My father’s LST went into southern France and Okinawa. I’m wondering what obstacles his LST avoided
Wonder who much the expected tides was effected by the delay in D Day from 5 June to 6 June (based on a weather report from a young girl from a lighthouse in the West of Ireland).
Under international law on neutrality, weather reports shouldn’t have been shared with the allies (but were)
Stephen Fisher, were air dropped bombs considered to remove obstacle?
No. There's another enduring myth that the beaches were bombed so that there would be craters for the infantry to take cover in. In actual fact most of the bombing missions on the morning of D-Day that attacked beach strongpoints used small 100lb bombs specifically to avoid cratering, as craters could severely hamper the vehicle advance. All the bombing missions had specific strongpoint targets. Most missed by a mile, but they weren't expected to clear the beaches in those raids. The only possible exception in Utah, where the bombers flew along the beach and were therefore more likely to hit obstacles. But again, their targets were really the strongpoints.
Interesting. Some of the information is "correct" for Normandy but certainly different for Italy.
But it is well said as they didn't always land at the same time.
The beach bricks did do things differently.
I'm a reenactor for RN Beach Commandos and my grandad was a beach commando in Italy.
"Correct"?
Depends upon what theatre and beach your talking. Generic beach and landing plans aren't as correct as you would think.
In the 1945 pamphlet for beach landings the timings and landings aren't correct. (I believe its sword) if you look at videos or accounts timings aren't correct.
Same is said with RNBC for Italy at least they landed first or in the first wave on many landings.
For LCOCU it varies per beach, some accounts do specify landing before the first and some during.
As for beach entry and exits (such as wheeled) the Beach master picked the entry and his Army equivalent (ALMO) picked the exit, the beach brick (RE, RNBC, LCOCU etc) would then make the path ways between the two and make sure nothing obscured the landing point
I'm sorry, but I think you're missing something. I make quite clear in the talk that the exact arrangements varied on each beach at Normandy (which this talk was about, not Italy) so the details of that are as 'correct' as they can be. Beach exits were selected in advance of the landings, so that LCT crews could be assigned landing locations and AVREs could drive directly up the beach to clear them. The Beach Masters and AMLOs were responsible for them, but worked to a predetermined plan. This could change on the ground of course, but not in the initial landings. And to be quite clear, no official or primary record - anywhere - specifies LCOCU landing before the assault at Normandy. Later accounts that do are refuted by the primary source material and in the final part of the talk.
The Royal Navy learnt a lot, then FORGOT most of it for the Falklands 😢
On the American beached did the navy or the army has primary responsibility for beach clearing?
Good question, and i don't think there is an answer, because Army and Navy personnel have tasks to perform alongside each other
What’s the “WM” you keep referring to?
IWM - Imperial War Museum?
@@WW2TV sounds like WM rather than IWM and a 3 digit number?
I think you are referring to German positions?
oh WN, yes Widerstandsnest
@@WW2TV thanks “nest of resistance” according to Google translate
Indeed, we use the term in lots of WW2TV shows, such as czcams.com/users/live_z1kiG8sRpo?si=3iJSsyg2XNYm-TTZ
how succesful were the frogmen blowing up the belgian gates and other physical obstacles below the high water line
There were no frogmen, that is one of the enduring myths
ok thanks paul-it was too rough but ive read a veteran story where he was in a party of four and the german snipers shot three of them@@WW2TV
120 men using Dunlop UWSBA
in 10 teams of 12 went in H Hour - 20 mins
The first men on the beaches on DDay were Royal Navy and RM Frogmen Juno Gold and Sword
The US UDT Swimmers did not use Diving equipment
WW2 magazine history ran a brief article in 2012 Febuary edition
Why are any of the Beaches not Bomb cratered?
Because the bombing often missed, and of course beaches self-repaired after tides and some photos were taken later
An excellent presentation. Your presentation refers to correcting myths and legends, but you missed on a couple points. First, the US Army's "rejection" of the British specialized armor. Richard Anderson and others have pointed out that the US Army WAS interested in some of the special vehicles but British workshops could barely meet the needs of the Commonwealth forces. The DD tank had come about early enough that the US Army could get American production involved. 350 DD tank conversion kits were manufactured by Firestone Tire and Rubber. These were applied to M4A1 tanks at the Lima Tank depot. The other "funnies" were not available in time for training and to be integrated into the established landing plans. One does not just add complex armor to the plan at the last minute. The other point is the reference to the Americans benefitting from their experiences in the Pacific. A couple officers who served in the Pacific before transferring to the ETOUSA were bluntly told that their input was not desired! One was told that the Pacific was "bush league stuff". The US Army in Europe did NOT want any involvement from the US Marine Corps in any way or form. The publicity accorded to the US Marine Expeditionary Brigade (part of the US 2nd Infantry Division) in France in WW1 still rankled Army officers sixteen years later! There was an institutional bias against ANY USMC involvement in Europe.
Thank yiu, but if that's the case about the Pacific, what about the USMC officers who were observers with SHAEF, was it just for show?
I don't think I "missed" those points, they're just not relevant to the subject matter. I don't recall saying that the US rejected AVREs...
jist tak the time tae learn anither language ... nae difficult
Sorry, what?
makes yi wonder . these learned lads canna break oot o' their english language pronunciations !! ?
What's your point?