How to make: Lamellar armour pt. 3.
Vložit
- čas přidán 11. 09. 2010
- The third, and finally, part on how to make Lamellar armour. If you have any questions please feel free to ask. Thank you and enjoy.
Links:
Part 1 - • How to make: Lamellar ...
Part 2 - • How to make: Lamellar ... - Jak na to + styl
I think another advantage of lamellar is that it can be easily repaired while far away from home. Got some fallen or damaged pieces? Grab some from a dead buddy, probably plenty of those and use any sort of string to patch up the holes.
& if you run role playing game campaigns anymore, that can actually be used to importance. You don't have to be an armorer to repair Lamellar, but almost any other type of armor, you need at least a little bit of specialized knowledge to affect a repair. Unfortunately i never get to play anymore because the internet has replaced person to person social skills! ;)
One tip I would recommend. Use 550# test parachute line cord for your lacing. However, you have to lock the knots with a lighter or butane torch to keep them from slipping. It is very strong, and slightly easier to work with than leather lacing.
It also comes in a wide array of colors.
Thanks for the tutorial. I am looking at making Byzantine style lamellar armour from leather and found the tutorial very informative.
i don't think it could you could do scale maille instead. lamellar doesn't depend on what pieces your using for it, its usually the weaving pattern that makes it lamellar
It's actually very easy to add extra pieces ot Lamellar,just plan a little ahead and you should be good. My shoulder pieces are seperate parts that I attacth with armming points.
Like I've said no armor is 100%. Every type has a weakness, but the smiths did do things to help pervent what your saying. 1) they actually rose the center of the lamellar pieces so it would take the hit & not the leather. 2) they used really thick cord so it would, god willing take more then one hit to break it. As time went on they actually started to rivet it to the backing along with lacing it.
"An armor that you can easily make."
'Easy' is the furthest thing in my mind when I watch that! :) You need to be amazingly patient to create a full armor like that... But the result seems to be definitively worth it. Lamellar armor looks amazing to me, it's a bit sad that it's so "ignored" by the armor-loving community at large!
Thank you for the great video!
@mistermistersmith I'm glad U found the Tut helpful. I would like to see your piece when it's done.
@amylea122 the plates varied. The smallest, being an 1-1/25 inches, the largest are 2 inches. That curiass has been worked on for years but if I actually sit down and work everyday probably 3 to 4 months.
@Aserox Very true about gamberson, been to lazy to make one. As for buying the plates true but like making maille. I perfer making my own because I can alter the sizes to fit different aspects of my body. I used smaller plates for my upper body because of movement. I made them larger as I got lower since they hung and didn't need to be closer to my body, but your right it dose save time espically when you don't have rrom for a work shop.
Your right, espically about the lacing, & when I do a suit of samurai armour I'll follow that type. What I'm doing here is the late Roman/early middle age so it will follow different style.
@Tskimmo When U said that my pits were exposed I went back to look for it, tinking, "oh god. The truth is out that I'm a true brute." I actually rewatched the video twice before it dawned on me that U were talking about the suit & not my personal hygene. So, yeah, if you notice I'm the smart one of my family :).
Actually, it was the other way around. Many times they would wear the Lamellar over the maille. The reason was to give themsevles protection from piericing attacks, since that's maillie's biggest weakness.
@zachr121 Not really but if thats all you have go for it just be careful not pull to hard. I've learned each time you pull the lacing through a hole it frays it a little and after a while that fraying adds up. If you want better lacing check out a Tandy leathers I think they've got thicker leather lacing.
@jgn69 Well like I said I loved how you made the helm. But, I'm really impressed by the rifles you made out of wood. This will help me save some serious money if, and when, I decided to attempt to do a war scene of some sort in the future.
@AyraWinla Thank U for watching it. Yes, I agree that it's a shame everyone is so hung up mail when this type of armor actually gives better protection, espically if your into SCA tourtaments when you're getting hit by blunt force, something that mail was not made for.
Nice tutorial, i don't have the place to do such a thing but in the future ;)
Nice Work!
This was reeeeally helpful. Thanks loads.
@zachr121 Thats cool. I didn't know about boiling nylon rope. I need to try that, plus it's probably cheaper then buying actually leather lacing. I also used 16 gauge. I find 20 gauge to thin. I would sugget 18 gauge. It's lighter then 16 but not as "flimsy" as 20 gauge.
awesome tutorial! hope to see more in the future :)
wicked videos.. such a great technique.
Love the video. How feasible do you think this would have been to produce on a mass scale in the byzantine empire? I'm doing a bit of reading and it seems as if this was the standard armor of choice for that empire. But how effective do you reckon it would be against the weapons of that day? My guess would be very because it dispers the blow throughout the armor and through many pieces of metal. Any comments would be greatly appreciated.
@Schuler001 you are welcome what designs did you like ?
Very cool video.
Cool video! Great work!
@xfootballer81 Like you said Byzantine was an empire so to produce a large amount of armor would not have been a problem for them. Plus, it's not unheard of a piece of armor seeing service for decades. Your right lamellar was probably the best armor out there, unlike ring maille it could take blunt force tramua & it was easy to repair if damaged. It did have it's draw backs, it was more restrctive & to much damage to the leather lacing would make it ineffective in a fight
thank you for showing this, I finally understood how to lace it ;D
how many pieces did you cut out and what are the dimensions?
@DarthMorbius1977 Cool. Now I have two options to use for lacing besides leather. Thanks
could the armor be held together by rings instead of leather lace?
Im several years late, but ultimately maille rings can be used instead of lace, but then it becomes plated maille, made famous by India, rather than the typical middle eastern or northern asian lamellar
@Tskimmo Yes but if I went up any further the lamellar would bit into me and would make movement very uncomfertable. Thats the reason why people would wear a thick cloth jacket, leather, or even maillie. All armor has faults nothing is perfect.
How easy is it to modify? If I wanted to start out making a vest, could I add shoulders and tassets later?
I know. I'm just stating what I've read in history but also what reanactment groups have shown. You might be right some guys might have worn Lamellar under their maille. We really don't know.
Glad to help out.
would the same thing be able to be dont if your making a leather version? iv seen it doe...i think.... anybody know a good way to cuy realy thick leather?
@furrymaster69 Yeah you can make it out of leather. The basic pattern can be used with either medium. As for cutting heavy leather it depends on the leather. If it's 8-9 oz. a pair of heavy sheers will work anything thicker a jigsaw. If you go to a leather company, like Tandy, they have specilized knives to cut thick leather.
Using a Whitney punch would be a lot easier than a drill.
Would a strong, easy workable wire be better than the leather cord?
@triggersots4686 Glad you liked it and thanks for watching I've done for Scale armor if you have a chance check it out. Also I'll be uploading one about making Segmenta greaves
Just use chainmail to connect the plates.in rivited mail it will be much stronger than lace.if an enemy cuts the leather your plates get compromised.chainmail is tougher.but if your just making mock armor its fine as is
How about scale-mail on top of a piece of lamellar? now, i know it would be pretty fucking heavy and impractical, but wouldn't you be able to circumvent most weaknesses armour tends to have?
@Schuler001 ha thats funny, your under arms are always a week spot in armor even in chainmail you cant get it to line up 100% because they go it different direction
@jgn69 I did and that was cool. I also checked out a few of your other creations. I would like to use some of your desgins if possible.
@ProjectMytheOdin Honestly I don't know how much lacing I go through. I used to buy those large spools of lacing from art stores, AC Moore, Michaels, etc., & just use it until I had no left. It might actually be 5ft. but I'm not sure.
nice video, I hope you make more
i got one question, so.. let's say You are into reenactment swordfighting, and ur lamellar armor gets hit with blade, and one or more laces get cut. is that a big problem since everything is connected with strings?
so how do i go about "roseing the center bit"
You make it look easy 🙂
how much would you charge for something like this?
How did you mount the shoulder and back pieces? The whole suit in general. I would like to see that. Are the parts differently made?
I just used some 8-9 oz. leather. Just cut them to fit over my shoulders. Then marked some holes, punched them and laced the front and back to it. Nothing really amazing really.
Nice lamellar. Making all those plates must have been quite time consuming though.
xI2ei it was. the suit that's seen at the end of this video was my first suit. It took me about a year of on and off work. Now, I can pretty much wipe together a suit in about a month
we carry plates in T6 6061 aluminum as well as 22ga hardened brass at ebonwoulfe (dot) com go to the armory link, then the lamellar link. we punch the plates so they are perfect every time. ive been using your video for lacing instruction to our cutomers who dont know how to do it. good work.
regards
logan
just out of curiosity how thick was lamellar known to be historically, is it the same as your process or would it be thicker because the Armour looks like it can protect against some arrows but doesn't seem that it would match the descriptions of historians describing warriors looking like porcupines.
Thanks anyway for the video.
Mohsen Stirling The porcupine imagery was more about crusader Maille. The Maille, along with the thick padding made the middle eastern short composite bow nearly useless against the crusaders. Off the top of my head I don't know the historically thickness of Lamellar but it was probably less then an inch thick as the overlapping of the metal plates is what gave it strength.
Schuler001 Less than an inch thick? No human alive is going to be walking around in a vest of 1" thick or even 1/2" thick steel plates! Not even 1/4"! I have not handled any museum pieces, don't have historical specs, but i suspect that what you said at the end of your presentation holds an important insight into how thick the metal was. If the weak point was the stitching, then at a certain point more development in thickness of plates would give diminishing returns because this will not remove it's Achille's Heal -the organic laces, & how tight they could be strung against each other. In other words, no matter how hard you make the plates, there is always the same gap. When you incorporate heat hardening, my suspicion is that you are just about right on thickness at 18 to 14 gauge steel, and certainly no more than 12. I can't back this up with historical evidence, this is just what makes sense to me out of intuition when i handle various thicknesses of steel sheets.
Quick question: Shouldn't the lamellar layers be other way around? As in, right now you have the outermost row at the bottom, whereas it would make sense that it would be on the top. If it was on top, any blow coming from above would glide downwards without hindrance, much like on the fish scales, but since you have the bottom rows on top of the upper ones, a blow would land like pulling backwards on the fish scales... and thus a blade is more likely to catch on the armor and tear it.
You do have a point, but all the references I've seen from history this is the most common style that was used. I do believe what you're mention might have been attempted but no evidence of it has been found. Of course, now, I want to try that and see what happens.
The armor is built this way so a spear point from a footman wouldn't get betwen the plates of a horseman, so you can argue that this is a cavalry man armour.
However, mounting the plates the other way wouldn't realy benefit you if you were on foot, since the angle a spear or sword point would strike isn't high enough the get betwen the plates.
It also tends to be more flexible towards the belly and hips if you mount it like this, helping with running around and figthing.
You could.
If i use aluminum and caste the plates, will they be as effective as the steel ones?
Aluminum is a softer metal, so I dont think for combat reasons it would be.
Do you have any template with mesures and hole circ. on picture?
No I don't. This was before I started making templates to keep on file. Do a Bing/goggle search they have a ton of templates floating around.
yes i understand
you dont round them up?
Why I still feel like it is more difficult to produce than chain mail???
why not use chainmaile links? it would be a million times easier,plus nothing would cut itself and it wouldnt fail apart randomly during mid combat,as funny as that would be
@ballerking400 That would be great.
@Tskimmo Damn evolution
think i just found Napoleon Dynamite making armor.
Wuts is lamenar?
@Aserox crazy expensive! buying is only realistic if your doing repair.
your arm pits are very exposed?
You need to work on your finish quality, and your fitting. Also, mail will protect against the majority of attacks, slashing will never pierce it, thrusting will rarely pierce it, and even bludgeoning will be significantly mitigated. Mail armor was used around the world for over a thousand years, because it worked, and it worked well. Bursting the rings on proper riveted mail is no easy task. Also, yes a well placed upward thrust can penetrate between the overlapping an staggered scales on a leather backed scale armor, but the same can be said of late medieval plate armor, and a well placed inward angled thrust will penetrate that lamellar. The difference between the scale armor and the lamellar armor is that after you've slipped between the plates, you still have to penetrate the thick leather backing of the scale armor to actually wound your opponent. All armor should be worn over some form of padding, but there is one prime rule of armor. The more flexibility you have, the less you'll be protected. Lamellar is great armor, but it is not superior to scale armor or mail. It was popular because it was relatively easy to make, and thus somewhat inexpensive when compared to other armors of the era, that's why common soldiers of around the 12th century (when Lamellar, Scale Armor, and Mail were all in fairly common use) wore lamellar, the somewhat wealthier professional soldiers tended to outfit themselves with scale armor, and the much wealthier noble knights tended to wear the much more expensive and significantly more protective mail.
and again! (cit.)
if you want more viewers - learn to edit.
the clip is way too long for what you show.
u look angry at start of the video -.-
+Boyar I'm always angry, or at least annoyed most of the day.