No Frills 440 on the Dyno
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- čas přidán 30. 06. 2024
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waiting to see georges six cylinder on the dyno great video
Thanks. But it might be a little while. Got to take care of the customer engines. 👍
We will start protesting Nick c'mon..lol
My first MOPAR was a 1968 Dodge Charger 440 with Automatic have to tell you that thing was a Tire Melter My top speed was 149 mph . Brakes really Stinked 4-Drums from 149 to slow down took almost 1-mile Scared the Hell out of me 😮 wish I still had Her !
I knew aguy that had a 1966 Dodge Polara with a stock 440. He had no problems breaking the tires loose and buried the speedo beyond 120 mph. That was a fun car to ride in.
Thas wahy Detroit went banrupted
they keep doing truck engines in cars, even knowing that was wrong
7.2 liters and Power, 280 hp
@@user-wv1pj6wh4h ...The government regulations made power go down,thats why engines had lower power 1972-on..They were not truck engines as 440's etc were put into cars before trucks and vans!
Detroit was the same as Japanese and European cars your Japanese car had 50 hp and a 6 cyl European car had 120 hp and a European(Mercedes) V8 had only 180 hp!
So it wasnt just Detroit it was like today we are being forced by the Government to have electric cars and no gas or diesel engines!
Yep, a factory 66 440 had more power than this engine tested a mid 70's smog 440..I own and owned many C body 440 cars and a few with the high performance 440's...They would spin the tires from a 15-20 mph roll and beat muscle cars etc..
My 1967 Dodge Polara 500 with a 440 Magnum(they had a 350 non high performance and a high performance Magnum 375 hp underrated)..The 350 hp used a tiny 595 cfm Holley the High performance used a 750 carter..I owned many c bodies with the 350 hp and they would haul butt..If I kept that car I added duel exhaust and a bigger holley or carter carb I liked 750-850..850 Carter seemed like a 750 holley(guess holley made more power nonetheless)..
At 16 I worked at a Ford dealer in 1986 and my 67 Polara ate every 5.0 Mustang they had, coupe, hatchback 5 speed, automatic..I even blew away a 87 LX coupe(lightest version) with the dealer added off road exhaust and 3.73 gears!! The boss wasnt too happy with me lol(we got along great)..I also had a 66 Galaxie 500 with a 390 4bbl and no match for the 440 or even a 383!! I always bought and sold cars since 14 years old,still today..not 14 but buy/sell cars lol
Pierre will love that smooth 440 in his Monaco.
That engine sure sounds crisp for a no-frills build. Love that it’s going into what looks to be a ‘66 Monaco. My first car was a rusted out ‘66 Polara 4 door with a 318. Good stuff!😎
There is no shame in this engine build with the stock cam. The difference will be driving the car. The off the line start will be amazing with its automatic transmission. One of the joys of an original car, factory setup is the smooth ride, and PULL through the midrange. Sometimes in the quest to build for more power, we steal the soul of the car. The Monaco is a passenger car, and a fresh engine is exactly what the car needs to drive like it did when new, with its soul intact!
ypu dont make power from a engine originnally built,, forget it
375 hp was pretty awesome back then!
Hydraulic cam and lifter failure has been an epidemic in the U.S.A. Look up Powell Machine, on youtube. He checked Rockwell hardness on hydraulic cams and lifters. Rockwell hardness was fine, on cam and lifters. Under high magnification, he found the problem was the machining of the lifter face. Not uniform at all. The lifters could not spin on the cam lobes.
I saw some videos of possible old/used lifters being reused! They came new in the box. After two bad flat tappet cams and lifters I went to hydraulic roller with no problem. One of my bad flat tappet lifters had the entire top ground off in forty miles.
Since the lifters sit off center, the cam should always turn them, Not?
@@bigblockjalopy They should rotate, yes. A bad grind on the face would prevent that.
@@riccochet704 of course they should rotate, but since the lifters sit offset (Not centered over the lobe), the Cam should always rotate them. This is why the lifters are offset. It would be difficult to produce a lifter or cam that prevents that.
It is still necessary for the lifters to be crowned and the cam lobe to be machined on a compatible angle. It’s so critical on the BBM that Chrysler used unique angles on the Six Pack engines.
Thanks Nick for a stock 440 run. I rebuilt a 75 440 motorhome engine for my 86 Ramcharger, Used a very slightly bigger than stock cam from Crower and Johnson Cam Saver lifters. Got headers and dual exhaust. Edelbrock intake like yours, Thermoquad that came on the engine. very pleased with the power over the stock 360/4 bbl that came on it. I wondered how much horsepower it made. Now I have a very good idea. I wanted a stump puller, not a radical race engine. I have that now.
I have built two GTO 400 engines with a new cam, both of them successful builds. The one my brother owns has 62,000 miles on the engine, and still running as strong as ever.. zero oil consumption. I am by far no expert, but simply followed instructions, made sure the carb bowl had fuel, timing set to run (within a few degrees) ready to fire up immediately. I did not run special oil, just simple Castrol 10W-30. I varied the rpm from 1800 to 2200 per instructions for 30 minutes. I changed the oil. Then drove the car 500 miles to break in the engine, regular driving! The rings were loaded briefly by (occasional) short acceleration runs through first and second. This promotes (brief) higher loading for proper break in at temperature. BTW the GTO engine has a 192 degree thermostat, still has a 192 thermostat. Many will shrug at this, that it's too hot. But the engine likes it, the pistons like it.. It's critical that the pistons are expanded to roundness, as engineered. When we think 160F coolant temp adds more power, (and it does by less intake heat soak) the consequence will be scored skirts, incomplete combustion, carbon buildup (abrasive) power loss after not too many miles = ultimate power loss! A street engine is not a race engine that gets rebuilt every 10 to 20 races. (in such case run 160 degrees)
I am not the expert, but cool intake temp, HOT chamber makes more power. The mixture does not lose any density, but vaporizes more completely in the chamber before ignition, requires less spark advance. Flame propagation is faster and more complete, cleaner combustion and more power. my two cents!
100% correct. Running an engine cold wears out pistons big time. Like many i run my race engines at 185-190 and the pistons last a long time. And make more power as well as the difference between 160 and 190 is 1-2 thou bigger pistons not rocking and maybe 2 thou tighter ring gaps.
I have raced with the temp at 220 with no issue. [Hot day and no air moving] Get much hotter though and you will scuff pistons and possibly zero gap rings. I do use synthetic oil however which takes the heat better. Hydraulic cams though need very precise care these days.
Srock replacement cams sjhould not need running in,,they never were from factory. Though I recomend it and all non roller cams. Soft valve springs help a lot as well
What you write about coolant temp and cylinder wear makes a lot sense to me and confirms my intuitive suspicions. I figure the manufacturers moved away from 180F for a reason. [And sometimes a thermostat rated for 180F doesn’t really open until 196/7F, as I discovered.]
Good afternoon Nick & George. Happy Canada Day from deep in the heart of Texas. A stock 440 for a 66 C-body Monaco on the Dyno. You don't see many of them around anymore. Always something different to see at Nick's Garage. I hope you guys have a great week. Here We Go!!!
Right on! Thanks Eugene. And an early happy 4th of July to you!
@@NicksGarage Thank you George. I'm going to cook something on the grill, and have a couple of cold ones.
Back when new my Dads best friend had a 66 Monaco 383.
The only one I ever remember seeing. They WERE RARE.
My Dad had a 64 Polara 500 383-4/ 727. 👍
G'day Eugene,
Hope you are well.
Hope you are staying cool.
Cheers
Louis Kats 👍 🇺🇸 🇦🇺
@@louiskats5116 G,day Louis, All is well here except for the heat which is always excessive in July. We are staying cool, so no worries. I hope that your weather hasn't been getting you down. Take care, buddy. Cheers.
My first MOPAR was a 1968 Dodge Charger 440 automatic stock It was a tire melter fastest I went was 149 mph took me about 1mile to slow it down had 4 wheel Drums scared the heck out of me wish I still had Her !
Mine was a 68 RT, but I put 3.91s out back, so it topped out about 115-120. But I ran 13.30s at 106 on street tires, thru the mufflers!
Drums are hard to beat. Especially with a stick.
@@dbx1233 drums work very well specially if manutetntion are not avoided..
I had a 72 Challenger Rallye 340 w/ 3.55 rear did 125 @. 6,000 RPMs that’s all she wrote!
Anyone know when Carlisle is?
When its a Chrysler Nicks really in his Chi/Zen.
I just read through the comments. Funny so many folks don’t seem to comprehend what they hear. You told them simple build. Street cruiser. Stock cam. And yet they are here diagnosing an engine that is doing what it was built to do. You are tuning to massage out every hp it has with this mechanical set up. I know your customer will be pleased with the results.
Thas wahy Detroit went banrupted
they keep doing truck engines in cars, even knowing that was wrong
7.2 liters and Power, 280 hp
Love seeing the 440 setup for stock specs run on the dyno . An ol Legend The 440 !!!!!
Thank you for this video. Another great dyno test/tune day.
NICE ENGINE!
This engine's gonna put a smile on the owner's face!
I hope so!
Chrysler Blue is such a pretty color 👍
When I used to build engines with flat tappet cams I used the 10w-30 no synthetic the engine came with from the factory and I would run it up to 2000 rpm for 30 minutes and never had a cam failure . The newer engines I build differently but for the old 60s and 70s engines I just did it old school .
I break in varying RPMs at 1500 - 2500 to avoid damage from one frequency sympathetic vibrations... more work than one RPMs level, but less work than cleaning the engine back up and starting over with another cam...
NICK,
When Chrysler made marine engines the first 440's were rated at 300 hp at 4000 rpm and the later and more popular versions were 330 at about the same rpm. CR was between 8-9 to 1 and mild flat tappet cams with a 4 barrel AFB carburetor. Chrysler also made some marine 6 pack 440's rated at 375 hp. Cast iron marine exhaust log style manifolds tend to be restricted in flow compared to the better cast iron auto exhaust manifolds. Chrysler made complete marine engines in house. Other marine engine builders bought base engines that were specifically designed for marine use and added the marine hardware. Mostly Chevrolet and Ford based engines. When Chrysler stopped making 440's and they still had a call for a large displacement marine engines they bought 460 Ford base engines and did the marine conversions. These were rated at about 360 hp at about 5000 rpm. Chrysler did not include an oil cooler which everybody's big blocks always came with. One friend burnt up 1 engine in a cruising boat and that's when I realized no oil cooler. Had the engine rebuilt and filled it with
15W- 50 Mobil 1 synthetic. He sold it before I got around to installing Oil coolers. The 15-50 Mobil 1 was a new product and it handled the high oil temperature.
It's awesome to see the master at his craft. Thanks, Nick always a pleasure.
Our pleasure!
I know you wanted the claimed factory hp number, but that's a big smooth engine you've built👍🏻
sounds like a work horse as it was intended
to çput in a truck, cause in a old vontage car it will make it get out of the road is not good for hight speeding
@@user-wv1pj6wh4h low end torque for heavy cars is best so a work horse
Hi Nick. Great 440 video. Happy Canada Day!
Thanks! You too!
Back to MoPars. Don't forget the recent Chevy Big Blocks, Olds small and big blocks, other brand engines too that Nick has dynoed as well. Nick's equal opportunity dyno service
One sweet 440 and didn't do to badly thus far either Nick for a cruiser. Have a beaut week Nick and all.
I think that's a great idea doing the oil after 10 min. Makes sense to me. But I am no certified mechanic. Cheers Nick 🍻
That big ole 440 will lug that car around just off idle and make it feel peppy with the monster torque it makes.
yu an put a caterpillar engine in your car...
@@user-wv1pj6wh4h You've put several "gibberish" replies on this vid that make no sense. Learn to spell.
@@shanew.williams caterpilalrs diesel have alot of toque...
Happy Canada day nick an George an crew always love see 440 on dyno
Happy Canada Day!
happy Canada day Nick! thanks for another great video!
You too! Thanks for watching!🇨🇦
Nick, You have done many high performance dyno runs. This is a stock engine, doing very well. Admit it, you're done. Great job!
This engine will be a perfect match for the car it is going in!!
I haven't done 1/100th of the engines/cams you have Nick, but I just always used the moly di-sulfide break-in lube that came with the cams and/or lifters and never had a problem. I know old guys that swear by silver Nevr-Seize on cam lobes and lifter bases.
Perfect reliable engine for the car Great build
Great numbers for a cruiser Nick. Excellent running engine. Smooth, quiet, lots of vacuum. Bravo!
Wow, that motor is smooth!! Very nice Nick....
Great low-end torque. Happy Canada Day!
Thanks! You too!
Part of the cause of the high oil temperature during break in is the thick factory sized piston rings. I'm sure you notice on the modern engines with the thin metric ring pack like the GM LS engines that it takes considerably longer to get heat in the engine.
Nick by the mid 70's the 440 was making 195 hp Net. That would be around 280 Gross. if you look, it still is pulling 445 lbs ft of torque.
20:48 Nothing wrong with those numbers, it'll be a great engine for cruising.
No frills but this 440 will pay its bills A reliable lump steady and stout Plenty of power to haul a big car about From London I'm sending a big shout out Thanks Nick Word to ya brother George
I think I would rather have a 440 or 440-6 pack than a HEMI lighter just my opinion !
Me too, hemi parts are extra expensive and hard to get. 440-6 pack any day of the week 👍
Great Job Nick and George!!!!! And 440!!!!!
That is about right for bone stock. I personally couldn't build it that stock but whatever the customer wants I guess. A little more cam, performance valve job and thinner head gaskets would really make it up.
Nick, Todays biggest reason flat tappet cams fail is because of increased spring pressure. Look up factory spring pressures and you'll see. BBC chevy guy here for 40 years. I do all my own work. Any spring over 100psi closed is too much.
Yeah Nick, I'm not used to having a 440 on your dyno that is so quiet and smooth. Cool video - Thanks!
Nick, ya know whatever numbers you get, ya gotta subtract about 40 for the stock manifolds and water pump.
It might be a stock cam setup but it still sounds GREAT!
I've been wondering about something for years and I have to finally ask. There is a small brown box with the Mopar "M" on it in the window sill in the Dyno room and I'm curious what's inside. 😁 Nice happy lil 440 there too! Another great video as always!
Uncle Tony measured the taper of a few sets of lifters and their was none. It doesn't rotate so it's just sits in place and wipes.
Ohhhh I want to see that car!
Nick, take an old set of valve covers and cut a window on the pushrod side so you can watch to see if the pushrods are spinning. Place a spot of white paint on them so when they spin around as they should, you will know all is well, then put the regular unmodified valve covers on to finish the break in. Yes it's messy, but don't you think it's worth the piece of mind?
Any Engine from Nick would be great! Youre lucky to have an MASTER on the east coast!!!!
Questions about best oil and amount of Zinc or other additives in the break in oil are questions for Lake Speed Jr the engine oil geek on YT. He has a lot of data on the subject.
It's a laid back engine, et even sounds laid back. Just all a little nitrous when needed.
Awesome run not bad at all keep them coming and see you Monday
Evenin Mr George an Mr Nick! Happy Canada Day and have a great week!!
Thanks Pappy. Happy Canada Day!
🔔😎
1966 had closed chamber heads.
Thicker head gaskets hurt squish/ quench and hurt power a little.
Sounds great responds right now lol
Stock mid 70's 440 did make 235hp. If you get 100 more with just aftermarket intake, loyal carb and headers, you are not doing anything wrong.
Hi from Finland
Happy Canada Day Nick! Love the show!
Thanks so much!
Happy Canada Day ! Enjoying your show from Trenton, Michigan.
Awesome. Thanks for watching!
@@NicksGarage Your show makes me miss my 1970 429SCJ Torino and 1986 Grand National. My 1966 Lemans and Cadillac too. Keep up the good work.
Very nice! Smooth operator!
looks and sounds perfect Nick
Surprising on the results here. On a stock 440 8.5:1 compression, stock cam with 1-7/8" primary tube headers and a Holley HP 750 cfm as used here, this engine should make 370-380 dyno hp
No way a low compression 8:1 motor will make anywhere close to 380HP, and this video is proof. 330HP for this motor is pretty disappointing though, I'd guess 9.5:1 compression given the stated 170PSI cylinder pressure.
@@MoparStephen Again, with headers and that Holley HP 750 that 440 should make much more than 330 hp
The cylinder pressure is based off cranking compression this cam is small enough and depending on its specs it could build fairly high cranking psi on a low static compression engine I don't know much about Chrysler engines but some of the high performance big block Chevys in the '60s with 12 to 1 compression the cams were so big they had around cranking 150 psi cylinder pressure
Stock lazy cam lobes, stock or close to stock valve springs, you should have no problem.
Cam cores are made in basically one place and have been for decades. US Made lifters that Powell Machine tested were on spec for hardness.
There are three factors against the modern flat-tappet cam. 1. Much more aggressive lift profiles stress the cam/lifter interface much more than OEM. 2. Stiffer valve springs are required to control the valve train motion of these new, aggressive cams, increasing the stress even more. 3. Modern oils have much lower percentage of antiwear additives, because of catalyst poisoning and also because modern valvetrains are nearly 100% roller. It's important to remember that the cam/lifter interface is the most highly stressed of the entire engine.
My first Mopar I've owned was a 77 Cordoba with a 400 Big Block. Then I had a 69 Valiant with a 225..
.444 lift is still bigger than my stock 396 lift of .398! That there is a “performance” cam! 😛
Happy Canada Day from Adelaide, South Australia
Thanks mate!
Happy Canada Day Nick and George and The Crew 😀😊😇
Thank you!
Greetings Nickolaki from Adelaide Australia.
Thanks for the visit, Steve! Yassou
5:33 ... I was going to use a flat tappet cam but decided on the Comp Cams HE295HL for a 496" stroker I had built here in So. Cal. This was literally 20 years ago in 2004 and at the time that cam was new and I wanted to try a hydraulic on the stroker. Going from memory it dyno'd at 576 HP and around 600 TQ and the engine builder was pleased with the power. 10.5:1 with mildly ported Edelbrock RPM heads, the Victor heads weren't even available yet. I never finished the '70 pro-street cuda do to health issues and shelved the project. Maybe someday it'll get finished if I'm still above ground lol.
the 350 hp and 480 lbs feet of torque was 1966 - 1970
What really would have been interesting would be to put a stroker crankshaft in this and keep everything else stock
Please Nick ask Pierre if you can road test his Monaco. This is my dream car of all times.
Those are good numbers for a stock build tons of torque low down perfect for a cruiser
Happy Canada Day ...Nick...🇨🇦....that well perfect for a big "C-body" to cruise around...great content and thanks...🔧🔧👍
Right on! Thank you.
Thanks Nick great video 👍👍
. Can't wait to see you at Carlisle. 👍. 66 barracuda.
nick my 1969 440 is 0.030 over stock cam,434/430 lift with a 650 edelbrock avs2,165 lbs copression in each cylinders 906 heads with hardened seats in the exhaust with factory iron intake and the stock distributor recurved with a total of aprox 40 degrees with vacum advance. i run 91 octane with marvel mystery oil in the tank. that build is probably something like what i have in my coronet. and it goes like the dickens. mondays are always the best when you especially have got a 440 on that dyno. are you going to carlisle pennsylvania next week. if so ill be looking for you.
i was low on money coming from louisiana trip to galveston. i turned her lean all out and timing adjusted for fuel. i stopped to check oil headers glowing red. 14 to 16 mpg if not better 750 vacuum secondaries.. i richened up when i got home no damage.
My first new car was a 1970 Duster 340 with automatic disk brakes. I got a 340 from a late 1969 Cuda with a 6 pack.....I know they say it didn't exist but I got it from a friend that owned a wrecking yard and removed the engine and trans myself. It had 2700 miles on it
Interesting.
If that car had that motor in it you might want to look into buying the car it might be a unicorn and worth a million dollars
@@joshholden8561LOL!!...
Chances are, that was a Loo ng time ago. His FIRST CAR..340 with 2700 miles. Do the math
Ah....gatineau....just across the river from me!!
I love them rattle can rebuilds
If it had the 66 compression ratio pistons it would be a horse of a different color.But if the pistons are that of a mid 70s block then it’s (1/4 inch below deck)it’s doing good since they were only putting out 200 to 260 net.
here we go on Canada day.
🇨🇦❤️
We had a 68 Dodge charger RT I got it to run 175 mph with a mildly built 440 but I had to install a bigger fuel line from the tank up to the fuel pump because it would run out of fuel at around 140 this was back in the 70s
And happy Canada 🇨🇦 day too
Thank you!
You bet!
Great content thanks for sharing
sure runs smooth!
Happy Canada Day!
hi nick good ep did not know they had a reg 440 ci engine you did good.
I think it's the lack of hardness on the metal on the camshaft that makes them wear out fast or go bac during break in
The last time I checked you cannot braek a hydraulic cam in with inner spring still in it. Make a full pull with your RPM range and adjust AF. Five pulls later you will know what timing the motor likes. I have never seen a dbl pumper on a factory type Mopar.
When I break them in I always make sure I have the timing extra Advanced so the engine runs as cool as possible, should hit at least 45° timing at 2000 RPM with no load maybe even a little more timing
Beautiful engine
330 hp 444tq nice 440 Nick. It will definitely get the job done if the owner wants to let it rip. Shift at 5100 and then tote the mail 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻.
Happy Canada Day Nick.
Giasou Nikola,
Sorry I have been absent just alot going on with sick family members & lots of running around for my elderly parents & my partner mum & unfortunately it is so time consuming but life & everyone getting better.
I was just thinking the Monaco most probably has highway gears in the rear 2:73.1 ratio so doing 2700 rpm at 100 kph.
So as long as Max torque starts at 1400 rpm all way to 3200 rpm you couldn't ask for a better cruiser.
Isn't going to overheat, plenty of vacuum & lots of longevity.
With all the traffic these days on the road you have to be brave to really open it up full throttle these days on the street, especially here in Victoria, Australia with getting your car impounded.
Hey Nick a friend of mine is cleaning out his garage and has a 383 2BBL for sale if you know anyone I can arrange to get posted out your way.
Peace, Love & Muscle Cars
Cheers
Louis Kats your number 1 Fan in
Melbourne, Australia 🇦🇺 👍 🇨🇦
Nice engine,,🎉 what happened to Old weekey 383?
An update will be out next week.👍
I think, at the bare minimum, the engine needs a cam swap. A high torque grind will still idle well.
Could advancing the camshaft help in a scenario like this?
Chinesium cam cores................. I wont run a tappet cam in any engine anymore and I haven't had a lifter failure. Just not worth the risk to me. Then again I went a little crazy on Morel bushing solid rollers and billet custom cam from Bullet racing cams. 385 stroker, 10.83:1 final compression, bullet solid roller, brodix dragon slayer heads, holley strip dominator and 600hp on pump gas on the dyno. ;o)
"440 HEMI TIME!" Testing time is enjoyable.
It's a Soap Opra for men! Give me a cup of coffee and a Tim Horton doughnut, and I'm good! Or a Loose Moose beer and a hotdog and be satisfied. Or some of Nick's private stock of Uzzo in the shop, and I'm drunk seeing the world upside down!😂
I wish Nick had the curiosity to build a 4 cylinder Hemi Toyota 22R engine from engine parts from L.C. ENGINEERING Catalog, in Lake Havasue, Az., just for kicks, shits, and giggles. Nick has never built or done a 4 cylinder engine for his dyno machine before. Paint the engine HEMI orange and the valve cover crinkle black and call it "HALF'A'HEMI!"
🤣❤. It should rate at 220 H.P. or betters.
I challenge Nick to do this for CZcams ratings and something different.
Love this video, Nick! Plain and simple.
With the conservative camshaft and low compression the headers were not necessary for max power output. Who knows, the headers may have decreased power output some? Smooth running powerplant for sure.