Why do Some Native Speakers Hate your English?
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- čas přidán 5. 02. 2024
- Why is it that some native speakers don't like successful learners of English? On CZcams there are even channels dedicated to mocking the mistakes of non-native teachers of English. We explore.
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I am a non-native English teacher, and my accent reveals it as soon as I open my mouth. Before I became a teacher, I worked in the corporate world for many years, and found myself constantly proof-reading, correcting and improving the grammar, expressions and vocabulary choices of my English speaking colleagues, so much so that it became one of my main duties within the company. I live in an English speaking country with a dozen different local accents, where a couple of them are very hard to understand to other nationals of their same country. When I was studying to become an English teacher, the instructors always displayed blatant preference and special praise toward the native English students, based only on their native speakers condition, regardless of whether their teaching skills or test scores were better or not. Thank you for this video. It redeems us from the stigma, the fear and the frustration that those wrong appreciations put on us.
I found a couple errors in your comments. However, native speakers make mistakes all the time. I still won't learn Chinese from a non-native speaker, or any other language.
There's no stigma as long as you're honest about your language skills. Just tell your students that you're there for them to give them a solid foundation in a way that is easier for them to understand and that you make mistakes too as a teacher and your students can correct you any time if they can prove they're right. That's a better way than being arrogant and pretend to know everything.
I make mistakes all the time when I have to write something down. Sometimes I make them on purpose to see if anyone notices or are they just mindlessly copying things down. I'm glad when students correct or challenge me and I thank them for paying attention and being active in the class. I believe that by challenging me, they will actually remember the stuff better as well as gain confidence in their own abilities rather than comparing it to unrealistic perfection...
Last week I had my 7 yo student come and correct my spelling: the class mostly see the word "practice" in worksheet titles, but this time I wrote: "Practise your 3 times table". I told that practice is a noun but practice is a verb. She looked doubtful so I encouraged her to look it up. In other words, she ended taking ownership of her study and spending more time learning English. And she is now brave enough to correct me without having to whisper it to my ear. 😊
I have had a similar thought. If you removed our native accent, often times it would sound like poor english haha. I live in a rural town in australia, it's not super bogan but our english is definitely not often the "right" to speak it.
@user-ov4wr5yu4r says someone who omits "of" in "couple of errors"; you're pathetic
Gideon, you are so great. Your moral principles and your grace are definitely unique
unique? I hope not. I'd call them copmmon sense & normal politeness :)
As a father I tried to teach my daughter but soon realised that a pressure I put on her during our English lessons is inevitably impacts our relations. So I searched for a private teacher and visited her first trial lesson. Her pronunciation was a bit awkward to me but her friendliness to a child (and very good recommendation from other parents also) defined my choice. She did in what I would have definitely failed - she fostered my daughter's interest in studying English. Many years gone since then and my daughter still is having an interest and studying English as a hobby. Now she admits that she could understand my concern I told her about back then as she clearly sees her shortcomings in a received pronunciation. But she also understands how good the teacher was who managed to involved her in studying the language.
Hi Gideon. Even though a native speaker, I often watch your videos. The information, insights, humor, and grace are appreciated. Carry on!
You're very welcome
@@LetThemTalkTVHopefully you would write me, I am a writer, chessplayer and a teacher. Greetings from the underground!
As a native ESL teacher, I agree with you. I've met great non-native teachers, and they work well with the beginner to upper-intermediate levels. Ironically, as a language learner (currently Spanish), I've gotten a lot of insight from a non-native Spanish teacher on CZcams. Come to find out, non-native teachers of your target language (who are native speakers of your language) can often help you overcome your difficulties a little better.
Interesting points, thanks
True. If you teach Spanish people you have no idea how vastly different their way of thinking is because of their language. If you know Spanish to a high degree - then yes, you know, but not many English native teachers know another language to a native level. I find contrastive approach very helpful, especially in the beginning, which allows students to see the differences and even be aware of them and having that mental approach in their heads. For example: in Polish we use only three tenses. We are less accurate about defining time than British and Americans are, since they have a lot of specific tenses for specific situations. We treat sky as a plain - on the sky, Br and Am treat it 3D - in the sky. Noticing these differences and ascribing them to your native and target language often helps in systematisation of the target language. Also, discovering intricacies is fun, thus easier to remember.
Non-native here working as an EAP teacher for a Russell Group uni. We are definitely not limited by level. It just has to do with putting the hours in to learn your craft. Let's not forget all foreign students who come to study in the English speaking countries and come with an IELTS 8 in some cases, were taught in their home countries by non natives.
I completely agree, my native language is Spanish. I tried to teach Spanish a couple of times and it was a shame, then I checked some channels of Americans teaching Spanish and they were wayyyy better than me at teaching Spanish. Funny thing, I actually consider myself good at teaching basic English
I'm often amused by how many Americans don't realize the number of countries where English is an official language. Native speakers of English come with lots of different accents. Some Americans also overlook how many accents and dialects there are within the US. I married a Kentucky boy while going to college on Lake Superior. My husband couldn't understand a word the bagger at the grocery said, and they couldn't understand his drawl. I worked for a small company with an international staff. I remember sitting in meetings translating English to English, among the Canadian, Mississippian, Indian, Mandarin, Cantonese, and Spanish speakers. How many ways can one say "project"? "Module"?
Many thanks for sharing that. You helped me believe my English skills.
@@aga8645 Man I worked in an international company in my country and I can assure you that they do not care about the way you speak. As long as you can understand and be understood you'll do just fine!
There's a CZcams channel (Americans) where they keep correcting non-native English teachers. A lot of the stuff they correct, is actually correct in other English speaking countries. On a different note, my Spanish accent used to be quite strong when I first moved to England and once I had to go to a chiropractor, who happened to be from France. I remember my then British husband having to translate between French accented English and Spanish accented English...too funny. Years later (after the split) I moved to the US and I went for dinner with him and another British friend of his while they were visiting. This time I was the one doing the translation from British to American English because the waiter couldn't understand them.
For example? 🧐 Writing the list of English speaking countries during recess was the punishment I gave naughty students. Perversely, they rather liked it since they spent recess with the native English teacher. 😊
Same goes to UK accents, and I would guess other countries, too, where English is spoken. There are certainly many American expressions I have never heard and I understand even fewer Australian ones, or their accents.
Respected Gideon, you are not only a good teacher of English but also a good human being. Certainly, in my lifetime, I would like to meet you. Regards from India.
I'd say native teachers are better for advanced learners who focus on ordinary, casual, day-to-day vocabulary and pronunciation to sound more natural. For other students it either does not matter or it is even better they have teachers who speak their native tongue. Such teachers are usually more trained in grammar and can explain it more easily in the students' languages.
My thoughts exactly.
You’re right.
I agree.
As long as they ARE teachers and not just native speakers backpacking throughout the country.
Exactly my thought! You are absolutely right, and I think language schools should distribute lessons this way.
Being Italian, when I study a foreign language I always buy a grammar book which is written for Italian students rather than for an abstract non-native speaker. It's so much easier to learn a foreign language, be it English or any other language, by following the traces of somebody who faced the same difficulties that I am facing now. It's all the set phrases, the use of verbs, which can be so different and misleading between Italian and English, the "false friends" etc.. A native English speaker typically doesn't understand or know Italian and doesn't understand how to properly translate certain Italian nuances in English, or how to translate a set phrase. The fact is, pronunciation apart, a good teacher who is a native speaker of your same language is a superior teacher of a foreign language. The only "advantage" the native teacher has is, in theory, the pronunciation. In practice, though, in English there is not any more a "cultivated" way to speak English (there is, but everybody pretends there is not) and the result is that if you get English lessons from a baker you will end up speaking English just like an English baker, and I don't say this to sound "classist", but a "native" pronunciation is not necessarily better than a cultivated foreign-tainted pronunciation, actually in a professional environment it is typically worse.
I'll be adding "piss and vinegar" to my list of binomials.
😂
Binomials? That's not a word I'm familiar with
@@samstromberg5593The channel has a video (and maybe more than one video) on "binomiale" such as "dead or alive", "fair and square", "checks and balances". Outside this channel, I only know binomial coefficients from Pascal's Triangle (but I studied math, don't worry if you don't know Pascal's Triangle 😅).
@@samstromberg5593 The channel has a video on binomiale (maybe now than one). Examples are "checks and balances" and "fair and square". (And now I hope that this comment is not banned by CZcams for using a forbidden word like my previous comment.)
@@ronald3836 I love Pascal's Triangle, learned about it in my 12th grade Math Class that I TA'd for
I'll check out his video thanks
Thank you for the encouragement. I'm a native German teaching German and English at a language school in the Middle East. It's easier for me to teach German because I simply "hear" what's wrong and what's right. However, I have loved and spoken English since childhood, read tons of books and studied the language at University, and thanks to many painful years of studying Latin, my grasp of grammar is passable. So let's hope I'm doing an okay job.
Gideon, what a great topic to bring up in your channel. I'm a language teacher. I teach both Spanish (my native tongue) and English.
A few years ago I was hired by a company in Spain to give a course in English pronunciation. I was surprised by the offer, and suggested to them that they hire a native speaker instead. Their reply was a life-changer for me. They said:
But we want you. You see, you know both English and Spanish pronunciation, and can compare them in detail. Most native speakers can't do that.
Then they finished off with: Besides, with you there's hope.
My impostor syndrome vanished into thin air, and a year later I set up an English teaching business.
How wonderful. I used to reach English and Spanish , both as foreign languages, and focussed on pronunciation a lot , or should I say, intonation, because there's the rub, isn't it?
God bless, Dios le bendiga. Best Regards.
It's puzzling to me how most English teachers don't pay much attention to pronunciation or, indeed, to intonation. I always say to my students: "The better your pronunciation is, the better you'll understand native speakers". And, I should add, with the wrong intonation you'll often convey the wrong message 😱
@@englishwithmaria, Hi, do you have a teaching program for people who want to learn how to teach? Are you a Coach? I am interested in learning how to teach. Thanks
I do! I am!
I'm a non-native teacher, and I suppose it' s the best choise for beginners to start learning English with someone who can speak their mother tongue.. first of all to be motivated and supported in proper way❤ thank you Gideon for honest and balanced talk, and you're so inspiring teacher
Definitely!! I started learning German with a lady who was a German and Spanish native speaker. (Her mother was Peruvian and her father German) She was pretty awesome because she would compare and try to teach the similarities between both languages so we can use it in our favour.
Thanks for this video Gideon. I'm a non-native ESL teacher and I tried for years to get a job at a language academy here in Spain (I'm from Latin America, which for some people makes things worse for some reason). Eventually I just started working as a freelance private tutor/teacher out of sheer frustration, and hope that word of mouth would do the rest. Forward 6 years and I'm turning students down, so I must be doing something right! Also, when I took the CELTA both my trainers said something very similar to what you're saying here, they were actually very encouraging. Both of them were native British English speakers.
It's discouraging to read that nothing has changed in Spain since I was there but I'm glad you found your own path to success. Best wishes
Good job about getting your CELTA. Keep an eye on the British Council website and apply when you find an opening. In Spain they are discriminating on the basis of your passport. You don't want to go there anyway.
Hi Gideon, I loved the story about your first job as an English teacher. And I'm so glad that we didn't lose you, but instead you trained yourself to become a truly knowledgeable teacher.
I have been following you for a while and frankly, I am amazed by your insight into the English language and how passionate you are about it.
You have even inspired my to share my own story in a nutshell:
I used to work as a non-native English teacher in Hungary and in Spain, and luckily I never felt being discriminated against due to not being a native speaker.
Interestingly, what I saw and what struck me when I was studying for my BA in English language and linguistics at a uni in London was that non-native students (Polish, French, Spanish and Hungarian (myself)) highly outperformed the majority of the native students in all subjects, even in phonology.
In general, based on my experience, I would say that advanced learners can benefit more from learning with qualified native teachers than non-native ones, however beginners can save a lot of time and accelerate their progress with a teacher who speaks their language quite well.
In my opinion, my biggest shortcoming as a non-native teacher was my accent (I started learning English when I was 25, as a result my native accent has had a huge influence on my English), but luckily now I have the opportunity to make it sound more neutral, needless to say, with a native teacher.
Oh and I live in Spain now and I absolutely love learning Spanish as an autodidact obviously with a mixed Hungarian and English accent.
To conclude I would say that whether one should consider a native or non-native teacher, depends on their language learning goals, their current level and of course their personal preference. What is crucial though irrespective of where the teachers are from is that they must be qualified and knowledgeable.
When I was taking Japanese language lessons at the community centre, I preferred the teachers who were not native Japanese speakers.
The native speakers had not the slightest idea what it is like to try to learn Japanese as an adult.
The non-native speakers could remember what that was like.
### *A video of righteousness & nobility* 👍👏
It takes a lot of courage, confidence and humility to share a story like that. Pretty funny and enlightening!
This is a fabulous piece of decency and honest.
I am really glad that you have touched on this topic. Thanks mate!
That's a great and very kind video. You've asked a question and I'll try to provide an honest and nuanced answer that depends on the objective.
- Objective: pick up the native accent. I've chosen to send my 2-year old to a foreign language preschool with native speakers until he turns 4 so that he can absorb the accent. Accents are better learnt at a very early age. Grammar can be acquired later.
- Objective: speak and write properly. Regarding the English language, I don't mind whether the teacher comes from Jupiter or Oxford. Further, as you pointed out, non-native speakers learn (English) grammar as part of learning the foreign language. I don't remember ever learning English grammar before finding your channel. I know so many non-native speakers that speak my native languages better than me (my parents for example).
As a non native English speaker trying to be a teacher I agree with you 😁
In my opinion, native speaker "teachers" are great in conversation classes, but for beginners a non native teacher could be more helpful. What I do want is that a teacher of language is in fact a teacher and knows how to teach 😊
BTW, your students (even the first ones) have been very lucky to had you as their teacher because you're adorable 🤗
Thanks for your comment my fellow teacher
I've studied French for foreigners when I was in Switzerland, and I can say that learn from zero a language without any support of your own language is not only the harder way to learn but also the more time consuming. For a beginner, I think a non-native speaker (and a speaker of your language) is more important, not only because they speak your language, but also because they understand where you are struggling, as certain languages have patterns that are harder to overcome when trying to replace to other pattern in a new language. If you are an advanced learner, a native speaker is better, because you are at a point to refine what you've learned.
You are a wise and good man
you are wiser and better
@@LetThemTalkTV 😉
Thank you so much for this video. I'm going through a rough time because I've been facing some career challenges connected to the 'issue' you addressed, and your insights have been incredibly helpful. I'm feeling better already, and hearing perspectives from 'the other side' has definitely given me food for thought.
In the comments you'll read many non-native teachers sharing their stories of overcoming tough challenges to have a successful career.
Greetings, Gideon. Back in 1999 - 2000, when I was still a bachelor student, I attended advanced English courses. I was told the teacher was non-native speaker. I didn't like that much. Later on, when I attended the first class, and the whole first week, I changed my mind. That was an excellent teacher! So, many times we have certain mental biases, but we must keep our minds open to change the paradigm. By the way, congratulations for your great channel! I'm still improving my English language skills, "day after day", as the Beatles' song says. Fry & Laurie also have helped me a lot. On the other hand, I'd rather gave up Japanese and German (should I make a greater effort, perhaps?). Cheers from Zacatecas city, Mexico, at the High Plains!
You have an excellent point. 🎉👍🏻
Dear Gideon, languages are the quintessence of communication, and communication is not speaking alone from a pedestal but speaking and answering with humans no matter the level.
The human ability to master foreign languages for survival equals the enjoyment to do so.
What makes an excellent speaker and teacher, is PASSION, and ABILITY to transmit the language to those who learn from that person.
If I could use an analogy, a native English speaker teacher would be the icing of the cake, the culmination of an in-depth and consistent learning process. As long as the students master the language at such a level that taking classes from a native speaker would really be a turning point (to the better) to their English. Back in the day (early 1980's till early 1990`s) I was fortunate enough to have excellent teachers of English that helped me shape my English the best way possible, and only in the last states of the course I was taking was it an actual benefit being taught by native UK teachers. Perhaps the focus now is on having a "branded", showcase sort of learning process (eye-catching materials and tech, native US or UK teachers, Instagrammable facilities, etc.) with a focus on a turnkey solution rather than asking the students to work hard to improve their English. Fireworks don't make a good astronaut.
Not only am I an English teacher who has worked in Vietnam since July, 2022, but I'm also a learner who wants to pass CPE. Some years ago I came to a conclusion that if you want to make a leap, to move to the next level, to work on idioms, phrasal verbs and so on, a native speaker is really needed. This is what happened to me when I came to Bristol to study and then passed CAE. I wouldn't go that far and say that it's impossible to do without natives but for me it was extremely helpful. That was a moment when I started to speak immediately, without thinking.
But if you look for some good level without being sort of flamboyant, a non-native is perfectly ok. For instance, one of my students successfully passed FCE 3-ish years ago. Another student got 8.0 for IELTS and so on.
Being a language learner, I have both native and non-native English teachers and they are all awesome.
So glad someone has put this out there! My ESL teaching journey has been so similar to yours, **** teacher to director of studies. Speakerism is a new term for me, but the concept is all too familiar. Sending support, admiration, and much love to all the rockstar non-native speaker teachers out there. It must be a bitter pill to swallow when they see a fresh graduate, with no experience, sweep in and proclaim that their knowledge of the language is superior and get a higher salary as well.
I wonder where you stand on using first-language instruction in the classroom when teaching a second language. Generally speaking, I think using first language instruction for grammar, for example, can avoid a lot of unnecessary confusion and really save a lot of time, especially at the elementary and intermediate stages of learning. Keep on keeping on, Gideon. I think you're marvelous!
Great video! I'm a non-native speaker of English with a passion for learning languages simply for the joy it brings me to use them. I must unfortunately confess that I tend to be 'native speakerist', although in practise I now essentially learn languages on my own. Capturing the music of the language-and being able to play it-is one of my greatest pleasures. Very few non-native speakers can convey the music of a language completely right. Having said that, I 100% agree with the fact that there is no correlation between being a good teacher and being a native speaker of the language taught. I do not understand the attitude of a company demanding native speakers to teach English to their employees, all the more as teaching how to properly pronounce a language very rarely comes as a priority, especially in a professional context, in which immediate ROI is going to be what is expected.
Gideon, this is very honorable of you to point your own experiences out. I love your humbleness. That's what makes this channel very attractive.
Teachers with the same native language as the students may have a better understanding of the interference mistakes the students make since they know the way their native language works. Still, language teachers need a very good command of the language being taught.
Everybody makes mistakes, but they should be pointed out and corrected with no hard feelings.
Non-natives have not been exposed to decades of English culture, from Kindergarten onwards. This always shows in the ease of which natives can come up with examples, idioms, history, anecdotes.
As a student I find native speaker teachers to be more interesting but solely for the purpose of culture and conversation at an advanced level. As a beginner student in any given language I need a teacher of that language with knowledge of the grammar rules and knowledge of language teaching, regardless whether they are native or not. A while ago, I attempted to learn French. So I took private lessons with a couple of teachers. One was non native but she knew the language to perfection. She could explain everything to me. She also had near native pronunciation. The other was a native speaker of the language with no clue of any grammar rules. I thought that they both complimented each other. Both teachers were great and interesting. The native speaker knew more about the culture and the slang and had lots of personal stories to tell about his country. That was the main difference.
As a teacher, I was once hired to teach Spanish (my mother tongue) in an English speaking country. I freaked out because I didn't know the rules of my own language. I had to study hard before giving a lesson and anticipate the questions that my students might have. If I didn't know how to reply to a query I would simply apologise and promise to find an explanation for the following lesson. It was a quite challenging but rewarding experience.
The thing is, English no longer belongs just to the native speakers. It's the Lingua Franca of the world. I live in Berlin and communicate in English with my coworkers, friends and even parts of my family. I hardly know someone native. It is OUR international language and with all due respect we aren't worried too much what native speakers think of it
English is to be used when traveling and in business, and not as a second language of a nation that already has a native language, which is German! This is why most European countries they don't like certain types of immigrants! You should know a little more about what you do and write!
@@pedroarthurbarbosa ja genau! Kassen bon dazu?
Therefore the _"official"_ language of science is bad English. 😂
@@user-lk4ol3wq7p Oh, you know a phrase in German, is that some kind of alibi?
@@pedroarthurbarbosa
No. I make money here on CZcams. I comment it drives traffic to my channel.
Trolls like you are of great help for these ends
As an advanced student of Spanish, I don't think I'd be too interested in learning from a non-native speaker. At the beginning levels, I think a non-native speaker might even be better than a native speaker. At higher levels, no way.
What's really annoying though, is that when we native speakers of English travel and want to speak other languages, we are not allowed to. Don't answer me back in English. It's condescending and rude.
I’m a native speaker and personally think that a non-native speaker brings the valuable experience of having actually been formally taught
Most native speakers absorb English. It’s been my experience that very few actually have been taught even fundamental grammar, at least in the United States. So they can’t call on the experience that they can model their own teaching after.
Very interesting, thank you for sharing! To be honest: I am a sucker for British drama and mystery and I'd be delighted to have a native speaker as a teacher( no offence to the other brilliant professors out there in the world). Watching movies gave me the opportunity to listen to various accents across UK ( Irish, Scouts, Geordie, Scottish, the cockney dialect etc )and I am chuffed to bits whenever the cast is a mix of actors borned and especially raised in different regions. Love your videos, cheers!❤
Thanks for your comment.
As a non-native teacher of English I can't but thank you for your warm words. I know exactly what you mean and I really appreciated this video of yours.
This is very interesting…and you are so right. I am a non native english teacher, but I lived in England as a child and have very little or no accent.. If someone has been through the process of leaning a language thororoughly, they are the best teachers…
Thank you for rising this serious and important issue. You are giving your audience a good understanding of how this business works. Teaching a foreign language is not just a matter of knowledge of the language itself, but also of the correct teaching methods.
Chapeau!
I follow both native and non-native teachers, each has its own strengths. I have learned a lot from all of you.
I'm Australian and we speak English here, although it sounds a little different than elsewhere. After spending 6 years learning Norwegian, I wrote to one of my cousins in Norway and she responded with perfect English. In fact, her vocabulary was better than my own. As a result, I immediately stopped studying Norwegian and began studying Spanish. Then after a couple of years, I decided to try Chinese Mandarin since I've read that it's the hardest language to learn for English speakers. All this language learning has taught me a lot about my own language that I've been using my whole life without really learning it. In fact, I still haven't bothered to learn English grammar because I already know intuitively how to use it, but I would certainly struggle to teach English to foreigners. Perhaps that's something I should look into. Maybe I could get a nice job teaching English if I were to just learn what all the different parts of a sentence are called. Another thing worth mentioning is that native speakers don't always follow the rules. That was one of the first things I noticed back when I was a young fella and social media first became popular. I was amazed by how many of my friends couldn't write properly and didn't care. I always found it a challenge to figure out what they were trying to say. Imagine if they tried to teach English to foreigners. I even catch myself making mistakes sometimes. I think I'm getting worse actually. When I was studying a lot of Spanish, it definitely influenced the way I spoke in English. Strangely, nobody ever mentioned it.
Non-native english teacher here. It often appeared to me like many language schools' main interest isn't even successful teaching and seeing their students become competent, but rather convincingly selling many more or less effective lessons that follow conservative standardized patterns. Try talking about Prof.Krashen with them to gauge the waters. The general learning insights and competence that a non-native teacher has acquired with regard to language acquisition doesn't factor into this equation.
interesting point
as a turkish non-native english speaker, I just love listening to your comments... you're speaking a learnable and lovable english... thanks a lot..
I'm a native English speaker who has been in the process of learning a couple of languages.
I think the best teacher is one who has gone through the process of learning the language that they are trying to teach. Invaluable insight into the inner workings of a language is gained this way. They also need to be an inspirational teacher. They also need to be able to understand the language of their students so they can communicate with them and highlight the bits that the student is going to have most difficultly with.
Native English speakers for example don't generally have much familiarity with the formal descriptions of English grammar that you find in textbooks, such as the names of the different tenses and moods of verbs. They just go by instinct about what sounds right, honed by years of experience.
For advanced pronunciation practice, these days there is so much content on the internet that 'correct' pronunciation examples by native speakers are easy to find.
Thank you Gideon, your thoughts are unique, just as your lessons are appealing, two -in -one treats!👏🏻
As a non- native , I’m still inspiring my students for the love of learning English.
Thanks, dear colleague. Best wishes
Gideon, thank you for your supportive speech. I am a non-native teacher of English. I love the lg and I love teaching it to others. I try to be my best. ❤❤❤
Thanks dear colleague
Usted vale oro.
Thank you. I had a similar idea. You are right.
I luv this channel, Even your rants be so polite 🤩
I'm a native English teacher and have been for more years than I care to say LOL. The other day my wife, who is Russian, sent me a video of her "English Through Stories" course. The teacher was a non native and made a few mistakes which grated on me, as they were repeated a number of times. BUT, the class was So engaging, so well thought out and so expertly delivered, I was dying to join in myself, but of course couldn't. I felt like hanging up my teaching clogs to be honest. She taught me a few things, I can tell you!! Cool Channel Gideon, I always recommend you to all my students. I also spotted you in one of the episodes of Gordon Ramsey's "Kitchen Nightmares" :)
Thought provoking, and as a native English speaker and (usually) working in education, though not language teaching - it seems to be a big question of substance and style ... sure, there are very good teachers who might not speak with an English accent and bad teachers who may convey the accent but not the rest - perhaps it's a mixture of both in a language school (I don't know!).
However, it strikes me that criticism is the lowest form of defence and the ability to make oneself easily understood in a language is perhaps the best that one can strive for anyway ... trust me, I've struggled for some 50 years with German/Dutch/Flemish (...not to mention the past tense of verbs in French, Italian and Spanish) ... and I'm still not perfect but it hasn't hindered understanding!
So just go for it and do the best you can ... whichever way, you'll be respected by the native speaker😀
As a learner of French, I like both. I like the accent of francophones but I like to see how someone like me can learn to speak the language.
Gideon, you gave a great lesson today in human values, I loved hearing your thoughts, I see horrible things on Instagram, non-native teachers attacking another successful non-native teacher, I follow Brazilian girls who are teachers who live in the United States, very good at teaching. I think your story in Madrid is sensational, Gideon, you are getting better and better. Its sole purpose is to teach. I have followed you for so many years, I admire your work and position on issues. 👏👏
So this happens on Instagram too. I'm not surprised. I much appreciate your comments over the years. It's people like you that inspire me to keep on making videos. Many thanks.
@@LetThemTalkTV our brilliant teacher is a great person
Thank you, Sir, for this video! Loads of love and good wishes from a humble fan of your from the Balkans (who has experienced many a times this kind of injustice you've explained so well)
Well done, prof. I was a non-native English teacher
Hi Gideon, a great video as usual. when I was learning English, I didn't insist on having a native speaker of English. A native English speaker doesn't necessarily mean that they are also a good teacher. On my way to fluency, I met great as well as bad teachers both native as well as non-native speakers of English. thanks a lot for this video, keep up the great work you have been doing !
Well, I must confess, I expected a different topic. I thought it was about native speakers who dislike non native speakers of English because of their accents. But okay, it's about the teachers. I would recommend the non natives for the beginners' courses because they are closer to the mindset of the learners. At the beginning the teachers have to explain a lot in the students' native language. As soon as students can be called advanced learners they should face the harsh reality 😂of a native English speaker because this will prepare them for contact with the enemy 😂 on the ground. I came across non native teachers of English during the last three years at grammar school who were trainees. We hated them! They weren't even sufficiently fluent and their pronounciation was a laugh! I later learnt that English nationals with a teacher's degree in English were struggling to find a job. They should have been sent to schools in Germany! I dedicate this comment to two Brits who were teaching at the schools I went to, though I wasn't so lucky to be in their classes: Miss MacLaverty and Mr Collier. And of course I would have loved to have a teacher like Gideon. That doesn't mean that the non-native teachers didn't do a proper job when I started at the age of 11, but as soon as you're ready to read literature and non-fictional text and write essays, I'd prefer a teacher with a life time of growing up in the country where the language has its origin. Speaking a language and communicating in a foreign language are two different things.
Interesting points. Thanks
I admit I was in two minds about this (the youtube "exposés"), but you've made some pretty compelling arguments and made me see the issue in a totally different way. I really respect you for making this video.
Brilliant as always.
I am fluent in English and somehow my accent is pretty much impossible to recognize. Now, I still lack the first-hand cultural background except for the 7 years I spent living, studying and working in the US. Americans I talked to just always assumed I am out-of-state. In all of the states I visited. After I came to Japan, I met some native English speakers. And the moment I told them I am not American, they would start mishearing and misunderstanding me. Some native speaking colleagues would say that students only choose to take my classes because of my amiable personality but not because of my teaching skills. It is extremely interesting because my students develop way better speaking, listening and writing skills than those of my former toxic colleagues who were native speakers but inadequate teachers.
If you think about it, that just shows their insecurity. Being a native speaker is their only 'advantage'. That said I've met some amazing teachers who were native speakers, usually from New Zealand and usually female. Most Americans just tend to really fail at teaching anything somehow. I wonder why. They make really nice presentations though.
I think the teaching abilities of “native” teachers of English in the U.S. varies greatly. I personally know many (high school level), but they live and work in large cities on the coasts. Small communities may have more difficulty with attracting the strongest teachers.
Fortunately, there are good online resources available to augment classroom instruction.
You're such a great man, Gideon
As a non-native speaker of French who teaches the French language, this resonates with me!
You are not only a great English teacher, you're a good person that inspire us to go ahead. Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
Gideon, well done for you! I was actually scared to comment on their particular videos because I am too busy to deal with any vitriol that would come back (possibly)... but really I was amazed by their bullying!
A case in point... if I may.... they complained about someone using "to do mistakes", and so they illogically 'proved' their point by citing how "to make mistakes" is used in films etc... but FFS, we use TO DO to mean to complete (sth not new) - eg we say to make a bed BUT we also say a chambermaid has to do the beds before noon etc.
Anyway you know! But for English students here,,,,'So don't do the classic mistakes" is fine, it means don't REPEAT the mistakes that exist already. to do mistakes = ok. Whereas to make a mistake is about new mistakes, something 'created'
Also consider: Teachers make homework (create). Students do homework (to complete). For example. Anyway my life is too short and too busy - thank you for your work!
Teacher of many many eons, see your stuff and like it. Keep it up Gideon, thank you!
To me it's all about learning, what students, apprentices, pupils... What people want to learn. And the same applies to the communication and daily conversation's environment, because no matter how genuine the code is dominated, if subjects aren't colliding you gotta keep it shallow or talk about something else, simple as that...
So in practice, a teacher has to sustain charisma, and that is only happening through emotions, comprehension, interdisciplinary works... In the foreign landscape case, also using the mother language rather than English itself...
It seems that way! Decorate, paint the details so the picture gets better, but do it with passion and sincerity every time you enter the classroom!
😊😊💕💕...Thanks so much.Agreed 100 %!!
The fact that you like JP speaks volumes! Thanks so much for this revelation sir, it makes me evaluate your work even more.
I can guess which CZcams channel Gideon means and to be honest I’m a subscriber and a frequent viewer. Despite detesting their overly personalistic approach to non native English teachers I find their videos quite informative. Especially for a Russian native speaker. Since most of their victims are Russian native speakers they pinpoint typical errors which I also make from time to time. On the other hand they sometimes just split hairs finding fault with minute bloopers.
Same here
I think the real issue here is if the teacher is teaching correct English or not. Obviously a native speaker would be more likely to get it right. If I put myself in the position of a person learning a new language, I would certainly hope that the information I am being given is correct, and, if there is someone teaching the language that consistently makes mistakes, I would appreciate that being pointed out. I don't really think the people doing so should be shamed.
THIIIISSS... This is what i've been looking for.
Thank you 😊
Hi.
You provided big inspiration for me as not native English teacher.
Thank you very much.
I have several Japanese friends ( in Japan ) that often ask for help learning English . I always tell them as long as who you are talking to understands basically what you are trying to say you are doing good . Pronunciation is more important than grammar . If I can understand the words I can usually understand what you’re trying to say
I am a non-native teacher of Mathematics, sometimes in English. I just try to do my best.
A good practice from Russia, the Faculty of History, Moscow, MGU, before 2000, 2nd year students, French language - 6 h per week. I was a student of Maths but attended the course of French at the Faculty of History as a "listener" without a certificate. I just asked to participate and they said yes:
2 h - Grammar, a non-native teacher 1.
2 h - Historical texts reading and discussing, a non-native teacher 2.
2 h - spoken French, with a native teacher 3, may not speak Russian well or at all.
I would advise combining non-natives and natives.
And thank you for your support! ( I have no channel)
My best teacher of all times was not native, never did I learn so much vocabulary, pronunciation and fluency tips as in his classes, he changed the way I speak English for the best, thanks to his courses I passed CAE with a B. Unfortunately I lost track of him. Carlos Cortés I hope you are reading this.
To give my two cents: I had great non-native English and other foreign languages in Brazil. They showed their competences by organizing their course (of course with the language school structure) to work in all areas of communication. These instructors used the activities to identify and correct the weak spots on the language, as well as teaching new topics.
I am a German and learned Latin, English, French and Spanish in school, with neither obvious talent nor success in class. I went to the US as an exchange student for a year in 1980 and graduated as a high-school senior. While I was practically a deaf-mute initially, I became a half-way competent listener after six months, and it was only shortly before leaving that I had become fully fluent, active and passive …in American English. By then very few people could tell I wasn’t American, and it typically took quite a bit of surprise, stress or alcohol to drop the veil.
It’s been more than four decades now and to a certain degree my English has far surpassed even my German, because my work in IT and science has always been international and the vast majority of all the literature that I’ve read and written for fun and for work has been in English.
The biggest issue was never the language as such, but the fact that I found it ever harder to maintain an American ‘persona’, both for political and for practical reasons, as most of my work and daily contact actually switched to people from the UK or other non-natives: at a certain point it just felt plain wrong to continue as a ‘Yankee imposter’ with the mid-western English that I had made my own.
There isn’t a ‘German’ variant of English that isn’t universally loathed, so what should I pick?
The Queen’s English wasn’t any harder than a US accent, Spanish or French. In fact, accents or pronunciation were never an issue in any language and I attribute that to the fact that I am a trained classical singer, too: you just naturally pay just so much more attention to vocalization!
I obviously needed sufficient exposure for training and RP is both easily accessible and generally understood. But the more I worked in and with people from the UK, the more it became political, too: I didn’t care to be mistaken for a public-school old boy and I rather enjoyed just playing with some of the more iconic variants from a Southern US drawl to bits of Scots. Actually, I didn’t even have much choice: Zelig, the movie, touched a chord, because after a few months with colleagues from the sub-continent I noticed some extra consonants slipping into what came out of my mouth. After years with French colleagues, I find myself duplicating their most frequent errors, very much without wanting to!
I remember working with a team of Brits for months, when all of a sudden, a new Kiwi member introduced himself one morning and had me unconsciously respond in a relaxed American banter as the closest fit: those Brits were shocked to the core and looked at me with their mouths agape, because they suddenly didn’t recognize that person they had been working with for months!
When I was 33, I went to Southern Spain for a sabbatical and very much with the goal of duplicating my US experience with Spanish, for which I had an affinity I can’t explain, because I’d never actually been there before and only had the most basic rudiments of the language from the US high-school.
Just before the Internet age in the mid-nineties “intercambio” was a well-established custom, whereby you’d spend an hour or two with a Spaniard and half the time would be spent in Spanish for you to learn theirs, the other half in the language they wanted to learn.
There was very little interest for German so I didn’t even try to advertise it, instead I went for English and offered both variants, US and UK to anyone who’d be interested.
And that’s the memories your video triggered, because I was confronted with some Spaniards who weren’t confident enough in my ability to teach them either one of the variants at that ultimate quality level only a native speaker could evidently provide. Funnily enough, even a live demo couldn’t shake their prejudice, just knowing that I wasn’t in fact English (or American) was enough to discount me.
At the time original language materials still weren’t as readily available as they are today and their English was generally so bad, that they obviously couldn’t begin to judge the quality of mine. Moreover, all the native English participants in a Spanish class at the public escuela de idiomas de Málaga were ready to put into writing that my English was in fact much better than their own…
And I'm glad to say that that hasn't really changed since: I obviously still make mistakes from time to time, but it's very rare for native speakers to realize that actually I am not.
Yet these Spaniards were utterly scared of learning English from what might be a bad teacher!
And after attending some English classes at the University of Málaga and getting to know students who studied there to become English teachers in public education, I couldn’t really fault them: foreign language education in Spain was even worse than in small town USA, and I only know Japan to be worse (at the time?) than that. Very few teacher candidates could afford to spend a year abroad in a country where the language they were to teach would be spoken natively. And it’s only through the Internet that accessibility has changed so dramatically.
And yes, that’s mainly in terms of how teachers spoke the language they taught. I had zero insight into and admittedly very little appreciation for their pedagogical skills as language educators: after all my teachers in Germany largely seemed to failed me in that regard, too.
It’s only much later that I realized that without their groundwork in grammar and basic vocabulary, my “total immersion method” of then learning the language in that seemingly effortless manner of “just living there”, might not have worked at all, or not nearly as well.
Anyhow, I managed to add Spanish there and then, and French another twenty years later in my fifties, when the level of achievable immersion available to a married middle-aged family man was much more limited: it just took a few years instead of a single one to eventually achieve effortless fluency.
But I’m afraid that languages are really like people and that as a corollary to Dunbar’s Number you can’t maintain a truly intimate relationship with more than five people--or languages, so any new member in that innermost circle will push another out to the next layer where a much more conscious effort is required to maintain the relationship.
Which is but a feeble excuse why hence I might have deteriorated here or there…
You are a great mind!
I have started to learn Portuguese, I am Spanish, and follow three teachers: two are natives and one is not, her native language is English ( incredibly elegant diction btw).
I love the three of them: they all speak clearly, are fun, love what they do, and are knowledgeable, experienced teachers who know their grammar and are spot on when it comes to addressing the difficult parts for learners.
I love your style a lot too.
Thanks!❤
I am a non native English teacher WHO have been CONGRATULATED many times by native English people and i felt very good.
Besides, i also CONGRATULATE non native teachers of English who could get rid of their native acents ( such as Russian accents) and speak with a perfect British accent. When it comes to these teachers i may say " you ve done a great job"!
I agree with you, my perception of English teaching is that it is bureaucratized, and embedded in totally artificial standards. We forget that it is a tool that enables communication. I do not have any recognized A1-C2 grade, nor do I plan to have one, it is simply ridiculous
For a native English teacher It's hard to explain how to use present perfect tense and verbs like "combinar" or "passar" in my language.
Thank you very much for your words, Dr. Gideon ☺️💞 you are such a wise gentleman.
I'm goin to share this video with my colleagues.
Hi! I wanted to thank you for this video. As a student, I have sadly incurred in the prejudice you name. I took me some more years of age and experience to realize about it, and how stupid I was. Fortunately however, I've had excellent teachers in my country (Non native of course) who nourished my enthusiasm for this beautiful language (and others, also beautiful) Then thank you all you Teachers.
Thank you for your video and your point of view. You've got it right: the very simple explanation to all you've developed is a feeling of... jealously! You've pointed it out right! As for me, I'm a French teacher of English and have always taught in my own country. We can tackle the problem from another point of view: the french-speaking one. I'm going a bit off the mark but if you have an English-teaching school in France, you may have noticed a lot of mistakes that so many French people make with their own language too. Like "ce que j'ai besoin" instead of "ce dont j'ai besoin". "Ce que je parlais" instead of "ce que je disais" or "ce dont je parlais". As if the extinct past simple and the nearly extinct subjunctive weren't enough, we're witnessing the disappearance of the relative pronouns. The same for Spanish: lots of mistakes and a lower and lower number of words at disposal. Contagious disease, seems to me. Anyway, we'll try to do our best and keep going, believing in what we're doing. As for Jordan Peterson, he is a great psychologist, a great person by and large; he writes as well as he speaks and languages have some room for tolerance as far grammar or vocabulary are concerned. A "who" in the place of a "whom" doesn't bring down the content in one block, does it? Best regards from Strasbourg!
My students are always complaining about French mistakes made by the French. I couldn't possibly comment. Thanks for your thoughts. Very interesting.
The native language of the non native English teacher is important, too. Ideally it should be the same original language the student has. Thus the teacher knows the difficulties the English language presents for this specific original language.
A VERY GOOD VIDEO.
As a student, I prefer a native English teacher. Why? Simply because what I find most challenging is understanding people who speak quickly or have a thick accent. Non-native English teachers typically have a lovely and clear diction that does not strain my listening skills. Additionally, I honestly think non-native English teachers tend to use simpler vocabulary and expressions/idioms.
I'm a non-native English teacher, and I've never encountered native-speakerism myself, primarily because we've got so few native speakers of English in my country that hiring only natives would be a failing strategy for any school. In my opinion, non-native teachers have a number of advantages. I've got the same frame of reference as my students, I understand the culture, I know which problems require special attention because I speak the same language. I can explain even a complex concept in a couple of minutes, whereas it might take an English speaker an entire lesson to really drive it home, especially with students who speak little to no English. It's easier for me to break the ice when I meet new students, which can help them feel more at ease and be much more receptive to what I'm teaching. In an ideal world, a native and non-native teachers could work side-by-side to complement each other and bring students to a whole new level faster.
It doesn't seem to go the other way around. A non-native speaker (of Chinese) who is teaching the Chinese language would automatically get criticized and nobody would care. This "native-speakerism" is only for the English language.
Thanks for the video. It's a very interesting point to be discussed. In my case, I have a different experience. I'm from Brazil, and here I never liked the Brazilian teachers because they usually translate many situations to Portuguese, instead of explaining using the language they are teaching. This makes a huge difference for me. I learn better without translation. I prefer an explanation. And yes, to be a good language teacher you need first be in love with the language. For example, there are some American teachers on CZcams who simply felt in love with Portuguese, and they have a much better grammar knowledge than the many Brazilians. One reason is that language grammar is not easy. Portuguese is not easy, and I think French, in spite of being easier for us to speak, French grammar is much more difficult. And in English, I'm just a B1/B2, the grammar seems to be more simple.
I totally agree, espacially your last words an thank you for your videos, I learn a lot! Language is dynamic and full of culture, history and life. Sometimes there is no right or wrong and it depends from which perspective we look at it. As you said these entiteld native speaker teachers spread a shady light on themselves. I teach German to my Chinese friends and every time I am intrigued how beautiful and meaningful languages can be. I am not good at grammar and I think I am not a good teacher for people who want's to go to an exam, despite I am a German native speaker. But I am good in bringing the language alive and my friends appreciate that. I think the definition of a good or bad teacher is difficult to make. It also depends on the student's goal. At the moment I prefer British English native speaker as teachers because I like the sound and pronunciation of different British accents. My current teacher is from Wales. It's so lovely to talk to him! So, I am not a native speaker and there are probably a lot of mistakes in my comment, but the heart is what matters, isn't it?
very interesting comment. Thanks
As a former ESL teacher I always replied to those accusations by simply saying: just because you have both hands, it doesn’t automatically mean you can play piano; similarly having learned English right from the cradle doesn’t entitle you to become a great teacher. Pedagogical prowess takes years of training and experience, along with a certain mindset and aptitude, and by no stretch of imagination is bestowed upon any person let alone a native speaker. In other words, apples can be red, green and yellow and if a fruit is red, it doesn’t mean it is an apple as well as the opposite is equally true.
Thank you
As a non-native ESL teacher with a Bachelor's in teaching foreign languages and cultures as well as multiple certificates, I get paid half as much as native speakers with zero education or experience. 🥲
Another point people often bring up is whether the teacher has lived in an English-speaking country, which is equally silly. I've met droves of people who lived in one country or another without being able to learn a word of the language. Meanwhile, the Internet allows you to communicate with natives and hone your language skills without leaving the comfort of your house, let alone your country.
This is sadly the reality we're living in, I feel you cause I am also striving to be a "perfect" "native-level" non-native English teacher too.
Sadly, it seems little has changed since the time I lived in Spain. Interesting comments thanks
👏👏👏
Gracious and support are the best default settings. If we always go there unless indicated otherwise, we'll build a better world together. ♥♥
This video found me just in time. I posted a short video of me talking some everyday stuff in English to encourage other people who study foreign languages in non-English-speaking countries. And the first comment I received was: "Why do you make a video if it's not your mother tongue?" 🤷🏻♀️
I am a native language teacher too, but for German, and sometimes I mock non-native speakers, too, but only the bad ones. There are many super non-native speakers teaching German on CZcams, but some inviduals simply produce crappy videos - and I don't mean a light accent, I mean severe grammar mistakes.
but why don't you just ignore them?
@@LetThemTalkTVI am also teaching German as a native speaker but only offline. If a specific channel on YT spreads disinformation about the German language I see it as my duty to highlight that in a respectfull way of course.
@@LetThemTalkTV Because the videos are harmful, they do not help people to learn the language, they - as my colleague already said - spread disinformation.
Learn german fast - Deutsch mit Natalia?
Great video .I work as an ESL teacher in Vietnam, where the discrimination regarding non-native English teachers is strong. I've worked with some really great teachers, who were turned away from certain teaching jobs due to their being from a SE Asian nation, instead of the UK, US etc. I like the varied content on your channel, and it's one of the top 5 ESL CZcams channels that I recommend to my students. Hope to catch up with you for a coffee in Paris one day!