[EDH] What you NEED to make a Commander deck
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- čas přidán 31. 07. 2024
- Tools:
- EDHRec: edhrec.com/
- Scryfall: scryfall.com/
- Hypergeometric Calcuator: aetherhub.com/Apps/HyperGeome...
Videos/Articles:
- Snail's EDHRec Video: • The EDHRec Effect
- Scryfall Guide: • Get Better At Building...
- Frank Karsten's "How many Lands?": www.channelfireball.com/artic...
- Frank Karsten's "How many Sources?": www.channelfireball.com/artic...
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A video for new to intermediate Magic the Gathering players to understand strategies for using Hypergeometric Calculators, Scryfall, EDHRec and other tools to build commander decks that they will enjoy playing as well as being a hub for conversation about deckbuilding and whatnot.
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0:00 Intro
0:50 PART 0 | Pitfalls
2:17 PART 1 | Research
7:55 PART 2 | Evaluation
10:17 PART 3 | Ratios
12:38 PART 4 | Playtesting
13:25 PART 5 | Maintenance
13:54 Outro
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You can support me if you found this video helpful/entertaining! ko-fi.com/33elk
You can also find me on twitter.. x.com/PainterlyPip
![[EDH] My favorite green commander WANTS to be destroyed](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/uqiygfohojM/mqdefault.jpg)
*Errata:* At 4:36 I imply that you can attack with dusk legion duelist to tap it when it has a very funny word on it that makes it not do that. I missed that, oops! Just pretend it works, eh? Its not the point of the video anyway, haha.. alright here's the *FAQ:*
*At what stage are you considering power level?*
This guide only helps with the finding of synergistic cards for your commander deck. Once you've done so it's up to you to find out which ones belong in your playgroup by using your card evaluation skills by comparing them to cards that have not worked in the past with your playgroup. For example, if your playgroup hates playing against gravepact, its probably not a good idea to put dictate of erebos in your dimir flash brew. But Butcher of Malakir may be fine because its so much more expensive. It'll depend on your group so its hard to say for sure.
*How often do you goldfish?*
You can goldfish (drawing test hands and playing out turns) as much or as little as makes you comfortable. It can help you determine curve and playpatterns, but when it comes to ratios, focus on the hypergeometric calculator percentages first and goldfishing second.
*Do you buy your decks or do you proxy?*
Personally I don't proxy (every deck tech you see/will see on this channel is built and bought and maintained by me; i dont think i'd ever make a video on a deck i haven't put some stake in, feels irresponsible). That is just me though, in an ideal world everyone can play this game for freezies so proxy away if everyone is cool with it. Makes trying stuff you like easier as well.
Good point, well said. Communication about what people want/can tolerate in a game is important!
Omg I goldfish a ton, whenever I have spare time and nothing better to do I goldfish lol.
I don't know if this is considered gold fishing, I just always called it a phantom game, but I get more and better feedback playing the deck against another of mine, using a go for the throat kinda approach, to stress the deck and see how it handles different levels of being screwed or popping off, how fast to get there, how susceptible to any form of counter and removal, big stuff, small stuff, fast stuff, death touch, toxic, poison, etc... my play group is varied and games can get vicious or out hand cause of pop offs, synergies and effects not encountered before, with decks spanning the spectrum, lol.
I don't mean to be rude but the card in question was dusk legion duelist which has vigilance. Dusk legion zealot is the black 2 mana 1/1 lose a life draw a card.
@@markthegamer8615 not rude haha
I'm not going to lie, while the hypergeometric calculator is a very cool tool to put in front of people, when you're talking about how to approach the game and get started, 'ignore a convenient template because eyeballing percentages in a calculator is better' is one of those things that shows the gap between what enfranchised players think is easy and beginner players don't.
Lovely video.
I don't think this video is intended for new new players but those who follow the usual deck building advice and feel there are things "missing". At least, that's how I interpret it.
There are defo ppl who enjoy understanding the why behind the what.
I don't think you need to use the hypergeometric calculator to avoid EDHrec. I love browsing EDHrec, but I also am coming around to avoiding relying on it. Deck Construction is a huge part, maybe the most important part of Commander. And if people are just circle jerking off of a recommendations website, then that kind of kills that part of the game.
If you don't start learning how to build decks as a noob, when will you ever want to learn?
@@htspencer9084 From the description: "A video for ***new*** to intermediate Magic the Gathering players"
@@TalenLee I could have broken it down a little more in the video but it was already pushing 15 minutes haha. Honestly though, translating percentages to numbers you feel comfortable with isn’t as hard as it seems.
“Are you okay with having 15% of games be removalless your first three turns?” If you answer no to this, but the correct answer for you was yes; and you answered wrong due to inexperience you will still have a better deck than someone who used a template. Playtesting will reveal your error to you and you will now know that for every deck for the rest of your life. I can’t teach that, that’s something people just learn while playing. Nothing can replace experience.
Templates are anything but convenient. They remove the stress from deckbuilding but they make for bad decks. In the long term too, templates will not have you thinking about your decks as much in terms of construction which will make you a worse deckbuilder. Using skills etc etc.
The math part had me chuckling. When I was a teenager and learned about percentages in school, we always calculated "how many buggy things will the machine produce when it has an error rate of x%?" and I never really understood why I should care. I wasn't seeing working with machines to produce stuff in my future. But one day I came home from a particularly meh magic afternoon. I just hadn't been able to pull the cards I needed to win any games. So I caught myself thinking "Huh, I wonder how often I need to include this card to draw it in the first couple of turns". That was the evening percentages and calculating them finally clicked for me.
Yesss. Math was like my worst subject it bored me outta my mind but now i play magic and this game is NOTHING BUT MATH. Like why did i do this, i thought i hated this.
You’re not going to believe this, but i follow you on my main channel.
@@33elk Yess, exactly! I had a couple of years I really disliked math classes, so having to realize that my biggest hobby was basically just math disguised with pretty pictures was quite an aha-moment :D I've worked as a math teacher last year and had to practice percentage calculation with my students - I did have the tiny moment of "wait, can I use mtg to teach this better?", but had to bin the thought because that would have gone too far ;) But it made me try to give a bigger example size of problems to solve for my students, so it was still a win :D
And: What?! That's awesome! Guess we're learning from each other then :D! (Just realized: I am subscribed to you with my inofficial account - binged your videos last weekend when I was sorting hrough my cards. You make great videos!)
@ChristinaCreatesGames why not? Sure you can teach math using MTG! Or a different game! I'm sure many of the kids would love it
@@joedoe7572 I only had six hours to teach the basics ;) If I had more time, sure. But I had to get 29 students up to speed on basic calculations, most of who had trouble understanding either our language, numbers or both. They needed to understand it so they would be able to calculate specific use cases for their jobs in an upcoming exam. So there was sadly hardly any wiggle room for coolness.
@@joedoe7572 Oh, absolutely! But with a very limited amount of time of six 90-min lessons, a group of students who struggle for multiple reasons with spoken and written language, a variety of math skills and do not see themselves as able to learn math due to horrendous prior teachers, students who do not know the basics of playing a card game (cards on your hand, drawing cards, reacting to cards being played), there was way too much standing in the way of using any kind of game to teach this topic. Teaching how to play 1 vs 1 with cards and a set order or things alone would have taken more than 90min - in which we would not have been able to touch the core of the topics they were supposed to learn. Additionally, my students were 16y+, typically saw games as "childish" in general (which hurt, seeing as I tried using games in other scenarios in which we had more time) and had to be prepared for an upcoming exam in a different topic taught by a colleague,... There were just too many reasons why I had to find a different approach. I would absolutely love to use more games in education, I am a big fan of game based learning. But sometimes, the interests and abilities of the students, as well as outside requirements and time constraints make this not possible.
Just want to add some tips for scryfall here. If you have a card you really like and want to see if there are cards like it, on the scryfall page for that card scroll down. There should be a column with a button "Open on Scryfall tagger". This is where all the art tags and the Oracle tags are listed. An Oracle tags or otag is in my opinion one of the best ways to navigate scryfall. Otag:ramp will get you everything that ramps, even if it gets you just one treasure. Otag:manarock will get you each artifact that taps for mana. There are probably tags you haven't heard of. I wasn't aware what a saboteur was for example (it's an effect that triggers when you deal combat damage to an opponent)
If you're looking for a card below a certain mana value, yes you can order by mana value. But you can also use cmc
THIS IS A FEATURE????
*THANK YOU SO MUCH*
Scryfall tagger is a godsend. Genuinely incredible system.
@@smefgrimstae7845there are literally hundreds of tags, if not thousands. You can click the tagger project way at the bottom of the page to see them all
@@davidhower7095 It's astonishing how effectively scryfall has filled the gap for a card database. I've heard that even WotC employees use scryfall over their own Gatherer system.
Yeah that's crazy to have roar tags for things that roar in artwork 🤣 mostly adjani tbh, but you think those tags are like AI generated or is it human label?
My favorite 3/3 Elk! You should make a cute token with your lil guy so I can hand it to folks when I Oko them!
You bastard! What a wonderful idea!
I've thought about it! definitely not impossible.
@@33elk I won’t just turn their creature into a 3/3 elk… it’ll be THE 3/3 Elk. Much cooler.
The amount of furry artists I know that would love to do this…
Jokes aside I’d totally be all over one of these tokens!
@@willofthewisp9864 imagine you elk someone’s commander. Hand them this token. Then say “Don’t worry bro they’ll give you deck building advice.”
Not gonna lie, I legitimately was like "this is my process exactly" until you mentioned the hypergeometric calculator and then it was more "oh no, more math for my math rectangles"
As a Brawl player, since the format is quick 1v1s, I do find “Trail by Fire” works really well too.
Like, no matter how “good” a card is, if the feeling you get when drawing the card in game is “fuck this I want to uninstall” most of the time, it’s probably not a card for your deck.
Obviously, this doesn’t just mean drawing the card mid game, it also means having the card in your opening hand. In fact, a card that makes you happy when seeing it in your opening hand is very valuable. Often times, even if it can feel like a dead draw late game, if a card can make you feel “ok this opening hand is perfect I’ve already won” then it’s probably a really good card.
Also, don’t underestimate lands. If you aren’t hitting your land drop every turn, then lands are basically 0 mana moxes that you can play for free!
Small sidenote on Scryfall searches: Scryfall Tagger is an underrated source for finding synergistic pieces for specific deck archetypes. The exact wording might be odd compared to your intent, but if it’s something they’ve made more than once or twice, it has a tag.
Case in point, my in-progress brew of Necroblossom focused on getting stuff into the graveyard more than lands needed some oomf, so I found a tag of every type of Reassembling Skeleton-like card, some of which I remembered, and one of which was Scourge of Nel Toth, a one card Dread Return that fit perfectly into my gameplan.
I used to pray for times like these, the elk has blessed us once again
Just wanna add a small thing. "The best deck" is subjective for you the builder. Dont be afraid to not include typical combos or powerful interactions in your deck if you dont personally enjoy playing them.
A deck that you enjoy playing is 10x better than a deck you despite touching.
yeah exactly, this video is all about building a deck you enjoy not one that is the most optimal. Though it can be used to do both
As always rule 0 beats all :)
Those Thran Vigil synergies are an amazing find! Really good example of how to use scryfall too
Great video! Two of my decks BREAK building templates -Muldrotha+Gyruda acts as a slot machine to mill cards into the grave that I can cast later, so I have 0 regular card draw but 17 clones and 17 ramp sources for consistency (plus lots of artifact/enchantment removal to stop Rest In Peace). My Galea deck wants to cast equipment/auras off the top of the library, so there’s also 0 regular card draw but lots of ways to scry/shuffle and 51 auras/equipment!
exactly!
Your galea deck sounds really dope!
Just wanted to say this was very well done. You layed out the process in a easily digestible way, as someone who has tried to help friends and coworkers tests their decks to see how they feel I will be sharing the video with them from now on to help the flow of creation.
One of, if not the best darn video about deckbuilding there is! It goes deep, it goes wide. The mission statement of being a one-stop location for information is spot on. I greatly appreciate specific directions on questions to ask and tools to use. I so often hear people reference a hypergeometric calculator and do none of the work in explaining what to do with it or how to interpret the results; but the video's got that too!
I have made decks for nearly every legendary creature and I don't think there is a thing I disagree with here and I deeply wish I had this advice early on in that process.
My favorite internet elk, I think this video is a great achievement; you have contributed to the Magic community greatly
Yeah, this and Snail's videos (referenced in this video) are both REALLY good, and are like actual advice instead of CONTENT™, which i find some other stuff leaning into a bit too heavily. Very informitave and still very entertaining :)
This is a wonderful resource. I build my decks in a similar way, but I don't answer the math questions until I've played a half dozen games with it. Mostly because I enjoy treating edh as a playground to escape very meta heavy environments. Then if I really like how the deck plays... **the calculator comes out**
That's part of what made building tri color omnath so difficult.
1) They're a 3/3.
2) They care about the number of elementals you have in play when he ETBs.
2a) Should I run fun, unique elementals, or card that generate and amplify the generation of elemental tokens?
3) You need flicker/bounce effects if you want to re-trigger their ETB.
4) They put a +1/+1 counter on an elemental when a land ETBs, so there's land/ramp synergies.
5) You also draw a card if you have 8 or more lands after that land ETBs.
This is the best mtg video I've watched in months. Real refreshing and very informative
As an experienced mtg player I knew the majority of this but the scryfall portion is a huge help for me.
I had instead defaulted to filtering in and out specific cards on edhrec under a commander I liked. This would suggest other peoples builds theat were closer to my vision. But the process of searching for specific synergies yourself is both rewarding and probably very neccessary with how many cards are being released these days.
This video is like send from heaven with perfect timing. I have consumed so much content regarding deckbuilding for years now but all my decks where never fun. But this inspired me and I hope I will find decks that survive ❤
I found your channel today, and also subscribed today! I've been playing magic for around 6 years now and I love your thought process making these decks! I've certainly fallen into the EDHREC trap a couple of times and it doesn't lead to decks that I'm proud of.
I have a distinct memory of seeing somebody mention that you can build Nikya of the Old Ways as a dragon tribal commander that abuses firebreathing but could never find a list online, much less on EDHREC. I brewed the deck myself and it turned out super fun, being able to manage the hilariously over-costed Dragon Tyrant and run enough dragons to make Kilnmouth Dragon a hilarious blowout card.
Keep up the good work. I see this channel having a bright future
that nikya deck sounds siiiiiiiick
I tought you were about to promote a template and staples, and on my way out of the video, you said: Research.
That's why I'm sticking to the end.
Great video! My personal tip: deckbuilding sites like deckstats will often have a "starting hand" feature that lets you simulate an opening hand and/or drawing. This can help with the "playtesting" phase, even before you buy cards.
No one ever mentions mulligan strategy when talking about ratios. Usually your ratios should influence your mulligan strategy and not the other way around but still some players much more enjoy some mulligan techniques than others. If you know you’re gonna mulligan basically every two lander and you hate mulliganing below 5 that should influence the number of lands you play. If you know you never ever mulligan except 1 and 6+ lands then that should influence your deck building. Gotta remember it’s your deck, you gotta build something you’ll enjoy piloting.
love your vids! I really hope you get the attention you deserve. Seeing the rise of snail and trinket mage gives me hope.
Thanks for making this vid! I think it’s going to take a little bit of getting used to but scryfall seems like it’s going to be super useful!
I’m getting to work remaking my Dihada Assassins Creed deck right now, and it already looks like it’s shaping up better than usual because of your advice. Keep up the great vids!
Lately, turnabout has been my favorite card.
Frantic search, too
So I'm playing bounce lands now and falling in love with See double. All of a sudden, we have a combo with eternal witness
hyped to see where this channel goes
Hey this has to be one of the best deckbuilding videos of all time. Not only do you give examples and show links to other videos but I feel like you directly quote some other great videos as well.
Yay new Elk Video! I'm hyped, I just finished unsleeving all my decks and looking to build new decks so this is a sign if I've ever seen it 😊
My current struggling pet deck is "Ramos, the Dragon Engine" (Theros) gods. I play a lot of the Theros gods (which are great to fuel Ramos), and spells that have lots of hybrid mana and color density (Hybrid mana works incredibly well for both Ramos, and the Theros gods), such as all of the 2-mana-3-color-____blade Shards of Alara creatures (ie: Grixis Grimblade, Jund Hackblade, etc.). I include Esika, God of the Tree and Kolvori, God of Kinship, from Kaldheim, but the rest of the gods are Theros. Game plan is primarily to grab The World Tree and pop it with Ramos to grab all of my gods. To get there, I'm usually pillow-fort'ing with things like Sphere of Safety and the power of the gods. It doesn't necessarily win upon actually doing that, but it's in a very commanding state afterwards.
The biggest problem is consistency. Sometimes it durdles, other times it gets a turn 5 or 6 world tree pop that is very hard to stop if someone hasn't ramped into a Farewell for that turn cycle. I'm having a hard time refining it while also keeping the theming going. Some of this comes from actually turning gods into creatures; when I pop the world tree, I'm not guaranteed to actually make all of my gods creatures (most of them, but not all). I think I'm also a little split on *how* I'm going to turn on devotion. Since (most of) the gods are indestructible, I've run a lot of board wipes, which means focusing more on enchantments for devotion, but then running enchantress creatures feels terrible when you're wiping the board a lot.
All of this has had me thinking that I need to 1) focus more on 2-3 colors of gods, regardless of direct synergies, so that they're all "on" when I World Tree, and 2) commit to either next to no creatures, or drop the board wipe sub-theme. The former is mainly a matter of picking up some new god cards I think. I don't have every Theros god and version in my collection, so fleshing some of that out might be needed. The latter, I think I need to drop the board wipe sub-theme and stick with enchantresses and ramping creatures. Not 100% sure.
My overall goal with this deck is to have it be on the high-end of a precon, or just above. Something that's still decidedly casual, but will execute it's plan of playing a lot of gods (that will actually be creatures) almost every single time. Any thoughts/advice from folk is incredibly welcome.
idk if you remember my comment from last week’s video but i’ve been waiting on this for a minute lol. hope this helps me out of my current deckbuilding predicament and gets me somewhere with starting the process of building my first deck.
Of course!!
What's you're main issue with your deck atm?
Fishbowling is a vital, vital part of initial playtesting for me. There's nothing quite like seeing the probabilities materialising in front of you to hit things home.
Thank you for making this video, it was awesome. I have some decks I want to start working on and this gave me some direction and inspiration.
This video was fantastic. Very succinct and informative.
1:54 Mana production, interaction, RATS, ramp
Just 50 swamps, 48 Relentless Rats, a Thrumming Stone, and your favorite legendary rat is all you need.
Your advice is genius and a blessing.
Never heard of you, but I'm glad to have a new MTG tuber!
Awesome vid! Love the content❤❤
shikanokonokonokoshitantan
cool guide
and it is a fun journey to get gradually better at the game
and simple tip for newbies
BE REALISTIC
but don't be afraid to try (and fail) either~
This video is what i'll 6 be showing my new players. such a great video!
I consider myself a player who is experienced in constructed & competetive formats. I openen The Gitfrog, Ravenous Ride and immediatly thought "well, this is gonna be my first commander". As several of my friends who are not playing competative are starting with commander now. So I browsed my collection and immediatly had a "keeper pile" of more then 200 cards, and an online wishlist of more then 300€.
Im at the part of actualy deciding which cards to buy, that will maybe also go in other commander decks if they are expensive and overall usefull (like the great henge). and more importantly to build the actual deck without completly going nuts ordering cards that I'll then most likely not use.
I thought this video to be very helpfull, changed my approach after seing this!
I have a mono red dragons deck with Lathliss as the commander that tends to be slower than most decks I play against. Mono red needs lots of mana rocks to get the dragons out, lots of card advantage so it can survive boardwipes and play all of the necessary support cards, and lots of removal and boardwipes so you can prevent your opponents from getting so far ahead of you that you can’t catch up. The deck mostly works well- I spend the first 4-5 turns ramping and playing card advantage engines, I play a boardwipe or big removal spell on turn 5-6 to hinder opponents, then I start dropping dragons. I’m looking at making my interaction package smaller to afford more ramp cards in the deck, but it’s hard to know exactly what the right ratio is since some games I never cast my Tibalt’s Trickery, Eldritch Immunity, Warping Wail, or Null Elemental Blast (etc), but one out of 3 games they can be super impactful and can just win me the game on the spot, or keep me in the game for another couple of rounds. On the other hand, more ramp and draw is something I need every game, so it’s hard to weigh the pros and cons. What do you think?
Another topic I’ve been thinking about lately is having an enabler vs a payoff in the command zone. For my dragons deck, Lathliss, Dragon Queen is a payoff that helps make my dragons more impactful when I play them, which is often necessary to help swing through the horde of enemy tokens, eldrazi, and removal. However a commander like Purphoros, Bronze-Blooded could make dragons aggressive early, and get dragons stuck in the hand out on the field. Dragons are a good payoff for Purphoros to enable, but I find they often aren’t enough to win a game on their own. Thoughts? Thanks for the video!
My thoughts are that dragons are cool and lathliss makes twice as many dragons happen so she's the coolest. Miirym might be better with large dragons but lathliss is better with small dragons. That's what I think you have to lean into with her. Filling up the low end of the curve.
after board is full of dragons, swing out and then blasphemous act with wrathful red dragon in play and you'll kill the table easy. Dragons are tons of fun don't give up on lathliss she is great.
A few Weeks ago I held the card "Don Andres, the Renegade" in my hand.
I built a blue "I'll take over your deck" deck decades ago using "kitchen magic" and thought to myself... hey, that would actually be a cool commander to build such a deck. I can play things from the opponent's library, graveyard, or even from his hand.
But EHREC was no help at all. All the suggested cards were basically for a pirate tribal... Moxfield and Archiedeck was better for some suggestions.
Well it took a while but the first matches with the deck were fun.
Good video seems pretty inline with how I like to brew my decks. Nice to listen to and think about the deck I'm working on right now. I built a Radagast the Brown list but I'm really consider switching the commander to God-Eternal Rhonas or Six. Really struggling to decide which seems like the most fun
I love your unique commander choices, I’d love if you made a vid on making a deck with Chisei, Heart of Oceans since they’re very unique
im building a bunch of simple decks for my family and I, and this is very helpful :3
One of my favorite cards is Pyre of Heroes. It's a cheap Birthing Pod, but it requires you to keep creature types in mind. I have it in Wilhelt where it is just generally good, but Gravecrawler puts in a lot of work as fuel. Pyre can turn any zombie token into Gravecrawler, and then you can turn it into any 2-drop zombie. If that zombie is also a wizard, I can then turn it into Poppet Stitcher, which transforms into Poppet Factory very easily, making all my decayed zombies into reoccurring threats thanks to Wilhelt.
I also have a Golgari fling deck that has multiple options for face commanders (Jarad is the secret commander in the 99), but the one I've found great success with is Old Rutstein. It's cheap, non-threatening, helps fill up my graveyard, gives ramp in the form of treasures, blockers in the form of 1/1 insects, and occasionaly I get Blood tokens which have massive synergy with Dredge cards to fill up my graveyard.
I'm not particularly great at building decks, so I do rely on templates when starting out with the deck. A very important one to me, is that if I can include hard counterspells, I should only have 2-3 unless I am going all in on counterspells. They are valuable, but they can slow me down significantly if I draw too many. And if I want a looser counterspell, it should at least be able to counter Instants and Sorceries, since they are naturally harder to interact with (Swan Song is great for this).
Side note, in a game with three or more players, Arcane Denial is just a better Counterspell (easier to cast, same or better card parity across the whole table).
Does not miss
Great vid. Thanks for citing some good manabase resources ( at 12:23 ).
Frank Karsten is the closet thing we have to a real wizard on this planet
Very helpful, thanks! Returning back to mtg after .... 15+ years 😅
I love your process. Very similar to my own.
I don't even play EDH (modern and limited player at heart) but this video was incredibly insightful and actually wants me to make a commander deck. X3
Just build a cube using this into. Wait for next week’s video..
@@33elk I do have a legacy cube that I have been improving on but absolutely will use scryfall to make it that much better! ^w^
damn just found your channel and i absolutly love it!
Very helpful, been working on my favorite brew 5 color praetors and finding cards for it is always difficult due to how many synergies each card usually needs to fit in.
Need to finish my dimir sagas deck
great guide !
I am so happy and intrigued by this video because (with the exception of the calculator which I will be using from now on) your method to deck construction is very similar to mine. I'm going through this processes currently with an interesting commander: The Wandering Rescuer from the upcoming Duskmourn set.
It is a very atypical commander for sure and the puzzle has been hard to solve, but I can tell that they are just up my alley for my favorite style of play. (Hyper-Reactive & Very Patient instant speed play that lets me wait to act as long as necessary) I'm going to continue to work on it on my own but if I get stuck you will be the first to know.
When it comes to your 1st question, I have a couple of questions on playtesting: How much do you do test hands, goldfishing, and tweaking the list before you start building? More importantly, do you just go out and get the cards you want or do you proxy cards/substitute cards for a couple of days before making the purchase?
Very good video and I am glad we operate so similarly. Can't wait for more!
I only goldfish a little, your hypergeometric calculator tells you most of what you need to know. I'll play for free online before buying a deck. Sometimes i feel so strongly about a deck that i'll just up and buy it. I don't play with proxies but that is just a personal choice, you could have a 99 of all basic forests with sharpie on them and i don't think i'd really care.
One of my favorite decks is my edgar, charmed groom deck because at first glance the commander seems like it just wants to be a regular old vampire deck, but I use it as an aristocrats deck that almost exclusively aims to kill my commander since there is very little downside to doing so and I get another body to kill every upkeep with his backside. Over time I found weird little interactions with this, my favorite being with tevesh szat where I can get direct benefit off of killing my commander by drawing three cards! It’s changed a lot but it has felt so freeing design wise ever since I made that main change.
Hey man love this so much.
I'm probably doing the least optimal way to make a deck. Finding a card that looks cool and then basing the theme as much as possible off the artwork of that card.
{Crusade} is the theme card. And the recent Templar Knight release has definitely filled in the creatures list. i designed the deck a long while ago before the ban on {Crusade} and lost motivation to finish it till recently. So i'm currently going through new cards to see how i can improve it or fit the theme better. Its very Enchantment heavy and those templars want legendary artefacts. So i might swap some Enchantments for Equipment
Informative and cute! I love 3/3 Elk! ❤🎉
Struggling with a Herigast deck right now. The weirdo ability he has means I especially can't lean on any templates (though I definitely found them useful when building my first decks, just as a way to get a mediocre deck without the knowledge of how to do even that much.). I wanted to go big red - no eldrazi - and then I started finding a lot of fun synergies with threatens, molten primordial, etc. But playtesting is really inconsistent - sometimes it does fun, cool things, sometimes I mull to 4 and do nothing. I've used the hypergeometric calculator for other decks, but I think I'll try and categorize my cards better and use that to try to 'design' the early turns better. Thanks for this, lot of useful stuff.
Let everyone know how it goes!
I personally use EDHREC as a "here's how some people build X/Y/Z" I don't use it as a list, just a muse. I do need to work at using Scyfall more though.
I hardly open edhrec anymore I basically do it to get a light litmus of how people are building a deck as a point of comparison for my videos and in the last 10 seconds of a commander deck build to make sure I didn’t miss anything that was super blatantly obviously good.
You’re forgetting the most important step to proxy before you spend $300 just to realize the deck doesn’t function or isn’t fun to play
Banger
WOOOO caught it asap
I think the part that I didn't really follow too well was where you talked about finding synergies for synergies.
simply put once you find a card you like for your deck, don't stop there, if you really like it dig for cards that work with that card. Like you can go down a huge rabbit hole of synergy if you let yourself.
this is a great video. scryfall rules.
im not confused, but i think that it would be neat to make a video about how tribal decks can be made interesting. im trying to make a rats deck and struggling with making choices to make it feel like each game is samey.
Id say the most frustrating part of building a new deck is the playtesting because sometimes I'll get knocked out in 20-30 mins by established decks, and the group won't finish for another 2 hours. It makes me not want to try the deck again out of fear that im just not even going to be playing magic.
I've been traumatized by redoing an Azorius 25 Euros budget deck 5 times in a row. I think I'll truly appreciate to search some new clue cards on scrufall before making it a sixth time. Sixth is the charm, they say.
scryfall is going to help you so much its unreal. o:"each artifact you control" o:"draw your second card each turn" even just o:clue are all invaluable search terms for you
Basically the same process I used to build my Rosie Cotton deck, but I had to go an extra mile and tune it down a little because it felt unfair at times, from inoffensive token deck to combo finish everyone in one turn. It felt weird at first, but reducing the amount of tutors and fast mana made it more enjoyable to pilot and play against.
The tl;dr is that taking your playgroup and power lvl in mind when building was, for me at least, the last and most difficult part of the process
I really enjoy your channel. Just watched all ur vids. I really like how you broke down the synergies with Anafenza as u brought up some I would NEVER have considered before! I’m just recently starting to use scryfall more proficiently and it’s really helping.
Might I interest you in my new pet project: Diaochan artful beauty. I’m basing the goal of the deck to emulate that skit from “Friday Nights - Politics.” I’ve been brewing around with mono red vehicles to optimize for Diaochan’s ability never having a valid target on my board and forcing tough choices on my friends.
I’d love any thoughts on this
This video is really useful. Currently trying to brainstorm around “norika yamazaki, the poet”. I feel like the most straightforward way to build it is voltron auras, but i find that a little boring. I’m currently leaning towards a theme of sagas and other self-sacrifing enchantments, with maybe a sub-synergy of historic permanents. Still trying to figure out how to build a coherent strategy, and not just synergy soup though.
@@hectic-glow-clouds8723 sagas is a very cool way to go with that commander!
@@33elk And feels appropriate with the Poetry angle :)
You truly have managed to inspire me to start brewing again. Curse you.
(i kid, please keep doing what you do
Deck i took the longest to build was my Queen Marchesa Pillowfort / "you did this to yourself" deck. Balancing removal and "defleceting palm"-esque effects is a process i'm still involved in. On one hand I feel like winning with cards like "Inkshield" is huge fun, on the other hand, I still have to include classical wipes to not get blown over. Balancing this seeming nonbo will take some more time. I just ordered some new cards like "backlash" and "Comeuppance" to maybe lean another inch into that direction, though I'm not sure i wanna fully lean into it. I also tried to make my removal as dual-purpose as possible so i don't have a dead card when i wanna keep the opponents strongest beater as my win-con. Maybe I should consider swapping effects like "Blasphemous Act" out for "promise of loyalty"?
I like scryfall + sorting by EDHREC rank that is a bit more simple but sometimes you miss the new cards
Great guide! I’m glad that I had the right idea when I set out to build my Etrata deck. My only problem is playtesting. I’ve goldfished this thing to hell and back over the last month or so, but I can’t really play it online (‘cause of cloaking)… nor do I have a group of people to play it with IRL. Not really sure what to do about that.
lots of people play on table top sim or use cockatrice. there's a lot of discord communities for those. you can find friends from those communities you like and build a pod from them so you aren't just bound to play with a mixing pot of randoms which can get tedious.
I’ve tried Cockatrice, but stealing from the top of a library face down is basically impossible there as far as I’m aware. Same with Untap and Spelltable. I’ll try tabletop sim
@@davidhower7095 cockatrice just have everyone right click on their library and "play top card of library face down" then pass it to your side of the board.
that being said tts is much better for that thing
I personally have to disagree with your stance on templates, to a point. I think they're a good tool _when used properly,_ such as to build a rough draft of a deck. You'll have more or less a functional deck, and it takes a little pressure off getting a finalized product out. The problem being when you stick too religiously to the template, something I'm personally guilty of(...but I also don't tend to edit decks much after building em anyway, cuz if it ain't broke why fix it lmao). My current thoughts on templates are to use them for the rough draft, goldfish a couple times, then throw away the template and just figure out what the deck needs more or less of from there.
I've been building Baylen, the Haymaker the last couple days, to replace Atla Palani as my Naya commander. I've used a slightly modified template to piece together the deck, and now that it's assembled? I'm doing my editing process, since the goldfishing revealed a lack of tokens. I'm lowering the number of Advantage and Ramp, since the commander has that built in, and pumping token generators. If that doesn't fix the feel of the deck, I'll look again, and eventually we'll have a deck that feels synergistic and fun to play.
Not every deck building style is for everyone, mine won't be for you and yours may not be for me. But I think knocking templates as a tool is a bit too much, my deckbuilding improved dramatically after finding these things. Following my template has allowed me to catch up to my friend and his pod and successfully compete against them, it helped me to not forget important parts of a deck and keep track of how much of each effect I have.
I'm not saying you're entirely wrong, by any means, you have great points! I saved the video to favorites for a reason lol. I just think you're being a little critical toward templates and the decks that follow them.
@@laynegrey2003 templates might lessen deckbuilding stress but that’s not really a good thing. When you build a deck improperly with a calculator you learn from that. Not to mention there are decks innumerable that just can’t support a template (lurrus was just the example but she’s one among many. Templates just don’t do anything for them). It’s better just to learn how to crunch numbers with a calculator.
Another major problem with templates is that they seem to imply a lot of the time that categories are separate from eachother “30-40 synergy pieces” means literally nothing. You need to find that synergy yourself and your removal and advantage engines should feed into that synergy as often as possible. Deckbuilding templates just tell you to drop in 10 removal so you put in the best 10 removal and 10 ramp so you put in the best 10 ramp they never come with advice about how to overlap that with synergy in your deck whereas with a calculator you can set your own categories for what your deck needs and crunch it that way.
I dunno man I definitely believe that people can build decks in different ways but I truly believe that using a calculator leads to less need to playtest and iterate a deck because it’s giving you better curated info for your deck than a rigid template. You’ll arrive at the same point but one has a whole lotta extra work you didn’t need to do to get there.
I've been building a Coram, The Undertaker since mh3 had prerelease, and I can't For the life of me get a list finished with satisfaction. I want to make him big, and smash face, but I want to utilize his third ability as well. I think I should take a heavily self mill route but am not sure where to leverage payoffs best. I'd love to see how you would build Coram personally. Another great video though!
playtesting being 30 seconds of the entire video feels insane to me because out of all my decks the ones i enjoy playing the most are the ones i have playtested and tweaked the most
I just have the least to say about it. It is a good step to have but in reality you know whether a deck feels fun or not to play already I probably don't need to teach you that (hopefully) ahaha. The rest of this video is how to tweak that deck meaningfully after you get a vibe from playtesting.
To answer the video's question, I suck at Scryfall searches. I can never remember the codes and rules wordings. It's the single hardest aspect of finding sinergistic cards for me.
the syntax sheet is super useful
question! Youve made a really great and strong on youtube. how did you decide upon your name and icon, along side of your style of vid? cause this is really good and i cant wait to see more!
the elk is just a doodle i did in mspaint. as for style, i pretty much just ripped it from other youtubers; a simple format to talk about what i want.
a big point i wanted to make was to not have these videos age too poorly with time so for deck techs i only mention things i consider core to the deck that will basically never change
I feel like your approach is very easy to follow, and I very much appreciate that. Gonna try to use it when I rebuild my Rowan, Scion of War deck. I either won the game or I just died from paying life and getting countered lol.
You didn't mention it much in the video, but how do you feel about staples? Like sol ring going in every deck, or counterspell in every deck with blue? Even if they don't fit the theme the generic use is usually good, but it thins out deck space for the things that matter more
Staples are good cards generically but are not needed. Counterspell is kind of a staple, its kinda just part of a removal package, not really a staple. As for sol ring, not every deck should run it. For example, my pharika deck doesn't have any use for it when it gets milled and also is very color mana intensive so i dont run it in that deck because dorks and stuff. Sol ring is broken but i chose not to run it because i found dorks to be better. You can challenge a staple's place in your deck.
I actually wanna fight you to find out what a "fun deck" is like, this was an interesting video
I have a few deck techs on my channel if you want to see what kind of decks i play in paper
@@33elk ya, but its different to play it vs pilot it.
One of the things i always struggle with in my decks are stuff like the Thran Vigil/Evolution Witness combo. Cuz they're both just in the 99, so theres this worry that if i dont run tutors then why would i even bother including these cards in the deck
I never know how many combos or specific synergies I should put in the 99 that dont really interact with the commander. But at the same time that usually kinda leads me to being too all in on my commander and I end up just floundering while they're not on board
The combo there though isn't super intrusive since if you build your deck around using those cards fairly the fact that they do that combo is a bonus. Where you'd be getting lost in the sauce is if you included a discard outlet and syr konrad to turn it into a win on the spot since syr konrad and a discard outlets need fundamentally different decks. than a +1/+1 counter deck.
The evolution witnesss does interact with the commander and thran vigil is just another enabler for counters in the deck which is the same niche as the commander but its okay to have that overlap because you can't gaurentee the safety of your commander.
I don't really put combos in many of my decks, but if i did I'd try to make it so the cards do stuff by themselves. You see this a lot with ivy lane denizen + scurry oak/herd baloth in +1/+1 counter decks like all those cards are just good independently in that deck
3/3 elk video lets go!!!!! I wish you had a discord!
maybe someday but honestly the idea of moderating the thang really puts me off it.
Yeah, that's the simple way to build a deck. Good.
I personally am working on the hardest deck to build I've ever worked on, a toolbox sunforger deck, it is very slow, but the same principles apply
I have built sunforger plenty of times and it can make use a of a lot of this info for sure.
@@33elk Oh ! Any tips ?
Thanks, from France
@@pajurr9437 mistveil plains to return spells from graveyard to library, knight of the white orchid to go fetch for it.
leonin shiraki to re-equip on opponent's turns and an effect that can let you equip for free is killer.
@@33elk yup ! Got all that in, thank you ! If you think of something else, I am here !
@@33elk If you have to choose, Do you prefer flash speed with Leonin shikari, or negate the equip cost with a Fervent Champion for example?
I do have an actual question. In terms of evalutation at 9:36 , I have thought to myself many times. "man +1 +1 would go hard if X happened", which you are right, how do I place myself into those scenarios coming often. So I would either need to make a consistent go wide theme, or somehow beable to keep the board alive. (Example, Call back to your previous video Sephara deck, anthems, etc). What i am asking here is, since the scenario may not come up often? Should I:
A) Get more +1+1s for the chance it comes by often
B) Try making more frequent things
or
C) stop trying to do both at once and just let the commander do the work? ( I fear if i do this though, then the issue comes that if the commander dies, then I am left with a very slow paced wide deck)
(This question is for my falco deck oddly enough)
This does sound like an issue of too many directions. Note at the end of the anafenza breakdown i said that a deck is not good if you split in multiple different directions. I am not sure if falco is best served by a go-wide theme. Counters inherently go tall. There are a few exceptions to that rule (ivy lane denzien combos) but generally i would be tenative to do so. You can double dip on packages too
counterspells keep your board alive but also are effective as """removal.""" And therefore fufill both niche of protection and pro-activity. Your deck shouldn't go all in on synergy these counterspells are good too. I can't stress enough to use the hypergeometric calculator for seeing if you have a high enough density of counter generators so you can use falco effectively
@@33elk the issue is, i like to go wide with falco cause everyone keeps removing my big fat counters if i over invest into a single card
I’ve been thinking and brewing Child of Alara deck because of the Hatsune Miku Secret Lair Cards. The requirement is I must use all Miku Secret lair 1, and 2 in the deck.
I’ve tried the building around Feather The Redeemed, but in 5 colours but didn’t like how it turned out. Thoughts?
I’ve been struggling for other ideas. Help or other themes would be appreciated.
I'm a bit scared with the "synergies of synergies" part, as in one might fall into the pitfall of having cards that synergize two by two, but not as a whole, and conversely checking if all your cards work with all your other cards is an exponentially (polynomially?) hard task
the other thing I'm curious about is control decks
I'm very stuck on ratios/playtesting with one because the gameplan is so dependent on what other players are doing, and I can't bring it down to 100 cards
for the synergies of synergies so long as you're sticking in your theme you'll be fine most of the time
as for your issue, cut the cards in consideration of your mana curve and also the cards that have the least/weakest application
thank you !
limiting it to one subtheme makes sense, I kinda thought of it as running away with whatever cards work well together
and I'll try doing that ! Since the deck is a lot of interaction (that you're not trying to play on curve) and a lot of X draw spells it is a bit hard to figure out but I'll try out some heuristics
Ummm ok based and subbed
How do you get your ratios right?
I built an aristocrates deck (Thalia & Gitrog as commander) and I need 3 different card types: sacrifice fodder, sacrifice outlets, sacrifice payoffs (and maybe some kind of recursion like eerie ultimatum). And I also need interaction and mana acceleration etc. However, when I play with friends, I always draw only one part of the engine but never seem to get the deck to work, even though the commander is obviously strong.
Gosh i wish my judith video could come out faster! I talk briefly about this in that script. This being said, like i said sadly its more of an eyeball game than anything. What percentage of the time do you wanna see your first sac outlet? Your second? This is literally all what sounds good to you. Does missing 20% of the time in your first three draws + mulligan sound like a reasonable percentage to you? Probably increase it if not.
run these things through the calcuator until you get numbers that sound consistent enough to *you*. From there it's all playing the deck, that tells you more than i could here. Doing the calculator stuff will at least give you a better jumping off point than a template telling you to "run 30 synergy cards" though.
My process is always the same: come up with with a dumb idea, spend entirely too much money ordering stuff, put cards together, realize I have like 180 cards, spend weeks agonizing over what to cut, look up decks on moxfield as references on what to cut because edhrec is useless, realize 5 different themes isnt going to work, cut 3 of them and relqize I have 86 cards, fill the deck with necessary synergies making intelligent cuts and changes here and there. Play test it online with people and then get late arriving cards in the mail I ordered and forgot about it. Cry trying to fit these cards...
Then I realized a new set came out since it's every 5 days now and then I give up entirely and start over on a new deck
At what stage are you considering power level? Are you making that decision during the research stage limiting cards to match a specific level or are you building the most powerful deck you can with your research and finding it out during playtest?
A mixture of both! The card evaluation stage also helps with this process. This guide only helps with the finding of synergistic cards. Once you've done so it's up to you to find out which ones belong in your playgroup by using your card evaluation skills of what cards have and have not worked for you and your friends. For example, if your playgroup hates playing against gravepact, its probably not a good idea to put dictate of erebos in your dimir flash deck. But Butcher of Malakir may be fine because its so much more expensive. It'll depend on your group so its hard to say for sure.
Excellent work, elk fella
I'm in a privileged position, but you should try asking your friends for help. Sometimes a change in perspective is all you need
Lol I feel so bad at deck building when I watch this 😂 like finding leave graveyard synergies for the witness
hey, im loving your approach to deckbuilding, you catch a lot of nuances i often miss when searching for synergies.
i'd love to ask, do you have any idea how to make an Elesh norn, Grand Cenobite deck but without going wide/stax? i absolutely love the card, but find those playstiles.. pretty boring. i was hoping you could help :>
also keep up the good work!
sadly elly norn doesn't really have much going on besides being a broken anthem which means you should probably be going wide with her. Maybe you can lean into a phyrexian matters kinda deck?
@@33elk aw, yeah its fair. thanks a lot!
Norn the Cenobite really excels as a card in the 99 of either another elesh norn or something like brimaz blight of Oreskos
someday i will build a deck other than a wubrg pile of ramp and cards i like
A card that needs a video analysis: *Evil Eye of Orms-By-Gore* and by extension Evil Eye of Urborg. Besides the "Donate" strategy, and adding Changelings, is there any way to build a deck around Evil Eyes ??
i dont think those cards are very interesting besides nostalgia factor, haha. 5 mana 3/6 unblockable and the other one a 6/3 that has slightly better deathtouch.
that being said duskmourn probably has some eye synergy right? i unno
Evil eye of Orms-By-Gore fans rise up! One of my favorite names on a magic card, "Orms-By-Gore" is just so goofy, second only in goofyness to "Shungus Nod, fleshcrafter" quoted on Dreg Reaver