What makes irish stick fighting unique?
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- čas přidán 8. 09. 2024
- So someone asked what exactly is unique about Irish stick fighting so I thought I would outline some of the ways that this art is unique from others. Again a massive topic so if you have any follow up questions let me know.
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/ kernschoolofcombat
/ theramblingkern
/ theramblingkern
I am german , 56 now. When i was a child/ teenager you could see on hiking tours elder men with wooden canes. Most had hook grips/ handles, but some had a rather thick end and looked like the Keule/ club of ,Wilder Mann' shown on many old german woodcuts. But in rural houses selfcut sticks ( called ,Stecken') of hazelnut or blackthorn had been next to backdoor. As auxillary weapon , or to drive runaway hens back to stable.
That is fascinating. I often wonder how many of these traditions had a lot of useful information in them that has since been forgotten.
@@ramblingkern : This ,Stecken' , a craftsman made cane was in my region called ,Stock', like in Standard German, had been used as an auxillary tool in garden or farm. To scare other peoles cats away from your vegetables, as an auxillary whip when the cattle trader came, as a cane ( when grandfather couldn t find his one), to take thrown childrenstoys out of tree branches ...
As a weapon this not so thick sticks had not so much power to crush bones, but additional to hit force there was also a kind of whip effect, so not as dangerous than strong sticks or clubs. Today my region has become more urban than rural, so this Stecken at backdoor are now rare.
@@brittakriep2938 Thats fascinating sounds almost like a European equivalent of a Sjambok.
@@ramblingkern : There was formerly also another Instrument used as whip ( and sometimes as weapon). It was called Ochsenziemer (Ox educator?) or Farrenschwanz ( breedig bulls tail) and was, when it was not simply a joke, made of dryed bull penises skin. There had been long ones, and shorter ones looking like a screw/ twisted(?). Sometimes, but not seen by myself, a not to thin wire was iserted before drying. A hit with such an item is painfull also with lesser force, but you can' t parry with it. For years now i have no more seen this, i also don' t know, who once made this.
@@brittakriep2938 It is a real shame when these crafts start to vanish. But amazing that you have memory of such fascinating things.
Well, there's nothing quite like settling a disagreement with a good old-fashioned stick fight in the gutter after a few too many pints. Of course, I'm not advocating for drunken brawls or anything, but let's just say that there's a certain charm to the old ways.
Great stuff, thanks for sharing. It's incredibly interesting, & yes, videos of hitting stuff is always great! It would be interesting to learn more about the stick's construction or the process of creating them, as well as anything about how long they've been in use (in various forms). It's such a fascinating martial art, & it's a wonder & a blessing that any traditional styles at all have survived.
Thank you mate appreciate the support and that gives me a few nice ideas for videos. I will have to get in touch with some stick makers while I know the method I would like to get hands on knowledge.
Interesting stuff would like to learn more 👍
There are lots more videos on my page but there are also plenty of online learning opportunities for Irish stick too.
I think that a lot of the uniqueness you're talking about in regards to the grip style and position is an evolution from axe fighting. It's referenced from topographica hibernia that the irish would carry axes as walking sticks and would employ them to great effect with one hand, so if you take a cane length axe the 1/3 grip would be the only reasonable way to wield it singlehandedly. In penal times when your axe has been taken away it's logical to assume the same combat techniques would be transferred to a weapon they could argue wasn't a weapon and evolve from there
sounds lethal
I have a stick much the same thanks for the information Alec from Scotland
You are very welcome mate.
Good info on grip. Thanks
very cool glade to see more channels on this topic.
Good information, thanks for posting.
You are very welcome
When I was a teenager, I was doing Ninpo and I only did a few classes. I was asked to bring in a stick for training and brought my granda's blackthorn in. The Sensei was not impressed ha
That's still a solid choice to bring haha
Thanks for this mate
You are very welcome.
I wish I were in a position to learn these techniques. Unfortunately, my health, my finances, and my geographic location are all against my chances. I might still get one someday.
There are a few instructors around the globe you may find some out there.
Good stuff, mate. Would be cool to see some similar training videos with the stick like you did with the C& E
For sure will get them done need to get some sparring with the class. Thanks to covid we can't use loaner gear anymore so has made things tricky.
Great content sir. Do you think you may do some videos showing some practice drills we can do at home? Thanks
Hi Erik I may show some videos in the coming future of some of the drills we use but unlikely to do too many as I feel this material is best learnt in person.
@@ramblingkern that's understandable. Thanks for the reply. I will be sure to subscribe so I don't miss anything. Thanks again.
@@yeayeayea9353 anytime I will post some drills in the coming weeks as some of the most important basics are similar across all disciplines.
@@ramblingkern 👍
thanks
You are very welcome
Thanks good information would be nice to see some moves 👌
Fascinating. the bulb at the end was a knot which was specifically cut off to be incorporated in an otherwise straight stick I suppose? It reminds me of the Iroquois fighting clubs/sticks, which often incorporated knots like these. The sticks also were thrown.
Some were carved from the root bulbs and some from braches.
In my 70's now, been Irish the entire time.
I use a heavier Shillelagh with a hole in the Pug for a lash strap.
Many an ignorant lad has suffered under the wrath.
Much to learn Gille, learning is the beginning.
Can't teach less that is accomplished.
This vid has not taught anyone much at all.
Not too sure what your comment means but thanks for checking out my work.
@@ramblingkern I believe my comment is clear. Just trying to help. Ask on if you wish..... I will respond.
@@ramblingkern You will never learn. Can not teach what you do not know gille. Another blabber mouth with nothing to say....
Does anyone know anywhere near Belfast, where I can train this system?
never leave home with out it
Great video! Any tips for places to buy said stick? I live in Norway, not many shillelaghs to buy around here.. am 1,86m tall. Thanks for any tips!
Liam in the olde shillelagh shop you can purchase online and does great work.
I live in the parish where the last faction fight took place. I was at a friend's house recently, an old homestead, and I found an old bata hidden behind a wall. He thought it was a walking stick until I showed him how I could knock his teeth out with it.
Where can I get a proper bata?
There are a number of makers around I have some from Liam in the town of shillelagh you will find his store online and he ships to most places
Hey Nathan, I was looking to get inot learning about this with areal blackthorne and wanted to know if you could recommend a place to get one high quality enough rather than just a tourist stick, and also if youd recommend other alternatives from real blackthorne while training instead, thanks a load!
If you want a good stick I have some from Liam who runs the olde shillelagh shop and he ships pretty much anywhere. For training I did a video on the topic it depends on what your training will involve I prefer ratan as it's close in weight and can be used for sparring but some people make their own hardwood versions that you can see in my second coconut video.
I'm absolutely shocked that this Irish stick fighting with a walking cane is not all the rage in the United Kingdom. You can't have a firearm there so it's all physical. Most of the street gangs have a knife. Everybody who goes hand-to-hand against a knife says it's it's very likely you will get caught because they're close enough to you they've got an edged weapon and you don't have anything longer. If you have a good walking cane in your hand will you see him reaching his pocket you can hit that hand while it's in that pocket real hard and you probably will break it and make it hard for him to hold a knife. That's what a person of your caliber and talent should do but for somebody like me I just need to hit him when he reaches in that pocket somewhere between his shoulder and his wrist. That's a giant target. I've heard the street gangs now and Britain will stab you in the anus so you have to wear a colostomy bag. If you could from old Irish stick-fighting in British cities so you can't stab somebody so easy, you could have Irish stick fighting with a lot of development research growth and all of it on camera.
Spot on especially with all the illegal immigrants getting into Britain we don't know what crimes they have committed in their own country the police don't bother about shoplifters anymore it's left to the shopkeeper to protect their shop rapist don't get sent to prison anymore even useful against dog attacks to protect your dog
Just a couple question. Do you do cudgel/shillelagh and buckler work? Was this ever a thing in Ireland? And, any books you would recommend on this subject? Thanks for the share!!
It could have been a thing but the period where it was most popular was a few hundred years after their use. I have done stick and buckler with the dog brothers but nothing Irish stick related. John Hurley has some books on the topic but they are a little dated and biased in some areas. Maxime chouinard has a fantastic blog on the area though.
We call it hurling. It’s an Irish team sport.
@@StepDub it's called bataireacht and it's an Irish martial art.
@@ramblingkern someone’s got a bata up their thóin
@@StepDub it's the warmest place to keep it
So, then, is the ideal length of the stick three cubits (elbow to the end of a closed fist) ???
It depends who you ask within the Doyle style I believe it is the lenght of both close fists and forearms plus 6 inches. Another video idea for me to do now.
@@ramblingkern So, is it really more of an offset thirds grip positions, then?
My teacher would say that people used sticks as long as four feet long. I would say the minimal length to use a stick in Antrim Bata without changing any aspects of the techniques is the length of both closed fists and forearms. You can use shorter sticks (and longer ones) but certain techniques will stop being applicable, or you will need to change how you make certain strikes.
@@maximechouinard8902 perfectly put :)
@@maximechouinard8902 The four feet, or longer, sticks represent the older original medieval style.
It's similar to a Zulu knobkeri.
It is indeed.
to my knowledge it is the only style of fighting that you fill your hat with straw.
Everything else can be found in other disciplines
There are certain things that are unique and sure you can find elements in various systems but often not all in the one place.
fair enough but form what I have seen most of it is variations on a theme. Whatever works @@ramblingkern
I kind of disagree with the idea that you need flexibility that little bit of springing is that's going to absorb too much energy when I strike. The lightweight stuff is okay especially if you're fighting a fast human being who is hard to hit. I prefer something a little heavier and completely stiff like a half inch water pipe. I want to be able to kill a pit bull in one swing. If you hit him with that really lightweight stick that has some flex it takes all day long to beat a pitbull to death. If a pitbull head hold somebody he can't move very fast he's working his head around and when I hit him right in the middle of the back, with that half-inch water pipe made out of iron, it's very likely going to bust that spine and separate so part of the dog is paralyzed.
Check out my skull analogue test a single light hit from a light stick was enough to fracture a skull. The idea of these sticks is that they were also often walking sticks so something like a steel pipe or mace is fine for its use but it's a different weapon and has different needs.
@@ramblingkern there's a lot of mathematics involved in a collision. The advantage to the flexibility is it comes back quickly for the next strike. The skull is shattered and cracked by the kinetic energy. When I hit a pitbull in the back , I'm not trying to shatter something brittle. I'm trying to move that vertebrae. I never trained headshots much. Most of the boxing I did we didn't do headshots just for comfort. I'm always worried about the judge getting me in court with my pants down. If you hit somebody in the stomach and it hurts just as long as they're bloody nose or black eye, it doesn't look good in a picture to have a bruise on your ribs it's not really dramatic. If you hit somebody in the head with a cane that could be considered deadly force. These people doing the choke holds, don't realize most places in America it's a strangulation felony and you escalated to deadly force. You have no self-defense claim because you have stopped the threat. Now you are committing a felony with deadly force. People need to think about court if you think about it ahead of time with your training and realize that you are fatal it doesn't hurt yourself confidence and it might keep you out of jail.
I like my Blackthorn
Thanks, God bless John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Too long of a boring intro get on to the subject