Interview: COLIN RENFREW on Cycladic Civilization and Archaeology - Tiny Epics History
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- čas přidán 4. 08. 2024
- Interview: Prof Colin Renfrew on Cycladic Civilization and Archaeology
0:00 Introducing Colin Renfrew
0:41 Recent Excavations on Keros
2:18 Goddess or Not?
4:50 Symbolic Attractor
6:10 The Crisis of Looting
7:57 Forgeries/Harpist
9:00 Cycladic Sculpture in Context
9:58 Goulandris Museum of Cycladic Art
12:15 Archaeogenetics
13:40 Rescuing the Past
14:38 One Human Family
15:56 Most Exciting Moment?
Link to documentary "The Enigma of Keros":
www.ertflix.gr/ellinika-docs/...
The photos used in this video were borrowed from Wikimedia Commons, Public Domain images from various museums, and a variety of other sources to better illustrate the educational topics discussed and therefore fall under Fair Use. If you are the copyright owner of one of the photos used, please let me know in the comments and I will gladly credit your photo. This video is not monetized and is intended for educational purposes only.
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This is a very special episode today because I’m joined by an absolute legend in the field of archaeology: professor Colin Renfrew.
Professor Renfrew’s achievements include many important excavations and discoveries from the Early Bronze Age and beyond. His work has changed the way we understand prehistory, and he’s raised awareness on the crisis of looting in order to help preserve humanity’s invaluable cultural heritage. He’s currently a Senior Fellow of the McDonald Institute for Archaeological Research at the University of Cambridge.
Professor Renfrew’s involvement with Keros stretches back to 1963, when he first discovered broken fragments of figurines lying about on the hillside on the western edge of the island. He’d been told about the looting that had already taken place on the island by his friend and fellow archaeologist Christos Doumas, but he didn’t expect to find so many broken objects left lying around on the hillside, likely discarded by looters in search of complete and therefore more lucrative objects.
Between 2005-2008, new excavations lead by Colin Renfrew discovered an undisturbed deposit of fragments on the western edge of Keros. This deposit contained broken objects similar to the ones he’d intially found in 1963.
Many questions were raised: why were the recent and undisturbed finds also found broken and why did the majority of these fragments not fit together?
It was a riddle with a surprising resolution: apparently the fragments had been deliberately broken and brought to Keros to be deposited there during a kind of pilgrimag. Professor Renfrew believes that the breaking of the figurines and other goods were part of a ritual and that Keros was chosen as a sanctuary to preserve the effects.
We began talking about those discoveries on Keros and the conversation flowed from there. We touched on a range of topics such as whether or not these prehistoric people worshipped a deity, the crisis of looting, and how through cognitive archaeology and the use of scientific method it’s possible to partially reconstruct the lives of people who existed thousands of years before our own time.
Here’s the interview that took place between myself and professor Renfrew on November 10th, 2020.
#archaeology #ancientcivilization #cycladic
00:41 Recent Excavations on Keros
2:18 Goddess or Not?
4:50 Symbolic Attractor
6:10 The Crisis of Looting
7:57 Forgeries/Harpist
9:00 Cycladic Sculpture in Context
9:58 Goulandris Museum of Cycladic Art
12:15 Archaeogenetics
13:40 Rescuing the Past
14:38 One Human Family
15:56 Most Exciting Moment?
In love with your posts, I really needed them!
Fascinating . All new to me. Thankyou
The Noble Professor and the Gentle and intelligent questions... Bravo ! Very touching and accurate. A Greek friend, Demetrios Maniates. (I swim on these waters)
Wonderful. Greetings from Brazil
Thanks for your comment!
Tiny Epics But Great Videos and Interviews
Thanks for this rare interview! Cycladic archaeology is exploding and Renfrew's clarity (via good questions) is exemplary---like his revised views of works by groundbreaker Marija Gimbutas on woman-and-goddess-centered cultures (see his YT lecture with title "Lord Colin Renfrew: Marija Redivia"). Meanwhile, re-thinking the figurines goes on, for ex. Lucy Goodison seeing M/F "shaman" figures for guiding the dead to afterlife. Yet a "matriculture" (bonded rather than "ruled" by focus on female origins/processes of life), as one comment here says, "embodies an inner knowledge that coexists harmoniously with life at every level, personal, collective, political [etc.]". Goddess, family, woman, spirit-guide are not mutually exclusive. In "The Enigma of Keros" Renfrew calls the figures images of the community---hence one that images itself mostly in figures of powerful females. Earth/ancestors/people coexist in the whole eternal now. Again, thanks to Tiny Epics for making our very positive original inheritance so much more palpable, especially in critical times like these.
i truly cannot see how changing one cult view with another brings anything new or ''ground-braking'' to the table ... i also am astounded by the lack of presentation of the astronomical aspect of many of the findings on the Cyclades or why they keep consistently failing to refer to them as Greeks .. i guess it won't fit the narrative of Babylonian astronomy invention nor the rest of the bull they serve since the late 1800s
I totally agree about the MET harpist, even if I m not an expert. When I saw it, nearly 20 years ago I was very puzzled about its origins. The same doubts I hold about a Vermeer painting of the same museum...
PS Thank you for this most interesting interview. How impressive everything he says.
My pleasure! Glad you enjoyed it. I now will never see the Met harpist the same, that’s for sure. It always looked a bit off when compared to other, authentic Cycladic sculptures but I was naive enough to think: well it’s in the Met it must be authentic.
@@TinyEpics My point: he has ears, no other sculpture of this period has, signs for eyes, but we know eyes were painted, dubious hands, but the worst is the mouth {Greeks tried to give less prominence to the mouth in their icons till the Byzantine painting era, that must for archetypal reason, though very apparent...
I know there’s a few “monumental” Cycladic figures that have ears. The head from Amorgos at the National Archaeological Museum in Athens and I believe one in the Goulandris collection. But that seems to be a trait reserved only for the very large figures, so that makes sense what you say in relation to the other smaller figures. The earlier Cycladic figures (Grotta-Pelos culture) show more carved mouths, but as you say this is not a feature of the later figures from the Syros-Keros culture.
@@TinyEpics Hi Lance, I have to thank you because you have shaken my lazy convictions, built on a few visits at the Archaeological Museum and at the Goulandris collection in Athens, the museum of Heraklion, which has a sizable collection of Cycladic idols, and various museums in Europe. Anyway, this isn't something I do daily and it is quite a while since I saw one in person. Luckily, I don't need to trust my feeble memory or the abused Google because I have books about the subject, and I've spent the afternoon consulting them, even if I don't know the hiding place of my most treasured one...
Ok, I watched the pictures of "The Cycladic Spirit " by Colin Renfrew, "Aegean Weaves" by C. Stompolidis & Peggy Sotirakopoulou, the Kunst der Cycladen, some specimens in "Idols, the power of Images" which is a catalog about the Ligabue Collection, exposed in Venice a few years ago. The biggest book is nowhere to be found, pity. Keep on later, knocking at the door...
Great videos, keep them coming!
Thanks so much! Another interview, this time about the Minoans, is on its way!
awesome job
Thanks so much!
This is great
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed it.
And another comment from a viewer:
SΩΜΑ-DO Healing Movements
1 day ago
@Tiny Epics Channel We called "Tama", (tamata in plural) this is a greek tradition that still is today in the orthodox religion! And I want to notice how strong is the Greek tradition is timeless and goes through the centuries and a Greek archaeologist knows very well that tradition is the beginning of every civilization.
Tradition is a way of vision and knowledge that is transmitted from generation to generation, passes through the filters of social and moral differences and therefore reaches its respective societies always correct and respected.
It embodies an inner knowledge that coexists harmoniously with life at every level, personal, collective, political, it is a universal transmission and universal experience, since the only thing that differs substantially in each of its societies is only the size and quality of this transmission and experience. .
Here you understand that the Greeks never left their homeland, it was and still is here! Take care all!
well you are not indigenous according to the mainstream view , you are indo-europeans from the steppes of central Asia .... who miraculously learned to navigate open seas and mastered setting up mining operations without permanent settlements in the area (we all know mining season is like harvesting season and you don't need to be there the whole time, you just go in the summer when the ore is ready and pick it up) ... this madness needs to stop immediiatly
I posted this interview previously, but was not entirely pleased with the overall image/audio quality so I cleaned it up and have posted this new version for you all instead. I wanted to add the comments here which obviously got deleted from the previous upload.
Hecatonicosachoron
2 days ago
I have been fascinated by the cycladic marble sculpures for decades... They are truly enigmatic...
Is it possible that they are similar to what in modern Greece are called "tamata"? Dedications for healing of a particular body part? Because there appear to be particular body parts emphasised by painting... and the painting was occasionally reused... so the folded arms figure is like a figurine for protection for postpatrum mothers, who could be at a high risk of postpatrum complications.
I m sure that the apotropaic motivation is fundamental in the creation of sculptures. I want to read an article on Fortean Times about the "Animated Sculptures", forms without a soul that could be possessed by the spirits, worst if they are evil. Besides we have the portraits in Serdabs meant for the Ka, after that I will write to you...
I would have liked to have heard Dr. Renfrew’s opinion on WHY Dhaskalio became an “attractor”? What was it about that place might have first brought people to it? What hold did it have on their imaginations such that they returned again and again?
Renfrew is right about the "Harp Player" being a fake, it clearly doesn't follow the trends of the carved symbolic abstract human traits when compared with their other genuine statues or compact with the other harp player
Right, it is a fake. Almost impossible for such a complex sculpture to be found in situ intact after four thousand years.
Apologies for my delay, I've got unforeseen stuff to do, Back to my intention to compare the Metropolitan Harpist with similar specimens for the purpose of justifying - or not - my gut-feeling that is fake. Of course, I m not a scientist, a serious graduate, or whatever, I m just an amateur full of passion for Aegean art & history so, please, don't take me seriously, better if you can laugh at my weekend reasonings, at least I can offer you some fun time. Most of the Cycladic statuettes represent (supposed) pregnant women with crossed arms between the swollen belly and their breasts. They are static and quite bidimensional. The exceptions at this model, for what I know, could be gathered together in a few categories of depiction: some heads (a reproduction of the Louvre's one is next to my bed) some musical instrument players, men sitting on a throne or on a footstool, with a wine baker in their hand ( I m sure it's wine!), the acrobats, and the Hunters,( 2 pieces, male and female, with the braid around their torsos) which are post canonical type, but they have eyes. Instead of the pregnant women, all these marble depictions are very 3D, they extend their limbs in the space around them, and for this reason, they interact with the viewer. Lance - rightly - made me remember that some of them have ears, eyes, and mouths, so I went back to my books to check it out
No need to justify. I also think the harpist is a fake. I was actually agreeing with you :-)
And thanks for sharing your insights. Happy to meet someone who is also enthusiastic about this fascinating Early Bronze Age culture.
What I've found are 2 heads: 1 at the Goulandris ( next time simplified with a "G") and 1 at the Archaeological Museum, Athens (= A.M.A, if I need to repeat) which have: long neck + lips + ears, the other one has tiny almond signs in relief indicating eyes and mouth. Then we have a big pregnant woman, with ears, and 2 small statuettes: the female one has a dry carved stripe for the mouth, the male one has 2 circulars, drilled holes for eyes, no mouth, and he dons a necklace, just like the "Hunter". I didn't consider the artifacts with "ghost" eyes and tattoos, which is the sign of paint that protected from corrosion the marble surface. Obviously. At this point, I went back to checking the music players category, which allegedly counts only a dozen specimens. With the help of the Internet for finding the pictures, I saw that only the Metropolitan one possesses that galore of definition. Flute players and harpists are barren, with no sensory carved expression. The only indication that something was expressed in sculpture is the head, turned up as if for inspiration. Of course, paint could have spoken a lot more to the customers of such objects. Lucky them!
The same absence of definition characterizes the other "categories "as well: nothing carved on the faces of the cup-bears, dancers, and acrobats, at all. Some expressions and narratives could have been painted on their faces but I remember a lesson I learned about folk African art: "Primitive" artists refuse to portray humans realistically in fear of the evil eye: if somebody could be recognized for his/her looks or for his actions in a sculpted portrait, it becomes potentially the victim of other people's malevolence. Of course, a dancer could very easily inspire artists, and the responsible artist will portrait him for his overwhelming fascination, but at the same time, he protects him/her giving absolutely no hint to specifically recognize him. The same, more so, counts for the cup-holders: we have at least 1 man and 1 female frozen in time while sitting on their chairs and toasting for some specific reason, a reason that can remember and that can give hints for the specific situation for good and bad intentions. Artistic- Anthropologica Paranoia!
At the end of my superficial and incompetent analysis, I decided to stay on my previous ground, and I Proclaim the Metropolitan Harp-player FAKE, once again.
Now I go back to the Fortean Times magazine and their article about "living sculptures", In the meanwhile - Lance- since you are best competent, I'll ask you a favor: looking back at the pictures in my books after a while, I've seen again something it let me in awe: the "acrobatic" and canonic statuette of a pregnant woman, like many others, but with another smaller woman standing on her head. Do you have any information about it?
Hello, are you familiar with Lepenski Vir and Vinča cultures from the Balkans?
Hey there , i see you are serious about this and makes me happy , on the other hand though, i feel uneasy when i see ''experts'' that claim expertise without a full body of evidence... or ''experts'' that have collectively made academic careers on one single theory/paper circulated among their species for literally 10s of decades ... Next time ask the kind professor , why all these statues look up at a very specific angle ? Is there any answer (they chose to overlook/ignore/not-mention) to that, perhaps from other science fields that can actually be called science because they base their knowledge on mathematical/empirical/experimental/repeatable observations instead of fairytale theories of cults or whatever equivalent, while at the same time fail to see any practicality to practices of humans of an other era... Or ask the kind professor next time, about his friends and his Indogermanen-Aryans (aka Indo-Europeans) cult following , how is it possible that the places/people that actually exhibit civilization almost as far back as the Ice-Age (see the site of Gobekli Tepe, Anatolia) were invaded and influenced by peoples (Proto-Indo-Europeans) from a place that at that time would be covered by miles of ice (hence it can't support life, let alone civilization)... these absurdities that audiences (both academic and non) seem to overlook , they just are mindboggling ... Or ask the experts about technicalities in the dating methods, ranges, possible mistakes, rate of accuracy, DNA sampling, DNA analysis problems, assumptions that are within the techniques, validation methods, you know the actual science stuff, the hard questions.... Sorry for my rant dear youtuber , i sincerely would like a plausable answer either by an expert or by an amateur and keep up digging for hard evidence that can withstand any challenge ... then we might be able to say we ''know'' facts!
or ask the kind professor , why is the southern ape (australo-pithecus) a better candidate for evolving to human that the two much older european apes found in the mediterranean region (graecopithecus and the other escapes me). How can we date a specimen from a period back in time that the number (of years) we so easily speak out, we cannot even comprehend or actually count (i.e. millions) ... why do we accept arbitrary nummerics as factual truth ? why do we dogmatically evangelize it to herds of ignorant students and accept them to repeat that crap in order to obtain their ''experts'' certification (i.e. degree from the college they attended) ?
P.s. i am not a creationist
@@epimetheus9053 Because there are more numerous humanoid animal bones found in Africa at an earlier time period than the Hiedlebergensis, Neanderthal, Modern Human, Devonian, and Homo Erectus skeletons later to be found in Europe. People don't realize that Homo Erectus have been found in India, Asia, and southern Europe. Carbon Dating relies on the ratio of Carbon-14 compared to Carbon-12 in a living thing.