Ignition coils and HT leads
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- čas přidán 30. 09. 2017
- This video looks at outboard ignition coils and HT leads. Ignition coils have a primary and secondary coil inside them that steps up to the voltage needs to make a spark. There are two main types of ignition: inductive and CDI.
For outboard repair information, checkout my website: outboard.dangarmarine.com/guide
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A common theme among every good teacher or instructor I’ve had is the ability to simplify complex ideas or theories.
Your explanation of ignition coils made perfect sense to me, and I really appreciate that.
Thank you, and keep up the good work Stu!
Your videos are excellent. Like your sense of humour when working on boats.
Thanks mate!
your knowledge has helped countless times. great presentation. Cheers from Florida USA
Very informative Stu , simple ,direct ,excellent!!
Thanks Andrew. :)
Great video! Tons of awesome info, especially all the different failure modes.
Thanks Sean, glad you liked it. :)
Lovely thanks! I learnt a lot!. Glad to see you have a sponsor too! Well done.
Thanks Jeff, glad you enjoyed the video. :)
ive learn so much watching your you tube videos. and i thank you for that.
Great job Stu! I just got my new phone In galaxy s8, and now I can watch your vids clearly. I had an old s5 that was badly cracked so I couldn't see the vids very well. I now see how high quality your vids really are, lol. Thanks again
Thanks Jim, congratulations on the new phone! :)
Appreciate all your input Stu!
Detailed and thorough..another good video.Keep 'em coming.
Thank you!
Thanks, I have a Suzuki DT65 not running on the bottom cylinder. Cleaned the carburetor, now i'll check coil.
I've been using marine engine for some old evenrude parts. Been real happy so far.
Great to hear that. :)
The Marineengine.com website sys they only ship to the USA. Danger is in Australia, I'm in NZ. How to you get your parts shipped from them?
Thankyou, appreciate your time and effort to share information.
You're welcome James.
Great video once again .....as always I can't wait for the next video....
Thanks mate!
Great video thanks for sharing!
Excellent as always. Many thanks!
Thanks mate. :)
Nice one Stu - cheers.
Hope the back gets better soon mate.
Thanks Paul, it's been bad for a week now, apparently caused by the flu some how...
Excellent video as usual
Thanks Seth!
Great video 👍
An outstanding summary.
Thanks Jim!
great video thanks for sharing !!
Great vid keep them up!
Thanks mate. :)
Nice work mate.
Thanks Fabian. :)
Hey you mentioned a bad back. I have had severe arthritis of the spine for many yrs. Do some research on Jennifer Daniels and natural 100% gum spirits turpentine. Start slow as this stuff is very powerful and can make you sick as it cleans up your body.
I now am able to work a job as a full time mechanic after yrs of being crippled to the point of barely able to walk for 2 yrs. This week I was hand torquing semi trucks at approx 500 ft lbs with no issues now, down on my knees for much of my work. I still can't believe the change.
All the best and keep these videos coming.
Just working on a rebuild of a yamaha 115 v4 with a bad crankshaft bearing on the weekends. Thing only has 85 hrs on it. Engine looks like brand new...kinda strange why the bearing self destructed but no signs of heat or any other damage.
(Oh and I was so bad with arthritis I was a guinea pig for experimental chemo drugs the pain was so severe previously. Over 25 yrs of doctors and nothing worked.)
Thanks for the turpentine tip, I'll look into it. Strange about the Yamaha bearings, I wonder what happened?
Appreciate the dissecting of the coil Mate. Quite interesting to see the components in there, the way they actually live. I learned helpful things here !!. See ya on the next video, Hope your back feels better my Friend. God speed !!. PS; I'm gonna grab one of your shirts....
You're welcome. :) Was it you that suggested cutting the spark plug? Looking forward to getting your photo for the wall!
Ok; Will do Stu !!.
Sorry Stu; yes it was me that mentioned cutting open a spark plug. Thought it wouldn't hurt to mention that. Thanks for the recognition my friend.
Stu; in Hine sight cutting a spark plug in half diagonally would be a great undertaking. Maybe a ban saw, special metal blade. A vice. I was just curious how it connects one end to the other. I googled "inside view of a spark plug" and Wikipedia has a drawing of a cutaway plug.
Sorry, I would have given you a better shout out about the plug cutting if I didn't have such a terrible memory!
that was very informative
Thanks Michael!
Excellent job. Hope the back improves!
Thanks William!
Hi there, I hope you don't mind, but on the cutaway of the coil you got the primary and secondary reversed. The outermost winding which looks like bigger wires is actually made up of many many very small diameter wires wound between several thin sections...they all add up to around 2000 turns and then the innermost coil only has about 25 turns and those wires are much larger diameter than the outermost wires. The innermost coil is the primary which takes in a lower voltage and high current. The outermost is the secondary which outputs high voltage and low current. Love your content! I have an old Evinrude 1980's and the close up detail has been such a helpful reference to what should be there on an old motor.
Love your videos, just got a heads up when you mensioned that the HT leads need to have right resistance, i recently change the leads on my Mariner 80 from 1982 to leads which have no resistance at all, and i have gotten very strong interference, i can't even measure the charge voltage from the rectifier without the multimeter running crazy.
What leads should i have on my motor?
Is this the cause of the strange charge?
Looks like you have a pretty good grasp of basic electronic principles. I wonder where you received your training. Outstanding explanation as usual! Keep 'em coming.
Thanks Greg, electronics has been a bit of a hobby of mine since I was a kid. I think I learn most of it from those Radio Shack electronic kits. Lots of fun and educational. :) They teach basic 12V electrics as a part of a mechanical apprenticeship, but I personally think you can learn more from experimenting yourself.
Right on I still play and tinker with my old kit if I want to try a idea.
I'm going to tip off my age here. We had a company in the States called Heathkit and I built many of their kits including a 19" color television. I went on to become a systems analyst on a Titan II missile crew in the USAF and eventually received a degree in electronics technology. My career was spent working in the industry to include eighteen years of teaching systems maintenance. I hope people get involved in learning electronics and it is folks like you, with your explanation of how things work, that help to develop that interest. Thanks for taking the time to do what you are doing.
great video.looking for info on my 1990 3cly 60 hp mercury does the top coil go to the top plug and so forth. really tried every where cant find the answer. cheers
Correction on your schematic: The top end of the secondary winding goes to ground. If you tied it to +12V it would blow everything electronic in the car IMHO Since the secondary voltage is induced this still creates a voltage even though the plug goes to ground too.
Very interesting video. It helps a lot in understanding. Is it possible to test alternator coil this way too? I have a Mercury Mariner 30hp 2stroke which I found out no current coming out from it. Appreciate a lot if there is another video explaining about alternator coil.
Have a 1988 evinrude 30hp with no spark or intermittent spark on a coil. Someone had put an aftermarket coil on it at some point which is the one with no or intermittent spark.I did the checks and the suspect coil ohms out ok..I put a good known coil from a good running motor on and it sparked fine.I even switched plug wires and it had same result.Have you ever tested a coil that ohmed good but would spark intermittently or not at all?
hello Dangarstu,
Another great video Stu.
I had a miss on an old 73 V4 outboard a few years ago and decided to wiggle the Ht lead with the engine running, I will never touch another Ht lead on a running engine again.
I hope your back improves :-(
Will you be fitting the hydrofoil on the Green machine while you have her out?
Thanks Anthony. Yes, getting bitten by an HT isn't something you forget in a hurry! Yep, will definitely be putting the hydrofoil on next time I have it out of the water.
Hi I love your videos. I have a 1998 9.8 merc 2 stroke. The one plug wire can move in & out @ the coil. Is that ok? Or what can I do? That’s Dennis in Newmarket Ontario just above Toronto Canada
Hello, greetings from La Paz Baja Sur Mexico, what happens if the measurement in the secondary coil greatly exceeds the resistance?
Hi Stu, speaking on electrics I have been messing around on my Stihl weedeater trying to get it running and got it running good today but the I/O wasn't working so had to choke it to stop. Pulled it apart cleaned the contacts and checked the resistance. All was good so tried it again and now it magically works? Oh and found out it doesn't run good with the filter and carb box off. These machines are simple but touchy.
Hey Tim, it's amazing how often a bit of disassembly and then cleaning is all it takes to get something working again. Small motors are very touchy. One of the only motors I've never been able to get running was small chainsaw. Had spark, had compression, had fuel but wouldn't even begin to fire. Must have been timing or something but it was quite new. It's still sitting on the shelf to this day!
Funny, you know I think the reason it was running then quit was the I/O switch wasn't working. No matter what I did wouldn't have helped till I fixed the switch. Troubleshooting 101 compression, spark, fuel, ignition and allot of patience. Oh my video may be able to help you with that one on the shelf someday if I ever get done with it. haha
I bought a CDI brand coil and it lasted only 4.3 hrs . But I had a bad plug wire that could have contributed?
When I clamp a small tachometer on each lead of the coil when it’s running there is a difference in rpm’s by a lot should there be
I bought a 30 horse Johnson 1988 somebody had taking the electric fuel primer off of it I'm currently going to put one back on I found where one small hose goes between the butterflies and the intake manifold but I don't know where the other one goes can you please help
Hey man ive a parsun 90hp t fel can i put yammy coils on it they look the very same just parsun looks cheaper quality whats your toughts
Very well explained and easy to follow, well done! Is there any chance you could eventually make a video on replacing brake pads on rusted mechanical trailer brake calipers. Not sure if u must remove that heavy salted oxidation that stops the pads moving back and forth or even how to do so. Thanks for the excellent videos!
The brakes components do need to be clean so that they will apply even pressure to both sides and then retract properly when braking is finished.
Dangar Marine alright thanks
Hey, is there any difference between CDI coils and breaker point coils in general? I have an old Yam, and think the coils are on the way out but they arent available any more, so thinking of putting on a new CDI coil. The engine has a starter and charger, so I could even run s couple of old car coils straight off the breakers. Have you ever done this?
I have a question sir, I have a 1997 175 V6 Johnson outboard I have bought 2 coils that keeps on going out when installed now I just bought my third but this time I bought it original should I check my power pack before installing the original coil??
Danger Stu was that you down at parsley Bay boat ramp today between 12 and 1pm pulling a boat out the water which had so much fouling below the water line it look like a turf farm
Hi David, probably! We pull all our boats out there and almost all of them need a good pressure wash before they go back in the water. ;)
hi grate video ! i have a 1995 evinrude 50hpwith a jet foot on a 14ft aluminum starts grate and runs grate at full throttel for a while thin start running at a lower rpm like its hot or somthing . some say its a bad coil thats getting hot . what do you think ?? help !
Coils can definitely develop faults when they get warm and the metal expands.
hello, have you got information about how to testing a rotax 582 ignition coil i have 4 wires , red, white, and green wire and the fourth that is the stop wire.. do you know y is it possible to replace the transistor inside it coil? in case of it would be damaged ? thank you and sorry because of my pour english . im writting from aregentina..
Thanks for the video. But I’m still befuddled. Could there be a kill switch I’m not finding. I’m working on a boat that hasn’t ran for over four years. It belongs to a friend. His dad left it to him and it sat behind a garage four years.
Is all cdi coils the same?
I've johnson 1981 2 cyl cdi ignition system without coils
Also I've evinrude 1975 points ignition system
The question here can i use evinrude 1975 points spark plugs on johnson 1981 cdi system??
I have a question. Can I replace the outboard ignition coil with bikes ignition coil? My outboard is old, they are hard to find and extremely expensive. I was wondering( knowing nothing about electronics) if that can be doable. Thanks.
I truly enjoy all of your videos and I too am a mechanic of autos but you've saved me thousands on my 3 boats. 1 is a 1983 suzuki dt15 and a force 140 and my bass boat is a 2010 mercury 250 pro xs. My suzuki is having a very slight stumble at wot. And seems to not reach wot. I'm thinking trash in jets . Any thoughts . And thank you in advance and I'm across the pond
I would certainly always start with a carb clean in those circumstances.
Watch your clips all the time. love em. Was wondering about something? 2002 yamaha 115. Am i able to to replace the spark plug wire on all of my four coils without buying new coils? It appears that the wire is molded into the coil, but not sure. I wanted to buy several feet of new plug wire and replace. my coils and boots are fine. Any thoughts?
Yes, on some units they are moulded in an can't be replaced separately unfortunately. Most of the time the problem with the lead is the plug on the end though that you can replace.
@@DangarMarine I really appreciate your quick response. You are on top of things.Thanks so much
Dangar can you do a full video on multimeter meters and and a sort of testing dignosess
Sure, that's a good idea. I'm doing the electrics on my trawler soon so that might be a good opportunity.
@@DangarMarine awesome I'm going to school to a marine technition and your videos help me get a head start and the way you do it is awesome so thanks
Can u show me how to remove the coil on a Sears game fisher outboard I have-no spark one 1 cylinder
Sorry, have never seen one.
Wish I could get my boat to you for service...just can't carry enough fuel to get there.
Ha! Outboards aren't great at long distance trips! ;)
An ignition related question, if I may. I have a ‘96 Johnson V6 150 h.p., (60 degree) engine. The engine wouldn’t start/run when I bought the boat. I replaced several ignition components and rebuilt all 6 carbs....and it now runs. During the diagnosis process, I discovered two of the flywheel magnets are chipped on one edge. In fact, it was likely the fragments that damaged the optic sensor. I had intended to replace the chipped magnets until I read my shop manual. The shop manual states, if magnets are loose, they should be repaired. It further states, broken or damaged magnets necessitates a new flywheel. That seems to imply attempts at replacing damaged magnets shouldn’t be performed......Repaired but not replaced?? Seems to be conflicting. Are there circumstances which replacement should NOT be performed? It may be simpler and cheaper to buy a used flywheel, but frequently difficult to determine actual condition of (online) used parts. I’m not certain how the magnets became chipped, but have obvious concern for future deterioration and subsequently resulting problems. Your advice would be greatly appreciated. It goes without saying, subscribers to your website are indebted to your help. That said, how may WE offer contributions (from the U.S.)? Thanks again. Be well.
Great vid mate, but (not wishing to be pedantic) capacitors store charge, not current.
Hello Dangarstu, if the resitance of the sparkplug cap is to low could it break the parkplug? a friend of mine had a 4 hp 4 stroke yamaha and the sparkplug went dead after an hour of running the engine ,
It will reduce it's life, but would be surprised it died with just one hour of use. Could have simply been a bad plug.
@Dangar what is the best way to get a donation to you? T-shirt, patreon, PayPal?
Hi Mark. Best option really is PayPal. T-shirts, despite seeming expensive actually have almost no profit margin. I appreciate your support either way though! :)
@@DangarMarine sweet, can you post the address please?
Stu, one thing I see you do all the time is have your fingers on the multimeter probe ends when doing measurements. On resistances under about 10Kohm it wont matter much, but 100k and up you will get weird readings ( and Sydney humid summers when your hands are sweaty, 10k readings can get weird I have found) due to your body resistance being in parallel with the load . It is also bad form for the time you decide to read a high current , high voltage and don't watch where you fingers are near the probe ends- it can be fatal. Take care and hope the back comes good quickly- but what's the story on how you hurt it ? Not bike related I hope.
Hey Ron, yeah, I do have some alligator clips for that multimeter that I should use more often as it is very hard to hold a probe against a floppy wire without pinching them together. Interesting that you say it matters more with high resistance, intuitively it seems that it would make a bigger difference with lower readings but I guess more current will pass through you hands the harder it is to pass through the component you are testing.
Basic parallel resistance theory. A 10Kohm and a 100Kohm resistor in parallel will measure 11Kohm, 100Kohm and 100Kohm in parallel will measure 50Kohm. So if your body resistance is 100Kohm ( pretty typical) then the higher the resistance of the circuit you want to measure, the more error will creep in if your body is parallel with the circuit. Just try holding a series of resistors on the probes of your multimeter to see what I mean. I have pretty low skin resistance (I can get a shock from 12volts!) so I have to be careful all the time.
Hey stu, I enjoy learning from your videos. Just wondering if you have video on wiring key switch to outboard harness?
Thanks Bryan, at the moment no, but it is on the list. Generally it is just a matter of joining like coloured wires.
where can I get reliable service manuals?
Try readmanual.com and tradebit.com
Hey Stu, long time fan. Just a quick one for ya
Have a 2001 Yamaha 40hp electric start. Was out on the water, everything working fine. Started her back up to go to the next fishing spot and revs dropped and it just stalled. Stalled almost everytime within a couple of seconds of start up when trying to get it going again. Seemed like a fuel issue but starting and priming the bulb wasnt keeping it alive. I thought it could have been a fuel issue due to the primer bulb not really hardening and then going soft after it stalled again however when i disconnect my (newly installed) water seperator it seemed to firm up better but still die. Thoughts?
It does sound like a fuel issue. Does it get better if you turn the choke on? If so I would be looking at the carburettors and whether the primer bulb is functioning properly (ie, is there fuel in the carburettor bowls)
will sus it out, thanks mate. keep up the good work
I have some sort of spark problem, I hear a clicking sound like a spark when the engine first starts up. I tested the coil secondary's and 2 of them came in alright and I couldn't get a reading on the other one, the ohmmeter said open circuit. Would that be caused by a bad coil or is it some other problem? There did look to be something black coating the connection, I was gonna clean it with some carb cleaner tomorrow and try testing again.
I'd definitely clean it up first. It could be a break in the internal windings of the coil or just a bad connection. If you can hear a sparking noise, try having someone start the boat at night while you look for any flashes of light from the motor showing you where the spark is coming from (if it is one)
Thanks for the reply. I've cleaned up the connection to the spark plug and to ground, but I'm still getting an open circuit on the ohmmeter. However it is producing a spark and the noise has gone away, and the engine is running fine now. So I'm probably just going to wait a month till the season is over in my area and replace the suspect coil as part of my winter tune up.
I thought you had to say "earth" if you use the metric system? ;)
hey Stu, I have an Evinrude 6hp and it has been backfiring at idle randomly but has a good idle otherwise and I have checked ignition timing but still backfires, is there a chance the ignition coil could be causing this. thank you :)
Possibly, could also be running lean from a blocked carburettor jet or a vacuum leak.
@@DangarMarine thanks :)
I just wish Marine Engine shipped internationally :'(
They ship to the US, Canada and Australia.
If you live somewhere else you might be able to use a mail forwarding service.
My 2006 Honda BF90A6 outboard motor has a problem with weak sparks so I replaced the spark plugs, coils and high-tension wires - with no improvement. Now I discovered that the pickup magnet (for the spark signal) has almost no magnetism, virtually undetectable attraction to metal things such as the shaft of a small screwdriver. I think this is the source of my spark problem. Seems odd though, I've never heard of such a problem with weak pickup-coil magnets before (although I've read of problems with magneto ignitions due to weak magnets)..
That pulser coil may have failed, but I can't say I've ever directly tested the magnetism of it, normally I just test the resistance to see if there is a break in the coil around the magnet. You can also test the current coming out of the coil using a DVA meter.
I have a question i have a 96 or 97 200 efi mercury and its not charging can u tell me where to start diagnosing the problem also tach dont work but motor runs fine
hi Chris the EFI issue with merc i had was a fuse inline in one of the engines and on the other one it had a bad voltage regulator on the electrical panel i just unhook the wires that went to the voltage module and unbolt the two screws and replace , make shure all connections were good before replace any modules ,as well disconnect battery first so you dont do further damage to other components , ps also do a battery charge test some batterys wont except a charge if damaged , maybe another member can chime in on this incase i forgot to mention any other possible cause , cheers gl
Yeah Randy is spot on. I went through 2 voltage regulators on my 2 stk. When the Rach doesn't work it's almost always the v regulator. Look for burnt wires especially at connection(bullet connectors) . It's generally the yellow wires that fry the most
The tach not working, no charging are symptoms of the same fault. Your power generation coils are burnt out, disconnected (broken wires or stator coil to wire joins broken) , or your voltage regulator has failed.Outboard tachos on that non EFI or early EFI (yours) era engines use the AC voltage pulses as the signal. As the number of pulses goes up as the engine increases revs (typically 3 pairs of power coils on engines over about 50hp, so 12 pulses per revolution) , it was an easy and cheap way to get rpm info. Some tachos run off a lead from the rectifier, before the regulator (where they are separate items) , and others off a wire fed from the regulator/rectifier (combined unit) - but the actual pulse data is the same . On modern (2000 on) EFI engines the tacho is normally driven from a signal from the engine computer and may be simple voltage, a 5 or 12v pulse stream or even a servo signal. How the tach is driven is very individual to the engine. Randy has the first item to check though, there is always a fuse in the 12v output to the battery/remote control- and they do break from vibration. If that fuse is OK, time to get out the manual, do a basic regulator check (AC volts on the yellow wires at about 30volts or so, about 14volts on the red out put wire from the reg) and make up a DVA , then follow Stu's video on checking coils with the DVA/multimeter. But I would be suspecting the power coils or regulator have died.
kindly focus on simple troubleshooting this is for the examination class
Gauges Stu! When can you do a vid on gauges? Tachos, trim indicators. None of mine work.
Adam D
There are a few gauges I would like to add to the Green Machine so I will definitely be filming that when I do it.
Interested in getting some motors looked at Do you have a shop ?Been trying to search business name on google with no luck
Hi Ryan, the shop only does cars commercially.
Ok so no boat motors you just do this for friends ?
Some of it went by a bit fast....., but I can always repeat. Diagrams were generally clear, but you didn't explain SCR triggering.....
Hey Emil, yes, it is a lot of ground to cover in one 15 minute video, I probably should have divided it into two videos. The SCR is triggered by a coil under the flywheel that tells the CDI unit what position the crankshaft is in. The CDI uses that information to decided exactly when to fire each spark plug for a given RPM thereby doing the job of a manual spark advance linkage. The first part of this video talks about that in more detail: czcams.com/video/5wbmaQXGf54/video.html
Did anybody tell you that resistance will lie to you
Voltage testing will never lie
Yes, I have heard it said that a voltage drop test is more reliable.
I really want to talk talk to you
I'm afraid your circuit as drawn at the start of your video is severely flawed for the electronic switching. Whether through the diode/switch combination, or the SCR, either way, you'd be shorting your battery out and I imagine that the negative of your battery is likely referenced to ground (chassis) as well (unless your system uses positive grounding, but either way, you're still shorting your battery in this design). Also, capacitors do not "store current", they store electric charge which is not the same thing and is the product of voltage and capacitance (Q = CV where Q is the charge in Coulombs, C is capacitance in Farads and V is voltage). When the capacitor charges up, we can measure that in practice as a static voltage, not a current which is measured in amps. There is no electron flow in a fully charged capacitor but there is voltage. Amps flow in the capacitor only during charging and when discharging. The rate of decay of the capacitor is determined by the capacitance and any series coil inductance and circuit resistance. The stored energy in Joules for the capacitor is given by the formula: Ec = CV^2. Unfortunately, without a proper schematic, I can't really comment further on the circuit operation.
Great video👍
Thanks Brian!