Very cool! I think the corrosion on the second percussion example was a result of poor firearm cleaning when it was a flintlock. After firing the burnt powder residue stuck to the outside of the barrel adjacent the pan, and the hydroscopic residue absorbs water from the air. If not cleaned or allowed to sit for some time the resulting moisture would cause the corrosion.
WOW! 1875..... Dang that is old, old school technology at that date. Just think, the 1873 Winchester, 1873 Colt and 1873 Springfield were being produced by then.
Yes, by 1875, cartridge firearms were available. The "old school" flintlock technology still had some value. If you were in remote areas and ran out of percussion caps or cartridges, you were out of luck until you could resupply at some point of civilization. If you had powder and lead, a flintlock could be kept in operation. Some even knapped their own flints. I thought it interesting that muzzle loading firearms were still available for purchase in Canada into the 20th Century.
Why, when talking about the flintlock ignition, people always say that the frizzen sparks ignited the powder in the pan, "if they were lucky" it ignited the main powder charge? The flintlock ignition was quite reliable.
There is no ‘if you are lucky’ related to these guns. They fire fine and very reliable and with a little skill and care you can fire them well in rain. There is a lag time between trigger pull and shot, but very short and after practice unnoticeable
I have no direct experience with flintlock firearms, so you are no doubt correct. And certainly the original users had the "skill and care" to keep these guns in operation. My "lucky" comment was based on anecdotes from both original users and people shooting modern reproductions.
@@wsmvolunteers8588 some of the repro companies make very poor locks, and that is a cause of frustration. And there is a learning curve. I don’t own a north west gun now, but shoot it’s French forefathers the fusil de chase, it is my favorite gun. I encourage you to get to a mountain man rendezvous and see such guns in action. Dedicated flintlock shooters don’t want any thing else
Well done presentation. I would comment on the corrosion. Our family owns an antique rifle (1850s)that has always been percussion and it exhibits a great deal of corrosion at the breach. I'm perplexed by this because the bore is still good and it is a very accurate rifle.
Percussion caps were perhaps not as bad as flintlocks, but still allowed corrosive material to be deposited on the outside of the breach. Someone in your family took very good care of the bore. Often old rifles were neglected by following generations who didn't depend on the gun for daily use. So credit to your ancestors.
Years back I attended a demonstration of late 18th century-mid 19th century flintlock/cap and ball rifles-guns/revolvers. One of the presenters noted that ‘black powder’ weapons have to be cleaned regularly, corrosion is one principle reason, thats the beast of working with black powder.
@@harrylime8077 The residue remaining in the barrel after firing black powder is hygroscopic meaning it attracts moisture and causes corrosion. So firearms must be cleaned after every use for best results.
@@wsmvolunteers8588 Interestingly you just described my 1870s 36 cal heavy barreled target percussion muzzle loader...well worn exterior and amazing rifling to this day.
20 gauge (.62 caliber) Northwest Flintlock Trade Gun at You Tube Northwest Flintlock Trade Gun Klamath Falls Herald and News: Letters To The Editor: Thursday, April 29, 2010 A piece of history wasn’t part of the photo display The Monday Herald and News posted online the coverage of the “Mount Mazama Mountain Men re-enactment from the 1840s.” Unfortunately, I missed attending it. Be that as it may, the posted online photos didn’t depict the most commonly used firearm during this era: The Northwest Flintlock Trade Gun. Known also as Mackinaw Gun, Hudson’s Bay Fuke, fusee, Northwest Gun, London Musket, or simply Indian Musket, this flintlock smooth-bore weapon was in common use in North America for 150 years. For too long the historic Northwest Flintlock Trade Gun has been ignored for the role it played in the development of early America and Canada. In fact, contrary to popular myth, this primitive smoothbore flintlock fusil was the most commonly owned, used and carried firearms of not only native Americans, but fur trappers, French Canadian settlers, and mountain men. Appearing about 1750, these smoothbore trade guns were commonly .58 Caliber (24 gauge) and .62 caliber (20 gauge). They were versatile as a foraging survival gun while loading both solid round ball for deer, elk, and bear, or smaller lead shot for small game, including birds and waterfowl. Even today, a skilled woodsman could still survive and forage off the land while utilizing a Northwest Flintlock Trade Gun in replica form. North Star West at www.northstarwest.com is a firm specializing in historical reproductions of early black powder muzzle loaders. In fact, I recall a former exhibit at the Klamath County Museum depicting the early fur trade era of our region. Pieces of an original Northwest Flintlock Trade Gun were displayed inside the glass. This fusil was discovered along the Sprague River in 1949. The original serpentine side plate, flintlock cock, frizzen, iron barrel, buttplate, nails, screws, etc. remained as a history lesson for future generations of our bygone frontier past. James A. Farmer, Ashland Effective October 2016 once again a resident of Klamath County, Oregon. First in Merrill followed by Klamath Falls. Posted courtesy of Jim Farmer.
Being an avid black powder aficionado and living history buff, I enjoyed your informative video. Being a 48 plus year BP shooter/reenactor, and history buff I enjoy learning adout the details of all the frontiersmen equipment and use. I knew that the bowed trigger guard was for gloved hands, never heard the later fact was for the indians two trigger technique. Thanks for the history lesson partner.
Great video and I have a question. When these trade guns were originally produced, were the trigger guards and barrels left with a plain steel finish or were they treated in some way, i.e. blued or browned? I'm currently building a trade gun and aiming to produce the original finish? Thanks again for a very informative video.
According to a book I have on Northwest guns, the barrels were blued and the stocks were usually coated in a cheap reddish varnish. A few had painted stocks, even blue colored (some painted Northwest guns were recovered from the wreck of the steamboat "Arabia", for example).
@@TubeRadiosRule Thank you very much for the information. This gives me a very good idea on how I want to finish my build and it's fascinating to find out about the painted stocks too! Best wishes, Peter
I get what your saying. The lever action clearly didn't win the west. Meaning there was a war going on in the west. The US Army fought the Indians and won. The Army encountered the enemy often times armed with that exact gun. It was inferior to the Springfield trad door 45-70. That was the gun that won the west. Oh sure there were skirmishes with the early Trappers and a little later with settlers miners etc with the Indians. But it was the US Army thT won the west and they carried the Springfield trap door 45-70. I spent 1w yrs in the Army Reserve and know and participated every year at the Armys birthday when all the hype is presented and ribbons attached to the Army colors and most of the campaigns were fought against the Indians out west. I will argue that to no end. Because all battles in the Army are clearly documented
"Winning the West" means we finished taking the land away from the people who lived here before we arrived. The Trapdoor was Army issue from 1866 (the first Allin conversions of Civil War muzzle loading muskets) through 1892 when they were replaced by the Krag-Jorgensen, so about 25 years in service in the West. They were the issue firearm at the end of the Indian Wars, so your point is valid.
What a well-reserved example of a classic firearm.
Locks were parts that were replaced sometimes so that gun could have been older.
Good point. I find it fascinating that they were even making locks for flints at that time.
Thank you for uploading this video.
Very cool! I think the corrosion on the second percussion example was a result of poor firearm cleaning when it was a flintlock. After firing the burnt powder residue stuck to the outside of the barrel adjacent the pan, and the hydroscopic residue absorbs water from the air. If not cleaned or allowed to sit for some time the resulting moisture would cause the corrosion.
I believe you are correct. Due to its hydrostatic properties, black powder was very corrosive if firearms were not cleaned after firing.
I believe the term is 'hygroscopic'.....not 'hydroscopic'🤷♂️
@@craigoldsen1667 Absolutely correct. I've been using the wrong term all along. Thanks!
correct, certainly not from the sparks
....
Another great video. Thanks Evan.
WOW! 1875..... Dang that is old, old school technology at that date. Just think, the 1873 Winchester, 1873 Colt and 1873 Springfield were being produced by then.
Yes, by 1875, cartridge firearms were available. The "old school" flintlock technology still had some value. If you were in remote areas and ran out of percussion caps or cartridges, you were out of luck until you could resupply at some point of civilization. If you had powder and lead, a flintlock could be kept in operation. Some even knapped their own flints. I thought it interesting that muzzle loading firearms were still available for purchase in Canada into the 20th Century.
Thank you. Muchly enjoyed.
Very informative a great video...thanks !
Why, when talking about the flintlock ignition, people always say that the frizzen sparks ignited the powder in the pan, "if they were lucky" it ignited the main powder charge? The flintlock ignition was quite reliable.
Love the trade guns , great video.
There is no ‘if you are lucky’ related to these guns. They fire fine and very reliable and with a little skill and care you can fire them well in rain. There is a lag time between trigger pull and shot, but very short and after practice unnoticeable
I have no direct experience with flintlock firearms, so you are no doubt correct. And certainly the original users had the "skill and care" to keep these guns in operation. My "lucky" comment was based on anecdotes from both original users and people shooting modern reproductions.
@@wsmvolunteers8588 some of the repro companies make very poor locks, and that is a cause of frustration. And there is a learning curve.
I don’t own a north west gun now, but shoot it’s French forefathers the fusil de chase, it is my favorite gun.
I encourage you to get to a mountain man rendezvous and see such guns in action.
Dedicated flintlock shooters don’t want any thing else
Really enjoy these presentations, Evan. Well done (again) and thumbs up.
Thanks again, Noah.
Great presentation. Thank you. Greetings from Germany.
Great video. Keep up the good work.
Well done presentation. I would comment on the corrosion. Our family owns an antique rifle (1850s)that has always been percussion and it exhibits a great deal of corrosion at the breach. I'm perplexed by this because the bore is still good and it is a very accurate rifle.
Percussion caps were perhaps not as bad as flintlocks, but still allowed corrosive material to be deposited on the outside of the breach. Someone in your family took very good care of the bore. Often old rifles were neglected by following generations who didn't depend on the gun for daily use. So credit to your ancestors.
Years back I attended a demonstration of late 18th century-mid 19th century flintlock/cap and ball rifles-guns/revolvers. One of the presenters noted that ‘black powder’ weapons have to be cleaned regularly, corrosion is one principle reason, thats the beast of working with black powder.
@@harrylime8077 The residue remaining in the barrel after firing black powder is hygroscopic meaning it attracts moisture and causes corrosion. So firearms must be cleaned after every use for best results.
@@wsmvolunteers8588 Interestingly you just described my 1870s 36 cal heavy barreled target percussion muzzle loader...well worn exterior and amazing rifling to this day.
20 gauge (.62 caliber) Northwest Flintlock Trade Gun at You Tube
Northwest Flintlock Trade Gun
Klamath Falls Herald and News: Letters To The Editor: Thursday, April 29, 2010
A piece of history wasn’t part of the photo display
The Monday Herald and News posted online the coverage of the
“Mount Mazama Mountain Men re-enactment from the 1840s.”
Unfortunately, I missed attending it. Be that as it may, the posted
online photos didn’t depict the most commonly used firearm during this
era: The Northwest Flintlock Trade Gun. Known also as Mackinaw
Gun, Hudson’s Bay Fuke, fusee, Northwest Gun, London Musket, or
simply Indian Musket, this flintlock smooth-bore weapon was in common
use in North America for 150 years.
For too long the historic Northwest Flintlock Trade Gun has been
ignored for the role it played in the development of early America and
Canada. In fact, contrary to popular myth, this primitive
smoothbore flintlock fusil was the most commonly owned, used and
carried firearms of not only native Americans, but fur trappers,
French Canadian settlers, and mountain men. Appearing about 1750,
these smoothbore trade guns were commonly .58 Caliber (24 gauge) and
.62 caliber (20 gauge). They were versatile as a foraging survival
gun while loading both solid round ball for deer, elk, and bear, or
smaller lead shot for small game, including birds and waterfowl.
Even today, a skilled woodsman could still survive and forage off the
land while utilizing a Northwest Flintlock Trade Gun in replica form.
North Star West at www.northstarwest.com is a firm specializing in
historical reproductions of early black powder muzzle loaders.
In fact, I recall a former exhibit at the Klamath County Museum
depicting the early fur trade era of our region. Pieces of an
original Northwest Flintlock Trade Gun were displayed inside the
glass. This fusil was discovered along the Sprague River in 1949.
The original serpentine side plate, flintlock cock, frizzen, iron
barrel, buttplate, nails, screws, etc. remained as a history lesson
for future generations of our bygone frontier past.
James A. Farmer, Ashland
Effective October 2016 once again a resident of Klamath County, Oregon.
First in Merrill followed by Klamath Falls. Posted courtesy of Jim Farmer.
Being an avid black powder aficionado and living history buff, I enjoyed your informative video.
Being a 48 plus year BP shooter/reenactor, and history buff I enjoy learning adout the details of all the frontiersmen equipment and use.
I knew that the bowed trigger guard was for gloved hands, never heard the later fact was for the indians two trigger technique.
Thanks for the history lesson partner.
Two fingers is not in my opinion, a fact. Rather an opinion.
That long trigger sure looks like two fingers would fit on it.
Great video and I have a question. When these trade guns were originally produced, were the trigger guards and barrels left with a plain steel finish or were they treated in some way, i.e. blued or browned? I'm currently building a trade gun and aiming to produce the original finish? Thanks again for a very informative video.
According to a book I have on Northwest guns, the barrels were blued and the stocks were usually coated in a cheap reddish varnish. A few had painted stocks, even blue colored (some painted Northwest guns were recovered from the wreck of the steamboat "Arabia", for example).
@@TubeRadiosRule Thank you very much for the information. This gives me a very good idea on how I want to finish my build and it's fascinating to find out about the painted stocks too! Best wishes, Peter
@GRRW CA Many thanks for this. The book seems to be out of print according to Amazon, but I'll keep an eye open for it on Abe Books. Thanks again
HOPEFULLY, THE WEST IS NOT WON! THAT WYOMING IS & ALWAYS WILL BE IN THE NEW FRONTIER! ALWAYS KEEPING THAT WESTERN HERITAGE LIFESTYLE!
I get what your saying. The lever action clearly didn't win the west. Meaning there was a war going on in the west. The US Army fought the Indians and won. The Army encountered the enemy often times armed with that exact gun. It was inferior to the Springfield trad door 45-70. That was the gun that won the west. Oh sure there were skirmishes with the early Trappers and a little later with settlers miners etc with the Indians. But it was the US Army thT won the west and they carried the Springfield trap door 45-70. I spent 1w yrs in the Army Reserve and know and participated every year at the Armys birthday when all the hype is presented and ribbons attached to the Army colors and most of the campaigns were fought against the Indians out west. I will argue that to no end. Because all battles in the Army are clearly documented
"Winning the West" means we finished taking the land away from the people who lived here before we arrived. The Trapdoor was Army issue from 1866 (the first Allin conversions of Civil War muzzle loading muskets) through 1892 when they were replaced by the Krag-Jorgensen, so about 25 years in service in the West. They were the issue firearm at the end of the Indian Wars, so your point is valid.