Kopi Luwak/Civet Poop Coffee: Disgusting or Delightful?
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- čas přidán 21. 04. 2022
- Kopi Luwak/Civet coffee is a pretty divisive topic, but I wanted to share my understanding of it all and to answer the question of whether or not you should try it.
Here are some links to a few of the articles mentioned in the video:
BBC Investigation: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...
Guinness World Record: www.guinnessworldrecords.com/...
Research Paper on Civet Coffee Chemical Markers: www.researchgate.net/publicat...
Research Paper on Civet Coffee Composition (pdf): www.kinfopolitani.com/index.p...
The Portland Human Processor: sprudge.com/shock-portland-ma...
Links:
Patreon: / jameshoffmann
Limited Edition Merch: www.tenshundredsthousands.com
My Books:
The World Atlas of Coffee: geni.us/atlasofcoffee
The World Atlas of Coffee Audiobook: bit.ly/worldatlasofcoffeeaudio
The Best of Jimseven: geni.us/bestofjimseven
Find me here:
Instagram: / jimseven
Twitter: / jimseven
Things I use and like:
My video kit: kit.co/jimseven/video-making-...
My current studio coffee kit: kit.co/jimseven/studio-coffee...
My glasses: bit.ly/boldlondon
My hair product of choice: geni.us/forthehair - Zábava
James discusses the industry issues, animal cruelty involved, fraud possibilities, declines to drink it AND does not recommends blockchain in the same video? I love this man more and more with every video
Totally agree. The blockchain touch was especially enlightening!
Same
On point as usual.
He understands blockchain better than 80% of it's proclaimers.
Halfway through the video I was thinking to myself: "Damn, this is coffee is just as unnecessary, overhyped and wasteful as Blockchain..."
And then James made the connection himself later on. Brilliant!
I'm from Bali, Indonesia. I live where there is a lot of Luwak Coffee "factory".
Luwak mainly eat small animals and insects. Originally luwak eat coffee cherries as side dish. So they picked perfectly ripe coffee cherries.
In the "factory", luwak bred like pigs. Their main diet are, yes, only coffee cherries. Mostly they ended up getting malnutrition and die at young age.
Oh my goodness, I had a feeling it would affect them in regards to the limited diets and everything but you’re explanation and observations really put things into perspective. People tend to forget like most creatures, luwak have diverse diets and they need that diversity in their diets because of all the nutrients they need.
Thank you for confirming the cruelty involved in kopi luwak.
That's aweful. Thanks for comnfirming it from first hand experiance
Thanks for sharing. That's awful
When I went to Bali for a holiday, I didn't know this and when I saw this on a tour, I was admittedly a bit intrigued and decided to buy a small packet (100g or so) of it, which wasn't too expensive either and seemed interesting enough at that time. What I didn't know back then, was the cruel industry, the low quality and also the fact that apparently it can be labeled "Kopi Luwak" if the entire thing contains just a tiny, tiny amount of it and the rest is actually "normal" coffee. I later checked in the ingredients (should've done that before but oh well, it was a holiday after all..) and indeed it said like 5% or something, I think. So in reality you're buying 5g of the "expensive" coffee and 95g of some random, probably very cheap stuff - you probably won't even be able to taste the Luwak Coffee because of the tiny amount that it actually is.
I'm glad I found this video though, education is always a long process and you never really stop learning. I've learned my lesson and will stay away from this type of coffee in the future. Next time I'd rather spend my money on some really good local food because Bali certainly has some absolutely delicious food places!
I made someone a kopi coffee once. He raved about it. I then told him it was actually 6 month out of date cheap super market coffee. He never forgave me for showing him up lol
A friend of mine did something similar with their wine snob step-dad. It's been more than a few years since and he still refuses to acknowledge it even happened.
@@PhoenicopterusR There's a study where professional wine tasters we're served cheap wine in expensive labeled bottles, and the judges didn't know the difference
Lmao.
When I read that you "made a kopi" I initially thought you yourself ate the green coffee and accomplished all the subsequent steps... This was a very strange thought of mine!
pranking hipsters the right way
Hey James, I am from Indonesia and thank you for spreading the awareness! Supporting local coffee farmers are waaay more beneficiary for them instead of supporting this cruel 'industry'...
I’m currently in Indonesia and I visited one of sites that sells this. I was quite excited to drink this but I saw the caged luwaks and I was not too thrilled afterwards. Thanks for this video this reassures me that I did the right thing.
I don't think you missed anything. I tried it in Bali and while I'm not a refined palette I didn't find it very note worthy. And while they said it was wild I wouldn't be shocked to find it was caged.
@@michaelevershed288 When I was younger and was in Bali I also traveled there, and we noticed on the way out a lot of the "wild civit cats" spots had rows of cages tucked around corners or in back areas.
I'm Indonesian, and let me add this to you all: wild civets are most commonly found in Sumatra where the nature still covers a lot of land with forests, or at least palm oil farms greeneries. Those found in Bali will almost certainly be caged luwaks since there is less forests about.
Whenever you are at a point, when you ask yourself: "does the animal like this? Is this the way animals should be treated?" You can be 100% sure that the animal does not like it and should not be treated like this. So all i can say in this case: well done!
Good job. I've been mildly curious about this coffee for a long time. I definitely shan't be drinking it after seeing this video and it's good that you didn't either.
Normally, one of my favorite traits of James in his videos is that he never uses absolutes, like "definitely do this" or "do not do this". He'd usually say something along the lines of, "this is a very low cost, low effort way to greatly improve your results (implying: do this)" or "if you have the money to shell out for this and you really want this feature or that difference, go ahead. Otherwise, I don't feel that it is worth the extra money or effort (implying don't do this)".
But in this video, I'm glad that James said straight-up do not buy civet coffee. Normally, if he thought a weird product or bean didn't taste any better than normal coffee, at most he'd say he wouldn't recommend it. But him requesting that we do not buy it shows how seriously he takes the abuse and fraud that goes on in that corner of the industry and that the various stances he takes on products are not just virtue signaling, he legitimately cares about the cause and about his viewers.
He takes great care not to be pretentious too and that’s part of his likeability
Exactly the same in his book (cannot recommend it enough) - the paragraph on Kopi Luwak stands out tonally, and is emphatic and entirely decisive. Love this about the gentleman.
there are civek substitutes though
Yes, normally the worst thing he says about a coffee is that it's not his cup of... tea. Or coffee, as it were.
yes too many youtubers and influencers always say „you have to do this“ or „never do this“ so this approach is very refreshing… plus when he says that way its way more impactful!
Thanks for bringing awareness to this. I almost bought this years ago out of sheer curiosity, but I decided at the time it wasn't worth the money and it just sounded disgusting. I had no idea about the animal cruelty behind this. Im glad you're shedding some light on this.
I really like you EVEN more after this video. This content was not what I expected going in, and I'm so glad to see you condemning such horrible practices. Also, OF COURSE someone from my home state wanted to make human coffee. Never change, Oregon.
ill buy you a bag.
What's so horrible about it? Where I am from, we do this all the time to animals who can offer something we want to have. We even breed animals to kill and eat them
@@producdevity Except generally you care for the health of your animals, since that's directly proportional to the taste, quality, and quantity of their meat. (Unless you're a factory farm, in which case screw you)
I'm Indonesian and I always say the same thing that James told you in this video about Kopi Luwak. Please don't drink it. Stop animal cruelty by reducing the demand.
You really did your homework James, great video
I only heard about this thing in passing and now will spread the word about the cruelty and fraud involved in this industry!
Should say that about chicken, beef, pork as well. Stop eating now.
@@pluto8404 Farm animals can absolutely be raised humanely and most people simply cannot cut out meat for a number of reasons. But there is no reason for this coffee to exist.
@@pluto8404 you can find a farms that produce their products in a more humane way everywhere. And while this coffee has no reason to exist aside from recreational purposes, meat is an important part of our diet. Yes, you can get the same nutrient in a plant diet but you need to eat more of that to get the same amount of nutrients present in meat.
@@pluto8404 while eating meat is bad for the environment, it is still a much different thing than coffee. Since so many people rely on it as a food source.
So instead of writing comments, you should enable people to have healthier meals without meat. It's hard yes, but if you actually cared about animals you'd do it instead of wasting your time trolling in CZcams comments
James' friends: 'Hey, James. Bet you can't use the word fecophile in a review.'
James: 'Hold my latte...'
I’m sure his friends enjoyed his podcast interview then
....surely that would be a Shartte....
I can't find the origin of the word but considering being Swedish I was happy to hear that our fika culture is getting some international attention. Surely that is where the word must originate from?
Strictly speaking it should be "coprophile". The word "faecal" is Latin and "-philia" is Greek. The Greek word for poop is "kópros" (latinised to copros) so poop lovers are coprophiles.
".....hold my bripe"
FIFY
It breaks my heart that someone could put these poor creatures through this kind of abuse, and I can only imagine how malnourished they must be, not to mention the trauma of everything else they go through :( thank you for talking about this and spreading awareness, I know a lot of people have no idea how bad it actually is. I know I didn't until very recently.
When it comes to making much money some people can lose their mind
You do understand any other animal based products are more than likely just like this to some extents right? You can only be so sure when your at Whole Foods, Target, Walmart, etc etc etc. Even Farmers' Markets are known to be not the most honesty as well.
It's just the village people that only doing that
If you think that's bad, you should see what we do to cows.
Oof wait til you learn about your very local meat and milk industry...
I started liking coffee after I tried Coffee Primero's Magic Cat coffee. They were a small company affiliated with the University of Florida that did some kind of an enzyme treatment to imitate Kopi Luwak. The complete lack of bitterness really appealed to me and allowed me to taste and appreciate the complex flavors of coffee that I covered up with cream and sugar before that. Sadly the company has shut down now, and I am not sure what style of coffee bean or roast can imitate that taste.
Out of interest - genuine question, because I've always wondered - when Americans say 'cream' with regards to coffee, do they mean literal cream of the type you'd pour over strawberries, or is it just a way of saying milk? In England we don't use cream, only milk, aside from in fancy bistros / coffee houses.
@@Blitterbug Here in Minnesota most of my friends and relatives use Half and Half instead of Heavy Cream in their coffee. Half and half is half milk half cream and gives great foam texture while not feeling too rich on the milkfat(10-18%).
@@Alorand Ahh, thanks. Always wondered what half-and-half was!
ב''ה, far from a complete answer but I find coffees grown in more fertile areas - including the popular Colombian, but also Guatemalan, Indonesian and Hawaiian - can have a higher oil content and produce a more acrid roast. Ethiopian and Yemeni coffees, from the plant's origin and where cultivation has been going on for thousands of years, can be milder in that regard though this may be more variable these days with changes in soil management and whatever advice growers are getting from coffee snobs.
I'm not sure how much this controls the bitterness, since that can be the caffeine itself, but it does influence what I would call the "acridness" of the roasted oils. There have also been some specifically low acidity coffees around, particularly in the instant space; some of those might be chemically neutralized with a bit of bicarbonate or similar antacid, not personally sure.
You might or might not like lighter roasts, given e.g. Starbucks fans' preference for what I'd call rather acrid French roasts that have influenced coffee culture generally. Those (lighter roasts) will generally have less of that burnt-oils character to them, but also slightly more caffeine despite their milder flavor.
Edit: Had to look it up but "kava" instant (no relation to the actual kava kava plant) was perhaps the original low-acid instant. Also some sources saying light roasts can be more bothersome to folks with reflux, so your mileage may vary.
@@josephkanowitz6875 Thanks for your suggestion. I have been meaning to try Ethiopian coffee since I often hear that it has a unique flavor. Your comment made me pull the trigger on ordering some. Shalom.
Hey James, I am from Indonesia and thank you for spreading the awareness. Coffee experts in Indonesia also touted the same thing, trying to encourage the public to call captive civets coffee as not coffee luwak. You are right, you can't tell if the one you taste is real or not, the only way is to go here and go to the coffee plantation itself and witness actual wild harvest. There also instant coffee that use brand coffee luwak here, adding more confusion. Although maybe devaluing coffee luwak is how we can win this fight, I don't know really. What I know is, while I am not Indonesian coffee expert, due to our diversity of land, climate, and culture, Indonesia have more than 20 kind of coffee with different taste. I wish I can send you some xD.
I'm not sure how widespread English is over there but yours is quite impressive, if you hadn't said otherwise I'd assume you were a native speaker
@@ExpandDong420 well most Indonesian are bi-lingual, native language and national language as there are many - many language in Indonesia 300 of them iirc the national language became very important for cross culture communication and of course there are many people that can use English as well especially in large cities like Jakarta for business reasons and Bali due to tourism being the main source of income for many balinese people
@@ExpandDong420 I'm an Indonesian, my country is the most trilingual country in the world, I guess, and I speak 4 languages. There's a huge price to be paid to have this kind of widespread 3 languages speaking people which is happened to me. I can't speak natively in a language that spoken in area where I've born, my pronunciation is off and my intonation also weird. I feel like I am not native to any language that I'm speaking. And also, in my town, a student in my highschool required to take Arabic, Mandarin, and Japanese classes. Not all area have this kind of school but it really pain in the ass.
@Afuyan 亜風実 that does sound like a pain but it's also incredibly cool to an American like me, many people here can't even speak their primary language properly let alone 3 of them
@@ExpandDong420 yes, and it's also mandatory for us to learn AT LEAST 3 different languages as early as elementary school. The most common languages are english, local/native languages (i.e. sundanese, javanese, balinese, etc depends on where you are) and also Indonesian. Some institutions included languages like arabic or even hebrew but mainly they are religious school. In my school, we are required to learn 4 languages. Mandarin (since my school is a chinese-international school), sundanese (because we're in west java), english, and indonesian. Most of the people here can comfortably speaks 2 or 3 languages, some even can speaks 5 and it's pretty common here. I can speak 6 (mandarin, english, javanese, sundanese, indonesian, and dutch). So yeah, we're all polyglot by force 🤣
My local specialty coffee shop has the tagline: "We don't sell shit coffee" every time someone inquires whether they might offer Kopi Luwak. This rather vindicates that standpoint. Thanks for this video!
hahaha that sounds like a really cool coffee shop
Super, eye-opening video!
I tried Civet coffee in Vietnam on holiday from what looked liked a a decent establishment that had a bunch about its history, showed samples of the *raw product* etc. but you're right, there's no way of knowing what they roasted and ground for my coffee was that, nor what conditions the civet cats were exhibited to.
Thank you for this video. People need to step away from hype and quit chasing "experiences" that make them feel in someway more interesting than their peers. Being mindful of one's actions and the harm that is done to "experience" something must be considered to be a good person.
Worked at an exotic vet for years and this lady had a couple civets along with weasels she had rescued from unlicensed "pet" owners. The weasels we had to wear kevlar gloves to handle but the civets were super chill. You could scruff them like a cat and do whatever medicating/examination. Real sad to see that quality get taken advantage of.
I love how this was such a departure from James' usual even handedness. He even started it that way, but then it went full revulsion and bile. Glad to know he's able to have a strong opinion on things and share that
You’re a good man, James! Thank you for sharing your coffee passion and wise with us!
DEFINITELY OFF IT. Thank you for the clarification and I can only hope that the animal cruelty will stop with transparency from creators like you.
Was wondering if James was ever going to cover Kopi Luwak. Honestly this industry needs more attention, sickening how Civets are treated for quick short term profits. People with more money than sense being sold a scam.
More money than sense you mean?
James actually covered this in his book the World Atlas of Coffee. Highly recommend it
@@jackearl8520 I just wish he still printed are copies of his jimseven book.
@@paradise_valley Yeah, I never got the chance to grab one myself
This is why I haven't tried it and don't plan to. It seems like a scam with additional animal abuse.
An interesting twist, putting poop BEFORE the coffee 🤔
Excited to hear you on Cooking Issues, James!
This is fascinating. I went to Bali in 2017 and went on a coffee tour, where they had kopi luwak and made the process seem so harmless for them! Grateful to know the truth, even though it's so sad. Thanks for all you do James!
Great video and thank you for spreading the awareness! Having lived in Indonesia I was very tempted to try Kopi Luwak while I was there, luckily I did some research before I did and found the same information as you have discussed in this video and also did not want to support it! I watch almost all your video’s, but don’t usually comment, I hope liking, sharing and commenting on this one helps to promote it and everyone else does the same and it can reach as many people as possible!
I really wasn't expecting you to reference Blockchain technology, and as someone who has knowledge about it, your explanation for why it was a bad idea was absolutely on point.
It was pretty impressive how he was able to sneakily demonstrate his accurate understanding of blockchain with only like three sentences
@@JTTTTTGGGGG Yes! I'll happily listen to criticisms and proposals for blockchain by anyone who actually understands a. how it works, and b. what its limitations are. Most people I hear speaking about it either heard about it on Twitter and think it's the solution to every problem or heard about it on Twitter and think it's the cause of every problem.
@@JTTTTTGGGGG The old saying goes: “If you can’t explain it simply, you don’t understand it.” Obviously some things are more complicated than others, but even the most complex things can be generally explained by someone who actually understands it.
@@JTTTTTGGGGG Totally
@@JTTTTTGGGGG Hell, you can simplify it down even more.
It's a Ledger.
In a sub-10 minute video, James details the history, attraction, and ethical problems of the civet coffee industry, all without drinking any civet coffee or possessing any beans. Kudos!
Paraphrasing the Top comment, a day later for Likes?
"James discusses the industry issues, animal cruelty involved, fraud possibilities, declines to drink it AND does not recommends blockchain in the same video? I love this man more and more with every video"
@@lokithecat7225 youch
Well James I'm marking this one off my bucket list over the last year I have become increasingly deeply invested into coffee it brings me a lot of joy! I absolutely love your videos thank you
Loved how informative this video was. I've heard of Kopi Luwak before but wasn't aware of all this "behind the scene" stuff. Now I'm not interested in it anymore. Thank you!
I'm Indonesian, and let me add this to the pool of facts: of course there have been found that there was 4x kopi luwak sold than produced, all the brand names who sold them often cited in a very fine print that there is actually very small amount of the actual luwak coffee, often only as high as 5%.
Another thing is, all who sell kopi luwak are those who mainly focus to the general market, the lay people who seldom know about traceability, even less about third wave coffees. It's like how Sbux are selling their frappes and telling customers that they're coffee, but instead recommending extra espresso shots.
No respectable third wave coffee roaster in Indonesia as far as I know even sell kopi luwak.
Yup nobody, mostly just tourist in Bali pre pandemic. Went to Batur- Kintamani last month, almost none exist no more.
Infact, thruout our whole history of coffee producing (400 years), I'd say only in the last 20 years we're able to drink proper coffee. These people are worried about how we as an industry and consumer treated Luwak? Are they serious!? As if we treated (and to some extend, still treating) the farmers any better. My god, the ignorance and hypocrisy of these whites are just out of my comprehension.
kopi enak ga bikin kembung
@@mzpedro1450 emang itu ada kopi luwaknya? Kan cm merk wkwk
@@mzpedro1450 yg ini merk doang om. Makanya dia pakenya koffie kan bukan kopi atau coffee. Dia gamau kena kasus kental manis yg ngaku susu tapi ga ada susunya.
Yes the same when I bought Kona coffee in Hawaii. I have tried 100%, but most of the time there is play on words like "Kona Blend" or "Kona Roast".
I believe in 10% is the bar to be official Kona Blend.
When I talk about specialty coffee among friends and family they always ask whether I would drink that coffee from “monkey” poop. I always said no, never thinking of the conditions required to be able to manufacture this type of coffee for mass consumption. This was a video I think we needed for those poor civets.
I appreciate your take on this James! Thanks for making this video.
Thank you for this informative, insightful, and passionate primer on a type of coffee I see talked about more and more (with no mention of the dark process driving it).
I'll admit it, I tried it. It was massively underwhelming.
I will also admit that I wasn't aware of civit mining.
Thank you James.
i used to travel to SW Asia often for work and i've also had it many years ago. not only is it underwhelming, but to me, it was a muted version of normal coffee. like many of these 'luxury for luxury's sake' type of items, it's not worth it and many of the best things in life are widely available to the general public.
It tastes amazing. You're just jumping on James' bandwagon...
@@nadiaelderbas8515 Consider the posibility that your taste is just crap. (pun totally intended) :)
@@ng.tr.s.p.1254 It is also possible that you're just a conformist that has to insult my taste instead of trying it for real.
@@nadiaelderbas8515 You are literally the only person I see in the comments who has this opinion. So I'm gonna have to agree you got weird tastes. Good for you that your shit coffee tastes aren't bothered by the gross mistreatment of a docile species. Don't know how much you'd like to be locked in a cage your entire short life and fed a diet that kills you young.
I used to work in Sumatra as an operation manager on an oil palm estate. When I was there, I joined some workers to gather wild civet droppings for the kopi luwak. Afterwards they gave me some fresh brewed kopi luwak. It was smooth, almost silky soft, very low in acidity. Was it worth the hassle? Not sure. Would it be worth a lot of my money? No. Is it worth the animal cruelty? Defenitely not.
Wow, interesting story, where in Sumatra is this? And you are one of a few people that can verify the taste of the real wild Luwak Coffee. Is it that different from regular coffee?
@@m.n152 Bengkulu region, between Padang and Bengkulu close to the coast.
Great story! Is there another coffee youve had that you think resembled that flavor profile?
@@wannesakkermans2175 I went to padang several times, took a road trip through Lampung, South Sumatra, and then cross Bukit barisan to Padang. I never took the western route though, and never visit Bengkulu. As far as I know Most coffee grown on the southern part of Sumatra are Robusta because of the lower altitude. The exported grade Arabica are usually produced on Aceh(Gayo) and North Sumatra(Mandailing). if it's soft and smooth those Luwak might have some positive effect after all.
This is the only way I would ever try it, sounds like an interesting experience for sure!
the rant on the blockhain at the end ahaha, you're the boss James
Hello James, I am a barista, I just recently got my certification and I just learned with you the real story of Kopi Luwak! ”YOU ARE MY HERO!!!” You are so brave and thank you so much for your kindness and I’m with you ONE HUNDRED PERCENT!
I'm glad you've exposed the cruelty and fraud to a large audience. Let's hope it starts a shift in the market because no demand means no cruel crooks to supply it.
Crazy that it's not very different than the animals that people eat
@@veganpotterthevegan any commodity involving animals always has evil people trying to make a quick buck. I won't buy badger hair shaving brushes because of it. Luckily synthetic fibers are so good now you aren't sacrificing performance for your morals any more.
@@spamcan9208 most animals people eat are as much of a commodity as this coffee
Unfortunately kopi luwak is literally a meme. People who don't even have a clue about the wonderful world of quality coffee and certainly have never heard of a man named James Hoffmann still know about civet coffee and how it's apparently supposed to be the bee's tits because it's in the Guinness book and very expensive. I doubt there's going to be a shift in this widespread belief unless this somehow becomes extremely high profile.
@@veganpotterthevegan There is indeed a difference between ethically raising farm animals and unethically doing so, Vegan The Vegan, much as there's a difference between ethically & unethically raising and harvesting fruit and vegetables.
The biggest fraud in this case was someone using the word luwak simply as a brand name for their instant coffee (they also have the audacity to list some of the actual civet poop coffee "benefits" in their marketing materials lmao)
@Yukikaze Ch placebo effect does its wonders here, you'll know of course as a fellow Indonesian yourself.
@@ref0522 not placebo, but taking advantage of illiterates.
@@ref0522 perhaps helped by the higher content of urea or whatever in it that makes your piss smell extra funky after drinking a cup
@Yukikaze Ch 勇氣カゼ ㅊㅎ
ah that brand sponsoring Korean drama actors huh? Their coffee even smells weird and chemical-y.
Love it James! The Portland suggestion is just gold!
Will hand-on-heart admit that part of me wanted to try "ethical" civet coffee.
Thanks for opening my eyes and helping me realise there's fundamentally no such thing.
Will stick to my yirgacheffe and pea berry I think.
There is ethical Civet coffee. And Jamacian blue mountian is fantastic. I get a small amount a year as a treat. a pound is about 48 usd and up
Fellow CZcamsr, and coffee lover here. Thank you for this video! I had only heard rumblings about so called "poop coffee". I had assumed that there was cruelty in the process, much like foie gras.
I had no interest in kopi luwak, for reasons that should be obvious. But now that I know for sure that it's sketchy and feeds a cruel industry, I can say for certain that it's not worth it. Great video, very informative. Cheers, my friend!
As someone with an engineering degree that has worked for almost two decades in software development, the Blockchain part was hilarious and absolutely correct!
I already loved his exposing of the cruelty involved and then also he added that blockchain is pointless. I love you, James Hoffman!
The price for a pound of truly wild beans would probably be pretty astronomical. Look at the cost of truffles since we people have to hunt them down, now you have to get someone cool with the idea of hunting for turds in a jungle, and just how much plop they would have to collect in a brief period to get enough to produce just a pound of beans.
"We people..." well our dogs and pigs, we follow them and take it sway from them before they can have a taste.
In Canada we have a show called "how it's made" and they showed civet coffee. They of course showed someone doing exactly that, and even experimenting with a "civet toilet" so they could make their life easier. But I'm sure what's shown on how it's made is much different to the reality especially when profit margins are involved.
@@user-lv7ph7hs7l I actually meant for it to just say "we" as in people and the pig/dog and not people because as you point out we have the working animals as well. Thanks for pointing out.
@@brettfuller6603 Well they just deserve sone credit :)
I'm hearing that the Civet coffee is less acidic. For the past several years, I have been adding ~100mg (1/32 of a teaspoon) of baking soda to the 300 ml of water I use to brew my coffee. It takes care of the bitterness. Every so often I forget, and I immediately notice.
This is actually so smart. Does the baking soda have any off taste?
@@chickenbreast7016 Not if you keep the amount of baking soda very small.
definitely gonna try this next time i make a cup
Thank you for bringing to the forefront the ignorance of us humans as consumers never questioning how our purchases are produced ❤
Well said James, I agree whole-heartedly.
always a pleasant surprise to see youtubers I watch commenting on other youtubers I watch - makes me feel less of a pleb.
I feel so guilty because when my wife and I went to Indonesia for our honeymoon, we went to a Kopi Luwak farm and drank some of it. We went because my wife knew that I love coffee and I love being adventurous. The farm was huge and looking back at it, basically a tourist trap. Lesson learned. Thank you Mr. Hoffman and hopefully others do not support this inhumane practice.
Yeah but if you own any smart phone or laptop it’s most likely been made by someone paid less than minimum wage in inhumane conditions. Or the rare metals that make touchscreens work were mined by exploited children workers. Like feeling guilty is pointless at this point. It’s impossible to live without harm.
Or caged eggs.. Or most chicken.. Or veal.. Or.. so many other products..
@@drkb9272 "It's impossible to live without harm" and therefore "all harm is okay" is a terrible take. Avoidable harms should be avoided by anybody with empathy.
@@ElectraFlarefire Keep going, you're almost there!
Live and learn, Gabriel! Glad you recognize it's bad in retrospect and will make more ethical decisions going forward. You hadn't really thought on it then, but are doing so now, which is a sign of a good person!
I learned about this from The Bucket List and I'm glad I watched your video. I'll definitely be spreading awareness about this now.
Very well presented James. Love your channel, you've helped me a lot.
I probably tried it in Bali, at a little farm as part of a tour. It was fine - nothing mind-blowing.
We saw the caged civets while being shown around after the tasting and their living conditions were pretty rough (though the hosts didn't seem to think it was a problem).
They were keen to sell us a bag, we politely declined.
Yeah same, we did the tasting and found it to be meh at best.
Yeah, same.. i tried a few times,, at first i got pretty good one, and then i tried a few more, but never got as good as the first one. l
@@wward5608 I noticed it taste a bit... Acidic? Like digestive acids? Lol or was that just me
luwak coffee from cages civet actually defeats the purpose. the point of luwak coffee is that the luwak/civet wander around so that they can select and eat beans that are good(they can smell a good bean from the bunch). This is why a genuine luwak coffee yield very low amount and the price is absurd. It is very hard to find a genuine luwak because they usually located in deep forest/small village in mountain and not in urbanized city like Bali
@@phennexion Really? Luckily i never had that kind of taste lol, Most of the ones I've tried have a low acidity level
When we were travelling around Bali, our Indonesian friend who guided us around was very hesitant first to take us to one of the Luwak plantations, and it was for the exact same reasons James mentioned here (animal welfare and fraud). When we eventually tasted it, (or what was brought to us as kopi luwak), the experience was... debatable. Conclusion was that there are more enjoyable ways to enjoy coffee specialties than on a luwak plantation.
They put out an alive luwak and the dry bean clumps in front of the booth. It made me hesitant to try kopi luwak in the first place. 😂😂
@@abelsumanas 😱 yikes
I’ve never been jazzed about it but curious. You’ve definitely put me off it, thanks!
Whatever curiosity I had about kopi luwak (absolutely had no desire to drink this anyway), it vanished while watching this. Brilliant presentation, fits the profile of a champion coffee connoisseur.
Had friends bring me back some from their honeymoon to Bali a few years ago. Tried it, hated it, and then proceeded to brew them some fun & funky experimental fermentation coffees to show them truly what "wild & unique" coffee could taste like. And it was still less expensive than the Kopi Luwak. As you said, there are SO MANY better coffees out there for people to experience if they want to try something truly rare & expensive!
When I first went to Hanoi, in 2014, lots of cafes were selling "kopi luwak". it was around 5 times more expensive than other coffess but that just meant it was the price price I'd pay for any coffee at home. so I tried some (even knowing it was probably only ever sold to tourists). it was fine. it was only later that I learned about the issues of caged force fed weasels. even if the coffee resulting from THAT practice was the best in the world, it would still be a total disgrace.
I am from Vietnam and I feel bad that you were served (fake) Kopi Luwak in my country with hefty price. Even if it's authentic, it would be like what James showed in the video where people mistreated these poor weasels.
Hope you had other good experience here. Like a great cup of Vietnamese style milk coffee.
@@mikele7982 I daydream all the time about the many dozens of egg coffees I had there-absolutely delicious!
I thought it was extremely good. I also tried the Vietnamese coffees roasted in butter. Also great. Didn't realize it was a terrible practice
We also tasted weazel coffee in Hanoi with condensed milk the Vietnamese style. I must admit that it tasted amazing. At the time I did not know about the caged Weazels so I convinced the sellers to sell me 2 kg of green weazel coffee. It wasn't too experience compared to the western world. Once in a while I make myself a batch and enjoy it.
I am still not sure about the origin of these beans, and I will never know, but the caged story does take me back.
If you get hold of original beans from a true wild source and a reasonable price I do recommend it. I even tried espresso with it and it was not bad. Different.
James, how do you do your audio? Are you on a boom or a hidden lapel? Your audio is always SO smooth, love it.
Not the video I thought I was watching when I started so glad I watched it. Great video.
James - I cannot get over how incredible you are at your job. Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU for helping me discover my evergrowing love for coffee, and discouraging me from trying Kopi Luwak -- which I've been wanting to do for a while. Can't wait for more videos!
if you want to try the famous Kopi Luwak, try it in Indonesia and meet the real deal, the one you harvest from the ground (poop) in the forest
keep dreaming for it man eventho it may not come true
a bit of soft selling for you to come to my country
I visitied a kopi luwak farm as part of a tour when I was in Vietnam (where it's sold as "weasel coffee") a couple of years ago. The cages were much bigger than the ones in this video - about the size of an apartment bathroom - had planks and branches for the civets to climb on, and looked pretty clean. We were also told that the civets are only kept in the cages during the three months of the year that coffee is harvested, and allowed to roam a fenced-off area of forest for the rest of the year. Obviously I could only take that on trust, but I felt comfortable enough to pay a few USD for a cup of coffee in that situation.
However, this was a single farm, and one that was comfortable having tourists look around. As James points out, most of the time there's absolutely no way to know where and how coffee sold as kopi luwak has been produced. I didn't realise fraud was so rife but it's not surprising in a market with such high markups. Given also that the main appeal is the shock value rather than the quality of the coffee, I agree it's best avoided.
The coffee itself was pretty underwhelming, by the way. I'd describe it as smooth tasting, in that the bitterness and acidity were both low, but the flavour was very mild. It certainly didn't have any of the interesting ferment-y notes that you might hope for - or really anything else to justify the markup. So overall, a potentially cruel production process, high risk of fraud, and a heavily marked up price, all for an unremarkable end product.
good to see that there are people out there who at least seem to try their best at providing good living conditions for the animals. That is assuming the cages aren't simply tucked away in some basement somewhere so the tourists that are shown the nice enclosure don't see them ;) And it would still be better for the animals to get to roam free... It's not even like meat or leather, where we only have inferior substitutes available.
What? In Vietnam?
Civets are not a social animal, no one could afford the size cage they need, they only meet to breed.
Face it, there is no humane way to get this coffee.
These are most likely only the farms we are able to visit.
These tourist "farms" (traps!) are on Bali as well. They show you a very low amount of happy animals and somehow they can produce enough coffee for you and many tourists to order a bag. Of course that coffee you buy and drink is regular coffee or mass produced luwak. Please just stay away from it in general.
Super important video! Keep up the great content creation.
Yes, you have put me off trying it, 100%! Originally I had just wanted to try it because I love coffee and have always wanted to try as many different types as possible. But not this now, now that I know, never this! Thank you for informing myself and everyone else whom has watched this video!
Cringe another white supremacists, the only way to stop it is to only buy it to the verified farmers by the government, not the ones that owned by the village people
I was never really interested in trying Kopi Luwak. But after watching this I will not only not try it myself but I will actively discourage anyone and everyone that I can from drinking it as well. Thank you for posting this video.
Bro you're just another Western supremacists,
The only way to stop it is to only support the verified farmers by the government
If you’re broke just say that
@@Conky88 If you are gross just say that.
I had it once (my experience mirrors yours - it was unremarkable) and after I learned of the cruelty issues I do my best to prevent others from going down that road. Even if it were the most unique, amazing coffee in the world, it's not worth the potential pain and suffering of the animals. Thank you for shining a light on this, James.
You do realize this is far from just coffee products right? Any animal product that is processed centrally at some point are still quite treated just like that. At least for portions of their life cycle. Mainly regardless of what the labels says, your cows, pigs, chickens, etc are still quite likely to be transported and shipped to the very same slaughterhouses as the ones that "conventional" animals are sent to. Even if you did buy from local butchers, farmers, etc they can be dishonest just as well. So you can only be so sure.
Bro if you want to drink luwak coffee go to the ones that got verified by the government
@@VoltzV1 or just don't support that industry, period.
@@rickytorres9089 a slaughterhouse isn't that bad of a death when you consider the way cows naturally die is they break a leg and lay suffering for days until they are eventually too weak to fight off the coyotes/ scavengers and slowly get ripped apart and intestines ate alive.
@@joey9511 The industry itself is horror though because of our reliant on them and the legalities of having at some points needing to get the meats to market (even for donations' purposes). As well as making smaller farms, individuals and so forth difficult if not impossible to legally slaughter and process their own meats.
I love that this is in the beginners playlist haha
You changed my perception of Kopi Luwak, I didn't know much about it. Thanks for making me more informed.
Because he bought the ones that is by the illegal farmers
I feel like caging and force feeding them would interupt this fermenting process. If they aren't eating their regular diet their stomach bacteria will be different ad well as the time the bean spends outside the body in poo exposed to air.
Of course it would. They’re probably fed antibiotics, laxatives, and nutritional tablets to keep them alive for optimum coffee production
I think this would also apply to the “home-made” version described. At least that is my excuse for not self fermenting green coffee beans.
I admit I am possibly missing out on the greatest coffee in the world, but that is O K with me.
Thank you for making this. I have worked in coffee education for 5 years. I get questions about this all the time. This was a concise and serious look at a really repulsive part of our industry. I can now point them to this video to learn more.
I've watched a couple of your videos and this one earned my sub. It's fantastic info and great messaging. I secretly wanted to try this and I'm glad I have this info now, thanks.
I always wanted to try that but now you've definitely put me off it. Thanks also for the additional information on what that product is actually about.
Because these people buy it from an illegal farmers
I was anxious and excited to try a cup in my local high end supermarket here in Mexico. Thanks James for making me change my mind in 10 minutes.
I visited the Philippines in 2019 and was taken to a coffee farm where they had a few civets that they showed to the visitors. They had a very small production of civet coffee but what I wanted - and finally managed to get - was a bag of Barako, the Philippine everyday coffee. This is liberica, and I happen to really like it, not as an everyday coffee maybe, but for variation. If something special should be exported from there, I find the Barako far more unique and interesting than civet coffee.
Barako is an interesting one, I tried it as well. Not sure if anyone is exporting it.
@@GreenTeaViewer There are small amounts available depending on where you are and probably larger amounts if you know where to look, but I don’t know of any big importer into Europe. Between robusta and liberica I would choose liberica any day. That may be just me, but then I also buy almost green beans and roast everything at home… I like variety.
@@zixzysm I made a couple of calls and tried to get some info on liberica while I was in the Phils. I almost went to a plantation but it didn't work out. Filipinos don't respect their bean very much, and a national cafe which featured it went bankrupt. That's not to say that all this can't change, it needs a brave entrepreneur. However, taste tests were not giving me the green light unfortunately. It's the "working man's coffee" and that's partly because of the robust (no pun intended) flavour.
Am Filipino, don't like barako so much. But most foreign people I've met like it.
I find it too bitter and just tastes burnt for me, the caffeine boost is good though. Not my favorite. Along with some other local coffees, I only like a handful local coffees here. And perhaps it's the roasting process that kind of just fucks it up in my opinion.
Tried civet coffee as well and just found it as hyped coffee that doesn't hold up in my opinion.
There are quite some roasters that invested in specialty grade Barako, hopefully they come to production soon.
Thanks. I've been curious for a few years. I appreciate the details.
That was a great discussion about an over dramatized and over priced and blown out of proportion product… it has opened my eyes to why I wouldn’t try it and until now, wanted to “bucket list” it …. I’ll spread the word and hope I don’t change it too much
There's a speciality roaster in Poland called Kafar and as an experiment to settle the argument "once and for all" bought some green kopi luwak and roasted it as they would normally, it was cupped by a Q-Grader and it didn't really score high on any aspect.
Here's a video they made about the whole process, it's in Polish but it has English subtitles:
czcams.com/video/f8yu1r0vYHU/video.html
i was looking for something like this
yeah, I was actually thinking that all the tasters of Kopi Luwak people got on plantations might just have tasted bad because the plantation doesn't necessarily know how to roast coffee (to european tastes)... But this disproves that argument.
I was fortunate enough to try the Luwak coffee at a plantation in Indonesia, I found the coffee a little sweet, fruity, and acidic but by no means anything special. I'm glad James said not to buy it because really even if the quality of the coffee was exceptional it's not worth the pain the animals have to go through
It depends on how the luwak beans are produced.
Thank you for pointing out that this product supports an industry that is cruel to animals. You are a hero to civets! Love your channel!
Thank you for this video. I think your comments sum up this horrific product perfectly.
Thanks for bringing up this issue. I am honestly conflicted since Kopi Luwak has been depicted as a very exclusive coffee and I understand why many people are interested. As Indonesian I was proud of the product until the cruelty was exposed. It seems impossible and sounds naive, but I hope one day Kopi Luwak industry can stay without cruelty, just a limited and truely exclusive business, as how it was before it is marketed massively today.
Thank you James, I have been aware of this coffee for many years and was always curious. Thanks to your video, I am not only no longer curious, but now googling for charities that rescue and release the captive civets.
I am a coffee lover, and I remember talking with an American military guy in Central America-2007-08, we were already drinking amazing coffee, and I was most definitely inclined to try it, now, I'm back in Canada, a decade l8r. Thank you for reminding me...
Thank you for your knowledge and integrity I have really been enjoying watching your CZcams channel.
James you certainly put off any curiosity I had, and replaced it with curiosity from the different fermentation methods some roasters use. I would like to learn more about this!
James mate… I am a barista. I don’t ever consider myself to know the “be and end all” of coffee, but I also know when other coffee “professionals” ideas don’t marry up with the methods they spruik. Your just great… the fact you justify your methods/concerns with science gives your teachings a whole lot of credibility. There are so many “baristas” out there that are taught by other so called “baristas” that the industry is littered with people who have no idea of basic coffee chemistry, let alone even know how to dial in a grinder!! Keep it up!👍👍
Thank you for taking animals and their suffering into consideration. It's always wonderful when famous and big youtubers with huge following use their platform for something other than their own gains and actually do something good.
Respect. Thanks for the detailed info and opening our eyes.
My wife and I were motorcycling through Vietnam some years ago and everyday we were at local coffee plantations and cafes. Only one we visited had 'weasel coffee' although we'd heard of it before. We tried it but could not taste anything remarkable about it. It wasn't until after we'd had the coffee that the owner offered to show us through their production rooms out the back. When we saw how the animals lived we were shocked - cramped into cages with mesh floors, it was horrible.
Overall we found Vietnamese coffee to be very nice with a chocolatey richness and bought some to bring home to Australia when we left. We declared it when we arrived and what we had was approved but the quarantine guy said that weasel coffee is banned in Australia because of the animal rights issues and what we had was only approved because it was in commercial packaging that they recognised.
Lots of Asian countries have a much different view on animal rights than we do. I’m not saying they are right or wrong or whatever. It just sucks for me to see that stuff.
Animal and human rights.
Absolutely terrific video, I loved seeing Mr Hoffman explicitly state his thoughts on this.
Awesome video. Surprisingly serious take, love it.
Love the haircut. The proportions this time are so nice ❤
Thanks so much, James. Crossing this one OFF the bucket list.
I'd love to hear more about rare and expensive coffees. Like Jamaican Blue Mountain. Is it really that good and worth it?
James, thank you so much for your wonderful videos. I didn't know much about this coffee, other than the hype around it. Now I am much more informed and aware of the implications around these beans. As an Italian, you helped me discover my evergrowing love for coffee, beyond espresso and cappuccino from the bar. Can't wait for more videos!
I am a new coffee drinker at age 66 and have become addicted to o James Hoffmann. This video unfortunately does nothing to allay my addiction. The fact that he does the “Portland” bit with a straight face is absolutely wonderful.
Good job. So glad i clicked on this video to find out about Civet Cat Coffee.
As an AI engineer, hearing James talk about the blockchain was something I didn’t know I needed. Thank you sir, you are infinitely interesting.
As a mechanical engineer me neither ;)
As someone who didn't start to enjoy coffee until the second half of his life but does now pretty much, I probably would have sprung on the eventual chance of trying Kopi Luwak out of sheer curiosity. Thanks, James, for my now much better informed decision never to.
Thank you so much for bringing up the issue of animal cruelty. ❤
Completely agreed - it was always something I remember hearing about. Although kopi luwak never appealed to me, it is relieving (I don’t think relieving is the right word) to know that kopi luwak does not taste all too special. Hopefully demand for it can be redirected to better tasting (and more ethically produced) coffees grown in Indonesia.
I was in Thailand at Hua Hin and they sell it. My wife knew that I was dying to try it and she ordered it for me.. It was very expensive and it tasted a lot like cheap harsh coffee. Glad to know now what is going on in the industry. I will never drink it again.
Gross
When I first heard about this coffee many moons ago I wanted nothing to do with it. It’s literally poop coffee. And that was before the animal abuse side of it. James I love your way of pointing out how you can home brew it, the prefect turn off.
i love you for these opinions.
You have convinced me to never drink it. It’s not just the cruelty; I have enjoyed Foie Gras. It’s not just the fraud; EVOO has similar issues with fraud and I still use it. It is the combination of the two that will just get me a coffee that doesn’t taste very good and will cost loads that makes it totally unappealing. Thank you for the information.
It's just the village people that's does that, but if you want to stop the cruelty, then just support the real expert luwak coffee farmer that has been verified by the government
@@VoltzV1 Sure, cos governments are never corrupt or selling verifications for money.😂
@@VoltzV1Or support regular coffee growers. The government can be bribed.