I just realized that the Obito interaction with Itachi where he acknowledges him as an opponent takes place AFTER Itachi gets his MS 💀 That said, I have that round going differently due to that. Sorry guys 🤣
@@t-rizzle0509 Sasuke literally won when they fought in the exams 💀 This is in the context of Chunin Exams rules, as we stated numerous times. Please explain to me how Gaara wins in a fight we already saw him lose in
Itachi is a genius hes one of those characters with prep time he could help defeat characters stronger than him (In my opinion thats what Jiraiya implied when he fought pain that if he knew more he could have won something Pain himself agreed)
Kid Minato stomps because he rizzed up Kushina and stayed with her literally until death so that automatically makes him the biggest chad of all time. However if we're talking about the Chunin Exams, Minato stills stomps because once in a lifetime genius, probably has a pre Rasengan in the works, flying raijin but probably more limited, shadow clones, top intellect, and the best drip of all of Konoha's Chunin Exams maybe except for Kakashi. Extremely creative video!
@@sageofthickcalves True but Minato would see Kakashi do it or Chidori and instantly developed Rasengan on the spot lol (Also, Indra and Ashura team up SOSP gauntlet for the next video)
@@sageofthickcalvesI love my boy Minato, but have to admit he's a hard argue strictly because of the lack of background compared to literally everyone else included here except Bee who is a jinchuuriki candidate. I do think something can be said about the Kushina rescue feat, considering that that was almost assuredly a genin Minato (going by the anime at least, idr if the manga showed the same scene but Kushina was around the age she was in the academy but had her headband) tracking her down by strands of hair and taking out three high-ranked Cloud shinobi who kidnapped her solo no-diff with just a kunai and hands. You could lowball and say 3 chunin but I think the Head Cloud Ninja incident with Hinata is a decent parallel - an Uzumaki jinchuuriki candidate a la Bee vs the young heir to the Hyuuga - and he was at least a jonin. I'd imagine to straight up sneak into the village to kidnap one of the last full blooded Uzumakis at a time between two wars with the Leaf, the Cloud isn't sending fodder scrubs. Midball it at 3 tokubetsu jonin, and genin Minato iced them alone with no effort. Meaning he has a lesser version of FTG in the pocket (like the Second's FTG Slash for a short to mid range port into slash) or, arguably more likely, he has nothing but his base skills and maybe body flicker since we don't see much of the fight in the anime but notably don't see any FTG. Which makes him killing 3 even lower end jonin by himself even more impressive. A fight between the two best young teleporters at that age would be insane, and I think it's a way closer match even with Shisui's Sharingan.
@@sageofthickcalves Just wanted to mention the Shisui part of the video because its easily the most controversial one,i think u left out important parts of Shisui's scaling 1.He scales higher in speed than kakashi does due to his body flicker technique 2.He for sure has mastered the sharingan at that point due to him awakening it when he was 6 3.It was stated that uchihas are masters at illusion(genjutsu),so its only natural to assume that shisui the so called biggest uchiha prodigy at that time was a master at genjutsu too,i dont think kakashi could break out of it at all,since there arent any feats of him doing so in series at all 4.Shisui's ms has two different abilities,one that has a shorter cooldown,which danzo used in 5ks,and the 10 year cooldown that itachi used,its not stated they are different but looking at how danzo spammed it i think pretty much its confirmed Mb for the shisui yap he a very cool dude i think he underrated af character wise
@@Rhaasen 4 isnt confirmed and as they said shisui wouldnt use it in chunin exams for sure. 3 Kakashi was a jonin that alone means he mastered kinda everything. Even genin naruto learned a jutsu to resist genjutsu so a full jonin have to mastered it otherwise kakashi would be a special jonin. 1 It isnt necesseraly true Chidori is a insane speed buff too and Kakashi have actual feat instead of just rumours.
Bro, you are gonna start carrying the Naruto community on CZcams. The era of swag, Seth, and six is struggling, but you, virhtue and TG got this in the bag. Finally a new video I haven’t heard of yet, please dont stop anytime soon 🔥
Yep. I watched a six video and though "damn, this is boring and I used to watch his stuff all tbe time." Swag and Seth I just don't watch now. SoTc, Virhtue and TG are killing it. Fresh ideas and actually don't seem just interested in money.
Seth is still going despite the allegations, but isn't as big as he used to be. Swag basically makes a few videos a year and they're all collaborative efforts so he can just talk podcast style. I haven't loved a video he made since the series on the Ninja Wars and those were from back in 2020. Six just felt like their sidekick/editor.
Its safe to say the story of kakashi isnt about him getting stronger. Its him getting back to his peak. Also waiting for the hokage Tournament of power battle Royal
Naruto slaps all of the kage at the same time because they realize they need to gank him, and he says "do you want my shadow clones to use the kurama avatar as well?"
The thing with neji is that he managed to get outwitted by Naruto. Seeing as how kakashi was a joinin level threat I can see him managing to out smart neji even if neji were to be even close on his combatant level
Haku over Neji can make sense. The matchup seems designed specifically on their skillsets, being the "perfect match" for each other. Neji, with the most accurate and arguably quickest perception and reflexes to match. While Haku excels at long ranged attacks that are unperceivable. The caveat is that we don't know what Haku would have been at his best since his job was simply to stall Naruto and Sasuke in his trap. Another caveat is that his attack, and his transfer to another mirror, was supposed to be at light speed, but this is inconsistent throughout the battle. We have moments where we see him not only move between, but also moments where other characters see and react to him doing so - or react to his attacks, despite not being anywhere near comparable speeds themselves. Had Sasuke been his post-taijutsu training self form the exams, it would make more sense, as he was faster and his sharingan was more developed. Then there's the case of demon Naruto, not even a tailed cloak version, dodging his attacks. If this Naruto is the same speed as the amped Naruto that faced Neji, are we saying that Neji reacts quicker? Or is he just faster than Haku in general? Surely when Haku was pnched out of the mirror he thought that Naruto just couldnt break it. I really REALLY dont want to believe that Haku couldn't have dodged it by going to another mirror. I have more, regarding relative speeds, using Sasuke against this same enraged Naruto, but now it just looks like im arguing against Haku, which is not what i intended. So I'll stop here. As for Kimimaro and Bee.........That's tough. Bee was fast as a kid, but i dont know how durable kid Kimimaros body is. I assume its at least stronger than Gaaras sand armor. I dont want to assume a child Kimimaro has better durability than an adult one with a sickness (on his death bed)
Neji is thirteen, not twelve. Kakashi was twelve during Naruto Gaiden, and twelve when he was promoted to jōnin. Lamentable misinformation. If Neji is the strongest genin in the third stage he is above chūnin many times over since a suppressed Gaara was noted to be above that level just from the Forest of Death performance. The Rotation and Gaara's sand are compared as ultimate defenses in the databook as well, not just by Tenten. Hayate is noted as impressive by Baki, so Konoha might just have higher standards compared to Iwa. Kumo's jōnin commander is above jōnin and closer to almost Kage, not below. Gaara is already insinuated to be jōnin level whilst suppressed and Gaara looks at Neji with an annoyed expression suggesting he is not significantly above him. Ibiki was actually an AnBu captain, and the AnBu are noted to be the absolute strongest in the village alongside the top jōnin, for what that is worth, and he Ibiki leads these AnBu. Wonder if anyone remembers the jōnin, Nishi, or Santa. Shisui did not use Kotoamatsukami on Mukai (somewhat invalidates the subsequent analysis). He does like keeping his Mangekyō in reserve, though, yes. Minato is stated to be unrivaled in his talent, so a prodigy amongst prodigies is not a wrong way to word it. He was able to rescue Kushina when even AnBu failed to do so, and was known across multiple countries even before Minato Gaiden. Minato was already known as a prodigy from the time in the Academy and before. The Uchiha are noted to be delusional when assessing their own combat strength, as seen when Itachi looks over the coup plans and is essentially embarrassed by how stupid they are. Yondaime Raikage seemed like he was A even at the same time as his father, so it seems his is more a legacy title from birth (though he did earn it after his father's death). B is the strongest of the children in Kumo, but A does not he has to slow down his Lariat to match, so he is not actually equal to him, yet. Shisui might be able to use the non-Kotoamatsukami genjutsu on Kakashi and overwhelm his Sharingan's genjutsu defense with his superior mastery of it. Mirai, for example, was able to paralyze Sarada in genjutsu. Kakashi's age calculations are also wrong, still. Shisui has been on the battlefield for almost as long as Kakashi. Not a significant advantage, there. Shisui (and every Uchiha) have two changes in chakra nature; Fire Release and Yin Release (for genjutsu). Kakashi openly concedes Itachi is more talented than he is when he joins the AnBu, albeit, Kakashi is likely being dishonestly modest there. Orochimaru and Zabuza initially stunned Sasuke via bloodlust, but then he cut through it. It does not mean he is relative. Itachi is just no longer afraid, but he would likely still lose and might not even be relative, even much later, Itachi is not considered to even get close to this much younger Obito, since no source (including people who know him, like Kakashi and Jiraiya) think he is capable of controlling Kurama (which Obito did, without even using his Mangekyō). Itachi was twelve when he obtained his Mangekyō so even if Kakashi was stronger Itachi's Mangekyō abilities would likely give him the victory (unfairly so, but oh well): "Moments from the twelve years of his life flickered into existence and disappeared, disappeared and flickered again." (from the end of Itachi Shinden).
I feel Hashirama and Madara would be insane prodigies if they had feats when they were younger. Because if you are beating up adults of the strongest clan in the world and those Adults had to live fighting 24/7 to live to that age that has to be insane and its very underrated.
I mean, resovle amped Madara and Hashirama BEFORE THEIR MAIN POWERS(Sharingan and before Hashi probably awoke Wood style) blitzed Kunais of their fathers. And it's stated that Madara killed "capable adults' of Senju, and he considers Base Tsunade WEAK Senju
@@sageofthickcalves Also y'all saying 12 yo Kakashi is pushing low kage level off of one stretched statement about a random jonin is insane. The guy as a full grown adult wasn't kage level until Shippuden. In series 1 as an adult the guy was still getting aura diffed by Orochimaru, banging with gai no gates, going evenly with Zabazu and getting no diffed by Itachi. So if he was low kage level at 13 he must have literally never improved a drop from then to series 1 because you have to stretch, push tf out of him to even get him to low kage level in series 1. He's at high tier, peak of Jonin.
@@divasrus5774 you’re referencing anime only non canon material. Taking down a high jonin combatant at 10, gaining two more years of war time experience, and adding an additional tomoe (sharingan precog amp) would take Kakashi from a floor of mid jonin level to a ceiling of peak jonin-low kage level. At the end of the day, even if he’s low jonin level, he’s significantly above Neji. Also, I detail in my ANBU Kakashi video exactly why he actually gets WEAKER in part 1 than he was as an ANBU member, and only really regains his full strength by the beginning of the war arc.
@@sageofthickcalves He still dusts neji easily, just saying low kage is a far stretch and I haven't seen the other video but if your claiming he is indeed stronger as an anbu which I disagree with then I don't have as much issue with it. It's still a far stretch to me and no real feats to back it. Him beating a random jonin thats stated to be a strong Jonin isn't putting him at low kage level or even close. That's just personal opinion tho, it could be pushed to as long as your saying he's weaker in p1 than here because he is outright shown to be knowhere near low kage level in part 1.
Trying to compare Neji's and Kakashi's history for scaling purposes is dumb as they were raised in two different environments. I doubt team minato spent loads of time chasing missing cats and the like in the middle of a war. Plus Neji has got to be the most underwritten 'genius' in the entire Naruto franchise. When you say that Neji was being overwhelmed by Naruto Chakra, that not's correct. He was being overwhelmed by the Kyubi. Naruto had very little to do with it. Finally being from a branch family he wasn't even taught the clans techniques and had to waste time trying to re-invent what he'd seen. He been held back so much.
If you take minato’s fear of defeating a couple jonin that kidnapped kushina when they were kids then I’d probably give him the win. I mean the hidden cloud sent jonin to kidnap hinata, so it would only make sense they would send jonin to kidnap the nine tails. But it is only one feat that we don’t know all the details for, so it is mostly speculation to his power at that point. Giving shisui the win is still fair because of that
@@xero1048 yeah the problem is that we know far too little about that. We don’t know if they were jonin, and we don’t know if Minato just used body flicker to steal her away and save her or if he actually boxed them up. With a generous interpretation, though, he’s high jonin at that point.
Im 5 minutes and i need to say i hate what kishi did with neji. I always thought neji should’ve been right there with naruto & sasuke in terms of skill n maybe strength b4 they got the power boost from the sosp, especially with everything we know about the byakuga now.
I need it to be canon that Kakashi was able to handle and use that sharingan bc of how both óbito and him loved Rin. So his rage and love helped him grasp the concept of the sharingan and use it well.
That itachi that did the aura thing to an older obito then the one that held his own against Minato. So itachi during that conversation should be kage level easily.
He used to be featless, but in the one shot, he was able to clash and defeat a full Kurama Bijudama, something not even Sage Naruto could perform that well against half Kurama.
@@user-jb2ev1mu8k I'm pretty sure that was just a symbol. Do you actually think Minato could clash with a full power Kurama Bijudama with a Rasengen he just mastered? It isn't happening even with a fully mastered Rasengan.
There is 1 feat of Minato in his Ganin age when he solo 3 Ninja of Kumogakure, which means Minato in Genin age is at least chunin level and potentially jonin level because in Naruto officials website, the tales of Minato Namikaza, he earned his title of yellow flash by saving kushina from Kumogakure when he was a Genin
Wait, what Virhtue said got me thinking: if "Aye" is the nickname of the strongest in the village, and "Bee" is the second strongest, would logic not follow that anyone with the nickname "C" would be the third strongest? Would that mean C is above Darui and would've been above Yugito? By the way, great video, Sage! Super interesting topic!
@sageofthickcalves Do you think it's possible C started stronger and then post war Darui surpassed Aye, Bee, and C? Cus it also somewhat follows since his name starts with a D lmao I'm not saying it's definite, but it just seems logical to me that if Aye and Bee are given to the strongest that C and D (if it's even a title) would then be the third and fourth strongest.
Also would just mean (assuming this is the case) anyone without that nickname (like Yugito) wouldn't be the strongest in the Hidden Cloud. But again idt it's like definitive, I'm just saying it seems that would follow, but it could also just stop at the title of Bee
I feel like if Naruto took his training a bit more seriously right off the bat, he could be seen as a prodigy, afterall, all the talent in the world would still mean nothing if you do not put in the effort and hard work and that applies to anything in life. Naruto in his early childhood was too busy being a troublemaker and while I sympathise with his circumstances, he definitely wasted that time unlike Sasuke who admittedly had his genius older brother and whole clan for guidance up until the massacre. I mean you can't just be someone with a massive chakra pool and a hokage for a dad, a man who was once the leader of your village and not be someone with immense potential.
@@ikegarries4755 my guy, Hayate had to outspeed Neji there in order to cover more ground and get in front of him. That’s a blitz. Also, just because all of them reacted at the same time doesn’t mean all of them were necessary. Neji is stated to be Chunin level in both the manga and databooks, and the gap between Chunin level and jonin level is enormous. He gets body bagged by any of those jonin. I will say, Kishimoto did him dirty after the Sasuke retrieval arc. He should’ve been way stronger
Agreed. Plus I think it was a little disingenious to leave out the fact Neji was fighting and focused on Hinata not the proctors/nearby Jonin. They even said he was blood lusted. Imagine if he pulled out a rotation in that very moment lol. Assuming he was suddenly fighting the 4 of them. Then using Kakashi as a jonin at the age but was that relative to the rest of the laf at the time? Team Neji lol
@@xcbaby123 A lot of issues here. 1: Neji blatantly gets outsped by Hayate, and isn’t able to react to it until he’s grabbed, despite having his byakugan active. He then scales to Kidomaru, who’s below fatigued special jonin Raido. These two things paint a clear picture that Neji is below that special jonin tier, which is reflected by the numerous statements outright calling him “Chunin level”. 2: 10 year old Kakashi takes down a stone jonin who’s called an “extremely powerful” jonin. This verifiably puts him in that jonin tier, and then he gets 2 more years of training AND an additional tomoe on his sharingan, amping his perception speed. So we have a guy in Neji who’s verifiably below the special jonin tier, and more so on the Chunin tier, and a guy in Kakashi who’s verifiably in the higher end of jonin tier. This isn’t a discussion I’m ngl.
@@sageofthickcalves in what way is Kidomaru relative to Neji? My interpretation of the fight is kidomaru didn’t want the smoke hid found an exploit due to a location advantage
@@HC-gm4fo he’s fatigued and still able to react to Neji’s attacks, even activating the thick orange secretion from his skin in time to counter the gentle fist
Could it be that the reason why Minato is perceived as the most prodigious of the bunch is due to his relationship with Kushina. She probably helped him understand and decode sealing jutsu, which led to him learning a renonound jutsu(flying thunder god)and expanding on it at such an early age. I mean, despite how powerful Rasengan is, Minato and Jiraya never used it enough in battle to build a reputation around it like Kakashi did with the Raikiri. And since Rasengan wasn't all that known at the time anyway, even if Kakashi successfully added a change in chakra nature after learning it, he wouldn’t get the props for it.
So basically Temari Ino Maybe Tsunade Not many females prodegies Ino and temari at best is regarded as exceptional kunoichi more than prodegies but I mean they are impressive
@@kevaughrichardson2595 How is Ino a prodigy? If she is, Sakura is. And you say maybe Tsunade, but Ino definitely is? What? Who regards Ino as an exceptional Kunoichi?
@@pkj2148 idk maybe because she was the 2nd strongest in the academy having the 2nd best grades Sakura won against her because of Naruto and I wasn't talking about her strength more on her skill Taijutsu wise lee acknowledge her skills She has great chakra control And while as a genin can perform c rank jutsu which is chunin level jutsu And was regarded as an e Yea ik not the best Exceptional kunoichi by asuma being the best rookie kunoichi Not the best but this is about female prodegies which none of them is stated to be so I named the kunoichi that were regarded as being skilled kunoichi and if we suppose to get into novel stuff you will understand why I put her as prodigy Girly is the first member of the yamanaka clan to let her mind transfer basically guaranteed to hit because it tracks because she combine it with her sensory powers Taijutsu she fought multiple anbu with tail beast cloak Each anbu are like jonin tier Chakra nature she has 4 manga wise But in anime she use fire so 4/5 chakra natures take it anyway you want but it is still impressive other than team 7 in konoha 11 she has the highest chakra natures and she tie with Sakura fyi when it comes to chakra natures Ino master medical ninjutsu She also developed her own poison Her mind transmission jutsu far exceed her father who is a elite jonin btw She sent a telepathic message to the entire world without fatigue Inoichi was dying send a message to only the alliance Shinobi forces Oop so yea she is very much in a league of her own and is quite skilled Considering basically everything she actually does she either master it or is one of the strongest Medical ninjutsu is not something she specializes in yet she master it Yamanaka techniques She master it and strongest in her clan Sensory powers she is head of sensory so other than sage mode naruto she is the best sensory ninja in the village So yea she is strong and I would put her at least low kage Like let's say she was to fight chojuro The minute she use mind transfer it is guaranteed to hit so the only way of him getting out is to have stronger will than ino which ino will was powerful enough to subdue the ten tails for like 3 seconds which is impressive given the tails power
This convo of Obito acknowledging Itachi as a opponent doesn't mean that they are relative, it just means that it wouldn't be no diff for that Obito. Do you really think that night of the massacre Itachi is KCM+ level? He needed Obito's help to be sure that he can do this mission, Sasuke even points that out during their fight in shippuden, knowing his brothers level and stating that he wouldn't be able to take on all of the police by himself. It's highly likely that Obito can even unironically put this Itachi in genjutsu
@@reikolight it also takes place after he awakens MS, so we can’t draw conclusions from that for the version we’re using. Realized that after so I pinned a comment addressing it. Our b
Itachi broke out of Obito’s Genjutsu before awakening the Sharingan. The same mission his childhood teammate was killed. So Obito’s Genjutsu isn’t doing anything to someone who could see through any Justu.
@@rkvlegacy9206 to be fair, Obito implies it’s one of his weaker genjutsu, and it likely wasn’t even sharingan genjutsu, since he out and entire unit of people under it simultaneously. Some of those people were ANBU members, so the genjutsu was definitely a strong one, but his Sharingan genjutsu would inherently be above that.
@@sageofthickcalves Sharingan jutsu affects any target that looks into the Sharingans eyes. This genjutsu was able to inflict all the Jonin, Anbu and even the feudal lord but Itachi was the only one to break it and instinctively at that. Obito’s age jutsu isn’t doing anything to Itachi who trained with the strongest genjutsu user in the clan.
@@rkvlegacy9206 Brother look at what you just said. All of the people there were affected by the genjutsu, but Itachi and Tenma (Kakashi as well) were able to BREAK IT. They never looked into Obito’s eyes. This wasn’t a sharingan genjutsu. It was some other type of ranged genjutsu. So you can’t use this to say that Itachi can resist Obito’s sharingan genjutsu, when sharingan genjutsu is just stated to be above normal genjutsu.
I mean it makes sense Minato doesn't really have any feats at 12 other than saving Kushina from 3 cloud ninja and there probably just chunin... BUT and it's a big but if even one of them were jonin then Minato possibly wiped a jonin and two chunin no diff and spit some game which will shoot up his scaling like crazy.
I agree 100%. Even if it’s a low jonin, that gets Minato firmly into that jonin tier. That would put him in the conversation with Kakashi and Itachi here for sure.
@@sageofthickcalves But it's still difficult for him to compete with kakshi and Itachi due to lacking any jutsu versatility we don't even know if he has ftg and he definitely doesn't have the rasengan and that's funny because the guy who made the rasengan can't use it here but some other dude can 💀
@@yuushiotempest3660I believe he had ftg pretty young. Based on him needing time to master it completely. Minato was already fast , so that's why he sought ftg so he ha definitely had to have been learning it before he reached double digits
I don’t think that without Sharingan, Kakashi would be able to bypass Shisui or Itachi’s genjutsu. Ocular genjutsu is just different. If you’re caught, you’re done unless you have a partner to break you out.
@@TsuChan_ Kakashi has a 3 tomoe sharingan and has had the sharingan for 2 years at this point. I’d argue he’s at least on the same tier in terms of base sharingan proficiency
I’d also say Naruto was a prodigy just a late blooming one which I think exist in the real world too. Like he struggled with the fundamentals but once he got them down, everything else came to him very easily compared to many others and he progressed at the rate of a prodigy
Gaara vs sasuke seems like a plot armour response imo, I thought the main reason gaara even got hit by the chidori was mainly because of the Konoha Crush, he was essentially a sitting duck while he tried to bring out shukku easist chidori of sasukes life, and you easily argue sasuke could of slipped up and got sand coffind but to act as if it's that clear cut and sasuke takes the win because he can hit gaara with his body, it was clearly explained within those episodes that lee being an even more accomplished taijutsu user wasn't even enough to take out gaara with taijutsu, that being said Sasuke chidori isn't by any means hard to see coming so had gaara seen it coming and wasn't siting duck I honestly find it hard to believe gaara loses
Gaara was getting juggled prior to that. He was forced to go into the dome to protect himself. The other Sand shinobi straight up say that Gaara won’t be able to see the signal for Konoha Crush and that he’s throwing the plan.
Honestly, Gaara vs Sasuke is not that close. I can see Gaara winning in the long term and I think we could consider a partial transformation/chinchuriki chakra like Naruto had on.
@@manudem the difference between a partial transformation for Gaara or Bee and a bit of kyuubi chakra is that Naruto is able to control that amount of kyuubi chakra, while Gaara literally goes insane, and we don’t know what level of control Bee has
One thing you all have forgotten is that even when a bijuu is not cooperative, if it's a do or die situation, they will assist their host. So saying that Itachi wins by genjutsu which isn't tsukuyomi at this point, is laughable. Bee should've gone forward here.
@@sageofthickcalves the chunin exams literally has a stage called the forest of DEATH. The vs battles also had no rules against killing. So if Itachi is like genjutsu gg's. Gyuki is going break him out just out of pride. You literally see Naruto do this with Kurama during his fight against Neji. He told the 9 tails to pay him rent for using his body so Bee, would do the same thing.
Honestly man i hate how dirty neji got done. I think his ability to block out chakra points gets him thru one round. And that man has the byakugan the way naruto “outsmarted” him should not of had worked
@@adrianbrown8899 Kakashi killed an elite Iwa jonin on panel. The gap between Chunin and Jonin level is huge, as stated in the databooks. Neji has no Jonin level scaling.
For Minato vs Shisui you got to realize he rescued Justina on his own. The people that kidnapped her had to have been near jonin level or at least jonin level. Villages wouldn’t send chunin level people to kidnap a Jinchuriki they would most likely send their best. But also Shisui was fighting the anbu with itachi. Those anbu were probably around jonin level as well haha this one was a toss up for sure
Put together a team of prodigies from the lead consisting of Minato, Itachi, Kakashi, Orochimaru, and Shisui. Hard to see them losing in any situation that you drop them in.
@@sageofthickcalves you can really make a vid like that?👀 like a versus, from kid to adult how they would’ve done in the Sasuke retrieval, Gaara rescue, sound 5, pain arc, etc
Kimimaro at 15 was stated to be Kage lvl and could fight KCM1 Naruto without illness. The only one who could be stronger is post massacre Itachi. Edit: any genin in new generations can fight Kage and Otsutsuki lvl characters, so I didn't even bother to mention them.
@@Rdc_Dom As a kid, he could be stronger than Orochimaru since he was able to restrain Jugo, but I'm not sure if it was because of his strenght or his personality. He should still be at least Jounin lvl, he was the only survivor of his clan and was confident on defeating Zabuza in the anime.
Amazing video I wish kakashi was stronger tbh like it would’ve been so cool to see him master obitos mangekyou with more chakra like they nerfed him so hard with that should have gave him like hashirama cells or something
4:57 Naruto's generation is a lot more peaceful than the ones before. They aren't at war anymore, and to some extent, they are trying to keep children innocent as much as possible. Kids like Sasuke and Neji could probably become chunnin early if they were nurtured to that. Sasuke for example, learned the fireball jutsu very early, and based on that, he probably could be at least a genin if he received the right training. The thing is, this pratice wasn't really being done on this generation, even the most talented children were kept at the academy to become genin at the same age as the others, instead of making them lose their childhood and become a killing machine early like Kakashi, Itachi or Minato.
3 tomoe Adult Kakashi said that 4th gate Rock Lee was "fast!!", the same Lee that it was implied that Neji can mentally react too. Kakashi as a kid didn't have 3 tomoe. Neji isn't getting blitz. Adult Kakashi also said "what a fighter!" when talking about Neji's taijutsu prowess. If his taijutsu prowess was greater as kid, he wouldn't act like Neji was all that for his fight with Hinata.
@@DroppedMyController 1: Kakashi is likely comparing Lee to the other genin. 2: We see Kakashi’s eye evolve from the 2 tomoe to the 3 tomoe en route to the MS in real time on page 4 of chapter 605 (you can see it’s a 2 tomoe in chapter 604) Link- www.mangapill.com/chapters/3070-10605000/naruto-digital-colored-comics-chapter-605 So kid Kakashi does get a 3 tomoe before joining the ANBU at 12 years old. 3: Kakashi at 10 blitzed a high jonin level character. Neji at 13 got blitzed by a special jonin. There’s a massive gap there. 4: Again, Kakashi is likely comparing Neji to the other genin. We actually see him make a comparison between Neji and Sasuke mentally right after the Hinata fight. So, when he says, “What a fighter!” he’s not comparing himself to his child counterpart. Another good example of this is when he says bell test Sasuke shouldn’t be able to pull off the fire ball jutsu, since he’s just a kid, despite the fact that Kakashi himself could use the Chidori AND rasengan at a younger age. So Kakashi clearly doesn’t compare these kids to himself, since he was talented enough to become a Chunin at 6.
@@sageofthickcalves 1. Kakashi was likely comparing him to himself, because he lifted headband to use 3 tomoe to track Lee's movements. That wouldn't be necessary if Lee wasn't fast for Kakashi. 3. Neji wasn't blitz by the special Jonin. Neji was mad with rage at Hinata, he wasn't paying any attention to the special jonin. 4. Kakashi was comparing Neji to himself. When he said "what a fighter!" He said something like "even with my sharingan I can't see the tenketsu and regardless of having the Byakugan to be able to do that in battle." Kakashi also had sweat drops when thinking about Neji's prowess.
@@DroppedMyController 1: He did NOT lift the headband to track Lee’s movements. He lifted his headband to see the chakra gates. He literally does this right before explaining the gates, as we see a diagram of them lmao. 2: The databooks confirm Neji had resolved to kill Hinata there. He was 100% blitzed by Hayate, a special jonin. 3: Those two statements happen apart from one another. In one, he’s responding to how masterful Neji is at the gentle fist, and the other he’s explaining the gentle fist and how the byakugan works. He then compares him to Sasuke. 4: Again, Neji is verifiably below special jonin, while Kakashi is verifiably above high jonin. More scaling to verify that for Neji is that Kidomaru in CM2 is below fatigued Genma or Raido (it’s unclear which one he faced). We know this because Genma and Raido, right after a mission, right after stating “I’m so exhausted,” face off against the CM2 Sound 4 and push them to their limits, forcing them to retreat without being able to kill them. This puts heavily fatigued Genma & Raido (both special jonin) ≈ the CM2 Sound 4 as a unit. So, fresh Genma & Raido would be > the CM2 Sound 4 as a unit, which inherently means either of them would be > Kidomaru. Since Neji is ≈ Kidomaru, he’s verifiably below Genma and/or Raido, even when they’re massively fatigued.
1. In talking about Kakashi lifting the headband in preparation for Lee's Gated movements. Not his base movements. 2. I know Neji was 100% trying to kill Hinata, that's my point. He was mad with rage at Hinata, he wasn't paying any attention to the special Jonin at all. That's why it wasn't a blitz. 3. They aren't separate. Kakashi said that "what a fighter!" in response to learning that Neji had pressed several tenketsu. When Kakashi says that even his sharingan can't see the tenketsu and implies seeing the tenketsu so accurately in battle he's elaborating on what makes Neji such an impressive fighter. 4. In the data book chunin exam Neji has higher stats in taijutsu and speed then Kabuto. And when it comes to the sound 4 Kidoumaru stated he thinks he was the only one of the sound 4 that could handle him.
@@DroppedMyController 1: Prove it’s to track his movements, not to see the chakra in the gates. What you’re claiming is never stated or implied 2: Neji got blitzed because Hayate covers more ground than he does in a shorter amount of time. That’s how that works. The distance Hayate and the other jonin covered there is FAR greater than the distance Neji covered, and they did it in a significantly shorter time frame. Therefore, Neji cannot move as far as Hayate can in the same amount of time, making him significantly slower. He got physically blitzed by a special jonin. www.mangapill.com/chapters/3070-10080000/naruto-digital-colored-comics-chapter-80 3: Brother, those statements happen on different pages 💀 He says “what a fighter” right after Hinata’s arm is revealed to have been tagged by the gentle fist. Then, after Naruto asks, “What’s he saying?” Kakashi goes into the tenketsu points and at the end of that he explains that not even the sharingan can see them. These are two separate lines of thought that take place on two separate pages. One is Kakashi thinking to himself, the other is him responding to Naruto’s question. To link those is about as disingenuous as possible: 4: The databook stats are not to be used to compare one fighter to the next. They’re literally called progress charts, and they’re described as being charts to track an individual’s progress. Neji also has a greater speed stat than Hiruzen in databook 1, despite Hiruzen being relative to Orochimaru, who’s above all of the S4 and Kabuto. Most people don’t understand what the progress charts are for, so I don’t hold it against you, but those can’t be used for anything other than tracking an individual’s progress. Again, though, the fact that Neji is relative to Kidomaru, whose below fatigued Raido, a special jonin, inherently puts him below jonin level.
I like these takes, sharingan is way too stacked early into the show. Though I feel like the other non-uchiha prodigy’s would be wary of sharingan’s abilites. Bee could possibly break genjustu through 8-tails and I find it hard to believe minato would fall under genjustu easily.
I’m on match up one and I just want to say Naruto is so fast that he completely disappeared from Neji‘s line of sight for a moment . Something that took multiple gates in the earlier exam to do. If Kakashi is slightly above guy during their time then honestly a gifted Hyuga may be Kakashi’s match. Because he knows what the leaf is capable of and he was still surprised by Young Neji. If he doesn’t have chidori, he’s not getting to Neji period.
@@sageofthickcalves did he get blitzed? She’s the heir of the most royal house, and they let him get in range of her. The sound 4 are high chunnin with Jonin abilities. And without the cover of TheForest Neji was taking down his opponent off of blitz alone, and killed that ninja with a blitz. Meaning that without that specific battlefield, Neji would’ve taken down a high chunnin ninja like it was nothing.
About Shisui. Only one of his eyes has a 10 year cool down. The other is like a 1 day cool down so I could see him using it on Minato to force him to surrender the match
@@sageofthickcalves Very versatile list I fw it. I forgot to put my dude Minato in my list so my top 5 in order would be 1. Itachi 2. Mangetsu 3. Minato 4. Kimimaro 5. Haku
Tip: You should just keep it within the exam itself. Who cares if its unlikely for someone to use sn ability that has a 10 year CD. If it were me if it was to win im using the ability.
I think kakashi beats or at the very LEAST goes even with Sasuke just cause his taijutsu was better. No, i havent watched the video yet, i sorry. I just wanted to point out how Kakashi could already generate Chidori (and spam it) at that age while Sasuke had to do a special sharingan based taijutsu training to reach that level of physical capability + Sasuke could only generate 2 Chidori, unless you count the 3rd one with the curse mark, which leaves him paralyzed afterward. Honestly, Kakashi's experience at that age really just trumps people from the generation directly after. Both taijutsu and general combat. Not everyone has the privilege to spar with elite ninja (not limited to the 3rd hokage) for training exercises. And no, this isn't glaze or hate. I just randomly thought of this and spilled my words on the keyboard.
Kakashi is my favorite for this challenge tbh. If not Kakashi then Itachi. It's impressive that Itachi survived the same war as Kakashi at a younger age, but Kakashi completed much harder assignments
@t2nexx561 The video's point is that Itachi being stronger than 4 year old Kakashi at the same age doesn't mean he's stronger than 12 year old Kakashi at the same age
This was a good video overall. I also think I mostly agree. I don't know if y'all do One piece, but there's some interesting discussions to be had with both series.
"Kakashi is 10 and has the sharingan" sent me on a short googling spree to find info refute such nonsense for myself, but yeah Kakashi's ages are just a huge mess...
@@notthis9586 yeah the only way it works, without literally throwing out the entire of the databooks and novels, is to have him be 3-4 years younger than Obito. His age isn’t the issue. It’s the ages of the other konoha jonin that creates a problem. He was a Chunin at 6 in manga, databook, and novel canon, while the others only have databook statements, so his age should be the one we build around.
Intercepting Nejis attack doesn't necessarily mean they were faster considering where they were standing. Plus Neji was singlemindedly running towards Hinata. So I think it was more of he was off guard in terms of not expecting to be stopped. Lees speed without weights was able to tag Gaara, a character who the sand village was surprised could be touched (Baki included), the same dude who Hayate couldn't escape from.
@@yuan713 Neji is stated to have been resolved to kill Hinata. That means he was definitely going all out. Hayate covers a greater distance in a shorter time. He verifiably outsped him there.
@@sageofthickcalvesWhere you do scale Baki? Baki blitzed Hayate, and was in awe of someone tagging Gaara. Wouldn't that mean Baki isn't capable of beating Gaara at least via speed.
@@yuan713 Baki was relative to Hayate. The thing with Baki is we don’t know if he’s ever tried to face Gaara, so he’s in awe because of what he’s heard or from seeing Gaara in his transformed state. Baki should be low to mid jonin level
1. kotoamatsukami isn't a 10 year cooldown for shisui, it's a 10 year cooldown for the crow (which basically had no chakra). This is also why danzo's cooldown was less than a day 2. if we're doing it by age, we can use the gaara that fought kimimaro, and that gaara > sasuke. Sand tsunami + giant sand burial is too much for sasuke. 3. during the war, shinobi were promoted to jonin with a much lower bar, this is due to the shinobi shortage (confirmed)
@@its_hokori 1: That’s not true. Itachi says Shisui’s mongekyo has a 10 year cooldown, unless someone is using Hashirama calls THAT is why Danzo’s cooldown was significantly shorter. Page 12: www.mangapill.com/chapters/3070-10550000/naruto-digital-colored-comics-chapter-550 2: Yeah you can argue that Gaara is around 12, but you could also argue he hadn’t just turned 12. 3: It’s never stated that shinobi were promoted to jonin faster because of wartime. It’s confirmed they were pushed through the academy faster. This is stated for both Kakashi and Itachi in the Itachi midnight novel.
The whole ranking is innately biased by limiting shisui because it’s the “chunin exams” it’s unfair. Everyone else can use their whole moveset but he’s limited
@@icynoah__133 Sasuke can’t use his whole move set. He’s not allowed to use the curse mark. Gaara isn’t allowed to go partial transformation, neither is Bee. We took MS away from Itachi, despite the fact that he is 12 when he gets Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi.
Tbh, don't really understand why did you decide to include Gaara. The only reason why Gaara is so strong is because he is a Jinchuriki and he has this unique ability of sand manipulation which he had gotten from his mom. It would be great if you include Haku instead of Gaara in a match-up with Sasuke, would love to hear a speculation on rematch of Sasuke and Haku.
@@user-fy3ot5ul5d Gaara is clearly a prodigy, as evidenced by what he does after he loses Shukaku, but I see what you mean. The problem with Haku is that we don’t know how strong he was at 12.
@@DequanFloyd well, yes, I remember that he beat the score in the forest of death but, once again, the reason why he managed to do that is because he can control sand (i mean to fly using it) and that is the ability he got from his mom, he didn't work hard to get it. For me, personally, it looks more like an abuse of the Chunin exams rules which were written without an idea that some people would have a fly ability. I mean, if we compare Gaara with Itachi, Itachi has been showing that he really is a prodigy numerous times. He was very mature for his age and his Battle IQ was on another level in comparison with other chunins or genins. He also had incredible analytical (fight with Kabuto), psychological (fight with Naruto/Kabuto) and strategical (fight with Sasuke) achievements. Overall, well yes, if Kakashi and Anko stated that Gaara is a prodigy then yes, he really is a prodigy in Naruto, but I just don't agree with their opinion.
I feel Minato if we had more feats of him would probably easily win by feats are not there and the one shot novel also helps him put him way above even akatsuki level
@@sageofthickcalves We don't know anything about 12 year old Bee either, I'd just have replaced him with Rock Lee at that point I guess? Idr if he was specifically called A prodigy when he used the Gates on Gaara though
@@AshesOTFRBased yeah but kid Bee has enough feats and lore implications to get a good idea of where he should be. He also just got a bad first round matchup tbh
Solid takes for all characters. However in Itachi’s case against Kakashi, I think y’all forgot to mention Itachi and Shisui’s fight against those anbu shinobi. I’m pretty sure Itachi was 8 at that time, and he fully outsmarted/outperformed someone from the Anbu.
I think 12 yo Shisui pulls off the upset vs Minato AND Kakashi. Shisui peaks early in his genius just like Kakashi. Then like a lot of characters he never sees his full potential. 3 things are important: >Shisui vs Anbu in anime, Bodyflicker/MS >Minato’s FTG probably being useless in combat at age 12 and more like Raido’s FTG >Kakashi’s fights vs the Stone Jonin aren’t convincing enough to me. He’s a Jonin but he was saved by Minato and Obito. Shisui on the other hand was more near Anbu if you count the anime arc which I believe is canon.
I just realized that the Obito interaction with Itachi where he acknowledges him as an opponent takes place AFTER Itachi gets his MS 💀 That said, I have that round going differently due to that. Sorry guys 🤣
Is Itachi 13 at that point when he encounters Obito?
Bro you’re really pinning this so I see and infer the result before I watch the video
@@andrewdeibel3030 my bad brother. Just fixed it
@@Rdc_Dom he’s 12, but we said pre-Ms, so it’s the same year of life but before that
@@Rdc_Dom he's 11 or 12 when makes Obito commit to the massacre.
4 out of 8 have the Sharingans, all 4 got pass first round lol. The Sharingans are just OP at this level of fight.
@@billypham5024 100%
D riding Uchihas again
Dude put Sasuke over Gaara. I stopped taking the rest of the video seriously after that.
@@t-rizzle0509 Sasuke literally won when they fought in the exams 💀 This is in the context of Chunin Exams rules, as we stated numerous times. Please explain to me how Gaara wins in a fight we already saw him lose in
@@t-rizzle0509 its not too late to delete this
I love how Obito really said "these fools could never make me sweat" but got threatened by Itachi's attitude
💀
😂😂
Obito is fooling fools 🤣.
Itachi is a genius hes one of those characters with prep time he could help defeat characters stronger than him (In my opinion thats what Jiraiya implied when he fought pain that if he knew more he could have won something Pain himself agreed)
@@DTheCritical What is itachi preping exactly ? i don't think he need prep time tbh.
Kid Minato stomps because he rizzed up Kushina and stayed with her literally until death so that automatically makes him the biggest chad of all time. However if we're talking about the Chunin Exams, Minato stills stomps because once in a lifetime genius, probably has a pre Rasengan in the works, flying raijin but probably more limited, shadow clones, top intellect, and the best drip of all of Konoha's Chunin Exams maybe except for Kakashi. Extremely creative video!
@@revalier3670 I agree with all of that EXCEPT we know for a fact he doesn’t start thinking about the rasengan until he’s 14
@@sageofthickcalves True but Minato would see Kakashi do it or Chidori and instantly developed Rasengan on the spot lol (Also, Indra and Ashura team up SOSP gauntlet for the next video)
@@revalier3670bro ts wouldn’t happen
@@sageofthickcalvesI love my boy Minato, but have to admit he's a hard argue strictly because of the lack of background compared to literally everyone else included here except Bee who is a jinchuuriki candidate.
I do think something can be said about the Kushina rescue feat, considering that that was almost assuredly a genin Minato (going by the anime at least, idr if the manga showed the same scene but Kushina was around the age she was in the academy but had her headband) tracking her down by strands of hair and taking out three high-ranked Cloud shinobi who kidnapped her solo no-diff with just a kunai and hands.
You could lowball and say 3 chunin but I think the Head Cloud Ninja incident with Hinata is a decent parallel - an Uzumaki jinchuuriki candidate a la Bee vs the young heir to the Hyuuga - and he was at least a jonin. I'd imagine to straight up sneak into the village to kidnap one of the last full blooded Uzumakis at a time between two wars with the Leaf, the Cloud isn't sending fodder scrubs. Midball it at 3 tokubetsu jonin, and genin Minato iced them alone with no effort. Meaning he has a lesser version of FTG in the pocket (like the Second's FTG Slash for a short to mid range port into slash) or, arguably more likely, he has nothing but his base skills and maybe body flicker since we don't see much of the fight in the anime but notably don't see any FTG. Which makes him killing 3 even lower end jonin by himself even more impressive.
A fight between the two best young teleporters at that age would be insane, and I think it's a way closer match even with Shisui's Sharingan.
@@revalier3670the glazing is hard here
This has to be probably one of the most creative naruto videos ever,amazing content bro keep it up
I appreciate that bro!
@@sageofthickcalves Just wanted to mention the Shisui part of the video because its easily the most controversial one,i think u left out important parts of Shisui's scaling
1.He scales higher in speed than kakashi does due to his body flicker technique
2.He for sure has mastered the sharingan at that point due to him awakening it when he was 6
3.It was stated that uchihas are masters at illusion(genjutsu),so its only natural to assume that shisui the so called biggest uchiha prodigy at that time was a master at genjutsu too,i dont think kakashi could break out of it at all,since there arent any feats of him doing so in series at all
4.Shisui's ms has two different abilities,one that has a shorter cooldown,which danzo used in 5ks,and the 10 year cooldown that itachi used,its not stated they are different but looking at how danzo spammed it i think pretty much its confirmed
Mb for the shisui yap he a very cool dude i think he underrated af character wise
@@Rhaasen 4 isnt confirmed and as they said shisui wouldnt use it in chunin exams for sure. 3 Kakashi was a jonin that alone means he mastered kinda everything. Even genin naruto learned a jutsu to resist genjutsu so a full jonin have to mastered it otherwise kakashi would be a special jonin. 1 It isnt necesseraly true Chidori is a insane speed buff too and Kakashi have actual feat instead of just rumours.
No haku!?
@@michaelmatthias9495 we have no idea how strong Haku was at 12
Bro, you are gonna start carrying the Naruto community on CZcams. The era of swag, Seth, and six is struggling, but you, virhtue and TG got this in the bag. Finally a new video I haven’t heard of yet, please dont stop anytime soon 🔥
I appreciate that, brother! 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼
Yep. I watched a six video and though "damn, this is boring and I used to watch his stuff all tbe time." Swag and Seth I just don't watch now. SoTc, Virhtue and TG are killing it. Fresh ideas and actually don't seem just interested in money.
@@teeboz6237Same, damn
Seth is still going despite the allegations, but isn't as big as he used to be. Swag basically makes a few videos a year and they're all collaborative efforts so he can just talk podcast style. I haven't loved a video he made since the series on the Ninja Wars and those were from back in 2020. Six just felt like their sidekick/editor.
I like sage but NCHAMMER is the 1…….
Its safe to say the story of kakashi isnt about him getting stronger. Its him getting back to his peak.
Also waiting for the hokage Tournament of power battle Royal
@@johnsonjohnny675 I agree with that!
That could be interesting if we take the first 5 🤔
@@sageofthickcalves yea anything after the 4th war gets weird. Ninjas and potential vs aliens and bio engineered genetics.
Yeah since day 1 Kakashi talked about being washed and then bro got in his training arc bag. Goat tbh
Naruto slaps all of the kage at the same time because they realize they need to gank him, and he says "do you want my shadow clones to use the kurama avatar as well?"
@@djspit8929 well thats why we discussed the first 5
The thing with neji is that he managed to get outwitted by Naruto. Seeing as how kakashi was a joinin level threat I can see him managing to out smart neji even if neji were to be even close on his combatant level
for sure.
He wins from breaking his resolve
He wins from breaking his resolve
Kakashi was casually beating Guy in Taijutsu spars he’s gotta be the best here in Taijutsu
Uh no gentle fist hits different @@Edjuyl
I’d have liked to have seen Haku and Kimmimaro over Neji and Bee. Their unique abilities would’ve been interesting to throw into the mix.
@@Prince_Luci yeah me too, but we don’t know how strong they were at 12
@@sageofthickcalves it’s a good restriction to have set. It kept things from getting too nebulous.
Haku over Neji can make sense. The matchup seems designed specifically on their skillsets, being the "perfect match" for each other. Neji, with the most accurate and arguably quickest perception and reflexes to match. While Haku excels at long ranged attacks that are unperceivable. The caveat is that we don't know what Haku would have been at his best since his job was simply to stall Naruto and Sasuke in his trap. Another caveat is that his attack, and his transfer to another mirror, was supposed to be at light speed, but this is inconsistent throughout the battle. We have moments where we see him not only move between, but also moments where other characters see and react to him doing so - or react to his attacks, despite not being anywhere near comparable speeds themselves. Had Sasuke been his post-taijutsu training self form the exams, it would make more sense, as he was faster and his sharingan was more developed. Then there's the case of demon Naruto, not even a tailed cloak version, dodging his attacks. If this Naruto is the same speed as the amped Naruto that faced Neji, are we saying that Neji reacts quicker? Or is he just faster than Haku in general? Surely when Haku was pnched out of the mirror he thought that Naruto just couldnt break it. I really REALLY dont want to believe that Haku couldn't have dodged it by going to another mirror.
I have more, regarding relative speeds, using Sasuke against this same enraged Naruto, but now it just looks like im arguing against Haku, which is not what i intended. So I'll stop here. As for Kimimaro and Bee.........That's tough. Bee was fast as a kid, but i dont know how durable kid Kimimaros body is. I assume its at least stronger than Gaaras sand armor. I dont want to assume a child Kimimaro has better durability than an adult one with a sickness (on his death bed)
@@sageofthickcalveshow? Wasnt haku 12 during the fight with naruto and sasuke???
@@battousaithekingslayer9913 no Haku was 15
Neji is thirteen, not twelve.
Kakashi was twelve during Naruto Gaiden, and twelve when he was promoted to jōnin. Lamentable misinformation.
If Neji is the strongest genin in the third stage he is above chūnin many times over since a suppressed Gaara was noted to be above that level just from the Forest of Death performance.
The Rotation and Gaara's sand are compared as ultimate defenses in the databook as well, not just by Tenten.
Hayate is noted as impressive by Baki, so Konoha might just have higher standards compared to Iwa.
Kumo's jōnin commander is above jōnin and closer to almost Kage, not below.
Gaara is already insinuated to be jōnin level whilst suppressed and Gaara looks at Neji with an annoyed expression suggesting he is not significantly above him.
Ibiki was actually an AnBu captain, and the AnBu are noted to be the absolute strongest in the village alongside the top jōnin, for what that is worth, and he Ibiki leads these AnBu.
Wonder if anyone remembers the jōnin, Nishi, or Santa.
Shisui did not use Kotoamatsukami on Mukai (somewhat invalidates the subsequent analysis). He does like keeping his Mangekyō in reserve, though, yes.
Minato is stated to be unrivaled in his talent, so a prodigy amongst prodigies is not a wrong way to word it. He was able to rescue Kushina when even AnBu failed to do so, and was known across multiple countries even before Minato Gaiden. Minato was already known as a prodigy from the time in the Academy and before.
The Uchiha are noted to be delusional when assessing their own combat strength, as seen when Itachi looks over the coup plans and is essentially embarrassed by how stupid they are.
Yondaime Raikage seemed like he was A even at the same time as his father, so it seems his is more a legacy title from birth (though he did earn it after his father's death).
B is the strongest of the children in Kumo, but A does not he has to slow down his Lariat to match, so he is not actually equal to him, yet.
Shisui might be able to use the non-Kotoamatsukami genjutsu on Kakashi and overwhelm his Sharingan's genjutsu defense with his superior mastery of it. Mirai, for example, was able to paralyze Sarada in genjutsu. Kakashi's age calculations are also wrong, still.
Shisui has been on the battlefield for almost as long as Kakashi. Not a significant advantage, there.
Shisui (and every Uchiha) have two changes in chakra nature; Fire Release and Yin Release (for genjutsu).
Kakashi openly concedes Itachi is more talented than he is when he joins the AnBu, albeit, Kakashi is likely being dishonestly modest there.
Orochimaru and Zabuza initially stunned Sasuke via bloodlust, but then he cut through it. It does not mean he is relative. Itachi is just no longer afraid, but he would likely still lose and might not even be relative, even much later, Itachi is not considered to even get close to this much younger Obito, since no source (including people who know him, like Kakashi and Jiraiya) think he is capable of controlling Kurama (which Obito did, without even using his Mangekyō).
Itachi was twelve when he obtained his Mangekyō so even if Kakashi was stronger Itachi's Mangekyō abilities would likely give him the victory (unfairly so, but oh well):
"Moments from the twelve years of his life flickered
into existence and disappeared, disappeared and flickered again." (from the end of Itachi Shinden).
I feel Hashirama and Madara would be insane prodigies if they had feats when they were younger. Because if you are beating up adults of the strongest clan in the world and those Adults had to live fighting 24/7 to live to that age that has to be insane and its very underrated.
True it would just be hard to put them in a video like this because they’re capabilities at that age are more vague
i feel that nagato too would be insane in this tournament
I mean, resovle amped Madara and Hashirama BEFORE THEIR MAIN POWERS(Sharingan and before Hashi probably awoke Wood style) blitzed Kunais of their fathers. And it's stated that Madara killed "capable adults' of Senju, and he considers Base Tsunade WEAK Senju
Weird how none of the sharingan users ended up facing each other on a "random draw" and all 4 made it through round 1 😀😂.
It was a random roll dawg idk what to tell you lmao
@@sageofthickcalves Also y'all saying 12 yo Kakashi is pushing low kage level off of one stretched statement about a random jonin is insane. The guy as a full grown adult wasn't kage level until Shippuden. In series 1 as an adult the guy was still getting aura diffed by Orochimaru, banging with gai no gates, going evenly with Zabazu and getting no diffed by Itachi. So if he was low kage level at 13 he must have literally never improved a drop from then to series 1 because you have to stretch, push tf out of him to even get him to low kage level in series 1. He's at high tier, peak of Jonin.
@@divasrus5774 you’re referencing anime only non canon material. Taking down a high jonin combatant at 10, gaining two more years of war time experience, and adding an additional tomoe (sharingan precog amp) would take Kakashi from a floor of mid jonin level to a ceiling of peak jonin-low kage level. At the end of the day, even if he’s low jonin level, he’s significantly above Neji.
Also, I detail in my ANBU Kakashi video exactly why he actually gets WEAKER in part 1 than he was as an ANBU member, and only really regains his full strength by the beginning of the war arc.
@@sageofthickcalves He still dusts neji easily, just saying low kage is a far stretch and I haven't seen the other video but if your claiming he is indeed stronger as an anbu which I disagree with then I don't have as much issue with it. It's still a far stretch to me and no real feats to back it. Him beating a random jonin thats stated to be a strong Jonin isn't putting him at low kage level or even close. That's just personal opinion tho, it could be pushed to as long as your saying he's weaker in p1 than here because he is outright shown to be knowhere near low kage level in part 1.
@@divasrus5774Gotta agree, there is a big jump from mid, high Jonin to low kage level lol.
This is the greatest idea for a vid ive seen in years bravo!
I appreciate that! 🙏🏼
Trying to compare Neji's and Kakashi's history for scaling purposes is dumb as they were raised in two different environments. I doubt team minato spent loads of time chasing missing cats and the like in the middle of a war. Plus Neji has got to be the most underwritten 'genius' in the entire Naruto franchise. When you say that Neji was being overwhelmed by Naruto Chakra, that not's correct. He was being overwhelmed by the Kyubi. Naruto had very little to do with it. Finally being from a branch family he wasn't even taught the clans techniques and had to waste time trying to re-invent what he'd seen. He been held back so much.
Pretty sure he meant by Naruto’s kyubi chakra bro when he said that
This is actually the most interesting Naruto vids I’ve seen in a long time. Loved the content!
@@kingtorra6955 thank you so much! ‘How Strang Is ANBU Itachi’ coming next week, after one more Minato video tomorrow 🫡
This was a really great video. Usually, power scaling videos are kind of questionable but I like how you both weighed out everything logically.
@@Pomoriee thank you!
Sage, virtue and thundergod are the new big 3 of Naruto CZcamsrs
@@SuperKamiGuru831 w🔥
Ironically you'd think they would have evolved into Boruto channels but nobody wants to see that
swagkage still clears all 3
@@RasuiTheFallen he’s the GOAT
@@RasuiTheFallen yea I fw swagkage but he doesn’t make content as much anymore
If you take minato’s fear of defeating a couple jonin that kidnapped kushina when they were kids then I’d probably give him the win.
I mean the hidden cloud sent jonin to kidnap hinata, so it would only make sense they would send jonin to kidnap the nine tails.
But it is only one feat that we don’t know all the details for, so it is mostly speculation to his power at that point. Giving shisui the win is still fair because of that
@@xero1048 yeah the problem is that we know far too little about that. We don’t know if they were jonin, and we don’t know if Minato just used body flicker to steal her away and save her or if he actually boxed them up. With a generous interpretation, though, he’s high jonin at that point.
Im 5 minutes and i need to say i hate what kishi did with neji. I always thought neji should’ve been right there with naruto & sasuke in terms of skill n maybe strength b4 they got the power boost from the sosp, especially with everything we know about the byakuga now.
I need it to be canon that Kakashi was able to handle and use that sharingan bc of how both óbito and him loved Rin. So his rage and love helped him grasp the concept of the sharingan and use it well.
I like this, but it’s probably just that he was a genius tbh
This actually needs its own manga and anime adaptation 😌
Sage and Virhtue uploading on the same day we eating fr 🙏
🍽️
I think the logic makes sense here , I just feel like minato clears tho, ofc I wish we had more minato child info to back that up
That itachi that did the aura thing to an older obito then the one that held his own against Minato. So itachi during that conversation should be kage level easily.
@@josebarrientos5516 check pinned comment
@@sageofthickcalves I saw that. How strong do you think that freshly gained MS itachi is? More simply do you think he’s Kage level at that point?
@@josebarrientos5516 yeah definitely because of his base stats increase and he gains Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi
Minato the great featless one at this age
He used to be featless, but in the one shot, he was able to clash and defeat a full Kurama Bijudama, something not even Sage Naruto could perform that well against half Kurama.
@@user-jb2ev1mu8k I'm pretty sure that was just a symbol. Do you actually think Minato could clash with a full power Kurama Bijudama with a Rasengen he just mastered? It isn't happening even with a fully mastered Rasengan.
@@pkj2148 i mean we see him do it so....
There is 1 feat of Minato in his Ganin age when he solo 3 Ninja of Kumogakure, which means Minato in Genin age is at least chunin level and potentially jonin level because in Naruto officials website, the tales of Minato Namikaza, he earned his title of yellow flash by saving kushina from Kumogakure when he was a Genin
@@devilgod4552 Yeah but that's almost nothing against defeating full Kurama tbh.
ofcourse the GOAT in the thumbnail! 🔥🔥🔥
Liked the vid as soon as I read the title. Excellent idea for a video
Thank you so much!
u guys killin it always got new ideas keepin it fresh ❄️
@@whoizray_ 🙏🏼
BONUS ROUND! Put the protegies in the Hunter exams and let's say the sound 4 ninja are there as obstacles for them during the tasks
A 12 year old beign Kage level for me is still wild.
Totally agree. It’s wild the heights Kakashi and Itachi reached at such a young age
@@sageofthickcalves i was eating buggers at that age lmao (and ppl said i was a smart kid)
It'd be really cool to see another minato one off going over more of his life
Not beating the kakashi over itachi allegations is hilarious
💀
Fym Kakashi over Itachi allegations? Kakashi shits on Itachi lmfao
@@somersaultinggiraffe1901 I know but it’s a joke from the end of the video
Wait, what Virhtue said got me thinking: if "Aye" is the nickname of the strongest in the village, and "Bee" is the second strongest, would logic not follow that anyone with the nickname "C" would be the third strongest? Would that mean C is above Darui and would've been above Yugito?
By the way, great video, Sage! Super interesting topic!
Thank you so much! That would track, but the problem is that Darui is just verifiably above C, and even becomes the next Raikage over him
@sageofthickcalves Do you think it's possible C started stronger and then post war Darui surpassed Aye, Bee, and C? Cus it also somewhat follows since his name starts with a D lmao
I'm not saying it's definite, but it just seems logical to me that if Aye and Bee are given to the strongest that C and D (if it's even a title) would then be the third and fourth strongest.
Also would just mean (assuming this is the case) anyone without that nickname (like Yugito) wouldn't be the strongest in the Hidden Cloud.
But again idt it's like definitive, I'm just saying it seems that would follow, but it could also just stop at the title of Bee
@@CH1C4N0444 idk I just think Darui objectively has better showings in the series too
@@sageofthickcalves That's fair
I feel like if Naruto took his training a bit more seriously right off the bat, he could be seen as a prodigy, afterall, all the talent in the world would still mean nothing if you do not put in the effort and hard work and that applies to anything in life. Naruto in his early childhood was too busy being a troublemaker and while I sympathise with his circumstances, he definitely wasted that time unlike Sasuke who admittedly had his genius older brother and whole clan for guidance up until the massacre. I mean you can't just be someone with a massive chakra pool and a hokage for a dad, a man who was once the leader of your village and not be someone with immense potential.
Itachi smoking that 6pack
blitz neji bro there was 4 of them that went down to stop him he was kind of OP as a kid then he just fell off 😢
@@ikegarries4755 my guy, Hayate had to outspeed Neji there in order to cover more ground and get in front of him. That’s a blitz. Also, just because all of them reacted at the same time doesn’t mean all of them were necessary. Neji is stated to be Chunin level in both the manga and databooks, and the gap between Chunin level and jonin level is enormous. He gets body bagged by any of those jonin.
I will say, Kishimoto did him dirty after the Sasuke retrieval arc. He should’ve been way stronger
Agreed. Plus I think it was a little disingenious to leave out the fact Neji was fighting and focused on Hinata not the proctors/nearby Jonin. They even said he was blood lusted. Imagine if he pulled out a rotation in that very moment lol. Assuming he was suddenly fighting the 4 of them. Then using Kakashi as a jonin at the age but was that relative to the rest of the laf at the time? Team Neji lol
@@xcbaby123 A lot of issues here.
1: Neji blatantly gets outsped by Hayate, and isn’t able to react to it until he’s grabbed, despite having his byakugan active. He then scales to Kidomaru, who’s below fatigued special jonin Raido. These two things paint a clear picture that Neji is below that special jonin tier, which is reflected by the numerous statements outright calling him “Chunin level”.
2: 10 year old Kakashi takes down a stone jonin who’s called an “extremely powerful” jonin. This verifiably puts him in that jonin tier, and then he gets 2 more years of training AND an additional tomoe on his sharingan, amping his perception speed.
So we have a guy in Neji who’s verifiably below the special jonin tier, and more so on the Chunin tier, and a guy in Kakashi who’s verifiably in the higher end of jonin tier. This isn’t a discussion I’m ngl.
@@sageofthickcalves in what way is Kidomaru relative to Neji?
My interpretation of the fight is kidomaru didn’t want the smoke hid found an exploit due to a location advantage
@@HC-gm4fo he’s fatigued and still able to react to Neji’s attacks, even activating the thick orange secretion from his skin in time to counter the gentle fist
Could it be that the reason why Minato is perceived as the most prodigious of the bunch is due to his relationship with Kushina. She probably helped him understand and decode sealing jutsu, which led to him learning a renonound jutsu(flying thunder god)and expanding on it at such an early age. I mean, despite how powerful Rasengan is, Minato and Jiraya never used it enough in battle to build a reputation around it like Kakashi did with the Raikiri. And since Rasengan wasn't all that known at the time anyway, even if Kakashi successfully added a change in chakra nature after learning it, he wouldn’t get the props for it.
@@theprofessor2817 she definitely helped
My money is always minato because he's better
Definitely do a female prodigys chunin exams tournament next.
So basically
Temari
Ino
Maybe Tsunade
Not many females prodegies
Ino and temari at best is regarded as exceptional kunoichi more than prodegies but I mean they are impressive
@@kevaughrichardson2595 How is Ino a prodigy? If she is, Sakura is. And you say maybe Tsunade, but Ino definitely is? What? Who regards Ino as an exceptional Kunoichi?
@@pkj2148 idk maybe because she was the 2nd strongest in the academy having the 2nd best grades
Sakura won against her because of Naruto and I wasn't talking about her strength more on her skill
Taijutsu wise lee acknowledge her skills
She has great chakra control
And while as a genin can perform c rank jutsu which is chunin level jutsu
And was regarded as an e
Yea ik not the best
Exceptional kunoichi by asuma being the best rookie kunoichi
Not the best but this is about female prodegies which none of them is stated to be so I named the kunoichi that were regarded as being skilled kunoichi and if we suppose to get into novel stuff you will understand why I put her as prodigy
Girly is the first member of the yamanaka clan to let her mind transfer basically guaranteed to hit because it tracks because she combine it with her sensory powers
Taijutsu she fought multiple anbu with tail beast cloak
Each anbu are like jonin tier
Chakra nature she has 4 manga wise
But in anime she use fire so
4/5 chakra natures take it anyway you want but it is still impressive
other than team 7 in konoha 11 she has the highest chakra natures and she tie with Sakura fyi when it comes to chakra natures
Ino master medical ninjutsu
She also developed her own poison
Her mind transmission jutsu far exceed her father who is a elite jonin btw
She sent a telepathic message to the entire world without fatigue
Inoichi was dying send a message to only the alliance Shinobi forces
Oop so yea she is very much in a league of her own and is quite skilled
Considering basically everything she actually does she either master it or is one of the strongest
Medical ninjutsu is not something she specializes in yet she master it
Yamanaka techniques
She master it and strongest in her clan
Sensory powers she is head of sensory so other than sage mode naruto she is the best sensory ninja in the village
So yea she is strong and I would put her at least low kage
Like let's say she was to fight chojuro
The minute she use mind transfer it is guaranteed to hit so the only way of him getting out is to have stronger will than ino which ino will was powerful enough to subdue the ten tails for like 3 seconds which is impressive given the tails power
😑
@@smolpretty4497 the video would be good
Fantastic video and topic, cant remember the last time i had this much fun with Naruto content haha! Keep up the good work guys!
Thank you! Glad to hear
Im mad people like haku and kimimaro were at least mentioned, but not having Lee is criminal
Lee gets beat up by everyone on this list
This convo of Obito acknowledging Itachi as a opponent doesn't mean that they are relative, it just means that it wouldn't be no diff for that Obito. Do you really think that night of the massacre Itachi is KCM+ level? He needed Obito's help to be sure that he can do this mission, Sasuke even points that out during their fight in shippuden, knowing his brothers level and stating that he wouldn't be able to take on all of the police by himself. It's highly likely that Obito can even unironically put this Itachi in genjutsu
@@reikolight it also takes place after he awakens MS, so we can’t draw conclusions from that for the version we’re using. Realized that after so I pinned a comment addressing it. Our b
Itachi broke out of Obito’s Genjutsu before awakening the Sharingan. The same mission his childhood teammate was killed. So Obito’s Genjutsu isn’t doing anything to someone who could see through any Justu.
@@rkvlegacy9206 to be fair, Obito implies it’s one of his weaker genjutsu, and it likely wasn’t even sharingan genjutsu, since he out and entire unit of people under it simultaneously. Some of those people were ANBU members, so the genjutsu was definitely a strong one, but his Sharingan genjutsu would inherently be above that.
@@sageofthickcalves Sharingan jutsu affects any target that looks into the Sharingans eyes. This genjutsu was able to inflict all the Jonin, Anbu and even the feudal lord but Itachi was the only one to break it and instinctively at that. Obito’s age jutsu isn’t doing anything to Itachi who trained with the strongest genjutsu user in the clan.
@@rkvlegacy9206 Brother look at what you just said. All of the people there were affected by the genjutsu, but Itachi and Tenma (Kakashi as well) were able to BREAK IT. They never looked into Obito’s eyes. This wasn’t a sharingan genjutsu. It was some other type of ranged genjutsu. So you can’t use this to say that Itachi can resist Obito’s sharingan genjutsu, when sharingan genjutsu is just stated to be above normal genjutsu.
I mean it makes sense Minato doesn't really have any feats at 12 other than saving Kushina from 3 cloud ninja and there probably just chunin... BUT and it's a big but if even one of them were jonin then Minato possibly wiped a jonin and two chunin no diff and spit some game which will shoot up his scaling like crazy.
I agree 100%. Even if it’s a low jonin, that gets Minato firmly into that jonin tier. That would put him in the conversation with Kakashi and Itachi here for sure.
@@sageofthickcalves But it's still difficult for him to compete with kakshi and Itachi due to lacking any jutsu versatility we don't even know if he has ftg and he definitely doesn't have the rasengan and that's funny because the guy who made the rasengan can't use it here but some other dude can 💀
@@yuushiotempest3660I believe he had ftg pretty young. Based on him needing time to master it completely. Minato was already fast , so that's why he sought ftg so he ha definitely had to have been learning it before he reached double digits
I don’t think that without Sharingan, Kakashi would be able to bypass Shisui or Itachi’s genjutsu. Ocular genjutsu is just different. If you’re caught, you’re done unless you have a partner to break you out.
Yeah Kakashi has the sharingan here
@@sageofthickcalves Kakashi isn't good at it here tho, while the two uchihas have already mastered it.
@@TsuChan_ Kakashi has a 3 tomoe sharingan and has had the sharingan for 2 years at this point. I’d argue he’s at least on the same tier in terms of base sharingan proficiency
@@sageofthickcalves I think he never reached itachi and shisui's level of mastery and we saw that even part1 kakashi had still things to learn.
@@TsuChan_ part 1 Kakashi was rusty
I'd argue rock Lee was a prodigy. Of hard work! Lmao
@@TheturtlesageWill w take
I’d also say Naruto was a prodigy just a late blooming one which I think exist in the real world too. Like he struggled with the fundamentals but once he got them down, everything else came to him very easily compared to many others and he progressed at the rate of a prodigy
Orochimaru was also a prodigy.
@@rizzo8879 yeah but can you tell me how strong he was or what he had in his arsenal at 12?
@@sageofthickcalveshey man I just wanted to say I love you videos also
video idea: what if boruto squad replaced team 7 in the Chunin exams?
Gaara vs sasuke seems like a plot armour response imo, I thought the main reason gaara even got hit by the chidori was mainly because of the Konoha Crush, he was essentially a sitting duck while he tried to bring out shukku easist chidori of sasukes life, and you easily argue sasuke could of slipped up and got sand coffind but to act as if it's that clear cut and sasuke takes the win because he can hit gaara with his body, it was clearly explained within those episodes that lee being an even more accomplished taijutsu user wasn't even enough to take out gaara with taijutsu, that being said Sasuke chidori isn't by any means hard to see coming so had gaara seen it coming and wasn't siting duck I honestly find it hard to believe gaara loses
Gaara was getting juggled prior to that. He was forced to go into the dome to protect himself. The other Sand shinobi straight up say that Gaara won’t be able to see the signal for Konoha Crush and that he’s throwing the plan.
????he was blitzing him
Honestly, Gaara vs Sasuke is not that close. I can see Gaara winning in the long term and I think we could consider a partial transformation/chinchuriki chakra like Naruto had on.
@@manudem the difference between a partial transformation for Gaara or Bee and a bit of kyuubi chakra is that Naruto is able to control that amount of kyuubi chakra, while Gaara literally goes insane, and we don’t know what level of control Bee has
Minato supremacy
@@vanderbiltalexsingleton2041 w
One thing you all have forgotten is that even when a bijuu is not cooperative, if it's a do or die situation, they will assist their host.
So saying that Itachi wins by genjutsu which isn't tsukuyomi at this point, is laughable.
Bee should've gone forward here.
@@chadbushell it’s not a life or death, do or die situation. It’s the Chunin exams.
@@sageofthickcalves the chunin exams literally has a stage called the forest of DEATH. The vs battles also had no rules against killing.
So if Itachi is like genjutsu gg's. Gyuki is going break him out just out of pride. You literally see Naruto do this with Kurama during his fight against Neji. He told the 9 tails to pay him rent for using his body so Bee, would do the same thing.
Honestly man i hate how dirty neji got done. I think his ability to block out chakra points gets him thru one round. And that man has the byakugan the way naruto “outsmarted” him should not of had worked
Fax
@@manerfgf9703 he just got a bad roll with Kakashi tbh. Kakashi is just too fast and talented, plus has a 3 tomoe sharingan
@@sageofthickcalvesthat make no sense kakashi is definitely not beating neji
@@adrianbrown8899 Kakashi killed an elite Iwa jonin on panel. The gap between Chunin and Jonin level is huge, as stated in the databooks. Neji has no Jonin level scaling.
For Minato vs Shisui you got to realize he rescued Justina on his own. The people that kidnapped her had to have been near jonin level or at least jonin level. Villages wouldn’t send chunin level people to kidnap a Jinchuriki they would most likely send their best. But also Shisui was fighting the anbu with itachi. Those anbu were probably around jonin level as well haha this one was a toss up for sure
Put together a team of prodigies from the lead consisting of Minato, Itachi, Kakashi, Orochimaru, and Shisui. Hard to see them losing in any situation that you drop them in.
@@Dillon-ml8if bet
@@sageofthickcalves you can really make a vid like that?👀 like a versus, from kid to adult how they would’ve done in the Sasuke retrieval, Gaara rescue, sound 5, pain arc, etc
@@Dillon-ml8if yeah prodigies only Sasuke Retrieval would be cool
@@sageofthickcalves say less, real nigga
Gonna be a banger!
Always a good day when Sage uploads 🔥
Kimimaro at 15 was stated to be Kage lvl and could fight KCM1 Naruto without illness. The only one who could be stronger is post massacre Itachi.
Edit: any genin in new generations can fight Kage and Otsutsuki lvl characters, so I didn't even bother to mention them.
This only apply to new gen team 7 tbh most other characters feats are kinda inconsistent or not really applicable
Yeah I would've put kimimaro in this instead of Bee, but he is kinda featless at the age of 12. Like you said his scaling is from 15+
@@Rdc_Dom As a kid, he could be stronger than Orochimaru since he was able to restrain Jugo, but I'm not sure if it was because of his strenght or his personality. He should still be at least Jounin lvl, he was the only survivor of his clan and was confident on defeating Zabuza in the anime.
@user-jb2ev1mu8k zabuza is not your average jonin also him being compared to one is straight up disingenuous.
Lol ya'll forgot the prodigies of all prodigies.. Nagato was considered top teir as a child without using the main Justus we saw in the pain bodies
@@paulmarshall6576 yeah we just don’t know enough about him at 12
Honestly a little disappointed that Boruto wasn't included. Not sure how comparable the scalings are though. Thanks for sharing!
@@marclehman3889 thanks bro! Yeah we just did OG Naruto
Boruto gets one shot by bee
Yall make the best naruto videos
Thank you!
Crazy that Minato is the least feated at this age, but he’s probably go #1 in a draft format.
Amazing video I wish kakashi was stronger tbh like it would’ve been so cool to see him master obitos mangekyou with more chakra like they nerfed him so hard with that should have gave him like hashirama cells or something
Thank you! Yeah he would’ve been cracked with Hashirama cells
4:57 Naruto's generation is a lot more peaceful than the ones before. They aren't at war anymore, and to some extent, they are trying to keep children innocent as much as possible. Kids like Sasuke and Neji could probably become chunnin early if they were nurtured to that. Sasuke for example, learned the fireball jutsu very early, and based on that, he probably could be at least a genin if he received the right training.
The thing is, this pratice wasn't really being done on this generation, even the most talented children were kept at the academy to become genin at the same age as the others, instead of making them lose their childhood and become a killing machine early like Kakashi, Itachi or Minato.
What were we robbed off. Sharingan sasuke vs neji byakuga in chunin arc
“She was knocked out for that fight”😂😂😂
3 tomoe Adult Kakashi said that 4th gate Rock Lee was "fast!!", the same Lee that it was implied that Neji can mentally react too. Kakashi as a kid didn't have 3 tomoe. Neji isn't getting blitz.
Adult Kakashi also said "what a fighter!" when talking about Neji's taijutsu prowess. If his taijutsu prowess was greater as kid, he wouldn't act like Neji was all that for his fight with Hinata.
@@DroppedMyController
1: Kakashi is likely comparing Lee to the other genin.
2: We see Kakashi’s eye evolve from the 2 tomoe to the 3 tomoe en route to the MS in real time on page 4 of chapter 605 (you can see it’s a 2 tomoe in chapter 604)
Link- www.mangapill.com/chapters/3070-10605000/naruto-digital-colored-comics-chapter-605
So kid Kakashi does get a 3 tomoe before joining the ANBU at 12 years old.
3: Kakashi at 10 blitzed a high jonin level character. Neji at 13 got blitzed by a special jonin. There’s a massive gap there.
4: Again, Kakashi is likely comparing Neji to the other genin. We actually see him make a comparison between Neji and Sasuke mentally right after the Hinata fight. So, when he says, “What a fighter!” he’s not comparing himself to his child counterpart. Another good example of this is when he says bell test Sasuke shouldn’t be able to pull off the fire ball jutsu, since he’s just a kid, despite the fact that Kakashi himself could use the Chidori AND rasengan at a younger age. So Kakashi clearly doesn’t compare these kids to himself, since he was talented enough to become a Chunin at 6.
@@sageofthickcalves 1. Kakashi was likely comparing him to himself, because he lifted headband to use 3 tomoe to track Lee's movements. That wouldn't be necessary if Lee wasn't fast for Kakashi.
3. Neji wasn't blitz by the special Jonin. Neji was mad with rage at Hinata, he wasn't paying any attention to the special jonin.
4. Kakashi was comparing Neji to himself. When he said "what a fighter!" He said something like "even with my sharingan I can't see the tenketsu and regardless of having the Byakugan to be able to do that in battle." Kakashi also had sweat drops when thinking about Neji's prowess.
@@DroppedMyController 1: He did NOT lift the headband to track Lee’s movements. He lifted his headband to see the chakra gates. He literally does this right before explaining the gates, as we see a diagram of them lmao.
2: The databooks confirm Neji had resolved to kill Hinata there. He was 100% blitzed by Hayate, a special jonin.
3: Those two statements happen apart from one another. In one, he’s responding to how masterful Neji is at the gentle fist, and the other he’s explaining the gentle fist and how the byakugan works. He then compares him to Sasuke.
4: Again, Neji is verifiably below special jonin, while Kakashi is verifiably above high jonin. More scaling to verify that for Neji is that Kidomaru in CM2 is below fatigued Genma or Raido (it’s unclear which one he faced). We know this because Genma and Raido, right after a mission, right after stating “I’m so exhausted,” face off against the CM2 Sound 4 and push them to their limits, forcing them to retreat without being able to kill them. This puts heavily fatigued Genma & Raido (both special jonin) ≈ the CM2 Sound 4 as a unit. So, fresh Genma & Raido would be > the CM2 Sound 4 as a unit, which inherently means either of them would be > Kidomaru. Since Neji is ≈ Kidomaru, he’s verifiably below Genma and/or Raido, even when they’re massively fatigued.
1. In talking about Kakashi lifting the headband in preparation for Lee's Gated movements. Not his base movements.
2. I know Neji was 100% trying to kill Hinata, that's my point. He was mad with rage at Hinata, he wasn't paying any attention to the special Jonin at all. That's why it wasn't a blitz.
3. They aren't separate. Kakashi said that "what a fighter!" in response to learning that Neji had pressed several tenketsu. When Kakashi says that even his sharingan can't see the tenketsu and implies seeing the tenketsu so accurately in battle he's elaborating on what makes Neji such an impressive fighter.
4. In the data book chunin exam Neji has higher stats in taijutsu and speed then Kabuto. And when it comes to the sound 4 Kidoumaru stated he thinks he was the only one of the sound 4 that could handle him.
@@DroppedMyController 1: Prove it’s to track his movements, not to see the chakra in the gates. What you’re claiming is never stated or implied
2: Neji got blitzed because Hayate covers more ground than he does in a shorter amount of time. That’s how that works. The distance Hayate and the other jonin covered there is FAR greater than the distance Neji covered, and they did it in a significantly shorter time frame. Therefore, Neji cannot move as far as Hayate can in the same amount of time, making him significantly slower. He got physically blitzed by a special jonin.
www.mangapill.com/chapters/3070-10080000/naruto-digital-colored-comics-chapter-80
3: Brother, those statements happen on different pages 💀 He says “what a fighter” right after Hinata’s arm is revealed to have been tagged by the gentle fist. Then, after Naruto asks, “What’s he saying?” Kakashi goes into the tenketsu points and at the end of that he explains that not even the sharingan can see them. These are two separate lines of thought that take place on two separate pages. One is Kakashi thinking to himself, the other is him responding to Naruto’s question. To link those is about as disingenuous as possible:
4: The databook stats are not to be used to compare one fighter to the next. They’re literally called progress charts, and they’re described as being charts to track an individual’s progress. Neji also has a greater speed stat than Hiruzen in databook 1, despite Hiruzen being relative to Orochimaru, who’s above all of the S4 and Kabuto. Most people don’t understand what the progress charts are for, so I don’t hold it against you, but those can’t be used for anything other than tracking an individual’s progress. Again, though, the fact that Neji is relative to Kidomaru, whose below fatigued Raido, a special jonin, inherently puts him below jonin level.
I like these takes, sharingan is way too stacked early into the show. Though I feel like the other non-uchiha prodigy’s would be wary of sharingan’s abilites. Bee could possibly break genjustu through 8-tails and I find it hard to believe minato would fall under genjustu easily.
@@Brodar368 I agree, except Bee isn’t a perfect jinchuriki as a kid, so he doesn’t have that genjutsu resistance
this is a fantastic video concept
Thank you!
you should do a video on the strongest person at every age
@@dannyvillamizar4192 I like this
I think kakashi takes itachi at 12, as you guys said 13 itachy wins easy but at 12 the fight is decided by experience which kakashi has more of right?
Agreed. And Kakashi has better feats tbh
I’m on match up one and I just want to say Naruto is so fast that he completely disappeared from Neji‘s line of sight for a moment . Something that took multiple gates in the earlier exam to do. If Kakashi is slightly above guy during their time then honestly a gifted Hyuga may be Kakashi’s match. Because he knows what the leaf is capable of and he was still surprised by Young Neji. If he doesn’t have chidori, he’s not getting to Neji period.
@@cunningfox7838 Neji gets blitzed by a special jonin. Kakashi blitzes someone who’s high jonin. He’s way faster
@@sageofthickcalves did he get blitzed? She’s the heir of the most royal house, and they let him get in range of her. The sound 4 are high chunnin with Jonin abilities. And without the cover of TheForest Neji was taking down his opponent off of blitz alone, and killed that ninja with a blitz. Meaning that without that specific battlefield, Neji would’ve taken down a high chunnin ninja like it was nothing.
About Shisui. Only one of his eyes has a 10 year cool down. The other is like a 1 day cool down so I could see him using it on Minato to force him to surrender the match
That’s never stated or shown
Surprised that you didn't include orochimaru too
@@yarriahgraves4334 yeah we just don’t know anything about him when he was 12
Shouldve put BORUTO and mitsuki in this one
Yeah I was going Naruto only, but Boruto and Mitsuki don’t have good showings at 12 without their power ups they wouldn’t be allowed to use
Im surprised i never even thought of who is like my top 5 or top 10 favorite prodigies. I know i really fw kimimaro, Mangetsu, Itachi & Haku
I think top 5 for me would be something like this:
1: Kakashi
2: Itachi
3: Minato
4: Shisui
5: Hiruzen
@@sageofthickcalves Very versatile list I fw it. I forgot to put my dude Minato in my list so my top 5 in order would be
1. Itachi
2. Mangetsu
3. Minato
4. Kimimaro
5. Haku
@@Vanessa-zh7rc w
Tip: You should just keep it within the exam itself. Who cares if its unlikely for someone to use sn ability that has a 10 year CD. If it were me if it was to win im using the ability.
@@2mellow35 it’s not in character for Shisui to use Koto unless he’s about to die
I think kakashi beats or at the very LEAST goes even with Sasuke just cause his taijutsu was better. No, i havent watched the video yet, i sorry. I just wanted to point out how Kakashi could already generate Chidori (and spam it) at that age while Sasuke had to do a special sharingan based taijutsu training to reach that level of physical capability + Sasuke could only generate 2 Chidori, unless you count the 3rd one with the curse mark, which leaves him paralyzed afterward. Honestly, Kakashi's experience at that age really just trumps people from the generation directly after. Both taijutsu and general combat. Not everyone has the privilege to spar with elite ninja (not limited to the 3rd hokage) for training exercises. And no, this isn't glaze or hate. I just randomly thought of this and spilled my words on the keyboard.
GOAT doing GOAT things
Kakashi is my favorite for this challenge tbh. If not Kakashi then Itachi. It's impressive that Itachi survived the same war as Kakashi at a younger age, but Kakashi completed much harder assignments
Itachi blitzed and killed his first shinobi at 4 guy was born different
@t2nexx561 Still loses to Sasuke in the age 17 match up tho
@@takatotakasui8307 obviously
@t2nexx561 The video's point is that Itachi being stronger than 4 year old Kakashi at the same age doesn't mean he's stronger than 12 year old Kakashi at the same age
@@takatotakasui8307 lol I know what are rambling for
Yeah Kid Kakashi is just too cracked it’s like bro shoulda been the MC😂
@@reallyhimongod 100% 💀
This was a good video overall. I also think I mostly agree. I don't know if y'all do One piece, but there's some interesting discussions to be had with both series.
@@yuan713 I don’t scale OP because I’m not caught up, but I plan on doing it down the line 🙏🏼
"Kakashi is 10 and has the sharingan" sent me on a short googling spree to find info refute such nonsense for myself, but yeah Kakashi's ages are just a huge mess...
@@notthis9586 yeah the only way it works, without literally throwing out the entire of the databooks and novels, is to have him be 3-4 years younger than Obito. His age isn’t the issue. It’s the ages of the other konoha jonin that creates a problem. He was a Chunin at 6 in manga, databook, and novel canon, while the others only have databook statements, so his age should be the one we build around.
I appreciate virtues honesty 😂
It’s a damn shame Naruto wasn’t a Prodigy (Even though we sauced up Gaara and Neji @12 years old).
@@Flameapollo12 he only did that with the help of Kurama’s chakra
@@sageofthickcalvesnot his only feat
@@fr33lil every other crazy feat he has prior to turning 13 is with the help of Kurama’s chakra
I love virtue. That's my bro.
Same
Can you make a video of strongest Chunin displays? We spend so much time with Genin and Jonin I find it hard to discern what a "peak Chunin" is.
@@julianperez9000 I may make a video establishing the ranges based on showings
In the battle of goats and bee and Neji Itachi was truly the goated onw
Intercepting Nejis attack doesn't necessarily mean they were faster considering where they were standing. Plus Neji was singlemindedly running towards Hinata. So I think it was more of he was off guard in terms of not expecting to be stopped. Lees speed without weights was able to tag Gaara, a character who the sand village was surprised could be touched (Baki included), the same dude who Hayate couldn't escape from.
@@yuan713 Neji is stated to have been resolved to kill Hinata. That means he was definitely going all out. Hayate covers a greater distance in a shorter time. He verifiably outsped him there.
@@sageofthickcalvesWhere you do scale Baki? Baki blitzed Hayate, and was in awe of someone tagging Gaara. Wouldn't that mean Baki isn't capable of beating Gaara at least via speed.
@@yuan713 Baki was relative to Hayate. The thing with Baki is we don’t know if he’s ever tried to face Gaara, so he’s in awe because of what he’s heard or from seeing Gaara in his transformed state. Baki should be low to mid jonin level
Minato losing in the first round is just crazy to me
@@Hoodiescars- yeah he just doesn’t have enough showings at that age
1. kotoamatsukami isn't a 10 year cooldown for shisui, it's a 10 year cooldown for the crow (which basically had no chakra). This is also why danzo's cooldown was less than a day
2. if we're doing it by age, we can use the gaara that fought kimimaro, and that gaara > sasuke. Sand tsunami + giant sand burial is too much for sasuke.
3. during the war, shinobi were promoted to jonin with a much lower bar, this is due to the shinobi shortage (confirmed)
@@its_hokori 1: That’s not true. Itachi says Shisui’s mongekyo has a 10 year cooldown, unless someone is using Hashirama calls THAT is why Danzo’s cooldown was significantly shorter. Page 12: www.mangapill.com/chapters/3070-10550000/naruto-digital-colored-comics-chapter-550
2: Yeah you can argue that Gaara is around 12, but you could also argue he hadn’t just turned 12.
3: It’s never stated that shinobi were promoted to jonin faster because of wartime. It’s confirmed they were pushed through the academy faster. This is stated for both Kakashi and Itachi in the Itachi midnight novel.
The whole ranking is innately biased by limiting shisui because it’s the “chunin exams” it’s unfair. Everyone else can use their whole moveset but he’s limited
@@icynoah__133 Sasuke can’t use his whole move set. He’s not allowed to use the curse mark. Gaara isn’t allowed to go partial transformation, neither is Bee. We took MS away from Itachi, despite the fact that he is 12 when he gets Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi.
Body flicker an FTG are so different
True. The words used for them are mixed up several times, though
Minato didn’t just save Kushina… bro legit no diffed 3 Jonin level ninja 😐. Without being noticed, which is insane.
@@xzjayz7925 we have no idea what rank they were tbh. Could’ve been Chunin level, specializing in infiltration and sealing
Tbh, don't really understand why did you decide to include Gaara. The only reason why Gaara is so strong is because he is a Jinchuriki and he has this unique ability of sand manipulation which he had gotten from his mom.
It would be great if you include Haku instead of Gaara in a match-up with Sasuke, would love to hear a speculation on rematch of Sasuke and Haku.
@@user-fy3ot5ul5d Gaara is clearly a prodigy, as evidenced by what he does after he loses Shukaku, but I see what you mean. The problem with Haku is that we don’t know how strong he was at 12.
Gaara was stated to be prodigious from Kakashi and Anko
He beat minato or Kakashi score for the forest of death
@@DequanFloyd well, yes, I remember that he beat the score in the forest of death but, once again, the reason why he managed to do that is because he can control sand (i mean to fly using it) and that is the ability he got from his mom, he didn't work hard to get it. For me, personally, it looks more like an abuse of the Chunin exams rules which were written without an idea that some people would have a fly ability.
I mean, if we compare Gaara with Itachi, Itachi has been showing that he really is a prodigy numerous times. He was very mature for his age and his Battle IQ was on another level in comparison with other chunins or genins. He also had incredible analytical (fight with Kabuto), psychological (fight with Naruto/Kabuto) and strategical (fight with Sasuke) achievements.
Overall, well yes, if Kakashi and Anko stated that Gaara is a prodigy then yes, he really is a prodigy in Naruto, but I just don't agree with their opinion.
@@sageofthickcalves okay, I got your point👌. Despite of that, a very enjoyable video, liked it very much.
@@user-fy3ot5ul5d I can tell that you don’t agree with their statements
I feel Minato if we had more feats of him would probably easily win by feats are not there and the one shot novel also helps him put him way above even akatsuki level
@@397llederson6 yeah it’s just like how strong was he before learning FTG and the rasengan?
@@sageofthickcalves ITs weird I feel Kakashi wasn't meant to be as legendary as say a Sanin in terms of prodigies or beyond his father
No Haku is crazy. But I got Kakashi for this
@@AshesOTFRBased yeah Haku would’ve been good if we knew anything about him as a 12 year old
@@sageofthickcalves We don't know anything about 12 year old Bee either, I'd just have replaced him with Rock Lee at that point I guess? Idr if he was specifically called A prodigy when he used the Gates on Gaara though
@@AshesOTFRBased yeah but kid Bee has enough feats and lore implications to get a good idea of where he should be. He also just got a bad first round matchup tbh
Solid takes for all characters. However in Itachi’s case against Kakashi, I think y’all forgot to mention Itachi and Shisui’s fight against those anbu shinobi. I’m pretty sure Itachi was 8 at that time, and he fully outsmarted/outperformed someone from the Anbu.
@@JD-mf6oo you talking about the scene from the anime? That’s not canon.
This came into my recommended way late.
@@yandereneko5523 glad you’re here 🫡
Aint no way we left out zabuza
We have no clue how strong he was at 12 or what he had in his bag
Shisui is clearing all these Ninjas tbh
the highlight of my week
🥲
I think 12 yo Shisui pulls off the upset vs Minato AND Kakashi. Shisui peaks early in his genius just like Kakashi. Then like a lot of characters he never sees his full potential. 3 things are important:
>Shisui vs Anbu in anime, Bodyflicker/MS
>Minato’s FTG probably being useless in combat at age 12 and more like Raido’s FTG
>Kakashi’s fights vs the Stone Jonin aren’t convincing enough to me. He’s a Jonin but he was saved by Minato and Obito. Shisui on the other hand was more near Anbu if you count the anime arc which I believe is canon.