The US Finally Made A Better Corvette But Was It Enough? Corvette C5
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- čas přidán 6. 06. 2024
- The Corvette C5 Was America's attempt to finally make a car that would be competitive against the European sport car makers. Today I find out if they did enough to make this sports car works on the UK's roads..
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The 'Vette has generally been the best bang-for-the-buck, especially when one considers reliability, parts availability, inexpensive servicing and potential to modify for high performance and handling. Yep, the interior is pretty cheapo but the nice interiors in European sports cars are often best enjoyed, whilst waiting for the tow truck. 😉
if it would be cheap in europe it might've worked...but it aint.
@@TheChill001 , No sure the americans care alot about Europe, since the absolute biggest market for sportscars are in the US. The majorty of all euopean and japanese manufactured sports cars have be sold new in the US.
@@westmus I think his point was that it wasn't good value in Europe so it didn't sell well here, not whether or not the USA cares about the European market.
Porsche 911 has topped reliability lists in Germany for decades though.
The internet loves to call Corvettes reliable, but the reality is owners are chronically dealing with quality issues related to poor design. For example, this C5 had an ABS system that once it fails, cannot be repaired. Plus, they squeak, rattle, buzz because the interior components were sourced as cheap as possible. But the price performance ratio is better than euro sportscaster which are just massively overpriced because of branding.
As an American who has owned a few Corvettes, I can tell you you’re spot on on your summary of the Corvette. Most of us die-heart Corvette fans acknowledge the less than stellar Corvette interiors. We just accept that as part of the car. GM saves some money on the interior, so we get an excellent sports car for a price a little less than if it had a world class interior.
If you ever have the chance to drive other Corvettes, try your best to get your hands on a ZO6. They are generally more powerful, lighter, and better handling than the base or Z51 variants.
Now that Jack has driven a C5, I would be very interested in his takes on the C6, C7, and C8, especially if he can do it by the end of the year.
I like cheap interiors, Its nostalgic..
Also, the handling on the car can be vastly improved with camber, castor, and toe alignment changes to the standard factory Z51 suspension. With the factory alignment, the car drives like the family sedan. With the changes, the turn in is much better, and there is not a problem with tire wear.
The buttons on the Corvette don't become gooey sticky messes like the ones on Ferraris do so there's that....
@@briandeaton3550 factory alignment was to address the fact that most cars are driven on straight US freeways. These are perfect used cars because few original owners drove the hard.
But please stop the myth that they are reliable. I had a C5 and C6 and both cars were chronically plagued with annoying problems from cheap accessory parts, and some major problems from a stupid press fit crank harmonic balancer.
I was once a passenger in a C5. It wowed me, and massively surprised me. The engine, in particular, was gobsmackingly good. Some engines are effortless, for eg, 3 litre common rail diesels. Some engines are relentless, for eg, GT3, E46 M3. ONLY this engine does both. It's genuinely the only engine I've ever witnessed do both effortlessness and relentlessness, at the same time. It's a unique sensation, and it's the most impressive engine I've ever seen, and that's coming from an owner of a Porsche flat six. Big respect to the yanks.
But it's the easiest thing in the world to get big power and torque from a 6ltr engine. That was the only reason US cars had performance is just through lazy, cheap engineering. An engine that size with the usual modern addition of overhead cams, 4 valves per cylinder, quad cam etc made in Japan, Europe pretty much anywhere in the world would rev better, be more fuel efficient and more powerful and torquey. In reality it would most likely have at least another 100bhp, maybe even 200bhp over this prehistoric pig iron.
Most US cars are DECADES behind on engines, suspension etc.
There's no replacement for displacement.....
@@SimonWallwork there are SO MANY examples of cars that show just how BS that is in the modern world. There are 2.0ltr 4 cylinder cars with way more power and torque than this Vette, Merc AMG A45S, Imprezas, Evos etc. They also have chassis that would run rings around US cars.
My dream engine is a 5 valve, dohc, di, 2.0L, twin turbo, with VVT. I don't care if it needs timing chains every 30k mi, and revs to 9k to make 450hp with peak tq at 280 lbft. I don't care that when I open the hood I can't even see the engine, let alone work on it! I don't care that it's so overly complicated a tune up costs $2500. It's European, so it's automatically better!... At least, that's what all the cool people on YT say, right?
It's worth mentioning that those leaf springs weigh only about 2 kilos each, and are transversely mounted so there are only two of them - one front, one rear. Based on your comments, I'd say this car has never had its suspension bushings replaced. That would make a world of difference to its responses, sharpness, and precision, just as it did in your own Ferrari 308.
From the radically updated 1984 C4 (predecessor to this C5 test car) onward, each generation of Corvette has been an excellent, world class sports/GT car with a lackluster (yet improving with each generation) interior. But at least the interiors don't fall apart (mostly), and everything continues to work for decades. Cargo capacity, ergonomics, and general comfort (even for large men), are always above average.
I don't know if owning a Corvette outside of North America can be done on truly low budget. But here in the states, they certainly can be. Corvettes are near-supercars, in terms of appearance, performance, handling, and braking, for _Miata money,_ here.
Hi Michael - This is my car, you could well be correct re the bushes. Even still the car handles pretty good as it is. I am tempted to refresh the bushes at some point... Here in the UK I would say it punches well above it's weight in terms of overall ability/usability/ride comfort/economy etc. And with Rockauto just 2 days away with their speedy shipping, parts are easy and quick to get hold of. :)
@@Auto_Funk
Interesting, thanks for the info.
The Australian suspension company, _SuperPro,_ makes C4 Corvette bushings that mimic the performance and characteristics of the original ones, while using modern chemistry and offering a lifetime warranty. I believe those were developed in partnership with _C&S Corvettes,_ in Sarasota, Florida, USA. Maybe C5 units are also available. C&S Corvettes does have a CZcams channel, as well.
@@michaellorenson2997 thanks! I am tempted to get a set of those - I’ve watched quite a few of the C&S Corvettes videos on here, they are really informative and have helped me out :)
Some Holden’s came with the same engine. Some HSVs even had Callaway engines. So probably plenty more mechanics used to the motor in Oz. Like later Buick V6s they came from the factory with roller rockers & roller lifters, meaning it probably revs better than old OHV V8s from the 60’s & 70’s
Even before then in the C2 and C3 were Amazing sports cars of their time, the C3 was on par with the 911 in terms of handling. sure the 70's dragged on and it didn't get any updates but the platform was still on par with world class sports cars for handling.
Being a 2 valve pushrod engine is a huge plus in my opinion. Simple, light, small and powerful package.
LOL
You're ridiculous.
A Caterham is a simple, light, small, and powerful package. This isn't.
@@DjNikGnashers what isn't? The Corvette or a 2 valve pushrod? I think both are
@@ericdolby1622 A yank tank coupe is not simple, small, or light.
A V8 engine isn't simple, small, or light.
Something like a Caterham is simple, small, and light. Even something like a Lotus Elise is simple, small, and light.
You think a Corvette with a V8 is simple, small, and light, probably because you're a yank who only has 3 ton pick-ups and SUV's to compare things with.
@@DjNikGnashers yep that's why. You got me.
@@DjNikGnashersit's likely in the V8 world, and the tech/concept behind this is fairly simple. Not our fault your homes are smaller than our engines...real cars should not be compared to muffins on wheels 😂
1:45 2-valve and pushrod allow the heads to be pretty light and short, lowering the center of gravity of the car. And the bigger displacement allows the C5 to be as fast as a 360 Modena for a much lower price. I’m a Ferrari guy at heart but the fact is that the Corvette C5/C6 is tremendous sports car for the money.
The C5 runs low 13s in the quarter mile, the 360 runs mid to low 12s. It’s no where near as fast as a 360 but it’s close to the f355
@@bbc_junior4863 First of all c5 basses run high 12s and secondly the c5 Z06 runs a 12.4 compared to the 360's 12.2 when using the same magazine drivers. I wouldn't say nowhere near as fast. Although if that's really your issue a cheap supercharger or turbocharger can easily be added to this generation. I wouldn't do that with a ferrari. I would even trust a lightly modded vette's reliability over a completely stock ferrari any day.
2004 C5 Z06 owner here. Done coilovers, spec endlinks, and bushings, race brakes and lines, short shifter and summer tires. I have never had as much fun in any other car.
You're correct about the standard cheap interior, but Americans buy Corvettes for the power, handling, and reliability. I may not drive my vette once a week, but when I get in it I know it's going to crank, run and be fun.
I have owned four C5s, and I must say they are the finest cars I've ever had. The durability of their engines surpasses those Euro Trash counterparts, which often rack up hefty maintenance costs and retire at a mere 100,000 miles. Unlike them, the C5s are far from problematic. In fact, my experience with them was so exceptional that I ended up parting ways with my 911, as it failed to live up to the standard set by my C5s.
The performance of the C5s is truly remarkable. These cars are capable of reaching speeds of 180 mph, and the C5 Z06 can even surpass 200 mph without any modifications. This performance level, coupled with their reasonable price, begs the question: what alternatives does Europe have to offer? It seems that this Euro-dismissive attitude towards anything American fails to acknowledge the incredible value and performance that the C5s bring to the table.
I have owned a Corvette for 8 years (C6) and in Canada drive it for six months of the year. In 80,000 kms of driving I have replaced the battery, a tire pressure sensor and the tires once. I also own a BMW 3-Series, which has half the horsepower and hefty maintenance bills. The Corvette makes an excellent long-distance tourer but also offers serious speed. It does seem to provoke prejudice in people, as many of the comments here show.
I have a c5 z06, it can only go about 170 due to gearing. The c6 z06 is the one that does 198 stock. Lovely car, but it has been far from problem free for me. I would go as far to say as it isn’t a whole lot better than some of its counterparts reliability wise, as I have basically had to rebuild the whole car top to bottom to get it running how it should at a mere 135k miles. But it is still the cheapest at the end of the day for what it’s worth, and more raw and engaging than anything I’ve ever been in and driven.
@@peterb4143 C5s can achieve terminal speed in only 5th gear. Additionally the car will start to become unstable above 180. Law of physics takes over. Unless you have made serious body and suspension mods.
@@philroder4878 yep, and from my knowledge 5th tops out around 170 at 6500rpm? I’ve only taken her to about 147 or so which is the top of 4th, seemed pretty stable to me but I don’t think I’d ever make the 4-5 shift, no need to ever go that fast in “Mexico.”
Why you have to say Euro trash you diaper boy !!!!
The interior looks ok to me 😶 I quite like the driving position and gear change. Still looks terrific on the outside.
I always smile when I see mine, interior included. all car interior of the end of 90's are similar, cheap plastics ... or ugly boxy leather ...
The opinion of the Corvette will never change. That LS based engine is by far not antiquated, the technology to build those engines is on par with anything out there even today. These are sports cars that last as long as a commercial vehicle with minor maintenance and upkeep. That Vette will be on the road performing just as well with 250k miles about 1/2 million KM 20 years from now, not many sports cars can say this with that kind of power to weight today.
I've been lucky enough to own a number of exotics over the years including Ferrari's and Lambo's however I've always had a soft spot for Vette's and have owned a C3, C4, C6 and C6-ZO6 , I loved them all, they may have low rent interiors however they were great to drive , sounded fabulous and looked fantastic , the ZO6 was probably my favourite car of all time , a complete hooligan that put a smile on my face every time I drove it (you should test one)
I got a c5 z06 after the divorce. It's not like other corvettes. I got it from another divorced guy so the engine has been made even more classless. It just wants to eat. The gears are such that you have to work for the same speed a newer corvette would give you (too) easily. Everything is hard to do, but if you keep working harder it keeps giving you more. Dog will hunt
@Tom B hell yeah I did. The hot young grandma's at the casino love it
Allow me to add my two pence here: I know, everybody gets carried away by the fact the Corvette had leaf springs. There is however nothing wrong with a leaf spring. Like any other spring, it has its advantages and disadvantages and in the right application it will do its job well. The bad reputation comes from Escorts or Cortinas and the likes, where the leaf spring had to do two jobs: It had to be a spring and it had to make sure the rear axle stayed where the factory had installed it. And since the "keep the axle in its place" job wasn't done overly well, everyone came to the conclusion "leaf spring = rubbish". Let the spring be a spring and outsource the wheel position job to some wishbones and all is well.
Also the two valve pushrod engine: Nothing wrong with that either. A friend of mine, US (SAE) automotive engineer told me that at in the same period GM made the Northstar 32 valve four overhead cam V8 for Cadillac. Yes, that one ticked all the boxed in the fancy engine design Bingo, but by comparison (power, emissions, fuel efficiency) the Northstar and the pushrod V8's were on par.
And yes: I am itching to get a C6 Z06 😀
Being transverse leaf and IRS the Corvette's rear suspension has always kept the contact patch in place when resisting lateral loads. The late C3's saw the composite spring as a 1 for 1 replacement of the multi-leaf metal spring. I figured there would be a lot of broken and delaminated leaf springs as time went on. But the design was so robust they continued using it for decades! C5 ride is very smooth while cruising for a sports car and much better than that constant head jiggle from the C3 and C4s. The C4 Z06 had overhead cams and timing belts but the engine's displacement was so high reciprocating mass limited peak rpm negating any benefit of the lighter valvetrain. When they sat down to design a new small block designers knew it would again be over 5 liters and again limited to about 5,500 rpm, so based on their C4 Z06 experience overhead cams were never even considered.
Leaf springs also held the FRONT wheels on for the early Minis and Escorts... spring breaks... and... OOPS !!!
@@cratecruncher6687 - Displacement of 350" didn't limit the RPMs of the 4 valve Corvette engines... it just wasn't designed to rev really high from the factory... and later 2 valve 350s have more HP...
The later 2 valve 427" LS7 Corvette engines rev to 7,000 RPMs... and start pulling at 500 RPMs... see 01:31 here:
czcams.com/video/Ko9kzyqW-l8/video.html
@@BuzzLOLOL Nah, the Minis always had "rubber balls" or hydrolastic springs rather than leaf springs. Mini's were IRS all round from day one
@@fritzbrause6332 - Leaf springs holding the front wheel on Minis are considered IRS as well...
Rubber springs didn't last long enough...
As Mr regular says, "it has the LS motor, the game genie of engines", "with the LS you win"
The C5 sold 250,000 units so it seems like they hit their market spot on.
A Corvette like this is actually kind of like a Lotus. The focus have been on performance and handling, using unusual technical solutions and a powerful engine as light and physical small as possible. The interior are functional, with no money wasted on expensive materials. These cars are built for being used as daily drivers like Porsche, not rich guys sunday drive like the typical Ferrari or Lambo.
I do not ike this comparison. Comparing a Lotus to a Vette is like comparing a parkour runner to a sumo wrestler.
@@geographyinaction7814 I had a C6 and a lotus evora and think the comparison is apt in some ways. Both have outside the box thinking in terms of engineering solutions, lightweight materials, and cost-cutting in the interiors.
Where they differ is their approach to performance. The lotus is all about balance and finesse. The corvette is more about brute force. If I could have my perfect car I would take the corvette V8 engine in the lotus chassis.
As an Italian who lived in the UK and now in the US, I will say this - I got my 1985 vette for 3.3k and have the fun of a lifetime. In Italy, there's really no option for the price, maybe 10k but still, not a vette and it would cost a lot to maintain, use and insure.
I can guarantee you that Corvettes, as much as american Muscle cars in general (I am aware the Vette is a sports car and not muscle), would be INCREDIBLY popular in Europe...IF:
1) They would cost as much as they do in the US (base models in the platform start at around $30k new in the US, half or less than in Europe)
2) They would not be subject to ridicolous taxation (IVA/VAT etc)
3) They would not cost a ton to insure just because of their huge engines (still unclear to me why that would be a factor, as opposed to the cost of spare parts, which is lower than average)
4) Cost of EU gas would be that of gas in the US (or, even better, gas in the Gulf)
5) Parking spaces and lanes would be as large as those in the US (and, why not, have 6-12 lanes on highways instead of stupid 3-4)
With any 4 out of the above, I would bet big bucks that they would sell more than those in the same platform as BMW series 3, Mercedes 550 or Audi A4/A5s and the like, for the simple reason that most people would be able to afford them and like them.
Funny fuct - in the US, German manufacturers sell their best models and those with the most HP and biggest engines. In South FL, we have tons of Class G, 550 AMG, SLS, SLR, M5s, M6s, 911 GTS and many others in the league, not to mentiong the luxury Italian stuff. You see them in Germany evey now and then, but here is like everyday stuff & all over the place.
What most Europeans fail to understand is that american muscle and sports cars are manufactured based on 1 main principle: being fun & affordable, not fancy or exclusive. It's a cultural thing. German cars are manufactured to the best without any compromise, and being pricey is the obvious result (plus, Europeans like to be exclusive and branding comes with status-symbol VIP mentality as well).
Having said that, we in Italy don't normally turn our heads for Porsches, BMWs or Mercedes, but a loud & sexy Camaro, Viper, Corvette, Charger/Challenger, Saleen S7 or even a simple Mustang would pile up people and their iPhones on the curbside, while in the US that is everyday college kids stuff.
I guess the DeTomaso Pantera got the best from both.
The "2 valve" LS engine is probably one of the best engines produced in the past 50yrs. You don't buy a Vette for the interior, you buy it for the drive. The leaf springs do the job better than most newer sports cars.
And whoever put those tires on that should have a stern talking to.
I love that interior! You can do a radio mod that has a big touch screen, which looks sharp in these.
The gentleman fails to appreciate the single greatest asset of the car he is driving… It has gone the equivalent of more than 5 times around the earth, or halfway to the moon… all the while having been as easy to maintain as a pickup truck… and is still capable of producing goosebumps on whoever is fortunate enough to drive it! THAT, Sir, is an engineering triumph!
I had a C4 when I was younger here in the U.K. I think they have a sense of exotica due to being never sold here that they obviously don't really possess. I went into ownership expecting it to be a boat compared to euro stuff but I was chuffed with it's performance and how cheap I could buy parts. Build quality of the interior was shocking though.
Yeah, Chevy loved all those plastic Fisher-Price toy-like buttons on the interior. They do run well though 😉
Are Chevy parts readily available in the U K..? I'm a yank, so I don't know too much about the U.K. car market in regards to American cars
@@brettbanta2100 now very much so with the internet. Back then I used a place called Rodley Motors in Bradford. I think every hot rodder / drag racer / customizer used them! Never any issues with consumables. Always in stock. All the best from England bud.
@@klutchcustoms2428 You too, my friend!
Cheers
Here in the states, I see alot of pensioners driving around in convertible versions. Especially, in Scottsdale, Arizona.
Love it when you put the boot in all too briefly @around 5 and 8.5 min THAT SOUND !!!
Fun to see a Corvette in the mix. I owned a 64 Stingray, new. I was young and loved it and so did the girls. My problem with all the Corvettes that followed was the size. They all got too big. But there were racers back in those days that humbled many European cars just on the strength of the Chevy engine. Thanks for the ride.
I am a German working in the United States and while I am working here I promised myself I would try vehicles not available in Europe.
IMO Cadillac makes sports sedans that are as good or better than comparable BMWs and Corvettes , especially newer ones, are just as capable as European exotics costing much more.
I've had my 99 C5 convertible for 6 years. Love it. I believe most people who bash the C5 have never actually driven one or owned one. They simply repeat what someone else has said. The LS1 was a great engine. Small block, 6 bolt main, aluminium heads and block, roller rockers. 345 hp, 3,200 lbs. Affordable.
Thanks Jack, looked like you had some fun there. Good to see a Corvette on your channel! 🙏🙏
A friend of a friend that lives in Canada has one of these, I was over visiting a few years back and got a to drive the C5 and I absolutely loved it! The interior is horrendous but the engine makes up for it.
I drove from Brampton in Toronto to Niagara the trip didn't take very long at all 😂
I hope while tootling through Southern Ontario you noticed that you were driving on the Queen Elizabeth Way, known to all and sundry as the (expiative) QEW?
@@coldlakealta4043 I'm not with you my friend?
The advantage of the pushrod engine is its compactness. LS motors are very small and light
It’s funny how General Motors developed an engine that’s lighter, more powerful, more compact, more efficient, more reliable, and less expensive to maintain than any of the competition at the time, yet because it’s “low tech” people look down on it. Sometimes the simple solutions are the best. The wood used for the floor also was the best solution (strength, weight, cost, sound deadening properties, etc) when a variety of materials were looked at.
I could also go on a long rant about how the leaf springs are a better solution than coils, but I see others have already commented on this.
The LS(3 ?) is probably the lightest performance engine per power!
There is nothing wrong with a leaf spring. And the way it's done from composites it is very light. YOu will actually find a similarish solution from Fiat 128.
From C5 the Vettes have been probably the most performance per price, they handle well and yet they are still undervalued.
The sound is a typical US cross crank sound aas compared to the flat crank solutions of the European. The flat crank engine is basically two straight fours with an easy exhaust tuning where as the US cross crank has a much more difficult header and exhaust tuning.
I think Vette won the Le Mans GT-class already with the C5 but I could be wrong.
The one thing where the Vette is not good is accidents, but then neither are Ferraris before 360. The rigidity of the body is something where Porsche was a decade or three ahead of others.
The C5 has an LS1 engine, with the C6 having first the LS2 and then in 2008 the LS3.
The interiors are basic '90s/2000s GM (ie. cheap), but I have to say that my '02 Z06 had no squeaks or rattles whatsoever. It only had 20,000mls, but still, solid as a rock. And I actually like the styling of the interior - probably a nostalgia thing. And I'm one of those guys that subscribes to O'Rourke's and Judd's coach trimming channels and uses Leatherique on the Connolly leather in my Bentley, so I think I have decent taste and knowledge. Lol
Jack, the Corvette stands alone without a real competitor. The US list price in 2000 was just under $40K. A 911 was ~$65K and if you wanted open air, ~$75K. A 355 was ~$128K in coupe form and $131K in targa guise. I admit the Corvette’s interior was pretty low grade, but most American cars of that era were not that great, regardless of price point. However, to compare the Corvette interior to cars substantially more expensive isn’t really fair. Would you compare a 2000 Cadillac to a Bentley? Probably not, and the difference in price is probably about the same ratio as the Corvette/Ferrari.
The interior might let it down a bit although it doesn't look too bad to me. However, that exterior more than makes up for it. I think it looks great.
The 2 valve push rod design is actually an advantage when it comes to space. This engine can fit in a much smaller space than an overhead cam V8. This is why the LS is a favorite for engine swaps. Impressive power to weight and space ratio.
I've got a C4 and I love the effing thing. It's all the car I ever want or need.
I ran a C4 convertible with factory hardtop throughout the 1990s. Koni shocks wound all the way up transformed it. I got to drive quite a few Ferrari during that time which made me appreciate the C4 bargain basement reliability and cheap servicing. After nearly a decade I sold the car for what I originally paid for it
I once owned a British car… I was always grateful for the quality of the interior, as it kept me comfortable while waiting for a tow truck to bring me home.
the interior is there to encourage you to remove it and put in a roll cage so you can do it for Dale :)
To me, the interior looks businesslike. A purposeful car with a purposeful interior. Comment from USA.
Another plus for the Corvette is that they're stupid easy to work on and parts are readily available (at least in North America). If you need a water pump for that car, you can get one for little money at the local parts store and be back on the road in a couple hours.
Thank you for another terrific review. Regardless of the car, your knowledge and honesty are top shelf.
The GM LS series engines are one of the best in the world. To think that the one you’re driving makes 350HP but a simple cam and cylinder head change and a re-tune and you’re looking at over 400HP, (at the wheels!) makes the Corvette an even more attractive alternative.
Had a '97 C5. It went like hell. Maintaining it was fun. One car I wish I still had.
Having driven my mom's old 2000 Vette and my friend Larry's 2001 Boxster I'd purchase a Vette before the Box. There is absolutely nothing like the sound of a push rod engine. Thanks for the vid.
Love it!!! Always wondered what these are like, and don’t think I would have ever tried or got one, but this is such a good taste of what it would be like, thanks
I live with one, on the same mileage and in better shape than the one presented. do yourself a favour, try one.
Forget the shortcomings, what a great looking car.
The other good thing about it is how easy you can fix it yourself, from the engine to the body which is fiberglass, you can patch it yourself.
I have a 1973 Convertible with slightly enhanced V8 (5.7litre 280HP DIN with Lt1 pistons and HO cam) and it handles good and quality is not worse than an TR6 or MG not slower than an E Type 3.8
As an American I was quite curious of your view. As is normal I think you were quite fair. Only big point missed is that you could expect to be able to drive a Corvette across our big country and expect no issues. A generally fun car for a budget price when compared to other sports car competition. (Although you said that) Cheers
Good review of a car I've owned 25 years. But it is more a bargain GT than a world class sports car. In my experience nothing is better on a 400 mile road trip these days. It really can get 30 mpg even at near 80 mph! The secret is the big torquey truck engine, tall 6th gear, and a body plan like a fish (the long wheelbase and overhangs are for aerodynamics). While my base C5 can handle the track, ultimately it's the weight that kills it's ability to perform the more delicate maneuvers. My '99 tips the scale right at 3300 pounds (1500 kg). Compare that with my bone stock Bertone X1/9 at 2100 pounds (950 kg) and the problem is obvious. When I purchased the C5 back in 1998 I was considering three cars: Corvette, Porsche Boxster, and the Mazda RX-7 Turbo. The Corvette screamed VALUE compared to the others. The Boxster was way more money for way less power (and it's Porsche so part$). The Mazda just seemed too thirsty, too complicated and too fragile having daily'd a 13B for a decade. The later C6 is often jokingly referred to as the C5.5 because it's like a C5 but with wheelbase and overhangs shortened considerably.
And the best part is the C6 doesn’t have those silly popup headlights. Of course the power is much more abundant in the C6. I owned both a C5 and C6 ZO6.
@@CrazyPetez Funny the C6 headlight bucket is the only thing on that car that gives me indigestion. I'm an '80s guy. Gotta' have moving headlights or it isn't a proper sports car!
I agree it is a good review. I owned a red '99 C5 coupe for 20 years and put 160k miles on it. The engine never gave a problem and on the highway I could always get 28 mpg. I gave it to my daughter and now have a red 2015 C7Z06. I still remember the first time I saw the C5. I thought it had some of the best lines on any car and still think it is better looking than my C7. I loved that C5 and for $34k it was a phenomenal deal. The interior was never as bad as some made out and it held up incredibly well after 20 years and that is hardly what anyone should call crap. The C5 handled beautifully and had plenty of horsepower for the street. My 2015 Z06 is great for the track but has too much power for the street and can get away from you quickly.
@@wess1061 Now that you mention it the interior in my C5 has also held up well and it's the base model. I have one small crack in the driver door armrest area. It only gets driven a couple of times a week though.
With all due respect, but you can't compare the weight of a Corvette to that of an X1/9. The engine alone weighs a lot more than the tiny 4-cylinder plant in that and the other cars mentioned. Other V8 sportscars are at least as heavy or heavier. There's just not a lot you can do from the engineering perspective if you decide to work with a big V8.
The C4 corvette outperformed the 911 when it debuted in 1983, I don’t get where the Corvettes can’t handle idea came from.
C4's definitely brought performance back to the Corvette. There's a reason they were kicked out of the SCCA.
The Corvette C4 beat the Porsche 944 turbo 29-0 from 1985 to 1987 in SCCA racing
Vettes have always been about being an affordable, trouble free, performance car. Unlike a Ferrari, Lambo, etc. It can go 100k trouble free miles. Whereas a Ferrari would’ve needed many services costing tens of thousands. The biggest downfall is GM’s interior choices. I agree. The interiors use the same components as the cheaper model cars in their quest to save money.
And lets be honest here. When you put the pedal to the floor. It sounds friggin AMAAAAAZING! 🤣
Actually in Sweden (part of Europe) the Vette always sold very well.
Also in Finland, the other day there was this latest mid engined model sitting on display in the middle of a shopping center. Pretty common sight on road in various forms especially in summer. Another thing that was mentioned in the video was the use of wood. This is what I found online "The floor boards on the C5 are a composite sandwich of SMC with balsa wood in the middle. Balsa wood was chosen for its extreme stiffness, light weight and excellent sound deadening qualities"
Very minor point but GM in this era made 4 times as many Corvettes annually as Ferrari made total cars (all models). This was performance for a whole different class of Consumer than your average Porsche or Ferrari buyer, at least here in the States. And your neighborhood mechanic could probably service it. Oh and you could carry two sets of golf clubs in the trunk too...
I quite like the interior layout, reminds me a bit like the Ford Sierra where the dial, stereo etc is facing the driver rather than being more universal. Sounds great thought.
I think chevy did the badge justice with this series and hit the right price point at the time just right. Kudos to GM, shame they are a shadow now.
Most of thr dislike for American engines is a lack of understanding.
Sure, this 6.0 V8 makes less power than say a 4.9 V8 in an e39 M5
However, it's cheaper to build, more reliable, less stressed, requires less RPM, easier to work on and easier to live with and drive. It might "only" rev to 6k rpm, but it makes its power all the way through the rev range, where as revvy european engines only male power at the top end and rarely do you even get to the top end.
And it has torque. Lots of torque.
it's mainly the fact that there's also something called pride... americans always think they're the only ones with pride, but germans, brits, etc also have a certain pride in their cars, preferring those atop the choicelist no matter the cost
Also lots of thirst, very different roadhandling compared to European and Asian sportscars and it IS "built by Americans, for Americans."
The problem many Europeans have with US cars is that they're just too.... I guess I'd say tailor-made for the US market, whereas European and Asian cars are far more made for a world-wide customer base. US cars are primarily being made for highway cruising and that just doesn't work over here in Europe.
Then there's that weird tendency in US cars to innovate as little as possible, whereas Europeans and Asians love innovation. Just take the leaf-springs and/or the carburettors US cars retained for such a long time. Those are immediate let-downs for European customers. Then there are the dimensions of the cars (in older cities in Europe the roads are very narrow and the problems US cars have with tight corners, of which there are ample in Europe and the mostly super comfortable suspension, whereas Europeans and Asians prefer a much firmer suspension. Build quality is also a problem: US cars seem to be built to keep hanging together for only a couple of years. After that everything just breaks or falls apart, which is totally contrary to what European and Asian buyers expect from a car.
But even if you can live with all those things, low fuel consumption is a major selling point in Europe and Asia and that's something US cars don't do so well. Relatively high fuel consumption is totally acceptable in the US, but not so much in the rest of the world.
In short: US cars are just too specialized for the US market to sell well in the rest of the world.
@tjroelsma5906 all well and good, but I said engines, not cars.
And this is now an old car. The latest Corvette is a bit of a revelation. The engine in the Z06 sounds absolutely phenomenal, and if you look at the top 50 lap times at the ring, you'd be surprised at how many are US Market cars.
You can't have beef with America building cars for American tastes and roads either.
They don't sell most of them abroad, so why even bother changing most of their recipes?
The only reason they would need to change is if they were losing sales domestically to foreign rivals. Which, given the price difference, is unlikely.
As for lack of innovation, going back to engines, most innovative engines are unreliable, complex, expensive to build and expensive to repair.
Americans just don't like that. They want to spanner stuff themselves. They won't their cars to do 200k miles without having to have new rod bearings, valve guides, head gaskets, oil changes every half hour etc etc
@@matthewnicholas6365 I'm not having a beef with anything, I'm just stating how things work.
And yes, American manufacturers have finally seen the light and have modernised their engines, but the reputation they have of being decades behind in development isn't easily forgotten.
So even if the new engine in the new Corvette is just as much state of the art as say a Mercedes, BMW or even a Ferrari engine, there's still that reputation that withholds a lot of people from buying a new Corvette over here in Europe or in Asia.
The second problem is that GM dealers outside of the US don't see many US vehicles in their shops and so they haven't really got the expertise and even more deadly, the spare parts for those cars. A neighbour of mine drove a Jeep Cherokee with the V-8 and he had to wait multiple weeks on a simple part before his broken down Jeep could be fixed.
On top of that are the issues I stated in my previous post and it all adds up to people being reluctant to buy a US car that has been imported.
Your last point is both true and not true: most innovative engines can be pretty reliable if they're being serviced regularly. Forget about the "20.000 miles" oil change interval, that's just crap from the manufacturer/dealer. Have the car serviced after say 5000 miles and all of a sudden it becomes far more reliable. Then there's the problem of these new cars having to be more complex because of regulations. Adding a catalyst, mandatory safety features like ABS, EBC or whatever they call it etc costs a lot of money and that money is being skimped out on making other parts as cheap as possible. But again, regular services at much shorter intervals will spot troubles with those cheaper parts and prevent them from happening.
The plus side of all that tech and those regulations is that modern European and Asian cars are far more fuel efficient and safer to drive, which weighs much heavier in Europe and Asia than in the US.
Plus, you can modify that V8 to make more power than you or I can hook up, and as many RPMs as you are ever likely to need.
You have to remember GM wanted to kill the corvette. It was saved by a bunch of engineers who built it in secret so to keep costs down and not have to answer the bean counters, they used parts from other GM vehicles to keep the cost down.
Pre Covid you could buy one of these in mint condition for $12-14k with a manual. Z06 variant C5 were $14-20k. Parts are cheap. Great MPG. What's not to love ...
I owned a 2001 C5 and quite candidly, at the track (road course) it was not competitive with many of the cars. We replaced the engine with a C5R-427 (which was free) then upgraded tranny, shocks, stabilizer bars, brakes, wheels and tires. That was a true beast. Panoz Racing nicknamed her "Vette on steroids."
Say what you will about the cheap plastic buttons, but at least they don’t get sticky.
Interior is reminiscent of the 90s NSX. Its not classy/special but in a weird way still has some retro-charm in 2023. Super slippery shaped exterior and burbly exhaust note will definitely turn heads too I reckon. It’s not a Ferrari, but doesn’t need to be. Cool car
I also see 90s Japanese influences in the interior.
I think this was a very fair review. Of course, the first Corvette to really handle was the C4, which punished European competitors in racing, and in its ZR-1 variant easily would outrun contemporary Countachs (although it was double the price of a base Corvette!). One of the issues with Corvette is that it is supposed to be all things to all people, so there are track variants, like the Z06, and ones meant to be more like a Grand Tourer. All are supposed to be reliable and I am amazed that that interior still looks so solid, if not that appealing, after 130,000 miles. The engines are generally bulletproof (show us those 355s with that kind of mileage) and the cars are extremely practical--lots of space for luggage, excellent highway fuel economy, the removable top for sunny days, and first-rate heating/AC. I suspect that their lack of popularity in Europe comes from their perceived size (although only 4" longer than a contemporary Porsche 911 and a bit wider) and comparatively low price, which in itself lacks snob appeal. As have all cars, the Corvette has improved with more recent generations, notably in the interior. I believe that the C5 actually does not have a transaxle but a rear-mounted transmission, so different from exotica.
Transaxle refers to the rear-mounted transmission.
It’s nothing to do with perceived size. And it also not about snob value because they cost almost double the US price in Europe. So they are not looked on as a cheaper option. At around €100k for the base model, they’re competing with Porsche Cayman, Maserati Ghibli, Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio, Jaguar F Type, BMW M3 etc. With Chevrolet having no real profile in Europe, someone with €100k+ will be drawn to cars that are recognised marques. Especially as there is no Chevrolet dealerships to even see the cars. Only the Camaro and Corvette are technically sold in Europe but most people wouldn’t even know where to look for one.
Allied to that is the complete lack of dealership support. If you buy one, you will almost certainly have no garage anywhere near you that will want to work on it and getting parts will be difficult.
So it’s not an irrational bias against them. It’s just not a live option for a European car buyer.
@@Dreyno
That said, if you have any kind of American hot rod community/store locally you'll have access to most of what you'll need as a Corvette owner.
@@freman007 But that won’t encourage ordinary car buyers to buy a new one. If you can buy a BMW a kilometre from your house or an Alfa Romeo 50km away or a Porsche 100km away, becoming an “enthusiast” to scavenge for parts for your independent mechanic isn’t going to convince many potential buyers. They’re an oddity in Europe. If you really want one, you can source one and buy it. But they’re not really an option for most people for lots of reasons.
@@varmastiko2908 Actually the Corvette's arrangement is a separate transmission and differential while a transaxle combines the two units in a single mechanism.
The C5 was also the first Corvette that could shut down 4 cylinders at low speed up to 60 miles or so and run on 8.5 liter petrol for about 60 miles or 100 kilometers…. So the gas guzzler theme was over…
Great video and refreshing that the car wasn't a disappointment. Imagine driving it down to Le Mans; that would be great!
Never owned a Corvette, but I did have a Chevy SS Sedan with a 6-sp manual (Corvette 6.2 litre V8) and that motor is from the GODS!! (to quote Jason Cammisa) they seem like bargain performance buys. Not bad looking, but yeah the interiors have always been a cost saving area.
"I'm not sure about using wood as part of the structure."
F1 floor has left the chat.....
😊
I'd love you to get your hands on a C8 especially a Z06 version. I think you would find that they are up there with most exotics and with a decent interior as well.
You're right the interior does not match the body but who cares when you got that much power
Always thought that if for the last 40 years GM officially imported Corvette here in right hand drive with better interiors (collaborated with Vauxhall or Holden) they could have had some success with it here.
Steve Steve. I bought a c5 2003 from a dealer in London many years ago. The guy said he went to a big meeting in the US and he asked a top ceo guy and said there all coming to the UK in left hand drive. He replied I'm surprised u sell any !!..... Look how many Mustangs you see here now u can buy them in right hand form and get serviced locally.
@@VIP-rp3oq, there you go mate. At some point in our lives we've all fancied an American muscle car whether GM or Ford..
The interior in this Vette, is about the same as the Tahoe, the Trucks, and all. It's GM. Generic Motors. The vette is fine as is.
Great review! Please review a c7 z51 or grand sport - addresses a lot of the interior issues and it’s the last manual Vette!
If you, perhaps, ever get a chance, please try a 6th Gen Z06. The handling is fantastic, the interior is a lot better, though still not up to spec for the price...tho mine has held up really well...I've had mine for going on 11 years with nearly 120K miles. It's equipped with 4S non EMTs. The engine is 7L and revs to 7K. According to Savagegeese, it has a lot more character, too. It's supposed to be the 'Driver's Car' out of all the Corvettes. Except for the new C8Z, perhaps. But, certainly a lot more analog, imho. Anyway, I'm glad you were able to finally try out the transaxle variant. And actually like the old girl. Anyway, I'm not getting rid of mine anytime soon. It still gives me a huge smile every time I get behind the wheel. 🍻
Really enjoyed this… I’ve had my C5 since 2017 and it’s a super reliable car, agreed it’s more in the GT category though.
However it does need a new battery and I’ve just got 5% off an Optima Red Top from Tayna - thanks Jack!
Put 130,000 miles on that admittedly beautiful ferrari, and it won't hold a candle to that corvette.
Pushrod V-8s rev to around 9,000 rpm in NASCAR races, (but they do have very-carefully picked valve springs).
Z06 is a better C5 variant but only in coupe form. Coil-over spring conversion is also a welcome upgrade.
The sound of the engine is amazing. Note what he says about the engine being low down in the frame. The push rod V8 engine is actually extremely compact. If you go to a junkyard and look at a fancy overhead valve 32 valve engine with overhead camshafts, it's 50% larger, wider, and taller than a V8 LS1 or LT1 style "push rod" engine. In an old Chevy truck, when you open the hood, the V8 engine looks tiny, because of how extremely compact the push rod engine is. Chevy did the right thing by not over complicating the Corvette. The sound of the engine is just beautiful. And those V8 engines are known to last forever, with no major failures.
Another competitor is my daily driver - an E39 M5. Fairly well matched in performance and price at the time.
Nice and fair review! If you're ever interested in reviewing a C5 Z06 in Ireland, let me know.
1:20
SMC is, as was described to me, like horse manure. Whereas carbon composite usually has the strands (plies) in a continuous direction are are often woven as a 2-ply sheet, SMC is just short strands of carbon fibre packed into the resin at whatever angle they assume when being compressed.
I can remember with fondness - what must be around 15 years ago - being in smalltown mid-West US at a leisure complex - the bingo had finished for the afternoon, the car park emptied - and its retired patrons who mostly drove C5s, were barely able to walk back to their cars - before roaring off in them.
Correct. Calling the composite leaf spring a leaf spring isn't really accurate. It is really a torsion spring and allows very good packaging in the rear of the car. It's actually quite sophisticated in it's simplicity and works well. Yes, they cut some cost on the interior, all to give it tremendous value. Certainly as good as most Porsche's of the day. They're great cars and extremely dependable. I'd recommend driving the newer generations also.
It is really a transverse single-leaf spring pack, using same layout as a Model-T Ford uses...not that GM didn't do a stellar job of getting it to work well. It is definitely _not_ a torsion spring - those are of a completely different design.
@@aussiebloke609 , transverse leafsprings have also been used Lancia and Fiat... and by Volvo in modern time.
@@westmus This may be, but I don't see how this particular layout lends itself to a twisting force being applied to the spring. As far as I can see, it's a linear bending action, which would make it a leaf spring.
@@westmus And the Volvo variant was directly copied from the Corvette; composite build and all.
The soundtrack is magnificent
She doesn't scream cheapness she just screams 90s gm
Yup, even Fords and Dodges of this era had basically the same interior.
@@ClellBiggs yes a lot of square buttons with rounded edges everywhere. Personally I do not mind it but it looks dated and not "classic"
I have a 2002 Z51 suspension Corvette . It is somewhere between the magnetic ride control in your review and the Z06 .
YES! At last, an American icon 🙌
Bout time! 👍🏻
American cars were shit until Tesla and Hennessey.Even the famous Ford GT40 wasn't American.It was the work of Lola in the UK.
@@Michael-yd5ry Now, now, nobody likes a hater 😉. Just like “ALL” car brands in the world, Corvette has had its ups and downs, there are “NO” perfect brands/cars out there…..although it seems RIMAC is pretty darn close 🤔
Americans make crap cars they just look ridiculous totally over the top no style
@@Michael-yd5ry Incorrect. I'm willing to bet you've never even driven one.
Agree with your review totally. For people in the states these are cheap and plentiful. The 2v LS engine is strong and very simple. Excellent for when the car gets old and a home mechanic needs to do some heart surgery. No worries with the composite leaf springs. Again simple and Corvettes have had them since the last few years of the C3 in the rear so it's sorted out. The cylinder activation of later V8 engines is absolutely horrible so C5 and LS3 C6 still have DIY tech for sure. I also like the earlier C4 Corvette as well and have owned several of those too.
Cover the interior with Alcantara and I think it would look amazing change some of the plastic switches for CNC machined aluminium I don't think you would cost that much to revamp the whole interior
Lotus did a transverse leaf spring on some of their cars too
You should drive the same year Z06 if you get an opportunity.
Timing belt replacement for 355 Ferrari 7-9 grand. Timing chain and gear replacement for C5 Vette 1.5-2 grand and timing chains last a lot longer than timing belts. Maintenance for the Vette is much less expensive.
Jack great review! As a viewer over in the states I was surprised how much you liked the C5. I’ve had a C5 as well as a couple of 996s and a carbed 308 like yours and the C5 was by far my least favorite. I found it just not to excite. It had speed and power by was just muted in how it felt accelerating and handling. Even as a GT I found it numb compared to a six cylinder DB7 I once had. The C5 is a fantastic bang for the buck and a great looking car but I’m not so sure I’d go down the corvette route again myself.
In my mind, the last real Corvette. I have never liked how it looked after that.
Lovely engine note.
Thanks for this!
The C6 and C7 are good looking but the C8 is 🤮
@Wild Bill I like the c6 zr1 but yeh the c8 is horrid ,.it looks like a grand theft auto ferrari wannabe and just odd .
£15k got to be worth it, for one in that condition. So much better looking than the c8 imo love the pop ups of that c5 , great review, Jack.
The new C8 is awful looking. Like someone built a car off a blurry fax of a Ferrari.
Nice, it sounded great.
I had a c5 and honestly it was a great way to get into a corvette and what led me to upgrade to a c6 best decision I’ve made tbh. Anyways the c5 handles good for what it is. The thing that holds the handling back is that long wheel base which I believe the c6 improved on. Taking a u turn pretty fast on rhe c5 will make it fish tail a bit and on rhe c6 none of that. Idk something I noticed. The c6 ls3 is so much car and the interior is simple and effective
My Volvo V60-II (2020) has the exact same suspension setup. Composite leaf spring rear, double wishbone front.
Yep. Took the Europeans a while to adopt this advanced technology.
@@varmastiko2908 Yeah...but we have overhead camshafts.
@@mehrzahl2219 The valve operating system is pretty much the only old-fashioned thing on the C5 Corvette and even that was done for a very good reason. It's far from perfect but us Europeans usually don't know what we're joking about regarding these Vettes.
I love these ride-a-longs.