Why Grammar Hurts Your Learning - Intermediate Spanish
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- čas přidán 6. 03. 2024
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Pablo dispels the myth that studying grammar rules will help you benefit more from your input.
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At Dreaming Spanish, you will learn Spanish the way you learned your native language, namely, through immersion. Simply start watching content at a level that is comprehensible to you, and gradually work your way towards more and more advanced videos.
As researchers like Dr. Stephen Krashen have shown over the past 40+ years, receiving comprehensible input, that is, messages that you can understand in the target language, is what actually results in language acquisition.
By listening to our stories, cultural expositions, conversations and games, you will get used to real Spanish as it's used in context, and develop a native-like intuition for the grammar and the vocabulary, together with a clear pronunciation.
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Would you be able to make a jigsaw without the picture , I am sorry but you need grammar to learn a language you should stop pedaling these silly myths
@@liambyrne591 I mean, if you're a skilled puzzler then you don't need a picture.. I don't think the point is to say that you don't need grammar to be able to use a language, the point is more that you don't need to study grammar specifically because you will learn it in a more instinctive way with this kind of learning.
@@earlyholocene1649I had another look at his video with English subtitles and looked at few other videos,yea I think he might be on to something alright
A little grammar can’t hurt, besides, I meditate, I can switch off the chatter when needed 😁 & push those grammar lessons into my subconscious when listening or talking so I don’t analyse!
I can comprehend the live spain news now and I'm not even half way through the intermediate videos. The method definitely works. One feature I would like to see is on the dreaming spanish website it would be good to have a random option that keeps all of the series episodes in order. So half random 😂 but as pablo knows there is no true random
The king returns
Spanish is the only language I have attempted to learn and of course I'm not a linguist, so I can't really say whether Pablo's method is right or wrong, good or bad, fast or slow, etc.
But I can say with certainty that it was the best method to me because it's the only one I've stuck with. I had tried on many previous occasions to learn Spanish with more traditional methods and I always lost interest. Using comprehensible input alone made this fun for me. I have almost 800 hours now, and I rarely ever skip a day and no part of this has been a chore for me. In fact now I've reached a reasonable level, it is just a habit that costs me no effort to keep up. It's the easiest thing in the world because I'm already going to fritter away my life on CZcams, now I just do that in Spanish instead!
So yeah, thank you to Pablo and the team. This has been a really nice thing for me in my life and I am very happy I stumbled on a Dreaming Spanish video a couple of years back.
agreed :) I can't think of another way of learning a language where you can watch it so passively in 10 minute chunks for example when having breakfast and it still works haha
Linguists can't tell you whether it's good or bad either. They study structures and how we communicate in different ways, speech being only one. I agree I like this method waaaaay more than other's. I'm actually conversing with other in Spanish now.
The Spanish comprehensible input GOAT
I always rewatch Pablo in the Park grammar smackdown videos.
I'm only 350 hours of input in the roadmap but even though I can't speak fluently yet, I can understand A LOT of spanish with relative ease if the topic is about everyday things and conversation. And when I did try speaking, I could get by fairly well and natives are impressed with my ability even though I'm nowhere near fluent, but I can understand quite well. Can't wait to go to 1000 hours and beyond!
So after 350 hours what videos are you looking (mirar) at ,
@liambyrne591 I mostly watch intermediate videos in increased speed and advanced videos. Although watching new beginner videos is still fun for me to watch because some of it is very engaging
@@jamesmccloud7535 can you speak another Latin language maybe french or Italian so that is why you advanced so fast
@liambyrne591 I speak Filipino natively which has 30% vocabulary in Spanish so a lot of words are familiar to me already.
The intermediate level on dreaming Spanish is really elementary. They still speak very slow. Try watching a Netflix show in Spanish and you will see dreaming Spanish is doing you a disservice. No reason to pay for Spanish input.
Have learned Spanish in school, apps, and read books in Spanish over the years but it wasn't until I started consistently listening to the DS videos that I stopped translating in my head. Probably an aggregate effect + time but believe it's the DS that has taken me to my current level of comprehension.
I after reading Chomsky, Krashen, and Brown on this topic, I started DS as a "proof of concept" before tackling my wife's native language: Russian. At 525 hours (and counting) of Spanish CI it is clear that CI not only works, but works for me. I look forward to having 2000 hours and more. The problem is that Dreaming Spanish is the gold standard of CI and Russian does not have nearly as much content out there. So I was interested in your comment that in that situation the most important thing is to learn vocabulary. I have found that it is possible - with Rosetta Stone - to disable both the speaking and writing, essentially turning Rosetta Stone into CI. Of course, it pales in comparison to DS, but this, combined with crosstalk, is slowly getting me from super beginner to the point where I can start to understand the Russian CI videos that are out there. You changed my life.
You have access to Russian-speaking wife, ask her to teach you like she'd teach young kids.
Also as a native Russian speaker, I'm happy for your wife that you are willing to learn a hard and largely useless language for her.
@@rockfalls3007 Could you please explain why you believe Russian is useless?
Yeah, there’s only really the Comprehensible Russian YT channel. (Check out their zero beginner playlist).
In regards to Rosetta Stone:
Change the lesson settings to ‘speaking and listening’ but then also turn off your microphone and it automatically changes to a listening exercise.
Work through 1 lesson a day you will be finished in ~3months.
You want to do a lesson then follow it up with some native immersion ~min 1 hour on Netflix etc. (stick to stuff with lots of visuals).
You’ll have to accept that you won’t understand hardly anything at the beginning, but from going through R.S so quickly, you will understand more everyday as they teach new vocabulary and grammar structures each lesson. IIRC lesson 1 is pretty much just 1 or 2 word sentences, but by lesson 4 it’s longer basic sentences.
Good luck!
Just wait until Pablo starts up his Dreaming Languages Channel . i believe the Dreaming Team is working on that right now . Not sure what languages they will have but hopefully Russian . It's going to be huge !!!
But why o why would you drink from a dirt pool when you have a fresh spring under your roof
exactly - fantastic channel, you nailed it. your teachers are also fabulous.
Gracias Pablo por recordarme que la gramática no es lo más importante sino la comprensión y el input. Soy profesora de español de adolescentes y uso “Somos” , un “currículum” que creo que te encantaría porque no es basado en la gramática. Pero tengo que confesar que como soy cuarentona y aprendí de otra forma en los noventa y me mola la gramática , sigo enseñando cositas de gramática también, pero intento alcanzar un balance entre los dos. Creo que tengo que trabajar más en eso y a veces lhay adolescentes que no tienen mucho interés en mí input😅 aunque estoy notando su progreso poco a poco. Y sabes que cuando una persona me comenta que quiere aprender español, le recomiendo tu canal porque desde mi punto de vista es un tesoro. Incluso que normalmente veo todos los videos nuevos cuando suben de cualquier nivel. Y claro aunque ahora los videos de principiantes son pan comido para mí, me sirven como un ejemplo de cómo hablar con mis estudiantes de manera sencilla. Total. Gracias por todoooooo. Y aquí tienes mi tochoooooo. Jajajaja
Very good all in Spanish and all learned from pablo
Thanks for everything you guys do! At 200 hours and this is already clearly the best method for me to acquire languages. Would love to see more videos interviewing folks that have learned Spanish using DS.
Estoy muy feliz de verte nuevamente!
Pablo! What a fantastic video! And yes, Carlitos would’ve definitely been the biter in that scenario. 😂
Gracias por todo el contento! Ha sido super util!!!
Ur awesome Pablo thank you
Excited for this one
My favorite type of videos. More input!! 🔥🔥
Very usefull. We need more grammar explanation. Add more, please.
It's good to see Pablo again.
Me encanta que usted sigue batallando las ideas malas de adquisicion/ aprendizaje. Realmente eres una inspiracion para mi y para todos!
I would LOVE to have you feature in a video of mine. It would be such an honor. You are basically the reason I speak Spanish, and the reason I started to think and work on language learning content.
La Sombra Del Viento was actually the first book I ever read in Spanish (technically, I read a few short story books and Harry Potter first, but I don't count those).
I loved the story which allowed me to stay motivated to read even when some parts were difficult to understand. I didn't look up a single word.
I found that in general the category of word I was least likely to understand was words related to the physical description of things. So I knew that the author was describing how something looked and I usually got the general idea even if the details were a bit fuzzy.
I started reading it with somewhere between 800-1,000 hours under my belt (I didn't track hours my first year learning back in 2021).
Anyway, it's a great book to read to learn Spanish because the story is so engaging. I'm reading the next book in the series now
I was prepared to argue we should study grammar and get lots of comprehensible input. But discussing so much grammar in one video was too much for me. I surrender. No more grammar 😂.
Que bueno! Gracias 😊
Ojalá poder salir a grabar así en lugares solitarios aquí en latinoamerica
I like the new sideburns mate
Now he needs a Moustache !!!
Someone recently asked me if I thought learning to conjugate was the first thing they should learn regarding their Spanish studies. I said no followed by... "When you were a baby learning to speak were you concerned about conjugation?" 😊
But spanish is not their language, they are learning Spanish, of course they should study conjugations or they will be referencing the wrong subject. Very bad advice.
Also the person is not a child hearing, experienceing, and learning its own language since birth.
It takes a baby two years to learn to say 50 to 100 words. Should it take you that long? By three years old a child can say around 1,000 words. If you had all day everyday with no other work to do, then you should learn way, way faster than that.
I like the method but it is extremely slow if done purely & unless you’re immersing many hours everyday as we’ve seen with EVERY success story it’ll literally take years to be able to understand and speak comfortably. Your adult brain is significantly bigger than a baby’s so why not find a balance & take advantage to speed up the process? If you look at the conjugation rules you immediately understand so many versions of a word that would take you hundreds of hours of listening. I’m not saying study everything in detail but there are shortcuts to be had. If you’re a purist that’s fine too-whatever works & keeps you motivated & meets your time goals
@@TheMiliPro absolutely! I feel that there is a method that is shorter than others. But whatever works best for the individual to meet the goal is great.
Children growing up in the language hears it 24 hours but adults studying it interpret it quicker if they are dedicated.
Conjugation is the most important learning of the language. You have to reference the subject and talk in tenses along with the subjunctive or you are not speaking the language.
The premise of what I wrote of being a baby and not worrying about conjugation to some may be 'bad advice' though to others might be wonderful advice. Learning conjugation as a first step didn't work for me! It actually confused me!!! Listening and speaking is what worked for me. Which than led to me understanding the conjugation.
Everyone learns and processes information differently.
~much love~ kg.❤
i have been studying spanish off and on for 30 years, finally just completed a year in spain and while i see there is some logic to what he is saying, i study every day and went to a local spanish for foreigners school and signed up for a weeks classes. I sit here now and can read the paper, read a book, read signs and advertisements, and even the television news monnikers with tremendously more understanding than i had a year ago. but, i credit that to my study, sometimes 20 hours a week, to the grammar. i like that i can write an email in pretty good fluency, based on my overstudying of grammar. I do have trouble with listening comprehension, but its getting better and better. I think Pablo did this video to see what kind of conversations he could get started, and it seems to have worked. cause, as you can see, I fell for it. Dang you Pable. The secrets sauce to a successful monetized youtube channel is the engagement. And as I can see now, I am engaged. I hope my comment helps pablo with his venture. but if I was you, i would still study the grammar like nobodys business. i like the español en marcha series. word of advice, buy the workbooks, not the textbooks. the textbooks require audio, video, and all kinds of group participation, that if you are studying on your own, it doesnt work. but each textbook has an accompanying workbook thats made for single person practice. I wasted 50 euros on textbooks, which are fine if i go back to the class, but i'm mostly a self studier, so the matching workbooks are cheaper and better imo
Que guay!
I studied French for 20 years using grammar books. I cannot speak French nor can I understand it unless spoken very, very slowly or if it’s written down. I used Pablos model to learn Spanish and I am listening to Spanish podcasts after 150 hours of his videos. I also used the Hugo Spanish in 3 months series and they actively prevented me from learning Spanish because I couldn’t stop doing grammar in my head which was a constant break on learning. I think we often have a sunk cost fallacy that doesn’t want us to accept that there was always a more effective way. I personally use pablos method now because it’s the most effective, it’s the method backed up by the research, and it’s the method we used to learn our first language.
It took you 30 years to start reaching competency in Spanish?
I'm already old - I don't have 30 years left
So no, I won't be taking your advice
I've been doing CI in Spanish and without feeling like I've "studied" Spanish at all I can have conversations and watch movies in Spanish already. It's a lot of fun.
I'll save the money on classes and books and just keep doing what I'm doing.
You mentioned that you still have trouble with listening, which I think is really telling. Traditional methods focus on output, but how can you have an enjoyable conversation with someone if you can't understand what they're saying?
Listening before speaking makes logical sense, just as reading comes before writing. Which makes me think how crazy it is that schools force children to write when they can barely read. Then children hate writing. Sorry, that's nothing to do with your post - it just occurred to me. 😁
I've used Dreaming Spanish for exactly 217 days (860 hours) and can also read the paper, read a book, signs and watch TV etc, i do this every day together with netflix shows in Spanish and have no trouble with listening comprehension, I understand native Spanish people just fine. I havn't studied grammar, it really isn't needed - for input at least.
Pero Pablo, mi problema es que quizás no necesito la gramática para leer una oración pero si trato de hablar o escribir sin gramática o con mala gramática, nadie me entiende y sueno como tonto!
leer un libro que nunca leíste pero uno que quieras. Cuando encuentras algo que suena complejo o que no entiendes bien; buscas la gramática con el contexto. estudiar gramática sin contexto, sin razón es muy aburrido y por eso menos útil.
Estoy aprendiendo coreano y tienes razón cuanto más palabras sabes más comprendes el input, pero nose que nivel tienes de japones y los otros idiomas que dices, pero para mi la gramática no hay que estudiarla, sino consultarla y entender las notas gramaticales como dice un poliglota famoso, y sí tiene sentido, porque el coreano por ejemplo tiene particulas y terminaciones que se pegan a las palabras, porque vas a estar miles de horas, si puedes consultar esas cosas mientras consumes input y ya acostumbrarse a verlas y escucharlas y ya sabes su significado automáticamente asi como las palabras y ! El contexto puede aplicar a idiomas como ingles, o similares al tuyo al principio, pero en otros tan diferentes es más difícil sin tener como funciona la gramática basica por lo menos. Ahora mismo mi comprensión del coreano esta aumentando notablemente, y como si mi cerebro uniera automáticamente muchas frases que escucho gracias a esto y también como suena, entonación etc. ya esta en mi cabeza!!
How about learning the most common used verbs (around 200-300) in all tenses?
Para mi, necesito aprender la gramática o no voy a hablar correctamente. Entiendo todo cuando escucho los hispanohablantes nativos, pero cuando probar a hablar o escribir, hago muchos errores. Es mas facil para mi a leer las reglas y todavia usar Dreaming Spanish
I think Pablo is a little extreme. Comprehensible Input is a legitimate method that works really well. And Dreaming Spanish is a great source of CI. However, learning grammar is also helpful in understanding what the hell is going on in Spanish. It's definitely a good idea to learn the verb conjugations, the pronouns (me,te,se,nos,le,la,lo etc.) and to understand what the hell the subjunctive mood is exactly.
Without actually studying these things, you'll spend a long time completely confused while watching Dreaming Spanish.
The other problem with comprehensible input is that watching videos all the time can get quite tedious. Most people aren't going to watch 500 hours of Spanish content before they even try speaking, writing or reading. It's simply too tedious and boring for 99% of people.
Comprehensible Input is a great learning method, but there's no need to be so strict about sticking to it. Nothing wrong with getting a bit of variety with other methods too. For me, Comprehensible Input should make up around 50% of your overall language studies.
❤👏👏👏👏
😎😎😎
Man can you scream !! Scared the heck out of me in your acting reel on your channel !!!!😵😉 Well done !
I don’t like grammar much. English is my second language, and I’m at a level 1 in Spanish. However, I think some grammar is great. That said, I believe Dreaming Spanish is a got send!
I have studied so much spanish grammar before using CI. I have that problem Pablo talks about where I am analyzing every word or phrase. When I hear "para que" my analyzer starts everytime. It's so hard to not analyze. Any ideas on how I can make that stop, or it it too late?
If you can take a week or two to just overload on Spanish, you should begin to get out of analysing mode. Watch a bunch of native stuff and keep podcasts/radio on in the background and when doing things. When you’re watching Dreaming Spanish, or even native media boost the speed up to at least 1.5x. It will be too much Spanish and too fast for you to be analysing. After a while you can go back to normal and should find your grammar study has less of a hold on you! Good luck!🤞
More input, it just goes away eventually. I'm at 880 hours, and I rarely translate conciously or subconciously any longer.
I think a little bit of grammar study can help in the very beginning. I never took any Spanish in school, but quite a bit of Italian and a little French neither of which I remember at all. Im now 110 hours into DS and am 100% on board with CI for learning but I think just knowing about the concepts of adjectives changing endings to match subjects or verb ending changes and irregular verbs has helped speed up my learning a lot. I agree on not memorizing conjugation tables or anything like that but simply familiarizing yourself a bit with these concepts that dont exist in english makes things easier.
En cuanto vi la cara de Pablo hice el click! Hace tiempo 👌🏿
Pablo por favor escribe el enlace donde aprendiste japonés hablado.
C'est fou, je comprends. Je voulais écouter cette vidéo, mais bien sûr, elle est en espagnol. Je ne parle pas espagnol mais j'étudie le français. J'ai étudié un peu l'espagnol à l'école il y a 15 ans. J'ai 26 ans. Je l'ai regardée sans les sous-titres. C'est incroyable ce qu'on peut comprendre grâce à la connaissance d'autres langues romanes.
Una pregunta, ¿tú qué idiomas has aprendido? Saludos!
I've foolishly been trying to do intensive reading instead of extensive. Just picked my book back up after almost a week without touching it and read 2 pages without stopping to look anything up. So much more fun!
Update: I read about 30 pages yesterday and it turns out I really didn't need to be looking things up to understand the vast majority of what was happening in the story. Whoops.
Input comprehensible método funciona bueno.
Hola Pablo queria preguntarte como hacer output puedo entender Ingles pero Al momento de hablar soy como UN niño aveces no me sale las palabras gracias por Tus videos
There's no harm in reading a Spanish grammar book; but in my opinion, the most important factor in learning a language is to STAY MOTIVATED.... do whatever you can to stay engaged with the language; and it's not easy to stay motivated if you're only reading a grammar book.
vale
So I have been doing comprehensible input for a while and it’s not sticking with me. I suck at speak and putting sentences together when speaking Spanish. Maybe because I’m a truck driver and I work 10-14 hour days my input is passive and not active. Idk if that makes a big difference. I do about 2-3 hours of input while I’m on the road. Tutoring once or twice a week and at least 30 minutes a day of something.
I’m about 800 hours in and tested at B1 but idk how. I feel like I don’t know anything because I’m always in Latin America and can’t even fully converse with the people. Just very basic small talk and it seems like it’s the same stuff over and over. They say learn the stuff you’re interested in but that’s never the basis of my convos. Any suggestions? Reading more, writing?
Oh and my biggest problem is I have been reliant on the translator and idk how to break that habit. People want quick responses when they write alot and I can’t keep up.
At 800 hours you should be able to understand a lot more than you can speak. Especially if the input was comprehensible and you were paying attention and not just passively having it on in the background while you were focusing on something else. I’m at 1100 hours and listen 70% while driving also. I started speaking practice nearer to 900 hours with an italki tutor and after a rough start things started going well. I still struggle a little in the sense it is still a bit of an effort but not as much as before. I have about 30 hours of conversation practice. My tutor is really impressed with my level of comprehension and speaking skills and has even started using comprehensible input to help with her Italian. So my advice is keep going and try practicing speaking in a less stressful situation such as a one on one class or intercambio. Just like learning to drive you don’t start in fast moving traffic. Trust me this thing works and you are nearly there so don’t worry and don’t give up
Creo que tienes razon
La primera frase es un tanto traumática. Ya la segunda es un poco más suave y graciosa, pero no entiendo pues no sé quién es el personage Carlitos que hace con que la frase "Niño muerde el pero" no sea sorprendente? Pienso que la cultura hace parte del contexto, pues saber quién es el personage Carlitos hace parte del contexto. Quiero decir que los niños también muerden, así la frase "niño muerde" también tiene sentido. El español tiene conjugación.
En mi experiencia, es util mirar las reglas gramatica. No estudiar. Solo mirar. Expocision a las reglas mi aiuda los notar en input comprehensible. Quando noto mas cosas aprendo mas. Sorry for the bad Spanish - I'm only at 100 hours of input. But my point is that just a little bit of exposure makes input more effective for me. After scanning a conjugation table for the past tense once I started noticing the forms more, which helps me to internalize them. But I don't "study" the rules - I agree that that isn't effective for me.
He said what you have done is put the horse before the cart 🌚you are not meant to notice you are meant to absorb,and how are you able to spell in Spanish after 100 hours of listening you are cheating 🤡
@@liambyrne591 I'm able to spell after 100 hours because I speak French and some Italian in addition to studying Latin once upon a time. But I won't pretend that I didn't check my spelling (and one word) before posting.
I am still confused who "gustar" who, what "faltar" what, but I have been learning "happily" with the input comprehension method. I wonder if I can "naturally" understand the direct and indirect object in the near future. I have passed the 700 hours mark, but grammar is still a confusing mess right now. Probably another 300 hours will do the trick. LOL.
Apparently it’ll all fall into place with enough exposure and I agree BUT imo not all hours are made equal! 700 hours for one may take 11,000 for another. Personally reading a short article about gustar being pleasing to something such as me gusta - it’s pleasing to me or a ella no le gusto - she doesn’t like me - is a shortcut to hearing this via input so many times that I intuitively know how it works-it also means I instinctively can tell when other verbs are working in the same way, no me importa - it isn’t important to me or me faltan dos -Two are lacking/missing to me
* 1100 hours (not 11,000 lol)
You shouldn't even be thinking of these grammar terms, they might just make you more confused and distracted while listening
Pero dónde está Alma??? La extrañamos mucho!!!
se casó con un hombre en kongo y abrieron una pizzería en la capital Kinshasa
@@peterm13 I actually understood this and I'm at 15 hours. I know it's easy but still.
Jajaja tan al azar!
Genius!
Entiendo que por entender vocabulario es más importante. Pero me párese que gramática es importante para hablar.
Grammar is a model. All models are wrong, but some are useful.
Language is built from the bottom up. Our brain first identifies words and chunks, then notices patterns in those chunks, then extrapolates the patterns.
The abstract, top-down, mathematical systems of rules in textbooks don't actually exist in acquired language. You can tie a post to a tree to help it grow straight (maybe) but it's not what makes the tree grow and it never becomes part of the tree.
I have a video all about this on my channel. But don't take it from me, take it from Jackendoff, VanPatten, Lakoff, Piantadosi...
Todo idioma fica mais fácil quando se convive com nativos do idioma em questão!
amigo, sabes que eres Donkey Kong? El jefe de la selva! jaja gracias por todo :)
Que fresco
¿Si fueras profesor de español en una escuela secundaria, enseñarías la gramática?
En los colegios, no tienen remedio. Tienen que enseñarlos con los libros de gramática.
@@Davey441 yo soy profesora, y a mi me dan autonomía. He estado usando puro Comprehensible Input con buenos resultados. Sin embargo, me preocupa que les falte en la universidad.
I believe the people who doubt the CI method and are fixated on learning grammar only feel that way because they've been told so or lose patience trying to rush to speak. We have so many examples on why CI works best. All the verbs and grammar rules that you're taught in the beginning are just now starting to make sense for me. It felt so forced trying to learn estar, ser, pronouns, etc on Day 1.
Now I understand why some native Spanish speakers who move to the US and are forced to learn quickly make certain grammatical errors because they're basically translating in their mind or they want to make sense of some of the rules they've learned. The same goes for us Spanish learners as well. The people who I've encountered who've started to speak from the beginning and just HAVE to study grammar struggle to speak or sound silly. It's almost robotic.
You really just have to be patient and spend the time with CI. I've immersed for about 1000 and a little over a year. It really helps if you spend at LEAST 2-3 hours a day. I still have a lot to learn but I understand sooooo much better now.
On the flip side, I find that those who have never studied grammar often don’t understand that they are saying things incorrectly and have no way of coming to this realization because nobody corrects them on it. I’m talking about native Spanish speakers who have been in the US for a long, long time and received enormous amounts of input. They’ve been saying things the wrong way for so long I’m afraid their errors have fossilized.
@@Oneforall86 true, however that is not what this video or method is about. He never said to NOT study grammar, but don't focus on it in the early stages. Also, the method encourages lots of reading later on as well.
Once you get to a decent level of C.I that you understand, starting reading books ,and learn grammar and structure that way, most people are brainwashed with grammar books.
Sea lo sea mi nivel de español, si me surge un video de mi pablito cagando en la gramática, lo veo
🙌🏻
好久不见！❤❤❤
Quien mató a Sara?
El mayordomo.
We all know the book is the duo lingo owl
I agree that you shouldn't study grammar if you don't like to. ALSO - you shouldn't study grammar UNTIL you've used pure input to get to an intermediate level and started graded readers.
I actually like studying grammar NOW - after 400 hours of pure input and starting to read. NOW studying grammar adds excitement to the listening and reading because I can see the grammar in use and recognize what's going on. BEFORE you have a few hundred hours of input, I agree that grammar is not useful. You're trying to learn things without context and it isn't fun like the pure input. If you think of a native speakers journey, none of us learned any grammar BEFORE we could comprehend the language and speak. I think WHEN you learn grammar is important and you should only learn it if you LIKE studying grammar. It is definitely speeding up my learning now. Picking up tense and third person by ear will happen eventually with pure input but I can speed that up with a small amount of grammar study. Grammar is not the problem. It's timing and applying the "no grammar" rule to all learners.
I see it the other way around. Studying *basic* grammar helps set an initial foundation so you can later start input. Advanced grammar could be a supplement like you said… but i wouldn’t delve deep into grammar after 100s of hours of input… i guess if that works for you
@@nomirevideoseninglesporfav1364 I tried the other way around. I wish it would have worked but you don't have any context for these rules because you can't even understand basic phrases. Different strokes for different folks I guess. This is just what is working for me.
Yea thats why I learn basic sentences and vocab along with it. The input starts from the beginning, but the grammar supplement is not something I stick with the whole time. Its just to give some initial context for the learning process
Sorry Pablo but you failed to convince me on this one. Ofcourse you don't need to study grammar to reach an intermediate level in a language or have basic conversations. But grammar is important to achieve advanced levels and dominate the language.
I speak French at a near-native level of fluency, and studying grammar didn't hurt my efforts whatsoever.
Now I'm learning Spanish and studying grammar has already helped me overcome one of my biggest huddles, the past tense. Just by learning the past tense patterns, I'm able to make sentences with verbs I've never used before.
So, I'll continue learning Spanish with Comprehensible Input and Grammar 😊
Muchas gracias a ti y a todo el equipo por sus buen trabajo!
Gramática es no importante. Nadie gustar estudiando.😂
Gramática no es importante...not...es no importante...bad grammar!...grammar is important.
I have been watching a series that shows a guy taking Spanish lessons. So, there are grammar lessons, but they are entirely in Spanish.
And the name of this is what
@@liambyrne591Se llama Español Sí. Es en You Tube.
@@liambyrne591 "español sí" is the name. I don't know why You tube deleted my reply. It's on you tube.
Language schools, Universities, International Affairs, Academies for translators and interpreters. Are these all for nothing?
I wouldn't bite that dog!!!! 😡😡😡🤬
Pablo's arguments are interesting but suggest an either/or situation. Rarely in life do we do only one thing. Además, it assumes that we have an endless supply of perfectly-sequenced input. Three levels (beginner, intermediate, advanced) is fairly coarse granularity.
Regardless, lots of smart people can try to convince each other by explanation or rationalization. Show me the data. Does the literature show that spending time focusing on grammar harms language acquisition? Advocates of learning grammar don't assert that comprehensible input is unnecessary... just insufficient.
I disagree. Knowing the grammar means you understand the structure and how it all fits together, even if you don't know every word yet. For example, because I know French, I look at a Spanish sentence and already the format looks familiar, I just to look up a word for vocabulary, and the meaning of the sentence will fall into place by itself.
When you're speaking in your native language do you think about the grammar, constructions and rules? Or do you just speak and understand it automatically? Did you acquire your native language from grammar books? What about your accent in your language? How did you acquire that? Was it from grammar books or acquisition?
@@Davey441 Native language is different; you learn it from birth and it's completely different process. However, even with children, parents and teachers correct their grammar from time to time, and more complex grammar is taught in schools so you can speak properly as an adult later on.
@@ardalan8103 No, there is no difference. Input is input. Infants acquire their native language through input. Adults can acquire a second language the same way. More complex grammar? You can't transfer grammar from paper into to speaking or understanding. Do you understand what language acquisition means?
Parents do correct their children, that's true. When they get corrected it's corrected with input isn't it? Infants will make mistakes and the parents will say to them aloud the correct way right? Again, it's input.
@@Davey441 then taking a grammar class is considered input too. But he’s making a distinction here; his definition of input is not the same as yours. His is just consuming context and listening and watching. But when you work with a teacher, you will get your mistakes corrected. Also who says grammar cannot be transferred from paper to speaking?! That’s how you learn how to form complex sentences! I speak 3 languages. I know a thing or two about language acquisition. You learn the rules of grammar, you practice them through input and speaking. It’s not a zero sum game
@@ardalan8103 Taking a grammar class is classed as conscious learning. Acquiring a language through input is unconscious acquisition. You really don't know the difference do you?
There is no problem getting corrected but being corrected vocally is input isn't it. Through repetition the corrections are made and then acquired. If you try to learn using the grammar route all you're doing is trying to memorize the grammar. Memorization is not acquiring a language. If you were listening to the grammar constructions and rules you'll obviously acquire some grammar through input but how long do you think it's going to take to acquire all grammar and rules? How many years have you got?
You need to listen to a tremendous amount of comprehensible input to acquire a language. You'll also need to eventually practice speaking. When you have acquired a high level you could practice grammar if you desired I lived in Spain for a while and I can tell you that most of the students in the schools can hardly string a sentence together or understand spoken English. If you give them a grammar sheet, they'll probably be able to do it but it's a different story when they speak or try to understand. Why is that? It's because all they do in the schools is work with the grammar books. They don't acquire the language through input/output.
On the other side. If you talk to a random person in Spain who is from Romania or Russia. They'll able to speak near fluent, but if you ask them to explain a grammatical term or rule in Spanish, they 'll look at you and say ''Que dices chaval? '' They can't explain the grammar term but yet they speak and understand Spanish without a problem. Why is that? Input and output Ardalan, no grammar or rules were involved.
If the grammar route works for you, then go with it. Instead of trying to pick holes in other people's methods, why don't you try this method yourself? Give it a try and then you'll see if it works or not.
Hola Pablo: Lo siento mucho, pero yo no estoy de acuerdo con el concepto tuyo. El vocabulario de un lenguaje es importante, pero, para mí la gramática es importante también. En una conversación si no conoces las reglas de la gramática, pero conoces las palabras, no suenas bien. Por eso, yo creo que ambos partes son muy importantes: las palabras y las reglas de la gramática.
That’s not what he’s saying. Of course grammar matters, it’s just not supposed to be “studied”. You will learn it through comprehensible input, just like you did with your native language.
No estoy de acuerdo. Para mí es importante aprender la gramática. No creo que sea posible aprenderla de paso cuando estás hablando o leyendo algo.
@@blackrider9207 Then how did you learn your native language?
@@BigNeffyPeople in the pure CI school of thought vastly downplay the role of eductation in native language acquisition. Have you tried to speak to a 3-5 year old? These are people who have something like 20,000 hours of CI under their belt.
Children learn grammar in school from ages 5-17 and they get corrections before then.
I'm a firm believer that CI should be 90% of what you do. But we're adults. We can speed the process up a bit through focused study here and there. Yes, the first dozen times you encounter a grammar point that you studied, you'll accidentally think about it and probably miss other parts of the sentence. Then after 50 or so times it will become more fluid. Then it will be something you comprehend without thought.
But if you never studied it, you'll encounter it 100 times and still not have that first glimmer of understanding.
Doing small amounts of grammar study makes more content more comprehensible more quickly. It turbo charges CI. We don't have to learn like we are babies. We don't have to have the verbal skills of a 4-year-old after 20,000 hours of CI.
(And to reiterate: OF COURSE native speakers study grammar of their native language. I can think of hundreds of examples of things I didn't know/understand, even at age 10+ until a teacher/adult pointed it out to me.)
@@followtheenglishapparently they were reading grammar books at 4 years old
First of all, not sure why this video is so long; you could've made your points in a more concise and efficient way. You're just rambling on and on for 24 minutes in different locations and it's hard to keep track of what you're trying to say. A good educator should know how to express their ideas in a clear and concise way.
Secondly, I completely disagree with you. While focusing solely on grammar is not a good practice, grammar is a vital PART of language learning. A very simple example (which has happened to me many times as I'm learning Spanish): assume I know the words "llover" and "ir de picnic" but I don't know the conjugations of these verbs. So if I wanted to say "if it hadn't been raining, we would've gone on a picnic", I wouldn't know how to say it. And if I heard "Si no hubiera estado lloviendo, habríamos ido de picnic.", I wouldn't know what they're talking about. How would I know that "ido" comes from "ir"? Or that they're talking about a situation in the past? Maybe it's still raining today and they are saying "if it weren't raining today, we would go on a picnic". Only if I know grammar I can understand these.
Another example is words that sound similar but are different, for example "hacer" and "a ser". Or the word "se" that comes in many forms: "se lo di", "no sé nadar" and "¡Sé honesto!". In a fast conversation, it is very confusing to understand what they're actually saying if you don't know the difference between these similar-sounding words from a grammatical point of view.
I feel like videos like this are just click bait and don't really offer any good advice for language learners. 👎
I don't agree. With all the words you'll know, your foreign language would look like primitive & Tarzan(ish) -I don't know whether there is such a word. Learning rules will speed up the process.
Me learned English no grammar it fine.
@@stevenc123 It is evident for me. Without knowing "padejes" in Russian, without learning subjunctives or tenses in Spanish "by rules", one has to spend countless hours of listening with little progress.
Completely depends on the person. If you are the type of person who enjoyed sitting through English class (or whatever your native language is) then traditional grammar learning is definitely faster. But it doesn't do any good for the people who could barely sit through class without thinking about the weekend (which is probably most people). Also, you aren't just learning random words, you are learning them in the context of a story. There are native speakers of all languages who literally know absolutely nothing about grammar and they communicate just fine.
@@bradcofo We are talking about "efficiency" here though, not the subjective measurement of personal preferences. So I don't think it depends on the person. If someone is demotivated and/or lazy or unwilling to endure a little discomfort in the pursuit of their language learning goals, then they are certainly entitled to sacrifice efficiency for enjoyability by employing a method which satisfies their peculiar personal preferences. That's fine of course.
The issue I think is that comprehensible input enthusiasts don't like to admit that their method is, in light of the existing body of evidence and research, a solely personal and subjective preference and not an objectively superior method of language learning. It's too often presented as the latter.
Why tarzanish. Is your English tarzanish? Are you saying all English people,speak like Tarzan unless they study an English language a level? When is the last time you had to stop a conversation in English with another English person because you couldn’t remember how to use the English pluperfect subjunctive? Grammar is for people who like to study languages. It isn/t of any effectiveness in learning to speak a language. The reason I know this is there are 8 billion people speaking languages in the world and every one learned their first language without a grammar class. That’s a lot of evidence.
Grammar is extremely important and is the key to understanding how the language functions. Only idiots say that grammar is overestimated or boring
yeah it can slow down comprehension short term but in the end you definitely need it.
You really didn't understand the video at all, maybe more input would help.
@@Muppetkeeper i think he understood it, just disagreed
@@goosejuice27 Maybe if they had an argument other than just calling someone an idiot, people might listen.
@@Muppetkeeper yeah i agree but i think he understands the video, just wont actually think about the argument the video is making
Todo esto no tiene sentido¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Me parece click 🪤