The Time a Dog (Almost) Became a Catholic Saint: The Tale of Guinefort
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- čas přidán 25. 06. 2024
- Everybody loves dogs, but have you ever prayed to one? Join me as we explore the curious case of “Saint” Guinefort, the enigmatic (and apparently charismatic) 13th Century French greyhound.
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For those interested in another unique animal character from the Middle Ages, I recommend checking out my video on Reynard the Fox, the archetypal trickster of medieval European folklore:
• The Ancient Trickster ...
My debut novel, Winter Without End, is now available for purchase from Fenris Publishing in both ebook and paperback format:
www.fenrispublishing.com/winter
A post-apocalyptic story told through the eyes of a dog, Winter Without End follows a Labrador retriever who, after being abandoned by his human family in the aftermath of a devastating pandemic, makes an uneasy alliance with a wounded wolf in order to survive.
Additionally, one of my stories, “Mark of the Stranger,” was recently published in the anthropomorphic history anthology “When the World Was Young,” available here:
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To be entirely fair, all dogs are saints so far as I'm concerned.
I like to believe the dog actually did become a saint and when all the people who denied his sainthood died and went to heaven they were in complete shock to see him sitting next to God getting head pats from him
Sorry to break you off, but animals don't really have rational and immortal souls as humans have in Catholic theology
As a Catholic I appreciate the respect you paid to the material but still being able to inject it with humour.
EEEEEY! ST GUINEFORT! Illegal saints are my favorite thing ever, and this good boy even more. Gonna share this on my Tumblr for Dog Saint Monday.
14:00 glad you mentioned Gelert, as someone who grew up being royally pissed off at Llywelyn Fawr for killing The Ultimate Good Boy, I got some serious deja vu from the tale of Guinefort.
I suppose at least this time the Welsh myth was reproduced faithfully, nobody stuck their wife-stealing OCs into it or anything.
Folk saints are such a cool cultural thing! My favorite is Catherine of Aragon (and I hope she gets canonized for real someday) but I didn't know a lot about "Saint" Guinefort going in, so this was a fascinating ride! At the risk of sounding cliche, he sounds like a very good boy.
It would've been a power move from the church to say "You form your own church to divorce your wife? Okay, we canonize your ex" XD
@@krankarvolund7771 Make her the patron saint of marriage counselors for extra bonus points!
But FR if Thomas More can get canonized for saying "hey henry maybe don't divorce your wife" and then getting his head chopped off for it (a gross oversimplification but I digress), I feel like Catherine's earned her right to be canonized for saying "Hey, you can't divorce me, our marriage is 100% valid" and then getting dismissed from court and banned from ever seeing her daughter again.
@@caitlinsnowfrost8244 The main difference being that Thomas Moore was a man and a clergy member, Catherine was a woman :D
@@krankarvolund7771 Very true, but women have definitely been made saints for less grandiose acts!
@@krankarvolund7771 Thomas More (not to be confused with Thomas Moore) was a civil lawyer, and not a member of the clergy. Were you perhaps mixing him up with John Fisher?
Always a good day when a new Cardinal West video pops up.
Instructions unclear, placed a baby under a dog to cure my depression.
I finally finished reading Winter Without End. Overall, I liked it! I kind of wish Sierra had more dialogue, but it makes sense that wolves just aren't much for idle chatter. In my mind's eye, I imagined the scenes looking like a classic animated film. It made me wonder what it would be like if some studio actually made an adaptation. I bet Cartoon Saloon could do a good job of it, if they were ever so inclined!
OMG yes: Cartoon Saloon would be perfect! The book is amazing- one of the best i ever read with the same feel as Call of the wild and Watership Down or Animals of farthing wood.
another really interesting video that specifically goes into how animals were seen in medieval life and how that changed is historia civilis’s video on animal trials. and how animals were put on trial since at least the ancient greeks and how domesticated animals were seen as part of the wider commune, had moral agency, and could be judged for wrongdoings like people, in a cosmic idea of due. and this was somerhing that lasted into the medieval era. Where there was even an interesting idea of “ecclesiastical” and “secular” animal crimes.
where livestock were considered to fall under the community and thus went under secular law in case of a stampede or some other percieved wrongdoing, while wild animals went under ecclesiastical court proceedings as “acts of god/the devil” outside of the community.
so while the “object” view isnt wrong, there seems to be a broader sense of “cosmic order and duty”. and in fact, a more clinical depersonalization occured with the enlightenment where this sort of classification seemed superstitious and a conception of animals demoralized as “machines that only follow the disposition of their organs” came more into vogue, with them considered to be more amoral and and not liable to be put on trial.
Interesting, I'll have to check that video out!
Fascinating video! I never heard about St. Guinefort until now. It's awful that the owner didn't see the dead snake until after he assumed the worst and killed his own dog. It's crazy how Guinefort's death shared parallels to Gelert's.
I always look forward to seeing more content from you. Keep up the great work!
I like the new editing style, and I hope you do more like this, both in terms of the content and the style, keep up the great work
Reminds me of what Tsume said to Kiba when they first met, "Don't be so quick to kill."
I knew a little about St. Guinefort. But your research blew it out of the water. Beautiful job! I’d love a rebirth of venerating St. Guinefort.
This is such a wild, interesting story! History is amazing. I live in France and not that far from where this all happened.
I live not far from Gelert's shrine. Fascinating to learn the long history his tale comes from
We've found him, gents. The goodest boi.
Absolutely phenomenal job on this one :) Love the way you've edited everything. I'm always fascinated by how fundamentally intertwined humans and dogs are. Shit I mean, we've had dogs longer than agriculture. I remember hearing the Gelert story when I was younger, and it absolutely broke my heart. It makes a lot of sense to me that it's a recurring motif, rather than a singular story. Can't wait for the next one :)
Ironic that it was one of the "Hounds of the Lord" (Domini Canes), as they were sometimes jokingly called, that tried to end this dog's veneration
12:30 when I first heard that story I legit started tearing up
Interestingly I've heard the phrase "to petition to" in reference to prayers naming particular saints
Instantly my favorite saint!
Interesting. Were the conclusions of your research your own, or somebody else's?
Also, I love that bit with the "lord's hound" mythological type. A lesser researcher wouldn't know about mythological types.
My conclusions were based on a mix of Jean-Claude Schmitt's publications on the subject, and my own general knowledge of Christian theology and history.
@@CardinalWest I'm not sure how appreciated this tidbit could be to this crowd, but the Dominicans, whom you mentioned Stephen of Bourbon to be a member of, were nicknamed "Hounds of the Lord".
Gotta be the most Cardinal West Cardinal West video
Just the right mix of laughs and learning.
wonderful video as always, thank you for sharing the tale of the goodest doggo.
7:57 I SAW THIS PAINTING AT THE MET A FEW MONTHS AGO!
Your videos are superb, I hope they bring you great success. Your analysis of xenofiction has introduced me to so many new things to find interest in.
You're a great content creator, keep up the good work👍
Is there a version of the faithful hound where they don’t kill the dog because the reveal intervenes with the killing?
By that I mean, if there a version of the story where the child cries before the sword would strike & the dog would unveil the child from the blanket, wagging its tail & whining?
9:35 is one of the funniest visual jokes I seen in a while. Had my chihuahua on my lap and woke him up when I fell out 🤣 Also, thanks for citing sources, this former journalist appreciates it a lot.
Would be cool to see you review Isle of Dogs
This sounds like a puppet history episode! I think you covered it really well, I really like your editing style
Bruh all those villages are super close to where I live how did I not knew about it???
Great timing, I just got your book delivered! It looks great, feels nice in my hands, and I'm excited to start reading it. I glimpsed the first page of the chapter and the sentences already look promising. It'll be fun seeing if you really are much better than that bird fiction book you critiqued ;)
This is such a great video! Keep up the good work!
the editing and like ,, tone (?) of this video is so so good i love your other writing / editing / delivery style but this one’s reallll fun
As a furry and uni religion student, this is made my day
furry cringe
Awesome video, thoroughly enjoyed it.
awesome video as always
those car seat headrest references were jumpscares
great video though!
So interesting! I love your videos and this was a cool editing style for it too :)
Awesome, great video!
Interestingly in Chile people have depicted a dog in a similar way. La Negro Matapacos (literally, "the Black Cop-Killer") was one of the street dogs known for protecting and siding with Chilean civilian protestors. He died a few years ago and is still beloved.
She story is exactly like an Indian tale I've heard about a mongoose!
To play a Christian's advocate here: Christianity is not a "sect" of an Abrahamic religion. From the perspective of Christianity, it is a continuation of Judaism, and Islam is a heretical offshoot. And animals aren't considered objects, they are living beings, though they do not have the same status as humans. Humans are essentially the "priests" of the world, the mediators between the physical world of plants and animals and the spiritual world. Humans are considered to be both animals and spirits at the same time. All of creation is made by God and therefore it is good, and humanity is meant to be a failthful steward of it and care for it as a gardener cares for a garden. A fine mess we've made of it indeed, but that's another matter. But animals are not there merely to exploit without remorse. We are expected to be good stewards, not selfish exploiters.
Most sects of any belief don't view themselves as a sect but as the legitimate continuity. The perspective of Christianity is as irrelevant to classification as the perspective of Islam or Judaism.
🤲🏼👑
@user-mp2jk4bp1e That's why it's important to investigate the validity of one's beliefs. A lot of people think religion is just blind faith, when in reality we should be testing the things we believe. As a Christian my faith has gotten stronger as I discover more about things like fulfilled prophesy, the historical accuracy of the new testament, and the cohesion of the Bible as a whole. I still have questions sure, but that's not a bad thing. Faith just means believing when you don't have all the answers
I’m actually learning about this in college right now! It’s a Christian Tradition class and we’re going over doctrine and historical Catholicism vs our understanding of modern Christianity.
Very well said as far as humanity’s relationship to animals. The start of the Bible says that all of God’s creation is “good” and humanity’s job in a perfect world was to steward and serve the land and animals.
Well put
I love the Animal Crossing music in the background
To be precise, being burned at the stake was not a punishment for heresy, it was a punishment for relapsing, meaning returning to heresy. If you were caught once in heresy and condemned, you got a punishment, like a fine, corporal punishment, etc... and you were supposed to become a good christian. But if you were caught again, then you were a lost cause and condemned to be burned.
Of course, if they want you to burn, you'll burn even if it's the first trial, that's what happen to Jeanne d'Arc, she was captured, accused of divers crimes from listening to God rather than the church, to wearing men's clothes and quitting her parent's house without their permission. And she was declared relapse, despite this trial being her first, because they just wanted to kill her ^^
Also the Spanish Inquisition is famous, because it was very organized, with very zealous inquistors specialized in hunting jews and muslims. Heretics too, but the main goal was to find jews or muslims who said they were christians, but continued to celebrate their religion privately, and the inquisitors were particulary zealous because they were paid by the sale of the posessions of the persons they condemned XD
nice video buddy
Thanks so much!
"Yo Dawg"
- God
This whole thing sounds like a Powerwolf song.
"The saint dog " - me - "Aaaawwww, thats cute." 20 minutes later - Women leaving their sick kids alone in the woods at night.
I wonder if Negro Matapacos - Black Cop-Killer, a stray dog who joined protests in Chile - could count as a type of folk saint. There are many murals to him and he has become something of a protest symbol since his passing in 2017.
There's also a growing trend/community on tumblr of people venerating Laika as a patron saint of one-way trips/protector of travelers. There is an immense amount of art and poetry dedicated to her, which never fails to make me cry
#bringbackguinefort
Hey I was curious, what is the image you used at 18:20?
As a Christian, we don't normally read "Dominion" As seeing animals as objects, or existing for our use, it means were are responsable for them. If you read the bible, people are often shown as being very wicked for mistreating their animals.
What about the beast of gevaudan
Time for a pilgrimage
14:57 surely you're making up that last one its like the punchline to a joke.
Nope lol - while the Catholic church doesn't recognize Saint Barbara as a patron of the Russian SRS, the Russians themselves adopted her as an unofficial patron saint (similarly to how the US 82nd Airborne Division adopted Saint Michael without church recognition).
21:28
I’m sorry.. I completely expected the Spanish Inquisition clip exactly where you put it.
I wonder if St. Christopher would be pals with Guinefort
(to be read as a gregorian chant
St. Guinefort pray for us sinners
For thou art a good boy
Amen
Pray to Saint. Barbruh
Awww! Stephen's more inspirational than the dog. 🥰 But dog gone it! Poor doggie.
This is also the story of Riki tiki
what song is that at 1:17?
"Can You Feel My Heart" by Bring Me the Horizon
@@CardinalWest thank u!
Just to say that the dechristianisation of France was not a will of the central power, in fact both the left and the right of the Convention (the parliament during the first aprt of the French Revolution) was vocally against persecuting christians. Priests were supposed to pledge allegiance to the Republic, and even that was causing problems, they thought that closing churches and de-priesting priests was going too far and causing too much problems.
The problem was that, it was chaos. Revolutionnary France is not a totalitarian state at all, it's a weak state at war with both half of Europe and half of its own country, and even afraid of the population of its own capital. So when the Commune of Paris decide to close all churches in Paris, the government which is in Paris can just vote a law that will not be respected by the parisians, and hope that they'll remain calm ^^
And it's even worse in cities that are at several days of Paris, they sent delegates, but the delegate have pretty much all powers and can at best be called back and judged. So the atheists delegates persecuted christians, and no one dared to say no, even if legally the central government guaranteed freedom of all religions ^^'
The French revolution was a mistake, that's it
Lutherans and Anglicans are less hostile to the veneration of saints than Calvinist-derived protestant groups.
Didn't I do it for you?
Its Lord Foog the 2st
Burning the dog's remains on a pyre made from the grove sounds a bit too specific - I wonder if there was any link to pagan and anti-pagan activities.
of course it was a borzoi. sweet darlings
that would be cool tho. to help send Tolkien down the path to sainthood :)
While we are different and exalted above animals, we are called to be stewards of the Earth, not just users of resources, but caretakers. I am not Catholic, and, if I’m honest, I don’t see Catholicism as Christianity at all. We can all commune with God, as per speaking in tongues and the voice gifts in church (see 1 Corinthians 14) and don’t need some dead guy in the ground to intercede. Either way, your dissolution of the Christian ideas about animals and the earth is narrow sighted and smells a little bit of heavy biases. This is not meant as an attack, but as a helpful critique. Love your content.
Too bad the Catholic Church is the only real Church founded by Jesus Christ 😎
I'm orthodox but I refuse to believe that Guinefort is not saint
Deus vult
Worshipping in a grove of trees in the woods is such a pagan thing. Sounds like it might be continuation of even older styles of belief
is giving furry
No furries in heaven
"If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went." -- Sean Bean
Religions' beliefs about angels, demons, etc and their free will or corporeal-ness are absolutely all over the place 😵💫 😵💫 😵💫.
Mostly because they are molded to fit their theology and thus make no sense internally, with scripture, or as a thing for God 🧖🤖 to make.
The plain reading of all scriptures make a whole lot more sense than theology, mostly because the scriptures are written by fewer people 🙍🤖.