Superman 2: What Happens When You Change Directors Mid-Movie
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- čas přidán 29. 06. 2022
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SOURCES
Original Superman I Shooting Script
www.capedwonder.com/scripts/s...
Original Superman II Shooting Script:
www.scifiscripts.com/scripts/s...
Scivally, Bruce. Superman on Film, Television, Radio and Broadway. United Kingdom, McFarland, Incorporated, Publishers, 2008.
BETTINSON, Gary. Superman: The Movie: The 40th Anniversary Interviews. United Kingdom, Intellect Books Limited, 2018.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superma...
MUSIC (via Epidemic Sound)
Ludvig Moulin, "The Sledding Hill"
Johannes Bornlof, "Nocturnal Waltz"
Gregory David, "Twin Peaks"
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It wouldn't be the last time a movie with Superman in it would lose its director halfway through filming, is replaced by a different director who brings in a bunch of humor and bad effects, and then a director's cut is released several years later.
@@deathseller1298 I'd have 2 pennies, but isn't it really weird that it happened twice?
Whoa.
@@StickNik -hienz doofensmirtz
It's almost as if modern WB doesn't understand history or something 🤔
Replacing a director half way through does do their original vision any justice… league
I've heard it said that Superman wasn't actually reversing the rotation of the earth, but was actually flying faster than lightspeed to travel back in time. This gave the appearance that the Earth was rotating backwards.
That's what I always assumed. The speed of light is close to the speed it would take to go around the world 7 times a second, which I think is what he did in the film. Actually I can't really remember, it's been a while. I may be completely making this up :P
That's a cool theory, but that begs the question of how did he fly quickly to go forwards in time?
@@comfyMer easy he fly's slower than the speed of light which is still insanely fast, and in the movie it takes him a while to really build his speed up travelling around the Earth many times before the Earth even stops
First time I heard this I felt so stupid
Glad I wasn’t the only one that misunderstood
@@cgrew12 For what it's worth, it might have been worth adding some tiny modicum of explanation, because it seems everyone misunderstood.
I had lunch with Christopher Reeves once in ~91 when i was about 10 with my father on the set of The rose and the jackal. He was awesome and so nice even as a liitle kid looking up to him he was totally cool and down to earth, probably one of the most memorable meals of my life.
Reeve
I heard he didn’t need an airplane once…
If Richard Donner had stayed on 'Superman II', and been allowed to see his vision to completion, I honestly believe it would still be discussed as a top 5 comic book film of all time.
AND John Williams Would of scored Superman 2 with the LSO..NOT Ken Thorne and The London High School Band. Still dreadful today.
Superman 2 was already seen as one of the best Super Hero films until the Hipster Donner movement
I'm NOT sure about that one.. When you look at The Donner Cut you have some really silly scenes in there. A flushing toilet at the FOS like WTF? Lois throwing herself out the window to get Clark to reveal himself was nowhere near as fun as the Niagara falls scene IMO.. Also the whole opening to the TDC IMO is inferior to the Paris Eiffel tower opening that thrilled audiences in 1980. He had roughly 35% or so left to film depending on who you ask.. But I am skeptical..
@@dbreiden83080 The Musical cues are also much better in the Lester Cut. Especially the climax hand crushing.
One of my favorite scenes of the Donner Cut (and one of my favorite Superman scenes) is completely absent in Lester’s version. That is the scene of Superman regaining his powers; there was a sense of vulnerability and humanity in Reeve’s performance and he was clearly giving it his all.
I understood it as he didn't "regain" his powers he went in the box that second time to take the powers from the three bad guys well two bad guys and one bad girl
@@Da_Infamous No, he did regain his powers. What he [Superman] did was change it so the depowering effects emanated outside the chamber, and the inside protected him. This is why he left suddenly during the Metropolis battle. This is also why during the Donner cut the protection field was on, to buy Superman some needed time in case it took him a little longer.
I will say while the memory erase kiss by Lester is silly on paper, but Reeve and Margot were so good together it still worked. Reeve in my opinion saved part 3 with his beautiful acting with his new love interest in Smallville. Reeve can make a bad movie watchable. Most of 2 is by Donner. While never mentioned, The John Williams score is missing in the theatrical release of 2, while Ken Thorne did an admirable job, Williams score from the original is sadly missing in the Lester cut. Cutting corners for Superman was a bad idea. The Salkinds tainted our beloved movie in so many ways.
It's so easy to look at a character as powerful as Superman and say "power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely, obviously someone with that kind of power would be a sociopath." And then you get Homelander, you get Omni Man, you get Dr. Manhattan, you get Zack Snyder's Superman.
But the point of Superman is that he has all this power... and he DOESN'T abuse it. He's NOT evil. He's NOT megalomaniacal. He's NOT a sociopath.
Then the question becomes, why? Who is this guy? Why is he able to be all powerful and still care about humanity? Still take the time to save a little girl's cat from a tree, talk to a teenager to prevent them from committing suicide, and help his elderly mother to repair the roof of her aging barn.
Superman challenges our cynical preconceptions. He's a role model, but he's also the great counter example. He says "with love, compassion, and empathy, even the most powerful man in the world can still use that power for good." He challenges those of us with privilege to use our privilege to lift up the downtrodden. But importantly, he's not perfect. Even Superman makes mistakes, even Superman can't be everywhere at once, even Superman fails, even Superman... is ultimately human.
But that doesn't stop him. He's still going to fly out to save people from burning buildings, fight evil alien monsters, and do what he can to protect the world. Because that's who Superman is, that's what he was created to do. And that's why I love him.
I feel like the early 2010s Man of Steel film was really trying to grasp at these deeper ideas too. Unfortunately, the film is so focused on the tragedy of Kal-El as the lost son of Krypton and the weight of responsibility he feels towards humanity that we completely lose the optimism of his character.
At the end of the day I’d argue that Superman has one more superpower-one embodied in him by his Kryptonian parents and nurtured in him by his Earthly parents: hope. His optimism is as indestructible as he is. This is, again, something that Man of Steel really tries to spell out for us, but we instead get a depressingly cynical story burdened by self-doubt and collateral damage. Sure, it’s fair to give us something realistic and modern, but the whole point of Superman is that he rises above the sorrow and the sadness to be that hope the world needs.
Is that too deep for a musing on a Swiss Army knife of a superhero? Probably. But it makes sense to me.
I would argue that Zack Snyder's Superman is still a character of optimism. Although he had about 8 minutes of fight with the other members of the Justice League, he ultimately worked with them because he cares about Lois and ultimately the fate of Earth.
Dude, you get it. Glad to see among so many Snyder fans, some people still get it.
This might have temporarily restored my Faith in humanity.
Do you go out of your way to avoid ants? In reality we are the ants, it is the only way.
@@damo9961 omg very deep
Lester directed mainly comedies, but don't forget that he made the wonderful Robin and Marian... he was more than capable, the problem with Hollywood movies after the Studio system felt appart, was that producers changed from people that knew and love filmmaking to guys only concerned about money... this is a big issue nowadays, more than ever
Robin and Marian is one of the most beautiful movies ever made
He also made The Three musketeers and The Four Musketeers for the Salkinds, which is why they brought him in to finish Superman II and they had already worked with him
Lester shouldn’t be demonized. He was told what to do by the evil Salkinds. Period.
I will say while the memory erase kiss by Lester is silly on paper, but oddly, Reeve and Margot were so good together it still worked. Some like that better than the rewind version.
Reeve in my opinion saved part 3 with his beautiful acting with his new love interest in Smallville. I can’t remember her name but the actress who played Lana Lane was great with Christopher Reeve. Reeve can make a bad movie watchable. 3 should be unwatchable. I can’t stand the scenes with Richard Pryor. But the moment Christopher Reeve is back I’m smiling again.
Most of 2 is by Donner. While never mentioned, The John Williams score is missing in the theatrical release of 2, while Ken Thorne did an admirable job, Williams score from the original is sadly missing in the Lester cut. It’s so much more powerful.
Cutting corners for Superman was a bad idea. The Salkinds tainted our beloved movie in so many ways.
I watches this in theatres when it came out back in 78. Barely spoke any English and was mesmerized. I don't think it was the special effects, the superpowers, and all that but my young mind loved the goodness inside of Superman that was free of the personal ego. No other film has been able to properly portray that as action now trumps character. There was some elegance and pathos in his character too and Christopher Reeve brought that to life on screen beautifully.
I don't blame Lester for Superman 2 he was brought in to do what he's known for. ( The Blame lies with the Producers.) And his comedic tone in the sequel are pretty funny. It's good that Donner eventually got to release his own version of Superman 2.
I definitely don’t blame him either. Lester shouldn’t be demonized. He was told what to do by the evil Salkinds. Period.
I will say while the memory erase kiss by Lester is silly on paper, but oddly, Reeve and Margot were so good together it still worked. Some like that better than the rewind version.
Reeve in my opinion saved part 3 with his beautiful acting with his new love interest in Smallville. I can’t remember her name but the actress who played Lana Lane was great with Christopher Reeve. Reeve can make a bad movie watchable. 3 should be unwatchable. I can’t stand the scenes with Richard Pryor. But the moment Christopher Reeve is back I’m smiling again.
Most of 2 is by Donner. While never mentioned, The John Williams score is missing in the theatrical release of 2, while Ken Thorne did an admirable job, Williams score from the original is sadly missing in the Lester cut. It’s so much more powerful.
Cutting corners for Superman was a bad idea. The Salkinds tainted our beloved movie in so many ways.
2 turned out great and made a lot of money. So Lester should get credit for his part in the movie.. Superman 3 is really why he gets so much hate because that was his baby from start to finish.. But he def contributed some excellent things to Superman 2..
I thought that when Superman used those abilities, he was using tech from the Fortress. Since he didn't display them outside of that scene, I just thought it was something that he could do in the Fortress as its rightful owner. I was a kid, while even then I subconsciously sought narrative cohesion, it was enough for me.
I thought the same thing. I figured he had to go to the fortress and he found these little gadgets or whatever. As a kid I never thought about it too deep. But yeah. Years later it makes no sense. The Donner cut is my favorite cut.
So did I
The cellophane "S" shield and other weird powers in the Fortress of Solitude never bothered me because...well it was in the Fortress of Solitude. Even as a kid I just figured when Superman went there ahead of time to prepare the molecule chamber he got some other surprises ready and it was all not Superman's powers per se, but Superman utilizing the Fortresses' Kryptonian tech.
Exactly the cellophane s wasn’t his powers it was technology he had in the fortress cause it’s known to have alien technology in it something not really brought up in the 2 movies before it mysteriously disappeared in Superman 3 with no mention of it
This is actually a very good point, but something I would expect batman to do.
100% Exactly.. I think a lot of people didn't pay attention to the plot of the first 2 movies. Superman's father Jor-El didn't park cars for a living. He was a brilliant Kryptonian scientist. Jor-El sent this amazing technology and inventions to earth with his son to increase his chances of survival. Also Superman knew he could NOT defeat Non, Ursa and Zod in Metropolis. That wasn't his plan.. After he fled Metropolis he was counting on Luthor bringing them back to the FOS where he would be waiting for them and have the upper hand..
I always considered the cellophane S to be Kryptonian tech rather than one of Superman abilities.
Agree. I had no problem with it. I thought it was cool!
@@axel4196 Me too.
It's kryptonian saran wrap
I saw Superman the day it opened and still vividly remember the audience reactions. They just went nuts, especially for the humor, and Superman had tons of it: When a bad guy hits Superman with a crowbar and he says, "Bad vibrations?" Or when Lois says, "You've got me? Who's got you?!" Or Lex Luther always insulting Otis: "It's amazing that brain can generate enough power to keep those legs moving." Or my favorite, when Superman was running on the street, looking for private place to change out of his Clark Kent clothes and glances at the small, modern public phone. - What a great movie it was. I think I'll stream it this weekend..
I love both versions of the movie. Even though the Donner Cut has a great epic feel, I still have an attachment to the theatrical version
I also love Superman. I think its super underrated by a lot of people for being "overpowered" but that's such a narrowed vision. Superman its a great imagination of the impacts of living with a semigod alien in our society and the best stories show this in a very appealing way.
What REALLY saddens me is how Supergirl has been botched in recent decades. In two of her more recent media appearances (the CW show and Superman: Unbound) there's a sense of almost rivalry between the cousins. However, if we look at the Silver Age comics, this is not present at all (and unlike the CW's show claiming at one point they aren't both necessarily needed, the 1962 comic where Superman reveals Supergirl to the wider world results in them cheering and loving both of them, each for what they are). Also, Supergirl in the modern stuff is shown to be so gruff and tough like her cousin that she feels like just a female version of him. In the Silver Age though (particularly 1959-1970), Supergirl's personality is clearly different than her cousin. While she's tough when needed, she often has a gentler personality, thinks partially with her heart, and often has a bigger sense of humor than her cousin. This gave Supergirl a completely unique identity despite having similar powers to her cousin. What also made Supergirl different is that unlike Superman, she was almost guaranteed to get the bizarre missions or adventures, which again added humor to her story. If it wasn't so campy, the 1984 Supergirl film would have been close to capturing some of this spirit. She's a particularly fascinating character in that she's an orphan who remembers her birth parents unlike her cousin. Who then could Supergirl bond with and even form an amazing friendship? Batman, because of their similar pains and experiences, despite being worlds apart. Again this is something DC has dropped the ball on (he is distrustful to her in a lot of more recent stuff). I almost moan in frustration, seeing a character of Supergirl's type being wasted for years on end.
@@shinrapresident7010 Haha true but my point was I dont think he is not the overpowered, instead I think thats the great point about superman stories. Maybe I shouldnt have used quotes.
4:13 - I think he flew faster than light, thereby traveling backward in time. The reversed rotation of the Earth was the effect, not the cause.
Ironically the only movie I've worked on that switched director's midway, was Christopher Reeve's last film. Fortunately everyone was dedicated to maintaining his vision.
"Uhhh... what the f*ck is going on here?" is the best opening line to a video essay ever im crying
Lester is a master in his own right: The Musketeer movies, The Beatles Movies, The Knack, Robin & Marian… and the opening slapstick sequence of Superman III is actually amazing. „No Spider-Man or Batman without Donner’s Superman I“? Fair enough. But here’s my Counter Point: „No Thor3, no Guardians and no Mystery Men without Lester‘s Superman 2+3.“
Crap
I totally agree!
In the first Thor movie, he gets knocked unconscious by Darcy Lewis running him over. And then, Jane Foster backs into Thor and knocks him out.
That is a totally different concept of what Stan Lee and Jack Kirby created in the comic books.
No thor3 no guardians and no mystery men? I want to live in this timeline
@@odonnchadha1978 they weren’t that bad
Comedy Thor is bullshit. Fat Thor is worse.
Hard to believe this was made the same year as Empire Strikes Back... It looks like something out of the 60s.
Most of Superman 2 was filmed in 1977. Empire was filmed 2 years later and also looks more modern because it's in a space station environment. The same reason Aliens looks more modern than other 1986 movies. Also superman 2 is the best Superman Movie ever made.
@@alexojideagu 1. no, most of it was re-shot by Richard Lester between 1979 & 1980, and 2. it doesn't look less modern because of the setting, it looks dated because of the blocky old fashion 3-point lighting, the grainy film stock, the cloudy lens filters, the static camerawork, and the echoey telephone-sounding audio. The movie may be fun, but it has absolutely aged poorly on a technical level.
@@JaceDanielFilms The grain was intentional. Superman was always meant to look like a romanticized, Norman Rockwell world. It's meant to look soft and grainy. Not smooth or sharp.
Also, the only reason Empire doesn't look that way is the excessive hideous DNR George slathered over it in the late 90s and changed the color grading to be more "modern".
You can hear how proud he is near the end when talking about his new book 😊
Was so happy to see a new Nerdwriter video after such a long time 😊😊😊
Oh, wow, my YT feed has not been recommending your videos and honestly, I'd thought you'd quit YT. So glad to see you're still here and that I have tons of videos from you I can binge this holiday weekend!
I love Nerdwriter1 videos. They’ve been my creative inspiration for years. Congratulations on your new book, Evan! Looking forward to reading it!
The "cellophane S" and the energy beams actually line up very well with the pre-Crisis Superman comics of that time. During that time, Superman got all kinds of extra and often weird powers, like splitting up in many tiny Supermen, super sense of smell, super ventriloquism, super hypnosis, super mind control, shape shifting, super landscaping, and Superman vision that could give ordinary humans super powers. The energy beams and S fit in with the time.
Hell the original blue Beatle was basically a god
Super Lanscaping?
Come on, isn’t that Captain Mexico’s super power?
Edit: someone commented to me “Superman was an Illegal Alièn too” but it got deleted I guess 😂
@@mro4ts457 super man is an illegal alien
The problem is less that the cellophane S being ridiculous as a power (it is, but as you said, it's in line with the general weirdness of the character), but that it LOOKS ridiculous when used.
@@fakeplaystore7991
It looks like it should be a meme😂
I'm glad to see someone like Nerdwriter take a spin on the famous production story behind the classic Superman movies. This is gonna be good. 😄
Superman 2 is the best. This guy is a jerk Just looking for attention. Pretty sad actually.
I was 4 when my parents took me to watch Superman at a drive-in. It made me a huge comic book need from that day onward.
The whole thing with Justice League was this all over again. But this is not just a DC thing, more a Wb. thing. They did it on a lot of movies, not just the DC stuff.
Great video.
The theatrical version of Superman 2 is an absolute gem!
Yeah; but it kinda ruins the seriousness of the original film. The Donner Version of Superman 2 is much better, and is able to control the seriousness, and also add in the slight humor of the first film.
@@theerealaykay47
The Donner Cut has a toilet flushing in the FOS.. Like for real..
Superman hype - good luck on your book release!
Super hype, man
Been watching old Nerdwriter videos every evening for the last few weeks. Nice surprise to get a brand new one to watch!
RICHARD DONNER, The Godfather of superhero movies. Thanks again and Rest.
I'm very interested in seeing your other takes on Superman. I agree that there is a lot of potential in that concept, it's just that it can be tricky.
Very nice to see a new Nerd Writer video!!!
iv really missed your videos man. glad to see you still post when you can. thank you.
so glad you're back man!!!!!!!
Pretty sure it’s the turning back time by going faster than light that makes the planet rotate backwards (because time is moving backwards), not the other way around.
Still doesn’t avoid the plot hole of the two missiles, though, as the first one he stopped would’ve been reversed as well… also, if he can fly that fast he could just get to both missiles in the first place… you know what, scratch the whole thing, it is broken 😅
Going faster than light doesn't reverse time though.
That ostensibly SOUNDS better, but is still goofy.
@@whitewhale9012 base from einsteins equation, going faster than light gives you negative time hence you turn back time, thats where the logic comes from
@@officialspock That's negative time for the object in movement not the universe.
Superman would age a day, and the planet would age years.
I love the Christopher Reeve Superman movies, even the 3rd and 4th ones despite the backlash its getting. It's nice to see you doing a take on their famous production stories. I've been hearing about the drama behind the scenes from different CZcamsrs and documentaries. So it's interesting to hear how you would tell it. 😄
Destroy Superman 👉🦹
Loved all your videos and will be getting your book dude. Well done on getting it out there 🙂
Just listened to How Did This Get Made's take on Superman 3...perfect timing and I always love your posts.
The DC cinematic universe could have started 3 decades back if they allowed Doner to continue his vision. Damn.
And MCU would be the one playing catching up.
@@javaks exactly.
Y'all are too obsessed with a boring ass format that is the cinematic universe
Maybe more like the James Bond movies than an early DCEU. IIRC Donner intended to direct up to the third or fourth film then pass the reigns to others. I think Tom Mankiewicz was mentioned in one of the commentaries, and Donner would remain as producer.
This video shows just how remarkable it was that the studios not only let Snyder make his corrected cut of Justice League but also gave him millions to finish it as intended.
I never knew Hackman refused to go back for reshoots due to his loyalty to Donner, what a bro move.
Fabulous piece. My first celebrity interview at the Sherwood Oaks film school was with Mr. Donner right after he was "excised" from Superman 2. It was so cathartic he returned the next year with Margot Kidder so we could make fun of this sequel when it came out.
I really wish you made videos more often. Love your work mate!
Pre-ordered your book, looking forward to reading it. I can't get enough of your content. Cheers and best of luck!
I loved this movie when it came out (I was a kid). I love the Donner cut far more now.
I miss hearing, "Coffee on a Tuesday." so much these days. Excellent video as always, I'll look for your book when it's out.
Irregardless of the Donner and Lester situation, I do believe that Christopher Reeve was the best embodiment of this character. For that matter, I also honestly believe that he will be the best portrayal of this character ever to grace the silver screen. Donna’s first film to this day is my favorite movie ever. Rest in peace Chris and may God bless your soul.
That scene made me "WTF" too but I don't think it really felt out of place in the old Superman movies. Even the first movie was kind of campy and had a scene where Lex Luthor some how figures out Superman is from Krypton and what his weakness is seemingly out of no where. There's a later scene in the movie where Lois interviews Superman and she publishes a story about him which would have made the Lex scene more belivable if Lois story had been published first but instead we end up with Lex inexplicably knowing things that he couldn't know at that time. The Tim Burton Batman films are actually the first time we actually got a serious super hero movie. Which ironically featured a clown as the main villain.
What are you talking about? Lois' interview with Superman IS how Lex figures out Superman was weak to Kryptonite though. Exactly how he figured that out is a total mystery, but he does find out Superman is from Krypton from reading that interview.
@@AirLancer yep the library scene
Nah.....Burton was very campy and his movies looked like they were filmed on a stage.
Fun fact: a superpower that Superman has that not many people know about is super-ventriloquism. Superman can throw his voice, change his voice, or project himself like an auditory megaphone.
Congratulations on the book! Love the subtitle by the way.
Evan, that's the most beautiful homage to the Reeve/Donner Superman I've ever seen. Thank you for making this. I feel the same as you. I feel that Christopher Reeve was the perfect Superman and no-one has even come close to capturing that spirit. There was a real grace and elegance to his performance and the original film that is perfect for (in my opinion) the king of superheroes.
That film is the closest we've come to that perfection you mentioned. Even the world reversing bit at the end was fine by me and of its time. I don't know how old you are but I'm 49 and remember repeat viewings of the film at Christmas throughout the 1980s. In my eyes films were made differently in those days which included expectations in storytelling. I'm just so sorry that each subsequent Christopher Reeve film got worse and worse, of which he has indeed acknowledged in interviews, albeit in his own beautifully diplomatic style.
I liked Henry Cavill's performance of Superman and feel the Man of Steel could have been so much better and captured the purity necessary for Superman if it had been made by a different director. I like Zack Snyder, but not this film.
Great commentary. Lester's Three Musketeers is one of my favorite films, period, but I agree he hosed Supes, and shameless self-promotion is cool when done right, and you did fine
As a fan of The Shadow, I have a place in my heart for the camp. A similar feeling came across in Van Helsing (2004), but at the same time, when the camp goes over the top to the extent that it almost seems intended to mock the protagonist, that’s where it loses me. In fact, now that I think of it, in both those movies, the majority of said campiness is in the world and characters around the protagonist, and less The Shadow or Van Helsing himself.
That said, I feel deeply indebted to Donner for “bringing the gods down to earth,” so to speak. The superhero genre remains unique, but designed to permit easy suspension of disbelief.
I always get hyped to see new videos from you! Thanks for this! Also, thanks for the update on Escape into Meaning! No apologies needed, I’ve been looking forward to news! Can’t wait!
Had the book on pre-order for ages. Can't wait to read it.
Nice work on this one. Donner was amazing.
These videos are so well done...can't wait to read the book!
Great video as usual just want to say the Lois lane shoots Clark with blanks to trick him to reveal he's superman is the good kinda wackiness I wish the kept in the next two.Your right thought they really need to him nail down when ever reboot him again
I showed my kids the original Superman, and told them it was the best version.
So your kids will grow up camp drag queens.
Congrats on the book, Evan! I'm moving to Canada in a few weeks and as soon as I get to Toronto I'll order it!
I pre-ordered the audiobook on Audible couple of weeks ago. Can't wait to listen to it. I wish you a lot of success!
Thank you for making GOOD content, I'm always engaged and I feel like you give us the exact amount of information as a 15-30 min video
Richard Donner filmed all of the scenes with Gene Hackman including the scenes at the fortress of solitude. Did Lester actually film any scenes on the FOS set? Not so certain he had anything to do with the silly superman powers.
Watch the Donner Cut. In his cut, there is no fighting in the FOS just dialogue and his disposing of villains after they are robbed of their powers. Lester's Lex scenes are done with distant shots and body doubles. The whole fight with the cellophane was pure Lester.
@@halblow448 Yes, I thought there might have been body doubles, and I own the Director's Cut but I don't remember the fighting scenes being absent.
Congrats on the book man!!
Pre-ordered! Well done and can't wait to read it.
The faster you go the slower time moves, until it eventually stops when you hit the speed of light. If you can fly faster than light then you can arrive at a place before you even left to get there. So in theory, we don't see Superman spinning the Earth backwards just travelling back in time and from his perspective the Earth's spin has reversed. So he's not physically stopping Earth's spin at all
this is actually a really sick comment i never thought of it that way
It's a good thing he didn't stop Earth spinning, he would've killed everyone lol.
Except if you actually watch the scene in question that is clearly not is happening, since he stops flying briefly and the Earth is still spinning backwards and he then has to fly the opposite direction to get it back to its original rotation.
None of what you said is correct though. When traveling near the speed of light, time APPEARS to slow down, only from your point of view. If you were able to travel faster than the speed of light, you could in theory arrive and see events transpiring that the people where you started your trip still had not yet been able to see, but that doesn't mean you arrived before you left (meaning it's not actually time travel). And even then, traveling in a circle, as Superman was, that effect would not even work.
It's a physics defying deus ex machina either way, so arguing over which impossible thing is happening is kind of pointless. Superhero movies are fantasy. Just enjoy it.
For whatever script problems both versions of the film might have, ultimately, Richard Lester is a much better director than Richard Donner. Just how Lester blocks a scene and has the actors move around is so extraordinary.
Also, the theatrical Superman II is arguably more influential than the original Superman. The big fight scenes in II and all the romance stuff were directed by Lester and are the clear predecessor to every subsequent superhero film. Heck, the whole "losing powers" subplot was ripped straight from Superman II and then put in Spider-Man 2!
Not to mention, there was a line in Superman 2 that I found very interesting It's when the sheriff told the deputy, "You gotta learn to kick ass you want to be a peace maker".
I’m preordering you’re book right after this.
4:20 pretty good unintentional illustration of the speed of light towards the end there tho
It is a shame that Richard Donner was fired by the Salkinds. He reportedly had plans to keep the movie series going.
wow! I never knew that the turning back time thing was originally intended for Superman II. I never cared for the Richard Donner cut because I thought he just recycled the ending and wanted to have Superman just turn time back any time he got really upset.
I'm so excited for the book!!
Great video. Congratulations on your book.
The Lester cut I thought was much smoother than the Donner cut. Not knocking the newer version. There were parts in that one I liked way better: the scenes with Brando, the updated special effects (especially of the one of the villains breaking out of the phantom zone). However, the love scenes with Lois were SO much more powerful in Lester’s cut. Maybe if Donner were given more freedom at the time, we would’ve seen a way more polished final edit, but Donner’s cut just seemed incomplete. Despite all the goofy comedic overtones, Lester’s had more symmetry.
Donners cut was incomplete. He needed to use Lester’s work to help with continuity. He even says such in the intro to the Donner cut.
He didn't reverse the earth's rotation. He turned back time by flying faster than light, the earth roatated backwards because time was moving backwards.
Which makes even less sense. When you try to add pop-physics knowledge to fantasy you use the actual theories. In the “twin paradox” (concerning special relativity) the observer flying near the speed of light doesn’t go back in time. He simply experience less time than everybody else on his new inertial time frame. Very accurate clocks on satellites confirm the hypothesis. So, if anything, Superman would appear to travel forward in time with that method.
@@FuriousTortoise "near" the speed of light. Superman was flying faster than the speed of light.
Such a great video. I love your work ❤️
Bought your book, man. Love your stuff.
Already pre-ordered the book, even without knowing about a Superman connection, but curious to see how your essay compares with 'Man of Steel, Woman of Kleenex'. I'm thinking it will be a.. uh.. different take on the Superman mythos.
Ah! Yes! The invincible sperm that destroys Metroplisis!!!
Never change horses in midstream. Sound lesson from Wag the Dog
Why true most of the time. There are cases when changing has turned out for the better. BACK TO THE FUTURE comes to mind with the change from Eric Stoltz to Michael J. Fox.
@@darth_kal-el that wasn't really mid stream though. They had barely started and realized he was just bad.
Ordered my copy a long time ago. I'd never miss it!
Well done on the book!
I grew up on Superman too. But I don't want any more DCEU/MCU movies, TV series or comic books. The entire franchise has rotted out in so many different ways. Instead, The Boys, Invincible, etc. are bringing in new ideas and fresh energy. Anime is even better.
What are the new ideas? Superheroes that actually evil dicks and shitty people with a bunch of gore? I noped out of both after the 1 season. It's already gotten stale, and unnecessary to me.
@@burntvirtue no, that's not a new idea either; Watchmen did it earlier. The Boys' new idea is how megacorps are a different kind of superpower that can make both moral and immoral superheroes dance to their tune. The story is not yet finished so I think it's too early to consider all that gore stale. That's one of their themes, and they should stick with it.
I enjoy the "Donner" version but my biggest problem with his 1 & 2 is Superman spinning the world, or just time has been suggested, backwards in time to correct all the "bad."
One: even for Superman it's hard to believe (in fairness in the silver age comics he did stranger things) yes all of Superman's powers are unbelievable but still for the sake of the story there must be a inter logic.
Two: with this ability how can any danger facing him be taken seriously. If things go wrong all he has to do is spined back time until he can correct everything. Where is the suspense?
Superman 1 and 2 (both versions of 2) were very good and watchable but this spinning back time just doesn't make sense story wise. 🤔
Even Flash also tried to change the past and it change the present aswell but it was more horrified
I like the research you did for this. I have little love for Supes, but I loved this video. Thank you.
Dude… he’s a fictional alien with (depending on his portrayal) is almost omnipotent :) the whole concept is ridiculous… but equally enjoyable… great video thank you 🙏🏼
Yes, Warner has the shitty idea of make interference and ruin a filmmaker’s vision
You should have analysed this question with doctor strange 2 as a case study, it's change is much more blatant and some how worked out for the movie
Congrats on your book mate!
The super kiss is actually from the comics, and the "roller skates guy" was also in the Donner Cut.
All these years and I still haven't seen Richard Lester talk about his Superman work in either interviews or behind-the-scenes features. I think he knows how bad his footage is and just doesn't want to get into it.
The thing about these two movies, and let's include Burton's Batman too, is that the injection of camp humour made the films more watchable for many audiences, and therefore culturually significant. Everybody understands the reference 'kneel before Zod!' (and let's not deny it, the way Stamp plays it that's MAJOR CAMPERY when it comes down to it - even if it was a Donner scene), and then there's Michelle Pfeiffer's Catwoman (the way she delivers that throatily camp miaow - it could have been Bette Davis). Those films contained more entertainment than mere action and suspense, they knew how to tell a joke, to be more than this-happens-that-happens. Superhero films since the millenium more or less have lost their sense of humour, exchanged for cheap angst like a bad pop song. Think about it, maybe only one reference out of the 25 years can make a claim to be culturally significant - 'with great power comes great responsibility', an outlier born more out of the politics of the time, and even then if people quote it it's usually in an ironic sense.
The no camp, all serious CGI superheroes of today play well to international audiences of undemanding teens and so make billions, but not a single one lays a mark on our culture. For a little while Lester's influence on Superman II gave us something better, like the difference between poetry and a car manual, his style and influence on these films gave you metaphors you could hang your hat on. What do we have now?
Of course, there's the caveate that too much of a good thing is REALLY bad, Superman III, and those awful campy Batman films after Burton left duly accounted for.
Wow - a new video from Nerdwriter, what a time to be alive
beautiful video, thank you for sharing
As messy as the Donner Cut of Superman II is, the scene where Lois Lane tricks Clark Kent into revealing he's Superman is great. One of my favorite scenes in a superhero movie. czcams.com/video/UtrXDq5OTn4/video.html
I honestly don't appreciate your throwing Zack Snyder's Man of Steel under the bus. To me, it was an amazingly complex and nuanced film that addressed the struggles that Clark Kent had to endure before deciding he'd commit to being Superman.
Agreed. It's a movie that goes up in my estimation every time I watch it.
I think it might be the best comic book movie.
it's a common theme with popular video essayists to dismiss Zack Snyder's DCEU for some reason
YES! Great up! Well Done. 🤜🤛
Great analysis
You haven't even finished watching the video yet smh.
@@ke6944 bros the comment cop
Good comment
I haven't seen a single director since Donner understand why superman's disguise at the daily planet could work. Hardly needing to change his appearance because everyone there was so self absorbed and the situation so hectic, he didn't create a great disguise, he chose the perfect place to hide. There are awesome long sequences in the 1 and 2 where hardly anyone at the Planet gives him more than the briefest of glances. Bryan Singer gave us a huge long sequence where the office was empty and two supposedly intelligent people gazed at Clark wondering if he was superman (slaps forehead). Zack Snyder just couldn't be bothered with it, it seemed.
That thumbnail image is fantastic! I thought it was an off-camera moment of Reeves making funny faces, but when I saw the hand at the bottom of the screen I realised it was a still from the scene where Superman is fighting off the villains’ hand-rays with his own hand-rays.
keep up the great work, hope your book would have an audio version with your narration .
Thank you very much. I really enjoyed this story, which I didn't know