Model Y E22: Changes inside the Model Y Front EDM and Comparison to M3
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- čas přidán 19. 04. 2020
- Episode 22: Sandy walks us through the similarities and differences observed in comparing the front EDMs (Electric Drive Module) and induction motors on the Model Y and Model 3. Additionally, we review some of the basic functionality of an EV's gearbox and drivetrain.
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Intro/Outro:
Music from CZcams Audio Library [Aka YAL]
Music provided by RFM: • Video - Auta a dopravní prostředky
Another weekday morning, another Sandy talking above my simple head about a Model Y piece. You're making this lockdown that much more bearable, thank you!
5:50 - _"I just don't known how they developing the power that they are..."_ - Sandy
Wirmish “tesla has no advantage”
- Chanos
- Lutz
@@bob15479 Technically it's true. An advantage would be if they had something better than the competition. That would imply that THERE IS a competition which there isn't (yet)
Lol
@@TigreDemon the Taycan real world is challenging tesla which is good but still want a tesla, prefer to support the company that kicked the big boys in the nuts
"Alien Technology"
It’s interesting how they have changed the motor in the Y. I wonder if the current build 3s are using the same new design.
Highly likely.. highly likely lots of the things Sandy is seeing as new in the model Y, are already in the newest model 3's.. when did they go in.. you'd only know if people tore apart model 3s from every different month. It's just how Tesla operates with the rolling changes to their lineup. But you can probably narrow it down to times when they changed pricing or any of the times they changed performance specs. Some could be software.. some could be these new hardware changes.. it's impossible to know without tearing them all apart.
@@airheart1 And that's actually a pain in the ass! They are actually making the cars better and then get slapped with "you never update your cars" "no model years update" and stuff like that.
If they actually took the step to introduce model years or something along the lines to enable people to clearly tell which cars have got what.
It's frustrating from a used or even new vehicle point of view, you're paying tens of thousands of $ for a "surprise", for not really knowing what you're gonna get apart from forum guesses or Elon tweets? Not cool.
As always Tesla has got amazing engineering, but terrible management, marketing and administration.
@@luca7069 does it really matters? I mean, if new motors give you the same time 0-60 but reduced costs for Tesla?
@@dmitrii336 I'm not just talking about new motors, but all these new little improvements.
But even considering a little motor improvement, what if 2 years down the line the cars with this motor get trough software a performance or range boost? What if the old or new version proves unreliable?
All this kind of stuff can seriously effect the value of a car, and surely it's better to know it rather than not
Yes. Yes they are. Have been using these since before Y release.
It may be that the current Model 3 being produced now uses the same design as the Y since you looked at an early build Model 3. It's known that Tesla does small incremental updates all year round to thier products.
I was thinking the same thing... This could be better seen as a teardown of Tesla, circa 2020.
Indeed. Would be cool to see Munro & Assoc get a wreked 2020 P3 and do a new teardown with the differences.
It is like watching a tear down of brushless RC car motors in full 1:1 scale
They look very similar
The deeper the dive on this MY, the more interesting it is
Thank you for all you do Sandy
Look up small scale drones that are used by the military. Seems like the lines between hobby and serious blur. Also cool how the improvements in motor/ESC/Batteries are making Nitro RC obsolete.
It's been revealed. Spiderman is the Tesla motor secret sauce.
i cant believe i never saw it the first time i watched lol
With great power comes great responsibility.
I wonder how much this cost in royalties 😆
Hey don't spoil the plot for the next Spiderman movie!
nonsense
For a "new" company in the car industry (well at least compared to the hundred-year-old mammoths) Tesla sure has lots of secret sauces in their vehicles.
This is 3rd or 4th major redesign of the motor in 8 years.
These are early days of true mass investment in EVs (first decade).
There are a lot of technical paths that all the companies are investigating to find out the best electric motor/electronics.
I expect in 10 years that a optimal design will have been found and we will stop seeing large improvements.
@@pspublic13 possibly, but if one company patents that design, there will be another decade of alternatives being developed.
@@kschleic9053 My point is that after a few years, everyone will have decided on their designs, iterated on those designs for several versions, and then you won't see rapid improvements after that point.
The one exception being the battery. It is the biggest contributor to the cost, range anxiety is a big consumer concern, and we are not near the limits of physics for batteries like we are for motors.
I think there is no one-size-fits-all design. Its about the best compromise for each use case. One wants more performance, one wants better efficiency, and one might want a good balance. Also the Induction Motor itself is now over 130 Years old, and Patents for Variable frequency drives are also over 100 Years old, so this Tech is also pretty well explored. Just putting them in Cars is new (and might pose a few new challenges)
"So how much do you know about the gear wars?.... "Oh, I envy you." -Revolio Clockberg Jr.
Surprised to see such a significant difference between the 3 and Y rotors. Don't believe Tesla had announced anything about having different drive systems - I'd always assumed they'd be part of the shared components. Can't wait to see what's inside.
Bear in mind the M3 rotor is from one of the earliest M3's. The one in the MY could well have been developed for, and used in, current M3's.
I think most people underestimate the constant improvements Tesla makes to their vehicle line ups....We have been conditioned to buy new models...Tesla is always improving and refining the car the same way software is done
@@stephen-boddy that's a fair point - might be great if Munro could compare their early 3 vs. recent 3's. I know that might not be justifiable cost-wise, but would be a unique perspective on just how much continual improvements Tesla does - think that's the threat to other manufacturers.
Matt Jacobson it could be done with crashed cars or chosen parts from crashed cars.
No doubt the new rotor is being used in the Model 3 as well
That's the thing. If you were buying a Model 3 or even a Model X, how would you know what rotor was being used? I can't imagine a customer asking. : )
@@davidhunternyc1 It doesn't really matter. They all achieve pretty much the same thing.
It's easy to see the part number. Same motors in 3 as in Y
@@chstra45 rotor not motor
@@davidhunternyc1 if the assembly has same part number it has same internals. 3 and Y share drive units. This rotor has been in DU before Y started production.
Loving your show. I would love to hear a bit more detail and also depth but with an eye on the fact that I a programmer not an engineer. I am sure many here fall into this group of great intrest but little learning.
Great job!! thx for your work.
Thank you Sandy and Crew!
Hey, monetized. :)
Finally
Great Video. Keep up the good work.
So, I gather that there is no reverse "gear" per se, but rather, reverse is accomplished by running the motor backwards?
Yes.
you just need to change the polarity and it runs backwards just as any electric motor
Phillip Probst Correct. Reverse is electronically limited to 16 mph if I remember correctly. Otherwise it could go somewhere around 150-162 mph in reverse.
@@santiagocastro4683 yes however it's more inverting two out of the three phases with AC motors, inverting polarity would be used to describe the same operation with a DC motor
@@apricity69 video of Tesla Model 2 prototype driving in unlimited reverse gear: czcams.com/video/J9TyqT0Erpk/video.html
Love the technical breakdown.
Spiderman is where I want to be, right in the middle of this level of engineering nerding out.
Fantastic work guys, can't wait to see the inside of the motor parts!
I'm wondering if some of these new motor designs have made there way into some of the other cars already.
Great videos Sandy. I've been following your advice and tipping my cashiers.
Great Video. thank's
Fascinating info, thanks!
Facesitting info for sure
Thank you
Thank you dear sandy, booked my model Y
Keep up the good work guys!!
What a wonderful thing to wake to.
Thank you!
Why don't we all make a separate fund for a new model 3,so Munro can buy a 2020 model 3 and the review it for us,50 - 100 dollar per person from all of us would sure buy a new M3.
he dont need it.
what u see in these videos, he puts much more in reports nad sells them to all those other automakers...
that is his main bussiness... these videos are jst a bit of fun during these times for him. after the following he is ammasing he might continue them after too, but he can buy another tm3 to chop down, since he will make much more $$ form it
Don't be an idiot, Munro & associates has plenty of resources. Purchasing cost for cars are propably negligible
Can't get enough of these episodes. I wish they were 30 or 40 minutes long to learn more about all these automotive details.
only interesting because model Y and model 3, theres lots of videos and materials on induction motors and designs but those are boring as fuck and make you fall asleep.
Can’t wait to hear more about the motors!
Good Morning Captain Kangaroo
( great videos....keep em comin’ !)
I like the new intro Mr. Munro. Very nice touch.
Well they can do amazing things with signals these days so the high rpm can be reached and also with liquid cooling they can seriously overdrive the stators coils and feild weakening can be acheived at higher rpm with possible delta-star switching . It would be great if sandy could acquire the signal waveform data going to the motor. It would be sinusoidal but i feel it would change shape in the waveform at different loads and rpm .Can you get that readout Sandy ?
Please go over if the coolant flows between the stator and rotor for co axial cooling of the electric motor.
It would be nice if @Munro did a video on the shielding materials and composition of the casing around these very power electric propulsion systems.
Sir, with you I put the "like" on the beginning!
Sandy, it is important to say: "look, this is Model 3 from 2020 January"... Because in February... it may be totally different. Like the rotor. There is no need to do that old design any more on Model 3.
With the important note here being, his model 3 tear down was from an early 2018, or maybe even a late 2017 production model 3.
Aluminium wire with the same conductivity as copper is 1/2 the weight but larger volume. For example, 6 AWG Al conductor will carry the same current as 8 AWG copper (60A) 4.1mm v 3.25mm.
Al is better option for a rotating mass.
@@davidelliott5843 The wire is copper in both, the separator "fingers" changed from copper to aluminum.
Hey Sandy!
Thank you for these videos, so we’ll done and so very informative.
One thing I think is worth pointing out is that you’re making comparison statements about “Model 3” -vs- “Model Y” as you’ve torn down both.
But Tesla makes changes to all models on a continuous basis.
So, for instance, the motor differences you describe in this video (and other changes along the way, for that matter) may, or may not, have been incorporated into Model 3 anytime between when your Model 3 was built and when your Model Y was built.
👍🏻
Just in time for my morning Tesla Café! Thank you for your work, can't wait for tomorrow video already ñ
Great videos. Will you make an episode about the ADAS sensors? Details about cameras, ultrasonic sensors and radar would be exciting.
Love the rotor break downs. It's always amazing how much more Tesla is doing with the same weight compared to other auto makers.
Thanks, ur awsome
the good stuff!!!
Happy Monday
your the best sandy,hope in future you will do other products,be safe
Can't wait to see what's inside of the model Y rotor!
nothing, you just saw it.. the rotor is nothing but thin laminated metal with two end caps.... ... and magic :)
Alien technology
Justin Mallaiz hoping they’ll let us know what the magic is....... special metallurgy for the aluminum in that rotor???
Legend
Yeah you can really tell they want to know what the secret sauce behind the motor rotor is. Lighter but develops more power.
Hey Sandy, is it OK to change gear in motion in Teslas? The car lets you shift gear under 5 MPH, which is really useful. I don't want to break anything though. Thanks for another great video!
tipped 3 checkout girls, and all refused at first and where then quite moved with thank you and a exhale & & a smile. Awesome! Best 6 bucks we have spent.
Perhaps you could show more detail around the motor and gearbox interface? In particular note that the (first stage) pinion pulls off the motor shaft and depends on the motor bearing for support, as well as having its own tail bearing. Is oil allowed to enter the motor, if so, how does it exit? How is the far motor bearing lubricated? Thanks - enjoy your videos!
Sandy, you guys should look into CZcams membership option to support your work. You have enough subs to qualify for that. Other support options are thru Patreon and PayPal donations.
Great educational videos, thank you!
Thanks for the suggestion! We opted to go the Patreon route, and we'd love to have you join! Patreon.com/MunroLive Thanks for tuning in!
I still cant beleive how much power they can generate from this size motor. Its astonishing !
“I just don’t know how they’re developing the power...” *-Sandy Munro*
“Tesla has no technology advantage” *-Lutz, Chanos*
This is the best quote ever. Let's face it anyone that doesn't think Tesla have an advantage are either blind stupid or have other investments they are trying to protect.
@@michaelgreenhalgh7118 Tesla's main advantage is not that their tech is "advanced," but that they have decided to aggressively seek out whatever tech is best for the application, and there is no hierarchy of "experienced" (complacent) managers saying 'we don't do that here" . Small improvements have compounded effects.
@@psdaengr911 what about there advances in software??
That rotor has been in model 3 induction motor for months. New aluminum alloy casting. Replacing all those welded copper pieces with one aluminum casting saved millions on materials and machines, also rotor production takes significantly less space in factory.
yep thats what audi also did right at the begining
Mr Munro does an excellent job here as usual. For all you Nikola Tesla fans out there I strongly recommend "The Secret Of Nikola Tesla" film featuring, oddly enough, Orson Welles as J.P. Morgan. It's worth a watch and some people might learn something. I know I did. It's on Amazon and Itunes.
I'm thinking that the rotor's copper was replaced by high pressure injection molded aluminum alloy some time ago. That may have inspired later, applications . Suggest you compare it with the alloy of the rear body tub.
btw, Aren't ALL geared machinery lubricants coolants?
I really hope he gets big enough soon to start a secret metal labs division under the name Henry reardon
i'm slightly annoyed that all those traditional manufacturers dont even need to buy themselves a test sample! Amazing content!
Mr Munro, in your opinion, would it be possible to eliminate the differential when using two separate electric motors for each wheel, possibly incorporating the motors in the wheels ?
Apart from the complexity of the steering, is there scope to have a mega casting in the FRONT ? ,Perhaps even including the FIRE WALL
WOULD THE COOLENT BE ELECTROLITES OR wind funnled in to it through like recirculated compressed air near the aircondisioning tubes ? or is it form of cool water recirculated from aircondisioning cooled through fron like wind cooled motor of vw ?
Some times forgetting how simple the whole construction:
It would be a great opportunity to reverse engineer all the main components this for *scale RC model car enthusiast, with **_relative accurate_** car assembly in mind* like RC Tamiya kit, but who interested in building car models as RC car or education reason (high level) with high level of details like retractable windows and etc.
I wonder what Sandy Munro thinks of the Planetary Power Split Device popularised mostly by the Prius?
It's such a trip to see how it operates. Shame that they can't just beef up the MGs for a more powerful battery pack (Prime 80hp from 36).
Is the motor and gear casing airtight?
I was thinking that with the high revolutions there would be some air resistance inside the motor and gears.
Would that be lower if there was lower airpressure inside?
Its filled with transmission fluid during operation.
Wind turbines use epicyclic gearboxes because they are smoother running, more efficient, and longer lasting than parallel shaft gearboxes. Costs are similar because gears are straight cut.
Tesla has always been super keen to maximise efficiency so why did they not use epicyclic gears?
You need a differential. In an EV you are powering 2 wheels with 1 motor. In a wind turbine it's only 1 turbine.
Yehuda Goldberg ok so should we expect epicyclic gears for the two rear motors in the Plaid powertrain then? Since they are one motor -> one wheel in that configuration
Crazy
Good on-camera Sandy - you're looking more comfortable in front of the camera :)
2:43 Hopefully the people saying "Oh, you can just leave the fluid in the case for the lifetime of the car with no problem" on the BEV sites will understand this. You a diff with its ring gear and the reduction transmission all using the same oil. Just change the oil and cheap spin-on filter at least every 75k miles or so.
75k compared to every 7500 is a good improvement :)
@@lylestavast7652 What are you talking about? Normal torque converter or DCT transmission fluid should be done at 75-100k miles and differential fluid around the same time.
Every 1million miles. That’s why the oil filter for a gearbox is there in the first place.
@@starshipdriver8536 Hahahaha. Yeah, ok. You do that. Let's see the condition of the fluid and filter after one million miles.
It's sad how many Tesla guys see other ignorant info and just parrot it around as truth.
It's a differential and reduction transmission sharing fluid with a twist-on filter! The ring gear will be done way before a million miles. Pay the $20 bucks at least every 75-100k miles and do the easy job...
MrCarGuy20 I’m definitely planning to change mine before 100k miles. I wonder if Tesla would do the service and how much it would cost. But yeah, at some point the gears wear and the particles clog up the filter, and the smaller particles suspended in the oil accelerate wear. Changing early is better than changing late.....
Munro, you've been talking about the Model Y, I've been paying attention, however, I've been paying attention to your various face masks too. It just hit me that your face mask allow for 'talking.' It doesn't restrict your lips from moving because there is a gap between lips and face mask. 👍
In your next video you'll be breaking down the various face masks you've worn... lol.
not sure if Tesla reduced the copper content in the Front EDM or replaced it with Aluminium for MY from M3, and if its former, i.e. reduced content, makes sense that they don't want excess heat generated that was previously needed for heating up the coolant which was also used to heat up the battery since the M3 doesn't come with an electric PTC coolant heater. With MY, with the added Heat pump, there is an opportunity to reduce the heat generated from the EDM side, and use the heat pump to make up for it to heat up the coolant which then is used to warm up the battery
Sandy, is there any real difference in motors used in LR and P model Y? Are they software limited, or is there structural/physical difference?
I don't think the oil pump for the gearbox works in reverse, that's why the reverse speed is limited.
Do the dual motor and performance cars have the same motors? If so, what limits their performance differences? In other words, what's holding the DM back from the P performance capabilities?
Also, it's called a c-clip on the axle (half-shaft?), not o-ring or even e-clip if that's what was said (hard to hear exactly).
The price is the limiting factor on performance :-)
Sandy, the liqud coolant they use Elon drinks all the time, I believe it's a Pan Galactic Gargle Blaster....got a heck of a kick!
Is the model three motor still the same as the version you show or has it been upgraded
I think it's safe to say that there is no single reason for Tesla to produce 2 versions of the same motor.
If I'm not wrong your model 3 teardown is from 2018 model right? I wonder if current model 3 is using the same motor as model Y, given that shape wise, there are no differences from what I've seen in this video.
I agree. The front drive unit is probably the same in current 3 and Y.
Can you specify how much current and voltage is required to drive Tesla Y motor
Curious about how many of the parts are the same as a model3, from your descriptions they share very little, definitely not 75%, more like 20%? What is the real number of shared parts for the Model Y with the Model 3??
Remember he's looking at a very early Model 3. It's safe to assume that many of the differences Sandy has found are changes Tesla made to Model 3.
With so many subtle and ongoing changes/updates, I suspect it will be a nightmare sourcing parts for these cars once warranty is out. I know that with the vin, it may show these specifics but image working on a 20+ year old car in the distant future and having to keep up with so many mid-year/model changes.
There are only around twenty moving parts in the typical modern EV powertrain instead of thousands in legacy ICE designs, and those parts operate at a much less stressful temperature ranges, making it easier to design closed systems that are more robust and reliable, for example the sealed batteries, and a radiator unit that doesn't need a reservoir.
They shouldn't need to be touched for hundreds of thousands of miles unless you're in some bad accident perhaps.
Nah, just replace the old parts with the newest version!
can you explain in a video how the stator works?
It makes the rotor spin.
WOW. The size difference between the etron and model Y rotor is huge..
- Was the Etron example also the front motor?? ( it looked twice the hp)
The bearings and gears on the model Y also look very big and beefy..
-Are they larger than usual??
-Is gear box gear ratio the same as model 3? (I sort of expected they would gear up a bit for the weight and drag... I guess the same peak efficiency rpm was kept the same)
Justin Mallaiz we have also to consider different tire diameter vs Model 3 that can justify different gear ratio.
@@pierrechampoux7566 : yeah , I missed the biggest most obvious reason
It would be interesting to know if they have been dyno'd to compare size vs output.
5:50 looks like a giant roller bad wheel
what is the weight difference vs Model 3? Could it be an aluminum squirrel cage, like the Audi, instead of the copper one in the Model 3 ?
He said it was aluminum.
It most definitely is Aluminum. You can make it much smaller and lighter with Aluminum.
@@MichaelAntonFischer To carry the same current you need a larger cross sectional area with aluminum than copper. So you can make it lighter but not smaller.
Very surprised with the cast aluminum rotor. I don’t know how Tesla can achieve high efficiency with that.
I’m sure there is a reason by doing so.
Oh, maybe it’s not the primary motor.
1943vermork the main motor is supposed to be the rear wheel drive which is a PM machine. The dual motor versions only will have this induction machine like the Model 3
Pretty sure new model 3 and new model Y will have exactly the same motors. So it is great to see the evolution.
The original Model S gearbox oil pump only works in one direction. That‘s the (rumored) reason why that car’s reverse speed is limited.
Any cars reverse speed is limited. It's only one gear.
Bonjour, très bonne vidéo mais est ce possible d'avoir la traduction en français en sous titrage ?
I was tingling all over with this.
It is a car, don't get to excited.
Why is there is Spider Man cut out inside the Model-Y gear shaft?
Mos of the features you show as diffrent are now the same in the model 3 and that goes for all your videos. The model 3 from nowdays is vastly diffrent to the one you disasambled.
I have a hard time believing the 3 & Y share ~75% of parts after watching these videos. Maybe 75% with a +/- 25% margin of error.
Sandy is comparing an early Model 3 to an early Model Y. There would be fewer differences if he compared a current Model 3 to the Y. For example a current Model 3 presumably has the same front motor as Model 3.
Could your assessment be biased due to the fact that many of the parts NOT in common are LARGE parts? There are thousands of tiny parts not visible even in this teardown. this in addition to what peter mentioned.
Most of the parts are small and not that much talked about.
Copper is heavy and more expensive. Electric induction motors would all be similar in performance, trading a tiny loss for lighter weight and lower cost? Magnesium is lighter, could it be?
Magnesium catches fire, so maybe there is a safety issue,
That spider man is hilarious👍 🤣😂😅 am telling you mr musk is a very funny man
The JerryRig of cars.
Can I ask a question to the engineers watching this. Why ball bearings vs needle bearings if you are talking about rpm be so high?
Needle bearings are for high load because they have a higher surface area than a sphere so produce more heat.
@@TimLF if it were not for the heat the Needle would work for this. Makes sense more surface area more heat. Thanks Tim.
Ball bearings take side loads as well as peripheral. Here the pieces need to be located in their axial plane as well as the primary loads being from rotation around their axis. Roller bearings are for radial forces in other words pure peripheral loads, often seen on systems where at least 1 ball bearing is present (taking the side load) allowing rollers to be used for the remaining rotational loads.
Hey spidey!
Maybe the Mahle no-magnet motor is viable in next generation to reduce rare earth resources needed in EV production
I wouldn't say just slightly better resistance with copper, aluminum has about 1.58 times the resistance of copper. Now I could understand arguing against silver but not copper.
I’m guessing the motor is the key to Tesla’s much higher efficiency. Efficiency (miles traveled to kWh used) is the key so much; range, charging speed, smaller battery so lighter so more range... everything.
If it's like Model 3, the front motor is rarely used. Most of the time it's just the rear motor doing all the work. Same for regen. The front motor is there for hard acceleration/deceleration and when rear wheels are slipping. So the front motor is designed to minimize losses when unpowered, while the rear motor is designed for efficiency.
What kind of motor are we talking about in terms of the Model Y in this video. Is this the rear or the front motor?. I know, that the rear motor of Model 3 was build as an permanent magnet synchronous reluctance motor..
Front motor. It was mentioned in a previous video.
Thanks !