Tai Chi is the highest form of combat
Vložit
- čas přidán 22. 04. 2022
- Taijiquan (tai chi chuan if you use the antiquated Wade Giles spelling) literally means the highest form of unarmed combat. But most tai chi practitioners today don’t know how to fight at all. Can you reverse engineer functional combat ready taijiquan from today’s live combat sports like wrestling, judo, BJJ, and Muay Thai?
---
Ramsey Dewey is an MMA coach and fight commentator, and occasional musician based in Shanghai, China.
Thanks to my channel sponsor:
Xmartial: catering to all kinds of combat sports athletes from BJJ, MMA, Muay Thai etc. find rash guards, fight shorts, grappling spats, boxing gloves and other training gear. Use my code RAMSEY10 for a 10% discount on everything at
www.xmartial.com/?ref=AyJ_EjP...
This video features original music by Ramsey Dewey
Follow me on Instagram at: / ramseydewey - Sport
My grandmother was starting to feel a bit stiff and started doing Tai Chi in her early 70s. She's now 95 yers old and she still attends class 3 times a week. She also walks to her classes there and back, and socialises with most of the other students. I'm absolutely convinced that her health, fluidity of movements, and halted physical decrepitude is largely down to the practice of Tai Chi.
Beautiful, I hope you are still encouraging her to attend the classes.✌️
Based granny. 🙏
Cool.
Finally SOMEONE SAID IT!I learned Hung Gar Kung Fu and Tai Chi as one of my first serious arts and frankly couldnt really make heads or tails of it. I have now been learning Muay Thai and wrestling for the past two years and EVERYTHING from those arts started to click. Tai Chi has so much potential, lost be hind shit teachers and mysticism. Taichi is a great art to learn as a secondary or tertiary art and i think people really need to let go of it being trash.
Tai chi for the life win !
Showcase it, and they will learn
WHERE did you learn Hung Gar?
@@teamfingahs4907 a school on Long Island in New York!
no style is trash ok.
PRACTITIONERS ARE WHAT IS TRASH.
When two people spar, the winner is not a style. It's a person. It's NOT Karate vs BJJ. It's this particular practitioner of Karate vs this particular practitioner of BJJ.
That's what these young commenters don't understand.
Ok look.
Formula One race.
There's a standard formula car right? Nobody can go out there with five times more horsepower than the other guys. All standard cars.
So I want you "BJJ is the only effective system" types to tell me...WHY IS THERE A WINNER IN FORMULA ONE???
Or for that matter....why are there winners in BJJ? Both are using the only effective possible system right? Shouldn't it be a draw every time?
Maybe other factors are more important than what style you're using? Is that possible?
It is INSANELY difficult to unbalance anyone significantly trained in Tai Chi. Their root is amazing.
It's called a double leg.
@@dacedebeer2697 key phrase "significantly trained".
And I'd listen to Sifu Izzo regarding martial arts long before I would most others.
Who wants to unbalance them. Just a one two will do it and that will unbalance them anyway
I agree. I trained with a guy who had trained Chen Tai Chi with Ren Guan Yi......he trained Silat with me and we weren't much different in weight but there was an arm wrap takedown attempt I tried while he had loose arms and relaxed body and I couldn't unbalance him at all. I couldn't even make his weight shift to his heels or stumble. When I did the takedown on me all he did was shook his waist and I flew around his body like a little kid. His striking techniques felt like getting hit with a delayed battering ram........like one.....TWO! Initial hit then huge percussive thud/reverberation
Maybe significantly skilled is a better word, but I know what you mean. Isn't it best to train with a significantly trained partner. How else to get better?
Ramsey, I would LOVE more breakdowns of specific tai chi movements as true fighting techniques. Please do more videos on this!
Lets get heavy on the real tai chi , theres amazing chen and yang style masters, come on bring it let's see a tai chi master schooling mma dongs! Please! 🤙
Check out Ken Gullette if you want some fighting applications of tai chi!
Those who know generally don’t tell and if they do desire to tell their usually just getting familiar with the internet.
All of them are. You just have to know how to use them.
Same for any other style.
@@justinsnow3979
"Check out Ken Gullette if you want some fighting applications of tai chi!
"
Shouldn't we ask a Chinese-American guy? It's his culture after all. Why would we go to white people to learn Asian culture.
Ramsey! Context is for "Kings," as this makes shadow boxing, shadow wrestling, etc. meaningful. Thank you for the lesson. Pure respect.
Context is King!
Cockroach kung fu would be pretty awesome. They're really hard to kill.
LMAOOOO
Extremely well said!
I started my martial art career doing tai chi chuan and my first teacher, the first lesson, has been very very honest. He went: "Traditionally Tai Chi was a secret discipline, taught to family members and to people who were already black belts (whatever it meant at that time) in an 'external martial art'. Nowadays...well...let's start the lesson".
It took me two decades of martial arts with contact and your video where you grab the foot of the opponent and do the circular movement, to understand what my first teacher meant.
Thanks!
Real Tai Chi is an internal martial art that is deadly. Now think about it, why would someone teach a lot of people how to go around killing other people? They wouldn't, and didn't... they just taught a fake version of it so they got PAID for classes. To learn real Tai Chi you have to do years of meditation (Nei Gong) along with years or decades of hard wrestling or boxing and fighting along with years of the kata (Tai Chi forms.) Most masters I've seen went from the HARD martial arts then to the SOFT martial arts... because you have to build up tremendous power to be soft. Being soft takes HARD... it's the Yin/Yang... It won't work unless your teacher is a real master and willing to teach you the real secrets that could allow you to kill him. Traditionally real martial arts masters never taught the real things just out of self preservation. And the internal aspect is the hardest part of the whole thing and borders on spiritual possession, that's why I stopped training martial arts.
This two part series explains more, but not everything, since they don't teach everything to everyone, like I said. The master show in in this video is just a student but everyone sees him as a master which he even says he is not when he says he doesn't know how it works.
czcams.com/video/WGEP5X78G1w/video.html
It is not magic
@@jacobmansfield-go9fz of course it's not...once you know how it works.
Hot take: even as it is taught now, Tai chi IS one of the best martial arts ever because it has been proven extremely effective.
Effective against sedentarism that is. As sad as it is that the meaning and practical applications of the art have been misunderstood, it is a net positive that thousands of older people practice the forms because it keeps them active. And that's worth more than even the best trained punching technique for the vast majority of people.
It helps millions win the fight against heart disease and diabetes.
@E The point of the video is that, when properly practiced and trained, Tai chi is a great practical martial art.
My take is that even poorly taught larping is great because of the health benefits.
I remember a capoeira mestre getting asked (as usual) whether capoeira was any good for self defence: "First of all, let's be realistic - most of us are going to die in hospital with tubes stikcing out of us."
Came here to say this
It is so effective that a university in TEXAS has a coach making people practice it so they could hit high speed better.
As someone that taught traditional Tai Chi (Yang style) and Kung Fu (Choy Li Fut) for five years, I LOVE this video and I'm so happy someone is acknowledging that Tai Chi is a grappling style.
I'd love to hear your thoughts on Choy Li Fut in a video, too.
I'll tell you what my CLF instructor told me when I asked about how CLF should look in application. He said, "Watch Marvin Hagler". I can be a little more specific than that. Watch Marvin Hagler's footwork and turn all those big arm circles in the form into smaller, tighter circles. The big circles teach the full range of motion and force good body mechanics, but are not application. This YT channel has great breakdowns of mechanics. I'd also say watch Ramon Dekkers as well. Slight lateral shifts open holes in the opponent's defense.
czcams.com/video/xnLMUy2ifFs/video.html
This is one of the things I appreciated about my Soo Bahk Do instructors. The Kyo Sa (head instructor) was a patrol officer in a violent area for ten-years and used his art in the real-world and the Sa Bom (Master instructor, dojang owner) was a US ranked fighter in the '80s. We learned the applications for everything as we were learning. For example, you know that thing that looks like you're two-hand punching (or throwing a hyoducken) someone with your rear hand over your head, punching to their face, and your lead hand punching their chest? Wrong application. It's a high block and an upper cut (or shovel jab), thrown at the same time. That block can be hard style like blocking a round kick in kickboxing or it can be soft style and redirect into a grab, while the strike disrupts their reaction for a moment... and maybe KO's them if you're fortunate. The important thing to remember is that, in practical application, you won't perform this the same way you do while it's in the hyung (kata). It has to be free-sparred and trained to work in practical application before you can use it. We can see this practical application in Muay Thai's long guard. The lead-hand blocks an incoming rear-hand from your opponent and you respond with a cross. You can clinch from that block or you can clear. Same same, different arts.
Thank you for the explanation.
No one uses long guard to throw a cross in Muay Thai, and certainly not at the same time, it would be long guard, then cross. Link a single video where someone uses a long guard and punches at the same time please.
@@cheeks7050 I would also like to see the presentations to understand better
Can you record presentations?
I think Ramsey will be happy to show on his channel after all, we're all here to learn something new
correct. This sort of understanding comes with age and experience. The young kids will say "there are certain magic arts and nothing can stop them". Guys with experience say "if you're so good, you should be able to make anything work, it's the artist not the art".
I have to say, this was great, because I saw that previous video about the 80-year-old person, and that he was an expert grappler, and I think about that more and more as I get more grappling experience. And no joke, the other day one of the white belts straight-up said "sometimes it looks like you're doing kung fu", or something like that.
Mind blown. Thanks for the great videos!
My first introduction into martial arts was 7 years ago when I started learning tai chi from a friend who had studied it his whole life and had even spent some months at the Chen village in China. I’ve trained it ever since. Alongside it however, I devolved a deep passion for all martial arts and began practicing wing chun, Brazilian jiu jitsu, and baguazhang. In the begging, martial was vastly too complex for me to fathom in it’s entirety but I’ve come to learn that it is the absolute truth in life and that it applies in all contexts. That being said, Tai Chi has gifted me with not only its physical movements and flexibility, but if you take the time to dive into the true tradition of what Tai Chi is the wealth of information and perspective it has to offer is unparalleled in my eyes. It is the art of fighting without fighting and using the opponent to offset himself, not only physically but mentally and spiritually. A master is masterful regardless of his style, not because of what he knows, but how he knows it. There are many ways to plow a field but Tai Chi will teach you to plow it well, as efficiently as you can, with a smile on your face. And that is something I’ve carried through the door of every martial arts class I’ve had since. Thank you very much for your Videos Ramsey, blessings be with you, the people of China and the whole world. We are all one family. To anyone who actually read this, thank you sincerely and good luck on your journey. I would like nothing more for us all to hold hands at the top of the mountain.
I was with you until the last sentence, lol. How about a nod or a smile instead, on the top of the mountain?
Woah you also do Baguazhang!!
I agree with many things that you said but not about Taichi being unparalleled on the ways you described it. There are many arts that do or try to do exactly what you described, fighting without fighting, using their power against them, defeating them spirituallly and such, you are describing Aikido! Judo also tries to get into the same ground.
But yes, yes Taichi is awesome and it deserves better, many Chinese martial arts do (like Baguazhan and Bajiquan) but they are labeled as useless because of bad teachers and lost training methods (i think)
@@jestfullgremblim8002 you’re correct. It was a bit arrogant for me to put it that way. I believe what I meant was that it was the one branch of teachings that allowed me to see things clearly for the first time and so it is one I hold very dear. Thank you
@@shawnmorgan7834 Oh that's alright, pal. Taichi sure has a lot that people just don't see, it happens with many martial arts :'(
Taijiquan is a fantastic supplement to all those other arts you mention. Taiji teaches you how to make your waist strong and flexible.
I'm not sure most people get that from training Tai Chi, at least I didn't despite training for several years, including in China with some pretty good teacher's. I did get that from training Gymnastics though, which also gives you many other benefits like crazy strength.
It helps with everyday stuff too, like sinking into the ground when you trip over something.
@@AveSicarius I got 25+ years, still not even close to mastering it.
@@rolandotillit2867 sounds like you got bad teacher if you're learning 25+ years but never mastered it
@@HiroIndo16 nah, i'm no Taijiquan person, but let me tell you that even 25+ years aren't enough to master Judo, so as Taichi is another art that tries to use the opponent's momentum against them and also some strikes, i can actually see it taking a lot of time to actually "master" all of it. Now then, there are a lot of Judo techniques, i do not know how many are there for Taiji
I see taichi as a wrestling based art with some "dirty" close range strikes and some moves can make a lot of sense with a dagger. Today it has evolved as a physical and mental health art for people who are not able to do the harder ones.
I'm getting close to 70 and it's about all I can practice anymore. If I get in a fight at the nursing home, it's going to be a lot of slow moving and pushing anyway. Perfect.
@@sweynforkbeard8857 Who knows,maybe in a emergency situation you can still concentrate the chi and deliver a deadly fingers strike to a weak spot.
@@clementfleury1913 Good idea, I will attack their oxygen hose. That stops them every time.
It is very wrestling based. When I first learned tai chi, it was heavily connected to shuai jiao(basically Chinese Wresling) for applications.
Dirty? Lol
Taiji has just as much striking as it does grappling. Many more people focus on the grappling side, but there are still very good teachers out there who teach the striking.
The key point is that the striking is executed in conjunction with grappling.
Otherwise it's not a good striking system.
Grapple-boxing? @@BWater-yq3jx
If the author of the question sees this, I went through the same questioning as you and went through different kung fu and taiji and modern combat teachings including a few years of full-time training.
Here are my two cents:
Check out the video 'Introduciton to authentic Taiji' on the Tri-Essence Martial Arts channel. You will find there a down to earth introduction from someone who has actual fighting skill, has insight into chinese culture, and has met many masters of the internal martial arts and devoted most of his life to it.
Additionally check out the channel Ziran Men: another of the internal Chinese martial arts (neijiaquan) which is the system I ended up training currently after extensive research.
The good teachers are out there but really rare and hard to find, don't go for a preference of style go for a good teacher. Ask them to demonstrate, if they can't do much they won't guide you very far.
You don't really have a reason to trust me on this, but don't reverse engineer the forms, don't learn forms on the internet, don't even do forms. Taiji is something else, it is specific mechanics and conditioning, not a set of moves.
I taught taijiquan for years privately. People have serious misunderstandings about taijiquan. I told students if you want to fight in 6 mth go learn boxing or muay Thai but if you want to be able to defend yourself in your 80s ok, train with me. Students that had martial arts background grasp the combat aspect at beginner level first, however they focus on the form as shadow boxing (beginner level). Yes at beginner level there are grappling, striking ect contained in each posture but focusing on applications you won't get taiji and you will never be able to use "applications " under real chaotic combat. Each posture is to teach principles in power generation and is done internally, the posture shape helps you learn that principle and can then be tested for quality
etc. Taijiquan is a set of combat/power generating principles, fighting with taijiquan will not look like a Donny Yen movie it will look like fighting.
How do I know this? I lived as an inner door disciple with my sifu and Dai Sifu, and worked as a bouncer in Phuket bars (Southern Thailand).
Taiji works, few understand it, fewer have the authentic transmission and even less can identify the authentic from hand waving slow steppers.
I also recommend serious taijiquan boxing students after a couple of years start gently sparring with mma, muay Thai etc. increasing intensity over time as confidence builds. Here is the kicker - my first taijiquan sifu made me spar different styles every class and taught us a bit of boxing, judo, shaolin
style boxing etc so we could deal with them better, most taijiquan schools don't so the combat tradition is broken. An authentic taijiquan master will have a verifiable lineage and high level of skill that will seem magical to those that don't understand (it's not magical, it's movement is just so refined it looks like that), learn the principles of taijiquan (supreme ultimate fist) then go to a mma gym to learn the principles of actual combat.
Here is a test for you to find a "master" ( of which I am not ) - if he claims he is a taijiquan master offer him your forearm, if without an almost imperceptible touch take your centre and balance (it should feel like marbles under your feet) he won't be able to teach the combat aspects, if he can't can't "pop" or bounce you with a small movement he won't be able to teach authentic taijiquan.
However remember this, any movement is good for you so whether it's authentic martial taijiquan or arm waving slow stepping tai chi in the park it is good for you. 99% will never be in a situations where they will need authentic taijiquan skill anyway.
Respect from a retired single dad on the Thai/Laos border.
Random Tai Chi dad your words will not be forgotten ans will be annulled in a kung fu knowledge folder
@@ppp123asdf even better if the prospective student is song and has a slippery centre. Even better test of skill.
So true. I have the honor of meeting several masters who by respect of the form and culture would not call themselves such. However the feeling of them taking you off balance to show you concepts and the internal realities, I will never ever forget. It was the weirdest feeling, but super inspiring for where one can go with the form.
I’m with ya one what you said around the 9 minute mark about people thinking Tai Chi is something else besides grappling. I’ve had so many people look at me in shock when they ask me to teach them and they find out Tai Chi is only 2 things. Grappling and hard work.
Lots and lots of hard work.
The sparring session in the background speaks volumes to your skill knowledge. Please keep doing what you’re doing and sharing these videos.
Fascinating! Thanks Ramsey!
Great video! I've always said that Tai Chi is the most practical martial art I've ever studied. It is definitely applicable to combat imo, but also so applicable to every day life in teaching your body to move through space and exert force efficiently and safely for your body. As most of us don't fight daily, that is much more useful for pushing things, lifting things, opening and closing things, etc. As far as teachers, I believe William C.C. Chen is still alive and teaching in NYC. I did not study from him directly but some of his students and it was an awesome experience.
Fun fact... one of BJJ Legend Marcelo Garcia's best students is Josh Waitzkin (former child prodigy in Chess), Josh is a fantastic Taiji Push Hands champion, as well as being a phenomenal BJJ player. His style is "William C.C. Chen" style.
Jan Lucanus is a Taiji student of Josh and has a youtube channel where he shows fantastic takedown defense and control using his Taiji vs BJJ and Judo/MMA competitors.
czcams.com/users/WorldPushHands
Always enlightening. Thank you sir.
Hello everyone, I'd like to say I really appreciate your videos they have brought me joy and calm through these tough times and also push me to keep working on stuff even when I have set backs. The other thing is after watching this video and going to the gym I think I had one of those lightbulb moments. I was shadow boxing between sets and was nearing the end when I tried incorporating the punch kata from taekwondo from a jab and my cross felt more crisp, faster, and a bit more powerful and then it hit me that I think you had a video on this, gabriel varga had one, sylvie von Douglass of the muai thai library, and a few others talk about not just throwing the punch out but the retraction is also important and I tried to remember that and practice it but it never hit me at to other reasons why other that defense until watching this video and trying it with a new thought process. Thank you again, your videos are much appreciated. Sorry for the long comment I was just kungfu panda excited after getting my light bulb moment lol.
My uncle has been doing various martial arts since the early 70s. Started off in Karate he’s a black belt. Did Wushu for awhile. But he has been doing Tai Chi for 40 years. He says it is by far its the best style he has learned. My uncle would go all over the states to exhibition and competitions. But he did always tell me you better learn how to fight on the ground though. When he would train me we would just wear sweat pants and a tee shirt. He showed me things he thought were useful out of all the styles he learned. But we would always do Tai chi exercises and kata. Then we would lightly spare what he showed me. I was 11when I stated and he was in his late 30s. Even now he is in way better shape than most 20 year olds and he’s in his late 60s.
I did taiji after learning karate and MMA and your right, it's good to reverse engineer.
Ramsey, Matt’s (long!) lifetime martial artist dad here. Still study including on YT to refine my art and to adapt it to getting older. Yours is one of just a small handful of channels that are always useful and always interesting.
If you haven’t discovered Chadi check out his amazing historical martial arts videos collection.
I knew a direct student of Professor Cheng and I have experienced how powerful and subtle true tai chi is.
All the best to you. Praying for you and the dicey situation where you are.
Just for a laugh, you are probably the Stephon Marbury (“Starbury”) of martial arts.
This is one of the more truly educational videos I've seen recently. I had no clue that there was so much to this art.
This is a great perspective coach. No one regains Tai Chi's combat applications like you do. Let's hope combat-effective Tai Chi grappling becomes more popular over time. That's the best way to preserve its history
P.s. Tanglang 螳螂 is mantis, zhanglang 蟑螂 is cockroach ;)
I like how Ramsey shows his true respect for Tai chi because he knows from experience what it really is for, there is combat with proper breathing (the "Chi" part). He's explained so much and respects those who enjoying the forms because now he can play with them to see how they can be applied in combat.
Hope to see Ramsey talk about Bajiquan, the eight extremities fist and known as the art of the bodyguard.
The “chi” part of tai chi is a confusing spelling error thanks to the antiquated Wade Giles romanization of Mandarin. It’s not really tai chi, it’s taiji 太极 (not 太气）
@@RamseyDewey oh I see. Makes sense now. Thanks for that tidbit!🙂😁
You changed my view of fighters, thank you. Your the only one I follow. Not because of your fighting ability, but rather because of your authenticity and work ethic. Thank you for your example.
Great video!
The way I practice my Tai Chi is that I don't think of it as practicing a "technique", it's practicing a movement. Techniques can be used at the wrong time, but movements are different. When do you use that movement? You use it when you do it, movement usually doesn't require a lot of planning. It's easy to get distracted with technique and doing them "right" or proper. But an actual fight is so mobile and chaotic, you can only REALLY practice moving in that mobile/chaotic environment. So when you move in that way, you've practiced moving in that way from Tai Chi, so your movement is efficient and you're not mentally noting that your technique is terribly wrong. That is what Martial Arts is about. Being Artistic in your Martial movements. Any movement you make, as a martial artist, is part of your art. Tai Chi helps me see every movement as a technique as opposed to "Footwork is required for Positioning which is required for proper Technique".
It's challenging to even try to describe the perspective in which Tai Chi has it's most value. If you were to ask me "should I learn Tai Chi so I can fight", my answer would be "heck no". However, if I knew you practiced fighting or any martial art, I would likely recommend learning Tai Chi.
It is a supplement that quickly takes its place as the implement as soon as the practitioner realizes it. I hope that makes sense.
Thanks for your content Ramsey, I learn a lot from you.
Description like from some anime episode ...at the moment when someone knocks you to the ground and starts choking your joints, you need to know exactly what technique is attacking you, otherwise you won't do anything
@@CZcamsChillZone I agree with you in essence, you do need to know how to render an attack ineffective. However, you do not need to disassemble every detail of a technique to render it ineffective, you only need to know which smaller movements disassemble certain parts of the technique. This is kind of why Tai Chi is so difficult to really explain why it works so well, definitions of words get in the way, of it relies on abstract application to a certain degree. That's really where people get turned off as they think that immediately means it's woo woo.
@@CZcamsChillZone
"at the moment when someone knocks you to the ground and starts choking your joints"
or you could, you know, just not allow them to knock you to the ground. Just sayin.
(let me guess...BJJ is the only effective system, it's magical, no one can stop you from doing a takedown because you magic powers, right, kid? You realize what you sound like right now right? Just like those guys in the 80s and 90s who said Karate and later Taekwondo were magical. Guess what, no magic arts. Somebody is out there who can stop you from taking them down.)
I'm a Tai Chi Chuan practitioner, and phisiotherapist using Tai Chi with my patients.
I agree with you Ramsey!
In order to practice sparring I train with friends at a bare knuckle boxing gym for stiking and Judo and Ju Jutsu practitioners for grappling. To this day I can't think of a Tai Chi practitioner with whom I'd spar to mantain my (waning) fighting skills.
When it comes to health it's EVEN WORSE!!!
I actualy treated patients with Parkinson's disease, multiple sclerosis, and neurological as well as orthopedic conditions, so I do know how to usee Tai Chi for health; I do not tell my patients I teach them Tai Chi! I just get them to do movements they are familiar, using the principles and leg stances of tai chi.
most of famous "masters" i hear quoting papers found on pub med are basically using them for marketing their prodct. Very few can provide a living proof of someone recovering from a condition!
I'd add to your advice to question any claims and ask for tangible proof!
I really liked the background of applications played in combat sport training and sparring. Showing you're more than your words. well played and well made.
Yes, demonstrating what these forms do in a fight would be really informative.
I would love to see Coach Ramsey one day do HEMA. I think he would absolutely dominate everyone! Love from a fellow MMA, HEMA and medieval enthusiast, cheers!
I dunno if that's in his wheelhouse, but it'd be cool! I strongly recommend you check out his video on sword and shield fighting though. He's got like one or two videos demonstrating how sword/shield fighting have essentially the same concepts as barehanded fighting.
@@ChateauLonLon I’ve seen those! Excellent videos!
6:12 "Tang lang" (螳螂) means Praying Mantis in Mandarin, "Zhang Lang" (蟑螂) means cockroach in Mandarin, just to clear up the confusion.
Thanks for the vids coach, keep up the good work 💪🏼💪🏼💪🏼
Thank you. I would love to see more videos like this
I’ve got a whole playlist of taichi related videos on my channel
That was beautiful Ramsay. Thanks for giving Taiji a bit of love that was deserved.
I'm not great at fighting by any stretch of the imagination--not against a real fighter, anyway (I'd get absolutely crushed by a real fighter). Most bullies aren't real fighters, so they usually just back down when I stand my ground and show I'm willing to defend myself. But I've loved Taijiquan ever since I got interested in martial arts as a kid, even though it didn't make a lot of sense to me as a combat art the way it was being taught (other than improving my balance and coordination).
It wasn't until I learned a few grappling techniques when I was older that some of the Taijiquan forms made more sense to me. I had a couple of "Oh, that's how it's supposed to work," moments. I love that you've done a few videos on the topic--it feels a bit like vindication. Lol!
Thanks for the fair comments on the sad state of Taijiquan as it is commonly practised nowadays and how the art actually has lots to offer to close combat. Sharing my thoughts as a Taijiquan practitioner, started from back before I did Judo and Kudo MMA, and also as a native Chinese speaker who reads the classic texts. There are 3 components to Taijiquan:
(1) The forms, techniques and movements which people usually see as what they believe is Taijiquan. As Ramsey said, lots of valuable reference materials for grappling (unbalancing, throws, standing joint locks, etc.) as well as striking and footwork. They really came to life for me after I trained in Judo and later Korindo Aikido.
(2) The biomechanical principles and methodology. Most people, even amongst Taijiquan practitioners, don't know much about this and in many cases frankly got it wrong. For example, the popular modern teaching of constantly relaxing is not found in the old Taijiquan classic texts. No, it has to do with using connective tissues to get the joints into specific alignments and rotations, kinetic linking, breathing in specific ways and often holding in air and compress it with the diaphragm and other muscles to manipulate intra-abdominal pressure, manipulating other fluid pressure in the torso and limbs and basically utilising the body as a hydraulic drive system.
(3) The strategic, tactical and philosophical aspect. At its core is the concept of taiji, which in classical Chinese philosophy means unity or "oneness". (Yes, the characters separately mean "grand extreme" - well, what is bigger than the ultimate oneness that we call the universe?) Taijiquan's combative approach is based on integrating opposing things, not separating the whole into yin and yang. The main one is enabling and controlling the interaction between force/momentum/velocity in three dimensions and the dimensionless pressure in the body. Taijiquan in its purest form does not like evading or parrying an incoming attack. Instead it prefers to intercept it and thereby "merging with" its force and repelling it, not with an opposing force but with fluid pressure, hence with the efficiency you'd expect from a hydraulic drive system.
Ramsey I found your channel not too long ago but I've watched a good amount of your videos. You always talk about interesting things
Catching kicks is badass :D when it works, it always looks so cool!
I followed a similar path. I spent many years studying hard fighting. After about 15 years, I stated in on Tai-Chi. There was little by way of 'technique' in it that was applicable to the combatives I had previously used (at least not where I trained), but there were some very subtle 'principles' which I got to practice and focus on. It was after many years of such Tai-Chi that I unfortunately found myself in a few situations in which I had to apply my martial arts. Interestingly, each time it was the time I had spent in Tai-Chi that did the job. It was the principles I had 'mastered' in Tai-Chi that swayed the day.
This mirrors my experience as well. If it wasn't for taichi I would have had some very unpleasant experiences.
Sounds like a load of bollocks.
Taiji doesn't really mean "the highest form of combat" at all. The "Taiji" of Taijiquan is a reference to the cosmological principle of an absolute state where space and time expand to their maximum extent as opposed to the "Wuji", or void, that precedes it. The state of Taiji ultimately collapses to relativity and infinite change (yin-yang [light-dark, up-down, left-right] and wuxing [five element rotations]) respectively, creating the reality as we experience it. Taijiquan is only named after this principle.
This is also a technical description of Taijiquan, since it teaches one to expand their posture "internally" to the six direction, extending the spine simultaneously up and down and opening and stretching the joints of the limbs. This kind of body has no weak angles and can be dictated and guided by the movement of one's center of gravity, ie. dantian. That's why standing post training and the _long_ solo form are so emphasized in the practice: you can only do postural adjustment via solo work.
The name taijiquan was first given to Yang Luchan's boxing (previously known as cotton fist/Yang family fist) by a poet in the Qing court because his boxing was like a physical expression of the Taoist concept of taiji.
@@emptyemptiness8372 Which is very much in line with my previous comment as well! :)
Yes that is right, I'm not sure why a video being critical of this excellent system of martial art has been posted by someone who doesn't even know what the name means. Very odd and rather arrogant.
@@TheRetroman68 the problem is few people have the authentic transmission of taijiquan and even less are able to manifest the principles under the stress combat because lineages have been broken over the last 100 yrs.
Yang taijiquan has not produced any real fighters that live up to the reputation of supreme ultimate fist since Yang Shao Hao (his younger brother Yang Cheng Fu was not interested in fighting and most Yang style taiji today comes down from him) and his uncle Yang Ban Hao. Chen(if you include Chen as taiji) hasnt produced a real fighter that takes challenges since Chen Fa Ke and I don't think Sun style has produced a serious fighter since its founder Sun Lutang.
@@emptyemptiness8372 I'm from the Cheng Tin Hung Wudang Tai Chi. It has produced full contact fighters .
Dude great video man
Great video.
As someone who trained for years in a traditional kung fu school (mostly Yang style Tai Chi and Northern Praying Mantis) I can say that I agree pretty much 100% with what you've said. There were some people in our school who could actually use Tai Chi for fighting but all of them, no exception whatsoever, had had a lot of experience in combat sports such as MMA, boxing, wrestling, etc. Most of the other students (myself included) were pretty unathletic and would, without a doubt, get destroyed in anything close to a real fight. And this was not a McDojo but a traditional school with a qualified teacher. Thing is, most people who decide to pick up Tai Chi these days are not interested in fighting but instead they do it for health, longevity, spiritual reasons, etc. And while the mysticism of Tai Chi might be a delusion, the health&longevity aspect can be real - our Sifu was already in his late 60s but could still do full splits and head kicks, was strong as hell, and in great shape overall.
I do Kyokushin, judo and muay thai. Would love it if you made some videos on applying some of the kyokushin kata. While i feel that doing kata has helped me develop more control, snap and body sensitivity when it comes to striking, i often feel kind of confused as to what the purpose of some of the movements are.
Man, I miss doing Kyokushin
I do Okinawan Karate and I know exactly what you mean. I've found, after years of looking for answers, that a good rule of thumb is, if it doesn't seem to make sense, it's probably a grappling move.
@@varanid9 yeah, i was often confused by many of the circular, flowing techniques of goju style kata (Sanchin, tensho etc.) but find that they tend to be some kind of pummeling, hand fighting or clinching. I love discovering the many different ways the same techniques can be applied.
I think the issue with Karate kata is that they've been so changed from the original form (though Kyokushin isn't as bad as Shotokan in that regard), that working out exactly what the movements correspond to is very difficult. Especially because you might already be training some of the Bunkai in sparring without even realizing.
It's also very difficult because all Karate has become far more striking focused, and the kata reflects this, the traditional style was more focused on grappling however. The majority of techniques are intended to be used around standup grappling, and the approach leading up to this, much like traditional Boxing. Fast linear strikes to the face and body, with some low kicks to damage mobility or target the lower abdomen, followed by clinching, where short powerful strikes like elbows, knees, or hook-/uppercut-like strikes with the hands (which do exist in Karate kata), attacks to the legs to try and off-balance your opponent, throws and sweeps after you gain an advantage in the clinch, and finishing strikes to the floored opponent, or even standing submissions. This is the focus of Karate, and so this is how you should approach the Kata. Usually they proceed along a simulated sequence of events where you strike, grapple, sweep/throw/trip, and finish in some way, but since these were adapted by people in recent generations with striking in mind, this isn't always obvious. Kyokushin at least fights heavily around clinch range, and you learn those lovely chest to chest high kicks, so I'd say have a look at the Kata you want to dissect, and think of it in terms of an open (i.e. limited or no rules) fight. Consider distance, where your hands are, and what the next action is likely to be. Then get a friend to spar with, ask them to attack you lightly, with takedowns and clinching allowed, and see where it goes.
Kata will definitely help you with the basics of technique though, if only because you learn good hip movement, footwork, and relaxation/contraction timing. I had that even with Shotokan, which also gave me pretty good timing, but trying to work out what they actually meant is almost always more effort than it's worth unless you are someone like Iain Abernathy who makes money from doing so haha.
I think as a rule of thumb though, circular movements are likely to be involved with grappling techniques, such as moving arms out of the way to establish a controlling position, stuffing a strike in the clinch, fighting for hooks or ties as Ramsey has said before, or being used to setup a throw (such as a morote or ippon seoi nage where the arms move around and under the arm or shoulder) or joint lock.
@@WilliamTheViking I did Uechi Ryo for a while, but it wasn't 'till I met a Southern Mantis boxing instructor that I understood what a lot of it was actually supposed to be.
Only just got to watch this, thank you so so much for answering!!! I never imagined it would be enough to make a video, I'm truly honored.
You are welcome! Thanks for the great question!
I read many years ago a quote by a Chinese Tai Chi Chuan master named Cheng Man Ching, ( traditional Yang style) who wrote he first studied Hsing I, then when he mastered this he studied Pa Kua, and finally Tai Chi Chuan. Because without the foundations of the others Tai Chi was beyond learning. I believe Tai Chi Chuan translates as Supreme Ultimate.
That's not Cheng Man Ching. He never learned Xing Yi Quan nor Bagua Zhang.
You're talking about Sun Lu Tang. The grandmaster of the three internal martial arts.
Nope. Chen Man Ching is someone else.
I’ve possibly misremembered his name but I don’t think so. I had the book written by his student .@@joshpickles9022
I’ve possibly remembered the correct name of the founder of the Yang style in the west but misapplied the quote . The principle still applies though and is my error in crediting his saying it when another did. @@KelGhu
I think it was my quote that has been misattributed to him when it was another’s , my error .hands up !
You were right to say Táng Láng(mantis), Zhāng Láng(cockroach) also has the Láng.
There is a mantis boxing school in my city. We need to learn chinese language so that we can troll them properly.
Awesome video, funny too! Thanks
Totally related, you have a great voice for this!
Great video. Thank you! I teach Chen taiji in USA. It always seemed weird to me that forms are generally taught without applications. At the foundation of taiji are the six harmonies which includes intention leading your energy. How can a student learn a movement in a form with out applications so they have intention when they practice? Some teachers believe applications should not be taught until students are proficient in form. I disagree. How can a student become proficient in form if they have no intention behind it?
Its in interesting discussion to be had about this. I use to do Tai Chi, Kung Fu and San Da. I turned 20 and had a sort of mid life crises concerning the fact I never did martial arts. I gravitated towards a Shaolin school because of the energy it gave. It was fun but eventually I injured myself and had to stop after oh give or take 2 years. It would take around 10 to get a black belt at that school so I wasnt high in rank so take what I say with a grain of salt. With 20/20 hindsight I wanted to believe in the art yet there was a lingering doubt in my heart about it. You would do things and not understand why or what for. Mcdojos are rampant in the tradition MA community. This doesnt help if you have issues with imposter syndrome as well. Later after I got better I became a hema fencer because I was envious of not doing martial arts and fencing with longswords sounded awesome. I felt sort of safe doing it because I wasnt doing advanced calisthenics and gymnastics because alot of those techniques would agitate my back injury.
My favorite treatises were Italian, mainly Fiore. It was Fiore that made everything click, it was almost like a plateau breaker. The grappling in Fiore rhymes Heavily with Tai Chi. The legend on the Fiore map helped me find where tai chi was in the territory even though it was a different tradition, region and era. Tai Chi and other eastern martial arts are REAL! It is merely A victim of its own success and modern happenstance like many other TMA's.
what I mean by victim is this:
-Tai Chi was out shadowed by itself. Its health benefits washed out its martial culture. Really its the same with other TMA's. The health benefits are important but it cant be stressed enough how it accidentally watered down the arts.
-TMA's in general dont understand this key rule of thumb. TMA's in the east had THREE branches which were all important and needed in their own way. Those branches being Martial, Religious and Theater. In the modern era they have been fused together in this messed up Frankenstein and instead of synergizing and complementing each other they are parasitic to each other. These three branches are important in their own way and must be respected in their own context. This does not occur and now the house is divided. You are not allowed to separate them in their own context now. Dont think im picking on China either. This can be argued about other traditions. Sumo is actually a perfect example because it also has a internal conflict of all three of these branches. A sumo Yokozuna has to be the martial artist, a religious avatar of shinto warding evil spirits with salt and stomps yet is also being a theater performer with their matches then being a host at charities for their stables. They wear many hats, have many responsibilities, cannot do all of them at once, thus they feel under appreciated and overworked. This rhymes heavily with their Chinese counterparts.
-Their living traditions overshadowed their written traditions. This may surprise people but actually they have a large source of treatises as well. They just arent really represented. There are some channels that discuss it. two examples being The Scholar-General 墨將點兵 and ChineseLongsword. Perhaps there are more on non English speaking channels? It seems like its not really mentioned at all. Living traditions are important. But the written tradition is just as important in my opinion.
-Politics have derailed their art. and example being Xu Xiaodong pointing out clear issues in his mma community but being accused of being a traitor and get blacklisted from everything. They fail to understand the three branches of eastern martial arts. Xu is absolutely correct in his concerns. If people mistake the other two branches for the martial tradition it will only make their countries MA weaker yet they believe he is attacking tradition. He is merely trying to maintain its balance. But it appears its a cultural taboo for him to speak out. I have no problem being the "loud American" the east seems to like to hire to negate that issue.
-They need to lay back on other miscellaneous issues. An example being meat eating. It would be hard for a lot of martial artists to compete if they ate a meatless diet. Perhaps they were fine in previous eras but now its a large handicap. It also needs to be socially acceptable for a martial artist to lose. It seems like they disown you if you fail which shouldnt be the case. failure is a great friend and teacher.
They need to revolve these issues if they want to survive and thrive. On paper it should be easy for practitioners to separate into these categories but certain religious or theater type masters probably dont want to lose the status of the martial type masters. If it was socially acceptable for martial types to simply beat them in matches the issue would resolve itself but this is perceived as an attack on their country and religion.
Always, a, pleasure to listen to your views Ramsey.
I hope, things, improve for you there, in Shang Hai too
Don't be safe, be free
Thanks for the tips.
I've had a heavily experienced Tai chi teacher.
He's had a giant gut, invisible grappling powers and boy he controlled his striking since there was only one student as tall as him.
That student could fight 3 guys at a time (gloves and all).
Was that supposed to be "invincible grappling powers"? If no, could you explain what invisible grappling powers are?
@@Off-Brand_Devin most of his grappling, which is pulling, pushing, locking and pins were done at angles where I couldn't force myself out of them.
It made impression of invisible forces, where his body didn't exert strength to roll his students into pretzels.
@@manubishe Ah, cool. Thanks for the explanation.
A long time judo man once told me that he wished he had done Tai Chi instead of judo, so he would be free of injuries in his old age. That is something to think about. Yes, martial arts are very interesting and people should not get impairments through them. Cheers.
I mean wear and tear is unavoidable if you want to actually learn how to fight, because it requires significant athletic training. Tai Chi does not spar, it doesn't involve high impact athletic training, and it certainly doesn't involve conditioning. So yes, you aren't likely to get injured, but you also don't really gain anything practical either. Judo is a hard style, it involves being thrown on the floor, and throwing other's, thousands upon thousands of hours, and there isn't really anything you can do to avoid that. The same goes for wrestling or Sambo, it's pretty inevitable, just like striking puts serious stress on the knees and wrists.
You can avoid injury and stay fit, but you will never get to a high level unless you push your body hard. It's an unfortunate aspect of life, our bodies degrade over time, and you can certainly do a lot to prevent or slow this, but it is somewhat inevitable.
There's always a cost to anything we gain in life, you just need to decide on what's important to you.
“Tai Chi does not spar” FALSE. People who don’t know how to fight don’t spar. I still have injuries from sparring with a master of taiji and getting repeatedly thrown on stone tiles.
@@RamseyDewey
My point was more to do with the fact that the wear and tear from athletic conditioning is unavoidable, as is the damage you build up from sparring, and any form of conditioning that somewhat resembles an actual fight is always going to be high impact. Judo is obviously far more high impact that Tai Chi as it is trained now, and I would argue that if you were training Tai Chi like the grappling/striking hybrid style it is, instead of just a form of choreography, then it would most definitely be high impact because you would be throwing, being thrown, and eating strikes, as you describe. I think that would definitely cause the same problems when you are older, and any real practice for any martial art is going to have the same consequences. I think you can definitely lessen them through softer training, but I mean there's some level of unavoidable stress on the body, right? If we both trained in different martial arts but we both hard sparred, did athletic conditioning, and fought, we'd both end up taking inevitable injuries over time, and there is much you can do to prevent damage to cartilage aside from trying to avoid impact. OP seemed like he was saying that Tai Chi is preferable to Judo due to the injuries, I was just trying to point out that most people don't train Tai Chi like they train Judo, and if it was, you'd see the same injuries occur. If you get me?
I also mean in a general context, I believe you could state this and be true most of the time. Are there some people who practice Tai Chi and they do spar, doing more practical variations of push hands? Absolutely! But I think the vast majority of people who train Tai Chi do not do so in a way in which it would be practical, even if they do practice push hands. You could also make an argument that the only people who actually do spar with Tai Chi are those who've been trained in other martial arts (as the guy you talked about was) and then translated that knowledge to Tai Chi itself in order to find the practical elements, because, correct me if I'm wrong, but Tai Chi as a style was fundamentally changed during the Cultural Revolution, much like the vast majority of Chinese Martial Art's, and was saved largely because Mao found it very aesthetic, but it was saved in a non-practical form, with only the choreography of the forms being kept somewhat intact. The style is largely extinct as it was practiced before this as a result, and we certainly don't have guys like Yang Luchan running around anymore, and it's super uncommon to find someone that can actually grapple, let alone fight, with any of the Tai Chi styles. I mean I remember asking my Chen Tai Chi teacher about it when I lived in Hunan, and he just told me something along the lines of "if you want to fight go learn Sanda, but your body might not thank you for it". He was very strong for his age, and he had an extremely solid base with great balance, he probably could have been a very good grappler due to his years of training, we just never did the training like I had done in BJJ or Judo, it was all forms, and that's really my experience over years of Tai Chi, and I think it is most people's as a whole. If I could find a practical teacher, I'd of course love a few lesson's!
I know people who practice Aikido, and who can fight, but can they fight because they know Aikido? Or can they use Aikido in a fight because they already knew how to fight. I've had the same to be true with Tai Chi as well, and the only people I've known from training the style in China who actually had any idea what to do had trained Sanda, in the UK this was generally even worse, but I did have a teacher who was a blackbelt in old-school Taekwondo (the power-era style, and he had several teeth missing as a result of eating head kicks), and he could fight (though he was getting older), but I'd say that was due to the years of experience he had sparring in TKD. You can make almost anything work if you have enough experience, but most people might not have that experience or knowledge to do so, and might not train in the same way. My experience with Tai Chi is probably different to your's, and I don't think many people are so fortunate as you to meet someone like that. It's pretty rare to find a really competent martial artist in these kind of styles.
@@RamseyDewey I think you rather got injured, cause your master practiced too long Mantis and maybe wanted to teach you lesson for your high and mighty attitude. Actually it depends, Taiji cherishes the soft and is very fond of cultivating health, as long as you do not mount their legs to fuck with them, you stay unharmed. But if want a go they have no problem with throwing you into walls or tearing your sinews, it is china dewey, some masters even practice on animals how they best injure you
If you want good health Taiji is a good choice, you can do fight, but if you do not develop the techniques for steel wrapped in cotton, you get hurt like this fella in czcams.com/video/dTP16HPFMms/video.html , he gets pretty early almost KOed by the shoulder of the Taiji practitioner. If you are humble and just want to learn the system you can learn fight without getting hurt.
I know a tai chi instructor who is also a yoga instructor, he took up BJJ and got his purple belt really quickly (from a uk based adcc competitor), it wasn't just the flexibility but also like you mentioned before in another video movement unlocking those movements had been hardwired into his brain/body so from standing he was working on speed and detail.
Wetting my pants for the HEMA name-drop! I'm a HEMAist and I've studied MMA for decades now, and I love when there's crossover and mutual respect between the two arts. Also, just wanted to say that I appreciate your passionate syncretism. I love the context you give to traditional Asian martial arts that illuminates why they are the stylized forms they are and the ways in which they tie into real combat arts. Clearly the folks who practiced these arts in the past didn't set out with the intention to make them bullshido, and it's awesome to deconstruct and recontextualize their intended original purpose. Love your channel, my friend. Cheers!
Ian Sinclair has some good stuff on YT
When comes to tai chi i recomend chanel of ian sinclair he knows how fight and also he knows tai chi to a high degree and he not only teaches meanings of a movement but he focuses more of fighting principles in those movements that are pretty realistic
This video is great! my favorite part is all of the movement that happens behind the talking! I assume you are doing various forms and showing how it would be used in real fighting? Breakdowns of what is happening right there would be very very popular! Thanks so much for the content!
Those are clips from various technique videos on my channel. They’re organized into convenient playlists.
@@RamseyDewey thanks so much! I think the way you move is really beautiful to watch!
Awesome!
I've been doing taiji for a decade now. I can say that I really started understanding the form when I went to Sanda, Muay thai and wrestling.
A lot of obscure movements made a lot more sense.
And I believe now that you don't want to retro ingeneer the forms into fighting, but you actually want to learn techniques and sparr and then you'll find the meaning of the forms.
And to have a global understanding of the form, you need to explore a lot of different techniques.
Training mma, basically, will give substance to the taijiquan form.
And a big secret is that the form becomes a like mind palace where you store and review your techniques.
So for me each posture is like a folder with a bunch of different applications I learned in class.
It also makes learning new techniques so much easier.
I just have to refer the new technique to a posture that uses the same body mechanics.
Question:
1.Have you ever tried sparring two or more people at once?
2. If so, are there any unique strategies or concepts that you discovered to be effective?
3. Would you ever want to train with the express purpose of becoming better at fighting multiple attackers for a month or three?
Some tips, learned from experience:
Mobility is EVERYTHING, avoid going to the ground, avoid wrestling if at all possible.
Striking is your friend, in fact, insert the kobra kai mantra here. You need to take down one opponent as soon as you can, because once they are out of the fight, your wrestling and ground game comes back online.
Be aware of obstacles and use both them, and your opponent to frame your other opponent.
Try to escape if you can, any outnumbered unarmed fight is overwhelmingly against you unless you're big, really big, and your opponents aren't.
Consider the value of taking hits you wouldn't normally take, to decisively land one of your own if you think it can stop your opponent. You cannot win unless you first secure an incapacitation.
"Run like hell" is how you effectively deal with more than one person at a time. Even untrained folks are dangerous if they outnumber you.
Very objective perspective from Ramsey. GJ.
You are amazing RD! I wish to make it one day to China and do some training with you. I have been practicing taijiquan for many years since 1996. I am not a master… I have met several great masters though who taught me lots of useful things in connection to the practice of taiji. I have never fought ‘taij way’ until I joined a combined martial arts club and realised how natural the grappling is for me and my likeness for it! It all makes complete sense to me and you are a great hint of the fine vinegar to my life-long mastering knowledge. Xie xie!
Taijiquan practiononer of 24 years in Chen Man Ching style. Competitor and gold medalist in multiple competitions in form, fixed and moving push hands.. Taijiquan must be understood as the embodiment of the tao manifesting in a martial movement with the emphasis as an art. Taijiquan is not singularly a "grappling" technique - however, due to the philosophy it may be expressed as one when the concepts and philosophers are applied.
Other than that, great video I enjoy your video. Cheers.
Personally I think Taijiquan, specifically Chen Style Taijiquan, is a valid/practical fighting style. That being said, it is probably one of the more difficult styles to apply because of it's overall combat strategies
Depends on the lineage. Some of them actually don't have any martial content, so they import Judo and Sanda stuff and sell it as "Taiji". And people will buy into it, thinking: "Oh! It's all the same." A good thing for people to realize is to not confuse fame with skill - which is what most people do. I think people believe that there's some positive correlation between fame and skill, but I think that's wrong.
@@ShadowParalyzer I agree. Especially with confusing Skill with Fame
It is very refreshing to finally hear someone else say this!!!!…Great Job Brother!
Ramsey, thank you so much for this video. I have been practicing Chinese Kung fu since very young age (I used to base in Hong Kong and my grandfather was a fighter, who practiced mostly mantis style and taijiquan, similar to the master you mentioned in the video)
Since then I moved on to practice jiu-jitsu, Kali and a little bit of boxing. But deep down in my heart, Chinese Kung Fu had a special place. For quite a while I thought those are just for show and heartbroken on how people trashed it. However seeing this video, one day I will definitely go back to doing Chinese Kung Fu and make them "useful" as per say
I couldn’t agree more! I’m a Taekwondo 4th dan and instructor, but only started to understand some of the shapes in the forms and their grappling applications when I started learning BJJ. It shouldn’t even be too surprising, given that most of the WTF Taekwondo pioneers were also black belts kn Judo. Thank you for a wonderful explanation, Sir!
thank you Ramsey, I'm in the same situation as the asker. I have cerebral palsy, so I have no intention of been a fighter but I enjoy the mental activity of trying to figure out what the taichi forms mean. I've been trying to spar with taiji as grappling while also training other things because of your video about the master in the vinegar factory.
Great video, btw
This is so interesting to me, because I found your channel while researching for Tai Chi application.
I'll throw a huge text wall here, but it's ok if you don't find this interesting.
Now I'm not even a fighter and probably will never be, I'm an Aikido practitioner. But I've always been a thinker (I guess), I like to understand how things work and why they work.
I only have 10 years of practice and a couple years ago I graduated Shodan which, as you know, it means I know the (basic) form.
All this time I've only practiced Aikido for what it is, because I enjoy the logical thinking behind it and studying biomechanics, but since my graduation I've been getting tired of the same old practices. I noticed that even worse than putting aside pressure testing, most instructors are bound to the form. The practice is always about the movements included in the form with some variations and whatnot, but always the same form (and here I'm not criticizing my Sensei, which is quite good and I enjoy her teachings. She actually started in Kung Fu, although I don't know her style). Sometimes we even get to practice some variations that are hard to work even in a non pressure environment, mind you.
So I started to question it. What's the deal here? Why we do this? Why this way? Are the techniques flawed? Are the teachings flawed?
Then there was this day I was watching the Shang-Chi movie, where some peculiar martial arts movements were depicted and felt to me very reminiscent of the elder people's Tai Chi. And it got my attention not only due to the beautiful movements but also because I noticed a certain circular movement pattern and pushing of arms that would result in locks. I couldn't avoid to realize how similar that was from what I've been practicing all these years.
Now I knew what I had to do and how to find back my interest for the art. So I started looking for information about Tai Chi application.
Right at the beginning, I found this one channel of a guy who offers a lot of content related to Tai Chi and internal martial arts. There's a lot of "magician teachings" there, but there's this one video I found very interesting with Sifu Adam Hsu where he speaks about some practical use of Tai Chi and how, according to him, the true techniques are hidden in the form. The piece of information I found most interesting was that (from memory, so maybe not 100% accurate) "Chinese Kung FU is not about throwing fists, that's Kung Fu movie. Chinese Kung Fu don't let go of the arms, it's always keeping in contact". This made so much sense in my head.
Looking into this, found a few more videos of Dr. Yang from YMAA about the same subject, which not only served to demonstrate how the arms are always in contact with the opponent but, to my surprise, I knew many of his movements from my own practices. Then suddenly I knew where those odd variations I've practiced came from and also the correct way to apply them, the correct movement to study.
Moving on, I've been going deeper and deeper into Kung Fu, even if not a practitioner. I also consume lots of information regarding martial arts in general, from many content creators. Nowadays I'm studying Qin Na for the same reasons I initially looked into Tai Chi and my mind keep being blown away with all I've been learning. It's so great, such a good feeling.
My point with all this is just to contrast with what Ramsey said about reverse engineering. It seems to me more and more that it's crucial for any martial artist, of any style or practice, to always have critical thinking and never limit themselves to a style. Always go deeper, always look around, always learn more.
Anyway. I won't be sorry for my huge text wall because you teached not to be xD
I'm grateful for your teachings. I love how I always come to your channel for the martial arts content and always leave with far more than it.
Have a great day.
Thx for another taichi clip
So glad someone like you is out here educating people what Tai Chi is for real because it is so widely misunderstood. Thank you sir!
What a wonderful video. I feel like this is a big piece of the puzzle of reclaiming traditional martial arts for combat.
You know your stuff & you speak good knowledge
Being able to remember/recall is a double edged sword - remembering training and mis-comprehension many years prior allows current learning to make sense. Rhee Taekwondo is a variant of Taekwondo but the discussion of blocks are strikes and kata dissection gives new light on other styles and practices. Thank you for your dissemination on what a martial art is. Practicing fencing it introduced me to the art of swordplay - each weapon has a style because of its design - a foil is not an effective slashing weapon, a sabre however is - each weapon requires knowledge and practice to be effective. For 'us' to be effective we need knowledge and practice - in all manner of things.
The soft style moving meditation that is Tai Chi will add so much to any other sport you try. If nothing else it’s a nice way to warm up or cool down.
This was really interesting and informative, thanks. I don’t know where the person you were speaking with is located, but I think that William C.C. Chen’s taiji school in NY still puts the gloves on and spars, FWIW.
Yes indeed! His son Max Chen, students like BJJ master Josh Waitzkin, and competitor Jan Lucanus all come from the William C.C. Chen lineage.
Love your knowledge and perspective. Have you talked about systema before.?
I think you're onto something. You may be venturing into uncharted waters. You going to have to be the Pioneer on this one.
Good luck in Shanghai! I hear it's quite difficult there at the moment… All the best!
Yup, we all know and love this situation:
--> [ kids rushing into the house from school,
and screaming at the top of their little squeaky voices all together
as a prelude to total and unstoppable chaos for the next quarter of an hour ]
"Daddy, Daddy!! You got another 'F' from my homework at school !!"
(and Mommy joins in):
"Children, so you see what kind of man Mommy married" (and she sighs audibly)
And you were opening the fridge to get a beer, but you freeze half way whilst opening the fridge
because you realize ...[Hitchcock suspense high-pitched horror music]... THAT THERE IS NO BEER IN THE FRIDGE !!!
Wow, I have to admit I was a big sceptic...but this really opened my eyes...I will definitely add this to my training...thank you. (Also I subbed the moment you said "...wait, I think that might be cockroach...")
I think think u videos are great and offer so much 👍
Awesome video and analysis. I like the demos alongside the conversation. A lot of your arm drag techniques and transition actually look similar to high level various kung fu, wrestling, and Silat systems. I recognized some of your leg takedowns and arm takedowns both from wrestling and Silat. At a high level you can make anything work its just that MMA has found out how to make 'kung fu techniques' work in real life like adaptable trapping, counters, arm drills, takedowns, wrestling. Most people will get more out of training a practical system first that can do the techniques then learn a more traditional system secondary like you say. People with more sparring and varied martial arts experience can pick up techniques and make them work really quickly I have found.
Most of the Bodyguards and Escorts that served the Emperors Practiced Shuai Jiao, Bagua(Yin Fu), Xinyi and Tai Chi. It's great to see the research on the effectiveness of what's hidden in the form or failed to be properly taught.
Overall I liked this take and perspective on the issue. It was great training with you for a bit in summer of 2019 and always loved how level headed you were in training and instruction. One of the things I came to conclusion after doing Eagle Claw Kung fu, and Wu and Chen style Taijiquan for so long, is that almost all the techniques I learned that worked best from the forms were grappling and wrestling techniques. Many that people said were striking (as in kickboxing type striking) did not seem to make sense. Then I starting experimenting, what if they all are just wrestling/grappling and there is almost no striking. One that would mean that one main reason why most kung fu practitioners are failing is because they think what they are doing is a kick or punch when it is really grabs, locks, sweeps or throws. Also it would mean that kickboxing, strictly speaking was either not formally practiced as such and not in forms, or it was a separate skill practiced with drills that were not well handed down. But anyway, as I began to apply this to every movement in my Taijiquan, Eagle Claw forms and other kung fu forms acquired in our Eagle Claw lineage (Beng Bu from Mantis, long fist forms, Tantui ect) I began to notice that nearly all the techniques were wrestling and grappling or they were wrestling and grappling with some striking mixed in the movement. This was enlightening. Moreover having looked at Wandering Warriors video proposal: czcams.com/video/QRINkBdqWa0/video.html , I continued further and felt that perhaps this is one of the reasons for this disconnect in modern practitioners ability to apply techniques, because in part, they are doing the wrong techniques.
Hi, Ramsey.
You’ve talked quite a lot about traditional martial arts forms and you seem to have devoted a fair amount of time and energy to unpacking the ones you know and finding the meaning in their movements. With that in mind, do you view the practice of learning and/or making forms as a whole to be a worthwhile endeavour? To put it another way, would you personally consider teaching your students forms that you know from various sources or, alternatively, forms that you yourself designed and developed as part of their training? If so, how would you integrate this into their normal training schedule?
Thank you for your time.
I've supplemented my Karate with what I was told was Tai chi over 20 years, and it's helped me maintain flexibility as I've aged and taught me the value of doing movements so slowly that you are consciously aware of what each muscle is doing and how each part of the body is aligned. For fighting it teaches you to listen to what an opponent is doing, which helps with timing. But in terms of actually applying Tai chi techniques......in a real fist fight. Not a chance. It's great healthy exercise for older folks but otherwise it's not a system of fighting. So worthwhile, as long as you're honest about what it is and what it's not.
Guess what the Master you met was teaching was more authentic Tai Chi, that is useful, but it isn't distinct from grappling. Unless someone's training with that guy, I doubt it would be useful as anything but a supplemental training - and definitely not a replacement for actual grappling/striking.
Hey authentic Chen Style Taijiquan Coach here! Really great video, Taiji is really applicable as long as you actually practice live application. There are alot of loud fakes out there but there are hidden gems as well. You should look up famous Taiji masters. Like Yang Lu Chan was the creator of Yang Style Taiji. He learned Chen Style for 10 years + in Chen Village and travelled to Beijing and became known as Yang the Invincible. The guy who created Chen Style Taiji was a ming dynasty military officer, Chen Wang Ting
cool stuff
Love to connect with you about Taiji Quan. Agree with most of what you say but not all. And there are some good guys around not many.
Would love to see more of "what forms really mean".