Death Battle's "Marvel VS DC Problem"
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- čas přidán 23. 08. 2023
- This video was scripted and recorded prior to the announcement of Martian Manhunter VS Silver Surfer. FUN.
Death Battle has used over 70 collective Marvel and DC combatants across 45 odd episodes, roughly a quarter of the show. Is this a problem? Why are people complaining about the inundation of Marvel and DC, and why are people complaining about the people complaining?
I dunno, I just wanted to talk about it and why things are the way they are.
I mention him so here's Biff Weed: / biffweed
Support me on patreon if you want: / nemesisbloodryche
My guess is that it stems from them being rivals: one company makes a character, the other company makes a character to appeal to that character's audience, and so on back and forth.
No what? What are you even saying lol
You’ve got a point. They have so many rival characters that going for a Marvel vs DC matchup yields so many options.
@@michaelraymon111 he makes a fair point. with the amount of characters in DC and Marvel there are so many with similarities that its easy to take one character and find another from the other and make vs battle. not saying it isnt lazy. but its not SUPER lazy.
@@thesponge2026it’s not any lazier than marvel and DC doing it themselves
@@thesponge2026 No
my disinterest in Marvel vs DC death battles is similar to the problem I have being invested in anything that tests the characters from eithers power...too many cooks for too many decades, good writing, sloppy writing, good and bad editorial decisions, reboots, retcons, all mashed into one and never particularly clear what counts...for all its flaws at least the manga/anime characters that show up have some internal consistency through their relatively small creative teams
thank you managed to sum up my main problem with vs m v d. that want counts as canon now, does this character still have there particular weakness or are they still as strong etc.
Yeah! For example: some stories have Superman struggling to move a Planet while others have him take on Doctor Manhattan and Elder gods. It's the exact same reason why they don't have SCP on Death Battle.
@@something1600technically he’s never fought Doctor Manhattan unless we count the Batman who laughs across the multiverse or whatever his stupid final form was
@@something1600 Darkseid can go from literally breaking the multiverse to getting solo'd by Doomsday. Doctor Fate is another one with poor consistency, he's supposed to be one of the most powerful entities in DC yet he often dies in pretty stupid ways, he's also possessed Darkseid at one point...
A good writer knows how powerful they should be to tell a good story, which is why these matchups will never really work.
@@something1600This just says you haven't been keeping up with the characters. Those of us who do, have no such concern.
Besides, thst has no bearing on DB, as they have said they are going to use the best version of the character.
The transitions between the Marvel vs DC fights at the start was SO smooth. Major props on that.
And in my opinion, Marvel vs DC is not a problem to me so much. But I don’t blame people for being tired of it or not interested.
I dont mind them, but when they do super niche or super unpopular side characters I kinda tune out of it. Im a HUGE comic fan but even I have characters that I dont really care about as much. Theres a few battles that I am definitely on the edge of my seat or have stakes in, but others not so much. This also applies to anime characters I am not familiar with, but not every battle is going to have characters every single person knows I suppose.
I'm glad you brought up the needless abundance of multiversal+ matches we've had lately. Verses conversations at that level I find are so draining, just eventually boils down to whoever's understanding of higher existence is subjectively better than the other. If we need to accept DCvM matchups as easy money for DB, then I would prefer realistic levels of strength, characters from specific timelines rather than composites, and overshadowed characters in general.
Marvel and dc never had comp characters
@@spidey2837iron man vs lex luthor, joker vs sweet thoot, batman vs captain america and Goku vs Superman are just some examples of them doing thecomposite, but those were the "good old days",they don't do that anymore but they have done it
@@slimer44producciones3 superman vs goku?
Iron man vs lex luthor?
Batman vs captain america?
Joker vs sweet thot i guess joker had his arkham car
@@spidey2837
Goku vs Superman: They gave superman a feat from all star Superman which is not canon to Post-crisis superman (you know, the superman the used for that fight)
Iron Man vs Lex Luthor: they gave Tony J.A.R.V.I.S. from the MCU, who as popular as he may be is not part of the comics, in the comics Jarvis is a regular human butler (althoug this doesn't affect the result of the research they used his origin story from the movie where he was captured by terrorist in afganistan, in the comics he was captured by Chinese terrorist)
Batman vs Captain America: they give batman gear from the Arkham games that is not in the comics
Joker vs Sweet thoot: yes you are right, they used the Jokermovile from the arkham games (which even in that universe it is not real, it's a dream from batman) and they also use gatgets from the Tim Burton movie, Batman: the Dark knight, Batman the Dark knight returns, Injustice and Batman the brave and the bold which are all non canon media to the main DC universe joker
Also, I don't want to come of as if I hate death battle, acutally Iron man vs Lex Luthor and Joker vs Sweet thoot are amoung my favorite episodes but all I wanted so say is that the have in fact composed characters from marvel and DC
@@slimer44producciones3 thanks for the explanation mate
My issue isn't how many there are, it's that they need to be spaced out. Darkseid vs Thanos was immediately followed by Aquaman vs Namor. Phoenix vs Raven had one episode between it and Surfer vs Manhunter. Terry vs Miguel had one episode between it and Batman vs Black Panther. Thor vs Wonder Woman had one episode between it and Terry vs Miguel. The amount isn't my issue, it's that there are plenty of times where they aren't allowed to breathe before they go back to that well. The first two Marvel vs DC matchups had 20 episodes between them.
I don't think you can complain about Darkseid vs Thanos being immediately followed by Aquaman vs Namor, since Darkseid vs Thanos was a season finale, while Aquaman vs Namor was a season premiere, so there was months between.
@@2rrkd The episodes are still back to back.
I think that the problem with season 10 so far with marvel and dc, is spacing. It’s more than likely we’ll get a marvel vs dc in the second half, making 4 Marvel vs DC episodes, 3 of which are in the first half. What would be better would to have a Marvel vs DC in each quarter. This would allow a possible maximum 6 episodes between 2 Marvel vs DC, but a more plausible 2 or 3 between each.
I also wish they’d stop doing Marvel vs DC right off the back of a Marvel/ DC vs different series. Like, Harley vs Jinx then Zatanna vs SW, Batman vs Iron Man into Goku Black vs Reverse Flash, Miles vs Static into Canary vs Sindel, etc, etc
@@hax_m76 that’s another of the spacing issues. I think a good example for my spacing idea is Season 5. There are 4 Marvel vs DC in that season, but it doesn’t feel like it until you actually look at the season. Batman vs Black Panther - Dr Strange vs Dr fate is 5 episodes, Dr strange vs Dr Fate - Nightwing vs Daredevil is 4 episodes, and Nightwing vs Daredevil - Thanos vs Darkseid is 3 episodes. And in those in betweens, there is only 1 Marvel vs Non dc/non-marvel vs DC
If that happens then Season q0 should just become known as the "Marvel vs DC" season..... oh well at least we got Chosen Undead vs Last Dragonborn
My issue with all the DC vs Marvel matchups is that they can push out other characters and verses getting a chance to shine. Plus, there's the fact that it's very easy to overlook things when looking at their feats. For comic characters there are usually decades worth of feats and abilities to look over, further complicated by the fact there are numerous retcons, contradictory continuities, glossed over events, one-off powers, asspulls, or just super obscure stuff. All that gives so much to look over and if you miss something or have regard something a certain way, it completely changes the outcome of the fight.
Also, I've still never gotten to see Superman vs Thor, even after all these years. It's not about who wins for me (though I've who I'd bank on), I'd just want to see it.
If they gave wonder woman a win against Thor. I'm pretty sure they 'd give the win to Superman from scaling alone.
@@redshepherd32 Except Thor has gotten a lot more powerful since then.
@@TresBS1 Yeah, but so has Superman
@@WebbedManiac Really Superman has been nerfed so hard since post crisis. Even the World Forger punch isn't that big of deal compared to he has done before.
@@TresBS1 So has Wonder Woman.
Another aspect worth mentioning with Marvel and DC's power creep is that it really does get hard to find matchups outside of the other comic series that's actually fair. The phrase you often see is people not wanting characters they like against Marvel or DC because they don't want them to get "Fed" to them. It's rarely got that much active discussion, if the characters can be argued to hit that spicy cosmic infinity.
To be fair trying to find certain matchups for those power creeps is almost important considering there aren't many series that tend to go cosmic or to be exact series that aren't really popular enough to be on death battle radar
@@patrickadetola4153 there are a lot of cosmology that are on par and stronger than Marvel and DC that are pretty popular
Seriously smt only has one representative and they are from the fucking spinoff
@@hello_mr.yomi6627 And they are?
@@patrickadetola4153 persona
Mitsuru or however you spell her name
@@hello_mr.yomi6627 They put her at town level
I want to believe while Marvel vs DC fights are okay to happen its the fact it doesn't make way for new or other franchises getting into the show and lack of interest to those fights can make the people and/or fans feel uninterested.
7:51 Personally, it’s not even the length. It’s the fact that a new writer can come in and do whatever they want with the character’s story, and mess up the character.
You’ll have one story where Batman tells Wonder Woman that the reason he takes the Robins in is so they don’t end up like him, and in another you’ll have Batman getting into fights with Alfred because he thinks of them as child soldiers.
Death Battle needs to do more military battles. I still enjoy the Dr. Eggman Vs. Dr. Wily video because of all the moving variables. Something like the Galactic Empire Vs. The UNSC would be epic.
Agreed, my most wanted army fight is The Flood (Halo) vs The Necromorphs (Dead Space)
Holy shit the sequence at the beginning seamlessly transitioning through each matchup in order of their release was clean as fuck. Huge props for that edit
This mostly applies to Marvel vs DC herald fights. The street levelers fights are actually kind of interesting (well as long as their not Batman vs Spider-Man and even still) especially since they have quantifiable stats. Like I know some people rag on calcs but I kind of like them because they put extra emphasis on a character's feats or scaling rather than saying "Oh he can destroy a universe or fought a guy who could destroy a universe). Besides, I don't think we got a MvDC street leveler fight with modern research, calcs and all. Yeah there was Bucky vs Jason in Season 7 but the research for that one is kind of ass.
I remember being shook back in Beerus vs Galaxia where they used the destruction of the universe as a unit of meassurement. Now whenever they bring up universal or higher feats, I'm like "eh...".
To be honest, the reason im not a fan of Marvel vs DC MUs anymore is because they take the spotlight and space away from more interesting MUs. Usually, Marvel vs DC MU characters have the same, or similar powers, and the only thing different is design or backstory.....or both
As an example, Reimu vs Sailor Mars. Both have flashy, unique attacks that can counter each other in some way, and they still have enough connections to make it work.
I guess the point im making is
Marvel vs DC is just samey as hell, and also takes spotlight from more interesting MUs
My main problem with Marvel vs DC, especially in Season 10 is just the frequency of it. I have no issue with Marvel or DC, I like both and some of my favorite characters are from these two franchises. I also am interested in MM vs SS, I like both characters, I am interested in seeing what they could do. The issue is that this is the 3rd Marvel vs DC fight in such a short time, added to the fact that this season has also had 3 returners and it just feels like there isn't a lot of new we may get from this season. A bunch of Marvel and DC and a bunch of returners. Now the episodes aren't bad because of this, but part of my enjoyment of Death Battle is learning something new about a new franchise or something I didn't know about a franchise I do know. For Cole vs Alex as an example, I have played the INfamous games, so I am interested in seeing just how powerful Cole is and how he stacks up against his video game rival. But with Marvel and DC its typically the same things, they either get scaled to the city bomb Batman survived or they can just fold multiverses on a whim. I just want more variety is all. Marvel vs DC by itself is fine, just wish there was a little less frequency of it is all.
And the main thing is I more have an issue with Marvel VS Dc, not Marvel or DC being in DB specifically. Like, I'd be happy to see Spider-Man vs The Crawler or Reed Richards vs Rick Sanchez because its not that I hate Marvel and/or DC in matchups, I just like Marvel and DC fighting other people besides each other. Its cool to see how a comic character can stack up to an anime character, a cartoon character or a video game character. Basically, see how two characters from different mediums fair against one another basically. With Marvel vs DC, its just comic character vs comic character which is not as interesting. Another aspect I like about DB is the crossover aspect, seeing two characters who would normally never meet, interact and fight and banter and have their abilities, skills, weapons and personalities bounce off each other. With Marvel and DC though...we've seen that crossover too many times to count..hell, they are technically canon with each other in some ways as I think Marvel and DC exist in each other's multiverse so it doesn't feel as special as a crossover. Superman vs Goku sounds more interesting to me than Superman vs Thor because Superman and Thor have already met and very likely could meet again in the future while its unlikely Superman will ever officially meet Goku. I'd just like to see a bit more interesting crossover, not Marvel and DC who have crossed over so much that in one comic, the rulers of their universes are LITERALLY brothers.
Finally, the last thing with Marvel vs DC, though this can apply to Marvel and DC in general is that they almost always use the comic versions. Now, I like the comics and a part of me is sad that the comic side doesn't seem as loved as the movies or cartoons. That being said, I like seeing different versions of a character used as they typically will have a different story, personality, dynamic and power scaling than their comic counter part. I have seen a matchup for MCU Iron Man vs Homelander and MCU Iron Man is going to be a LOT different than Comic Iron Man. For me personally, I'd also love to see MCU Captain America vs Soldier Boy, where again, it'd be a different dynamic than Comic Cap vs Batman. Like, Japanese Spider-Man vs Adam West Batman is one of my most wanted even though its Marvel vs DC and Spider-Man vs Batman because its different takes on the characters, they will have a different dynamic than their comic counter parts. Like, for all the Batman fights we got, if it was lets say...Comic Batman first, then Adam West Batman, then Arkham Batman, then Brave and the Bold Batman, I wouldn't mind that too much because its different iterations. Its simply because all four Batman fights were comic Batman with a bit more new shit and feats. If the Marvel vs DC or Marvel/DC vs Something else fights used a different version than the comics, that wouldn't be nearly as bad because it'd be something different which offers a new dynamic and scaling but for the most part its just the comics. Its sad when so far the only alternate version for a Marvel or DC character we have gotten is SF Aquaman and that was for a fight specifically to shit on him...
Long story short, if they'd space them out, pit them against each other less and use different variations of the characters, I'd be fine. I just don't want to see Comic Marvel vs Comic DC every other episode. I am exagerating with that, but as I said, MM vs SS is the 3rd Marvel vs DC within the 8 episodes we have gotten, that's only 5 non Marvel vs DC and if you include the inclusion of Marvel or DC in general then thus far Marvel and DC have taken up half the season. Just want some variety, that's it.
I love that your so open to talking about death battle after the video talking about how you take so much punishment for it. We all support you!
Holy stromboli I got namedropped
I generally agree with your perspective on this issue and its multitude of factors. Speaking for myself, I tend to be more okay with Marvel and DC street-tier characters getting on than herald or skyfather tiers, since it’s easier to grasp their feats and abilities in comparison to just another universe or omniverse buster. Much like Biff, I start to lose interest when the power levels get to such an incomprehensible degree, especially when the analyses laying out all those feats feature the same names we’ve heard countless times before (Thor, Thanos, Superman, etc). It’s very similar to how I feel about high tier Dragon Ball characters, like how you noted in the video. This was a very fun watch; good work!
Fantastic nuanced take, as per usual.
Even if Manhunter vs Silver Surfer as a matchup puts me to sleep faster than a metric ton of Xanax, I'm still excited to learn about J'onn's comics counterpart since I'm currently watching the DCAU with my dad. And who knows, maybe Silver Surfer will be more interesting than I'm giving him credit for? I never really skip DB episodes anyways since there's usually at least *something* worth seeing in them, but I am afraid Season 10 will be more oversaturated with Marvel vs DC than Season 7.
-Also, thank you for making a Godspeed alt popular so Garou isn't just fed to him-
Opinion on Garou vs Cell?
@@hadouradiance3566 Better than Garou vs Godspeed
Marvel vs DC is THE vs matchup. From the beginning of saying "who would win?" They've been constantly talked about. It kinda hard to separate the 2 from the vs community as a whole.
Just gotta comment, the editing in this video was crazy.
Honestly I feel like the sheer abundance of episodes featuring a Marvel character and/or a DC character feel like the show has been influenced by the resurgence super hero media had in the late 2000s and early 2010s. It is natural for them to capitalize on trends even if it’s often a marketing tactic (ex Black Panther vs Batman to promote the Black Panther movie, Captain Marvel vs Shazam in the year both got movies), but the pacing in which it’s been distributed holds back the creativity a lot, not helped by them using Deadpool as a recurring character for jokes a lot even if he’s not one of the combatants:
16:09 I don't know why, but the quote "Bill Cypher, Discord, and The Last Dragonborn" out of context makes me chuckle a little bit.
1 character is very different from the others.
before watching the video, I don't mind how often these two franchises show up, I mind how almost all of their episodes boil down to raw numbers in lieu of any interesting debate. this isn't a problem exclusive to Marvel or DC, but it seems to happen a lot more for those matchups.
some of my favorite episodes of the show are episodes that are at least presented as being close stat wise. a good example of that is Trunks vs Silver where they focus mainly on the unique abilities Silver has that would help him win, and not the theoretical infinite stat gap between the two. but most Marvel or DC episodes come down to "this guy who can shoot lasers has a laser 18,346.9 times betterer than this guy who can shoot lasers and is 230,682,000 times faster so he can just overpower them"
edit: good video. covered alot of points I didn't consider. and I think the point about both sides should not be dicks to eachother is important. very easy to get that tunnel vision of "how dare this person have a different opinion from me"
Most Marvel vs DC episode involving heralds are less about numbers and more about haxes
Just wanna say; your transitions from battle to battle in the opening are so damn good.
Honestly, I didn't even notice the sheer amount of dc vs. Marvel we've had, with 3 this season, including the upcoming matchup. I honestly don't mind it because those fights have some bangers and I've always been interested in match ups I've never thought of
Yeah I agree. It has actually been good ones and they have been mostly spaced out a little
Cannot stress enough how much I appreciate these fire transitions.
Zatanna being the stand in for Apoc's kaiju form cracked me up.
And the string of Booster Gold into Lex into The Hammer and the fist bump clash were favs.
As someone who used to groan at Marvel vs DC stuff I slowly grew to just shrug it off and let it happen nowadays without complaint.
To me in the last few years DB themselves has tried to hold back on the use of both comic series to a degree in the place of newer or less discussed on the show franchises.
Heck Season 10 has 5 new franchises in the first half of its season. Thats crazy for modern db and I couldn't be happier. (6 if you count stitch as not just a Disney character)
To me Marvel vs DC or the framchises as a whole has its place in death battle and I'm willing to just don't mind it as long as it doesn't try to highly over shadow the chanced of new ones or old ones having a second or 3rd chance to shine for 2 weeks
I wouldn't mind the abundance of Comics match ups if there were more street-tier fights.
Really great video that makes some excellent points! My biggest problem with Death Battle is that they tend to stick to many of the same series. It’s something that they’ve definitely gotten better at recently, but there are so many slightly fringe series, especially anime/manga, that they just haven’t used (yet).
I really wanna state my thoughts on this, as it's an issue I've felt reaching its peak with our latest announcement.
But you said everything I wanted to say. Props to you.
Even if you like Marvel vs DC I can’t imagine you’d want to always have cosmic battles. Some variety would probably be welcome to everyone honestly.
My biggest problem is that the way they composite the decades of character stories, feats and retcons almost always leads to a single outcome: The character has no weaknesses. For instance, Green Lantern. He's weak to the color yellow, has to recharge often, can lose his ring and is vulnerable to losing hope. All of these points were either removed as weaknesses or complete non-factors in some continuity or another. They even gave him assumed feats because one person in one comic suggested that *maybe* he could do something.
It's like that for nearly all of the Marvel and DC battles.
In my opinion, the worst case is when they take Zatanna bragging as proven fact without providing evidence. 'I can cast magic without speaking', she says, without proving it.
I agreee with most of your post. But I got to say the Zatana but at the end is where you lost me. She CAN do magic without speaking. She can do her spells by using her own blood to write out the words.
@@TheStormbringer8751 Which she doesn't do in the battle. She just wills a spell wordlessly. As best as I can find, she has access to smaller spells while wordless, but no more.
Green lantern isn’t weak to yellow anymore
@@BlowingBeauty "For instance, Green Lantern. He's weak to the color yellow, has to recharge often, can lose his ring and is vulnerable to losing hope. All of these points were either removed as weaknesses or complete non-factors in some continuity or another."
I personally don't mind Marvel vs. DC matchups, with the only major issue being repeat characters. I don't know why Thor, Ironman, or some Batman/Spider-Man variant need like 15 episodes.
I have very much enjoyed the one-off episodes like the tiny dudes, magical bitches, and apocalypse v Adam. And I'm excited for Martian v Surfer, a weird matchup that I like the more I learn of.
Let me say I don’t think that it’s as bad as some people say but I will admit that we should lay it off tbh
I can definitely say that I agree with the whole “being unimpressed with big numbers for feats” thing. Back in Season 5, Doctor Strange and Doctor Fate having those huge travel speeds and supernova statements seemed so impressive. But over time, those numbers feel less like feats of strength and speed, and more like a dick measuring contest, to put it frankly. If we were to get one more Marvel VS DC episode this season, I hope it’d be something where their power levels don’t make it a crazy close street-tier dual, but more… I don’t know… planet level, max? It’d be a nice change of pace to see an episode where both sides can be debated, without it seeming stupidly close.
jesus the clips in the beginning are edited to lead into eachother perfectly, good job nem, that was cool with the little jump cuts.
The fact they haven’t bothered to use sedusa is beyond me
Who?
@@alexpineda5960 a villian from the powerpuff girls
@@George_Fl0yd oh, cool.
The transition from Hulk vs Doomsday to Thor Vs WW was so clean I had to rewind a bit
Personally I think the main problem with marvel vs dc is the pacing looking back at seasons 4-7 a comic book character was in a episode the most with little to no breaks in between it only got around to change in season 8-10 where yes we do get marvel and dc in those seasons but we only had two episodes where they fought each other the other episodes involving them had them fighting other series like dragon ball, avatar, Akira, league of legends and kung fu panda which I think works a lot better than just a comic book character in almost every episode with occasional breaks
I like to think of Marvel and DC's representation in Death Battle similarly to Fire Emblem's representation in Smash. There's a surprising number of them in there, and people have VERY vocal opinions on what they think about it/what they think others think about it
i have to say
that opening at the beginning of the video was solid, the transitions were super clean
"As long as whichever side you're on, you're not obnoxious about it" it really do be as simple as that.
I consider myself a fan of the superhero genre, and my problem with the Marvel vs DC fights is definitely the burnout of how much that happens. While I like Martian Manhunter even though I barely know him (his story sounds really interesting and tragic), the third MvDC of the season and the second one in the span of three episodes is a lot. Granted, there have been plenty of MvDC episodes in the past that I've ended up liking regardless of my connections to the characters, such as Ghost Rider vs Lobo, and plenty of new or returning characters I would be excited to see such as Daredevil and Captain America. I think part of my problem with it might also just be the fatigue from superhero film discourse carrying over.
But by all means, I hope that Marvel and DC characters get fights with different combatants. Rocket vs Stitch was a fun surprise, and regardless of how poorly the arguments might have aged, Goku vs Superman is still iconic. One thing I like about the composers for Death Battle episodes (besides their talent) is that they make tracks based off of fan commissions, and that's where I hear about a lot of cool DB matchup ideas. If Batman ever comes back to DB, I hope he fights Solid Snake based off of one Brandon Yates track that I forget the name of. Of course, there will be a new track for the actual episode like with Guts vs Dimitri, but it's still a really cool matchup idea
This video was pretty cool, it made me think about things on the subject that I hadn't thought of before.
2:15 This was really cool.
Thank you for making this video, and for sharing your feelings.
I haven't seen anyone dissect the Marvel VS DC match up "issue" like this. Excellent points all around and now I have something to quote if ever I discuss it.
I think the contributing problem is the imblance between Marvel losses to non DC and DC victories to non Marvel. Raiden, Android 18, The Shredder, Lucy, The Mask, Crona, Broly, Po, and Stitch have defeated Marvel characters while only Jinx and Spongebob have mangaed to defeat DC characters.
One problem I have with Death Battle in general when episodes of past franchises happen (especially Marvel, DC and Dragon Ball) is having to mention for the umpteenth time the feat to which the entire main cast scales.
I think the team could fix that by only focusing on the characters' own feats in the episode and only mentioning scaling when it's important enough to the final outcome of the fight.
Imagine if they used other franchises as much as Marverl/DC. Could use most popular characters for any given series.
I think you shouldn't care what a death battle is, if you don't care about a matchup, just don't hate on the people who are exited, just sit back and enjoy the fight, if I were to pick marvel Vs DC, deadshot Vs target could be a cool sniper fight I'd argue we have never really got, joker Vs green goblin could be a fun show of insane characters duking it out, plastic man Vs Mr fantastic have really unique power sets, and war machine Vs cyborg could use a near infinite ammount of fight potential
I don't mind the marvel vs dc stuff personally. Some of them are my favorite fights they've made. Though I can get why some are annoyed by the amount of them. I'm mostly a casual fan of marvel and dc, but I have favorites from different media that I like learning the true story of. I'm excited that my favorite character from the DCAU, Martian Man, is finally getting an episode. I'll never get into the mainline comics cause idk WHERE to even begin, but it's still fun to learn about characters or franchises idk much about.
I'm okay with these battle because I love Marvel and DC so much. I'm really looking forward to Martian Manhunter vs Silver Surfer. While the companies get talked about a lot in general, I haven't seen many people talking about these two specifically, especially Surfer
For me, what interests me the most in Death Battle is discovering new characters and series, explained by a unique and fun narration. This includes the Marvel and DC comics which I didn't have much knowledge on. However, having so many of the same things being used over and over causes me to lose interest, not just "Marvel vs DC". The best (or worst, depending on how you look at it) examples to this are the shockwaves in Dragon Ball and Base-form Naruto's Chakra.
My only criticism with Marvel vs DC on DB is that they should space them out a little more, and maybe focus more on direct feats instead of herald scaling everything. Maybe that second isn’t possible, idk I’m not a big numbers guy. Also a good lesson is Just don’t be an asshole to people, online or not.
I got really excited when I saw Martian Manhunter for the next time on death battle because I know the most popular match up for him is Piccolo and I love seeing Dragon ball characters come onto death battle even if they get stomped by their opponent. Then all my joy left my body in an instant when I saw Silver surfer. I would love to see some more season 1 death battle reps come back as well. Doomguy, Spawn, Master chief, and Samus are some characters who just got left behind in season one. Doomguy has a lot more to work with because of the 2016 and Eternal games coming out that I just want to see him come back. Kratos as well has changed so much that seeing him come back would be great.
@morphstarchangeling8024 I'd much rather Martian Manhunter die than Piccolo
I don't really think this is a big problem
Marvel Vs DC is a big part of vs battles of Course there's going to be Ton of them
Who I want to see is very low states but fun, April’O Nell vs Louis Lane. Reporter vs Reporter, using mainly gadgets, there journalist equipment and some small training in self defence each character knows.
I love Marvel and DC. I watch the cartoons the movies and sometimes read the comics. I play mostly the marvel side of games and even then I'm still fatigued with how often they appear on death battle. Sure in stats the number is low, but its pushed harder in the algorithm more than other episodes so i'll see them in my feed for weeks even if I dont even wattch them. I on the other hand do want to see new franchises that I'm not familiar with in Death Battle. I wanna see niche characters get love.
I understand the absolute exhaustion between Marvel vs. DC but before Anime was Mainstream me and my friends after school would always debate on who was the most powerful character and of course our options were Marvel or DC their were other characters that aren't associated with DC or Marvel I'm just happy these debates are being settled in Death Battle but unfortunately it's at the cost of other potential and new characters
Honestly, there’s two reasons. Super hard to grasp or generic for more than a few.
The other is abundance. I think they’re cool, but yeah, burn out.
Sometimes they write well like Magneto, Spongebob, etc which helps.
Also, if they’re similar like you said. Constantly bringing up Naruto moon slice or Goku’s Beerus punch gets grinding. They even acknowledge it with “We can’t get away from Naruto”
That is a issue. I want more down to earth like Hank Hill vs The Neighbor or Andrew Ryan vs Mr. House. If everyone is all powerful, it kinda all blends together. If the feats and characters are super fun and absurd like Spongebob it can work.
i almost actually thought biff had 69k subs. literlly stop watching him for 2 weeks and he blows up, imagine
As someone who is( or perhaps more appropriately was) into capeshit, I think the other issue is that a lot of the big rivalries people wanted to see out of marvel vs dc specifically have been covered. Probably only adds to the general burnout point, but regardless still adds to the whole taking a spot away from unique franchises when another mvdc fight happens or one of them goes against character from a different franchise instead of two other franchises going at it. Ntm that when it comes to capeshit they tend to mostly just do marvel and dc with few exceptions. Rather annoying as someone who's been rather done with both the past decade aside from rereading the classic stuff and the Immortal Hulk run. I'd like to see other heroes from other comic companies, potentially to see if any catch my interest. Or hell! Give us some pulp heroes or ones from French comics. I'd be curious to see Blueberry or the Shadow show up in an episode!
I think the pulp heroes would be fun but they don’t exactly have a lot of means to make an interesting fight.
I adore the shadow but I know at the end of the day he’s basically a dude with guns who also could probably stab you with his nose.
John carter and maybe Doc Savage are the only ones that could give modern characters a run for their money just because the spectacle back then was so much lower.
That said Dick Tracey Vs inspector gadget
Honestly the transition was amazing
Personally, i love to see Marvel and DC characters in Death Battles. However, my problem is specifically when it's a Marvel character VS a DC character. As more often than not, it's usually against the rival company's counterpart.
For that specific kind of matchup is always brought up so many times in VS debates in general, it gets kind of tiring to hear.
I love to see when a Marvel or DC character faces an opponent that doesn't come from their rival company. Example: Magneto vs Tetsuo is one of my favorite episodes of all time. And part of it is because of the matchup itself.
As for the upcoming fight of Martian Manhunter vs Silver Surfer, I'm less inclined to check it out because its "Marvel VS DC." Despite the fact that Manhunter is one of my favorite DC Superheroes.
I do think that both characters deserve different opponents outside of their respective bubbles. Even if it wouldnt be a fairer matchup, itd be a more interesting one.
You cant really put them against Anime characters cause a good massive chunk of them are so stupidly broken it's not funny
Nah, it’s no problem because we always wanted to see our favorite comic book characters beat each other up.
The main reason some people would complain about Marvel VS DC is that the episodes aren't spread across well
Season 10 is the biggest example since it's recent, there have been 4 Marvel characters, THREE of them are Marvel VS DC. There's also the MU's themselves. Antom wasn't actually that bad of an MU and was one I remember people hearing liking, another one being Mysterio VS Scarecrow (Also possible hot take; I wouldn't complain if Arkham Batman VS Insomniac Spiderman was a DB, that sounds fun)
When an episode uses too much of a certain something the audience expects, it can get pretty stale pretty quick. I have a... 'friend' who thinks a similar thing, just it's for anime rather than Marvel DC because he's interested in comics. But there is a difference between Anime and Marvel DC; They're spread out a LOT more. If you exclude S7 but like, most of us do that.
And the extremists who say "MARVEL VS DC SHOULD NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN!" are stupid, we don't talk about them.
I have no issue with Marvel VS DC matchups, not to mention and like with most franchises, there are characters that people do want to see from both franchises. Plus, most of the episodes do end up being one of the bests like Batman VS Spider-Man for Season 1 and Deadpool VS Deathstroke and Iron Man VS Lex Luthor for Season 2.
I am that weird person who would be hyped if Death Battle did ONLY DC and Marvel matches.
I'd prefer a mix of franchises, but it’s just my opinion.
My favorite Death Battle is Balrog Vs. TJ Combo. These are two characters I still don't give a shit about. Good fights can come from series I'm not interested in.
Alot of the current backlash is probably related to the superhero fatigue alot of people with the current MCU. I do wish Death battle could diversify their episode picks a bit more but I imagine their channel would be hemoraging money if they were to focused on niche franchises
Alright but the editing in this video is actually crazy satisfying to look at. Anyways, I like Marvel and DC I just think they're used too much and would prefer more variety so I will roll my eyes when I see another Marvel VS DC matchup if it feels like they've done a lot already during the season or something. Like, say, if they've done 2-3 and they announce another one for the 5th matchup.
My issue is that even though Marvel vs DC matchups are definitely interesting to watch the problem is that they feel too safe. Rooster Teeth seems to fall back on Marvel and DC when it seems like there's not any other interesting matchups that in their eyes are worthy of an episode. I've had plenty of suggestions that I've sent to them in the past Wario vs King Dedede (which that got made into an episode), Sly Cooper vs Nathan Drake, Zero (Borderlands) vs Genji (Overwatch), Jimmy Neutron vs Dexter, and my most recent suggestion being Azula vs Edelgard. But i guess that these matchups are not worthy enough.
Never get tired of marvel vs dc match ups, there tons of rivalries left i want to see them fight!
// TW // MUCHO TEXTO
To say you hit the nail on the head is a nasty understatement. Touched up on just about all the right bases, and pretty much summed up most of my gripes with this issue.
Another grievance I have with it is that where I once might've vibed with a Marvel vs non -DC or visa versa match-up and agreed that it's "best for both" or what have yet, I now feel nothing for when they're announced. Thawne vs Goku Black, Thor vs Vegeta, Harley vs Jinx, Rocket vs Stitch; all great match-ups, all just inherently boring to me now, and it's fucking depressing (granted I do love all four of those episodes). And MvDC's back-and-forth contest of "who can out-God the other" hasn't, doesn't, and won't help. A good portion of VS has seemingly become less enjoyable for me now, and it all could've been avoided had they slowed down with Marvel and DC, and spaced it out more.
It's why Korra vs Storm is my all-time least favorite episode; them feeding off Korra like that, to me at least, was a sign that they just don't give a shit about any of it, and will take any twist and turn they can to keep talking about Marvel/DC (I know it's realistically probably not the case, but it certainly felt like it). It made me feel insulted as a DB viewer, and has ever since. Before Storra, Marvel/DC were simply getting boring, if not annoying; now they're flat-out pretentious and proud of that shit.
I'm not just tired of Marvel and DC because of over-saturation; I'm tired of them because it was all so easily avoidable and manageable. But hey, more power to those who don't share such problems I suppose.
my issue with it is that i'd like to see marvel and dc go against different franchises more often. too rarely does that happen
I don't mind seeing Marvel or DC characters, but I am getting tired of seeing them fight each other. For example: I'm glad they did Ultron Vs. Sigma over Ultron Vs. Brainiac. I'm not close minded about these match-ups, but I hope they slow them down or spread out their releases.
I have kind of a mixed relationship with Marvel vs DC matchups. I'm not super deep into Comics but I do enjoy some of them, admittedly to very surface level degrees. And I do enjoy learning more about certain characters
I understand why Death Battle does these matchups and especially in the amounts that they have, there's a lot of matches to get through for them and they (to my knowledge) do very well for the numbers because of how mainstream Comics have become thanks to the movies and shows. That said I've definitely been fatigued with them for the most part.
That said I think that lately starting even back in Season 8 they've been finally picking more interesting matchups from the lineup, at least they're more interesting to me. Zatanna vs Scarlet Witch was on the list of Comic Matches that'd actually get me really excited for the longest time, and in this Season alone we've yet to have a Comic matchup that I disliked the concept of. Ant-Man vs Atom was also on that list as well, and Martian Manhunter vs Silver Surfer is a matchup I genuinely never thought they'd do, I honestly never thought they'd do anything with either character. Admittedly Raven vs Phoenix took basically like, 80% of the 2 week wait time for me to have it grow on me.
They've gone through a lot of the mainstream Marvel vs DC matchups by this point, and if they didn't use them against one another than those mainstream characters were used against a non-marvel/dc character so they're off the table for like, at least 2 or 3 years i think (if they even have another match they'd wanna do). So they have to grab the slightly weirder choices, like MM and Surfer. It's the lesser known characters I'm actually interested in seeing talked about, or at least, if not lesser known than ones that i haven't seen talked to death about.
Kyle vs Simon is super popular but I genuinely can't think of an instance where I saw Kyle Rayner talked about outside of "Fridge" and that matchup.
I have heard about Batman for basically my entire life and the only way I'll accept him on another Death Battle is if he fights Deadpool for the funny. There's still plenty of popular matches they can do for Marvel vs DC but they can't let them dry out too quickly, so they need to fill in with something more unique. Which makes me interested because even if I've heard plenty of Marvel and DC Stuff, I at least haven't gone the past several years hearing about THIS specific thing from the comics (i literally only know mm from the one christmas episode of justice league and 99% of my silver surfer memories are from super hero squad).
So if they keep doing matches like this I'll be fine. I still wish they did less of them, but at least they're keeping it unique (for me at least)
Personally I take more issue with DC and Marvel going against characters from non-comics, it's not like, a blight on Death Battle or VS as a whole, and there are plenty of really fun examples of it. But I feel like in lesser cases it can kinda just feel like feeding the non-comic character into a woodchipper, and I feel in most cases (even the ones that turn out well like Magneto vs Tetsuo) the non-comic character had better matchups. But that's probably just me being petty at this point lol.
Also since you mentioned it I am definitely feeling the Dragon Ball Fatigue, but like, specifically because for like, I think all but 4 episodes right now they've only used Sayains, the characters are cool but there's not a lot of Variation between what they do ability wise. Cool forms (usually one unique form for each character), and a variety of lasers, at least Trunks got all the weird Xeno stuff and a sword though. I'd love to see Cell, Hit, Krillin, hell even a Buu Runback; I think at this point the only Sayain I'd be hype for is Kefla.
Anyway really good video, it was a lot of interesting to think about. I'm at a point where i've just accepted that Marvel vs DC is gonna be here to stay, maybe they could lessen up but unless it's just abysmal idea i don't have the energy to complain really. and I know there are plenty of people who either feel the same way or are just genuinely excited, and good for them. Sorry for rambling and also sorry for my horrible grammar. Artist first, typist like 3rd or 4th lol
Have a nice day and stay hydrated
Tbh as a DB fan I agree. I'll only get interested for Cell, Heroes/Xeno characters, and the majins at this point. The only Saiyan exceptions are Gohan if they put him up against Ultraman Zero anf Goku if they put him up against Jin Mori. Honestly if they do do the monkey King fight I want it to be Dragon Ball's last hurrah on DeathBattle period.
13:56 "That's a Welsh Crab"
Had me on the floor 😂
I want to see Percy Jackson Vs Harry Potter but I can't because Death Battle is making another Batman battle!
Think of it this way, if you want to make a long running channel about Vs. battles, the best way to do that is to involve the 2 franchises with the most characters because they bring the most potential fights
'People aren't interested in what they aren't interested in' is 100% a tautology, yet in the context of this discussion, it's definitely a necessary one. Since interest is a major part of the cause.
Even as someone whose current favorite episodes (Goku Black vs Thawne and Trunks vs Silver) aren't from franchises I'm not overly invested in, I 100% admit that if DB did an actually-good FE episode or a well done Fate episode, it would almost certainly take the top spot. Hell, even if it was a CONCEPT I liked such as wind powers or shadow powers, that'd be enough. So yeah, interest is definitely a big factor.
Meanwhile, I also agree with Nem's other points, especially the power creep one. Often times, these insane levels of power feel like they take away interest since it's rather repetitive at this point, and for the fights that overcome it, it often feels like it's because they have something else to offer like Zatanna and Scarlet Witch having all sorts of spells they could use. (Also, in the interest of fairness, I think part of the problem is the perpetual raising of stakes within comics as well. If the comics didn't make these characters universal, DB couldn't put them at that level)
I love MUs with DC and/or Marvel characters, but I personally think that it would be cool to have more alternate versions of the Marvel or DC characters like what we had with Super Friends Aquaman
Yeah, one reason for the plethora of Marvel vs DC is that there are a lot of characters from each side to choose from, and a lot of them have similar abilities and powers, making them obvious rivals. So it's an easy choice, compared to, say, various anime/game characters whose powers can be so different in scope, magnitude, and concept that comparisons are hard to make. Now, DB re-using the same DC/Marvel characters for different battles is another matter.
On the other hand, one major issue with using Marvel and DC characters are that different writers have used them differently over time, so there can be very little consistency in power level. A character can win based on one take on the character done in a single graphic novel by a writer who never wrote for the character before. While a manga is done by the same writer and so there is a lot more consistency to them.
I honestly agree with the 3 points of the video. Although amusingly I want to denote that I have a method to comfortably read about the characters to avoid the discomfort that you speak of in the second point.
Basically I just speedread all the stories, even if I may not understand the context of the story with dialogue, I can understand what the character is going through with the drawings and visual language. I did that method with Ant-Man VS Atom and the truth made me become a fan of both characters (especially Atom). And I was able to understand all the jokes and winks they made in their analysis and I was able to better understand the fact that the intellectual side of Ray Palmer has been wasted in animation.
It is not a method that I would recommend and I am sure that it will not work for most of people. But it worked for me personally
i saw starfox on that list of sales, i love the series but im curious, are u referring to the manga farewell beloved falco or one of the others made? just curious for research purposes.
This video was pretty insightful
For me at least, the issue I have with Marvel Vs DC fights is that they just feel like "filler episode for the money" just because the general public knows them from the movies
I feel they could've went more into the Lesser Known but still fairly popular Marvel or DC characters to spice it up.
For example Hulk statistics frequently compare him to Sentry, an obscure yet famous Marvel hero for his role in World War Hulk. Although Death Battle has quoted Sentry as "Marvel's Version of Superman." It's not at that absurd Superman level that would feel stale. It's a character with not as massive of a comics list, isn't featured in any MCU and featured scarcely in various Marvel video games, isn't cosmically overpowered and could probably be listed against a number of different opponents for an interesting fight.
The transition between Tony and Lexs punch to Hulk and Doomsdays punch is bussin
Talking about the power creep point, which is something i do care about a lot, the last Marvel vs DC fight that was specifically to street tiers against each other was i think Red Hood vs Winter Soldier which was back in Season 7 LMAO.
I have to generally agree with what was said, but I'd add these 2 points:
1) from a business standpoint, the Marvel VS DC episodes are good. They are sure to get a lot of views. They're the episodes you use to surround the more risky episodes that you don't know will do well
2) you can tell from stuff like DBCast that comics just so happen to be a "language" the entire team of DB understands. Just look at the Itadori VS Denji cast, compare it to a Marvel VS DC cast, you'll notice a clear difference
But at the end of the day, it's basically like you said, it really depends on personal investment. Though I still think DB should do a season without Marvel VS DC (still have the characters, just not against each other)
Oh and before I forget, another reason why I think a lot of people don't often invest in a Marvel VS DC episode is because they're very "punctual" (as in they're only really valid now)
Like, if Obito showed up again in another DB, it would basically be the same (maybe they'd focus on some other part of his story to draw a paralel with whoeve the oponent is), but if Broly VS Hulk happened today it would not be the same
Love that you included an Iron Man Armored Adventures character.
Are we not gonna talk about the transitions in the intro
You just gave me a great idea for Death Battle
Accelerator from index and villain from my hero movie 3 both of them have the exact same powers and reflecting anything that comes after
@Nemesis Bloodryche would you be upset if I add these to my list of DB that I want to suggest??because I have a list already and some of them are not MvDC who knows maybe there are enough interested that these could get on there???
There was a certain episode announced where one character was a Marvel herald and the other character was neither Marvel nor DC. That was the first time I thought, "I don't have to watch *every* Death Battle episode," because I knew they weren't going to give the other character the respect they deserve
I hate when they put up characters who have nothing in common other than 1 trait or title, so from the get go you already know it's gonna be a very one sided fight.
Thanks for pointing out why people are tired of seeing DC and Marvel on Death Battle. I like it when we get matchups involving either series because I'm familiar with both series. Not every episode involving DC and/or Marvel hits with me but I love the ones that do. These are the DC and Marvel fights I want Death Battle to do:
DC vs Marvel
Ares vs Hela
Azrael vs Moon Knight
Captain Cold vs Shocker
Catwoman vs Black Cat
Clayface vs Sandman
Deadshot vs Bullseye
Man-Bat vs Lizard
Scarecrow vs Mysterio
Swamp Thing vs Man-Thing
Trigon vs Dormammu
Marvel vs Non-DC
Black Bolt vs Zebra (Toriko)
Blade vs Buffy (Buffy the Vampire Slayer)
Doctor Doom (Marvel Superhero Squad) vs Kaos (Skylanders)
Galactus vs Unicron (Transformers)
Ghost Rider vs Spawn (Image Comics)
Green Goblin vs David Xanatos (Gargoyles)
Jubilee vs Dynamight (MHA)
Juggernaut vs Knuckles (Archie Comics Sonic)
Loki vs Kefka Palazzo (Final Fantasy)
M.O.D.O.K. vs Krang (TMNT)
Nova vs Invincible
Punisher vs Judge Dredd
Red Skull vs Cobra Commander (G. I. Joe)
SP//dr vs D.Va (Overwatch)
Spider-Man (Toei) vs Asuka (Neon Genesis Evangelion)
Star-Lord vs Gene Starwind (Outlaw Star)
DC vs Non-Marvel
Anti-Monitor vs Anti-Spiral (Gurren Lagann)
Atrocitus vs Jiren (Dragon Ball)
Batman (1966) vs Green Hornet
Black Manta vs Hydroid (Warframe)
Blue Beetle vs Mega Man (Mega Man Star Force)
Brainiac vs Shockwave (Transformers)
Green Lantern (Kyle Rayner) vs Simon the Digger (Gurren Lagann)
John Constantine vs Raidou Kuzunoha XIV (Megami Tensei)
Killer Croc vs Leatherhead (TMNT)
King Shark vs Terrafin (Skylanders)
Sinestro vs Fused Zamasu (Dragon Ball)
Peacemaker vs Soldier Boy (The Boys)
Wait Could I get the Enkidu vs Beta ray bill connections?
YES YOU KEEP REVIEWING THANKS!!!