I also don't like it when people impose their interpretations of the cards or methods of readings on others: "You HAVE TO learn Tarot through THIS deck/book and ONLY use THIS PARTICULAR SPREAD!" ... Tarot is a language where each reader has his own vocabulary and grammar. The *freedom* to build your own interpretations of the individual cards and methods of reading is vital! And I agree Tarot de Marseille is a good system that allows a great deal of this freedom 😃 (I also love the Visconti deck - they don't even write the names of the cards on the majors/trumps, and allow us a richer variety of characters through the extra court cards💕)
@UCRV-37LgAX5rYbyC4NeJVWg It's nice that you weren't forced a method! I have heard from another person (an author of a deck) that she was, though. So we can't say that "no one is forcing you" as a universal truth.
Tarot de Marseille often acts like an inquisitor, it scrutinizes the depths of being with disconcerting acuity and precision. Nothing can escape the TdM. TdM is able to expose broad daylight the moods, the aspirations, the desires or the best buried secrets. The more sensitive the problem is for the person, the more TdM will insist on it. TdM feels no shame, it reveals all the torments of the unconscious, all the blockages interiors, all the most hidden dreams and the most intimate desires. Tarot de Marseille reveals what you MUST know, while RWS tells you what you WANT to know.
It's good to find tarot readers who are truly dedicated to «Tradition», and who are "free" from the toxic globalist New Age. Excellent videos, and a very interesting and challenging point of view. Best wishes for the continuation of this excellent work.
When I was first exposed to Tarot in the 1970s it was via the Marseilles and Piedmontese cards. However the 'system' of Tarot de Marseilles only really goes back to Joseph Maxwell and Paul Marteau in the 1930s-1940s and the deck, originating in 15th century Milanese Tarocchi, was itself really a recreation by Grimaud. Tarot de Marseilles was engraved on my childhood imagination...wonderful, timeless emblems, like brightly coloured folk-art.
This is a great, and very important video. Specially today. I have been using the Waite/Smith deck for decades, but just recently I got the call to go back to the Marseilles deck which I never understood as a young person in the 70s. Your statements and observations are so welcome, and will help me on. my journey to reading with Marseilles deck. So much appreciate your perspective; feels absolutely right on. Blessings to you.
I picked up a Tarot de Marseille deck in Paris few years back, and just now the Rider Waite deck. Will be fun to work with both. Have several others too. But I love the Marseille deck, yes!
I've been watching this 5 times now and this single video have changed the way I see cards forever! Thank you so much! I'll never forget what is said here! 💛
I'm just learning. Today I intuitively choose this deck. Knowing absolutely nothing...I have been taking a class on how to read tarot's and history of them...but the teacher pointed out..mine are different and there for many of what she will teach will not pertain to my deck...she says they are the original.
Agree with you about the tarot de Marseille as a system with more possibilities to learn it . This Tarot is not like the others systems which are lock upor limited ; But what do you think about the Jodorowsky4S approach which can be a method or a vision of the Tarot finally like the english system ? an only point of view?
You see, I kind of understand your point, & let me say that I love the Tarot de Marseilles deck, but where you go wrong, I feel, is in thinking that TdM had no "human interaction". It was literally created by humans, or it wouldn't exist as a deck. I get that it is more open to interpretation, but there are dozens of authors who have given THEIR interpretations for the TdM. We either follow them, or create our own. We can do the same with RWS, Thoth, Hermetic Tarot, You either follow, or change to suit yourself. As for "World view", TdM depicts people dressed in period, European garb. How does an Arab, or East Asian, or Native American, or Native, tribal African relate to that? The cool thing now is that there are "themed decks" which give a different slant on the archetypes,for those who find Renaissance period European art, or Victorian English art, too confronting. Of late, I have been using a lot of Vampire decks; but I still use what I call "historic, traditional" decks too: Marseilles, Visconti, 1JJ suisse, Rider Waite, & occasionally Thoth. Just offer my point of view. Xx
Of course TDM was created by humans, but it has no dogma and there is no "book of instructions" like in the RWS or Thoth decks. From my experience the rws gives false readings as it still have the author imprint and meanings, it is based on some idea, world view, philosophy etc.. In tdm we are open for interpretations and can program the deck for ourselves when the rws and thoth already programmed. The illustrations in the tdm are outdated of course but I find the rws illustrations even worse than tdm. I find the tdm to be more mystical deck than rws.
@@esotericraintarot4547 that's fair comment. What I have done with illustrated decks is find ones that resonate with me, sure as the tarot V, & le tarot interdit. I do enjoy the TdM though, & am working to better understand it.
But is there a TdM instruction booklet written by the creators telling us what each card means? No human interaction is like this mysterious deck but no traditional hard meaning for any of it that comes with the deck.
I am not a specialist, but Tarot de Marseille was a standard playing card deck, since a while before, the order of the cards was fixed already. When French cartomancers started to use it for divination, some of them modified it. (Etteilla for example and others) Waite was English and a member of the Golden Dawn (esoteric society) He changed Justice et Strength numerations to fit an astrological zodiac order. Justice with Libra and Strength for Leo. Crowley (Thoth) too was member of the Golden Dawn. So you have a French Tarot tradition (Marseille) and an English one(Rider-Waite-Smith) and Thoth (2 of them from Golden Dawn). So it isTarot de Marseille the original.
I love Marseille and lenormand for all they are, what they tell and what you don't want to hear. RWS is more like a good time with a friend who you can bully 🤣
You’re absolutely correct! But you can apply this concept to any deck not just TDM . For example I read my RWS deck the exact same way I do my French, Thoth, Italian or Swiss decks! YES this can be applied to any deck! Mind blowing isn’t it 🤯
Hi Missouri, firstly, I'd like to apologize for my weird writting, as english is not my first langage. I aslo am , not a Tarot reader or anything. But over the years, I used the TDM arcanes to meditate and help me understand my own path of life. The fact that you used the verb "reading" in your message is really interesting to me (who know nothing about fortune-telling). It's curious because, when something is read, it means it has been written. And of course, anything written comes from the human mind ... so it bears meaning, and sometimes even purpose. Of course, when authors like Crowley or Waite, writte essays about the true meaning of tarot (meaning), and then edit a custom deck, with pictures made to better illustrate their own interpretation ... well this is purpose right there, because they want to make sure, everyone understands their vision. And yes, anyone can ignore their teachings while reading their cards, but all of their beliefs and, dare I say maybe, obsessions, can still be found on each and every cards they designed. However, the meaning and purpose of the TDM have been lost in history. So, if you'd like to find a meaning behind its arcanes, you'll HAVE to look inward and dive deep into your subconscience ; not someone else's.
Hmm…I’m an RWS practitioner and never once have I felt that I’m bound to an established interpretation of a card. In fact, I have never even used the booklet for the RWS decks I bought simply because each card functions differently for every reading I perform. Judgement for instance may mean one thing in a reading and takes on a different meaning in another. This is because cards operate within a particular context in a reading. So it doesn’t matter the deck of choice, be it TDM or RWS, free flow of meaning can occur but with RWS I find it encourages us to be contextually fitting to achieve logical degree of coherent accuracy. I think the multiple borrowings of various philosophies and spiritualities embedded in the RWS render the cards a richer and more diverse experience for they are multidimensional in the approach of interpretation. After all, human experiences are complex, rich, layered and non-linear which are what RWS visual art masterfully capture.
I do think you need a starting point though - even if it's only a buzzword for each card - a general meaning to suggest advice so that when you know what each card means, you can instantly read smoothly and realize what they are telling you. Otherwise why even use the cards at all ?.. A lot of people love the Thoth deck claiming it to be " deep " but I abandoned it after I realized it was taking me off on a tangent called the Kaballah.. .which I have no interest in. Crowley too for that matter.
Thank you, I value this opinion so much, and it found me at the perfect time. I am studying tarot to be an intuitive reader, this deck was gifted to me. I believe it is an invitation to create a deeply intuitive system to give myself and my clients and people a deep, genuine authentic reader from a deeply intuitive and receptive place. Thank you!!!!!!
Thank you! Refreshing to hear your original and honest perceptions. I think you are saying that you want to work with the pure archetypal images that derive from psychological truth. With that; you dont need invented dogma. It seems to me all the added symbols of later decks and added doctrinal baggage was an attempt to fill the gaps in knowledge. If you cannot fathom the original meaning you feel compelled to invent meaning lol. The TdM tarot is the deck for purists. It is full of hidden secrets.
Hi Helena I had a look at your video but I have to say that I was a little disappointed to say the least. I was expecting a proper review of your book with some kind of indication of what it looks like on the inside, the way most of the reviews are done. Although I'm sure your book is very good I make a point of never buying a product with a least a minimum of information be it books, cards or whatever, as to avoid disappointment. I'm sure you can understand this when yourself are buying. I'm hoping that you will decide to make a more informative video regarding your book.
Tarot is not a system. It's a pack of cards. There may be systems applied with it, such as the Tree of Life. What you've said about the Marseilles applies just as much to earlier decks such as the Visconti Sforza.
I tend to agree 💯 some of the cards in rider waite are useless or can mislead you in your reading, when I use rider waite I take out the cards I consider useless 😒 at the same time I consider what Pamela colman Smith was to take the tarot through an evolutionary phase,but I can sense some of the cards were done in a hurry,it would be nice to correct these mistakes made in creating the rider Waite 🤔 like your channel
I also don't like it when people impose their interpretations of the cards or methods of readings on others: "You HAVE TO learn Tarot through THIS deck/book and ONLY use THIS PARTICULAR SPREAD!" ... Tarot is a language where each reader has his own vocabulary and grammar. The *freedom* to build your own interpretations of the individual cards and methods of reading is vital! And I agree Tarot de Marseille is a good system that allows a great deal of this freedom 😃 (I also love the Visconti deck - they don't even write the names of the cards on the majors/trumps, and allow us a richer variety of characters through the extra court cards💕)
@UCRV-37LgAX5rYbyC4NeJVWg It's nice that you weren't forced a method! I have heard from another person (an author of a deck) that she was, though. So we can't say that "no one is forcing you" as a universal truth.
@@edeletwinIm traditional abt cards and spreads. Free style is just not for me. For sure everyone should have choice!
Tarot de Marseille often acts like an inquisitor, it scrutinizes the depths of being with disconcerting acuity and precision.
Nothing can escape the TdM. TdM is able to expose broad daylight the moods, the aspirations, the desires or the best buried secrets.
The more sensitive the problem is for the person, the more TdM will insist on it.
TdM feels no shame, it reveals all the torments of the unconscious, all the blockages interiors, all the most hidden dreams and the most intimate desires.
Tarot de Marseille reveals what you MUST know, while RWS tells you what you WANT to know.
It's good to find tarot readers who are truly dedicated to «Tradition», and who are "free" from the toxic globalist New Age. Excellent videos, and a very interesting and challenging point of view. Best wishes for the continuation of this excellent work.
Thank you for this!! I am looking forward to reading the Tarot de Marseille, and thanks to you and your video, I'm finally going to begin.
When I was first exposed to Tarot in the 1970s it was via the Marseilles and Piedmontese cards.
However the 'system' of Tarot de Marseilles only really goes back to Joseph Maxwell and Paul Marteau in the 1930s-1940s and the deck, originating in 15th century Milanese Tarocchi, was itself really a recreation by Grimaud. Tarot de Marseilles was engraved on my childhood imagination...wonderful, timeless emblems, like brightly coloured folk-art.
This is a great, and very important video. Specially today. I have been using the Waite/Smith deck for decades, but just recently I got the call to go back to the Marseilles deck which I never understood as a young person in the 70s. Your statements and observations are so welcome, and will help me on. my journey to reading with Marseilles deck. So much appreciate your perspective; feels absolutely right on. Blessings to you.
I agree with everything you said. Thanks for sharing! I'll have to check out your channel.
Thank you. The reviews of your book on Amazon are very good.
Thank you for sharing your views and video. I've read with the Rider Waite system for a long time, I'm gonna be purchasing a Marseille deck soon!
I really like your view point of tarot TDM i enjoy listening all of your videos thanks
Thanks for your interpretation! Congratulations from Brazil
im so glad i FOUND you. i just got this deck randomly today. :) many blessings to you and your family 🙏🌞🌚
really appreciated your analysis on this ..OM 🙏
amazing video!
Your explanation, makes sense to me, now I shall buy a Tarot de Marseille pack. Thanks very much.
I picked up a Tarot de Marseille deck in Paris few years back, and just now the Rider Waite deck. Will be fun to work with both. Have several others too. But I love the Marseille deck, yes!
I've been watching this 5 times now and this single video have changed the way I see cards forever! Thank you so much! I'll never forget what is said here! 💛
I bought your book on Amazon two days ago. Really enjoying it
Thank you so much 🙏🏻♥️ may it be very beneficial
thank you!!
I just bought my first ever tarot deck, and the Marseilles is the one I was pulled towards. I don’t know why.
Thank you for this information.
I can't be more agree !
I'm a beginner from Brasil, but I agree with you.
I'm just learning. Today I intuitively choose this deck. Knowing absolutely nothing...I have been taking a class on how to read tarot's and history of them...but the teacher pointed out..mine are different and there for many of what she will teach will not pertain to my deck...she says they are the original.
Which TdM deck do you use?
I love the way that the coins remind me of the designs from cigar boxes when I was a kid...
Agree with you about the tarot de Marseille as a system with more possibilities to learn it . This Tarot is not like the others systems which are lock upor limited ; But what do you think about the Jodorowsky4S approach which can be a method or a vision of the Tarot finally like the english system ? an only point of view?
You see, I kind of understand your point, & let me say that I love the Tarot de Marseilles deck, but where you go wrong, I feel, is in thinking that TdM had no "human interaction". It was literally created by humans, or it wouldn't exist as a deck. I get that it is more open to interpretation, but there are dozens of authors who have given THEIR interpretations for the TdM. We either follow them, or create our own. We can do the same with RWS, Thoth, Hermetic Tarot, You either follow, or change to suit yourself. As for "World view", TdM depicts people dressed in period, European garb. How does an Arab, or East Asian, or Native American, or Native, tribal African relate to that? The cool thing now is that there are "themed decks" which give a different slant on the archetypes,for those who find Renaissance period European art, or Victorian English art, too confronting. Of late, I have been using a lot of Vampire decks; but I still use what I call "historic, traditional" decks too: Marseilles, Visconti, 1JJ suisse, Rider Waite, & occasionally Thoth. Just offer my point of view. Xx
Of course TDM was created by humans, but it has no dogma and there is no "book of instructions" like in the RWS or Thoth decks. From my experience the rws gives false readings as it still have the author imprint and meanings, it is based on some idea, world view, philosophy etc.. In tdm we are open for interpretations and can program the deck for ourselves when the rws and thoth already programmed. The illustrations in the tdm are outdated of course but I find the rws illustrations even worse than tdm. I find the tdm to be more mystical deck than rws.
@@esotericraintarot4547 that's fair comment. What I have done with illustrated decks is find ones that resonate with me, sure as the tarot V, & le tarot interdit. I do enjoy the TdM though, & am working to better understand it.
But is there a TdM instruction booklet written by the creators telling us what each card means? No human interaction is like this mysterious deck but no traditional hard meaning for any of it that comes with the deck.
What's your nationality???
Thank you so much. You inspired me a lot
I went from rider Waite to Thoth to hermetic to TDM. I think TDM is the best for actual reading as it is the most generic with pip cards.
Can you EXPLAIN WHY STRENGTH & JUSTICE CARDS have different numbers in Raide W & Marcelle ?
I am not a specialist, but Tarot de Marseille was a standard playing card deck, since a while before, the order of the cards was fixed already. When French cartomancers started to use it for divination, some of them modified it. (Etteilla for example and others) Waite was English and a member of the Golden Dawn (esoteric society) He changed Justice et Strength numerations to fit an astrological zodiac order. Justice with Libra and Strength for Leo. Crowley (Thoth) too was member of the Golden Dawn.
So you have a French Tarot tradition (Marseille) and an English one(Rider-Waite-Smith) and Thoth (2 of them from Golden Dawn).
So it isTarot de Marseille the original.
Have you ever tried Papus' numerology system for the Minor Arcana?
I love Marseille and lenormand for all they are, what they tell and what you don't want to hear.
RWS is more like a good time with a friend who you can bully 🤣
it depends on the reader.
You’re absolutely correct! But you can apply this concept to any deck not just TDM . For example I read my RWS deck the exact same way I do my French, Thoth, Italian or Swiss decks! YES this can be applied to any deck! Mind blowing isn’t it 🤯
Hi Missouri, firstly, I'd like to apologize for my weird writting, as english is not my first langage. I aslo am , not a Tarot reader or anything. But over the years, I used the TDM arcanes to meditate and help me understand my own path of life.
The fact that you used the verb "reading" in your message is really interesting to me (who know nothing about fortune-telling). It's curious because, when something is read, it means it has been written. And of course, anything written comes from the human mind ... so it bears meaning, and sometimes even purpose.
Of course, when authors like Crowley or Waite, writte essays about the true meaning of tarot (meaning), and then edit a custom deck, with pictures made to better illustrate their own interpretation ... well this is purpose right there, because they want to make sure, everyone understands their vision. And yes, anyone can ignore their teachings while reading their cards, but all of their beliefs and, dare I say maybe, obsessions, can still be found on each and every cards they designed.
However, the meaning and purpose of the TDM have been lost in history. So, if you'd like to find a meaning behind its arcanes, you'll HAVE to look inward and dive deep into your subconscience ; not someone else's.
It’s much better if subtitles are plied on
Hmm…I’m an RWS practitioner and never once have I felt that I’m bound to an established interpretation of a card. In fact, I have never even used the booklet for the RWS decks I bought simply because each card functions differently for every reading I perform. Judgement for instance may mean one thing in a reading and takes on a different meaning in another. This is because cards operate within a particular context in a reading. So it doesn’t matter the deck of choice, be it TDM or RWS, free flow of meaning can occur but with RWS I find it encourages us to be contextually fitting to achieve logical degree of coherent accuracy.
I think the multiple borrowings of various philosophies and spiritualities embedded in the RWS render the cards a richer and more diverse experience for they are multidimensional in the approach of interpretation. After all, human experiences are complex, rich, layered and non-linear which are what RWS visual art masterfully capture.
I do think you need a starting point though - even if it's only a buzzword for each card - a general meaning to suggest advice so that when you know what each card means, you can instantly read smoothly and realize what they are telling you. Otherwise why even use the cards at all ?.. A lot of people love the Thoth deck claiming it to be " deep " but I abandoned it after I realized it was taking me off on a tangent called the Kaballah.. .which I have no interest in. Crowley too for that matter.
Thank you, I value this opinion so much, and it found me at the perfect time. I am studying tarot to be an intuitive reader, this deck was gifted to me. I believe it is an invitation to create a deeply intuitive system to give myself and my clients and people a deep, genuine authentic reader from a deeply intuitive and receptive place. Thank you!!!!!!
Thank you! Refreshing to hear your original and honest perceptions. I think you are saying that you want to work with the pure archetypal images that derive from psychological truth. With that; you dont need invented dogma. It seems to me all the added symbols of later decks and added doctrinal baggage was an attempt to fill the gaps in knowledge. If you cannot fathom the original meaning you feel compelled to invent meaning lol. The TdM tarot is the deck for purists. It is full of hidden secrets.
Hello Helena in your book do you also teach about the minor pip cards as well as the major cards?
Hi, Yes sure! Plus timing, colors, card illustration and more.. Going to upload a video soon about the book
@@esotericraintarot4547 great! I will wait for your video before I buy. Thank you.
@@purplemoon3816 Just uploaded
Hi Helena I had a look at your video but I have to say that I was a little disappointed to say the least. I was expecting a proper review of your book with some kind of indication of what it looks like on the inside, the way most of the reviews are done. Although I'm sure your book is very good I make a point of never buying a product with a least a minimum of information be it books, cards or whatever, as to avoid disappointment. I'm sure you can understand this when yourself are buying. I'm hoping that you will decide to make a more informative video regarding your book.
It amazes me how so much occult/magic these days is directly based off a Golden Dawn system, (or Wicca).
i can read only major arcana cz the minor doesnt have illustration
Tarot is not a system. It's a pack of cards. There may be systems applied with it, such as the Tree of Life. What you've said about the Marseilles applies just as much to earlier decks such as the Visconti Sforza.
Hi there! I would like to ask you if you do private readings?
Hi, currently in a break from readings I will let you know when I come back
I tend to agree 💯 some of the cards in rider waite are useless or can mislead you in your reading, when I use rider waite I take out the cards I consider useless 😒 at the same time I consider what Pamela colman Smith was to take the tarot through an evolutionary phase,but I can sense some of the cards were done in a hurry,it would be nice to correct these mistakes made in creating the rider Waite 🤔 like your channel
But if you are starting out how do you read minor arcana cards in this deck with no scenes…
You can download my book it is useful for beginners as well.
I am not sure how I feel about the way she refers to Eastern philosophy and Qabalah, but her perception of the TdM is interesting.