5 Problems with the Rapture
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- čas přidán 29. 12. 2017
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Many Christians believe that Jesus will return secretly before a seven year tribulation. However, the Biblical evidence shows something different.
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You only have half the story. Look at the counter reformer Jesuit named Francisco Ribera. He developed the pretrib premillennialism scheme around 1585. He was trying to distract the Lutherans and reformers from pointing to the papacy as antichrist. Darby found his writings, and further developed them for his church the Plymouth Brethren.
Dr. Cooper, I am glad I found you. I found you while looking about information on Dr. Heiser. While I am not a Lutheran, I appreciate your way of explaining things. Such as not being arrogant but thoughtful and your care. Keep up the great work my Brother!
The concept is definitely not definitive by text, but the whole purpose of separating the wheat from the chaff is to siv those who endeavour stature in their lives, by process of warning and judgement.
As its not clear that there is a THE rapture, it is possible that it could be a process of Worthy, Wormwood and Return, depending on a need for refinement and then ultimate repentance."These things must happen" when the events play out. Therefore understanding of prophesy is to adopt a possibility that it happens at different times of this process and not at once.
Does anyone tackle the mid tribulation prophesy of the angel and the little book? if this is not to imply a rapture is sweet before the wrath is poured out, but bitter to those who still have to face it.
@@RHope7 The current theme of the "rapture" is a relatively new idea only going back to the 1800s... The word rapture comes from Medieval Latin - obsolete French which means "to seize" but the Greek word that is used means "will be caught up". If we read the entire chapter of 1 Thessalonians 4 we can see that Paul is writing to the Church of Thessalonica. We have to take the entire chapter and what is being said into context. This is talking about the 2nd Coming of Christ towards the end of this chapter. We can refer to Matthew 24, Revelation 13-20, Daniel concerning the abomination of desolation and Daniels Trouble (70 weeks)... to see that what Paul is telling them is what Jesus taught to them. That in the end times, "the church" isn't going to vanish before the shit hits the fan, no... That all of these woes and sorrows must come first. The Gospel (The Word) must be spread throughout the Entire World... Then the Antichrist will be revealed and take his seat of power and will cause all to worship the mark of the beast. Those who refuse, those whose names are written in the Book of Life will be persecuted, tortured, even beheaded. The entire thing about 1 Thess 4:17 refers to our Resurrection or the transformation from our physical flesh bodies into our Spirit bodies on the Day that Christ Returns when he sends his 4 angels out to gather those that are his. That's what this verse refers to. We are to be vigilant each and every single day as if his return is Right Now! Now, oh laid back, let's party and whore around for a bit because he'll take us away before the great calamity... Yeah, that's not going to happen! They didn't believe Noah in his day when the rains came... sucks to be them! They were forewarned! The same applies to those in the last days including the Church. Many will claim that the great retainer has to removed first, okay sure, I've read that verse... but is that great retainer really the church? If you read Revelation 13-20 closely the destruction that comes from Mystery Babylon... it sounds a lot like a modern city to me... Perhaps, Rome, or London, or NYC... And the fact that the US is currently supporting modern day Israel... Maybe perhaps the great retainer is the United States. Sure our government is a secular nation and always has been, but many of her people are of Christian roots and values. Now those roots and values are beginning to wain, to fall away... So when her inequity overflows the cup of God's patience and wrath... perhaps it is her destruction that is being described in Revelation... perhaps it is our Constitution and ideas of Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness within our Constitution is what's helping to hold evil at bay. Sure we are not a perfect nation but the Lord has blessed us and will continue to do so as we continue to support Israel. If we ever turn our backs on her, He'll turn his back on us... And just look at what's going on in the Middle East right now! Oh and I've already witnessed her destruction over 23 years ago when my Spirit was pulled from my body without ever losing consciousness. Yes, I have seen it, felt it, and smelt it, and I'm telling you it is not for the faint of heart. Even the strongest of hearts would be pleading for mercy if they've seen what I witnessed... It hasn't happened yet, but it is going to one day. Oh and it's not some small isolated destruction... No, this had about 100 mile radius and if felt as if I was standing on the surface of the Sun! And the smell was putrid, I can never forget the smell. Fire, and ashe, burnt rubber, burnt trash and sewage, and worst of all the smell of death everywhere...
I tend to disagree , Dr Jonathan E Miller D.Theo Specializing in ancient inscriptions of the Middle East and Hebrew artifacts. , Will form a formal position paper and send it for your review by week's end,
May our heavenly father be with you always.
P.S. I myself was raised Lutheran ,the problem is not a misunderstanding of the biblical text, rather one of what was left out of the Bible. Much like arch angel Uriel , the scriptures concerning the rapture were removed by pope Zachary.
It is worrisome that people cannot read and think for themselves but abdopt what others tell them what the scripture says.
that would require study and focus sunday schoolers don't want to work that hard
@mark9051 it would be nice if reading your post we would know where you stand. You can't write for yourself and it's worrisom.
Sounds like an unrighteous judgement
Well he said lean not unto your own understanding ...
Ain't it the truth 😅
Thank you for the info. I’m honestly not sure what to think , but I do know God is in control. Whatever happens, we must hold on to that truth.
- @williamredfield6006
1 second ago
@JennieRose8 - The Gospel message is initially to Israel and not to the Church. The Old Testament is about Israel. The Gospels are a segue from the Old Testament to the New Testament. Jesus was prophesied by the prophets of old to be the Messiah, the Redeemer of Israel. Jesus had to keep the Law to the fullest, which He did. He then came and presented Himself (on the day we refer to as "Palm Sunday"), but Israel rejected her Messiah (this occurred as prophesied by Gabriel to Daniel 173,880 days from the proclamation to rebuild Jerusalem). Jesus told the leadership of Israel in Matthew 23 (where He dressed down the leadership) that they would not see Him again until they cried "Baruch haba B'shem Adonai" (verse 39). He was crucified by the will of the leadership of Israel in cooperation with the Roman leadership, which was more interested in self-preservation than in truth and justice.
The Church is the Bride of Christ (Ephesians 5:23-27; cf., Revelation 19:7-9). Is it traditional for the Bridegroom to put the Bride through tribulation before the Marriage?
What is the purpose of the Tribulation anyway?
When Jesus returns to the earth, what does He do initially? Does He receive the Church unto Himself? Oh, wait, they were already with Him in heaven... (cf., Zechariah 1:5).
Why does Paul say, not once, but twice, We are not destined for wrath? (Romans 5:9; 1 Thessalonians 5:9)?
Why did Jesus, after the Olivet discourse, tell the Disciples in the upper room that He was going to prepare a place for them in His Father's house where there are many rooms (John 14:1-3) and when it was ready, He would receive them unto Himself so that they could be with Him always, (that would be heaven where He is seated at the right hand of His Father, on His Father's throne)?
Was this limited to the Disciples only?
Daniel (2 & 7) finds himself right at the beginning of the end, where the times of the Gentiles begin. In all that he is privy to, he also learns that it is the Divine that conquers and concludes the times of the Gentiles, and then, who will reign (Zechariah 14)?
Daniel learns from Gabriel that 6 things must be completed for Israel (cooperate) and Jerusalem, "... to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy place" (Daniel 9:24). This is prophetic information that needs to be identified as fulfilled or pending fulfillment. Once you realize that Israel is the center of eschatology (Jesus is the spirit of prophecy; He came to the lost sheep of the house of Israel (Matthew 10:6, 15:24)) the truth will come into full view ~
Dear Jennie Rose, do you have personal relationship with The Lord? Didn"t the Lord warn, "Take heed that no man deceive you?" (Matthew 24:4). Do wolves in sheep"s clothing have a desperately dashing necessity to be thanked for their customary job of perverting the sound word and sound doctrines of our Lord Yeshua The Messiah? To my humble mind, they have NO such need... they shall receive special thanks from The Lord Himself, and this thank will be embodied as the lake of fire.
Trust no one, no one. When you are thinking like you are; then is the time to claim God's promise . John 7:17 KJV: If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself. Note ;do his will is a condition needed to receive a answer.
As someone who was raised evangelical, I took the rapture theory as a given. I never had read the Bible for myself, taking for granted what other religious people said. Since coming to the Lord just eight short years ago, I began reading for myself. It was like night and day. I have had to unlearn everything I thought I knew. I know nothing at all, just that God is, and I am not Him. I have had to learn to trust the Holy Spirt in reading and understanding the scriptures, abandoning verse and chapter numbers, and reading through God's eyes and understanding, not my own. And it all began with one verse: Matthew 22:32.
I thought it to be true as well, but by the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ my eyes were opened. If a fool like me can see past such a lie others should surely be able too. May the Lord be with you.
@@dennismartin5821 so you call them lies now? The change in mind might be foolish and double minded thinking James 1:5-8.
@@rickhuntling7338 Dude, I am 53 years old now, and an eleven year stroke survivor. The world was supposed to come to and end so many times now, I've lost count. And everybody on God's green earth has been alleged to be the antichrist boogey man. Chick Tracts and Vatican conspiracies. And on and on and on...
You know what's scary? Not having God in your life, and I don't mean pretentious morality, trying to earn His favor. I am talking about relationship with Him. See Hosea 6:6
@tvmasterc Mat. 22:32 is a good verse to use on Mormon baptism of the dead but I'm not seeing how it makes you discern any better. Verse 29 is excellent on Mormons who accuse the bible as being corrupted. JESUS said the Sadducees err in scripture and the power of GOD, meaning the scriptures are still alive and the same because of the power of GOD to preserve HIS Word uncorruptible. The next verse puts Mormon sealed eternal marriage to rest being no marriage nor giving in marriage in the resurrection.
Read Isa. 26:19-21, Rev. 6:11, 12:5-12, Jn. 14:1-3 these are concrete Pre-Trib proof text, so read them with an open hear, you'll be amazed at the harmony. Plus you got some scripture when the Mormons knock on the door.
@@rickhuntling7338 The verse in question (Matthew 22:32) is very important to me, because my best friend committed suicide in 1984. My very religious stepmother said he was in hell. We were fourteen. I was very bitter and angry, hating God.
I had a stroke on the exact same day in 2012. I should have died but didn't. I had to trust the God I hated just to learn to walk again, let alone speak. In February 2016, He showed me David's grave and where it was (I had not gone to the funeral as I was too upset). Seeing it for the first time was difficult. I wept for about an hour. As I was about to leave (and I certainly can't explain this) I suddenly knew he had a brother named Steve. I thought I was out of my mind. But Steve is a real person. He is the pastor of a church in Houston. I actually spoke with him on the phone. He didn't know me from Adam, but it was he who gave this verse, the first verse I ever heard outside of John 3:16.
It shattered everything I thought I knew, and helped me realize I knew nothing at all. God had reached out to me in relationship. He saw through all my religiosity and how fake it was. It was God and not religion that helped me find peace.
A good straightforward video. I grew up w the dispensationalist view and Hal Lindsay’s Late Great Planet Earth had some influence on my conversion. I’m now in an Anglican Church which I love. There’s always going to be disagreements in the Church about points of theology and whether those points of disagreement are minor or heretical in nature. May God give us grace and discernment in these dark days. I’m glad I came across this….it gave some perspective to my shifting theology and growth over the years.
John 3:16 is key and also John 14:6. absolutely correct! The rapture and the second coming of Jesus are two distinct events. I want to share my video czcams.com/video/mQLucXkZAVE/video.html
Why did Jesus said we must pray to escape the things to come in Luke 21:36 and who is the people in heaven from every tongue, tribe and nation in Rev 5:8-10 as he selectively omitted this passages to prove his point.
I think the preaching of the rapture is dangerous.A teaching that will cause many to fall away!!!😢
That was your problem letting Hal Lindsey be your source instead of the bible, but it doesn't change the fact the Rapture is Pre-Trib.
tu quoque, cuts both ways! hundreds of thousands of peer reviewed subject matter eschatological experts interpret the total fund of evidence as supporting the pre trib/disp position-at least as a baseline/default position which best reconciles the antimonious/ambiguous "far from granularly clear" eschatological texts , and so do hundreds of millions worldwide of lay Christians, so I would say YOU are wasting OUR time! namaste, Q.E.D., word up!
When the repeat occurs, you can skip to: 8:59
Rapture or not ... Repent and love your neighbour 😏
Amen
Lolol 😏
@@rL81982 yeah right
Exactly. Not sure why people keep preaching about rapture rather than going out and loving their neighbor.
@@barbaramazzocca4605 it's not about arguing to be right it's about people looking to be lifted out of difficult circumstances if we are in the end times. The Bible speaks about the great falling away and if people are suddenly realizing that they have been lied to because they have not been removed from the difficult times that may be ahead their faith could fail them. As well many pre-tribers are tied in with doctrines such as Word of Faith and prosperity teaching. The pre-trib rapture can only be embraced through inferences. When my friends started speaking to me about it I decided to read the Bible for what the Bible says instead of what books sold by humans say and there is absolutely no pre-trib doctrine in the Bible unless someone knits it together out of context.
It's ALL about loving our neighbor to speak truth! And at the same time we can be feeding the hungry visiting the widow and the orphan and the person in jail the person that is sick and giving to the needy.
Love God and love your neighbor. Loving God is loving the truth because Jesus is truth.
If 1st Thessalonians 4:17 is taught to be so loud and visible so every eye shall see, why did they believe they missed the Rapture and the Tribulation had begun?
The Doc. doesn't recognize the shout and blowing a trumpet were Jewish wedding traditions. The father being the only one to know the day and hour would tell his son it's time go get your bride. The groom and his chaperon friends on the way would shout and announce with trumpets their coming so she knew to get ready to be snatch away. The groom snatched the bride away and return to his father's house where a place was prepared for them. This was referred to as "like a thief in the night" because the bride was always taken at the midnight hour.
100 % correct.
Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will gather us up to the sky, the dead in Christ first, and then the saved that are alive.
Please read the Bible.
God Bless Y'all.
It really doesn't matter to me one bit if there is a Rapture. I got saved at 22 years old. I was healthy, full of life, and waiting for the Rapture. Now...I am almost 70. My health is gone, many of my Christian friends have gone to be with the Lord, I am old, tired, played out. I doubt I have much time left on the Earth anyway. Soon, I will be gone too...
I hope your experiences and the wisdom gained by them is valued by others and that you live long and share your highest aspirations, your noblest principles, and your greatest anchors to Faith in Christ. I pray your witness and service to others is magnified and multiplied by the Holy Spirit, and Jesus is exalted in your words and deeds.
Pray for your departed friends and family souls. Repent and confess your sins. Jesus is waiting for you.
Well thats right. Thats the whole thought about time as we go thru an entire life thinking the world cant get much worse, where is the 'rapture'. But we never know , however look at signs being manifested that didnt just 20-30 years ago. Like "every toungue shall speak my name". I look at Asia where religion is outlawed. The USA ready to go digital cash. China, Russia, Iran, Biden becoming buddies agasint Israel. There is a lot happening all of a sudden in 1 decade. Yeah but we gotta be ready to die either way.
@@joep1265 Why would he pray for those that are already dead? They're either in heaven or hell.
That’s why I keep telling pretribbers not to hold there breath 😂this poor women just said she been waiting for the rapture for 22 years and now is about to leave on her own ( God bless your soul lady ) but that’s how everyone waiting for the rapture is going to go out, except we will be in the tribulation and not die peacefully like you. Your blessed !
He coming back for those looking for his return......
When you see these signs look up your redemption is near
Look for the signs of his return
Pray that your worthy to escape what is coming on the earth
Yes, Amen!
With all due respect sir it is obvious that this fellow has not done his homework. I suggest you look up the writings Zola Levitt. Where he speaks and explains in layman terms the Jewish marriage supper and how it relates to Jesus Christ. Then you may begin to start understanding The Rapture promise. It is not a theory. Good luck
@@jonstephenson609 the wedding is with the bride not the married wife who's children of the desolate are greater than that of the married wife; Isa. 54:1, Dan. 9:27
@@jonstephenson609 correct,
1st the bride hears the contract "gospel heard and accepted.
He pays a worthy price for her, ✝.
He goes back to his father's house to prepare a place for them, "many mansions".
The bride watches for she knows not when the groom might come to snatch her away.
"Only the father knows the day and hour"
SON go get your bride.
He leaves with friends in the midnight hour, the friends blow trumpets along the way.
She is snatch away back to HIS father's house and hidden for 7 days "7 years".
They come out married forever and the wedding supper begans the last cup is drank.
@@jonstephenson609 no thanks. Paul from Tarsus is my rebbe
Those who teach the pretrib rapture talk about tribulation saints as those left behind but the bible makes no separate distinction of leftover saints. And no mention of any left behind other than those of us who are living who follow the dead in Christ.
Pre-tribbers have to make up ALLL kinds of things to try to deal with the clear contradiction of the Bible to their belief. They ALSO have to REMOVE plainly stated meaning in scripture to try to force their belief into the Bible.
I read Hal Lindsay as a youth, also a lot of other books on the subject. As I grew in faith, I started to realize that dispensational theology is weak in it biblical foundations. In graduate school I finally read George Eldon Ladd’s “The Blessed Hope.” That nailed it, because I finally had found a scholar who could clearly articulate all the problems I was seeing in the text for dispensationalism. That’s not to say that you’re going to hell if you believe in the rapture. But don’t lose your faith when you have to go through the tribulation. You’re not left behind. You’re just suffering the temptation that’s common to all humanity. Remember, Jesus promised salvation to those who stood firm until the end.
The Holy Spirit is in every believer at the moment they believe the Gospel (Ephesians 1:13&14) and it is the Holy Spirit that restrains the man of sin. The Holy Spirit continues to restrain until He is taken out of the way. Since He indwells believers, we will be removed with Him or otherwise we are left on earth to fend for ourselves. If there is no rapture then the Thessalonians would not be concerned that they could have missed the gathering together with the Lord and the catching way comes first. Thessalonians 2:1-3 False teachers do not rightly divide the Word of God and teach that salvation by Grace alone + nothing can be found in the four gospels. The truth is that Paul alone was given the Gospel of Grace and He alone is the Apostle to the gentiles.
regardless we get raptured or resurrected from our dead bodies it is all about John 3:16 and John 14:6, period. However there are solid cases proving The rapture and the second coming of Jesus are two distinct events. I want to share my video czcams.com/video/mQLucXkZAVE/video.html
Brother if you read in thessalonians it clearly states that the rapture of the church is coming plus there are a lot of places in the Bible that talks about it and tells us all about the Blessed Hope!!! And that is a promise from GOD HIM Self and GOD DOES not lie!!! Plus even Jesus said it as he assended to heaven I go to prepare aplace for you so where i am you will Also be. So there is a Rapture when it will be we don't know not even Jesus Knows but GOD Knows!!! So keep looking up cause our redemptions IS drawing nigh!!!!
Yes correct, plus when the tribulation starts the Holy Spirit will still be working but as He Did in the old testament times. @@duanehamilton3247
@@duanehamilton3247 I agree but also Jesus was filled with the Holy Spirit when He was baptized. I believe that we, just as Jesus was, are filled with the Holy Spirit when we are baptized. We are Christ followers doing as He did just not as perfectly. Matt 24 clearly explains that Christ returns for us immediately after the Tribulation. People ought to research the Bible instead of letting others do it for them. It is very clear on Christ's return. When I was young I didn't know the Scriptures so I was deceived. After reading the Bible cover to cover for many years I could not find any confirmation of a Rapture. Christ comes for us to bring Judgement & rewards, give us new bodies that never die, destroy evil and rule the earth with us according to the Bible. Pretty exciting.
I was raised in a denomination that teaches the rapture. When I was a kid, if I woke up and didn't find anyone in the house, I would sometimes think the rapture came and I got left behind. Every time it turned out they were just outside or somewhere else in the house. At any rate, I started to get skeptical about the rapture because there is nothing like it in Revelation. It is always inferred to occur in Revelation before the anti-Christ comes, even though it's not mentioned to have occurred. If you just read through Revelation, you won't get this idea of a rapture. Also, if the Rapture occurs before the tribulation, then what Christians are being killed and massacred during that time? Who is getting their heads cut off? Furthermore, some of the arguments for the rapture are arrived at through inductive reasoning, like "Jesus wouldn't leave us with no escape," or "why would Jesus let this happen to his church?" As for that, Jesus allowed his apostles to be killed, some of them quite horrifically. Those guys were his personal friends that traveled with him and learned from him directly. What are any of us compared with that?
Well then I guess we where created without being asked. Then we human with souls got thrown into huge chess game between God and Satan. Because that's about all we must be then. A item to be forced into chess game a item to be tortured and suffer in tribulation we entertain God and Satan As they are collecting of chess pieces is playing in front heaven. Kinda like what Romans did to there slaves..... That's sadly what we are. It's actually horrible set up. What we are.
@@sevenmiller9042 This world is indeed horrible, but I wouldn't refer to it as a chess game between God and Satan. Chess occurs between people of equal or similar capability. There is no competition between God and Satan. Satan is a created being with finite power, while God is infinite and can crush him at any time. As for why he doesn't crush him right now and get it over with, I can't say. When he does that the final judgment will immediately follow, and most people will be cast into the lake of fire. I think one reason he delays is to give as many people he can a chance to get saved. That seems to be the pattern I see in scripture. Eventually it's going to culminate in the rule of the antiChrist, maybe soon. During that time God will give lots of signs and warnings, and most people will still choose their wickedness. After the Antichrist is defeated, God will lock up Satan for 1000 years, and there will be peace. The he will release him one more time, and again most people will choose Satan. After that, there will be the judgment. American Christians think they will get raptured because they haven't endured grinding persecution like Christians in so many other places, and many can't imagine it. But there is no rapture, it's just wishful thinking. If you talk to Middle Eastern Christians, they have already been suffering torture and persecution for over 1000 years. They don't believe any sort of rapture because 1) it's not in scripture and 2) God hasn't beamed them out of their current situation. So there we are.
Luke 17:25-37
King James Version
25 But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation.
26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
>>>In comparing Himself to these two things, the Lord teaches us a lot about how He purifies us. “But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap.” Malachi 3:2.
WE WIL BE REFINED through the tribulations!!!
-----There WILL BE millions that will refuse to follow Jesus. You think He will save them??? THere will be MILLIONS that WILL give in to the anti-christ and worship the Beast..Will God save them to??? Even to the last , there will be millions that follow Jesus, then give up.
-----What does the Bible say about refiners fire?
Zechariah 13:9, referring to the end-time remnant of Israel, says, “And I will bring the third part through the fire, refine them as silver is refined, and test them as gold is tested, they will call on My name, and I will answer them; I will say, 'They are My people,' and they will say, 'The Lord is My God. '”
-----What Scripture is refiner based on?
Lines 3 and 4: God is the refiner's fire, removing the impurities within us to become more holy and testing the integrity of our heart, just like a smith might do with gold or silver (Job 23:10, Psalm 51:7-17, Psalm 66:10, Proverbs 17:3, Isaiah 48:10, Zechariah 13:9, Malachi 3:3, and 1 Peter 1:7).
----What does the Bible say about God refining us?
Isaiah 48:10 shares how God refines us: "I have refined you, but not as silver is refined. Rather, I have refined you in the furnace of suffering."
(how will you suffer anything IF you do NOT go through the tribulations???)
----What is the spiritual meaning of the refiners fire?
God uses trials to test the reality of our faith in a similar way to the process of purifying precious metals. God ordains trials to test the reality of our faith in a way that's similar to the process of purifying precious metals.
----What does God use to refine us?
In both the Old and New Testaments, we find numerous references to God refining His children through fiery trials in much the same way an earthly refiner uses fire to purify gold and silver. The Lord says, “I have refined you, though not as silver; I have tested you in the furnace of affliction.”
----What does the Bible mean by refiner?
In the various Bible references the refining of precious metals is used figuratively to illustrate the kind of trial God's children are called upon to go through. If they are of the right metal the dross will finally be blown away, leaving pure, clear, shining silver.
----Why God puts us through the fire?
God uses FIRE to chasten us when we stray away from him (Heb. 12:5-11); and then God uses fire to keep us on our knees, to bring us to a place in him where He can use us for His glory.
-----How does the Lord purify us?
In his mercy, God sent his Son, Jesus, so that he could forgive us our sins and create pure hearts in us. In John 17, Jesus prays that his followers will be “sanctified” (purified) through himself and through the truth of God's Word.
@@mitchellosmer1293 I agree with this take. The reference to the flood is our clue about who is taken and who is left. Rapture theorists think the Christians will be taken, but actually when the flood occurred it was all the wicked people who were taken, so this passage is probably a reference to what happens after the tribulation when everyone who took the mark is thrown into the Lake of Fire.
@@Procopius464 quote---I agree with this take. The reference to the flood is our clue about who is taken and who is left. .... unquote
Yes--thanks---Not often I hear from someone that understands.
So many believe they will be "taken away" (raptured )before the tribulations.
My fear is that those who expect to be raptured and are not will lose their faith and fall to the vices of Satan
Yes, I see it happening already😞 Check out Gary Demar’s podcast or his book Last Days Madness. Shalom✨
Might as well be mentally prepared
That you are going to be here.
I suggest you do an internet search on 'New Age Rapture'. Please note 'New Age Deception' in your search.
Fear not Gary, see you in the air.
This has been my biggest concern. We know many will fall away from the church and I can see how a pretribulation rapture could cause that to happen if it isn't true. The question I keep asking me is which concept tickles my ears the most and of course it would be the one that gets us out of here before the great tribulation. I would rather build my faith in a way that is prepared to endure the great tribulation, worst case I get to leave early.
Thank you for this good work.
Pastor Cooper, I am reminded about Matthew 27: 51-53. Immediately after Christ's death, graves opened up and the dead inside then regained life and began walking around. Some people use this incident in support of the coming or the rapture. What is your opinion on this?
Dr. Gordon
I listened to your video. I happen to believe in a Pre-Tribulation rapture and would like to comment about it.
But before I do, I first want to say I appreciate the fact that you are looking to the scriptures to support your thesis. I have encountered numerous persons who will argue (and even denounce), when someone disagrees with them, but they can only cite their ecclesiastical dogma. I am of the opinion (and I believe you are too) that ecclesiastical dogma must derive from scripture. I consider you a brother in the Lord, and thus, arguing is carnal. My intention here is not to argue over scripture but to share honest disagreements with what scripture teaches.
I want to make sure I am tracking with you, so I will restate what I think your five points are.
1. Not historic church teaching. It was started by for the most part by John Nelson Darby.
2. 1 Thessalonians teaches a very loud and dramatic event.
3. Luke 17 does not speak of God’s people being in the air.
4. 1 Corinthians 15 speaks about one event, not two comings of Jesus.
5. Jesus didn’t teach it.
I know we both can expand on our positions so I will try to be brief.
First, about a historic church teaching: there are many beliefs that the Medieval church held which somehow crept into their belief system over the centuries. Being a Lutheran pastor, I recognize that you believe this too. That was the cause for the Reformation and Luther boldly nailing his 95 theses on the Wittenberg church door. The Reformers had a lot to contend with during those early years of the Reformation, and end-times doctrine wasn’t at the top of the list (in fact, it wasn’t on the list at all). Personally, I believe by the time of John Nelson Darby, he simply took the Reformation to a new level by rediscovering what the early church believed. I won’t go into details of that statement other than to mention that the church believed and taught the imminent return of Jesus Christ. Here are some of the passages:
• Matthew 24:36-44, 25:1-13,
• Luke 12:35-46, 21:34-36,
• John 21:21-23,
• Romans 13:11, 16:20,
• 1 Corinthians 1:7, 4:3-5, 7:26-29,
• Philippians 3:20-21, 4:5,
• 1 Thessalonians 1:9-10,
• 2 Timothy 4:8 (refer to the Koiné Greek),
• Hebrews 10:24-28, 10:35-38,
• James 5:7-8,
• 1 Peter 4:7, and
• Revelation 1:3, 22:6, 22:7, 22:10, 22:12, and 22:20.
So whatever our view of end-times happens to be, we must be looking for the imminent return of Christ. Such a belief system purifies the church (1 John 3:2-3).
Whether believe in a Pre-Tribulation rapture or not, the rapture is a stated event in 1 Thessalonians 4:17. The word used is translated to be “caught up”. The word in the Greek word used here is harpageesómetha, meaning “caught up” or “pulled by force”. In the Latin Vulgate, the word was translated to be rapiemur, where we get the English word “rapture”. So we can discuss the aspects of the rapture (or catching up), but I do not think it is Biblical to deny it.
Second, I agree with you that the event in 1 Thessalonians 4 is a dramatic event. How that plays out to the persons on the ground is open to some discussion. Is it like we see in the movies? Not necessarily, but I believe it could happen in some sense of the word.
Third, and I will tie in your fifth point here, Jesus never taught about the rapture. I believe this is a true statement for the most part (I believe He made some allegorical references to it). But who was His audience here? It was Jews. At this point, the Jewish people had not yet rejected their Messiah. To discuss a body of Gentiles would come on the scene to make the Jewish people jealous (Romans 11:11) for their Messiah would not be understood. In fact, the Twelve had enough trouble understanding His coming death. The church was a mystery, and Jesus would have definitely not mentioned it at this point. That would be the role for his apostles later after the Jewish people rejected Christ.
Fourth, the resurrection is a mystery according to Paul (1 Corinthians 15:51). There is too much to cover here about how 1 Corinthians 15 ties in with Revelation 20:5-6 and 1 Thessalonians 4 (and other passages). But I do not see any trouble with it contradicting a Pre-Tribulation rapture.
Best Regards, Jim
Truth.
Also, how is it if no rapture, that we are with, and behind Christ in pure white when He comes down to destroy His enemies with His words in the final battle?
@@alexrodgers9247 Very much true. I have created a seventy-plus page document on why the Pre-Tribulation Rapture is Biblical. There is waaaaaaay too much to put into a comment, but the point I want to make is about the imminent return of Jesus Christ. The New Testament writers spoke often about this. It wasn't that Jesus was going to return immediately (necessarily from the time that they wrote it), but His return should be considered imminent, like a "thief in the night" (1 Thes. 5:2, 2 Peter 3:10, and others). The problem with the Amillennialist view is that Jesus's return isn't even consider literal by some of this view's adherents. We should be conscientious of His return every time we take communion, according to 1 Cor. 11:26 (how often that might be in one's denomination or affiliation). God bless!
Paul gave you SLEEP and DEAD
1 Corinthians 15 51 & 52 SLEEP and DEAD
The church rapture is at judgement day
Revelation 20 5
But the rest of the DEAD lived not again until the thousand years have finished. This is the first resurrection.
Daniel 12 2 is the second resurrection
And many of them that SLEEP in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
The church rapture is at judgement day
John 6 39-54 Jesus says at the Last day four times. Jesus is truth
No more days after the day Jesus calls the Last day
It's all there in Revelation 20
The ten virgins story proves it too
Matthew 25
Jesus is truth keep the faith
@@alexrodgers9247
The bride of Christ is in spirit form at the marriage supper of the Lamb
Revelation 19
Because she doesn't get her resurrected body until judgement day
John 6 39-54 Jesus says at the Last day four times.
Jesus is truth
The church rapture is at judgement day
Proverbs 10:30 says it all. The righteous shall NEVER be removed, but the wicked shall not inherit the earth.
Kinda hard to get around that one...
The context is clear on that one. It is saying that the wicked will not drive out the good, that evil will not thrive. It has no bearing or contradiction with 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
Noah and Lot were saved from Gods wrath while the others experienced Gods wrath
So, we are talking about the tribulation. Which we clearly go through. The wrath of God isn't until the 7th Trumpet which IS the 7 bowls or wrath. That's when we are raptured, just as Paul says, and as Jesus says.
If you are believers, whether you believe in the Rapture or not..I'll see you on the way up! Bless you all!
or the way down
@@user-pk9yx6hy9z yall are extremely hard to talk to i have so many things im not going to say because it would be from my flesh. but stuff like that irritates the tar out of me
Yes you right, John 3:16 is key! The rapture and the second coming of Jesus are two distinct events. I want to share my video czcams.com/video/mQLucXkZAVE/video.html
THAT is entirely up to you, He gave you a choice to love Him or not... if NOT, then the book of Romans, chapter 1 says He will just GIVE YOU OVER to what YOU want. Is this His will? Of course not, but He doesn't want robots, He wants free thinking people that CHOOSE HIM. I chose HIM over 55 Years ago.
@@user-pk9yx6hy9z
@@user-pk9yx6hy9zMaybe not down but definitely the foolish virgin will find the door shut believing the groom tary in his coming.
Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
Verse?
@@michaelbergeron1554 Luke 21:36
Noah got an "escape" too, with the ark. Lot escaped too, and so did the Israelites in Exodus. They didn't leave earth. The word "escape" has never been attributed to leaving the world all together. It just means a reprieve. We can't add context that isn't there.
@@Littleangel_-jp4xb So what happened to Enock in the bible?
@@Littleangel_-jp4xb Negative ghostwriter. You lost so bad you had to delete your comments in our previous conversation. Remember to push your way to the front of the line for your blessed decap, err hope sir. Actually, does your mother know you are on her computer this late at night?
The problem is alot of good people read one verse and make a doctrine out of it without reading the verses before and after. The big one is when Jesus states "two men will be in the field, one taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding in the mill, one taken the other left." But he also said it will be like THE DAYS OF NOAH! That was judgement. The ones "taken" were the unrighteous, Noah and his family were righteous and were "left" behind. There is no rapture but GOD promises to be with us during tribulation like Daniel was in the lions den.
This.
Jesus is speaking in Matthew 24. And the fact that he speaking means he is teaching the gospel of the kingdom which is different from the gospel of grace which is what Paul was told to bring to the gentiles. Jesus came as a Jew AND to Minister to the Jews it was only after they rejected him and he was put to death was when Paul was able to peach the gospel of grace to the gentiles which were the people who weren’t Jewish. That’s why tribulation and anti christ is meant for the Jews who rejected Jesus so why would they be raptured no that is meant for the church which is the bride of Christ. There are many facts that highlight this but Ofc people who don’t understand bible outside of its words won’t understand this but if you really study the bible and understand the theme of every book going back to the Old Testament it will make sense… think of it like the holy trinity there aren’t any spot on verses that describe this but if you have enough understanding to realize that than you might understand the rapture too
@@Yohan316tell me something, why would you believe in something that was thought up or created in 1830? Most Christians don’t believe in the rapture because: A) it’s not on the Bible and B) it was thought up as the vision of a girl in 1830 and it’s not taken as gospel. The idea of a rapture sounds cool and exciting and makes for good reads and films such as the “left behind” series but i never for once believed it, not even for a second cos i know it was thought up recently.
Luke 17:25-37
King James Version
25 But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation.
26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
>>>In comparing Himself to these two things, the Lord teaches us a lot about how He purifies us. “But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap.” Malachi 3:2.
WE WIL BE REFINED through the tribulations!!!
-----There WILL BE millions that will refuse to follow Jesus. You think He will save them??? THere will be MILLIONS that WILL give in to the anti-christ and worship the Beast..Will God save them to??? Even to the last , there will be millions that follow Jesus, then give up.
-----What does the Bible say about refiners fire?
Zechariah 13:9, referring to the end-time remnant of Israel, says, “And I will bring the third part through the fire, refine them as silver is refined, and test them as gold is tested, they will call on My name, and I will answer them; I will say, 'They are My people,' and they will say, 'The Lord is My God. '”
-----What Scripture is refiner based on?
Lines 3 and 4: God is the refiner's fire, removing the impurities within us to become more holy and testing the integrity of our heart, just like a smith might do with gold or silver (Job 23:10, Psalm 51:7-17, Psalm 66:10, Proverbs 17:3, Isaiah 48:10, Zechariah 13:9, Malachi 3:3, and 1 Peter 1:7).
----What does the Bible say about God refining us?
Isaiah 48:10 shares how God refines us: "I have refined you, but not as silver is refined. Rather, I have refined you in the furnace of suffering."
(how will you suffer anything IF you do NOT go through the tribulations???)
----What is the spiritual meaning of the refiners fire?
God uses trials to test the reality of our faith in a similar way to the process of purifying precious metals. God ordains trials to test the reality of our faith in a way that's similar to the process of purifying precious metals.
----What does God use to refine us?
In both the Old and New Testaments, we find numerous references to God refining His children through fiery trials in much the same way an earthly refiner uses fire to purify gold and silver. The Lord says, “I have refined you, though not as silver; I have tested you in the furnace of affliction.”
----What does the Bible mean by refiner?
In the various Bible references the refining of precious metals is used figuratively to illustrate the kind of trial God's children are called upon to go through. If they are of the right metal the dross will finally be blown away, leaving pure, clear, shining silver.
----Why God puts us through the fire?
God uses FIRE to chasten us when we stray away from him (Heb. 12:5-11); and then God uses fire to keep us on our knees, to bring us to a place in him where He can use us for His glory.
-----How does the Lord purify us?
In his mercy, God sent his Son, Jesus, so that he could forgive us our sins and create pure hearts in us. In John 17, Jesus prays that his followers will be “sanctified” (purified) through himself and through the truth of God's Word.
Regarding Luke17: What do you say about john14:3? He will take us to Him, or what?
It's in harmony with Isa. 26:19-21, the dead rise, we go to HIM and are hidden in chambers while the indignation passes the HE leaves his place to judge the inhabitants on earth. Jude 14 and Zech. 14:5 say HE brings us in tow.
Paired with Isa. 26:19-21 it's irrefutable.
the place he's preparing is the New Jerusalem, the new heaven and earth, which don't happen until after the 1000 year reign.
The rapture takes place at the 7th Trumpet, when the 7 bowls of wrath are released. Jesus comes down to conquer earth. He gathers his elect to Him to join Him in the air(not heaven) and thus we shall always be with Him. No more separation.
Rev 20:4-5 clearly states the FIRST resurrection includes those who were beheaded for Christ's testimony, refused to worship the beast or accept his mark.
The Thes 4:16-17 clearly states the dead in Christ rise FIRST, THEN we who are alive will be caught up to be with Christ.
Obviously, the rapture can't take place before the FIRST resurrection IF they aren't raptured up until the dead in Christ are raised. Since the FIRST resurrection includes those killed by the antichrist, it's impossible for the rapture to take place before the Tribulation.
Jesus proclaims he's not coming until AFTER all these things(After he spelled out the tribulation events)
Paul ALSO says, we will be changed in a moment AT THE LAST TRUMPET. The Last Trumpet IS the 7th Trumpet which IS the 7 bowls of wrath. It ALL adds up, fits pefectly.
ZERO reading meaning into scripture. None of the verses you listed say anything about a rapture before the tribulation. There isn't ANY verse that spells that out.
@@cryptojihadi265Isa. 26:19-21 definitely has the Resurrection and taken to heaven, kept for a little season in many mansions or chambers while the indignation passes. JESUS leaves HIS place to judge the inhabitants on earth.
Every Feast has trumpets.
The Rapture is Rev. 12:5. The war in heaven is a war of railing accusations against the just Raptured Church. The Mercy Seat is presented with the blood and satan is cast down. Rev. 12:12 we dwell and rejoice in heaven. Woe to the inhabitants on earth. Satan knows his time is short. This fits. You're all over the place.
@@cryptojihadi265 You wrote, "The FIRST resurrection includes those who were beheaded for Christ's testimony," Enoch was taken, was that a resurrection? Elijah was taken, was that a resurrection? Neither was dead but were alive at the time they were taken up. 1 Thessalonians 4:13_17 references being met by Christ in the AIR/CLOUDS, not on the earth. Your reference to Revelation's FIRST resurrection does not apply to any of the aforementioned individuals. Jesus returns first, and then the "first resurrection" of the martyrs from the Tribulation period occurs. Jesus is accompanied by the Church which attended the Wedding Feast the Lamb mentioned before Christ's return (Revelation 19).
Thanks for your great explanations!
Very respectfully done, without the rancor and name calling I hear on other channels. This topic is hotter than it needs to be, because no one's salvation is based on eschatology, but rather on the finished work of Christ.
That said, here's another approach to the issue:
There were two lines of OT prophecy pointing to Christ's first coming: one where he reigns on David's throne forever, and another where he would suffer and be "cut off". Reconciling these two lines was difficult, as we find in Luke 24:13+ on the road to Emmaus. It's too long to quote here, but Jesus reconciled these two lines of prophecy, saying "O fools, and slow of heart to believe ALL that the prophets had spoken; didn't the Christ have to suffer, and [then] enter into his glory?" "And beginning with Moses and the prophets, he showed them everything written therein concerning himself."
In other words, both events couldn't happen at once, one had to follow the other.
May I submit that the second coming, likewise, has two lines of prophecy that cannot be fulfilled at once; one must follow the other. As with the first coming, not all the clues are found in one place. But since they are the words of the Holy Spirit (as promised in John 16), we can take it to the bank.
Not everyone over the millenia had access to Bibles that we have today. So there's nothing new about what we're looking at, which underscores my earlier observation that nothing vital to the soul hinges upon it. But it's there.
Anyway, I'll be seeing you, along with all who call upon the name of the Lord, no matter what.
He lied about the early Church writing and beliefs, so what does that make him? Ignorant of the true historicty of the earily church.
@@rickhuntling7338 AN open letter to all the TROLLs that come here every week (any flavor, post trib, preterist, replacement theology, a mill, covenant theology etc etc..... look up "arguendo" on google, So TROLLS, lets say "arguendo" we just "agree 100%' with whatever b.s you are spouting.... riddle all of us this: SERIOUSLY, WHAT "exactly, specifically, precisely" do you want all of us to NOW do differently than we were doing before, assuming as blood bought, born again, ten commandment faithful, prayed up/washed up, Christians who have been witnessing the gospel to the lost, feeding the hungry, healing the sick etc etc. TO DO DIFFERENTLY than we are doing, OTHER THAN..ok wait for it!!! wait for it!! to just THINK like YOU THINK??????????????? ya know no actual real operational, material change, just "THINK LIKE YOU THINK" because.... well because ????????? you luddite slow thinkers may need a little time to understand the point of this question!!!
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RAPTURE SOON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am the progeny of HOLOCAUST SURVIVORS... I BELIEVE MY JESUS is coming SOON to provide ESCAPE from wrath for me and my church and my children and grandchildren!!! I KNOW MY JESUS is NOT going to put his church/his bride/his beloved/his children through 7 years WORSE than the holocaust!!!!! JESUS LOVES HIS CHURCH so much he died for it, JESUS is NOT going to allow the Gates of Hell to prevail against his true remnant church!!! OUR KING is COMING!!!!!!!!!!
It actually IS critical to salvation. God didn't write all these verses about the tribulation, including an entire and final book about it, IF it wasn't important.
Yes, it's absolutely true, that believing or not believing in a pre-trib rapture will save you or condemn you, however, the pre-trib teaching will leave many unprepared for the tribulation that Jesus flat out promised us we would endure.
Even worse, so many pre-tribbers hold it so dogmatically, they actually believe the Bible clearly teaches it, so when it doesn't happen, many will think the Bible lied to them, not their pastors. Now who would be willing to lay down their life for a religion they no longer believe in?
THAT is the danger of the pre-trib rapture teaching.
There is not one verse or passage that spells out a pre-trib rapture. EVERY verse the pre-tribbers like to use, ALL require reading meaning into the text that isn't actually stated.
However, it only takes two passages to nail down the order.
Rev 20:4-5 plainly states the first resurrection includes those who would not accept the mark of the beast or worship his image.
1 Thess 4:16-17 plainly states the dead in Christ rise first, THEN we who are alive and remain will be caught up to be with the Lord.
So clearly since the rapture takes place after a resurrection, it's therefore axiomatic that it can't take place before the FIRST resurrection. Since the first resurrection includes those who were killed by the anti-christ, it's impossible for the rapture to take place before the tribulation and martyr of the saints.
One more verse where Paul states we will be changed at the last trumpet, further nails it down. The last trumpet mentioned in the bible is the 7th trumpet, which IS the 7 bowls of God's wrath, when He comes down to judge the wicked and establish His reign. We are caught up to be with Him when He comes down to establish His Kingdom. So we aren't part of God's wrath, but we obviously are part of the Tribulation, which is why Jesus PROMISES us Tribulation, but Paul says we are not appointed to wrath.
@@cryptojihadi265 The Churches "tribulation" has always existed, just as Jesus said it would. We're in it now.
As for Christians "being unprepared" because of a certain end time eschatology, that would assume a believer could lose his salvation, which further implies he is working for it. If you are Christian, you are in eternal life now, right this minute, with regard to your standing before God. You DO know this, right? If anyone thinks he's "preparing" himself for eternal life, he simply hasn't understood the Gospel, which is the Finished Work of Christ, not the finished work of any man.
As a disciple of Jesus Christ who has access to the Bible in two languages - English and Malayalam (closer to the greek than English), I understand the difficulty of understanding Biblical eschatology from passively reading English translations and paraphrases. The reformation focused on bringing back the truth about soteriology but unfortunately could not get into detailed study of the true Biblical eschatology. Bible is much more complicated than it seems and we need the help of the Holy Spirit to understand it as He is the author. *Rapture will happen.
*The divine program of the ages is divided into different dispensations
* The chruch and the Israel of God are two distinct groups
*The church will not pass through the great tribulation
I'm ready to defend any of the above statements from the Bible as these are true.
You spoke truth.
Amen.
It is good to see someone on here that rightly divides the Age of Grace during which the Church of Christ exists, from the Tribulation, which is for the Jews. People are VERY confused. Paul taught about the catching up, other early church leaders also taught it. Only 100 years ago did some pastors start saying it is a new thing.
It is our Blessed Hope. I do not understand how a loving God will place those who fully believe in Jesus Christ inside the worst 7 years of human history. That makes no sense. We already believe and don't need refining to start believing.
Thanks again for your comment.
Yes and it not what my pastor said pre trib rapture lines up perfectly in the Scriptures, a post trib you would have to eliminate passges of scripture, God would not allow his church his brides to go through this , many great books out there one I have showes every pre post mid future pre preterist the list is endless .
Dr Benware
In his revised book
Understanding endtimes is a great book with Scripture, encouraging all to read it or if you have it great .
Blessing
Either
Pre trib
Post trib
Mid trib
Or pan trib lol
It will all pan out
Amen.
It's a man-made doctrine and you forget that Jesus Christ was a Jew. The jews never believed in any goddamn rapture you better get your act together
This fits with my Historic Premillennial view which seems to favor the Post-trib rapture. Do Lutherans allow for the Historic Premillennial view or are they all Amillennial or Postmillennial?
Lutherans are primarily Amillennial. Only the AFLC (Association of Free Lutheran Congregations) and CLB (Church of the Lutheran Brethren) allow for other views. CLB is Premillennial, AFLC does not have a stance on this, however, they are mostly Amillennial with some historic premillennial.
I never heard of the rapture growing up. It was several years ago that I heard about it. As far as I can find is a couple of scriptures about being taken at the sound of trumpets and some people vanishing and others staying.
There are many scriptures about the rapture. I enjoy watching the channel rapture@hourlywatch. He speaks about the sun moon and star signs.
Glory be to God, he is surely coming for his bride. Stay strong and keep your faith in Christ. Grace be with you all.
Coming for his bride in a pretrib rapture, Amen brother.
@@doncleveland1245 its not a pretrib rapture but a posttrib rapture
@@christiansoldier77 It is pretrib. The 7 years is for unbelievers. Guess who believes? His Church. Guess who doesn't? People who don't think Christ dying on the cross was for them. That includes people who don't believe he is coming for them in a pretrib rapture. Unbelievers stay here, 95% of the planet. You don't want to be in that group sir, but it looks like you are.
@@doncleveland1245 The rapture is after the tribulation Jesus literally says this in Matthew 24.
@@christiansoldier77 Jesus also literally says who he is talking to in Matthew 15:24 "But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel." so you tell me if he is not sent but to Israel, who was he talking about 9 verses later?? I guess that hits a brick wall upstairs??
In my personal study in order to teach the rapture, I started having doubts for all the scriptures used for rapture really seemed to be talking about the Second Coming. Do you think the last trumpet is the same as the 7th trumpet of Revelation?
@@PsalmChapter117 first if all "trump" and "trumpet" are the same thing. Dead in Christ and alive in Christ both will be raised at the last (7th) trump(et).
I don't have any argument against the dead in Christ will rise first. It still appears to happen as a one time event at the Second coming. No discrepancy there.
@@PsalmChapter117 I don't know how this is relevant to the topic. But I do believe we are saved by faith alone. There also is a lot in the Bible about works but it's not what saves us. I'm still learning but it seems works after salvation is more about relationship and reward.
Yea, I don't take preachers' word for it. I study it for myself. Even after being a Christian for over 50 yrs I'm still learning the more I study God's Word. I believe in following the whole Word where it leads and having an intense love for the Truth. Truth lovers are always on a journey discovering God's Word more fully as we go. God Bless.
@jeanniestaller797
I actually posted this comment in reply to another comment but it is relevant to your question so I i will repeat it here:
I am a pre tribulation, dispensationalist. I am not going to debate with you or anyone else. Nothing said in this video changed my understanding. The rapture doctrine is clearly not a requirement for justification so we are free to hold differing beliefs and still be born again.
I will challenge you to be a Berean described in Acts 17:11 and question why you believe the "last trump" has anything at all to do with the trumpet judgements of Revelation. Paul was martyred in the early to mid 60's AD. The Revelation was given to John somewhere after 70 AD to 100 AD (I believe during the 90's AD). There is no indication that Paul had any knowledge of the trumpet judgements. Also, they are judgements from God on the people who are rejecting Christ. What does that have to do with God's dealings with the saints? There are some Messianic Jews who correlate the last trump to the tekiah gedolah, a long trumpet blast at the end of one of the Jewish feasts. However, what is the purpose of this last trump? And if it is the last trump it implies there was a first Trump. As the text in 1 Corinthians 15:50-58 and 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 indicate, the trump is a call of gathering for God's people. The trumpet judgements in Revelation are against the enemies of God, not His people so they cannot be seen as either the first or the last trumps. If you turn to Exodus 19:10-20, you will read that God told Moses to gather the Jews at the sound of a long and loud trumpet blast. From my study of Scripture this is the first trump gathering God's people together and corresponds to the referenced last trump which is also a calling together of God's people. In the context of Exodus 19 in verse 6 God tells them they will be a kingdom of priests, a promise which is extended to the Church in the New Testament
Apostle Paul is the one that taught about the Rapture and Apostle John confirmed it too in the book of Revelation.
I am a proudly Pre - Tribulations Rapture and sharing this BLESSED HOPE we have in Christ Jesus ❤❤❤.
Jesus likens people being "taken" to the people taken in Noahs flood
Psalms 37 says in the end the evil will disapear and no one will know where they went
I have pondered these teachings for years. I agree. The "one will be taken and the other left" verses make me recall the Passover where those left were the righteous that obeyed (blood on the lintel and doorposts) and then again when Israel was disobedient and was captured by Babylon there was a remnant left. It's the remnant that are the ones being saved and left in place, the others go to captivity or death.
The tares go first!
Matthew 13:30
30Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
Exactly, I don’t know how anyone gets around this clear explanation of the one and only harvest that takes place.
Ur using modern, lazy interpretations by manipulative and illiterate researchers in the church
The safest confession to make is, and He shall come again to judge both the living and the dead. Dispensationalism doesn't come on the scene until recent church history, as the Rev. noted.
Because Dispensationalism is artificial, an eisegesis into scripture for the purpose of making everything in Gods word neat and tidy and easy to understand...... but basically incorrect. He is the same, yesterday, today and forevermore. He has no shadow of turning at all.
Is it me or did this video repeat itself 3 times in the first 8 minutes?
I would probably disagree with a dozen or more doctrines of the Lutheran Church, but I certainly agree with the pastor here. Having said that, this is a point I’ve never heard any CZcams detractors of the rapture make. The context of 1 Corinthians 15 is the resurrection which hopefully every Bible student can agree on. Paul is teaching these early Christians about the resurrection from the dead most likely for the first time. This was a very profound revelation to them, one that we take for granted. Paul kept hammering this doctrine over and over throughout the chapter. So when he feels he’s established the doctrine as best as he can, he then adds something else. “Behold, I show you a mystery(secret), we shall not all sleep(die), but we shall all be changed…..”(1Corinthians 15:51). 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 is describing the same exact event. Here is the mystery or the secret. The mystery is that you don’t have to actually be dead to be , (not resurrected, not raised up in the air, but) Changed to Spirit composition from physical. That is the mystery. Rapture proponents try to interpret the rising from the grave as the mystery. Absolutely, positively incorrect and in context cannot be misconstrued. The Trumpet blast also destroys any credibility of this being a secret return of Christ.
Yes there are twelve mysteries of God in the Bible. Along with five Crowns 👑👑👑👑👑 to lay at Jesus feet when you get to Heaven.
Our hope is in the resurrection where we will be changed and caught away at the last trump when Christ returns.
Yes caught away, Rapture has never been used in the Bible. It is called the catching away.
@@paulinerichardson1963 Rapture / catching away. One event... different terms. The origin of the word Rapture extends from 1 Thess 4:17, which uses the Greek word harpazo, meaning "to snatch away" or "to seize".
We are not leaving this planet Jesus will build His kingdom right here on the earth, when Jesus returns He will put the fake "Satan the son of perdition " into his prison for 1000 years lots to do during them 1000 years we will be busy but remember that when Jesus returns He will put us into our spiritual bodies, that's why people believe this lie from Satan to be caught up with christ in the air the breath of life spirit air spiritual bodies.
Rebuttal of #1. I don’t believe the Rapture need be a “secret event” just a blink of an eye event.
Also, non-believers will simply dismiss the voice and trumpet as mere thunder as their ears will not recognize it!
Thats right. It's a mystery not a secret. Noone will care or know where we went. Just like Enoch. By faith he was brought on and he was deemed righteoss in the eyes of God.
Do you believe in the resurrection ? If so, what happens to the people who are alive at the time of the resurrection?
Thank you for Sharing. Refreshing to Find a True Teacher. Gotta Jet God Bless 🙏
If GOD walked with Enoch
Lift them
Even Elijah took by fire of Chariot so
Why NOT GOD will do it
How Jesus Went Up
Why not HE will not keep
His promise..
God knows what to do
And Know one kows the day and time of his Coming
This is one of the ways we know the Rapture is a true event, when people refuse to read the verse and when they act hostel about the Rapture. And they get the second coming confused with the Rapture. Really, Jesus is coming back that's all you need to know!!!
Yes, Jesus is coming back..true..but we need to be doing what he commanded..which takes accurate knowledge of scriptures...
And if you have accurate knowledge you will understand that the scriptures in 1Thess..is for those that will be co-ruler with Christ..when the time comes.
We can read this and apply what Jesus repeatedly tell his disciples..about their being heirs to the thrones..at the last supper, after the Rich man and in the Garden before he was taken...and other places.
This group is numbered as the 144,000..in revation..and also called the little flock ,by Jesus in Luke.
All other righteous followers will still be here..awaiting Gods kingdom...
Why do you keep using the word secret lol no said secret rapture , we said rapture.
Great logic. 🤦♂
Quire right !
No, we need to know about the tribulation, or Jesus and Paul wouldn't have talked about it so much, NOR would John dedicate an entire book of the Bible to it. The last one, no less.
Where does a "secret" rapture come from? I do not read it in the text.
Because it's not there. It's made up by the pre-tribbers, as it's clear Christ's coming is at the end, AFTER the Tribulation. So they had to invent a secret rapture that takes place before the very public and loud announcement via a Shout and Trumpet Blast at Christs return.
OF course that STILL doesn't help them out, because Paul in 1 Thes 4:16-17 plainly stated the Lord comes with the shout of the angel and the blast of the trumpet and the dead in Chris will rise FIRST, THEN we who are alive and remain will be caught up.
THAT is the rapture verse and it clearly ties it to the second coming of Christ with the trumpet blast and shout. So clearly NOT a silent rapture.
Also Rev 20:4-5 clearly states the FIRST resurrection includes those who refused to worship the beast or take his mark.
Since the rapture takes place AFTER a resurrection, it can't take place BEFORE the FIRST one. Since the FIRST resurrection includes those killed by the beast, then it's impossible for the rapture to take place before the saints are martyred by the beast in the Tribulation.
There's another reason. If it sounds too good to be true it probably is. The rapture refered to Once by Paul, is referring to the resurrection of the dead timing , at the Last Day.People thought it had already happened and they missed it. He is saying it hasn't come yet because those who are still living will also be transformed in an instant at that time.
Paul never spoke of a rapture never.
Who, what group of people said that the rapture would be in secret? My pentecostal background says that Every eye will see.
There’s no end of the world when the rapture comes. Read 1Thessalonians 4 v 15 to 18 which clearly shows that we will be caught up
Great analysis. Thanks
Great and straight to the point.
Thank you for not being sarcastic toward those of us that firmly hold to the Biblical teaching of the pre tribulation return of Christ for his Bride. It was refreshing to hear your side without the common biting sarcasm. Thank you.
Surely God will not let all KIDS because of their Parents that are not Christians GO TO HELL , there are over 200 million children under 7 years ,just here in Europe and China, THEY CAN'T DECIDE (MARK OF THE BEAST) FOR THEMSELVES, now 90% in both respective places are not Christians and the 10% ,5% are serious Catholics and still pray to Mary ,leaving the other 5% , so If They Are TO GO THROUGH TRIBULATION, THAT MEANS AUTOMATICALLY THOSE MAJORITY OF CHILDREN with parents who are not Christians will be FORCED TO RECEIVE MARK OF THE BEAST (MILLIONS OF THEM), if that's true then I dont know the meaning of this bible scripture "
**19:14 But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.19:15 And he laid his hands on them, and departed thence. Matthew 19v 14.
The only mystery to let them escape is Rapture. Read also Parable of the 10 Virgins, gives a clear picture of RAPTURE, It doesn't say it's for RAPTURE but that's also why it's a PARABLE.
If its description is for second coming after the TRIBULATION I dont think there will be people coming and knocking at the door when they realise that they are left behind, simply because all the remaining people non Christians will have mark of the beast hence AUTOMATICALLY, have devil's DNA ,
Well I know it's so hard for post TRIBULATION believers to admit the truth about Rapture because most of them will realise they have been falsely teaching people and failed to understand the MYSTERY all this time ,and it's hard for them to go back and remove videos they made supporting post trib and making Believers to wait for antichrist first instead of Jesus,
Anyway I pray that the Holy Spirit help us all, we are all Believers and children of God, whether by Rapture or TRIBULATION, let us prepare to meet our Lord Jesus, if he doesn't snatch us ,we still are ready to die for him , But post TRIBULATION believers are wrong ,you are at a huge LoST because the day will catch you Unawares.
@@MichaelBlessing191 the great tribulation was the fall of Jerusalem in AD 70 as referenced by Christ in Mathew 24...surely all these things will be fulfilled in this generation. So in this world we will have tribulation, but not the great tribulation. The parable of the wise virgins is in the second half of the Olivet discourse...once again not referencing our time. Written to the Jews that had the choice to receive Jesus in that 40 year period(a generation) after Christ gave his discourse in the mount of olives. We see a pattern of Israel in the wilderness and not entering because of their unbelief. They had a 40 year transition period from old covenant to new covenant. Oil is an Old Testament shadow of Holy Spirit. The mosaic system was judged in AD 70 and those who heeded Christ’s warnings (when you see the army surrounding Jerusalem, flee! And know that the desolation is at hand) were saved. Hope this helps.
@@joshuaraleigh4834, yes! Yeshua was the New Covenant. Check out Gary Demar’s book Last Days Madness.
The foolish argument that the Rapture will be a secret is repeated by the ignorant.
@@jayveebee1076 I would never call my brothers and sisters in Christ "ignorant".
Revelation 3:10
ESV
Because you have kept my word about patient endurance, I will keep you from the hour of trial that is coming on the whole world, to try those who dwell on the earth. The hour is the great tribulation period.
Exactly!
That is one interpretation ....it is possible that the hour is referring to the seven day or year period, but there is no reason to believe that "keep you" means take you out of this world. When shepards keep their sheep they are not removing them, rather they are watching after them and protecting them while they are still in this world.
Let see what happens. The scripture tell us to workout our salvation with fear and trembling, meaning workout our relationship with Christ. Best to ask the Lord if there is something he wants you and I to repent of and renounce in Jesus name???
Concerning the rapture or not, best to ask the Lord who lives in and dwell with us, what is true or not true ??
Revelation 3 11 the only way a man can take your crown is if you give it up
Persecution coming. Keep the faith
The note worthy part came about in 2015 to 2018 by which time the important bit was finished for those investigating, it is still going on at a low level. There is nothing that I can say that will bring it to you but if you get it then yes you are permanently changed your friend could get exactly the same info and " not get it " . Next year the end of the cycle starts , as a new one begins but we know now what is meant.
Great video!!! I think many are commenting in defense of their pre-trib rapture ideology without actually watching the whole video & considering how looking deeper into context conflicts with what they've been taught.
The reference to the Jedi is great!
Many of the ideas in Star War movies are derived from the bible and cannot be referenced the other way round. LOL
Which film does the scene he referred to happen in ?
The understanding of the rapture starts with understanding dispensation Paul talks about it
JESUS tells us it's like a thief in the night. 5 wise believed in a pre-trib secret Rapture 5 foolish thought HE tary.
JESUS said the dispensation of "the Time of the Gentiles be fulfilled" then Jerusalem will be anexed back to Israel post secret Rapture; Lk. 21:24
@@rickhuntling7338 Except it isnt a secret rapture because the 5 foolish virgins know that the lord has arrived, but are left out. Unbelievers will see the resurrection because it happens when christ returns to earth.
@@wallinggraham3836 lets talk arter you learn to read instead of making stuff up. The 5 foolish believe HE tary and leave to buy more oil. In other words the foolish are post trib fools like yourself.
The good man is another post trib fool who doesn't watch for the thief in the night. He wakes and find his innocent kids gone with his wise pre trib wife.
Rev. 6:11 wise virgins at the altar receiving wedding garments. They have to wait fot the Day of the LORD a little season while still more on earth are beheaded. That be you foolish virgin. Did you get your oil?
Rev. 12:4 holocaust anf birth of a Nation May 15th 1948 the tender branch puts forth leaves, This generation is still alive in their 70s.
Rev. 12:5 Harpazo of men like children are taken up to his throne. Verse 12 we have a party but woe to the inhabitants on earth the devil knows he only has 7 years.
You can't get a post trib out of Isa. 26:19-21. The dead rise, we goto HIM hid in "many mansions" Jn.14:1-3 while the indignation passes. HE leaves HIS place to judge the inhabitants still on earth. That's when they see him. Guess what we got HIS back; Jude 14, Zech. 14:15.
2nd Thess.2;3 "the DEPARTURE comes first". Verse 7 the "mystery" of the Church is taken out so the antichrist can be revealed.
The Lutheran pastor kept using the phrase "secret rapture". I never heard rapture believers call it a "secret". Can anyone explain that for me?
"Thief in the night" is Jewish wedding language and so is "only the father knows the day and hour for the son to go get the bride and bring her back to the father's house. In the middle of the night the Groom would snatch her away secretly. There is a secret Rapture different than a second coming where every eye will see. This comes the moment after the "Time of the Gentiles be fulfilled; Lk. 21:24.
The Jewish wedding idea you referenced was made up out of whole cloth.
No tradition ever existed like that and you will not find anything of the sort in the Bible
It's what the pre-tribbers have to rely on, as ALL the verses about Christ's second coming, clearly indicate it's AFTER the tribulation. So, in order to have the rapture take place BEFORE the tribulation, you have to disconnect it from Christ's glorious, triumphant returns which comes with a shout and a trumpet blast. Hence the secret or silent rapture.
Of course, this if flat out contradicted by Paul who says in 1 Thess 4:16-17 the dead in Christ will rise FIRST, THEN we who are alive and remain will be caught up, oh and it also says it's with a shout and the blast of a trumpet.
Rev 20:4-5 is the nail in the coffin to the pre-trib heresy. It plainly states the FIRST resurrection includes those beheaded for Christ's testimony and those who refused the worship the beast or take his mark.
Now if the rapture takes place AFTER a resurrection, it can't happen BEFORE the FIRST resurrection, by definition. Since the FIRST resurrection includes those killed by the beast, it's axiomatic that the rapture can't take place BEFORE the tribulation and the martyrdom of the saints.
@@cryptojihadi265 then you're a foolish virgin and believe HE tarry. I believe he doesn't tarry. You'll find the door shut for not believing HE comes like a thief in the night.
Rev.6:11 I'm getting wedding robes; you're having your head is cut off.
We have to understand that when it talks about going into the air it's not referring to getting out of the tribulation because the Bible consistently says endure until it's over.
We go into the clouds to be a part of the Lord's army not to disappear forever
Proverbs 10:30-The righteous shall never be removed: but the wicked shall not inhabit the earth.
there it is 🎯
The old testament prophets were not informed and did not have any knowledge of the mystery of the Body of Christ, it is in Ephesians. God had to take Paul out in the desert for 3 years to teach him about the mystery of the church. All the Jews knew that there was a ressurection at the end. (Daniel) Their will be old testament saints who will have to wait until the end of the 1000 year reign for their resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that has part in the first resurrection,
1Thessalonians 4:16, 17
For the Lord himself will descend from Heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first :
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air : and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
This scripture is for the 144, 000..not for all believers.
They are to rule as Kings with Jesus..and first fight with him at Armageddon.
The dead in Christ are those bought from the earth..to do as I said..Paul is one of them and
So were most first century Christians..
Read your bibles..let the holy spirit through God help you.
@Charles Pieters ooh there are plenty of scriptures to back this..
First of all ..the dead are dead..they dont go to heaven..but are dust..that's in Gen..and Eccl..ch.9:5,10.
All [both humans and animals] are going to one place. They have all come to be from the dust, and they are all returning to the dust.”-Ecclesiastes 3:20.
“The dead . . . are conscious of nothing at all.”-Ecclesiastes 9:5.
“Their love and their hate and their jealousy have already perished.”-Ecclesiastes 9:6.
“There is no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in Sheol [the grave], the place to which you are going.”-Ecclesiastes 9:10.
“[Man] goes back to his ground; in that day his thoughts do perish.”-Psalm 146:4.
Not to mention the countless promises of life on earth in a paradise..(if you want those scriptures, also let me know)
Thus, not all good people go to heaven. About good King David, the apostle Peter plainly said: “David did not ascend to the heavens.” (Acts 2:34) John the Baptist was a good man. Yet, Jesus indicated that he would not be exalted to rule as a king in heaven. “Among those born of women,” Jesus said, “there has not been raised up a greater than John the Baptist; but a person that is a lesser one in the kingdom of the heavens is greater than he is.”-Matthew 11:11.
There will be those that do go to heaven..a little flock, of specially chosen..to rule as kings with Jesus..during his 1000 yr reign..
AFTER Jesus’ final meal with his apostles on the evening before his execution, Jesus promised to reward them with a place in heaven. He said: “In the house of my Father there are many abodes. Otherwise, I would have told you, because I am going my way to prepare a place for you.” (John 14:2) Why would Jesus provide them a place in heaven? What will they do there?
Jesus had in mind a special assignment for his disciples. During that same evening, he said: “You are the ones that have stuck with me in my trials; and I make a covenant with you, just as my Father has made a covenant with me, for a kingdom.” (Luke 22:28, 29) God had promised Jesus that he would be the King who would provide for one of mankind’s greatest needs-good government. Jesus will save people from affliction and will crush those defrauding them. Although Jesus will have subjects extending “to the ends of the earth,” his throne will be in heaven.-Psalm 72:4, 8; Daniel 7:13, 14.
However, Jesus will not rule alone. Hence, he promised his apostles a place in heaven. They were the first ones chosen to “rule as kings over the earth.”-Revelation 5:10.
How many go to heaven? As in any government, the rulers in God’s heavenly Kingdom are few in comparison with all the people who live under its authority. To those who will rule with him, Jesus said: “Have no fear, little flock, because your Father has approved of giving you the kingdom.” (Luke 12:32) That “little flock” will finally number 144,000. (Revelation 14:1) That number is small in comparison with the millions who will enjoy endless life on earth as loyal subjects of the Kingdom.-Revelation 21:4.
There are many more to support this..but I suspect. .citing them all..won't do any good..unless you really want the truth..then let me know I would be happy to share.
And none are in heaven as of yet...that is what the rapture is for...those that are dead will be called, then the very few that are left on earth still alive ..will be caught up with him. That's the meaning of 2 Thess.
Most of these anointed ones were first century Christians. .and included as mentioned the apostles.
There are a few left..and they are doing exactly what they should..
What can be said about the anointed Christians in modern times? In his prophecy about “the sign of [his] presence and of the conclusion of the system of things,” Jesus referred to the composite body of his spirit-anointed followers on earth as “the faithful and discreet slave,” or “the faithful steward.” (Matt. 24:3, 45; Luke 12:42) As a group, the slave class has established an excellent record of “following the Lamb no matter where he goes.” (Read Revelation 14:4, 5.) Its members remain virgins in a spiritual sense by not defiling themselves with the beliefs and practices of “Babylon the Great,” the world empire of false religion. (Rev. 17:5) No doctrinal falsehood is “found in their mouths,” and they remain “without blemish” from Satan’s world. (John 15:19) In the future, the remaining anointed ones on earth “will follow” the Lamb right into heaven.-John 13:36.
I know this is not commonly taught. .but it is the bible's truth..
@Charles Pieters Maybe you should re-read the above..Its clear they are not in heaven yet so none..(Jesus so far is the only one ascended to heaven, when he calls the rest will go, first the 144,000, then after everyone else will be resurrected)not until the first resurrection happens..
anointed members of “the Israel of God” must join the Lord Jesus Christ in heavenly glory, where they will “always be with the Lord.” (Galatians 6:16;1 Thessalonians 4:17) That event is called “the earlier resurrection” or “the first resurrection.” (Philippians 3:10, 11; Revelation 20:6)
This is also why many believe in the rapture..
It's not for anyone BUT the 144,000..and most like said before have already died..they are awaiting untikl the time..waiting in the grave..asleep in death.
Eph 1 :13,14
Read 1 thess 4:13-18..
Moreover, brothers, we do not want you to be ignorant about those who are sleeping in death, so that you may not sorrow as the rest do who have no hope. 14 For if we have faith that Jesus died and rose again, so too God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep in death through Jesus. 15 For this is what we tell you by Gods word, that we the living who survive to the presence of the Lord will in no way precede those who have fallen asleep in death; 16 because the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice and with God’s trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first.17 Afterward we the living who are surviving will, together with them, be caught away in clouds to meet the Lordin the air; and thus we will always be with the Lord.18 So keep comforting one another with these words.
This is when the anointed co-rulers with Jesus will take their heavenly calling.
But before that they are like everyone else..asleep in the grave.
We dont know exactly when this will happen, but it will be soon..because we also know they will fight with Christ at Armageddon for Gods spiritual Israel..(not the nation)
@Charles Pieters I dont know what new generation JW is..
Where in the bible is that?
Anyway..,this was after the earthquake(matt 27)..Or “they who came out.” The Greek verb indicates a plural masculine subject referring to people, not to the bodies (neuter in Greek) mentioned in verse 52. This evidently refers to passersby, who saw the dead bodies exposed by the earthquake (vs. 51) and who entered the city and reported what they had seen.
Sometimes it's best to go to the original language of the text to get a understanding..
As the translations are not perfect..and dont transfer over real great..to english.
You have to consider the context , the language of the time and the customs, and speach.
It has taken me years of intense study..prayer, and sleepless nights..to get an accurate knowledge of God, and his son..through the bible..which by the way..explains itself ..very nicely.
Most of what the so called Christain religions teach..is wrong..Satans biggest tool is false teachings..it keeps many blinded to the real truth.
You have to let the bible teach you..not men..doing so opens up your heart( childlike and humble) to allow Gods word the bible to do what's it's designed to do..teach!
Every thing in the bible is there to do that..every scripture has a purpose. .and it all works in harmony..100% harmony.
Regarding the passage in Luke, it's not just here where left behind refers to the saints. It's consistent throughout scripture. The remnants is always the ones that pass through the test and are spared from the wrath of god. Those who remain, those who passed through the trials and the judgment, they are blessed. In order to read Luke as if left behind or being a remnant is somehow bad we must ignore every other passage in Scripture that deals with this kind of language. Being left behind in scripture is never bad. The remnant is always good.
Thanks for this video. What do you think will happen, and when (not an exact date). Thankfully, this is interesting but not a salvation issue. I grew up in the episcopal church, and had never heard (even though it’s mentioned in the liturgy) that Jesus will come back to reign on earth. I thought that if I was a “good person”, hopefully I’d go to heaven. Thank God I heard about the rapture! I was immediately struck like lightning, & after prayer I realized that I’m a watchwoman on the wall; I get great joy from the hope that Jesus might pull us out of here any day. The Bible seems to be purposely ambiguous, and it will roll out according to God’s will, perfectly. We may face persecution & death, as the apostles did. The Jews missed Jesus because they interpreted scripture incorrectly or had preconceived notions of what it would be like. Perhaps it will be different than we all imagine . (Also, my husband is a Lutheran, but Martin Luther taught replacement theology, so that is suspect too!). Peace, & praying for salvation for all. That’s the most important thing!
I am ready to go home!!!!
Regardless we get raptured or resurrected from our dead bodies it is all about John 3:16 and John 14:6, period. However there are solid cases proving The rapture and the second coming of Jesus are two distinct events. I want to share my video czcams.com/video/mQLucXkZAVE/video.html
Thank you Dr Cooper. Much appreciated the efforts you put into this. May God bless you and all yours.
The pre trib rapture view is the most viable view when you have the entirety of texts in view.
Exp. How could the good man in Matt 24:43-44 be admonition to be ready for his return at an hour you think not after Jesus just told them the temple was going to he destroyed and them it would be rebuild before he returns unless he is referring to two different events
@@carlcizek1611 AMEN
This is a very informative presentation.
I am glad that, after so many years of mis-reading, mis-use and mis-application of Biblical texts and scripture verses; educated and clear-minded authorities are debunking the decades of false ideas about end times and culmination of the ages.
I grew up Methodist (Wesleyan) and later became a Presbyterian (Reformed theology). Never heard or knew a "flying flip" about a so-called "pre-tribulation Rapture" until I became associated with a Southern Baptist congregation in the late Seventies and very early Eighties. Despite hours and hours of reading the Bible and "searching the scriptures", I could find little to nothing that supported and substantiated what was being preached in the pulpit.
[This was at a time when "end times speculation books" (Hal Lindsey, et. al.) were proliferating in sales.
The rapture I think is a giant misunderstanding of the 2nd exodus found all over the Bible. And there is TONS of evidence for a 2nd, greater, Exodus that will be led by Jesus instead of Moses where all true believers will return to the Promised Land, not from Egypt but from the entire earth, even from the farthest shore! . In the Bible there is this repeating theme where God tells a person or a group of people to leave some place and come back to the Promised Land. Here is a list of scriptures that touch on this theme, especially the 2nd, greater Exodus. There is ONE people, ONE covenant, ONE Messiah, ONE Law for all:
Genesis 15:7, 17:8, 29:1-12, 50:24-25
Exodus 6:6-8, 19:3-8, 20:2, 29:45-46, 32:11,
Leviticus 19:36, 25:38, 26:33,
Deuteronomy 4:27, 7:6-11, 28:64, 29:28, 30:1-20
2Samuel 7:22-24,
1Kings 8:46-61, 9:1-9,
1Chronicles 16:23-24, 31-36
Nehemiah 1:5-11
Psalm 44:11, 106:47, 107:2-3, 147:2
Isaiah 11:10-16, 14:1, 40:10-11, 41:8-10, 43:5-7, 49:5- 54:1-17, 55:5, 56:8 (3 times in 1 verse!)
Jeremiah 3:14, 12:15, 16:10-21, 23:1-8, 24:4-7, 30:1-24, 31:1-40, 32:36-44, 49:32-36, 50:4-8, 17-20
Ezekiel 5:2-4, 10, 12, 6:8-10, 11:13-21, 20:23-24, 22:15, 28:25-26, 34:11-31, 36:16-38, 37:1-28, 38:1-12, 39:21-29
Hosea 1:1-11,
Amos 9:7-15
Micah 2:12-13, 4:1-8, 5:3
Zephaniah 3:9-20,
Zechariah 8:1-23, 10:1-12
Matthew 3:12, 12:30, 13:30, 24:31, 25:26, 25:31-32
Matthew 23:37
Mark 13:27
Luke 3:17
John 4:36, 6:12, 10:1-18 esp. v. 16, 11:52, 12:32, 15:6
Acts 15:7-9 (Jews and Gentiles treated the same by YHVH according to Ez37)
1Thessalonians 4:16-17
Peter 2:9-11
Revelation 17:14, 21:3
I am leaving!!!!’
I see there is a fixed version of this video...after watching it I agree there is much to be fixed!
I have never heard a preacher call the rapture secret or silent. Paul tells us it will come with a trumpet blast and a shout. In other words, it is going to be noisy.
To find the rapture, is very simple: Read 1 Thes. 4:17. Why would anyone deny what is so clearly written? Not only did Paul write of the rapture, where Jesus will come only to the air, but Paul also told us when. Just three verses after his classical rapture verse, 4:17, Paul wrote of the Day of the Lord. Then shortly after that, Paul wrote of the wrath of God. Why would God cause Paul to write of the Day of the Lord and of the wrath of God just a few verses after Jesus comes and catches up the church? It is because the Day of the Lord will come right after the rapture. Some authors have written that these will be back-to-back events: "time" will instantly change from church age to the Day of the Lord.
Where is this found in John's timeline in Revelation? The wrath of God will begin with the Day of His wrath, which will begin with the opening of the 6th seal. Since the 70th Week of Daniel will begin at the opening of the 7th seal, we can know that the rapture will, indeed, be pre-tribulation. Why anyone cannot believe what is so clearly written, amazes me.
As a "clincher," so to speak, John then saw the just-raptured church and wrote of it as the great crowd, too large to number, in Revelation 7. Again, the "Tribulation" will not begin until Revelation chapter 8.
In ancient times when the king was returning from war. A trumpet will sound and the people of the city will come out of the city walls to greet the king out side of the city. They then will escort ( follow ) the king back into the city We will met Jesus outside of the city ( the earth ) and follow the King ( Jesus ) back into the city ( earth )
Recently in conversation with an acquaintance I casually mentioned (in context) there was no such thing as the rapture. By his reaction you would have thought I had shot his mother. Deeply entrenched beliefs are not easily dismantled in most. I applaud you for trying.
@Loenthall88 There is a rapture just not a pretrib secret rapture. The rapture happens after the tribulation
@christiansoldier77 Not unless Christ comes to reign a thousand years first.
@@eltonron1558 the millennium is after the rapture and wrath of God
Thank you! Finally, someone with some COMMON SENSE!!! Nowhere in the Bible is there a secret rapture, as taught by so many evangelical churches. I call them "parrots" because they just repeat what's been taught since it's inception in the 1830s. The Scriptures are never seriously examined and proper exegesis applied! (Are you listening Dr. David Jeremiah?)
Could you possibly be wrong ? Why would Jesus pour out his wrath on his Bride, the Church ?
Wonderful insight. I’ve long wondered why this doctrine has any traction after reading the Word… but it’s not a salvation issue but it’s good to have clarity on facets of scripture.
What does Paul mean when he says, I tell you a mystery, we shall not all sleep--Corinthians
Thank you. I was born again as a teenager and had always gone to Church's that taught a pretrib Rapture. I never questioned it because it was coming from the pulpit. One day I was alone at home reading 2 Thessalonians, and even though I had read this passage many times, this particular day I was given a clear understanding. I became a Berean at that very moment and also began to listen to Pastors online who explained as you do that the Pretrib Rapture theory is not found in scripture, and also explained the origins of it. I felt so strongly about not sitting under false teaching that I eventually stopped going to my Evangelical Church. I tried a Baptist Church and discovered that they believed in the Pretrib Rapture as well. I have been searching for so long for a Church that doesn't teach that false Docterine. I never knew that Lutheran believe in a post tribulation Rapture as I do. So thank you. It is nearly impossible to find a Church that does not believe in and teach the Pretrib Rapture theory. Mabie I am a Lutheran.
Catholics don’t reach the rapture.
There are others that don't teach the pretrib rapture theory and some believe in keeping all ten of the commandments. Most denominations don't. Idk about Lutheran.
So much to disassemble from your small post, but allow me to address just a few things...
The "ORIGINS" of the position are grounded in the closed canon, *NOT* in s/one that those who oppose the position like to point to with their opposition. The ARGUMENT is not about when s/thing became POPULAR, & if it WERE, we'd need to toss out justification by faith that didn't really surface till the Reformation, & other major teachings that are found in the Word. Think about it...
Wasn't *GOLD* in _them thar hills_ prior to James Marshall coming up on it in *Jan 1848* out in California? You see, truth is DISCOVERED, not invented, & this "argument" carries NO weight. Now, to you reading *II Thess* and coming to some realization about things...
There's several chapters in the book so I won't take a stab on guessing just what portion brought you to a different u/standing for fear you weren't SPEAKING about that particular text, so just what text caused you to capitulate if I may ask? I'll be glad to use any of the passages to bring a *S O L I D* case for the pre-tribulation rapture, for I fear you've drawn the wrong conclusion as to just what the text teaches.
All the best to you in your search for truth, *MARANATHA!*
Catholic Church does not teach that either.
Wow. What a poor reason to switch churches.
The rapture is real anyway. Enjoy it.
There is a problem with the video repeating at one point. I will fix ASAP. Sorry.
A fixed version is here: czcams.com/video/IvF5GKEZw0k/video.html
There's another problem, you're wrong about the rapture. Study your Bible more and ask God to open your eyes
@@truthmattersjesusiscoming6460 You are wrong bro, you study your Bible. The Rapture is foreign to Judaism.
@@Nicholas-Michael
So is Jesus foreign to Judaism. There is no problem with the Rapture or with Jesus the problem is in your head.
@@frankmeintjes5012 No the problem is with your head. You are going to insult me like that? The Rapture is unbliblical. It takes a real moron to believe otherwise. Something must be wrong with your head.
I just have to ask this because i dont get it AT ALL for any denomination. Why do people name their belief after other men?
I meant to say that we're not to add or take away from the Bible or bear false doctrine.
The Rapture is spoke about in 1 Thessalonians chapter 4. The words caught up refers to the Rapture. In 2 Thessalonians chapter 2, that refers to the 2nd Coming of Christ at the end of the Tribulation. It's biblical, not traditional. Paul preached about this, centuries ago. The Rapture is for the church age. If you are born again I will see you in glory! My belief is based on the Word of God, not some movie.
1Thes 2 says nothing about caught up before a tribulation. In fact, it says, "we who are alive and remain until the COMING OF THE LORD,..." So, we are clearly caught up with the Lord at His 2nd coming, not 7 years before.
@jimwest5027 1 Thessalonians 4:14 -18. it's talking here that those who are asleep (have died) will rise before those who remain alive. this is one event. remember the 2nd Coming of Christ has judgment. there is no judgment in the Rapture. the judgment starts in the second half of the Tribulation followed by a battle, Satan loses and is locked up for 1000 years. this is the Millennia Reign of Christ.
You need to read the Bible as it’s written and not change it to suit your position.
Would you please repeat that a few more times. Thanks.
Thanks I'm not Lutheran, I'm just Christian, however I have believed exactly what you said for a long time now. I prayed the Lord would teach me as I was fed up with all the confusion man's teachings gave me. This was the 1st thing He showed me. Thank you
The best explanatory power I've seen for understanding proper Eschatology is Preterism, our playlist has great music, and a few shorts linking you to some good videos, including RC Sproul's series on Preterism. God-bless
I am rapture ready! Come Lord Jesus !
How do you know if your rapture ready?? I love Jesus and I'm ready for him, but I don't know what rapture is
there is no rapture
Then you’ll be waiting for a long time.
@@bullwinklejmoos says who?
Where is the rapture in the Bible?
Should we then remove those scriptures, from the Bible, that say, "16,17 the dead in Christ shall rise first then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air? - And what about, "51 We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed?"
[1st Thess. 4:16 - 18] - [1st Cor. 15:50 - 58]
Also, should we then remove the Ten Commandments because we are no longer under the Law but under Grace? Do women wear head coverings at your Lutheran church? And the Bible says a woman should have her head covered, no?
"But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and ..... "
(teaching not to enter the Ark?)
The 55-75 years Noah was building the Ark, didn't the people mock Noah all those years? What do you think is comparable to today?
Enjoyed your teaching on the Rapture.
I interpret the Luke passages on Noah and Lot in the exact opposite scenario. In both instances God’s elect are removed and God’s wrath is released on those left behind. This also comports with the description of the end as given in Matthew 24 and Revelation 6. Both Jesus and John describe the cosmic disturbance at Jesus’s coming. Jesus says that the elect will be taken up to meet Him in the sky; John tells us that those left behind will immediately experience theWrath of the Lamb. This is not a secret rapture. Both those who are raptured and those left behind will know exactly what has happened.
Where in Luke? Jesus likens the people taken without notice with Lots wife in Luke 17. I don’t think Lots wife was the elect.
@@Scottie_B in both the flood of Noah and the fire and brimstone at Sodom, God removed His elect (Noah’s family and Lot’s family from the area before releasing His wrath on those left behind in their sinful worlds.
@@sueregan2782 but when the judgement was complete who remained? Why would Jesus say remember Lots wife and then start speaking about who remains and who doesn’t? Read 2 Peter 3 v13. Either way I bless you, it’s all about Jesus for me and I’m sure it if for you too. Bless you.
In Matthew 24:40, 41, the Greek word for "taken" is paralambano, which means to draw something or someone close to you in intimacy; to be closely associated. The Greek word for "Left" in that passage is "aphiemi", which means to forsake, abandon or send away. The word is sometimes translated, divorce. It's pretty easy to see who is taken. Jesus is "taking" a wife!
@@sueregan2782
Isa. 26:19 the dead are Resurrected from the dust.
Isa. 26:20 we goto HIM, HE hides us in manny mansions for a while and the indignation passes.
Isa. 26:21 HE leaves HIS place in Heaven to judge the inhabitants of the world.
Question to you, are you of this world?
Jude 14, Zech. 14:15 HE brings the saints with HIM.
The Lord will have a tried and a tested people. How can we fully prove our loyalty to the Lord if we are not here DURING tribulation? That is what will refine us into the men and women he wants us to become. It will be our opportunity to PROVE ourselves faithful to the lord even during the worst of times.
Well said. Tribulation means time of testing. Those who hold fast to God during this terrible time will shine so very brightly bring many to God. Bless you
Can you explain thess 4. Are you saying you know more than scolfield ? So you actually beliwve in the bibke ? You are mixing different events. Do you also beleove gay lifestyle is ok?
I forgot to ask you to do a video with the other Rapture texts because, being here in South Carolina, I need all the help I can get trying to explain why this doctrine is new and non-Scriptural unless you read a lot of not present ideas and assumptions into these passage! God bless!
Grace And Peace, Joseph, my friend, and, I have "plenty of Departure Texts" in "link" at the end, IF you wish. Here are a "few" of *Them! Please Be Very RICHLY Blessed!:*
------------------------------
----------------------- *Great GRACE Departure!* {aka rapture}
"Outline!":
*"Do ALL things Decently And In ORDER!!" (1 Corinthians 14 : 40 KJB!)*
-
*(1A) PEACE With God! "Receiving" The Holy Spirit For "understanding"?*
*(1B) 1A "E - X - P - A - N - D - E - D" FOR "Clarification"?*
*(2a) Which BIBLE: KJB!* or, Any "newer modern version" will suffice?
*(2b) KJB And God's Excellent "study" Rules!?*
------------------------------------------------------------------
Part 3a *Pre-TOJT Great GRACE Departure!:*
- *Rightly Divided* - "Brief" Intro!
-
"Prophecy/Law" {earthly} gospel of the kingdom, ISRAEL "Prominent!"
-
*Rightly Divided ( 2 Timothy 2 : 15! ) From **_"Things That DIFFER":_*
-
*"Mystery/GRACE!" {Heavenly!} Gospel Of GRACE, Jew **_And_** Gentile "Equal!"*
-----------------------------------------------
*(3b) THREE "Ages" Rightly Divided! = God's TIMELINES?*
*(4) Which "Gospel!" **_Makes Way_** For Which "Gospel"?*
*(5) GREAT Tribulation? Or *tribulations/GREAT GRACE Departure!:**
*(6) Pre-TOJT GRACE Departure "Expectations!"?*
*(7) God's HEAVENLY UPlook For HIS Body!?*
*(8) Watching, Waiting, And Looking for WHOM!* or, "signs"?
*(9) He "who withholdeth/hindereth" Until "taken Out!?"*
*(10) "Day Of CHRIST!" Rightly Divided from {RDf}:*
- *"The Day Of The LORD"?*
*(11) CONFIDENCE in death/resurrection!, OR, in living/glorification!!?*
*(12) CHRIST Will RETURN **_"Without Warning!"?_*
*(13)The TWO "Trumps" Of God!, In HIS "Age Of GRACE!!"?*
*(14) Meeting HIM "In The Air!" to Heaven!!* vs U-turn (theology???)
- _Back To earth?_
*(15) Preparation For Judgment!?*
*(16) Post Departure "Deception! Question"?*
-
Conclusion!:
*(17) **_Distinctions_** Between: The "Mystery" Pre-TOJT GRACE Departure! {RDf}*
- *The "Prophesied" Second Coming?*
- *{RDf = "Rightly Divided from" (2 Timothy 2 : 15 KJB!)}:*
Part 17(C):
The SECOND Coming, According to “Earthly _Prophecy:”_
-
(4) Immediately _After_ tribulation/4 "signs," CHRIST Is Coming To “earth” In Order To:
Judge/Make war/Smite And Rule the nations… *(Matthew 24 : 29;* Revelation 19 : 11, 15)
-
(5a) Angels “gather the tares” First And they are “taken Out” of the “kingdom”
to be cast into the furnace of fire! *(Matthew 24 : 30, 13 : 30, 40-43!)*
-
(5b) Angels “gather the elect”... *(Matthew 24 : 31;* Mark 13 : 27!)
-
(6)...for the “judgment of the Earthly Nations” By The Son of man, The King!
(Matthew 25 : 31-46!)
-
(7) Those Judged as "righteous" then "enter the kingdom!" And the "UNrighteous" then
"Depart into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels!" (Matthew 25 : 34-46!)
-
*Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2 : 15!) From **_"Things That DIFFER":_*
-
*The Great GRACE Departure, According to The “Heavenly **_MYSTERY!”:_*
-
*(4) CHRIST Will Resurrect those “asleep” first, and Then, we “which are alive and*
*remain,” {which Is A MYSTERY!}, will be “changed”/all “incorruptible,”*
*And “Caught Up” together to meet The LORD in the air, in the*
*“twinkling of an eye!”*
*(1 Thessalonians 4 : 16-17; 1 Corinthians 15 : 52-53!)*
-
*(5) CHRIST “Gathers HIS Body” To HIMSELF to Take them To Heaven...*
*(2 Thessalonians 2 : 1-3; 1 Corinthians 15 : 49;*
*2 Corinthians 12 : 2, 5 : 1, 2;*
*Ephesians 1 : 3, 20, 2 : 6; Philippians 3 : 20; 2 Timothy 4 : 18!)*
-
*6)...For The Judgment Seat Of CHRIST, For HIS Heavenly Body, By*
*The Head HIMSELF! (Romans 2 : 6, 16, 14 : 10-12;*
*1 Corinthians 3 : 8-15, 4 : 5, 6 : 20; 2 Corinthians 5 : 10;*
*Ephesians 6 : 8; Colossians 3 : 24-25!)*
-
*(7a) After Judgment, the GRACE **_assembly_** Is Then "Presented" as*
*"A Glorious Church, To CHRIST HIMSELF!"... (Ephesians 5 : 27!)*
-
*(7b) ...And, Then "CHRIST Will Present" HIS Body "holy and unblameable*
*and unreproveable, In HIS Sight," To HIS Father, In Heaven, Where*
- we *Live Forever And EVER!! Amen!*
- *(2 Thessalonians 3 : 13; Colossians 1 : 5, 22;*
- *1 Corinthians 6 : 3; 2 Corinthians 5 : 1-2 KJB!)*
-
*God Bless All!*
-
*Rapture_Handout_Complete **_Excellent_** PDF!:*
www.crbible.com/zupload/user/site-files/rapture-handout-complete.pdf ---------------------------------------------------------------
*LORD JESUS, thank You so much for Your Gift Of ETERNAL*
*Salvation, And for Your "Blessed Hope" of Glorification When*
*You Come To Finally Gather us Home!* Amen.
---------------------------------------------------------
*Please Be Very RICHLY Blessed/Encouraged In God's Word Of Truth!*
-
brother Chris
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Concise Condensed" *"Evidence Of A Pre-Tribulational Rapture Of The Church!"*
- by _Ken Lawson_ pg. 21:
www.bereanbiblesociety.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/June-Searchlight-with-hyperlinks.pdf?Berean+Bible+Society&SEARCHLIGHT&
-------------------------------------------------------- *God Bless!*
-
OR:
*Rightly Divided* "studies" here for your Encouragement! IF you wish…
*+ 17-Part Great GRACE Departure!* "study" *(#11):*
czcams.com/channels/yxdRMbcLVBWY1HV2Fv8ALQ.htmldiscussion
The rapture I think is a giant misunderstanding of the 2nd Exodus found all over the Bible. And there is TONS of evidence for a 2nd, greater, Exodus that will be led by Jesus instead of Moses where all true believers will return to the Promised Land, not from Egypt but from the entire earth, even from the farthest shore! . In the Bible there is this repeating theme where God tells a person or a group of people to leave some place and come back to the Promised Land. Here is a list of scriptures that touch on this theme, especially the 2nd, greater Exodus. There is ONE people, ONE covenant, ONE Messiah, ONE Law for all:
Genesis 15:7, 17:8, 29:1-12, 50:24-25
Exodus 6:6-8, 19:3-8, 20:2, 29:45-46, 32:11,
Leviticus 19:36, 25:38, 26:33,
Deuteronomy 4:27, 7:6-11, 28:64, 29:28, 30:1-20
2Samuel 7:22-24,
1Kings 8:46-61, 9:1-9,
1Chronicles 16:23-24, 31-36
Nehemiah 1:5-11
Psalm 44:11, 106:47, 107:2-3, 147:2
Isaiah 11:10-16, 14:1, 40:10-11, 41:8-10, 43:5-7, 49:5- 54:1-17, 55:5, 56:8 (3 times in 1 verse!)
Jeremiah 3:14, 12:15, 16:10-21, 23:1-8, 24:4-7, 30:1-24, 31:1-40, 32:36-44, 49:32-36, 50:4-8, 17-20
Ezekiel 5:2-4, 10, 12, 6:8-10, 11:13-21, 20:23-24, 22:15, 28:25-26, 34:11-31, 36:16-38, 37:1-28, 38:1-12, 39:21-29
Hosea 1:1-11,
Amos 9:7-15
Micah 2:12-13, 4:1-8, 5:3
Zephaniah 3:9-20,
Zechariah 8:1-23, 10:1-12
Matthew 3:12, 12:30, 13:30, 24:31, 25:26, 25:31-32
Matthew 23:37
Mark 13:27
Luke 3:17
John 4:36, 6:12, 10:1-18 esp. v. 16, 11:52, 12:32, 15:6
Acts 15:7-9 (Jews and Gentiles treated the same by YHVH according to Ez37)
1Thessalonians 4:16-17
Peter 2:9-11
Revelation 17:14, 21:3
The rapture is mentioned in the Old Testament
@@RaptureReadyforJesus-qv2ql WHERE?????? I WANT BOOK NAME, CHAPTER NUMBERS AND VERSES.
@@josephr.gainey2079 it is up to you to seek. Seek and you will find! There are videos out there that explain the Bible and rapture.
God didn’t appoint us in to wrath, he has always removed his children before he destroyed anything
Well said.
People misunderstand God's wrath as God's wrath is against all unrighteousness. If we are in right standing with Christ God's wrath does not touch us... It's not about violence on the Earth. Or are you saying that God's wrath touched the martyrs and God's wrath touched the people that were slaughtered during the Inquisition? History has shown some brutal times and yes what's coming is even worse but actually most are going to be beheaded before that comes.... At least that's what scriptures say.
The way I interpret this is that Christians going through the Tribulation with the unbelievers is like the whole class gets detention for something a couple of bad students did.
Please explain to me why Jesus said we must pray to escape the things to come in Luke 21:36 and who is the people in heaven from every tongue, tribe and nation in Rev 5:8-10 as you selectively omitted this passages to prove your point.
*Luke 21* has nothing to do with the church. The time noted refers to the 2nd coming...the church is in heaven. 2ndly, those mentioned in *Rev 5:8-10* are the church.
"if you can find any at all....." It took me 45 seconds to google "Irenaeus on the rapture" and find many writing by 2nd and 3rd century church leaders who taught about a pre-tribulation rapture. So, what are you talking about and who are you trying to convince?
Jesus says
“For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the LAST DAY.”
John 6:40
“There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn them at the LAST DAY!”
John 12:48
“Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out-those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned!”
John 5:28-29
Jesus is very clear and this is what the people listening to him believed.
Everything happens at the LAST DAY including the catching up of the believers and condemnation of unbelievers.
If you do not believe this, you have have a problem with Jesus and your reading into the other Bible texts.
Revelation 20:4-5
[4]And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
[5]But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
This shows that the first resurrection of believers happens 1000 years before the second resurrection of the wicked who will take part in the second death. The text you quoted was correct but when he said last day he probably meant the last day of the great tribulation or the last day without his presence on earth. After the 1000 year millenial reign the great white throne judgement comes where the wicked that were just resurrected are condemned to the lake of fire.
"I come as a thief". "Behold every eye shall see him, even them who crucified him". There are definitely TWO phases to the coming of Christ. I believe there IS a rapture due to this.
regardless we get raptured or resurrected from our dead bodies it is all about John 3:16 and John 14:6, period. However there are solid cases proving The rapture and the second coming of Jesus are two distinct events. I want to share my video czcams.com/video/mQLucXkZAVE/video.html
Coming as a thief, just means he's coming to TAKE something, it doesn't mean it's some secret rapture.
I'll pray for you brother 🙏🙏
Could it be that the doctrine of a "Pre-tribulation rapture" will, if left unchecked be a major contributor of the falling away at the end time? Visualise the despair of those who believe they will vanish and be with the Lord, when it doesn't happen and the "great tribulation" is at the door?
The rapture is not nearly as new as you imply. Darby was late in the process. You can go to early church history and find the teaching.
Hebrew and Greek word study matters and totally disagree with this interpretation.
Taken is same word used when Jesus says he's coming back to receive us unto himself. Taken and receive are the same word. It means to take and hold dear close to one's self as a precious possession.
Harpazo is caught up. It means a sudden snatching from danger. This clearly explains the rapture. You also can use the Aramaic word which is netchatef.
Last Trump is not the seventh trumpet.
The Hebrew wedding is the perfect picture of the rapture and the entire Christian experience.
Watch and pray that you are found worthy to *escape [Harpazo]✝️🛐
With all due respect I couldn’t disagree more.
1. Why is the church mentioned 19 times in the first 3 chapters of the book of revelations then it’s not mentioned again until the end of the book? Why does John give so many instructions to the church then abruptly stop when talking about the tribulation? Why doesn’t he mentioned what the churches role is during the tribulation?
2. Jesus compared his second coming to the days of Noah. He said people would be drinking, being merry and given in marriage. But who’s gonna be doing any of that by the end of the tribulation? Three-fourths of the worlds population will be destroyed. There will be mass martyrdom and all the vegetation will be burnt up.
3. Jesus said no man knows the day or the hour of his return. Yet if the church is going through the tribulation then we should be able to discern what’s going on and deduce from there the day of his return which completely goes against what he said.
4. The preeminence of Christ return. In other words the idea that he could return at any moment. That can’t be the case if we’re going through the tribulation. Also undermines the need for Holy living until his return. The Bible doesn’t teach us to be waiting on the anti christ but rather Jesus Christ.
5. If I believed I was going to go through the tribulation I would hope it were far off and the return of Christ were nowhere near. Why wouldn’t I?
6. Any Christian who claims they aren’t worried about the tribulation because God will protect them isn’t reading the same Bible I am. The Bible says the anti christ will be given power to overcome the saints (people saved during the tribulation) to kill them
I like what you wrote. I am conflicted between the faithful & scholars on Rapture beliefs. I am also watchful about praying we dont cave in to demonic agendas in the last days...because it says "even the elect". To me, thats also referring to the best Christian leaders, teachers, evangelists, pastors, ministers, theologians, and not just political. GOD GIVE US THE WISDOM, FAITH, ENDURANCE AND COURAGE TO NOT TAKE THE MARK OF THE BEAST (in whatever form) IN JESUS MIGHTY, MIGHTY NAME. AMEN AND AMEN. 🙏🏼
Caught up in the air is people transforming into our spiritual body...some people will still be liable to die... Satan comes first...you don't want to be the first one taken. If it is that God snatches us away ... isn't that "earning it"?...God is preparing us...why would He snatch us... don't be decieved. Blessings
LOL the Church is the Saints, it's not a building, and they are referred to plenty of times in Revelation.
The first 3 chapters are specifically about messages TO the churches, so of course they are going to be mentioned more, BUT the purpose of the rest of Revelation is to reveal all the events that are going to happen, INCLUDING the persecution and martyrdom of the saints. Daniel ALSO mentions how the beast will war with the saints and will even prevail!
It only takes TWO passages to plainly spell out the order. Rev 20:4-5 states the FIRST resurrection includes those who refused to take the mark of the beast or worship his image.
1 Thes 4:16-17 flat out states the dead in Christ rise FIRST, THEN we who are alive and remain will be caught up.
THAT is the rapture verse. Sincer the rapture happens AFTER a resurrection then it's impossible for it to happen before the FIRST resurrection which includes those killed by the beast, ergo the rapture can't take place before the beast kills the saints in the tribulation.
Jesus PROMISED us tribulation, he even promised us we would be imprisoned, tortured and killed for His namesake, so the idea that the modern, carnal, lazy narcissistic western church would be spared from the very things HE promised us, is absurd.
But this is the tortured reasoning pre-tribbers have to engage in.
If YOU don't want Jesus to come, just so you can avoid tribulation and persecution, then you aren't worthy to be called His disciple. I can't think of anything more selfish than to deny Christ His inheritance, Him bringing an end to wickedness, just so YOU don't have to suffer for His namesake.
I've got news for you, Christians have been getting killed and tortured by the MILLIONS, even to this day. So the idea that Jesus wouldn't let any of His saints suffer, is so antibiblical, it's not even funny.
Thessalonians
4:17 Then they who are alive, shall be caught up together into the clouds with them who remain, to meet the Lord in the air; and so shall we be ever with the Lord.
What is the impact on my spiritual life if I believe in the rapture or not?
2 Timothy 4 v 8
Thank you for this explanation. I am a retired Baptist Pastor and I have been saying and preaching these same things for years. The Bible declares a second coming of Jesus, but it never teaches a third coming which is what would have to happen if one believes in the rapture. The term itself is never mentioned in the Bible, so it is always affirming to find someone who backs up one's beliefs and as I said in the beginning, Thank You. This heresy is being taught in my church where I am a member, but not from the pulpit, but rather in a separate class by a lay person who claims to have been studying this for ten years. Funny that she always comes out at the same place.
During the rapture Jesus does not come to earth we meet him in the air therefore He only comes twice as a minister I’m sure you know that
I want to a Baptist school and they had a play about the rapture, and it scared me to death
The term in the Bible is "caught up" translated from "rapturo". I'm convinced of the rapture because there is no mention of the church after Rev 4:1. Where is the church during the tribulation. Sir, thank you for your service to our Lord, God bless.
@@williamdoppes6054 also to snatch away in the Greek
We who are alive an remain will be caught up to meet the lord in the air
Proof right here. People will do anything for things not to be true
And then what? Christ will descend to the earth like a triumph and we will follow him down.
Exactly. I didn't even watch the vdo, just the title is a lie.
@@gumbyshrimp2606 LOL the u-turn Rapture is back.
@@robnagy1408Please explain to me why Jesus said we must pray to escape the things to come in Luke 21:36 and who is the people in heaven from every tongue, tribe and nation in Rev 5:8-10 as he selectively omitted this passages to prove his point.
I‘m about to unlearn the rapture thing I used to believe. But it doesn‘t bother me since I just want to stand on the side of truth